Sense of Soul - The Dilemma’s of Awakening

Episode Date: April 16, 2021

Mande and Shanna learned so much from their conversation with the wise Dr. Rosie Kuhn who joined us from Orcas Island, she is a well respected transformational coach and author of 13 self help books. Her most recent publication focuses on the path to enlightened living, called “I’ve Arrived! Well, Sort Of: 101 Discoveries and Revelations Stumbled Upon While On the Sacred Path To Who Knows Where”.  The path to enlightened living is not drawn out right in front of us. It does not miraculously appear overnight, or after one exclusive spiritual realization. Psychologist and Transformational Coach, Dr. Rosie Kuhn’s path is no different. Her path began with a commitment to explore the outer fringe of thriving, and it ends, who knows where!  As Dr.Rosie moves toward enlightenment, many discoveries and revelations have stopped her in her tracks. Only through deep conviction, training, and practice is she able to align herself with her highest truth. Through storytelling her own experiences, Dr. Rosie teaches how exercising and experimenting with incremental leaps of faith can allow for the extraordinary to occur. Not only for her, but for you too. “I trained myself to see me the way God sees me, and I stopped seeing me as my ex-husband sees me, or any one else who rejected me, abandoned me, or betrayed me.” -Dr Rosie Kuhn Order this book it’s awesome! https://www.theparadigmshifts.com YouTube Spiritual Dilemmas Check out our website, get 50% off the Self love tool kit! www.mysenseofsoul.com  Please check out our book club last chance to join for our spring book!  

Welcome to the Sense of Soul podcast. We are your hosts, Shanna and Mandy. Grab your coffee, open your mind, heart and soul. It's time to awaken. Today on Sense of Soul, we are super excited to have Dr. Rosie Kuhn, who is an international life and business coach, trainer and speaker. She resides on Orcas Island in the San Juans with her sweet dog, Grace. She's the author of many, many books that we're going to talk about today. She has documented her amazing journey through her awakening in her new book called I've Arrived, Sort Of. We are definitely excited to have you. And one of our most popular episodes was about awakening. So today we'd love to talk a lot about that with you. And it seems that our listeners are craving more of that.

So perfect timing. Well, you're so welcome. I love hanging out with people of like-mindedness, like-heartedness, like-spiritedness. So thank you for being able to do this with me. A super fun book, a great read. I almost felt like it was like a daily devotional, like every day you could read one and then journal on it. I didn't start writing books until I was 55. So I'm a late, late bloomer. And I've got three or four books in this series, the 101 series. None of them were meant to be daily devotionals. They were just meant to be little snippets that would catch people and they could sit with or savor, like you're saying, maybe daily.

But it was just meant to be, here's a truth. The first book I wrote like that was called, You Know You're Transforming When? And that was 101 insights and things like that. And that came automatically. That came within like three hours. I had 101 done. It just like the download, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not kidding. And that was such a surprise, but it was such a delight at the same time. So that people are finding them as daily devotionals is pretty, I'm touched, you know, even Mandy and you saying, Hey, I read this and it's like, Oh my God. And it's like, Oh my God, you read it. It's like, I'm touched. So thank you for that.

Let's see. There's I've arrived. You know, you're transforming when the other, the other two are in that series is if only my mother had told me, or maybe I wasn't listening. That's 101 pearls of wisdom. I didn't get, I love it. And then the fourth one is called me capital capital M-E, which stands for miraculous existence. And that is about what I did in therapy.

And I was a therapist. So it's like, we're supposed to get lots of good stuff in therapy. And we do. But this stuff, the spiritually oriented, more human element, I didn't get there. So that's what that book is about. So that's called me. So those are those four. Mandy and I had the same therapist and she was amazing as well. I had three therapists in a row, right? The first one served her purpose. And then, and then when she left, I was like, no. And then the second one and she left and I'm like, oh my gosh, I have to start all over. But my third one actually was the one who had first used the term empath with me.

She said, let's not call yourself codependent anymore. And I'd really like you to look up the word empath because that's kind of what I'm thinking. And the more you're calling yourself codependent, really the more you are codependent. That was an excuse for everything. I'm codependent. But I loved that she was the one who did that. And so I do kind of see a paradigm shift, which you talk about a lot in therapists and psychologists and psychology. Yeah. I trained to be a marriage and family therapist, and I worked in recovery for about eight years in Nova Scotia for the province. There was so little spirituality in my training as a therapist, but working with people in recovery, I saw that the training that they were going through, the retra retraining the reclaiming of themselves required

a leap of faith into some something greater than and that changed my life it was like they have something I want that here I'm the the big I am and the big you know masters in and I was the big I am but I had nothing compared to what they had in terms of serenity that was a big kick in the head in a good way you know and in the beginning of a more awakened that's the the place that we're talking about the awakened place of going okay now I really have a trajectory now I really have a sense of potentiality so that's really important you know I'm in recovery and I'll tell you what, Bill and Bob, I love how humble they were because they didn't, they never asked, you know, they were more about being, you know, anonymous

and man, they were some smart guys. I owe my life to them for that program and those 12 steps. And, and I loved how you talked about those 12 steps, you know, surrendering. And what does surrender mean to you, Rosie? You know, we think it's really hard to surrender. And sometimes it is, but when it's hard, it just means we're not ready yet, if you will. When I could see, and this is a really big part of the work I do as a transformational coach. I help people see what the higher trajectory is. You know, I don't want to suffer. I don't want to suffer. It's not a very high trajectory. Okay. In my case, I want what they've got. I want that sense of peace, that playfulness. I want that engaged connection with everybody and this and being able to be in

service. I want that okay great what do you need to surrender oh i got to give something up well only if you want that right only if you want that it's that willingness to let go of what you think you're going to lose for something that you really want and in that way there's no sacrifice at all because we're always only up leveling ourselves you know when we're playing some game i don't know what games because i don't play games on computers but we're always up leveling right and we don't go no no no no i want to stay back and begin our life good point right so we're always up-leveling. We always have this capacity to awaken to the next level, to up-level ourselves. And part of it is that choosing and empowering ourselves and being supported by all of those

who are supportive, like you guys, or our higher powers as in therapists or our higher powers as in the divine or what is unseeable. But there's also the empowered part of us that says, yes, I can make that change. Yes, I can think differently. Yes, I can train myself to do something different. We're up-leveling our ideas and our way of thinking so that we can see the more masterful elements that somebody planned in this game, right? Somebody planned in this game right somebody made this game yeah somebody made this game then I can create the capacity to meet them there and that's game of life is really lovely yeah totally so you know Mandy and I came into our spiritual journey

in our awakening different ways as most people do. But a lot of people do come through pain, pain to purpose, pain, you know, myself, I would say that I came into mine when I discovered self-love for myself. But in order to do that, I had to drop a lot of conditions, generations of conditions in order to experience that raw self-love for myself. And Mandy, you can tell her how you did. I'd be curious to find out how that came for you. How did yours come about? I'm so dramatic and I had to like actually die a couple times to awaken literally yeah so um mine was through on two near-death experiences and recovery yeah just to to plug an organization that's called assist and it stands for the american center for the integration of spiritually transformative experiences so it's assist.org

and the reason i say that is because there's so many people like you who've had near-death experiences or other spiritually transformative experiences, but don't know how to integrate them and they just feel weird. And so this organization assist.org was created so that they could get help from therapists, coaches, ministers, those kinds of people to get some direction and a sense of clarity. I can't tell you how relieved I am right now to hear about that because I have not been able to sleep lately, worried about all these people that have been intubated through COVID and are going through that trauma and have probably left their bodies at some point like I

did while I was in my coma. And then you just get pushed out back into the world. Like, thanks for saving my life. But then you don't know what to do with all of that. It's been really heavy on me. We had Dr. Evan Alexander on a couple of days ago, and I know he threw out a couple of organizations, but I have not heard of this one. So again, thank you for throwing that out there because I wish that I would have had that. I was lost for you for throwing that out there because I wish that I would have had that. I was lost for years. It's crazy making because you had this amazing experience and nobody believes you and nobody wants to hear it. Nobody can, they don't know

how to deal with that. So assist a C I S T E.org. I mean, that would have been a lifesaver. And that is just the thing. That's why we created sense of soul because back when there was nothing I could probably find two articles if that on empaths of the time actually back then and they were very helpful thank god but really I mean it's a very confusing period and that's actually was one of my questions I had for you, because how does one actually awaken and have like a normal life? Because I know for myself, we went through pain, physical pain, lots of emotions, not grounded at all at the time. You know, those are all things that had to come with the journey as you're able to accept it. And I did a podcast series called Spiritual Immersion, Taking the Plunge. And it's really about those experiences where we think, oh, spirituality, it's going to be light and happy and awesome. And everything's infinitely

pleasing when you wake up. It's like no effing way. that's that's evolves and comes about but that dark night of the soul or that sense of craziness or the sense of dark abyssness as a client of mine says the abyssness of that it's like what the you know because we don't have a context that holds the whole process. My journey started when I was about 17 and I had a breakup with a boyfriend and I prayed to God and said, make this better. And nothing happened. And I went again, what the F? And nothing seems to be helping.

I was in a lot of pain. I was isolated. My parents, there was no place to talk or anything like that. So I just went in and it was dark and scary and suicidal. And I pulled myself through it. I don't know how I did that, but that was sort of that going through it, but not having a clue. And then in my thirties, another breakup with a boyfriend, it's all about breakups for me. That breakup took me to another deep, dark dive that was much like what you're saying. The physical agony of that was so intense.

And I could work. I could go. I was a therapist at the time. I could go to work. I'd see my client. I'd go in the bathroom and I'd cry and fall apart. And then I'd go and see another client. In my thirt 30s where I saw what client my clients were doing they were no longer seeking that serenity outside themselves they couldn't because it wasn't happening they got smart by the way they would wait that doesn't work I need the fellowship I need the community I need that connection with like-minded people so that we can continue to support and empower each other to not do that but it's that both and and a bit of a dilemma because our people who are in a sense dependent or you know addicted

almost to those 12-step programs because they are they they want that fellowship and that connection at the same time they are learning to to individuate and find their own sense of serenity from the inside out. But I had three specific deep, dark processes. And the last was when I was about 55. It was about 11 years ago. when I had the consciousness in which you guys are really creating is the conscious evolution, the awareness of here's what happens and here's what it's like. Here's the painful elements. Here's the abyssness. Here's the upness. Here's the delight. Here's the connection and community. And the more that we do that, then the more people go, i can this is scary but other people are doing it for me

i'd have to go oh what what big gurus did it or what big spiritual teachers did this oh i can if they did it i could do it why not right but when it becomes more every day more normal to be doing this and we're all doing it we just don't know it, then it's more of a community, and we know where to reach out to each other to get that support and listen and go, oh yeah, they know this place. And Mandy, that both of you, in a sense, are mentioning that element of recovery in the 12-step program. I think those 12 steps are so fundamental in an almost 90, I'll say 99% of my clients, if not more, I work in a recovery model and the 12 steps because, because there's those places where we feel powerless and we go, I can't feel that way.

I can't admit I'm powerless. It's like, that's the, that's the beginning of the true. We're talking about surrendering, surrendering that I'm not powerless is a big thing to surrender because we are. We're powerless over people, places and things. And the more that we can admit some of those things, the greater and the easier it is to, I think, begin that awakening process and move into it and be excited about it no matter

how painful it is I love that how you remind us that it's not just the gurus and the big names and because me Mandy and I I always said if I could do if anyone can do it you know we're just two suburban mothers that are just sharing our stories so that other suburban mothers and other people and fathers and everything in between don't feel alone because it could be a very lonely place absolutely especially when you're questioning everything you were taught everything that you were told to believe all of a sudden is up for negotiation right there's a book that I use and have worked with for about 10 years. Among a couple of the other books, this is my go-to. It's called Oneness by Rasha. Rasha channeled this book. This is a channeled book. But I've been working with this book and working with it and working on it. And it really is such a catalyst for me in so many ways.

And the reason I bring it up right now, one of the things it says in chapter two, at the beginning, is we are here to completely reject consensus reality, we are here to completely reject consensus view of reality, and when we do that, then it's like exactly what you're saying, it's like, what, how do we, what's's left if that if we take away that what's left and that's the exploration that's the journey but we don't have to do it all at once right we don't have to take the whole bath and the baby and the soap and the sponge and throw it out it's like what can I see that doesn't work for me in this moment that I can shift and my relationship my my marriage in a sense a second marriage when I was it's like 2010 I could see the writing on the wall of where it was going to go in terms of ending

because I could see how I had to let go of a dynamic pattern of myself that was feeding the negativity in the relationship. Look what I'm doing. And if I really look at this, this relationship is going to end. If I don't look at this, this is that dilemma that I'm always talking about. The YouTube video channel I'm on, Spiritual Dilemmas, is about that dilemma. If I don't look at this this relationship is going to continue as it is it will not grow it will not change it will not thrive i will not thrive but if i look at it and really own it it's going to dissolve and that's why i called my youtube channel spiritual dilemmas because every question like that is a dilemma.

If I do this, this is going to change. If I don't do it, nothing's going to change and I'm going to suffer. I'm going to keep being in that state of suffering, settling and surviving. You've got to make a choice. It's a choice making. And that's the empowering place is like, wow, don't like this, but I'm not ready for that. Okay. And that's with everything that's with everything it's with everything yeah not just in relationships

and you know and we've been doing that forever just deciding not to see it because it's either too painful or disappointing it's a dilemma that's right I mean did you ever feel like you wanted to just close your eyes again because I felt that way once my eyes had opened once I had awakened or disappointing. It's a dilemma. That's right. I mean, did you ever feel like you wanted to just close your eyes again? Because I felt that way. Once my eyes had opened, once I had awakened, once that veil came off, I was like, oh no, everything is terrible around me. Everyone's, you know, no, the whole world. And I was like, oh God, it would rather much just not look. Yeah. Let's just not look. It's hard to see things as they are. Shanna, why do you think people that have had near death experiences long so much to go back

to where they were, which sounds so wrong because you're so grateful to be alive, but your soul literally aches to go back to that presence of that divine love. Because when you come back and see things differently, you're like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. I hate this. Yes. In the assist program, you know, we hear stories of people who've had experiences. And this one woman, I think she was East Indian. And she said she had this near-death experience and then came back and she was so angry

because she said it's like being taken in a person from india being taken to disneyland and having the happiest place on the world in the you know in the universe and then you're dropped back down in the dung heap that's what it was like for her it was so excruciating to be amidst all of this pain and agony in the world yeah jesus i think he's a pretty wise guy you know he said be in this world but not of it and that directs us to this place of being able to go okay there's so much suffering in the world i am aware of that suffering i'm doing this because it's like so much suffering in the world. I am aware of that suffering. I'm doing this because it's like so much anguish to see the suffering and experience this.

And this is what Buddha says. It's like, when you've got compassion, you can feel the suffering of other people, but you can still be distant from, you can separate yourself from that. But you're aware of that ache of other people, the anguish of other people. And that's what Jesus was saying is be in this world,

but know yourself to have the ability to, in a sense, in the awakening process to uplift yourself so that you're more aware of what am I doing here? And what are each of us doing here? Oh yeah, I'm here to grow myself. I'm here to up-level myself over and over again. It's that place of like, oh my God, what am I doing here in the world of it? And now, now how do I shift my perceptions and beliefs so that I can do that? In the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous, they tell you that you, you look around and you listen for your first couple of meetings. you don't say anything. You just listen and just be. And then if someone talks and you continue to hear them come up and you want what they have, then that's your person to go to, to be your sponsor. And it's the same in this. I want to tell our listeners, it's the same. If you see someone and you want what they have,

that's your tribe. That's your new tribe. and if you're going through this awakening and it's confusing and it's sad and you're in that place of anger that's what Rosie and Shannon and I are we're your tribe and if you if you see someone you want what they have don't be scared because you're giving them a gift by asking them to help you. And you know, how do we deal with that though, Rosie? I would like to awaken everybody on this planet. I want to shake them sometimes and say, no, open your eyes, but you can't, you can't save the world. And I knew I figured out that because I wanted to save the world. I was trying to save the world and it was exhausting. I knew that if I just focused on myself and maybe became the light and it is true, you change yourself and everything around you changes too. But there are so many people in the world that are asleep. How do we deal with all of these

sleeping people or how can, what can we do to actually help them awaken? Or can we? My experiences and you know, the readings and all is like everybody is on their own path. Everybody is here to up-level themselves. So if everybody's gaming, we can't say, Oh, just do this, just do that because they have to have the direct experience of doing whatever. And then it's like, oh, yeah, there it is. Right. So we can support and empower people to game, if you will, in this game of life. But we can't do it for them. And you guys being you

sharing your story, saying, yeah, you can up level, level we're up leveling and that's what we're here to do is up level then people go oh okay it's just in a sense the game and if we see it that way then we just keep up leveling ourselves and the more that we up level ourselves we're creating that capacity in the world to shift it if you guys did nothing more than just this if you will or be the presence of you on the planet as you are that resonance of that love and gift and compassion and knowing is just vibrating into the world you don't have to do anything more yeah in the miracles it says you can have the kind of day you want. Just let go of all those judgments.

Just have the day you need to have. See the world that you need to have in a way of saying no lack. You know, a person who's gaming, they don't see any lack other than experience. I don't know how to do this. But if we get beyond that, I lack nothing. If I lack nothing, these are my four big principles takeaways from the course of miracles if i if i lack nothing then i don't need to do anything my life is complete today and if that's true now what and that then the fourth piece is i will be told what

to do and i do you find that true for you guys that you're always told what to do sooner or later we listen if we listen if we listen that's a good point you know what's funny is like I knew you were gonna go I knew you were gonna go to the course of miracles I I just had like that you know intuitive moment I was waiting I was like when's she going to I knew you were to, which is so weird because nobody else has. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I was going to say that awareness, like if I get caught up and I'm just barely getting by and I'm not practicing mindfulness, then I am not going to be listening and I won't be told what to do. So when I'm mindful and I look

for the synchronicities and the signs and to, you know, those inner thoughts and those higher self thoughts into my guides and my spirits, then absolutely. But as a human, I find that I'm so dumb because I love that space, but then I continuously will slip back into that busyness of life. But now the difference is I give myself grace and I go, it's okay. Yeah. As where before I'd beat myself up into a place of you're not good enough. So I've evolved, I've leveled up in that area. Yeah. A long time ago, I had a session with this woman who could channel a guardian angel. Now, I have no idea of her name. I don't remember anything about it. It was about 20 some years ago. And as she's talking to me or sort of channeling this guardian angel piece, and I would say, she would give me

information. I'd go, thank you. And they'd say, no, thank you. And I'd go, I'm just me. I'm just a stupid, you know, person. And, but it was over and over again that they would thank me. And I said, why are you, why are you thanking me? And they said, because you listen to us. We're talking, we're giving guidance, we're supporting, we're doing all this stuff and people don't listen to us. So we stop talking. I didn't go like, oh, isn't that great? Aren't I great? It was like, wow, that's, I mean, it was just humbling to know how hard it is for people to let go of their ego structure. We'll call it that, that small self place of fear-basedness and aren't open to the capacities of guidance and light and love that is always, always. So that was really helpful to go, God, I got to keep listening, literally, God, I have to keep listening for that and practice listening because it's so easy to

shut that down and go, oh my God, look at how sucky everything is. Look at how horrible things are. Go back into the grayness of it. And I go, nope, nope. One of the terms that oneness uses is, you know, really living into what's infinitely pleasing. And so for us to, again, in a sense, imagine up imagine up leveling into this place of what is infinitely pleasing for me you know i'd love to have a house i live in a travel trailer it's 35 feet it's it's beautiful but it's still a travel trailer right i'd love to up level to a house and that would be infinitely pleasing but it's not the house that would be that or the money that would be that it's the those are just vehicles for what is infinitely pleasing within me that experience

that we were talking about earlier of owning it for myself I'll find happiness like what we say is oh I'll be happy when I have that car or I'll be happy when I have children or when I have that dog, when I have that whatever. It's not that anymore. It's OK. And when it's not that anymore, I'm here in my trailer being infinitely pleased with my life. So it's that challenge again, that dilemma of don't I want more money? Don't you? You know, don't I want this? Don't I want that? It's like, yes. And if I follow that from the external desires, it's chasing it as opposed to having it and being it. And what we're all moving towards is moving away from having it, which is very low vibration. I have to have it. I have to have it. I have to, if I'm not, I don't have it. I'm going to die to doing it like jobs or whatever to being it. And the more that we awaken, the more we're able

to be it versus seeking it. And that's for me, really fun to practice the being it. That's so interesting. I love the words you use and how you describe it because lately my soul has been just seeking to go somewhere more in nature than these suburban neighborhoods because I just find so much peace and serenity with more nature and birds. And I've always just had this connection and it's not that I have to have it. It's that I actually want to be it for the first time. I want to be that nature. I want to raise my little daughter to be that nature.

It's the first time I've ever thought about moving, which is insane because I've moved way too many times. Not because I want something better or bigger. It's because it aligns with who I want to be. Beautiful. Beautiful. Mandy, that's awesome. I live on Orchid Island. I've been there and it is so amazing. But I live on 10 acres. So even though I live in a travel trailer, I have 10 acres of land, which is again, that difference

between having and being, right? That beingness immersed in this experience is so much more valuable than what the dwelling looks like how can we be content and just be is it the connection with what pleases you infinitely as humans especially americans we always want more we always feel like we don't have enough and and all these things but yet my even having infinite money won't necessarily make you happy like whatever maybe you spend the money on you know like going on vacations or buying 10 acres right but the money itself is really not infinitely pleasing the money is just the vehicle the job is just the vehicle when people come to me for coaching and they say what I work around on I'll give you guys in your in your audience the four questions you

can do these four questions you can coach yourself to a large degree first question is what do you want and people say I want more money or I want a better job or I want a boyfriend or I want a husband or I want whatever we want, want a house. Okay, great. What will you have when you have that house? And they'll go, well, I'll have this. And I'm like, well, what's the quality of the experience? Like, how are you being in that place of infinite, what's infinitely pleasing about having that? And now they can embody that. Now we're experiencing that state of being that is infinitely pleasing. Now we're experiencing that sense of love or connection or expansion or delight or playfulness or innocence or creativity, right? Now we're in it, right? That's the state of being. So that's the first question that I ask people. It's like, what do you want? They want that state of being, but they think it's in the money. They think it's in the doing of, you know, if I do

this, this, this, they think that that state of being resides in that. But when we get, and this is what we started out by saying is how do you get to that place of practicing that state of being? The first question then, or the second question would be what's in the way of having that state of being, the first question then, or the second question would be, what's in the way of having that state of being? Well, I think I need to have the money. Well, I think my mother said I wanted this. Or if I disappoint my mother doing this,

or if I do that, my husband or my children will. All of those interpretations. It's like, here's what I want. And then the second question is, what's in the way of that. And people will go, here's what's in the way. Here's what's in the way. Here's what's in the way. Here's what's in the way. 90% of it, 99% of it is right here. It's our interpretations and our judgments and assessments. Third question is what needs to shift? Pretty simple, right? Pretty simple. Here's what I want. I want this state of being. When we think about Christmas, what do we want?

That state of being. We don't care if it's, if we get, if somebody gives us this most beautiful thing, we're having the experience of receiving this beautiful, somebody got me, right? I love that feeling that somebody got me. That's what I want. It could be a poem, just that they showed up or they called or I texted. That's that sense I got it. So that quality of experience is what we're all wanting. What's in the way of that? And what needs to shift to eliminate those obstacles? And when we start to do that, we start to see, oh, if I let this go, I start to align with my higher truth. I get to know what my higher truth is. Even for people to say, here's what I want, there's an awakening. Because a lot of people won't let

themselves know what they want. They'll say, well, this is what my mother wants. This is what my husband wants. This is what my children want. What needs to shift? Not what will husband wants this is what my children want what needs to shift not what will i shift that what has to shift but what what needs to shift so that i can actually have this embodied experience of this fullness it's there's no there's it's neutral question it's just a matter of linear pragmatics right but the fourth question is what will i practice what will you practice now david hawkins who's another one of my favorite teachers. So the three biggies are big is the oneness, A Course in Miracles, and David Hawkins' work. And I've been working with a book of his lately called Healing and Recovery. If you haven't, Mandy, if you haven't seen it, it's phenomenal.

But if you haven't, it's amazing. It's a real culmination of all of his work as far as i'm concerned what he says is it's just the most simplest thing there's nothing to do and and again this course of miracles there's nothing to do you need do nothing you will be told what to do right that's the the message in the course of miracles david hawkins says stop doing what doesn't work. Stop doing what isn't in alignment with your highest truth, your highest knowing. You don't have to know what to do. And that's why most of us stop awakening, because we don't know what to do we don't know the caterpillar doesn't know how to make a cocoon you know it doesn't know how to it doesn't know anything but it stops doing that cocoon uh that caterpillar thing it just stops doing that caterpillar thing and starts doing something else and and again in the the analogy of the gaming it's like stop thinking like the beginner and start thinking differently but we don't know how to do that but just stop thinking that way stop thinking that I have to do this to get that

that's part of that consensus view of reality I have to stop stop believing that if I be something else people will love me my daughter loves daughter loves, she's 44. She loves listening to Tony Robbins and Brene Brown. And that offends me personally. I like Shame Shields by Brene Brown, but I do like that book by her. I've never actually listened to Tony Robbins. Okay. But the funny thing is, so I'm not saying anything about them because they're awesome. Right. But when she likes them, what does that say about me? Cause she's not listening to my podcast. So it's being willing to look at that though and say, okay, I think I'm less because my daughter listens to them and not to me. And she'll go'll go mom you've got your own audience like

I'm not your audience you're great you're not my guru basically these are my gurus it's like okay great but my heart and my what I'm attached to in having her approval or having her this is the having piece right it it's like okay I gotta stop that because it's not in alignment with my highest truth my highest knowing and my it's not in alignment with my highest contribution so i don't have to do anything different but just stop doing what doesn't work yoda says train yourself to let go of what you're afraid to lose train yourself to let go of what you're afraid to lose. Train yourself to let go of what you're afraid to lose. So I use that all the time, but the most important thing, and this comes up over and over again in the book I've arrived, which is the newest book, is I have trained myself and trained myself and

trained myself to let go of what doesn't work. Those perceptions, those orientations, the programmings, the patternings that I didn't even know existed 10 years ago. But because when we keep up leveling, again, like any gaming, we don't know what's up there. We don't know how to do any of that because we don't even know it exists up there yet.

And maybe the gamers don't even know the people who are creating those games. They don't even know the people who are creating those games they don't even know yet right i i absolutely love your gaming theory because it's like the most presence you can possibly experience when you're gaming you can't really go back you wouldn't want to like you said and you have no idea what's coming you know when you're talking about the training i actually took a quote from your book i, I didn't even get past the first paragraph before I actually was like, oh, I love this. I'll just read it. It says, I trained myself to see me the way that God sees me.

That's right. And like I said, here I am way into this practice, way into this process of awakening or arriving, as I put it. I've arrived. Well, sort of, because now I'm back into this my daughter loves those people and she doesn't you know so we're always always at the next level of oh here's that and that's the challenge the dilemma of always going okay this is not infinitely pleasing to have this sense of Benet Brown is better than me, right?

But that's my sense. I want to have what she has, I think. I don't know if I want that level of fame because then I lose my anonymity, right? I don't know. So I start looking at that in terms of going, I feel like I lack that. So now I'm back into that question of lack. Oh, do I really lack anything? No, I've got an amazingly beautiful life. Very simple. I have a serenity that I've worked my

lifetime to get to. But when those things come up, like, whoa, it's like, hmm, is that true? You know, and then now we look at Byron Katie's work. Is that true that I'm missing out or I lack something that I'm wanting that I believe I don't have? And so there's an up leveling of our intelligence. This has really been an important element of my work as well, is we don't utilize the intelligence that we actually have. This is, for me, the importance of having a thinking partner or a life coach that can expand one's consciousness, but expand one's intelligence by saying, you know, is that true that what she has is what you want?

Is that really true? Now I get to think about it. Now I have a thinking partner that's going to help me distinguish what does she have that I want? What do I believe I'm lacking? And if I was this, I would not feel this way. That state of being again, when I am in that state of alignment, I lack nothing. I don't need to be her. I don't even need to, you know, reference her. I like me. I like who I am.

I like my message. And it's that for every single one of us to be able to go, wait, I'm not her. I feel like I lack something because I'm not her. But the truth is I'm not honoring this life I'm not valuing this life this experience that this came in to have right yeah does that make sense I can absolutely and to revere this and find the sacred precious moment because this is what is mine. Be in this lifetime. And don't you think acceptance plays into that as well? Because as you were talking, I was thinking about like, and we've talked about this on a podcast before, that my son would go over to Shanna's house and he would just like have

these amazing deep conversations with her. And then he comes home and just walks past me and is like, what's for dinner? And I wasn't getting any of that. Now my ego could have gotten jealous, but what I did was just go, no, I've tried to have these conversations with him too. It's okay because he receives from her and, and not for me. And I'm still great. And I have a lot of the same things that to say to him that she does.

It's just just he's receiving from her and that's fine and accepting that and knowing okay you know what I'm just glad he's receiving from someone that's right and there are those who are receiving from you I've got nieces that receive from me you know that and and nephews that receive from me. And it's like, okay, she, my daughter has hers where she goes and they come to, you know, it's like everybody is open, but to acknowledge and accept there's that part of me goes, yeah, but what about me? You know, I want, you know, and, and, and appreciate and value that too, as yeah, yeah. You know, we totally get it and have some compassion for that part that wants, i want that with my

daughter you want that with your son and it's okay to want that and the acceptance that you know you may not get it and that's okay and you know this is the the importance of the serenity prayer right grant me the serenity to accept what i cannot change the courage to change the things I can what I can change is I can let go of that attachment to having it I can want it but I can let go of have the courage to let go of the attachment to having it the wisdom is the cultivating intelligence and that's the important element I think of so much of the 12-step programs is we have a capacity to increase the accessibility of intelligence versus beliefs. I'm having very psychic moments with you right now, by the way. You keep on saying things that I'm thinking, like 30 seconds, you know, have you ever done that? I do that all the time in meditations, you know, during the meditation, I'm thinking like 30 seconds you know yeah have you ever done that I do that all

the time in meditations you know during the meditation I'm thinking something and then she says that you know or whatever that's happening right now especially about the spiritual intelligence so I wanted to talk about that more which you are how do we suggest to somebody who wants to receive it what are they missing how can they get there people will say oh I want this I you know a lot of my clients will come in and say, I want this. But they're not really clear. It's like, oh, I want that. I want that spiritual thing. It's like, what will you have when you have that? So I begin to ground it, put roots on that. What is it that you want that you think you'll have if you have the

spiritual thing? And now they have to get clear about their convictions, their devotion, their sense of self, that what is it that you really want? That's everything. Yeah, that's right. I love it. People will say, Oh, I want that. What will you have? If you have that now we're getting into a serious conversation, people, Oh, you know, and they'll just kind of blow it off. It's like, okay, just blow it off. I don't, I'm not attached. You're on your journey. I love you're on your journey. I bless you on your journey and I'm on mine. So if you want what I've got, you want what Mandy's got, if you want what Shanna's, just you got to call us and say,

I want what you got. And now I know you're serious. And I'm willing to invest myself in that, whatever that means. So, but if you don't ask that question, what will you have if you get that spiritually, whatever stuff, nobody's going to really get down there unless they're in suffering suffering and in pain oh and then it's what's in your way and then what are you willing to shift and then what will you practice it doesn't it isn't what

will you willing to shift because okay because now you're you're you're asking them to commit to something you're just having a conversation oh i want the daffodils to bloom okay what what's in the way of daffodils blooming well i i haven't actually planted the bulbs yet okay right i actually have to put some dirt in a pot so that i can okay what else is in the way? I have to actually make the time to do that. Okay, great. What needs to, you know, so those are the obstacles. I don't have the pot. I don't have the bulbs. I don't have, okay, great. What needs to shift? I need to make time or whatever that is, that's still neutral. There's no commitment. There's not, what are you doing wrong? Or what's going, you know, it's like, it's just very pragmatic conversation. Takes the emotional stuff out of the way, right?

Let me ask you a question. What if what they want is for someone else? Because I've had a few people recently come to me and we had a guest on who said, you ask people what makes your heart hurt? What makes your heart break? And whatever they say is their passion. So I asked my son, Connor, what makes your heart break? And he said, the way we treat nature and the way we're destroying nature. And I said, well, then that's your soul's purpose. Now go make a life with that

as your mission. And he was like, oh my God, mom. Like he was so excited that he, you know, connected with that. But then I asked like four other people and what they wanted was for others. I want people that are suffering in pain, not to hurt. And then another one that I have a lot that comes to me is they have lost children. So they want this spiritual thing because they want to be able to feel closer and more connected to their child that they've lost on the other side. Okay. It's the same process, but we stay present to say the person asks, you ask that person and they say, I want my children to be more in alignment with their own truth, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, great. What will you have when they have this? What will you have, Mandy, when your son is living in his passion? What will you have when that's happening? I would have just happiness and peace knowing he's doing what his purpose is. Excellent. So we've now taken it off what they're about and what will it give you what do you get from them having that right right so you'll get peace and joy and fulfillment because they're living their truth yeah living closer to in connection

with it's like you get this okay great what needs to shift, Mandy, in this moment? So tiny little coaching moment. What needs to shift in you to allow your son to have more of that? Just allowing him the space to be his authentic self. Excellent. So let's just go with that. So we asked, what do you want? You go, peace, fulfillment. That's what I want. That's what I'll have when he's this. What needs to shift? I just need to make more space for that. And the third question is then what do you need to shift? And you'd said what? To my expectations and allow him that space to be his authentic self. Beautiful. So I need to shift the way that I'm doing things. I'll just sort of reiterate how do I do things. I have to watch my observations, my judgments,

be aware that I might be limiting. So I have to cultivate more awareness of how I'm being in myself that may be limiting him. Okay. So the fourth question, what will you do? What will you practice to make those shifts? I would say I'd practice impermanence. So impermanence, let's just stop there for a second. What does that actually mean to practice? What will you practice? Like, think of that incremental that I can see and know that what that means in your daily life. Okay. Allowing him to make his own decisions and choices and accepting that change when I give him that freedom to do that excellent yeah that non-attachment too great so he may do something that you don't approve of or that you resist but you can go oh oh there it is I need to that's the thing that I do that's in

the way of him having more expansive. Okay. Oh, there it is. So in this process of just those four things, here's what I want. This is what I want for him. This is what I get for me. Here's what's in the way. Here's what I need to shift.

Here's what I'll practice. Oh, that's a hard one. He's doing that. I don't know what I do. Yeah. It's always the action piece the practice piece that's so hard for us humans that's amazing dude I'm like blown away Rosie I'm just like mesmerized right now I love this because the way I was watching both of you guys talking about that what really shift was that how he was making her feel and then it ended up what she was going to do was practice not being

attached to the original feeling that she was feeling even if it's happiness or not happiness that's right she was focusing back inside into herself that's right and that's that's smart that's the everyday enlightened you know i i uh my tagline is enlightened living you know cultivating enlightened living and um in that we have to do that every day we have to do that in every moment and people go oh forget that i'm not doing that it's like okay i'm not attached you're on your path again i love you i bless you keep doing what you're doing when you're ready we got some wonderful people Shanna Mandy and others in the world who are ready to receive you when you are ready you're awesome you know we had a guest on who had the first two steps anyways as part of the

process of manifesting I mean this these these four things just right here, I mean, for everything. That's right. I may like put posters of them all over my walls. Like Mandy does little, little post-its, but I might make like posters. It's awesome. When people are whining, I'll go, what do you want? Well, I want the problem to go away. do you want what will what will you have when that problem goes away what's what you have okay go so i wanted to challenge something really fast and i think it's just it's just verbiage i'm getting um hiccuped on and i'm being i'm going to be a perfect example of actually what i'm about to say is sometimes we overthink things okay so i'm overthinking something you said sometimes people need more intelligence. I'm thinking sometimes people need

less intelligence because I believe that an awakening actually starts with just learning to be. Cause if we overthink trying to jump into this spiritual journey and awakening, we're like trying to plan it out and follow these steps. I don't know if it's the same for you, but I found when I just quieted my mind and I learned to just be, and it was okay, it all just happens. That's right. So when you overthink things, are you actually utilizing intelligence or something else? Something else, but I don't know what to call it. Ego? I don't know. Spiritual intelligence. Well, spiritual intelligence is that place that goes, oh, there's nothing to do. There's nothing to have. There's

only this moment to be. That's a spiritual intelligence. That's the utilization of intelligence, period, from my perspective. And you can't find it in a book but when we're thinking about things now we're utilizing interpretations 99 of our thinking is interpretations it is not the brilliance and the genius that is in the park period how do i know? Because I do this all the time. And I have to go, stop. This is not intelligent. You know that 80% of our thoughts are negative in thinking. Is that intelligent to keep doing that? I don't think so. 90 for 5% of what we think is repetitive. There's no intelligence in that. That is not intelligence. We are dumb. No, we really are. I think about that a lot. And, you know, I was dumb and I kept going into the, to the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous and staring at those 12 steps and

overthinking and overanalyzing. And then finally, when I just went back in desperate, you know, on the brinks of death, I sat there and I, I, I was just there and guess what? It's stuck. That's right. Stop. Yeah. Thinking, thinking, thinking. And what they're doing in that, in that consensus view of reality is the stinking thinking 90%, 95% of what they're doing in that in that consensus view of reality is the stinking thinking 90 95 of what we're thinking is repetitive 80 is negative in nature and that was one of the most uh when you guys asked me what where was one of the awakening moments it's like that's something i can do is if i'm thinking 80 of the time negative thoughts i can start looking at and seeing where those negative thoughts.

Oh, there's a negative thought, right? Oh, there's a negative thought. I can look, I can notice that and I can begin to change that so that I'm taking that 80% and dropping it down. All I have to do is stop that. I don't have to train myself to, oh, look at the at the pretty flowers oh look at the daffodils or whatever just stop doing what doesn't work negative thinking not on the spirit i mean it's part of the spiritual path because it's always coming up but it's that it's that whole definition of insanity uh you know i learned that too and a it's insanity is when you keep doing the same thing over and

over again and getting the same results and there you go Shanna we all do it why are we so dumb it's that we're it's not that we're dumb it's committed to staying safe and the way that we believe that we're you you know, it's, we're committed to the fear model. And that is from our survival mechanism and our egoic, that's smart to stay safe and survive. spiritual path we have to go okay i have to start thinking differently i have to start looking at things differently to start to build from a neural pathway thing a different pathway but a spiritual journey takes you each of us on our own individual path we have to be willing to do that one little tiny step at a time so it's not that we're dumb it's just that we're committed to something that consensus view of reality says that's the way you guys know the experience actually is this is not the way and so you guys each holding your own truth and being the beacon for that and saying you guys every single one of us has our own path. And you guys are holding the staff saying,

follow your own bliss, as Joseph Campbell said. We all know it. You are very wise. And I'm going to thank you now. So thank you for what you've received and sharing it with us. You're so welcome. Yeah, I feel like we could talk forever. But by the way, we do love cuss words

and now it's time for break that shit down i want every single person to know truly know and to tap into that direct experience of the knowing that you've all had of experiencing that truth that that you know who you are in there you know the delight you know what the experience of that infinitely pleasingness of being you and and really embrace that more and more and more. Keep coming back to that knowing of the infinitely pleasingness of your existence and keep feeding and nurturing that. And you're going to have a lot of fun-ish. Please come on again. Be an honor to have you on Sense of Soul again.

Just tell me when and I will be here because I love talking with you guys. Oh my gosh, this has been amazing. Where can our listeners find you? They can find me. My website is theparadigmshifts.com. You can Google me. That's really easy.

Dr. Rosie Kuhn, K-U-H-N. I have a YouTube channel with tons of videos, mostly related to this kind of stuff. That YouTube channel is called Dr. Rosie Kuhn, K-U-H-N. But all Thursdays right now at five o'clock Pacific time, I'll be doing live videos on spiritual dilemmas. And that's exactly what we're talking about here is these dilemmas. Rosie, thank you so much for your wisdom. I mean, I feel like a student. You definitely expanded my spiritual intelligence today and I appreciate you very much. You're welcome. Yeah, I keep thinking of Super Mario Brothers.

You helped us like go up one of those tunnels to the next level. And now I'm jumping on top of a mushroom and connect it. I mean, whoa, maybe there's something to the Super Marios and the mushrooms. Yeah, you pick up Rosie's book. I've arrived, whoa, maybe there's something to Super Mario's and the mushrooms. Pick up Rosie's book. I've arrived.

Well, sort of. And all my books are on Amazon. So you can check them out on my website, but also they're all on Amazon. So thank you. All right. Thanks for being with us today. We hope you will come back next week. If you like what you hear, don't forget to rate, like, and subscribe.

Thank you. We rise to lift you up. Thanks for listening.