Sense of Soul - Spiritual Non-Conformist with Divine Confidence

Episode Date: December 25, 2020

Merry Christmas! We sure do have a gift for you, our awesome guest Kat Kim! Spiritual teacher and leadership coach. She joined us to discuss how she went from a dark place to being the light!  She has worked on sets with Dwayne “The Rock” as a contributing coach and mentor on his motivational reality TV show called Wake Up Call that aired nationally on TNT, and was featured in a John Legend’s most recent charity single called Love One Another. She recently called out over 600 ministers, spiritual leaders and practitioners for promoting this type of new-age spirituality that essentially trains us to be better consumers. (Here’s the video.)  You have got to check out her amazing blog and website here at https://www.katkim.com/ If you like this episode please Rate, Review and subscribe, to support us check out our online store, www.mysenseofsoul.com.    

Welcome to the Sense of Soul podcast. We are your hosts, Shanna and Mandy. Grab your coffee, open your mind, heart and soul. It's time to awaken. Welcome. Today with us we have Kat Kemp. She is a spiritual teacher, a leadership coach, and she serves the spiritual nonconformist, the misfit, the misunderstood. In other words, the change makers. For over 10 years, she supported the behavioral changes and spiritual transformation for her clients to create radical non-conformist change in their lives. Her approach is based on hermetic philosophy, new thought teachings, and the wisdom passed down through the ages by Buddha, Jesus Christ, and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. She's worked with Dwayne The Rock as a contributing

coach and mentor on his motivational reality TV show called Wake Up Call that was aired nationally on TNT. And she was even featured in John Legend's most recent charity single called Love One Another. We're super excited to have her with us. Welcome Kat Kim. Hi. Well hi. Morning, afternoon, where are you located? I'm in Seattle. Oh sweet morning. Where are you guys? Colorado. Oh, nice. Where? We're in Aurora. Oh, okay. I lived in Seattle for two years.

No, that's awesome. Where? We live in Dashpoint right on the water. I loved it. And then we moved to Sammamish by the Snoqualmie Falls. We loved it. Oh, okay. Nice.

Where do you live in Seattle? Right now i'm very close to dash point actually oh nice yeah in federal way yeah that's where we were daughter went to federal way high school wow didn't love the education because we're really spoiled here in colorado so then you're up to snow qualmy Falls. Yeah. Yeah. Good, good, good decision. Yeah. I went to Futterway High School. Oh, you did? Yeah. And I dropped out.

Yeah. I think that's where she was headed. I saw that you were in Colorado. Is that where you did your powerful speech? Oh, thank you. Freaking. I say bad words. I'm'm sorry so that's totally fine if a bad word happens to come i heard it on the podcast and i was like yep these are my girls

no i was like yeah i can hang with these girls i have to agree with shanna dude you are a power house oh you have you like own that stage you own your message own the presence of the audience I mean it was strong powerful message thank you that means so much they weren't expecting that they they didn't know really oh no I dropped a ball and even better I ruffled some feathers with that shit they were some of them weren't happy the honor oh yeah oh yeah that was first of all I went over by it was supposed to be 10 minutes it was like a 25 minute but you know what I was being called to do it there was like absolutely no doubt about it that everything that even when I was preparing for it and writing it it was all just flowing through me it was the most beautiful experience of like creating the talk in the first place.

And there's, you know, there's technique to writing a speech. And like all of it just came into place, the story. And I had to pay attention to my audience because my audience were ministers. They were, you know, 50s and 60s and 70s people who've been in this organization for decades, right? So I had to tailor my talk and the way I presented it. And I had to make it something that I had to cast the vision for them so that they would be on board too. So it wasn't just me talking to a smaller or like a younger crowd, but I had to cast that vision wide enough so that it invites everyone across all boards. And so it was challenging to create it, but I had to cast that vision wide enough so that it invites everyone across all boards. And so it was challenging to create it, but it happened with so much flow. And then when I was

on stage, it just like, you know, moved through me. I wasn't nervous at all. It's almost like you have an outer body experience and it just totally, it absolutely did. It was so, it came with total ease. The only nervous moment I had was right before I got on stage because I, you know, I was looking at their, their schedule and I was like, I was only scheduled there for 10 minutes for sure. And I was like, fuck, you know, like, yeah, I was like, do I change it? What do I do? And I was getting a little bit nervous about, cause you know, changing my whole talk after I've prepared it and practiced it for that long that it's not even possible and I was like nope it's not it's not going to happen so I just went on stage and I just did it and

well you could tell you were definitely in flow and it was powerful and captivating and I love you know like I was on the edge of my seat. And then when, you know, you change it up at the end, I was like, Oh, holy shit. She just totally just wow. Wow. I appreciate that so much. You want to know what else I'm curious. Did you strategically plan, you know, they always talk about different colors for like interviews. Well, there's actually a story. There's like, I didn't strategically do that for this talk, but I've had a vision of me in a red dress on stage. The lady in red. Yeah, that was my vision that I had 10, 15 years ago when I was, I was a drug addict. I was like drop high school dropout. I was depressed. And there was this moment where I was like, Oh my God, that's the woman that I want to be.

I want to walk into a room and have people notice me. I want to have substance and character. And I want to make it, I want to make a difference in people's lives. I want to make an impact. And it was this vision of me in a red dress on stage. So it's kind of like, it's part of my, you know, it's just my look. It's what I, it's, I love the color red. It's who I am. Well, it's powerful, but it also represents love. It represents you being founded and the foundation you're trying to build. And then I'll never forget when I was in college, they taught us that if you're going to a job interview, you should always pop like red lips or red heels or a red shirt because represent owning your power. All right.

Well, this maroon is about as much as red as Tiana gets. I'm so not red. Maybe I need to be. I don't know, but I'm not. Thank you so much for being with us. I mean, seriously, we're so excited. Oh my goodness. It's an honor.

I'm having so much fun're so excited. Oh my goodness. It's an honor. I'm having so much fun already. Good. Yeah. We're kind of fun. I'm not. So tell us where this journey started for you. I know that your past looks a lot like mine, you know, I'm in recovery. I made, I lived a wildlife with a lot of adventure. So when I saw the email come through and it talked about, you know, how you used to be a drug addict and I saw you on stage, I'm like, there's no way there's just no, well, Mandy just actually celebrated 10 years. Yeah. Good for you sister. Yeah. You know, my struggles really began when I was six years old. My mother began feeding me diet pills and I didn't know, like, I didn't know what was

going on at that time. I was just barely tall enough to like reach over the kitchen counter. And I would like every morning I would be like this, looking at my mom and she would be at the kitchen counter and she'd be cutting these pills. And I thought, I asked her one day, I was like, why are you doing that? And she said, these are diet pills and these are for adults. And since you're just a child, you only need half of them. So at that time, I didn't question it. I didn't think there was something wrong with it.

As children, we haven't developed that capacity to understand. I just accepted. I just accepted, I just accepted that there was something wrong with me, there was something wrong with my body, and that I needed to be fixed. And this kind of was like the beginning of a lifelong struggle of low self esteem, horrible body image, and lack of self worth. And you know, I felt ugly. I felt unwanted. I felt unworthy all by the time I was in second grade. Right. I also grew up in a really emotionally and physically abusive environment. And I started rebelling at a really young age. I started smoking and drinking at 13, doing hardcore drugs at 16 at Federal Way High School, Mandy. And I started dealing cocaine when I was

18 years old. And I was transporting it from Washington State to California on the plane. So this was like before 9-11. It was so easy. Where were you putting it? You can get real creative with that. that yeah do you really want to know it was actually putting it well right yeah that was yeah not that creative and not that bold either put them in um maxi pads oh that's you know it's handy and i went to try to be creative with something like that too so yeah yeah i used to use the end of tampons you know the plastic piece to snort it through when i worked in vegas i mean it was perfect didn't get stuck to it it was yeah you know we get creative okay i'm like so fascinated right now and had it it been another time, I would have been like, Mandy, what?

Seriously love you guys right now. This is so funny. Yeah, so I was transporting it over the plane from Washington State to California. One day I got caught. I was handcuffed. I was put behind bars in Oakland, California, of all places. So that time. Oh my God.

Right, right. Oakland was notorious at that time for high rates of homicide and violent crimes. And I was right there, right in the middle of that. You know, you would think this was my wake up call. You would think this was my wake up call, but it wasn't. I was on the fast track of self self-destruction. I didn't care what happened to me. I wasn't afraid at that time. And it wasn't a fearlessness that came from like courage though. It was a fearlessness that came from absolute lack of self-worth. Someone who, a young woman who didn't care about her future and her body and what was happening to her in that moment. It was just absolute reckless behavior.

I was, and even while I was in jail, I was trying to make drug deals. I was like, I know there's some drug dealers here. Network and make some connections. Then suddenly facing up to three years in state prison. What happened in that time is that I pled guilty. I was court mandated to go to rehab for two years. I cleaned up the drugs, but this was not the end of my problems. You know, just because you clean up one thing in your life, addiction is something that, you know, it moves on. It morphs into other things. I started becoming really, really involved in very toxic relationships with abusive men. This entire time, I hated myself. I hated my body. I walked around in big baggy clothes. And I was, I walked around like I was a mean, nasty bitch. And these beliefs, they just, you know, because I was putting it out there, it just,

they came back into my life. The experiences of my life validated my beliefs to be true about how unworthy and how ugly and how unwanted I was. And so it really wasn't until several years later that I was walking down my apartment hallway. I was involved in a very toxic, emotionally abusive relationship at that time. I was depressed, sleep most of the day, and I would lay on my couch and I wouldn't be able to lift my arms. I was like there was this something just pushing me down. It was so dark and I couldn't even move my body. It was it was wallowing in my own depression. And one day I was going trying to go somewhere. I was walking down my apartment hallway. And across the elevator door, there was this really, really big

mirror. And I just glanced up and I saw I got a glimpse of someone standing there. It was like her hair was unkempt, she was overweight, her face was really swollen. And I looked at her and I was like, I cringed because she just looked really, it wasn't even so much about what she looked like, it was this deep, dark emanating energy that came from her. And in that moment, even while I was wallowing in my own toxicity and depression, I just thought, my God, at least I'm not that bad. You know, I kind of judged her in that moment. And then I realized that there was nobody else in that hallway. It was me. Like I had, I had looked out. Yeah. I, I got a glimpse of myself in the mirror. I had become so disconnected with the woman that I wanted to be and the woman that I was being that I didn't even recognize myself when I saw myself in the mirror. That was my wake up call. Finally, after all those years, that was my wake up call. Who are you? Yeah. Yeah. Because

the woman that I wanted to be was beautiful. She was powerful. She was impact. She was transforming lives. You know, that's who I wanted to be. But at that moment, I was nothing even near that, nothing close. And this sounds a little overly dramatic, but it literally happened like this. I got into the elevator and the elevator doors closing. And, you know, across from me now is that mirror, right? And I was like, this is it. This is the moment that I change, you know, and this is the moment that I say goodbye to this woman and I step into who I really want to be.

And I began studying everything under the sun around transformation. I became so obsessed. Girls, it's not even crazy. Like I became a obsessed. Girls, it's not even crazy. Like I became a, a professionally certified image consultant. So I began studying like colors and style and women's body shapes. And how do you, how do you bring out the essence of a woman and who they are on the inside? And how do you reflect that? And, and you know, with colors and clothing, how do you bring out their and highlight their natural beauty? Like that that's I became really obsessed about that.

And I started to kind of undergo this physical transformation. And that's where this vision I had of a woman that was me, red dress, right? Mandy, that's what you're asking. There it is. Yeah. And then I underwent three years of transformative life coach training to understand what the mind goes through. And I also became a nationally certified personal trainer because I wanted to understand what the body goes through when it undergoes transformation. So I studied like nutrition and, you know, working out and all of that. And this quest for transformation on the outside, ironically, just kept on taking me deeper and deeper on the inside. And this is

where I discovered the world of spirituality and quantum physics and metaphysics. And, you know, now I'm a licensed spiritual practitioner, and I am considering the ministerial path. So I have my first license. And it's just a matter of, you know, do I do this or not? So I have one foot in. Through all of this, you know, transformation and all these experiences, I just knew that, you know, what I'm going to do is take all of these experiences, overcoming addiction and abuse and all of these things and to help women go through the same and help others go through the same. And so I've dedicated my career to doing that. And so I founded the school of divine confidence where I provide the spiritual

training and confidence coaching to rising women leaders. Yeah. Wow. There's just so much in your story. I mean, at one moment I wanted to cry. Thank you for sharing that. And I'm so grateful for that, that mirror. And I remember that feeling. I remember when I was in my addiction and I looked at myself and I, same thing. I was like, how did I even become this? What, what happened to me? Where am I? Yeah. You know, and I, my hair was brittle and I was malnourished. Self-hate was just like seeping out of my pores. No light in my eyes and my skin was dry. You know, and what's really funny is at the time,

I thought I was really holding my shit together. Oh my God, how distorted our thinking is. When we're in addiction, oh my God. Yeah. I got my admission photo that I had to wear on my neck for 30 days in rehab. I was appalled and very humbling to have to look down at that for 30 days and see the condition I looked like when I walked into that place and I have it still. Wow.

Yeah. You have it attached to Wow. Yeah. Yeah. You have it attached to your writing about addiction. So I was going to ask you, did you have to do the really deep work? I mean, did you have to go back and kind of heal that younger, that six-year-old little girl taking that pill and find forgiveness for your mother? I mean, like, what did all that process look like for you? Oh, yeah, absolutely. And that's the that's the part where I started going into spirituality, because I realized, because I was on this quest for transformation on the outside, you know, I want to look better, I want to just be just do things differently, I wanted to be a different person. And I thought

I was this, this all this stuff that you change on the outside. And, and I discovered that, no, it's not, it's not that, you know, if you want to affect change in your outer world, then you've, you know, you've got to go to the source of that, which is you had to go beyond the physical, which is the metaphysical. So you had to go into your consciousness and excavate what's going on there. And so that's, that's what prompted me to go on this spiritual journey. And, you know, to tell you the truth, it doesn't happen overnight. And I'm still I'm still excavating shit. It's like, damn, it's like, it's never ending. Yeah, yeah. And do you find that the more you're teaching others, the more you're learning to because I mean, I feel like everything that I have learned to add to my toolbox to help others has just really, you know,

been tenfold for myself as well. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I don't know if this is appropriate, and please don't feel like you have to answer this question, but what would you say today to your six-year-old self? Oh, yeah. I would tell her all the things that I have never heard as a child, or even as a teen growing up in my family, I would tell her that she is so, so, so, so beautiful. And that she's so strong, and that her body is amazing. And that she can do all the I was, I was really strong as a child. I did gymnastics. I did all, I was physically kind of advanced in terms of like, I was very athletic, but I never was able to develop that. You know, I never developed, developed any of my natural talents because I

was in, I was in a very abusive environment. And so I would nurture all of those things. I would nurture my genius. I would nurture my genius. I would nurture my intelligence. I would nurture my physical capabilities. I just, again and again and again, I would just be like a broken record again and again and again, because the truth is, is we've all received that broken record conditioning. And the conditioning that I received was that I'm ugly, I'm unworthy and I'm unwanted. So I would reverse that 100%. Oh, I'm so sorry. And I think that sometimes we don't even realize that part of our subconscious thoughts coming in on a daily. Yeah. So to recognize that to have that

awareness is life changing, obviously, for you, it was, so you start to help people and you see new speeches at churches. So do you have a religion? What is spirit? I'm so confused about the churches and the spirituality and all that. Cause you know, I've, I've been running from church for, for a while now. Actually, I heard you say that in that speech that you gave here in Denver at the Mile High Church. Yeah. You know, the politics of church and the control and the money and all these things. And so what what are the churches that you're that you go to speak at? Yeah, very good question, because I'm the same. I'm the same as you. I don't claim any organized religion. I'm not part of an organized. Well, technically new thought. So the new thought organization

first started off not as an organization. And it's, it's really, it's like all paths. They really believe that all paths lead to God. So we're very inclusive of all religions and teachings. And the real important thing with New Thought is finding the golden thread in different religions, which eventually, which essentially all boils down to the oneness, the oneness of who we are, number one. And secondly, that we all come from the same source, which is the mind of God. We all are connected from the same source and through that connection, that's why we're all one. And so my philosophy of thought really focuses on that piece and that if we're all connected from the mind of God, what does that actually mean? That means that the infinite power of spirit, the unconditional love, infinite intelligence, that exists in the mind of God.

And therefore, that actually exists within us as well. So this philosophy of thought is so much about connecting to that source, connecting to that truth and using that, using that, activating that, using our of our mind and, and, you know, creating change in the world. So it's called a new thought. It's a, it's a movement, the new thought movement, new thought movement, or also higher thoughts. And it's a spiritual movement. And there are some churches or are some, oh, there's, oh, there's hundreds of churches.

Yeah. So there's several that fall under this category that you can call them signs of mind churches, which is where I've been licensed from. Do you know Michael Beckwith? He came out in the secret black man. I know him. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Michael Beckwith he's, he's also under new thought. So the, what he, and he has a church in LA called Agape. So that's also new thought. So I went to a church like this in Seattle for the first time ever. It was, I think a center of spiritual living.

That's where, that's where I got my training. Yeah. Yeah. I, I just happened to be sitting around a fire at a barbecue and everyone was just drinking a lot. And me and this other woman, we were like, let's get out of here. She's like, do you want to go to my house? So we went next door to her house and she started talking to me about how she's a surgeon and she is leaning towards spirituality because she's seen so many people have these energies

around them while she's working on. And so we dove into all these books. We had an amazing night and she asked me to come to that church with her and I'll never forget. I walked into the shop after the service and I looked around and I was like, almost in tears because there was pictures of Jesus, pictures of Buddha. And I mean, anything you could possibly think of, I think I called you Shanna, like, holy shit, you've got to find one of these out there. This is awesome. Oh my God. Okay. So, you know, in my talk, when I talk about the only reason I kept coming back was because of the bookstore. That was it. That was it. This is trippy. This is so trippy. That book, that bookstore had such an impact on me. I just remember thinking this is the most beautiful thing I've ever experienced. And I went in and I bought the CD of the message for the day

and I couldn't believe the oneness I felt. Oh, I love it. I love it. That's it. That's, that's where it all happened for me too. Oh my God. That's so trippy. Yes. I kept coming back for the bookstore actually. And the message that was like totally not about Jesus. Like there's no mention of Jesus. There's no, they don't even use the word God. And so that was perfect for me at that time who was for someone who just didn't want anything to do with church. I didn't want anything. Right. But still wanted to deepen my spiritual practice. And, you know, I was, I read all of the love, you know, Abraham books. I did all of those things. I wanted, I wanted more.

I wanted more. Because you know what, Kat, is that I do feel that there is a need for a community, right? I think that that's the only really important thing about the church. Yeah. Is that, you know, that you do have a place to go where you could be around like-minded people. And I do believe the energy of more than one person's going to be more powerful for prayers and for support. Yeah. So I love that. And so I hope that they, I don't know. So you think that there's one here in Colorado? Well, yeah, that's the one I went to mile high. Oh, that is the one, the new, it's called Mighty Science and it's called Mile High.

It's the biggest, it's the biggest one actually. Yeah. Yeah. So you did a talk at the Mile High church. It was an amazing speech and I want you to kind of share some of it with our listeners. But what was hilarious is that you're talking about this affair that you witnessed in this, in this church. And I was like, holy shit, she called out somebody having an affair because that totally happens, right? I mean, so I'm like, she's up on the stage about ready just to sell out this dude and and and that's not what it was so can you share with our listeners about this amazing

speech that you gave and um and really what it was about yeah so just this was really funny in the front seat there was um all the leaders organization and they probably shit in their pants some of them oh my god it was kind of funny the leader of the leader like the um the spiritual leader of the entire globe right because we have centers all across the globe right yeah he's there right in front of me and I look down and he's like his eyes are closed and he's like bracing himself because you totally play this out so well I was so convinced I'm like holy shit this is terrible I know I know yeah I was I was essentially telling you know them I was like I have been studying this I've put my time into this. And I realized

that there was an affair going on. And this affair, once I realized it was happening, I was like, oh my God, does anyone else, does anyone else see this? Is it just me? And the minute that I saw it, it just, it really, it hurt a lot. It made me question everything about what I was learning about spirituality, everything that I was learning in that center. You know, it made me doubt all of my teachers. It made me question all these years that I put into spiritual studies and what I had, you know, because I was running a business on what I had been learning. I was teaching people these principles. And then to see this affair, I was like, fuck your name. Like, what am I a part of? What? Yeah. What am I a part of?

What is this? And how come nobody's talking about it? And as much as I wanted to ignore it, I could not ignore it. Right. In the talk, I say, you know, the affair that I noticed that was happening, that was, that was illegitimate, essentially, was this affair between spirituality and consumerism, and that these two things have been tied together. And that, essentially, you know, spirituality and consumerism, there's been this marriage between these two things. And I realized that this is what we've

been practicing. We've been practicing spirituality to be better consumers. And I named it consumer spirituality, which is the mainstream pop culture spirituality of today that essentially trains us to be better consumers. And inadvertently, not purposefully, right, but inadvertently perpetuates blind conformity to the dominating and oppressive structures of consumer capitalism. And prior to this speech that you gave, you had wrote an essay that like went fricking viral. Yeah. So obviously somebody is listening.

Yeah. Which is amazing. Yeah. They're sick of the old shit. They're seeing through it and we want change. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

It was really uncomfortable to bring this conversation out. I'm sure. It was, you know, it was really like, first of all, to come to this realization that the spiritual practice that I have been talking about and teaching others that it was based in consumer capitalism, and it was really only teaching us to be better consumers. It made me question everything about what I thought I wanted in life. You know, when I began my spiritual practice, I was like, oh, so I can just use my thoughts and create more money. I can get a better home. I can, you know, get a better relationship. And all of my focus was on those things, how to

get a better something for me, me, me, me, me, me, me. Right. And there was nothing for me personally, there was nothing that I had learned from my personal spiritual studies, nor from the organization that I was part of. And this is what I was calling them out on. I was like, there's nothing here. I've been studying with you guys for three years. There's nothing here about social change and how we are going to use these principles to create social change and how we are going to use these principles to create social change. Like, why do I have to go outside of this organization?

Then I began reading Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. And reading Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s books and his brilliance, you begin to see the difference between his teachings and then the teachings, for example, of Abraham Hicks. Now, I'm not knocking on Abraham Hicks. But when you think about the differences in those teachings, there's a vast, vast difference. And I really began to question all of that I started writing about it more, it was very polarizing, because I know people love Abraham Hicks, it was like, very difficult to go to that as an Asian woman, you know, who's, who's really been

conditioned to please and to not ruffle feathers. It was very difficult to go through that personally. Yeah. Very courageous. There was so much about your article. I totally understand why it went viral. It's an easy read. You can wrap your mind around it, but there's so much substance to it. There was, you know, the part about consumer spirituality becomes an ego soothing drug rather than an ego dissolving journey. I loved that, especially with your past, because me and you truly know what an ego soothing drug is. That was powerful. And then I also loved how you talked about how it neglects humanity, that it talks about

emotions like pain and rage and conflict and grief are all labeled as like bad. And that's what I thought my whole life. I carried that with me until recently, thinking that those feelings were made me bad and a bad person. We were gifted with those emotions for a reason. It took me a long time to wrap my head around that. I wish I would have met you about 20 years ago so you could have told me. Well, you guys would have been out in Vegas together snorting through a tampon straw.

We would have. 20 years ago. I know. Very true. Oh, gosh. I think that with the isolation that COVID has placed on our world, people are even striving more to be part of a community because as Shanna and I had learned, our brains need oxytocin to be happy. And so that oxytocin, the best way you get it is through connection with others. And that's why I believe that God put us on earth together is to be there for one another.

This is the thing. This is why I talk about consumer spirituality, because I think people have this notion that spirituality is about awakening and bliss, and it's going to feel so great. And it's going to be, you're going to be positive. And of course, there are elements of that, of course, but because we are humans living in a 3d or 4d world, you know, we live in the world of duality and there's black and then there's white and then there's hot and then there's cold and then there's enlightenment and then there's suffering, you know, and all of these are, are part of this journey. It's, it's, it's what makes us whole. And what I began to see in the spiritual

community is this constant focus on positivity. And that if you're not being positive that you're doing spirituality wrong, and, you know, so much bypassing. And I just thought this isn't this is not this is not it. This is not it. Because our pain and suffering is what makes us who we are. It makes us grow. It's a fertilizer for so much growth. And so when I wrote about consumer spirituality, I identified four things. And Mandy, you kind of mentioned a couple of them. But one, consumer spirituality, the mainstream pop culture spirituality of today, it does four things. One, it appropriates and it commodifies ancient spiritual teachings. So it cherry picks, you know, the easy, the positive

aspects of spiritual traditions, and it packages them so they're easily palatable for the Western world, right? Two, it promotes self-interest and personal development over all else. So spirituality is not used as a way to alleviate collective suffering, but to become more personally comfortable, efficient, wealthy, right? That's such a big topic for people. We want more abundance, right? More personally powerful, right? It's all about the self. It has nothing to do with the collective. And thirdly, consumer spirituality teaches us to be relentlessly positive and to seek pleasant emotional experiences at all costs. This is what you were talking about earlier, Mandy, about how uncomfortable emotions such as grief, rage, pain, suffering, they're all cast as the opposite of spiritual enlightenment and almost cast as being like low vibe, right? And then fourth, consumer spirituality encourages overconsumption and materialism, you know, the law of abundance and the law of infinite supply, when that's married to consumerism, right, the belief that we can do whatever we want,

when that's married to consumerism, it just ends up promoting the constant overconsumption. It just makes us like hungry for more and more and more and more and more. It's completely devoid of the actual spiritual truth that we are fully in this moment right here, right now, as God is our source, we are 100% fully supplied in this moment. And that's where we need to return because if we can't return to that, then we're constantly just creating more experience of scarcity and lack again and again and again. And I wonder, is it even returning to?

Because I mean, did we even ever have it? I feel like they cherry picked things. True. And I'd say that as well goes for history. We've learned this wonderful history of Thanksgiving. I mean, come on let's not celebrate the fact that we took all the freaking land for him and then gave him a fucking turkey are you kidding me that didn't happen you know and it's the same thing in religions they

want you just to go to a priest and that's good enough just ask for forgiveness you don't have to do the work yeah it was like oh let's just make everything real nice yeah so then everything would just be real nice but we're fucking human beings. It's impossible. Well, and I'll tell you, my son, he loves researching stuff too. He's 21. And he recently was talking to me about how at the beginning, the Romans were really open-minded and used a lot of even psychedelics and things in their rituals. And then once they

realized that people could get a spiritual connection and could find spirituality outside of the church, they started like going freaking out because they were like, wow, these people, yes, they need to need us because we need them to rise in power. Well, that's precisely what happened. And they ended up taking away bits and pieces of the Bible. I've never been like a Bible reader myself until recently, because now I know how to look at it from a metaphysical point of view. What I learned is that they took out pieces of the Bible. They took out all the, you know, conveniently, they removed all the pieces that really teach us our divine, our connection to divinity and our source of power. That is God that every person has

like all things has become a form of control. Now, I love that you were brave enough. I love that you were brave enough to not only write this, this beautiful article, but to stand up. Thank you. Were you like shitting your pants the night before? The whole experience was really, really beautiful. Actually, it was just right before I got on stage. There was that moment where I was like, oh my God, they're actually not prepared for this. And I was in there for a 10 minute slot.

And my talk, I know it was like 25 minutes, you know, that was my only moment, but then it went away. I got on stage and, you know, I just, I spoke. I want to play a clip too. I actually went and took a clip out that I loved so much. See if I could play it. That voice was like, it wouldn't go away. It was like buzzing in my ear. I was like, get out, get out! But it wouldn't.

And it was just driving me crazy. So finally I had to talk to somebody. So I went to Reverend John Hollis in Seattle. I said, Reverend John, what is happening? I think I've been called and I thought he was going to laugh in my face and tell me to go home but instead he said you seem afraid what are you afraid of? and I said Reverend John I'm afraid that

I'll have to change who I am and then he said something to me that I will never forget. He said, Kat, the path to God doesn't mean changing who you are. It means being more of who you are. And that's when I knew. That and when the minister cussed at the pulpit,

that is when I knew that I had found my religion. That was great. Yes, that was my favorite part. By the way, Mandy, this was at Centers for Spiritual Living Seattle. I remember exactly where I was talking to him. And I know you walked past that hallway because that's just the opening of the center. But yeah, I just remember that so clearly.

He said, Kat, the path to God isn't about changing who you are. It's about being more of who you are. And I just thought, oh my God, I had never heard about it that way. For so many people. And for myself, this particularly God is in religion or anything about, you know, Jesus or God was all about, you have to change yourself. You need to be a better person. You need to conform. You need to do this, all that. And I was like, wait, what? I can be more of who I am. I can be more. I can. And for me, that meant I can be more of just me. I can be more powerful. I can be more. I can. And for me, that meant I can be more of just me. I can be

more powerful. I can be more, I can cuss more. I can wear more red dresses. I can be sexy. I can be all the things that I know that I'm being called to be. And that for me is being, having a relationship with God. I was like, oh, it just blew my mind. You know, and now knowing your story and knowing about that six year old little girl, who thought she had to change. Yes. And so that was such an impactful statement for him to have made to you. Very, very impactful. And it was truly a moment where I was like, this is my spiritual religion, whatever you want to call it. I was like, this is it. I'm done with this. I'm done with this. And this is something I can get behind. And this is something I can teach others and bring others

on board too. Right. And he cusses. Yeah. You want to know what it's so funny. Cause I did a video after my second near death experience. I was like, I told people, I'm like, guess what? My first death I was sinning. I was sinning. Like you wouldn't believe. And I didn't go to hell. And guess what? I know now that God loves me unconditionally. I can say fuck.

And he's still loving me. Exactly. Exactly. My God cusses. I don't know about you, but like I hear it. I hear it cussing all the time. It's like motherfucking shit. Like all the time. I was like, motherfucking shit. Like all the time.

It's so true. Years ago, Shanna said, Mandy, I'm so sad that our world doesn't understand what unconditional love actually means. I said, what do you mean? She goes, it means loving with no conditions. You know, we throw that word out all the time, but we've forgotten the meaning behind it. And God loves us with no conditions. Exactly. We have been taught to live in this place of fear and to change. I'm a nonconformist down to the core.

And so whenever I get this feeling like I have to conform or change myself to be something or something I or be put in a box I really uh just resist that so that's why I have I have become so interested in this philosophy of thought and to really in the future I think I'm being called to preserve the teachings of it and to share it outside of the consumer spirituality box, you know, that's kind of what's what I feel like is coming up for me next. It's so needed. People are awakening right now. Yeah, the timing is perfect. People are saying no more. It does take people like you who are brave enough to stand up and not only just say it, but you owned it. I am curious with Shanna really being so into ancestral healing, the way you were raised by your mother, was that something in your lineage? Was that something that was taught to her? Is

that part of your culture? Oh my God. I see. That's just a, I went through a journey of ancestral healing just recently last couple years it's me too did you yeah it's like deepest healing I've ever gone through ever ever and I was thinking of this as you were asking me earlier like I think your question was you know did you have to go inwards and I think I answered it yeah I have to go inwards and it's never ending. And I was just thinking of my most recent healing around ancestral. So call myself like cat 3.0 now, because it's I've been like, there's been three versions of cat and you've heard some of my transformations. But my most recent major transformation happened just in the last couple years. Two years ago, I purchased a one-way ticket to Seoul, Korea, because at that time I was mired in this really, really toxic relationship with my family. My father had a gambling addiction. He was 80 some years old and he could barely walk and barely eat, but he was going to the casino

and he was throwing thousands of dollars away. It was tearing our family apart, tearing our family apart. My mom had high anxiety. She was stressed. She was sick because of the gambling and the money issues. We didn't know what was going on with my family, with the house, the finances, nothing. The reason I'm in Federal Way, Mandy, is because I came back home to help my parents with this. I realized that it was not helping. It became a codependent relationship where I was trying to fix something on the outside, but the issue from the inside kept on coming to the surface. I was so sick and tired of it. I was so, my hair was falling out. It was a very, very stressful time. My niece was also in prison for the same crime, pretty much as

mine. It was really bizarre this time. And I was like, prison for the same crime pretty much as mine. It was really bizarre this time. And I was like, I can't handle this anymore. I'm fucking out. And I've always wanted to return to Korea because that's where I was born. And I've always wanted to connect with my culture and my heritage. So I purchased a one-way ticket and I was like, I'm leaving. And it was like this big deal because I started doing this countdown on social media and people were following me along on this journey. And it was like day 12, day 11, day 10, you know, all of these things on day eight, eight days before my departure, I found my father dead in his bed. I walked into his room and I thought he was sleeping. I called out his name and he didn't answer. And in that moment, I knew like he had passed away.

And actually it was this most peaceful parting of ways. There was no hospital, no pills, no pain, no suffering. As he passed, it was like his way of saying, okay, I'm done. I'm leaving you guys. I'm blessing you guys. It's now time for you guys to heal and clean up, you know, all this mess. As soon as he passed away, my brother came home, my cousin came home, there was five of us, we went through thousands of documents, because he good thing he didn't throw anything away. But he kept everything in his

office. But he never shared any of that with us. So we went through thousands and thousands of thousands of documents, trying to get a picture of what was happening with the finances, the house and everything. Long story short, he had a bankruptcy. He had forged his signature on three different loans, forged my mother's signature. So my mother now is responsible for these, we're talking $250,000, you know, and it was just so much. I was like, what the hell is going on? You know, there's something going on here. That's not about me. And so I reached out to a family constellation therapist and we did some, I was instructed to find out as much as I could about my father. And I was like,

well, my father's dead. Did you not hear me say that? And secondly, when my father and I was like well my father's dead did you not hear me say that and secondly when my father was alive he he never spoke about his past he was like a concrete wall and I knew nothing about anything about his past I didn't even realize until after his death that I had paternal grandparents it never it never, it never crossed my mind. Because it was just my dad and my dad is a brick wall. And there's no, you don't question energetically. If you think about it, there was no question. There's no going past this wall. Wow. So to try to find information about him and figure out why he started gambling and what causes addiction.

It was really hard. But here's what I found out. I had another brother, number one, who died at birth. And he was suffocated on accident, actually, by his caregivers. He died. And I thought, well, okay, so that would make someone, you know, shut down for sure. I did some further digging. And I found out that my father was actually involved in politics in Korea and he was so involved at one time that he was working with presidential candidate that was running against the dictator in Korea and Korea has had political turmoil for many many years because it was first occupied by Japan from 1910 to 1945. And then after that, it went into civil war. So it's been, you know, political turmoil for a long, long time. And so

my father was part of the fight for democracy against that dictator. And you never knew. I never knew this. I never knew this. And I found out that my father was taken into a basement bunker. He was tortured. And, you know, basically told, if you ever get in, if you go back to politics, we're going to kill you. And I was like, oh my God. And I mean, I was like- You find this out like stories

that you're finding on the ancestry or something? No, no. I found out from my oldest brother who had been estranged from my father. Oh my God. because of money issues so just the whole point of this is that my family has money issues around shame right we've all been broken apart because of money so i was trying to get to the and there's been addiction and all like me my father my brother's so i was trying to get to the underlying reason it just all fell into place and it all made sense that oh my god my dad like the trauma of that moment is what you know

is what he has carried and what is what has been passed down so never talked about it never never and your mom either your mom never shared either so sworn secre either. So sworn secrecy. I don't think she knows. I don't think she knows to that extent because we have a very broken family. Like my brothers don't talk to my mother, none of that. You know, the reason I even reached out was because at that time I was feeling like I was suffocating. Like I was like, oh my God, I need to like get out of here. I can't breathe. I feel like I'm going to like, you know, like there's something going on.

And then, so the trippy part is that I realized that my father and I had this, you know, you can call it an intuitive hit or you can call it, you can call it whatever. But I know that my father was telling me, showing me what happened. I got this image of him having something wrapped around his neck and that he was around his head and that he was suffocating. And that was the moment. That was the moment where he was like, I'm going to do whatever it takes to survive. Because he couldn't breathe, you know, he

couldn't do suffocating. And so that trauma has been passed down. But check this out. I had this feeling of suffocating and dying. Yeah. Who else in my family actually suffocated and died? My brother. I don't even know his name. I don't know anything about him, but he's my brother. He suffocated and died. My dad was suffocating and he almost died. And this, this feeling of, I just need to survive. I just need to survive and I'll do whatever it takes to just survive. That has been passed down even through me for so many years. I was like, I just didn't like, I mean, you heard a bit of my story around drugs and alcohol constantly being put in

situations where I'm like, I'm fucking like doing whatever I can to survive. Like I got to survive, you know? And so this feeling of anxiety has, you know, lived within me, my family, my father and his gambling addiction around money. You know, I just, I just have enough to barely survive. It's like this, this, that's the, that was the trauma that's been passed down. And, and on, and, you know, it's, you know, family trauma is so multifaceted too. So it's those aspects that were passed down to me. And ironically, also the, the fear of showing up and speaking my truth.

Are you kidding me? Like, for years, I have been just, like, I feel it is very, you know, this is the thing about family trauma, ancestral trauma, is that you have this fear or this, that's not rooted in logic. And so every time I did a talk, every time I did something, I always felt like someone would come in and stab me in my stomach. It's very, like, it's not even logical. but it's very, very vulnerable feeling that I have. And I realized that that's also connected to my father's trauma. They almost took his life. They

said, if you ever get back into politics, if you ever speak your truth again, essentially, we will come and kill you. So he shut that off completely. Never about it ever ever ever and so these last couple years I've been undergoing a massive healing around that particular issue and ironically so I didn't go to Korea right I was like you know what this is where I'm going to start my the school of divine confidence I have everything it takes right now to start the school of divine confidence I was given this vision you know 10-15 years ago and I realized I have everything due to start that. And then I started getting invited to doing more talks. And then I got invited to do this talk at a mile high. That was an example of me healing from that trauma. Yes, yes, that ancestral. Oh, it's so, so powerful.

You know, Shanna, what do you always say? No more. It stops with me. Yes. Yeah. And talk about being able to clear like that throat chakra, being able to speak your truth. There's so much to be said about that. I'm glad that you went through that part of your journey. Here's the next leg of my journey is that i'm still gonna go back to korea it's gonna happen in 2021 because now i have this relationship with my father it's just oh my god it's like the minute he died and passed away we started having a relationship all those years that he kept it down and kept it quiet now he wants to share his story

and he's sharing it through me he gives me me information. He leads me here and there. And so now I want to go back to Korea. I'm going to go there and I have a bigger purpose is to understand. I want to know what he was fighting for. I want to know so much about him because he's not here to tell me now. I'm going to go there and I know he's sharing with me as I'm doing this so I'm gonna go back next year 2021 you know explore the history of Korea I've been already like deep diving into it and there's just so much there you are like Shanna like you have been chosen to stop that pattern it's so beautiful well then this is what I say to people who feel like they're constantly being stuck and they can't seem to move forward.

And you know, it's, it's people like us, for example, my brothers don't care, even if they know the story and they're like, wow, that's cool. They're not being called to do the healing. Right. And so I realized that the people who are being called into the people who are really grappling with this and struggling with it and feeling the pain, that pain is so purposeful. It's there because we are the ones, we are the ones that have been chosen. Like you said, to do the healing. And that comes with so much honor, you know, it's such a big role. I cry every time I think about it. I think they chose me. It brings you so much compassion too. I mean, I literally thought my grandfather was a piece of shit. I thought he was a deadbeat dad. And then I went in and dug into his story and his life. It all made so much sense. That's the healing. Oh, that's exactly what I experienced as well

with my father. I was so angry with him. I was so mad at him. But now to know who he was and what he is like now, I just want to honor everything about him. In life, he was such an asshole. He was such a pain in the ass. But in death, he's been so, so sweet. And I feel his unconditional love. And I feel him with me. I feel very powerful because I know he's guiding me in every step of the way.

Pat, you're freaking amazing. Oh my God. You turned your pain into purpose. And that's what Sense of Soul is all about. Every single guest has to break that shit down. And now it's time for break that shit down. You have the mic, my friend. Today, we talked about so many stories around pain and

suffering and all of that. And I just solely 100% believe that we're all being called into divine confidence. And divine confidence for me means having an unshakable faith in knowing who you are and what you're here to do, regardless, regardless of what's going on in the world outside of you, regardless of a global pandemic, regardless of an election, regardless of what, how much money is in your bank account, you know, regardless of what people are saying about you or not, that's all the outside stuff. And that outside stuff is really just a shadow. It's just a shadow effect of who we have been thinking and how we've been feeling on the

inside in the past. And I just believe that divine confidence is really, really, really about connection to spirit. And when you have that connection to spirit or God that, oh, like, it's just so juicy and so powerful. And we all have that power within us. Awesome. And you know what, I want to give a shout out to that Reverend, what was his name? Reverend John Hollis. Awesome. And you know what? I want to give a shout out to that Reverend. What was his name? Reverend John Hollis. Shout out to you for wise words. What a beautiful message he gave you. Yeah. Kat, where can our listeners find you? What are you up to right now? I've got the School of Divine Confidence that will be opening its doors again in January. This is where I provide spiritual training and confidence coaching to rising women leaders,

spiritual seekers and change makers who just really know in their bones that they're being called to do something important, but they might find themselves holding back or playing small. So I help them overcome the blocks, fears and shame, like so many of the things that I've overcome. So that's starting in January, but you can find me in the Confident Leadership community

on Facebook. Come see me, come ask questions, be part of the community. And here's something really fun that I'm going to start. I'm going to start a weekly unsermon. Unsermon? Unsermon. Yeah. It's a sermon, but it's not. It's an answer. It's like, you know, it's my spiritual teaching that's going to move through me. But it's sort of a sermon, but it's actually not but it is but it's not. I'll show up for that one. Oh, my gosh, I love it. Well, thank you for sharing your pain and your purpose. I woke up this morning really emotional and just kind of having a hard morning. So thank you because I just feel great after speaking with you. Thank you. Thank you.

Same here, actually, Mandy. Me too. Right? I feel this kind of dread around working in my home by myself. I just, I need this human connection. So getting on this call with you guys has been so, so, so good for me. This is what we're here for each other for. Can you tell our listeners the name of your social medias and your website? Yes. My website is Katkim, K-A-T-K-I-M.com. Social is Katkim Official on Facebook and Instagram. Okay. And where can they find this amazing article do you have it it's on my website we'll put it in the notes we'll put the the video because you can't miss that and we'll put your article good yeah we could just have you on all day

seriously love you i love it i'm so glad to meet you guys thanks for being with us today we hope you will come back next week if you like what you hear don't forget to rate like and subscribe thank you we rise to lift you up thanks for listening am i upside down no you're sideways oh i'm, we're all different directions. This is the funniest thing. What the hell? There you go. There you go. That's good.

Okay. Hey, you just described my life. My life is always sideways like that. You're all good. Well, guess what? Y'all are all, we're all sideways to me. So on my end, we're all straight. How about you, Kat? Yeah.

Wait, wait, wait. Now we're good. Okay.