Sense of Soul - The Bothell Hell House

Episode Date: October 29, 2021

Today for our Halloween special, we have a spooky one for you. In this episode we will be talking about one of America’s most controversial paranormal cases. Joining us is Keith Linder, who lived in the now famed Bothell Hell House near Seattle, Washington. Keith who is an IT professional for over twenty-five years, shares how when he moved in with his girlfriend Tina into a beautiful home in the suburbs  they would soon realized they were not alone.  Keith shares the incredible poltergeist they experienced in the years living in the Bothell house, and what they witnessed while living there would change their lives forever. They seeked help from many priest, paranormal investigators, including the popular tv show Ghost Adventures investagated in “Demons in Seattle,” Season 10, Episode 10 and then finally an in dept lengthy investigation by experienced parapsychologist from the UK, Steve Mera and Don Philips, with an abundance of evidence. There are 8 books written about this haunted house, Keith himself wrote 3 of them, many documentaries, a variety of evidence and interviews for you to go down the rabbit hole! Just search “The Bothell Hell House!” Or go to the following links below. Get Keith’s books here on Amazon: The Bothell Hell House: Poltergeist of Washington State  Find them here! Documentary- Demons in Seattle Uncovered   https://youtu.be/lAsPe63vWEY The files of evidence found here: https://haunted-washingtonstatepoltergeist.blogspot.com Please Subscribe, Rate and Review!  Learn more about Sense of Soul at www.mysenseofsoul.com. You can now listen to all of Shanna’s mini-series about her ancestral journey “Untangled Roots,” exclusively on Sense of Soul Patreon and we are about to start 777 Chakra Journey for Patreon subscribers, 7 weeks of the 7 Chakras in November so sign up now!! https://www.patreon.com/senseofsoul

Welcome to the Sense of Soul podcast. We are your hosts, Shanna and Mandy. Grab your coffee, open your mind, heart, and soul. It's time to awaken. Today we have with us one of America's most controversial poltergeist cases, where paranormal disturbances haunted its occupants in a home in Seattle, Washington. Many have investigated this property, including priests, ghost adventurers, and parapsychologists from the UK. Today joining us is Keith Linder to share his dark story of the unexplained phenomena that he and his girlfriend experienced while living in Seattle's now famed Bothell Hell House. We are super excited and have long awaited our conversation with Keith, and we are glad to be giving you this episode during Halloween, because it is spooky as hell.

Keith is here. Hello. Hey. Hello. Good morning. How you doing? Good. How are you? Oh, doing good. Working from home. What do you do? I'm an IT project manager. I work for a tech company. I live in Seattle, but because of COVID,

I've been working from home for about a year and a half. The whole company has. I used to live there as well. Yeah, most beautiful place I've ever lived, minus my vitamin D deficiency. Couldn't handle it. I'm from Texas, so a took a while to get used to. Well we're excited to talk to you. We know you'll be worth the wait. We had some technical

difficulties or spirits or maybe just a sammamish storm that disconnected us last time. We love doing spooky for October and Shannon and I love paranormal so we're excited to talk to you Keith oh it's good to be back and yeah you're right I'm used to the technical difficulties while telling my stories some more extreme than others I've seen people's computers reboot I've seen objects fall in the background of the host or hostess house, phantom doorbell rings, cats or dogs. I've been crazy in the middle of my story being told. So yeah, good times. You know, we had on John Frazier from the UK last year, and he mentioned your story. So we looked it up, and that was where our interest started in the Bothell House.

Oh yeah, I know John very well. We exchange notes and chat on Facebook and Twitter a lot. He's a good friend and very knowledgeable of Portuguese and he finds this case very interesting. He's got a creepy-ass voice. I mean, I love him to death but boy he fixed up the mold when he talks about his his work yeah so keith we were wondering if you could uh just you know for today just do like a super creepy voice for us i'll work on my vincent price voice you should have him do an audible yeah the voiceover on your book that would be terrifying yes yeah you know and he really widened the the spectrum of what a poltergeist is for me because i mean i always just thought you know poltergeist the movie taking notes from this i too have a lot of activity. And, you know, I was comparing myself

and all of the things that I've experienced in the years to your story. And I think I've experienced, well, not any writing on the walls, but many of the things that you did. But mine's more drawn out. Yours was just like, boom, you know, in a short amount of time. Yeah, it was like a hurricane parked on top of our house, literally came out of nowhere. I mean, just one day, oh, stuff is flying. Oh, okay, lights are going off and on. I had no experience with the paranormal. I had no interest per se, so me and my ex girlfriend, we were newbies, right? We were being introduced to something and you're right, the worst thing that comes to our mind

is the movie, Poltergeist, you know, the 80s movie. And what we saw and lived through, there was no reference to look at to say what not to do, what to do, who to call, who not to call. You're really making it up as you go and how you deal with the phenomena and with no resource behind you, it's just going to make the activity worse because we did things that I know escalated the activity. We looked the darkness dead in the eye. It does look back, FYI. From the Portuguese standpoint,

we were just easy pickers. We were just vulnerable because we knew nothing about it. How did you grow up, Keith? I mean, what's your spiritual background? You grew up in Texas. Did you have a Christian background? Christian background,

not devout, but Christian nonetheless. Went to church with my mom on Sundays periodically, not all the time. We had Christian ideals. How about that? And then as I grew older and older, my knowledge grew, my understanding of the world grew. no practice in darkness, no BG board, no sneaking into a haunted house or an abandoned hospital. I knew of it. And then we just knew from early on, there's things you don't play with, right? You know, you don't understand it, don't play with it. You know, so that was that. I didn't go looking for stuff. I didn't, I that opportunity, but I always like, nah, that's not my company. Too dark. I'm not going there. What about Tina? What was her upbringing? Did she play with anything? Did she invite the darkness in at all? Do you know?

No, we asked each other that question, you know, once the activity started happening. Keep in mind, Tina and I worked together two years once the activity started happening keep in mind she and I worked together two years before the activity started she had her place I had my own and we asked each other especially our friends and family how well do you know that Keith guy or hey how well you know that Tina girl and she was honest with me I was honest with her because we live in the same house we try to troubleshoot get to the bottom of it but she she's sort of like me, didn't grow up religious, grew up with Christian ideals. And that was that, you know, no playing with the dark side.

I'll watch a scary movie, try to get her to watch a scary movie. She watched the first five minutes of it, then she's done, she's like, I'm out of here. So she was very jittery, and me, where I would be subject to a scary moment, I like a good scare, she would get out of there.

Where is Bothell? Bothell is a suburb of Seattle. You know, I'm from New Orleans, so when it comes to the history of the land, I'm very interested. Even here in Colorado, you know, lots of Indians and you being from Texas, I mean, lots of history, old history, you know, in the South. I don't know much about the history in the land of Seattle or even Washington.

People don't realize that the Pacific Northwest, talking about history-wise, is older than the East Coast, okay? Because if we go by history, Native Americans migrated from Asia, coming through Alaska, Northern Canada, landed on the West Coast of now America, and then moved eastward. That's just the whole history of the geography of it so it's often forgot about because we tell in america we tell it from the east going to west right colonial and all that and then the encounters with native americans goes in that order east to west but in reality native americans the history is older, West going East. So Bothell in the state of Washington, Oregon, California, there's some deep Native American roots there that don't often get talked about. And even when I moved here from Texas, you live in Texas, you live in Austin, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Fort Worth, El Paso.

Those are not Native American names. Okay, those are just Texas names. And the names come from usually the person who discovered the city, like Stephen F. Austin. Whereas Seattle is named after Chief Seattle. Okay, she was saying Stahomish. Stahomish is a Native american name kind of did i live in county sky combs river when i moved here everything has our still name after native american it didn't go on me until after i started doing a little bit but it was weird i was like oh and

you see the symbols i mean if you look at the the Seattle Seahawk, even a Seahawk is drawn on the helmet of the tribe. There's deep roots here. You don't have to drive far to find it. It's really in your face, per se. Bothell, Stahomish County, close to Lake Washington, there's two rivers that feed it. It's called the Skykomish River and Stahomer's River. And these, the Native Americans lived all throughout that area and still did. We forgot about all that. You sort of don't think about that moving into a neighborhood because

I lived in Texas all my life. So Native American, I guess, history is not in your face every day. Whereas in Pacific Northwest, you see it everywhere you go. Part of the culture. And when we started having activity and what sort of gave the indication that some of this phenomenon might be native american related not all of a sudden was the symbols on the wall you know and then the history of Bothell, a lot of the cities, Seattle included, there this area and moved in, the Native Americans,

instead of protesting the mass extinction of the American buffalo, you know, we all know that story, right? The Native Americans here were protesting the mass or near extinction of the trees and the salmon population. They felt both were being over-resourced, meaning the mass chopping down of trees and the overabundance of pulling the salmon out the river. And I'm pretty sure you're aware of this. The Native Americans now a as a means of

reparations control the salmon population and growth of the pacific northwest so uh but there was major wars and factions uh as that led up to that you know it is so true i've just gone on this journey of you know the history that's not been told and I find it it's so important though especially when you're living on the land because a lot of times if you can make kind of peace and connect with that land but you can't do that unless you have some knowledge about you know where you're living yeah and i didn't know this during until i researched it because like i said it's hard to know it unless you read about it and my paradigm in my head was okay you and i and everybody else when we die right we die

christ is christian to believe we're going to be buried underground you know all the six feet under six feet under is a biblical record why six feet why not four why not five it's six feet under native americans including the pacific northwest the tribes that live in and around bothell they don't bury their dead underground wow they bury their dead in trees no way yeah what's this threw me totally off the loop like yeah no shit how does that yeah so i was asking myself the question of when the portugueses attacked my house and other stories of portugueses linked to you know native american land i was like well come on mr mrs portugueses how are we supposed to know if we build a house on the land how are we supposed to know if we build a house on the land, how are we supposed to know this body or something? I mean, help us help you, right?

How do we know that? You know, I can't look into our land and say, you know, because we've gone hundreds of thousands of years, right? So how do we know that? Well, then I started reading the tribes and they said, well, men marked their bird grounds, make them easily markable because they don't want anybody to trespass. You drive down a road, right, and you get to a dead end and say, do not cross, or they stop right here, you know. Well, you're supposed to turn back around and not go any farther. Well, if you go across that fence, right, then all bets are off, right? You ignore the sign. The same thing with Native American native american burger they buried their dead

above ground in trees and that was meant to let you know okay this is a sacred area go find somewhere else to have your picnic okay therefore if you ignore that you know let's take these dead bodies put them in the museum put them in crates and get them out of here. This is the new. Then they're like, okay, you ignored it, now we're going to haunt. So I was like, oh, okay. And then when I went and looked at the microfilm in Bothell and all that, the settlers, the people who migrated, they would talk about it. They would talk about, oh, yeah, we want this land, we want this area in Bothell, and the Native American tribes say, no, don't build it. Don't build it. These are our people that are buried here.

They don't mean buried like underground. They're resting in trees. And the settlers would describe what they saw. They were like, yeah, they would just remove the bones. You know, the bones are decayed and rotted or whatever. But that's, in a Native American standpoint, that's still no excuse to move them. Still, I do not disturb. So we were like, oh, okay.

Hollywood has made it seem like they're underground or something like you saw in the Portuguese movies, the famous swimming pool scene when all the bodies start coming. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. Maybe that's why they were protesting the trees. Yes, that's why.

So tell us what attracted you to this house. Why did you choose it? What was going on? Was it a great neighborhood? It was a newly built home built in 2005. We didn't know this when we moved in, but it was a newly built neighborhood. All the homes sort of looked the same.

We fell in love with the house as soon as we saw it on Christmas. We saw the picture and we were like, oh, a house available. Called the landlord, whoever. It was still being lived in. He said the tenants haven't moved out yet. So we waited like six weeks. And then we got to tour. We knew it was just a formality.

We was into the house regardless and after we toured the home we made an offer like we want a house so it just suited our need it was five bedroom there's only two of us so it's very it's gonna be very spacious and we can have friends over i work downtown Seattle, so the commute to downtown, a little bit challenging, but not impossible. Yeah, it just seemed like the house to get, yeah. You know how when you move into a new house, you have to get used to those, like, you know, different sounds? I know every single house I've moved into, you know, the furnace sounds different, or the street outside, you know, the plumbing.

I mean, you have to kind of like get used to it. How was your first few nights there? Well, yeah, the house noise. And that was one of the things we were battling was, how do you distinguish between, quote unquote, ghost noise and house noise? Because we're in a new home, right right so there's obviously going to be noises that the house makes you know there was a new house case is settling you're you know it's

settling so we would hear noises and be like what's that noise and then i would rule out oh it's house noise or it's plumbing or it's the heating system or a car driving by. But one thing I will add to that is the noise the Portuguese makes is easily distinguishable. It's not something that I started to learn is not household. Very quickly, the Portuguese brought it to the credit of they don't want their activity being confused with house stories. So an example would be me and Tina are eating dinner downstairs, a two-story home. And we hear footsteps upstairs, pitter-patter, pitter-patter. You would swear

somebody's up. And normally, because I grew up, you know, I had brothers and sisters. We're always in different places at the house at different times of the day. So you're used to movement above your head. Oh, my sister's in her room, or my brother's in the bathroom, or whatever. Or somebody's coming downstairs. There's only us two living in the home. So there should be nothing coming from upstairs. And we hear like footsteps going from room to room. I kid you not.

It feels like somebody is going room to room. Like, and I look at Tina to look at me and we're like, but you have nothing to base that on. So you're just like, well, that's just weird. That's just, okay. We're not taking ghosts. Okay. That's an interesting house noise, you know,

because it sounds very much like a person is running from the room. But we disavowed it. The day we could not disavow it anymore was the day the plant levitated. You know, I'm pretty sure that the poachers guys probably were saying to themselves, they're going to disavow everything until we finally do something they can't disavow. What movie were you watching when that plant moved? I was curious. Do you remember? I don't remember.

I think it was Netflix. It was very lighthearted. It was very early on in moving into the home. I think we were home maybe six weeks in. And the plant being next to the TV, we both saw it at the same time i was so glad kina was there you're always glad when someone else sees it you're like just had a plant move like two weeks ago me and my daughter both watched it it happened twice and i was like holy shit we're just so not phased anymore though yeah i mean that will come later when we i guess the light stuff

we became not phased by you know the tv changing by itself yeah the footsteps upstairs the footsteps uh occasional door slam hey cut that out stop doing it yeah right but the major stuff yeah it just blew us away so it shifted and went dark, is that right? A majority of Portuguese cases where you go from light to dark. Different stages, different time periods and then you're like, okay, first we thought it was a friendly

kid ghost. I kid you not because we heard a kid call. We're finding kid toys. We have no toys. And we're like, ah, it's a friendly ghost. We treated it like a third room and like hey okay be kind of cool to have a little journey running around as long as you don't you know get go crazy but a little casper you know a little mask a little house the data we're being fed from the internet is if the kid goes or goes it'll eventually get bored leave or whatever but definitely kid goes

it's probably lost confused take on a parental role you know instructed to go to the life to cut that out you know like a little kid and cut that out they'll eventually get the message hours when we did that start acting up more you know like the kid in the grocery store you tell him he can't have nothing, he starts stomping with his feet. This one started acting up worse, and they were like, whoa, that's not nice, that's not Casper. Casper doesn't do that on a cartoon. And then

finally it just, boom! You know, start throwing stuff. You're like, okay, I think something else is here. Yeah. Something, that was pretty You're like, okay, I think something else is here. Yeah. Something, that was pretty big. That was a big couch that went like, yeah, that's not nice.

Right, you're like, that's not Casper the nice ghost. You know what like just chilled me? Like I got goosebumps. The hair was like standing on my body was when I was reading the description of the stuff that was coming out of your walls. That to me was not only just bone chilling, which is interesting because what is it called? It's called bone. Bone black, bone char, yeah.

Yeah. Can you talk about that yeah so the black wall the black car like substance began to appear late summer 2014 things escalate in all activity including wall writing so the first few wall writings involved sage ash because we had a sage stick and we would leave and come back and we used the stick to write upside down crosses. But we cleaned that relatively easily and quickly. A little bit of an inconvenience, but not major. And then the substance of oil began to be different stuff that became harder to remove. You know, and one of the things which is hard to remove, I learned, is bone black.

Well, we didn't know that going in. It was just all this black oil. It looks like paint, maybe not, kind of, sort of. It's weird. It's weird to the touch. One day, this was a few months after Ghost Adventures had left, I was really upset that they didn't take any samples with them. I thought they would because I had done research,

and the research I found out is it's an expensive test, probably several thousands of dollars. So I didn't want it to really come out of my pocket. And I thought ghost hunters would take it, and they got bigger pockets than me, but they didn't take it. So one day after this episode aired, I worked for a tech company, an IT company, but we have a lab in one of our offices. A co-worker saw the episode

and he saw the wall writings. He said, you know we got equipment here that can test that stuff. My eyes just lit up like, what are you saying? What do you mean? Yeah, we got a lab upstairs. I chiseled a piece that was on the door, brought

it up to our lab. He put it under a machine, a very expensive machine, and it started coming up with organic material. It started listing the makeup of the material. He said, well, this is not paint. It's not lead, because that's what the machine protects. It's to detect lead and paint material. It didn't get it down to a site this this device. So it gave a breakdown of what everything they picked it up and it came back with organic material but we still didn't know what it was. We thought oh okay well we know what it's not

we don't know what it is. So I took the print out and I started calling art galleries. Let me call and just give them my ingredients list and see what they tell me. And several art galleries start telling me, oh, that's bone char, that's bone black. What is it? So I Googled it and it's incinerated buffalo bison bone. And then I was like, well, that's Native American.

Okay, who would incinerate buffalo bone and why? And then I learned through research, oh, well, Native Americans use bone black. It's one of the oldest forms of black paint, and it is, it was used for pictography and calligraphy for its durability sake. And I was like, oh, okay. And they said, yeah, when you had in the 1800s the mass extinction of Buffalo, one of the particles that was always discarded was the skull. They didn't use the skull. But they condensed it in a heat furnace and reduced it down to a black tar charcoal-like substance. Bone black even today is one of the

most primary sources for filtrization. I didn't know that, but as soon as I said I was interested, bone charcoal and black, and then I was like, oh, that's all over my walls. Even more dark was we also had yellow, like olive oil substance that was coming out of the walls in every room of the house. You can't really see it in the pictures because it's transparent. Yeah, I saw that. Everywhere. Okay. it's transparent yeah everywhere okay and bone black by itself in its final form is very chalky substance very granular okay and when i started talking to paint experts i was like well how are

they making the bone black adhere to the surface. Every paint substance needs an adhesive ingredient. Well in the old days, guess what, we didn't know this, and by that I mean 19th, early 20th century, the number one paint adhesive was olive oil. It was the number one paint adhesive because it's very thin and it will adhere the paint to the wall many painters use that in their i'm talking about the rembrandts the picasso's and whatnot and that's why you see today these pictures of 200 300 years old you see that yellow hue about them even the mona lisa okay it's that yellow that's the olive well that oil. That's the adhesive coming through the paint. So the bone, if you incinerate it down to the bone black portion,

it produces its own adhesive, which is called Dipple's Oil. Dipple's Oil is named after Conrad Dipple. Dipple's his last name. He's the one who discovered Dipple's oil from incinerating animal bone. And it became its own adhesive. So you have a solution that not only produces a black paint, but also produces the adhesive ingredient to make it stick. We have the yellow substance all over our house.

Steve Maris and the Donphilips in the world took some of those samples back to the UK. And we determined that was Dipple's oil. And the color Dipple's oil is just like canola oil, just like olive oil, has the same hue, the same color. But it only comes from the incinerated animal bone. It's the melted fat fat it's the melted marrow the bone but it's all over the walls and then one answer creates 10 more questions because

now i'm asking where is the portuguese getting this stuff from you know i call paint stores all over the country all over the world You cannot buy large quantities of neither one, Dippel's oil or Bona. You know, Home Depot, Home Depot, they don't know what you're talking about. They haven't seen your art gallery. Did you try Lowe's? Lowe's always seems to know more than Home Depot. They pride themselves on that, right? Yeah.

So you needed help but i mean ultimately there's all these you know unanswered questions and all these dead ends so were you just like we need some professional help like i'm digging but i don't know what i'm digging for this is way above my head way above my pay grade but everywhere i go this is new info, this is new territory, I mean there are documents of other Portuguese hauntings of similar wall substance you know the San Pedro haunting that came out of the 80s, late 90s

out of California, Dr. Barry Taft investigated, they found blood plasma coming out of the walls and they tested it, it was type O blood but the family had type A and they found large quantities of it. This thing just manifests, but I kid you not, it's manifesting through the wall. It's not being applied to the wall.

Like you and I, we go paint our room, you're painting over something that's pre-existing. You may go from green to purple or purple to green, but you are applying paint. Even when you buy a brand new house, the walls are already painted, right? So you either like the paint color that's there when you move in, I'm going to change that as soon as I move in. So you're applying the paint. This bone black is coming through the firmament. It's coming through the wall. You can't tell if the paint is being applied or coming through the structure unless you put the material under a microscope. And I did.

I chiseled out a piece of the wall or the door and put it under a digital microscope. In my book, you can see the bone black microscopic thing now, invisible to the naked is in the in the material of the house okay it starts off like these little dots these little tiny dots that's invisible to the naked eye okay you're talking about 1,000 to 1,500,000 times magnification is what I had to do to get into the quantum level of the material and you see it and then you see these dots grow typically they got these arms coming out these little tentacles and they connect to other dots and the dots connect to other dots other dots but finally you got the 666 you got the upside down man symbol it's all over the wall so, where my mind goes after reading that,

after seeing that under a microscope, the process started a long time ago. Well, the process started before it became visible. It went from micro to macro. And now you and I can see it. But I always wondered when living in the house, did the Portuguese do that instantly? Was it like an instant growth or gradual?

It coincided with either the activity, the other activity, or coincided with the mood swings of me and Tina? Right. It coincided with the weather, the time of day, the time of month, a ley line, a celestial, you know, whatever. All kinds of ways you can go with that. So called in a priest first is that right is that was that the first help that you got was from an actual priest yeah i called in several people you're like every nomination come over here come in bless the house save the smudge the house. Different denominations came in with their method for cleansing the house. Most blessed every room from top to bottom.

Of course, the Catholic Church responded a little bit quicker and had a methodology that they follow of blessing. Okay, now we're going to bless every room. Now we're'm gonna bless every room i'm gonna bless every room inside outside now we're gonna hold communion we're gonna hold mass to try to dial back the activity it seemed demonic because i mean 666 and you had three burning bibles yeah it seemed demonic but here's here's the kick. The things that made it demonic are the things that this case is not really known for. And I guess it's been made public, but not been talked about a lot. I wish it was. But some of the things that made the case seem demonic were the appearance of shadowy figures. Yeah, okay. demonic were the appearance of shadowy figures yeah okay uh i've seen them these things are

creepy crawly ugly vicious looking you ever see that movie gremlins and critters you ever see that movie i'm talking about the old classic yes gremlins, my dog looks like a gremlin. Your dog looks like a gizmo. Oh, okay. They don't look like gizmo, they look like Sprite. It's a cross between the critters and the nasty gremlins. And they have that personality. Okay. That's the personality that we saw, I saw in the house.

And the size is right. I mean, I know that the gremlins and critters are aliens, but the size is what the shadowy figures were in the house. Another thing that went too demonic was the mass appearance

of flies. I'm talking about flies in the dead of winter. And I'm not talking about a fly in your kitchen or, you know, hovering above you and over your food or whatever. No,'m not talking about a fly in your kitchen or hovering above you and over your food or whatever. I'm talking about you go into a room somewhere in the house, open the door.

It doesn't get much traffic. There's no window or nothing. And it's snowing outside. There's snow on the ground. It's dead. It's mid-December. And these flies, and these are big flies. I've lived in Texas all my life. i know what a horsefly looks like they're gigantic the flies we saw in the bottle house are the size of nickels and they don't fear humans meaning that you can swap at them they will not move okay you just you can

kill them and come back a day later there'll be another one there. I've had that, Keith. I remember thinking, isn't this weird? It's snowing. It's strange. That's interesting. Then the foul smell, the stench smell that sounds like

backed up plumbing times 20 it lasts maybe three seconds and it's gone. It's like a whip. It's like, you know, you turn this way, you smell it, you turn this way, it's gone. It's like a whip. It's like, you know, you turn this way, you smell it, you turn this way, it's gone. It's out of nowhere. By the time you pay a mental attention to it, it's gone. I can only think of three instances where we had that occur of the smell and it was during the dark campaign of the attacks in the house. It was in the same week of the flies. You want to know what else freaked me out, Keith? The house, it had a phantom heartbeat that could be heard and felt from deep within your

mattress. Oh yeah. And you talk about like the house, like it was its own entity. I mean, that is fucking creepy. The house felt like it was alive. I mean, I tried to, and it's hard to describe, I'm glad you brought that up because when I caught up with the previous tenant, Rhonda, who lived in the house 2008-2009, one of the things she told me, which I agree with her 200% was, it felt like the house was alive. We have come home, me and Tina, and I kid you not, you walk into your house from a long day at work, right? You might meet your significant other home, so you're there by yourself.

And you're just rummaging through the kitchen, and it feels like the house is watching you. And it's like the house is asking itself or asking you, why are you here? Why are you here early? And I remember one paranormal team when they came to the home early on and they heard the humming and the heartbeats. We had been living in the home for a while. Our brain wasn't not picking it up because we were inside the home.

We had to step outside and step back in. Hear it. And you hear it you know nikki novell paranormal team came and lived at home for a month and i've been telling people all the time about the phantom heartbeats in the mattress i tell people that's probably one of the weirdest things of all everything weird in the house that one by far is the top two top three and the reason being is you could be laying in your bed channel surfing right and all of a sudden underneath your your leg or your thigh or your chin you feel the pulsating right you move your leg you put your hand above it and you feel the pulsating you move your hand and put your ear come on your ear and you feel the pulsating and that started happening over and over especially while sleeping through your pillow

through the headboard and i was glad nikki nikki novella she felt it she was lucky to be in the home one day when it occurred and she put her hand down and she felt it what coincides with that because there's something that coincides with that is the mattress indentation you know i don't have a pet we didn't have pets but i grew up with pets as a kid i know what an animal feels like when we get in bed with you i know you know you see if you have a cat you know cats own the own the house, right? They own your house. We just let the cat come to your bed or whatever. It wants to be petted or whatever. You can feel the mattress indentation. Whenever my dog or cat made it onto my bed, I could feel. That's what this feels like, except there's nothing on the bed. And this mattress indentation is coming towards you. So there's been times, Mandy and Shannon,

where I had my back turned toward the wall of my bedroom. Tina could be in the bathroom getting ready or something, or not even there. And on Tina's side of the bed, which is vacant, right? My back is turned on my side of the bed. And something, it feels like an invisible bowling ball fell from the ceiling onto the bed. Like, boom. My eyes were dart open.

I hear Tina in this room. Something's behind me. I turn around. Nothing, of course. I try to go back to sleep. It starts all over again. One morning, I was just so tired. We had so much activity the night before

that I felt the indentation coming toward me. And I didn't even move. I'm not even moving. I'm not even going to look back. If you kill me, kill me, whatever. I felt this whoosh go in me. It didn't come out the other side. It went through my back, Like an electrical wire. I was like, you know,

for like 30 seconds. Where does that end? Wow. I feel like you and I could compare stories forever. You and me, thousands of other, you got to study them as a whole. Criminal researchers and investigators should focus on the similarities because we're going back hundreds of years of you. You are Portuguese cases, 300, 500 years old. And the things that stand out to me is the things that I can relate to.

Yeah, that happened to me too. But it makes you feel a little less fucking crazy, right, Keith, to know that other people have experienced this yeah because i like to think of me being a 19 professional as an analytical thinker i want an answer to a question i'm not crazy i know i know i'm not seeing things i you know it's a heartbeat in my bed that's just i think it's safe to say yours was definitely whatever was in the energy in your home was very extreme compared to anything I've ever seen or felt at Shanna's. I mean, your office was torn up. We're talking about valuable electronics. We're talking about just lots of your property being ruined. I mean, 60 pages of

evidence, documentaries, books. I mean, it's unbelievable how much evidence you have. Yeah. Baseball, softball size holes in the wall, things of that nature. What's interesting is I could see a candle fly across me and hit something and ricochet, right? And go toward the direction of both the sound and the destruction. There is a hole, a new hole in my wall. There's a damage. There's a little bit of debris on the floor.

The candle that's caused all this is gone. And that happened so many times, I lose count. I mean, I would, because I did a tally. I think I put it in my second book of the damage. I think overall damage, probably about $25,000 worth of house damage. Jesus. Probably about $15,000 of electronic stuff is missing. Can't, it's hard to put a value on the air loans and jewelry and eye loss. But yeah, that's just the physical stuff. So prior to Steve and Don Phillips

doing a very thorough investigation, you did have Zach and his team from Ghost Adventures, which most people have seen that show before. They only spent like, you know, what, three to five hours really investigating? Five hours. And then comparing that to how much time did Steve spend on investigating? See, yeah, good question. So Ghost Adventures, five hours of investigating.

That's bullcrap. I, having no experience in the paranormal, knew that was not enough time because I knew the activity that we were experiencing came in bell curves. It came in bell curves, right? And when Steve and Dawn, they came twice, Steve and Don. The first time they stayed, I believe it was seven days. And the seven days that they were there, I can tell you on my mother's life that they spent 18 hours a day investigating the seven days that they were there. They never slept. I mean, I watching them, giving them total access to my home. I remember when Steve pulled up to my house.

I remember this like it happened yesterday. And he came in, did a little survey up the upstairs and downstairs the first area that he really wanted to go to was the office you know you got to get that office to the hot spot and i remember he just looked close as he could to the wall writings to the damage of the room to the walls and he just says yeah this is it and they really 18 hours a day for seven days straight that was January February of 2016 they came back April of that same year 2016 and stayed eight days they didn't't set back. We brought Nick Kyle with them and did it. Like I said,

another 18 hour straight days of this nonstop. Investigating. And 90% of it was in the house. 5% was outside me in the front backyard. And under. And under. I freaked out. I'm like, don't go under there.

I hate spiders. I'm not going down there. Yeah, no. And then they went to the county records office. They spent considerable time downtown city hall. The history, huh? Above land and house. They did in one hour of day one.

More than Ghosts of the Bridge did in five hours. I want people to understand this is not personal against Ghosts of theicious. I call it like I say. Yeah, of course. If you ask me a question, I'm going to give you an answer. I'm not going to be the answer you like, but I'm going to give you an answer, and it's going to be truthful. Ghosts of Vicious were there five hours. How do you know it was five hours? How do you know? Well, they told me. Before they came to visit me at TINA, they gave us an itinerary of what they're going to do. They're

going to have two teams arrive, A team and B team. The B team arrives first because they're the one doing the B roll, the footage, the interviews. They arrive Monday and they stay until Wednesday. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. And they probably did, I'm talking about the B team, they probably did 14 hours a day. The B team did. Joseph Ventures, Zach and Coop, arrived Thursday. Arrived Thursday, leave Thursday. That was it.

So they came in, did a little interview, and then they did the lockdown. And the lockdown, it says on their deal, 500, they're in and out. So I saw that, I was like, which was the investigative part? And then I said, oh, on their deal, five hours. They're in and out. So I saw that. I was like, which was the investigative part? And then I said, oh, five hours.

Oh. Yeah. It's almost like Ghost Adventures, and correct me if I'm wrong, was just looking for a quick release of an episode or two. And it was more of a show versus these investigators that actually came in that are getting down to the core of it yeah they responded and let me just give people a little bit of backstory of how those adventures i even met so those adventures caught wind of our story we didn't we didn't reach out to them they found us the local news had learned of the bottle house that the bible's

catching fire and sent a reporter to our home. And the reporter interviewed me. This is on the internet. You can see this interview. Scared the reporter to death because she heard the loud banging and she was out of there. Oh, poor lady. Yeah, I saw her. I saw that interview. She was pretty like,

what? What was that? You were like, it was them. I was in. That was it. I looked at her cameraman's face during our interview, because I could see his face as she's talking to me. He was done. But she told me, she said,

hey, especially after hearing the loud bangers. So I'm a friend of Dre. I know Dave Schrader. I'm like, who's Dave Schrader? So I'm just gonna send him your email. I'm gonna call him. Dave Schrader called me the next day. And we talked maybe five or 10 minutes.

And then Ghost Adventures was there in like two and a half, three weeks. You know, Steve Mara and Don Phillips, when they came in January and April of 2016, they had already been interviewing me September, October of the previous year. Okay. It took them five months, six months to even agree to come to my house

because they were putting me through countless interviews, evaluations, mental, psychological, see how my story was straight, see if I would change it from time to time. Steve would interview me some days, Don would. And sometimes they would just catch me at different hours of the day. I didn't know what they were doing, but they knew what they were doing. They were just trying to see, am I on the level? And then they made the determination after their assessment, okay, we're going to come.

Here's the days we're going to be there. And I can tell you this. It was never a question of them living in the house. The question is, why wouldn't you want to live in the house? Nikki Lavelle and her team lived in the house for a month. It just came to the table. I got five bedrooms. Which one do you want?

This is their profession. One was the president of the Scottish Society of Parapsychology. This is their study. This is their study. This is what they do day in and day out. This is their study. This is their study. This is what they do day in and day out. They have a methodology. I seem to like because it got

results. One of the things Steve says in his interview, even in his own book, was when we got there, we got to Keith's house, we come there with a methodology or a mindset of how we want to conduct our investigation. However, we have to allow ourselves some wiggle room because we have to adapt to the poltergeist.

So what made Steve and Don realize that they're dealing with an elusive poltergeist, meaning one that's coy, that's a trickster out of a trickster, was the day their cameras, not mine, got turned around. The day they saw their cameras facing this way and then come back it's facing that way, they knew they were dealing with an elusive spirit. And they said, we have to change our methodology because now we know what we're dealing with. And they did, they did pivoted very easily and then allowed them to get different results that

others never never got because people always ask why didn't those people get anything well i said well it's all kind of reason why they didn't get anything number one they were not there long enough right right exactly like mandy was saying all of it's documented it's not something you have to go dig for it's out there you can go and look at it look at it, listen to it. I've watched several documentaries with you. I've watched the Ghost Adventure one because I wanted to see every angle. I watched the one that's called Estate or something like that. It was on Travel Channel. Yeah, okay.

Yeah, I watched that one. And then I watched the Demons in Seattle Uncovered. And then I was like, ah, there you go that was good yeah that just shows the comprehensive steps of what they did and it coincides with the 60 plus page report if you read that of what they found the evps going underneath the house remember dog goes into the woods you know yeah out there and i'm like, don't do that. Oh my God. Yeah, and me being there watching,

I'm sort of nervous because I'm going, you're under my house. I'm like, man, what did we do? I'm not like, I don't think the ghost is going to kill him or anything. I'm just like, he's still under our house, right? He's still under our house. Yeah, he did a lot. He did a lot.

Keith, I respect so much the amount of time and research you have put into this as well. I mean, this wasn't something you chose. You know, you can tell that this really affected your life. You went as far as even reaching out to the people that lived in the home before. Have you reached out to the people that live there now? So full disclosure, the people who live there now is the husband and the wife, no kids. They know the house is haunted. It's impossible not to. I don't think they know the degree of which it's haunted. They do know it was haunted. They do know the house's future don't go submitted but they took the house anyway i've never met them the less they know the better i said if i go poking around the house

saying are you having activity and we struck up a conversation and i and i reveal some of the things we have because i know me if i lived in a house you knock on my door and i sort of know it's haunted but i don't care if it's in my life but you come knock on my door and the minute you leave right back into my house and my wife you know it's gonna be on my mind the first yeah you're like uh-uh now you noticing it you probably are just like you know what I might hear from them I might hear from them depending on how long they stay I'm sort sort of like the biggest tenant, right? Rather than come looking for me. Yeah.

You know, if they find me, fine. I'm not hard to find, obviously. Yeah. So if y'all come looking for me, then I'll make myself available. I'm like, oh, yeah. But poking around the house, nobody's... I know. If you go looking for the darkness in that house, it will oblige you.

It will be like, hey, you over here. You can't turn that faucet off. You cannot turn it off. So what about in your current home? Did you bring anything with you? I've moved twice now. This is 2021. I moved out in 2016.

First place I moved to was a two-bedroom condo. I had to phantom water puddles, the puddles dripping from a dry ceiling. Objects still will teleport, ask for an airport, whatever. Items still disappear. I still see the shadowy figures. The heartbeats in the mattress, the mattress indentations, that increased after a little bit. And it still happens to this day, as recent as this morning or last night. Occasionally out and about with friends, especially if I'm on a date.

Keith, I think this spirit wants you, is in love with you and doesn't want you to have a relationship. It's your girlfriend it's trying to it's trying to scare off all your girls because this spirit wants you to itself try not to dwell on it but i i have the data to support that theory on the sense of maybe five of the women i've previously dated they still experience activity if not with me or in their home environment soon after meeting me a lot of women nowadays um you know and guys to google their potential online to see you know if he's catfishing or some syrup or whatever and finally it comes up as the bockle hill house guy so they i't answer the question

that was asked to me. They're like, yeah, Google the man. What's his haunted house stuff about? Some think it's cool. Some think it's out of here and I don't blame them.

Yeah. But the ones who think it's cool, I find I'll have activities soon after. What about the landlord? Have you ever, like, picked his brain? Did he invite this darkness in?

What's the story on his purchase? Is he still married? Did he ever live in it? Interesting question. So the homeowner was one of the first persons I went to when we started having the phenomena, right? I says, hey, what's going on? And you're right. It's a newly built home. Him and his wife, I don't know if they have kids, but I know he's married. When I went to him to talk about the activity, as well as to get Ghost Adventures permission to enter the home, I was expecting him to throw me and Tina out the house. Because by then, after the news reporter aired the story,

the whole West Coast picked up that story. That story went viral. And they talked about the Bible burnings. They talked about the fires. And I thought he was going to come over there and say, get out of my house, y'all vandalizing my house, y'all, you guys are crazy. He did not, he did the opposite, so I said, hey, we have some activity, da-da-da-da-da, did you ever have anything? Oh, no, no, never had anything. I said, any previous tenant

ever have anything? He said, no, no, not that I know of. The one answer that got me was I told him what we were having and I told him what we were going to do to rip the home of the activity. And he said, you have my blessing. I'll paraphrase it, but he said, you said you have my blessing. And he said something that I really didn't volunteer information for, or how else he he could have known this he said it's probably some lost and confused spirits in that house that need to be excised out whoa and he said but if you want to go ahead and get them out of there go for it he said, there's probably some loss of confused spirits in that house. And I was like, oh, that's an interesting answer. Okay.

And he never came to the house. We moved in the house in May 2012. I moved out of the house May 2016. The only two times the homeowner came to that house, he didn't even come to the house when Joseph was there. He didn't even come to the house when Steve Meredith He didn't even come to the house when Steve Merritt and Cammy lived in there for two weeks,

or when Nikki lived in there for a month and her team. He only came to the house was May to give me and Tina the keys and to sign the papers in May, 2016 to take away the key and walk us out the house or walk me out the house that's the only two times i haven't seen him in four years we maybe talked several times i've invited him he never came to see for himself and it was just weird that he said there's probably some spirits in there that need to be exercised do i know without a doubt i don't know if he did anything to bring them there I don't know all I know is he never visited the home even when things would break down don't you think that's weird I mean just think about if it was your home if it was my home I

would like to think I would want to just come in and see for myself. That's something. I mean, we're talking fire department came to the house, put out two fires. Okay. Yeah, right. And it's on national news. National news. And then when the team came and they didn't find that, then I thought he really was going to put us out but he doubled down and was like when I told him about Steve and Don

he's going to say no to that but he was very down to yeah that's strange but had I been an owner I know I would have came to the album but he never met a repair guy there what he would do is like hey you something's on the

fridge you repair it fix it and just take it out of your mouth's way he never came to the house I appreciate you coming on and sharing your story I just feel like a lot of what we do is we share these stories so that we people don't feel alone in what they're going through you know and so many times when people are having experiences they don't want to in what they're going through, you know, and so many times when people are having experiences, they don't want to share because they're scared that people are going to think they're nuts. And I think the more that we share our experiences, the more it becomes accepted because this is real, you know, I mean, you can come over to my house, I guarantee, maybe not in five hours, but if you come over consistently you're gonna you're definitely gonna feel some stuff i mean i have stories we all have stories like almost daily but and i'm

scared now because right now i'm like casper the friendly ghost and so i'm like oh shit i hope it don't shift on me yeah that's what we hope you know and i considered that i've had some people tell me even though it's not bothering you because you, you know, I'm like, it doesn't bother me. They're like, it's taking up your space and they shouldn't be there. You didn't invite them to be there. Right. And for me, even now, we're never alone. Just because there's no activity doesn't mean that something's not happening.

There's things I hear and see. I just don't focus or dwell on it it's a certain level attention level we did an investigation last year at my house it was shocking i mean we got about 45 minutes worth of the spirit box um conversations you could tell i mean that it was intelligent we straight up were having conversations you know we were getting answers we did a whole episode on it but i mean it just for me to talk to even you right now is comforting to know that there's so much validation and like the stuff i've experienced we're not alone i get emails from all over the world of similar stories, some less, some even more. I mean, there are people that put my story to shame. No way. Yeah. And they're going through it now or recently. And I was like, man, I can imagine. But I know I'm not the top of the paranormal pyramid but I know things are extreme

in my case and yes the husband and wife or a girlfriend and boyfriend or somebody who lived at home by themselves or and all over the world every continent I mean they find me they find this story I get most of my emails after the Demons of Seattle episode has aired or re-aired or rerun. And I know it's a story when it comes in the middle of the night. An email comes in the middle of the night of somebody. Yeah. Or they've seen the story. Or they watched the documentary on YouTube.

And they're like, yeah, I'm having the same thing. Yeah. You know? And they're frantic. They're like, let the wits in. And if I can get them to a parapsychologist or somebody i i try to um but sometimes it's just good to just have somebody know that you're not alone yeah and stories because you're right it's just you know i'm not crazy

you know why is this happening now you know I was like what it is always very validating because my daughter my oldest daughter and I anyways are always very in sync with what we're experiencing so she sees a tall guy I'm like I saw a tall guy too you know and my daughter and I even have the same dreams a lot too we go to this place it's definitely not on earth you know it's off planet somewhere and so we and we describe it to the t i've had those dreams where i'm not in my home anymore i'm somewhere else i'm in another time period yeah it's like it's like i've been sat in a room watching a movie right watching a real life movie but it's not a movie it's something i'm in somebody else's home yeah and i think i

don't have i'm still you know jotting down notes i think what i'm seeing when i'm in these dream states or whatever i think i'm given a glimpse of where they've been previously or where they're currently at. Oh, okay. Some of the things I see are so vivid. Yeah. Like one time they showed me another house that they were haunting. Okay. They made me be the fly on the wall, no pun intended, but the fly on the wall of watching their, it was horrid.

They're like, no, you no you're gonna watch just watch they told me they go from house to house as easy as you and i go from room to room yeah i mean house to house i don't mean house next door they go from house to house meeting yeah to wherever they can go wherever i believe that i believe do. I too, I think that, and I think my daughter has as well, I think we've both kind of had dreams that are intermixed with the spirits here in this house as well. Okay. The whole scenario of a father, a mother who is mental ill and a child and the father and the child are often together it's like almost like we're putting together this and then i get scared because i have heard that you can create a poltergeist

with the story yeah they did that study in canada and they did that and i'm like i don't want to you know create by assumption well it's gonna energy there is definitely something more than everything we can physically see we are energy beings as well and energy doesn't die do you believe the more people when they die can't let go the harder they have

passing through this realm science tells us that 99.99% of reality the human eye can't see, we can't perceive. We're only given a glimpse, I mean I'm talking about our senses right, our eyes, but there's a whole bunch of it. We don't see in the microwave right, we don't see in the emphasize. We don't see how you and I are talking right now. I mean no one ever talks about that. Yeah we don't see how that really looks like. So there's a whole bunch of things going on right now. My screen and the camera that's

picking me up. There's a whole lot of things going on. Well, I'm glad that you've put your story out there. I think that it's brave of you. I think it says a lot of who you are, you know, to continue to, to prove that you guys weren't nuts and to share it with everyone else to help other people know that they aren't either. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's why I did it. Number one, to clear our name and number two, let people know that you can talk about this stuff. There's a niche community out there and this information is gonna be valuable years from now. Yeah.

You gotta do what's in the reviews, what's to analyze it. And that's why I did it, put so much documentation. How many books? You wrote three books on it? books i wrote three but there are eight books about the bottle house i've read by other people you know steve mara has a very good one a few other researchers of course we're still coming through the data there's so much audio and video files so if they write a movie if they make a movie, if they make a movie, which you know they always do movies about all these houses, who would you want to play you?

Like a Denzel or something? Who are you thinking? Oh, man. Who would I want to play me? You know what? Michael B. Jordan or Denzel's son. You know, Denzel's son. Oh, yes. Okay.zel's son. You know, Denzel's son. Oh, yes.

Okay. Or his son. Okay. Denzel's too old, but Denzel's son would be perfect. Or Michael B. Jordan, you know. Yeah, I like that. I like that. You've been such a pleasure.

I really enjoyed you. It's been worth the wait. And now it's time for Break That Shit Down. Also, my advice to anyone listening to this story is hopefully they never encountered this, but if you do, or should you encounter this, number one, develop a support system. Find a good group of friends, family members, who you trust, who will believe you, and rely on them. When you find information on the internet on what to do, weigh it heavily.

A lot of misinformation, disinformation, of how to deal with the paranormal. It's not as easy as they say it is on TV. And it can have crazy repercussions that you're not prepared to deal with. Good example, the Bothell House. And then also research, your downtime research, reading other cases, if you have the time, the bandwidth to do that. And if you have to get out, get out. There's nothing wrong with cutting your losses, getting out,

cutting me and Tina in the home for so long, me especially. We didn't have any kids. We didn't have any pets. I viewed it as me making a stand. If I had to do it over again, I would definitely do it differently, but I would not leave.

But nothing wrong with leaving. Nothing wrong, especially if you've got other lives involved, cut your losses, and get out, but definitely, my friends saved me. My friends and family saved me, as well as Tina's friends, and we had a good backup system of people who knew we were telling the truth, and you want those people in your corner, and you want them right away, so that's what I would tell people. And where can everybody get your books and learn more and find that and find all of that evidence we were talking about earlier yeah so all three books are on amazon both in kindle and paperback versions you can find keith linder just type in keith linder on amazon uh Three books, The Bothell Hell House, part one, Attachments, Portuguese and

Washington State is part two. My new book is called Portuguese, The Night Side of Physics, and that's on as well. Anybody and everybody should watch the documentary, Demons in Seattle Uncovered. That's free. That's on YouTube. You can Google that now. An hour and 20 minutes in HD. You'll love that, anybody. And get the books. There are the evidence, meaning there are links, audio, video, movies,

previous tenant testimony, and all three books. It's a treasure trove of data and information. And my email's in all three books, so I like to give emails to people and answer questions that I didn't get around to answering in all three books. We're proud of every email sent by White Sea.

There you go. Thank you so much, Keith. It's been a pleasure. Yeah, it was good. Glad we caught up again. Awesome. Hey, did you know that Sense of Soul now has a Patreon where you can get exclusive episodes,

mini series that Mandy and I have been working on for a long time that we can't wait to share with you, monthly readings, Sense of Soul sacred circles, workshops, behind the scene clips, and much more. Hop on Sense of Soul Patreon right now and sign up thanks for being with us today we hope you will come back next week if you like what you hear don't forget to rate like and subscribe thank you we rise to lift you up thanks for listening