Sense of Soul - Tantra

Episode Date: February 16, 2024

Today on Sense of Soul we have Dr. Elsbeth Meuth and Freddy Zental Weaver. They have assisted more than ten thousand couples and singles in rekindling and expanding their love and relationships over the past two decade. They are the founders and directors of the TantraNova Institute in Chicago, are featured on Showtime’s documentary series “Sexual Healing” and the Emmy award-winning NBC show “Starting Over.” They have shared their intimacy secrets at a global YPO (Young Presidents Organization) conference in the city of love, Paris, and got nominated as Changemaker at the White House sponsored 2016 United State of Women Summit in Washington, D.C. This engaging couple are sought-after speakers off and online at universities, spiritual centers, conferences and summits. The efficacy of Elsbeth Meuth’s and Freddy Zental Weaver’s work is captured in the 2009 doctor of psychology research thesis “The Impact of Tantra on Couples’ Intimacy and Sexual Experience” by Meredith E. McMahon of The American School of Professional Psychology of Argosy University, Chicago. Elsbeth and Freddy Zental are beloveds—life and business partners—residing in Chicago. **FREE GIFT for the audience  Introduction to Sexual Meditation - Video Class Learn distinctions and practices of Sexual Meditation to access and channel your creative spark https://tantranova.lpages.co/introduction-to-sexual-meditation/ Visit their website to find out about TantraNova workshops and programs https://www.tantranova.com/ Check out our Cosmic Leap day Experience ONLY $29.00, and as a Patreon Member you get 25% off, https://www.patreon.com/senseofsoul or register here:  Quantum Leap Experience Check out Sense of Soul’s affiliated: https://www.mysenseofsoul.com/sense-of-soul-affiliates-page

Hello, my soul-seeking friends. It's Shanna. Thank you so much for listening to Sense of Soul Podcast. Enlightening conversations with like-minded souls from around the world. Sharing their journey of finding their light within, turning pain into purpose, and awakening to their true sense of soul. If you like what you hear, show me some love and rate, like, and subscribe. And consider becoming a Sense of Soul Patreon member, where you will get ad-free episodes,

monthly circles, and much more. Now go grab your coffee, open your mind, heart, and soul. It's time to awaken. Hey listeners, did you know that 2024 is a leap year? And for this cosmic event, Jennifer Mitchell is joining us in Sense of Soul's Sacred Circle to facilitate a quantum leap experience. So coming up February 29th, it's only $29. And as a member of Sense of Soul's Patreon, you can get 25% off of that.

Join us and embrace the cosmic influence of this transformational event to propel you into the future you desire. You do not want to miss this. You can find the link in the show notes or you could visit www.senseofsoulpodcast.com. Today on Sense of Soul, we have Dr. Elspeth Moit and Freddie Zentel Weaver. They have assisted more than 10,000 couples and singles in rekindling and expanding their love and relationships over the past two decades. They're the founders and directors of the Tantra Nova Institute in Chicago and are featured on Showtime's documentary series, Sexual Healing, and the Emmy Award Love, Paris, and got nominated as Changemaker at the

White House Sponsored in 2016 Women's Summit in Washington, D.C. They're joining us to tell us the secrets of lasting intimacy and how it was that they came together to create Tantra Nova. Hi, Shana. Hi, Shana. Hi, how are you? Excellent. Excellent. How are you? I'm great.

Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, too. Now, what part of the world are you in, Shana? I'm in Colorado. Colorado. Beautiful. Nice. Where are you guys at?

We're in Chicago, Illinois. Oh, okay. I'm excited. I need to be schooled. So I'm going to be your student today and you will be my teachers. All right. We're going to be inspiring. That's good. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to talk about this and to hear about your amazing relationship and what you've been creating together.

So my name is Zintal Waver and this is my partner, Dr. Elkwood Moyt, and we're beloved business partners and founders of Tantra Nova Institute here in Chicago for the last 22 years. We've been teaching these practices to couples and singles all over the world, teaching them how to work with life force or sexual energy to more deeply connect with and get out of our own way to bring in what we most deeply desire. And we're going to have fun unpacking that with you today. So I was first introduced to these practices that we teach for a large part of our curriculum anyway, when I was 13 years old, living in Hawaii, going through my puberty, spending

a lot of time in the shower as as a lot of guys do at bedtime. My father was a practicing psychiatrist and very evolved and gave me a book to read on how to integrate meditation and sex practices. Wow. Very lucky to have manifested him as my father. Well, my girlfriend loved it. I loved it. And even more than that, I had this idea, this dream, this hope, this deep desire to go on to college on athletic scholarship. And even more than that, I had this idea, this dream, this hope, this deep desire to go on to college on athletic scholarship. And the practices assisted me in getting out of the belief that I could not do it to easily with grace, ease, and flow do it. I went on to college on athletic scholarship. After college, I kept doing these practices and reading books and applying these principles in my personal relationships. I was in the software business for many years in San Francisco. And what I knew about my own inspiration was something was missing. It had become just a job and I was in San

Francisco, but something was missing. So there was a job opportunity in Chicago and I'd gone to college with some guys from Chicago and the opportunity looked good and they liked me. So they moved me out here. That was 22 years ago. And I really came here to meet Elsbeth. Yeah, I didn't know it at the time, but 22, six months to the day we met, we transcended what I call the romantic drama and created this work. And this is what we've been doing the last 22 years. And it's the greatest honor that I could have ever imagined having and doing working with Elspeth and really being in my authentic, true expression of who I am. I mean, I'm a musician, I'm a comedian, I'm a teacher. He's a great jazz singer.

You know, and all the things I've loved to do and evolved to do, and I can do them as part of my enthusiastic work and not be worried about the money thing so much because I was in corporate America and I would do those things as a side thing, but not liking my main work. So this work I love and it integrates all of it. So I didn't have a dad who gave me a book on sex consciousness. Okay. I was a teenager. I would have loved it, you know, but that was not in my family. I don't know about you, Shana, but not in my family. No. So as you can tell from my accent, I didn't grow up in the United States. I was born and raised in Germany and came in my late 20s to the United States to do postgraduate work in music.

And then a few years later, got my doctorate in education, and then I moved into management consulting. So that all was in the 90s, and I had gotten really good at consulting, yet was miserable at relationship. I had this pattern of attracting unavailable men. And while that was often exciting, you know, most of the time I was alone. And there came a point when I felt very despaired. Like, you know, seeing the trajectory, if I was not going to change that pattern of attracting unavailability, that I would end up without lasting intimacy in my life before I was going to leave this planet. And I did not want to settle for that. So that was the time when I looked for something. And that was the time when I deeply

delved into the practice of Tantra, not just reading a book here and there, but really immersing myself in the discipline, in the work. And through the Tantric meditations and healing rituals, what opened up for me was to connect with what I didn't know was that I had held distrust towards men. Now, if you had known me, Shana, 25 years ago, you wouldn't have called me a distrusting bitch. I was very charming. I was inviting. I reeled the guys in.

But underneath, not visible to the conscious mind, there was something that was running the show, so to speak. And that's what the tantric practice allowed me to tap into that, given that it's a practice where we connect with ourselves in a holistic, in a whole way, mind, heart, and body. And so we get to discover also experiences that we may have forgotten or that may still trail us from earlier times in the world, children or adolescents. And so in the healing ritual, that is what came up, an experience from when I was 18 years old, first love, first boyfriend. We had spent a couple of very blissful years together. And then he asked me to have intercourse.

And I said, yes, although I was not ready. It was freakingly painful. I had to go to the gynecologist. The bill from the gynecologist went to my dad. My dad opened it. I mean, it went to my house. My dad opened it. All hell broke loose. He called me a whore. And then boyfriend left the relationship a few weeks later. And there I was all by myself, no one to turn to. And there was this moment when I made this nanosecond decision. What we often do in moments when we don't know what to do, when we feel despaired, like a coping decision,

which for me was something like, else would see men are not there for you when you need them. And it was like that at that time. It trailed me into my young adulthood and then into my adulthood, but it's underneath. I did some work through therapy on it, on this whole story, which is helpful, but no, I have to say it was at the time was very helpful. And so I thought it was all complete. But little did I know that certain things are remembered on the cellular level, which is not accessible to the conscious mind. and can clear out what keeps us, you know, what keeps us or holds us back from what we so much want. And no wonder that I attracted unavailability given that decision.

Because then when this trails us, our decision, and then in the subconscious, we recreate the same situation over and over again. Like, see, they are not there for me, these men, you know, in my adulthood. It was further proof of the young Elspeth, you know. So, I could clear all of that out, and in place of it, what opened up was deeper trust in myself, because often goes first like else but why didn't you speak up why didn't you say no when you were asked to have intercourse but that was not available to me that's all i had to reconnect with myself that i can you know count on myself and then deeper trust in men in general. And then Freddie came into my life six months later. Yes. And now also I believe that if I hadn't done that clearing work around the

inability, I would not have recognized him as a partner, a potential partner. I would have seen him. He's tall, he's handsome, all of it. But as a potential partner, because it would not have been that attraction, because I was attracted to unavailability because there was something in me that was not available. Unfortunately, with that clearing work, so I could, you know, see him and recognize him. And here we are, 22 years later. And I often say, Shana, I often say to people who are single, you know, when I have a partner, I'd love to do a workshop with you, like here at Tantra Nova, said, no, you put the cart before

the horse. Why don't you use the work to prepare yourself to bring the beloved in? So you want to ready yourself. And that is what I did. And I highly recommend that if someone who is single and truly wants to bring a beloved into their life to do their inner work so they are ready to attract that what and who they want. You know, I bet a lot of people can relate to that story. I know I can. And not too long ago, I was teaching a Reiki class. We were focusing on our chakras and my lower back was hurting. So I kept giving Reiki into the space. I go to bed that night and my partner wakes me up at like five, six o'clock in the morning when I have sex. And I'm like, I didn't say anything, but I'm mad about it.

I'm rejecting it. My body is stiff as a board. Like I don't want any pleasure at all. Just do what you got to do. And I remember probably this has happened many times, you know, that I felt this way, but this particular night was different or morning. So we're done or he's done. And all of a sudden my eyes just like opened wide. I just had a memory of when I was 11 years old that I thought this did not bother me, but evidently it does. I remember when I was at my cousin's house and one of his friends had come in the room when I was sleeping. And I remember being stiff as a board and pretending I was asleep. Even though I hadn't remembered this since forever, my body remembered it.

And here I was, stiff as a board, trying not to feel anything and not wanting to participate and not really knowing why. And so I said, I'm going to do some work on this. I sat with my body, told myself I was safe. And later on, I said, okay, well, we have to test the system. You got to wake me up to try to do this. And it took him days before he would, because he was afraid to. But when he did, the only thing I thought about was him. Wow, that's beautiful that you could clear that. That you could step through it and not blame him for not seeing what you were going through, but be able to articulate to him what you were feeling on your side.

He could totally respect and get that. And then you did your work. That's really, really high level. That's what this life is about, is moving through the unconscious stuff that we appropriated at early ages, you know, and it starts in the womb, you know, because in the womb, you know, it's womb service, everything we're floating and it's wonderful. You know, our brains are developed. It's like, we don't even think about food and it's just, you know, womb service. Then all of a sudden we're

born, whoosh, you know, we're whacked on the bottom. Some guys are getting their wee-wees cut and we're thinking, you know, send us back. And then life goes on and all these ups and downs and violations happen and good things and bad things. And then we get to a point in our life where we see ourselves and we see that we want to shift something. And yet, like Elspeth's story and your story, Shanna, there is a neurosynaptic memory of an old story that was appropriated that served us then but doesn't now. And we might do a lot of actionable insight process work to understand that in our left brain and analytically get it. And yet it still lives on the neural level, on the subconscious level. 70% of our stuff is 90%

of our stuff going on back there. So in the tantric practices and all the approaches to transformation that there are, what's unique about tantra or working consciously with our sexual energy is that altered state that we're in when we're in our sexual. Whether we're doing consciousness work or not, we're more open, loving, vulnerable, receptive. Chemically, we're changed, more endorphins, serotonin, oxytocin, the field of hormones. So with the distinctions that we're teaching in our workshops in terms of breath awareness,

energetic awareness, and intention, like I want to create blah, blah, blah, we in this unmasked, altered, intimate state in the sexual, and there's a construct in the ritual with yourself or and with a partner, we are more receptive and vulnerable to what we don't see in the background. So we can start to tune into a frequency of what does and what doesn't serve us. And then that starts to flow into our regular life. The listening is more available to us. It's not hidden. Lights are brighter.

Our intentions are clearer, felt more deeply. And that's kind of the, people go, I don't know what sex has to do with me creating, you know, a happy job, you know, work or something. And it sounds a little woo-woo-weaver, you know, and I'm like, well, you know, it's really woo-woo where single-celled amoebas, multi-celled organisms, the universe, it goes on for Adam and Adam, and that's our lineage. We're just beginning to tap into something that we're a part of. So what about if we look a little bit more to distinguish certain things? Because often people say, oh, tantric sex, as if it was all about sex. We distinguish

between sex and sexual energy. Sexual energy is life force energy. Without it, none of us would be sitting here and talking and listening. So this is a primal energy that moves through us at all times. It's given to us at the moment of conception and then stays with us until the moment we leave this planet. And so in the tantric practice, we learn to become more aware of that energy, both in subtle states and aroused states. I can feel great joy and pleasure and learn to channel that wonderful life or sexual energy, you know, without having sex. And I can have sex without much intimate experience. So there's a level of sex where we, you know, more the lusty level, which is totally fine. However, it's just the beginning of it. It's the first level. So how would it be if we could connect consciously our sexual energy, our sexual self with our love self, probably our emotional self,

our mental self, our spiritual self, and then come into coherence between the spiritual and the sexual, between the heart and the sexual. So we use that wonderful life force energy to fuel ourselves, to fuel our physical body, our physical health, to embellish our love self, our love energy, our heart, to spur on really our mental self that is so great for what we intend and what we want to bring forth in the world so we can use that life or sexual energy to fuel what we want to create in the world. And then, of course, the connection with our highest self, the spiritual self, and that often is considered like not belonging together, the spiritual and the sexual. You know, in the world religions, it's often really considered

one has nothing to do with the other and shouldn't be confused. What we are saying and also what in these ancient practices was brought forth is that actually it's two sides of the same coin. So we are both earthly beings and then we are heavenly beings all at once in this physical manifestation. And so through the Chandrik practice, we can reconnect, reintegrate our earthly sexual physical being with our heavenly spiritual being so that the spiritual can inform the sexual and the sexual can inform the spiritual. That's beautiful. You speak like it's like a poem coming out of your mouth. It's beautiful. Yeah, when I speak, I really feel it. Yeah. I was thinking about this earlier before we got on. There is this connection to

that maiden self, right? When you were in your sexual energy. And I'll be honest, I've been living most of my life in my mother. And then now I'm moving into the crone and really loving to connect with that wisdom. But what I found was that we're all of those things though, just like the cycles of the moon, we're still whole. But I have been a mother for so long, so I haven't felt that sexual energy coming off so natural as it used to. And I was on medications for a long time, which I think also suppressed that sexual energy. I remember even saying one time, I could not have sex for the rest of my life. I'd be fine. How does one move in and out their lives, not always feeling this connection to our sexual

energy? Well, sexual energy is sometimes thought of as something in the bedroom, something romantic. And true, forever we've been procreating, creating life with this energy. The last hundred or so years, recreating with the development of contraceptives. And so what we're teaching is how to co-create with this creative energy. And the kernel of that energy is created and pleasurable. So when we bring consciousness to this energy, what starts to show up outside of the bedroom is creativity and pleasure as a default way of listening and being in the simple process of living. So if I'm doing my tantric work in intimate vulnerability

and really tuning and listening frequency, listening to story, listening to energetic connection, moving energy, when I'm out and about and I'm at my job and I say, oh, I hate my job, 30 more years of retirement. Well, it's all energy and thoughts are energy and words are energy. And those words and what they produce in terms of an energy is something that I'm very now attuned to. I'm very accessible to what that thought does. And our thoughts that are precursor to what we actually manifest in the world. So if I can shift how I'm thinking and what I believe, then I can start to shift what I create and how I look into the world and how it appears to me and how I start creating it.

I want to harken back to what you shared about having these waves of times when you can think of not ever having sex again. So not being connected to that aliveness. Because in the end, that life-giving energy brings us aliveness. And yes, there are phases in life when we may be more connected with that and phases when we are less, depending on where our body is. Or like a mother, I mean, nursing and being pregnant and wow, you know, what a demand on the woman's body. It's amazing. I mean, what a woman's body can do and is, it's just a miracle, pure miracle. Magic. Yes. And I remember when Freddie and I had gotten together and like, you know, secondary, me, Elspeth, and my body. And that was also the years when post-menopause really hit. And I had the same thoughts as you described, you know, but I'm fine. I don't need this.

Now, since then, lots has happened, and I have returned to greater aliveness, both through the tantric practice and then with the support of some hormones, you know. Because that energy, it's really about aliveness, not necessarily about having sex, because I can feel turned on without having sex, actually. It's not dependent on sex. There are different dimensions of that arousedness, you know, very much in the physical, where we have these sensations in the physical body. But it also would be like arousal in the heart. It feels not purely sexual, but it has this, because the feeling of the heart arousal and the sexual center arousal,

they are so interconnected. So when I'm open here, it feels like, like oh i'm just turned on to live you know or the mental arousal you know have you ever had that like another person where you had discourse with about something and there was a closeness there was a getting each other. And it was like having intercourse without, but it was a mental. And then the last one is the spiritual. There may be others, but the last one is the spiritual, where we can have this spiritual connection, where we feel so like in the ethereal, the body can feel so with it.

It doesn't mean I have a physical climax you know so we want to or to get more attuned to these different dimensions it's so again so enlivening and i feel like aren't we here didn't we come for that to be be here? Rejoice, rejoice. We have no choice but to celebrate. Yeah. At any age. I just had an 81-year-old woman in my last Feminine Essence Workshop, and she was amazing how she is connected and wants to open further up to her sexual, intimate, connected way and share this with a man.

The man is not in her life yet, but she is like, this is what she wants. This is why she came here. And I'm so inspired. The thing that's wonderful about bringing consciousness to the sexual is the subtleties of pleasure we start tapping into, listening to, and start tuning with. And it's not in the bedroom only. Like you say, one of the things for guys in the practice, I have a men's workshop that I teach and there's a homework practice between the first day and the second day where they learn how to do

a self-love practice. One is at a high level, learning to separate ejaculation from orgasm and move the orgasmic nectar to your heart with your breath, attention on the sensation and intention to move it with the breath. The other level, guys will say, well, you know, I'm by myself doing this practice and what if I don't get a hard-on? So, to work with a soft-on is the same thing as working with a hard-on. So, moving a high level of energy with your breath is one level. Even if you just touch your hand and you feel that sensation, you tune into the location of that sensation and intention with the breath to move it, you can start to move that sensation with your heart and with your attention and your breath.

And that's the same idea. You can have a sense of pleasure from seeing a baby walk for the first time or a couple walking hand in hand hand and you have a warm sense and tune into where it is in your body and move it. And that gives you joy and open and capillaries, some of the same chemical reactions that happen when we're in a high level of sexual arousal. So when we start tuning and listening for that, it's everywhere. Life just shifts the way that we're listening and feeling into our dreams and the way we're experiencing people and conversations and food and life is essential for the human being to continue to keep growing and being alive. We can also use that energy, as Freddie said earlier, not just for procreation or recreation. We can use it to co-create with and so bring our awareness to that energy and then we can learn to channel that energy

so that I can move it up from my sexual center into my heart, into my mind, into my mental capacities. And then I can transcend that energy. I'm not saying I suppress it or not feeling it, yet I can transcend it into higher realms transmuting it into using it whatever whatever you want you know in our book we mention a gentleman by the name of napoleon hill who wrote a book in 1938 called think and grow rich and his whole thing was about getting people's thinking to believe

they could be rich to then create wealth. And one of the chapters in his book, he says, lucky, he said, he's a little patriarchal. He says, lucky is the man. We say lucky is the person. It's a long time ago. Lucky is the person who can learn to use their sexual energy to create wealth. And that's as far as he went. He didn't go about teaching how to do it. We do, to use sexual energy to create whatever you want. But my point is that people were hearing this long, long ago. And it's still deep in mysticism and allegory and story and religion and blah, blah, blah. And yet the sexual energy was creating life before we had language. There is a divinity, there is an intelligence. And when we use our awareness of ourselves and our intelligence to tap into that energy, it just

leads us right to where we want to go and where we have to go if we're going to survive as a human species. The beginning of the Bible, the story that we've been told, we have a distorted way of thinking about creation in this energy. And then we're shamed by it. You know, I mean, poor Mary Magdalene. I mean, she was not a prostitute. But even if she was, I mean, all of these things around sex when it came to religion, which you mentioned a little bit. But, you know, we didn't speak of this thing in my house.

We don't have shame around it. Still living under the cloak of these old stories written by men. A lot of it was to suppress women's sexual energy. And one of the primary edicts for the woman in the tantric practices is to rediscover and own and vitally really use and resource herself and her sexual energy. Because women are, you know, they're kind of, they're raised in general to be rewarded for their beauty, to be acknowledged for their beauty, guised for their power and their strength. Their prowess. And their prowess. And so women have been, by men, appropriated to suppress their sexual because that's where

they control the sexual piece. Men think they do, but they might do it by force, but they don't control it. So the woman, if you control that part of it, men suppress women. Yeah. Here's what become important to me, both for myself and when I work with women, is to actually return to that, you know, what the story about Adam and Eve and the apple, I see how I interpret it. This is actually essence of the woman, the capacity that the woman actually guides the

relationship, including the sexual. And for many of us, it's like that we want to reawaken that sense, that capacity that is within us. And there's a beauty in it. There is a lifess in it and to, as Freddie called it, owning it. And the guy is not controlling. It may not be the obvious. It is much more subtle, much more delicate. There is an energy that is so delightful for both then, for the woman and the man. And so when women own that, it's like there's something in the way she moves, you know, and we can just sip on that. You don't need to go, baby, you got to possess her. You can just sip on that joy, movement and the feeling.

And so for guys, it's learning how to become more conscious of this unconscious aspect of our sexuality. Because for guys, the only emotions that are allowed socially and sort of modeled are fucking and fighting. But tenderness, gentleness, nurturing is like, don't cry, man. This is what we're taught. We have all those emotions. So for a man, one of the things we do in the men's workshop is we do take him through a series of emotional release practices. So they get to get in touch with anger and love and all these different emotions. And I love these different kinds of emotions that men typically will shy away from.

Either if they fight, it's going to be too difficult and someone's going to get hurt. Or if they, you know, show craziness show craziness, they'll be judged some way. So them to start to broaden the opportunity to experience the breath of humanness is part of men's growth, all in process because the world is waking up. Oh, we can meditate with the sexual energy? We could tap into where this leads us because we could teach these practices to nuns and priests if they were vowed to celibacy. It's not about having sex with anybody. It's about being in the energy of that listening, of that capacity for us to feel and to be rejoiced and filled up with even death.

And that's what starts to occur when we start bringing consciousness into sexual practices that we're teaching them. Anybody in the body can get it if they're willing. You know, male sexual energy is based in testosterone. Testosterone, we call it the quick hormone, and it is very strong. Sexual energy is very strong, and teenage boys don't get initiated into their own sexual energy. What are they to do with it? And that stays with grown men. You know, they don't learn to channel their energy.

They need to get rid of it, so to speak, because it's so overwhelming. And they're taught, oh, blue balls, which is priaparism, the erection won't go down if they don't expel it. They don't know that they can circulate that energy and have more energy available to them. They don't have to always ejaculate, spill semen. The impulse is very high for men. I describe it like this, male sexual energy rises quickly, gets easily excited, and then drops quickly. We don't know if it's coming or going. Real sexual energy is very predictable. Feminine sexual energy is very unpredictable. However, when we stay with it, it can get reawakened. And when it wakens up to a plateau and then stay on the plateau for a long time,

multiple orgasms, orgasmic weight, being in the orgasmic ether. I don't have to go anywhere. He's like, man, I wish I could do that. Or do you? You have to practice to do that. Yeah. To channel his wonderful testosterone energy from his sexual center into his heart center. So if that is the torso, then from his sexual center, literally breathing it up, that nectar, that orgasmic nectar in his heart center. When he does that, it becomes more integrated. Otherwise, it's just compartmentalized, the sexual that needs relief release however every release every ejaculation is an enormous depletion of life force energy for the men this is why they want to rest afterwards so there's a disconnect between the two partners because it's a biological thing the energy is

gone it's a little time to be regenerated for younger men, shorter time, for older men, longer time. And we don't say not to ever ejaculate. However, we do say to choose to not ejaculate every time. So the men can really, you know, harvest that energy, both for lovemaking as well as then beyond. You know, if he has a meeting the next day that he wants to be fresh, that it only works when the man knows how to use the breath. Yeah.

There's a thing for a lot in the sexual fun called edging, where they get close to the ejaculation or orgasm and they just kind of keep playing with that edge. So this is not just edging, where they get close to the ejaculation or orgasm and they just kind of keep playing with that edge. So this is not just edging. This is conscious for a man particularly, it's using a Kegel squeeze, like a tourniquet on that base of the penis, the lingual, you know, PC muscle running around the base of the penis, intersecting at the perineum around the anus, like that. And you can squeeze it to stop urination. And that's the same squeeze that you use in a high level of ejaculatory reflex. And with that

muscle contraction and breathing, you can breathe through the ejaculatory reflex. Because after the reflex, you have refractory, where you lose the erection. You spill the semen, you lose the erection. So with that squeeze and breathing, you don't have ejaculation. You might have some ejaculate that stops at the southern end of the tourniquet and bleeds into your bladder, but what you won't have is refractory. And that's where you can go on for as long as you want. And you can keep playing with that energy and circulating that energy. And leading up to that, though, you're, say, getting to a seven or eight, eight,

nine, 10 being the ejaculatory moment where you would stop, you would do the squeeze, you would hold the squeeze, you would breathe it out. And then you're still moving very consciously that energy into the heart. Now, I have experiences sometimes when I'm in a meditation and I have what's called a heartgasm, flaccid penis or lingam, which is a Sanskrit term. And I'm in a flaccid state and I squeeze release. I have a sensation of energy in the second chakra, the sexual area of the body. And I breathe that up to the heart. And then it's like an explosion, tears, pleasure in my heart. I'm not even with a heart on. This is called subtle energy body playing with that. And this

is what's available to anybody who just gives it a little bit of learning and a little bit of practice. A little bit. For me as a woman, it's really to honor a man in his totality. And then how can we bring greater consciousness, further consciousness to our nature self? And as we want to have that room and space for ourselves as women to be totally with many women when they come to the work here, it's like they have gotten accustomed to actually becoming like men in terms of their sexual energy, like using vibrators is very much a masculine, you know, getting to the destination. It's not about, you know, being on the journey. And there's the impatience of, you know, I want to get that high feeling. So you can imagine we are not that much for vibrators, but not only for that reason,

but also because vibrators actually deaden the nerve endings, more and more stimulation. And so what we want to return to is the flow, because that is what the feminine is about. Feminine energy is circular, flowing, all creative, playful, you know, all like this. Masculine energy is linear, protruding, you know, extending like this. Together, they complement each other really well. I was just reflecting like a lot of times when you think about sex, you think about pleasure for the other person. What I'm hearing from both of you, and correct me if I'm wrong, this is an inner journey. And then it's understanding each other's sexual energy yes yes it's very much so that it starts from within and i cannot be more deeply connected with freddie if i don't more deeply connect with myself and just what you described

earlier in that experience you know where you will be fallen by that. Old story. And this is all, you know, it's not our partner's fault. It's not because of him or vice versa because of her. If something goes on for him, it gets triggered through the other. And let's welcome the trigger because it is the opportunity to discover, rediscover something about myself that actually had been lying dormant. And that keeps me from fullest aliveness. You know, if like you said so beautifully, because that is what so often happens.

Oh, let me just get over with it. You know, he can have his pleasure. I'm just here a portal or something. You know, never, ever do this again, Shana. Never, ever. You know, what we're talking about is there's a particular ritual, and there is a construct where there's a receiver and a giver. And this is not to replace the mutual lovemaking,

the back and forth, the pleasing her, pleasing you, or him pleasing you, and so on. It's not to replace that. It's to add this other dimension of what we can do with the sexual. So I can also have a sexual meditation with myself. I don't have to just have sex for pleasure to somebody else, or somebody else will have to pleasure me. I can have just this meditation to start empowering my dreams, my work, my project, and have fun and create babies and do and draw on it just walking around. So there's so much to do. And that's what we're wanting to open up for people. Yeah. Let's just share a little bit more about that because we have talked more about the self-love, the solo practice. So in the partner practice, these particular rituals, there's one dedicated to the woman. We call it the y I had been introduced to our sexual center as a sacred space, probably our sexual trajectory may have gone differently because as a sacred space, I honor, I cherish. It's not like, don't go there. Only married as if it was someone else's

energy. Yeah, I can share it with them. Yet, it is my energy. So in that yoni ritual, the woman is the receiver, the man is the giver. And this ritual, and we maintain these roles for the entire ritual, which can be an hour long, two hours long, sometimes longer, depending on what came up. And that was actually the ritual that was the pivotal moment for me in my healing. Because when I was touched in that ritual inside my yoni around 11 o'clock, this memory came up about the 18-year-old, you know, first boyfriend, first love, and then that I was not ready for, and my dad calling me a whore the boyfriend all of that came back like this and along with it all that pain just like your body got stiff the body

reacts the pain the physical pain came back like opening a valve just by touching inside that spot and it could only happen because the practice, I worked with a practice partner. Freddie was not in my life yet. I did go to study Tantra so I could discover, you know, what was in the way of me having a beloved, a lasting beloved in my life. So that was the intention. And so the emotional pain from the 18-year-old, all that flared up.

Yet, just like, you know, opening a valve where the steam gets more intense and then fizzles out, in the same way that pain fizzled out, the emotional pain, the physical pain, and what opened up was deeper trust. And so this ritual where the man is there as a giver, as a space holder, and Freddy coaches the guys how to be there with a woman, how to ask her for permission to enter her with his fingers. We use the fingers, the man uses the fingers because he can pay more attention to it and listen through his fingers. He could also do a healing with his lingam, which is the magic wand, the penis, but that takes so much mastery because so many nerve endings on the penis, it takes a lot of mastery for men to use that magic wand as a

healing tool. So initially it all happens with the hands. And then also men come back from that ritual and say, I never had an idea how it feels inside and how she feels inside. There may be places that feel pleasurable to her. Some feel like it's numb. Others feel like enormous pain, physical pain, or then it brings on emotional pain. It triggers something. And we use this for healing purposes. We don't use this to hang out in the pain. No, this is just an access to that what had been constricted. Pain is constriction, so that this can loosen up. And in the loosening up, there's an opening, both of the capillaries and then an opening of the soul, of the being, again, back to aliveness, where aliveness can reenter. And that is where, you know, the connection opens up further. And then often couples come back and say, we felt so intimate with each other, and they didn't have sex in the common sense wow that's so beautiful well thank you guys i mean i can't tell you how i think it's amazing that you guys are doing this and you're doing it together 22 years i've had other people on and you know they're just individuals who share

their experience but to see and hear from both of you, from your divine feminine, your divine masculine, it's very beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. So sweet. Very nice. Shana, we have a gift for the audience. So we thought out of the conversation, because I can imagine that certain thoughts

got ignited out of our conversation today, probably also some interest, you know, I mean, how am I going to learn this? So we thought if we are giving you a gift with a couple of practices that then actually lead you, that leads to sexual meditation, that they are the foundation for it. Without that foundation, we cannot do sexual meditation. And so that each of you who is listening today has a way of learning at home, right away. You don't have to go anywhere. And then, of course, it's called Introduction to Sexual Meditation. It's a video class. and it's about learning yourself. Of course, you can have your partner there so they can learn for themselves, and then you can share. And then, of course, you can also go to our website at tantranova.com, T-A-N-T-R-A-N-O-V-A.com,

where there's our book Sexual Enlightenment if you like to read up on it and the background the history and it's also on Audible

as well and on the homepage of the Tantra Nova website scrolling down it's the book

when you click on it it takes you to Amazon either hard copy or Audible and then oh yeah and then there are the programs the workshops you know It takes you to Amazon, either hard copy or Audible. And then, oh, yeah, and then there are the programs, the workshops. You know, we have many workshops here in Chicago.

One is just for women, Awaken to Your Feminine Essence. One is just for men, Men, Sex, and Power. And then we have our COVID workshops, the Found workshop for couples and singles and men and women. It's called Secrets to Lasting Intimacy. So, by the way, the women's workshop can be accessed either in person coming here or online. So, sometimes people say, I cannot travel or something. So, that doesn't mean that you couldn't do the work with us. Same with the men's workshop.

The co-ed workshops, you've got to come here because you need a partner to do the work with, and if you come as a single, you get paired up with a practice partner. And so anyway, that's just a glimpse of what's available. Also private programs. Some people feel like, oh, I'm more private. I want to do this on a one-on-one basis, either as or as a couple. So we have different offerings that may speak to different needs, to different wishes. I think we should be more conscious about everything we do, but especially this. The most important thing in the life.

Yeah, and how we can use it for even a fuller life. Yeah. Once we bring consciousness again, that starts to open up as a possibility. It shifts the whole possibility of what we can do or what we are comfortable to allow to do, ourselves to do. Thanks, you guys, so much for coming on and sharing. I really learned a lot. Thank you for having us for coming on and sharing. I really learned a lot. Thank you for having us. It's really great.

Wonderful conversation. Yeah, really good. Thanks. Nice to meet you both. Thanks for listening to Sense of Soul Podcast. And thanks to our special guests for joining me. If you want more of Sense of Soul, check out my website at www.mysenseofsoul.com where you can work with me one-on-one or help support Sense of Soul Podcast by donating to my coffee fund. Thanks for listening.