Sense of Soul - The Greatest Love of All

Episode Date: March 31, 2023

Today on Sense of Soul Podcast we have author Vony Eichel. She is the author of  “A Reason to Carry On: The Meaning of Life is Within Each of Us to Grasp.” . She was born and bred in New York where she attended C.W.Post College of L.I.U., but lived all her adult life in London. She explored many careers; working as a Blue Badge Tour Guide, studied for the Stock Exchange and Finance Industry, Behavioural Psychology and Systems Analysis. Vony finally found her calling as an Exercise Therapist for the elderly, disabled, those with special needs and psychiatric ex-offenders. Her passions are ballet and wild swimming. She now lives on a beach in Sussex.   To learn more about Vony Eichel, her work and her book, please visit: https://areasontocarryon.com/ Visit Sense of Soul at www.mysenseofsoul.com Do you want Ad Free episodes? Join our Sense of Soul Patreon, our community of seekers and lightworkers. Also recieve 50% off of Shanna’s Soul Immersion experience as a Patreon member, monthly Sacred circles, Shanna mini series, Sense of Soul merch and more. https://www.patreon.com/senseofsoul Follow Sense of Soul Podcast on Social Media: https://www.facebook.com/SenseofSoulSOS

Hello, my soul-seeking friends. It's Shanna. Thank you so much for listening to Sense of Soul podcast. Enlightening conversations with like-minded souls from around the world, sharing their journey of finding their light within, turning pain into purpose, and awakening to their true sense of soul. If you like what you hear, show me some love and rate, like, and subscribe. And consider becoming a Sense of Soul Patreon member, where you will get ad-free episodes, monthly circles, and much more. Now go grab your coffee, open your mind, heart, and soul. It's time to awaken. Hello, before we get started, I wanted to thank my new Patreon members, Alicia, Neville, Sonia, and Radine. And I'd also like to thank Jennifer and Jamie for donating to my coffee fund.

I have my favorite dirty chai with me right here, and I'm ready to introduce my guest today, Vonnie Eichel. She is the author of the book called A Reason to Carry On. The Meaning of Life is Within Each of Us to Grasp. In this book, she shares the story of when she was an exercise therapist teaching classes for psychiatric offenders and in nursing homes for people living out their final furlough. Vani tells the stories of the many individuals that she encountered of all ages with mental, physical, and emotional disabilities in contrast to socializing with the rich and famous. She found that whatever their weaknesses or limitations were, that everyone is similar at their core, and that the same universal, simple truths applied to all, to finding a meaningful life.

And it's a pleasure for me to have her on with us today. Thank you so much for being with us, Fani. Hi, so pleased to meet you. Oh, it's so good to meet you too. I've been listening to your other podcasts. I've enjoyed them very much. Thank you. Oh, it's so good to meet you too. I've been listening to your other podcasts. I've enjoyed them very much. Thank you. I really enjoyed your book. Oh, thank you so much. It's not that big a book, but there's a lot in it. It hit my heart. I think it's absolutely lovely. And I look forward to this conversation because, you know, when I have a child on the spectrum and I often think about the forgotten.

And, you know, to be able to love a child and that's all you have to do is give that child love. It's wonderful. You know, I had on a beautiful guest named Heidi Ram. She talked about her son. And he was on the spectrum of autism. And, oh, that episode, I must have cried the entire time. But basically, she was told that he had the mental capacity of a five-month-old. I know people like that because I worked with them. Well, when he got the technology, though, and he was learning how to text, he had the wisdom of the universe.

He was not the brain of a five-month-old. And in fact, he had so much wisdom. He spoke of past lives. He spoke of things that he shouldn't have. And when she said, why do you hurt yourself? He said, I can't help it. I would if I could. She asked him, did you think that it was going to be this hard, this life? And he said, I didn't know it'd be so long. And then when she said, is there anything I can do for you? He said, you just have to love me and I'll do the rest. That's all you need to do, really. And that was the name of her book. You just have to love me. That's the answer to everything.

I know. It was a beautiful story. And, you know, I kind of felt that same vibration from you. In fact, reading your book, I often thought of Audrey Hepburn even. Holly Golightly and Breakfast at Tiffany's. She called Paul Fred, you know, because she had lost her brother. And she saw something in Paul that reminded her of her brother. And so she said, can I call you Fred darling?

I've always loved her because beyond just her as an actress, she was such a humanitarian. I wrote in my book, I don't know if you remember that part, where I transferred my feelings to my lost brother. And without knowing it, and a lot of people do that sort of thing without being aware that they're transferring their own selves onto someone else, using them without realizing that they're transferring their own cells onto someone else using them without realizing that they're doing that yeah that's actually what I thought about her yeah and then being the ballerina everything I mean it's just it's like a metaphor for a perfect life because really to have a perfect life is to be in control of your life and there it is it's

you know it's mind body spirit because it's psychology philosophy spirituality emotion it's everything because you have to be at such a peak of you know your mind body and spirit all working together to technically and it doesn't matter it doesn't have to be ballet but it's any professional sport or anything that we try to do to be at the best of you have to be in control and it's funny i was i had a book launch this week and there was the psychologist there and he was retired and he said he really never understood and never thought to make a connection with the body, with the mind, which is very, you know, strange people now, now they understand it. And they're starting to understand how much the body is a part of the mind works like Freud knew it. Right? Carl Young.

Yes, you know, it's just yesterday, I had I teach Reiki. So I had a Reiki class. I was teaching about the different stages of the chakras, a timeline. So it's like the root chakra is one to seven years old and it goes all the way up to 50. And we're talking about your experiences and all the wisdom that you receive. And we were laughing because I said, you see that? I said, you start all over. So by the time that you hit, like in your 80s to 90s to 100, you finally figured it out and then life's over. I'm not so sure. A lot of people that I think you might have read about in the book, reason to carry on, they didn't learn at that age, you know, people even I meet

in life, sometimes they get older, but they don't, unfortunately, they don't get wiser. You wrote, it is true that older people lose millions of brain cells, but nerve connections increase proportionally, that the psychological basis for older and wiser. So there's actually something in science that almost proves. And so it's amazing. That's so interesting to me. Everything that I've written always has a basis, a scientific aura. I love that.

I didn't just throw out facts. They came with something behind it. You know what? I'm the same way. So I'm very spiritual but yet I always want to know the reason why and you know what usually there's a scientific reason it's beautiful how science and spirituality have a marriage well I'm always very impressed by Rabbi Lord Sachs and he's I mean his books were fantastic and he was a wonderful speaker he died just two years

ago and he said you always have to look at the minutes of the last meeting and so of course that's why I found bible studies so interesting and so important you know when you people who or you know follow religion or they don't want to follow religion because they didn't understand what it's really about because it's not been taught properly to them. But with the internet now, you can learn so much from different areas. You know, if you're not happy with one, you can learn from someone else. And it's just amazing that there's so much out there if we just avail ourselves of it. Right. And read it for yourself. I remember picking up the Bible early in my journey when I at first was angry and bitter and I felt like everything I thought I knew

wasn't. And I was having doubts and all the systems of my life, you know, in my religion, in the government, and I was bitter and everything I thought I knew wasn't. And so I decided to do it and read it for myself without anyone teaching me. And the words, there was so much wisdom in there. And I'm like, how did I never know this was in here? This wasn't taught to me. Exactly. Exactly. But yeah, I find that, you know, especially right now, you know, I have

kids from 25 to almost 11. And my youngest daughter is very inward. She's also an artist. It's just the way that she sees the world. It's the way she's experiencing her world and she's inward. And actually, I think it's a very beautiful thing because I think most of us are, you know, we get into our forties, we're trying to go inward for the first time and she came into this world this way however you know a lot of times when you are labeled as the introvert or autistic or all these things you're not the normie yes that's why it's so bad to label people but really those type of people they're much more in touch with their instincts yeah and their sensitivities you know they know exactly what they're on their sixth sense they're

in touch with their sixth sense very often that you know great artists and writers where do they get the inspiration from because they they've got that they they're in touch with their six people who want to think that oh they have to be out and follow the crowd they might go down the wrong way you know it's no usually stay in her own past because they try to prove themselves or whatever reason but I think that's wonderful and that you honor it. So my third child is the one who's on the spectrum. One of the first things that I noticed, well, there were several things, but one of the first things I noticed that he was not very connected to his body and also to the perception of the world.

So he would do this thing where when he would go from grass to say like the cement, he would get on his knees, turn around like he was going down a stair or something. So his perception was off and he was always very careful the way he was seeing the world and where his body was. And we used to do compression therapy with him, brush his body. And then for two hours, we would teach him so that because his body needed to be awakened to be able to receive. My son has taught me so much. Most of us are on the spectrum. Do you still do exercise therapy? I just think it's an amazing technique that people don't often talk about. Unfortunately, I don't do it anymore I write about it now but it was my time at that time and but I think it's so important for your child to do exercise

or to do but but focused exercise that's what I taught folks which is totally different it's more like a ballet technique or technical that you know how to use your body properly you work from your center and you extend out and all that you know how to use that you're always in control because if you're in control like in the book reason to carry on i talk about henry and he thought he was real cool and he came into a room swaggering and all that he looked ridiculous I said come back out again and stand up tall and walk up with your head up high and your back straight shoulders down and walk and you know you feel different and that's the whole thing but people put these masks on in life or they just adopt a certain posture when I was a little girl i used to put my shoulders up all

the time you know and we adopt because we don't know the right technique which is very simple and it's about letting go not holding on to tension so i think i would recommend that you do put your yeah he loves yoga wonderful you know when people have problems they're disconnected from their yes troubled and they all need to get back in touch with their body you know in the book i was writing about when i worked in retirement homes nursing homes and the people were troubled you know i always tried to touch them feel that connection with touch and some of them they once I would invade their space and then after a while they let me touch them you know just because I wanted them to feel that connection and then they accepted it not to praise myself or something but it's so important

or horned held that they feel that human connection and the experience of what it is to be a human right to have this body let's talk about the class that kind of you start the book off with you had a lot of different men in that class and you are very beautiful by the way so you know and you didn't have like just your regular guys showing up for this class I mean there was a lot of different characters in there well it was a hostel for a psychiatric ex-offender so but you know I love them. I was so attached to them because with me, they got to trust me and they let go. You know, a lot of it, I did behavioral psychology to understand the people I was working with. And you have to understand when you come, when someone comes from a home where they only saw violence and where they were just where they didn't have attachment

attachment is so important in the very early stages of our lives you don't have a proper attachment your brain is plastic yes and it's molded so if it doesn't get molded in the right way it's not getting those connections like we were talking earlier about the brain and it's getting you know for older people but when about the brain and it's getting you know for older people but when it's young and it doesn't it's not able to flow energy when you know about energy the flow of energy the flow of information it's not able to receive that so what do they do who people who live in violent inner cities or with the violence around them they have to protect themselves and how do they do it they have this tough nature and their perceptions are very different because they

perceive anyone you know they were they were always talking about oh this person wasn't you know i was tough or something and they got in fights because they had to show that they needed respect then respect was bumped into them it was a terrible thing you know so that's what they needed and it's so different when you're it's the way your brain perceives things from very early so anyway I started working with them and they dropped this with me, because they saw that they didn't have to have anything. And I was there for exercises, but I wasn't successful in that way, because they weren't really keen on it. They wanted to talk and let it all hang out. And you created a safe space for them, didn't you?

Yeah. I mean, no one supervised us. No one came to see it, but I did try to keep focusing on the exercise, please. You said in your book that it was through their vulnerability in their stories, which I can tell you love to hear people's stories. I do too. But I mean, I don't know why they, I guess when you go to the hairdresser, sometimes you tell more secrets, don't you? I'm a massage therapist, so I know this. They were all talking about, but they let it out always because it's how they were feeling. And I spoke about one person, he started crying right away talking about something. They were so vulnerable, so vulnerable. vulnerable but it was just you just felt the

human side of it but then I was sucked in as well because when I started working with the main character Henry and I fell for his um needing me and wanting me and I'm sure he did and he was in perhaps through mission being a psychopath and I only found afterwards that he was diagnosed as a violent psychopath an arsonist rapist but with me I was alone he never he was sort of I think I don't know what it is but was remission and then his real self came out when we we had a break I had a vacation and I came back and he wasn't the same anymore but it was before that where you really felt needed someone he couldn't read or write and he wanted help and psychopaths are known to be very manipulative but I don't believe he was

manipulating me then quite honestly I think when the real person came out, the real psychopathy came out, it wasn't the same person. You could see. And I think it was two people. I really feel it was two people. I don't think he was being manipulative. I really think it was genuine. When he was able to maybe connect with his body and feel safe then he was able to really

truly be in his himself maybe i believe so yeah you believe so because he couldn't anymore when he when it got out when he couldn't control himself anymore there was no way he could manipulate or be you know he was a different person so maybe there is a you know I would like to ask someone I never thought about really made me think about that maybe he was a completely different person then I've always been one of those people funny that tends to see the sad person in the room and kind of go towards them just because I am an empath, right? I definitely think you are. You talked about, I don't know if you use the word empath, but that, you know, we're all really sensing each other's vibration and frequency. And some,

I think, I think if you are more present, you know, with your body, right, you're able to do that easier and sense other people's energies you do talk about that in your book about how you were sensing their energy yes and i think there's a light sometimes your light is too strong for other people it's very interesting people talk about light when they say what light is about the light of creation because you know when you speak about light is about the light of creation because you know when you speak about light you know which light you're speaking of but it's really it's a different light i think that you're talking about now aside from the light of creation you know there's a life

of creation like when when god created the universe the world he the first day he created light and was only four days later that he tried that he created so what was that light that was the original light creation is supposed to shine twice the first time we see it it's very bright and then it you know then we're always longing for it and when it comes again it's never as bright, they say. So I'm sure there's something with the light in us or whatever. I don't know quite. Yes, the divine spark within is what I believe it is. A little spark of that light. We are a spark of that. That's what I believe we are. But do you also think though, because when you were talking about sometimes our light is too big, I do, I feel like I'm aware of that and I can lower my light a little

bit, right. To be able to match yours. Yes. Yes. I think you have to, when you go out in the world, you have to, you know, the same time, same time, when you say you go up to people's levels, when you're working with people who are needy, you're going up to their level because they're vulnerable. They're true and honest. What is it? What is this level? It's the level of people who've discarded all these plastic and put the real person. That's all it is.

But when you make the real person, that's the real person without the plastic, without the mask. That's when you have the real person without the plastic, without the mask. That's when you have the real person. Hey, listeners, sorry for the interruption, but I wanted to let you know about Sense of Souls Spring Book Club, which is starting Sunday, April 16th. We will be reading The God Solution, The Power of Pure Love by Neal Donald Walsh, who inspired millions. The book series Conversations with God and The God Solution is his latest book.

The book club will be meeting via Zoom beginning Sunday, April 16th at 5 p.m. Mountain Time and every other Sunday until May 28th. You can join for only $5 on Sons of Soul Patreon, and you will also get free episodes, merch, and much more. And then in June, I'll be interviewing Mr. Neil Donald Walsh on Sense of Soul Podcast. You can also learn more at mysenseofsoul.com. I hope that you join.

It's a great way for me to interact and get to know all of you. Hope to see you soon. Now back to our amazing guest. You know, one thing about these people that I worked with, the ex-offenders, they needed instant gratification. They couldn't delay their gratification. And that's why people who become addicted have these addictions because it satisfies that immediate need. When you use drugs or alcohol at a young age, they're disturbing their brain. The whole brain is being altered. The chemistry of their brain is altered. So they can't have all the endorphins or dopamine or what we need to have a happy life because they've destroyed their own abilities.

You want to live pure in life and be the best person you can be. And know if you've been had problems and you've been disadvantaged, the one thing in life is you can get better. You can alter things because if you focus, if you even a damaged brain, focused attention, even on a damaged brain, there's ways that to get around it. Yeah, like, like the story of James Fallon. That story just is fascinating to me. He is a neurologist or something. He was studying the brains of the psychopaths and the narcissist and then he does the brain scans and then he sees oh this guy's definitely you know a psychopath and it's his brain oh yes yes yes yes I've read that a lot it was very yeah but once he had awareness he was able to make a conscious decision like oh well I'm supposed to care about these things I haven't because it's not natural to me but now I'm going to make a conscious decision to show empathy when it's supposed to be appropriate and it made a difference in his life

of course there's nothing you can't do for you focus your mind to it and you know what your limitations are I mean I adore ballet classes but I learned I finally gave into the idea that I have something that that you can't do ordering I have to watch another person so I had to give into it I can't do it you know I can't continue the same thing in life when you're no you can't do anything you know I can't continue the same thing in life when you know you can't do anything you know I have to always watch another person you know yeah me too I gotta know what that is that's like probably why I can't follow directions right sequencing sequencing disorder it's called sequencing I just gotta accept it you know and that's the sort of thing when you accept your hat what you can't change right and just like

alcohol is anonymous in you they say you can change things that you can't accept and you know and you get around it because the world's a very big place so it's accepting you know these things and you know everyone has them you know like I was totally finding that in me as well that I have tons of things and it's best if you do accept them and find the tools that's going to help you. You know, one thing I was thinking about also when I was reading your book is how hurt people hurt people. You repeat your behavior, but you know, if you had a parent who screamed, you're going to scream. If you had a parent who hit, you're going to hit. You know, how do you

know differently? A lot of our behavior is memory. Sometimes we remember certain things and that's what we do. We act from memory. So a lot of the people that you worked with, do you feel that it was because of their experiences that who they were or did they actually have like narcissism they say is irreversible you know do you believe that do you believe that these like schizophrenia you did mention that in your book I think all these things like you you just mentioned James Fallon I hadn't remembered his name but we once you're aware of things and you really try but you know it's so hard for these people because they're basically a lot of them on drugs yeah you know a drug to keep themselves if they have schizophrenic or any

problems like that they're drugged so they they can't express themselves and they can't really live a proper life and but listen people with awareness and if they have someone who loves them the whole thing in life you have sadness i know and they've been labeled labeled bad right and so they probably don't fill up. The way they also, their approach and who they are and their, you know, it's very sad, really, because they're not going to find someone to love them. Because also when you haven't had a proper relationship, how do you know how to make relationships? You're going to attract people who are damaged like you are. You know, so you're going to have the cycle because they're no better than you are you need someone really from who's really full of love but how are you going to find

that asked me to marry him one of the students and i mean you couldn't in a million years because you know he was a very troubled and damaged person and uh they just wanted a way out and you know but nobody you know nobody in person who was be looking for that sort of troubled person because he couldn't sustain a relationship with anyone as much as they want but nobody's any different everyone wants the same thing even if they know it but they don't know it they just want to be loved and they want someone to love them and sometimes if you don't have a partner I've been alone most of my life and I was widowed my husband died you know in a car accident and you get used to being on your own I mean I have

if I didn't have my children my family they're everything for me but we all need to have if we don't have a family unit we need the community you need to feel that you belong somewhere and if you're alone in the world you have to create this belonging to either a house of worship or belonging to a group or something you'll find interesting and if you have that belonging it doesn't matter if you're on your own you have to love yourself learn to love yourself the record I used to play always for my exercise classes was the greatest love of all and by Whitney Houston yes and it's it there's someone else who sings it as well partial but she was fantastic she's fantastic but it's you know the love it's the children are the future teach them well let them be the way that exists inside you know it every word people have to study the words of

that song because that's what it's all about loving yourself being the and because if you love yourself then you won't do anything bad you try to be the best person you can be and and if you try to be the best it doesn't matter if you succeed and not succeed but if that's your motive is doing it with love you know they always say there's only two two emotions in life love and fear both are very big words love is a big word but fear is envy greed avarice all the negatives and love is the positive so as long as you do out of love and what you believe is love we don't always succeed and we're not always correct in what we do but as long as we act out of love that's the most important thing and if you don't have anyone loving you, you have to love yourself.

And if people don't value you, it doesn't matter. You value yourself. Well, that's the reason we carry on right there. That's right. So true. But yet we're not taught this so that's why I always say can you imagine a world a generation that is taught this to love yourself you know to because when you begin to love yourself like unconditionally unconditionally right I love myself even though i have a messy closet

but also there's something else that the spiritual side of life that there's something out there that's greater to us than ourselves you know if you don't have that what is the alternative yeah people go through loss and grief in life. I mean, what else do you have? Or when you're ill or there's an illness or someone in your family is ill, what can you do but pray? You can't, there's nothing else to do.

You do everything else physically, which you can. But that's why I really believe there's something greater. And that's why I never feel alone. I tried to teach my students when we were having our talks particularly that there's something when they're always talk to someone talk to someone that you're not alone feel that there's an angel or a spirit or whatever you want to believe in there or a light whatever you it doesn't matter what you believe in as long as you believe and it's very hard you know

even the most religious of people to sometimes they question their beliefs because you know you wonder why all these terrible things happen in life how can there be how can there be a greater power but you know we're on earth and there are people it's not god who does these terrible things it's the people on earth who've done these things you know even if it's difficult you have to always believe in something greater because there's no other alternative it reminds me of when was it henry he fell and someone was going to help him up and he said what's the point exactly oh it killed me yes he just saw no point because I you know that stage I mean if you go on and continue reading his life was complete violence you know he was he was in a coma for three months because someone

had hit him on the head with something someone bit off his ear ear. So, I mean, he only knew the violence. From that point of view, it was really difficult. But I'm sure a lot of people felt the same way. Yeah. You know, over the past few years, it's been such a hard time. And it chills me to think that during COVID, so many people were one alone. And so many people were not able to be with their loved ones when they were sick or when they were dying I mean I can't think of anything just more horrific just really horrific to die alone

is terrible yeah that is just a shame I just think that you know there's that oxytocin, you know, that we release in our brain because of connection with others. And if you don't have it, like you die. Like you could die, you know, when you think about people dying with a broken heart, or I think there was a situation like that in your book. Yes, I think I wrote a lot. lot you know I really didn't know what kept these people alive I can't tell you what did I wrote them off so many times and they just came back more and more one woman particularly I think I was writing about that she had a stroke she lost her son and yet she came back and she was she, you know, she was, you know, paralyzed, had lost her son.

And yet she was kind of, she's back for, you know, she lived for a few years. I don't know. Some things we're not, we're not supposed to know it all. That's the one thing to know. You don't know it all. You know, I've always loved old people. I do. I have always, I used to love to just sit with my great grandma, my grandma, and just listen to their stories, their experiences, their wisdom.

For some reason, I knew that it was important. I always tell my children, my kids right now, my oldest is almost 26, and they have a great-grandma still. And she is, I know, yeah, she's 90 something, but she is declining. She did well until she went to a nursing home. And I see that and hear that often. You know, it's a necessary evil in a way, but people like to be in their own homes and feel comfortable in their own homes. Yeah. Yeah. own homes and feel comfortable in their own homes yeah yeah you talked a lot about the people in the

nursing homes how you know many of them you know dementia and or were totally detached but there was so many of them the the ones who still had a love for life one story I always find so fun I used to laugh a lot I shouldn't but I used to laugh a lot there was shouldn't have, but I used to laugh a lot. There was one woman, she used to get undressed the whole time. I was only there for an hour a week, but I knew her body inside out and everyone else would always take off all her clothes constantly. was very correct and always said you're disgusting you're awful you're horrible and then one time I come in and they're sitting together holding hands and they had such a loving relationship and the one who was stripping all the time stopped stripping occasionally would have not very often but they were holding hands and it was such love between the two of them and then the one who was stripping died and the other woman who was so correct all of a sudden she went to pieces and she started then going into her handbag all the time when I saw her, she would take everything out of her handbag,

put it back in. All the time, it was obsessive compulsive. So what her behavior was, her obsession she had on this woman, she was treating her like a pet and giving her love and everything. And when she didn't have it anymore, she started focusing on something else like you know her handbag and this obsessive compulsiveness all the time and she didn't last much longer after that but even a situation like that was true love it was the most beautiful thing to see when you see two love and peace between these two women that is is so sweet, especially to find that in that environment. Amazing. It was just amazing. Well, Bonnie, thank you so much for joining me.

I think your book is just a blessing. I think that it's beautiful. You show that you really provided a space for these people that was safe. You didn't judge them you were just kind you know honestly it reminded me of Jesus in many ways he didn't care if there were lepers or prostitutes or tax collectors or murderers you see them as just people you don't humans yeah they still deserve love too. And like you touch, you know, I think they're often forgotten.

They desire love too. And the same, you know, I remember someone had told me once about Ethan because I said, I wonder if he'll ever find someone, you know, in his life. Maybe someone just like him, you know. And someone had said there's a lid for every pot. Yeah. And that gave me so much hope. And I never forgot that. Because, of course, he wants love in that way as well. Everybody.

It doesn't matter what they say. They want to be loved. That's the basis of the whole purpose of life. If you're looking for meaning in life you know that's what it's all about love it doesn't have to be one-to-one love it's love generally who live long you know they they centenarians they people who've had long lives they said why because some of us saw the joy in family some of the joy in whatever they did, and some just in life, simply life, simply. Do you believe that that light that you are talking about, that is love?

It's better than that. It's even more, you know, it's even more. It's a divine light. Right. There's not a word for it, really. It's something that we don't know. But there is, I think there is definitely something that we don't know but there is i think there is definitely something that we all you know that's there something's there sometimes you know we life

isn't easy because we're here to learn we're not here to have an easy time or fun time we're here to learn we can make the most of it it's not the life we have it it's how we live it. Even the most difficult of circumstances, you can have a great life if you know how to put meaning into your life. You know, like you say, you don't know what, how do you say, what is music? What is art? What is love?

It's you putting meaning into it. You put the meaning into it. And that's what about putting meaning into life. By you putting more meaning into it you put the meaning into it and that's what about putting meaning into life by you putting more meaning into it and the people who fail to do that that's sad isn't it because a lot of people don't really find who they truly are and we have news for them they'll have to come back and repeat till they do just keep pushing away that love you're just gonna have to get it eventually until you're smothered with love. If people know that, they say, listen, if you don't do a good job of it now,

you'll have to come back and face it again. So just keep, do the best you can and be the best you can. Last night, our circle that we do was the Phoenix Rising out of the ashes. My friend, Lisa, ran the, and she asked everybody like that, why me question, you know, because I think that you can really get stuck in the why me, like, why is this my life? Why is this my circumstances? Why was I born into this crap, to be able to be that phoenix rising from the ashes, and, you know, have a reason to carry on. We all, you know, you have to do, put the meaning into it yourself.

Nobody can do it for you. You can be lazy if you like or whatever, but you have to do it. Just make a meaningful life for yourself. Otherwise you have to come back and face it all again. And now it's time to break that shit down well just you know keep singing the song of you know the greatest love of all just keep listening to when you're feeling down or anything you're just feeling you know just listen to the words because that's what it's all about. Isn't that beautiful? Yeah, I want to go listen to it right now.

Love is definitely the greatest energy that I've ever experienced, that I think that we can experience as humans. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you for bringing that into everyone's consciousness. It's such a delight to speak to you. You really are a beautiful person. Very beautiful. So are you. You really are a beautiful person. Very beautiful.

So are you. Thank you so much. Well, thank you for writing such a beautiful, inspirational book. Thank you so much, Donna. Great pleasure. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Sense of Soul Podcast. And thanks to our special guests for joining me. If you want more of Sense of Soul, check out my website at www.mysenseofsoul.com, where you can work with me one-on-one or help support Sense of Soul Podcast by donating to my coffee fund. Thanks for listening.