Sense of Soul - The Power in Your Story

Episode Date: March 4, 2024

Today on Sense of Soul Podcast we have a beautiful couple, Heather Box and Julian Mocine-McQueen, founders of the Million Person Project. They are a couple in life, in love and in work! They are two Northern Cali natives living in San Francisco, fascinated by how authentic personal stories can transform a room, a relationship, an organization or the world. They believe that now more than ever, we must bring our full selves to the work that we're most passionate about. They co authored the book, How Your Story Sets You Free, so that they can reach as many people as possible, changing the world, one story at a time. The Million Person Project (MPP) is a global project about love, storytelling and connecting change makers. Through one-on-one coaching, workshops, and The Story Academy, MPP supports change makers to identify and own their personal story relating to their work, in order to powerfully share it and move any audience to action.  Million Person project started as a project to help 1 million people globally change the world by telling their story. Since 2011 Heather and Julian have worked with over 3000 change makers from 69 countries - authors, TED speakers, activists, students, entrepreneurs and more. http://www.millionpersonproject.org Follow them at @millionpersonproject Learn more about Sense of Soul at www.senseofsoulpodcast.com

Hello, my soul-seeking friends. It's Shanna. Thank you so much for listening to Sense of Soul Podcast. Enlightening conversations with like-minded souls from around the world. Sharing their journey of finding their light within, turning pain into purpose, and awakening to their true sense of soul. If you like what you hear, show me some love and rate, like, and subscribe. And consider becoming a Sense of Soul Patreon member, where you will get ad-free episodes, monthly circles,

and much more. Now go grab your coffee, open your mind, heart, and soul. It's time to awaken. Today on Sense of Soul, we have a beautiful couple, Heather Box and Julian Mocine McQueen. They are the founders of the Million Person Project. They're a couple in life, in love, and in work. And they're fascinated by how authentic personal stories can transform a room, a relationship, an organization, worth the world. They believe that now more than ever, we must bring our full selves to the work that we're most passionate about. They are also the co-authors of the book, How Your Story Sets You Free. They're trying to reach as many people as possible, changing the world one story at a time. So please welcome

Heather and Julian. Hi, Heather. How are you? I'm good. Julian's here too. He's just getting coffee. Oh, I lost my coffee. That's why I was late.

I was like, I was on and then I was like, I sat down. I'm like, where's my coffee? I had to go search for it. I found it in the bathroom. Oh my God. I know. It's always in the weirdest places. Yeah.

So are you guys coffee drinkers? Big time. Yeah. Not a big old but, I know. It's always in the weirdest places. Yeah. So are you guys coffee drinkers? Big time. Yeah. I know because you got a little one. How old is your son? He'll be five in March. Oh, I love that age. Yeah, it's pretty fun. And you have three, right?

I have four. Four? I do. Oh, wild. That's cool. Where are you located? I am in Colorado. Oh, wow. That's cool. Where are you located? I am in Colorado. Oh,

cool. And where are you guys at? We're in San Francisco. Oh, okay. I like San Francisco. And are you guys originally from California? Yeah.

Yeah. I'm from a small town, an hour North of San Francisco. Okay. I'm all the way up in Northern California. Well, thanks you guys so much for coming on. I can't wait to hear all about your journey and how you got to where you are. So why don't you guys just start off by telling me, you know, who you are and how you met. I would love to know that. I'll always love to know the story behind the story. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having us.

Yeah. So I'm Heather Box and I met Julian Mosey McQueen in 1999. Yeah. So I was still a teenager when we first met. And the reason why we met is because his friends from high school are my friends from college so he would come down to visit his friends from high school that were at uc santa cruz and he's a dj so he was always like djing and like on the mic you know like cool yeah party and i was like hmm like, hmm. Who's that guy? That guy. Yeah.

So we were, and I was, you know, kind of had the same sense of Heather. She was always, felt like the most fascinating person at the party. She had this bag that she carried at the time that was, it was like a sprinkler. It looked like a sprinkling can, like a watering can. What? I don't know why, but it just struck me.

I just thought it was hilarious and quirky and like, oh, she's really cool. She's a little different. So we were always just really fond of each other and kind of buddies. But she also traveled. She did like study abroad. So I would go down there a lot and be like, where's Heather? And she'd be like in Spain or somewhere, wherever she might have been. Really?

Wow. That's cool. Yeah. And then? Yeah. And then? or somewhere wherever she might have been really wow that's cool yeah and then yeah and then well it was on my graduation night from uc santa cruz and i don't know if this is a little tmi but no it's not believe me we were at a party and he was ding, but he'd stepped out of the DJ booth for a minute and he was in the kitchen. And you know that like jar of Tostitos cheese dip? Oh, yeah, yeah. We still do that. Yeah.

Plaster cheese is the best. That's like my favorite snack. So Julian was getting like a chip in the tail end of that. So his hand was getting a little bit covered in tostito cheese dip was right by the dance floor the snack table and he turns around and he's kind of like realizes oh my god I'm like covered in tostito cheese dip so he makes a joke of it and he like wipes it all over his the top of his chest oh no you didn't the middle of the dance circle and he goes who wants some but like kidding because he's right

right he's deaf and i'm like literally sitting there being like come on heather this is your moment this is your moment yes and so my hand shoots up and i'm like oh my god that is amazing I'm like, amazing. So that was the first time we kissed. Over cheese. Over cheese. Over cheese whiz. Yes. Oh, my God. That is amazing.

I love that, though. It was amazing. And so then another year. Yeah, a couple years later. She moved to the city. I was already in San Francisco. She moved up here. And that was kind of when we started to get more serious.

So that was in 2005. Yeah. Yeah. 2005 is when we kind of like made it official to get more serious. So that was in 2005. Yeah. Yeah. 2005 is when we kind of like made it official, so to speak. So we've been together ever since. That's so cool. And you're the author of How Your Story Sets You Free. Yeah. So, I mean, you're vulnerable then.

And obviously you're willing to share your stories. And I feel like that's what Sense of Soul is. I love to hear those pain to purpose stories because we all have a story. And I feel like the more we share, the more we become one with each other and understand that, wow, you've gone through a lot too. That's very much at the heart of what we do is our belief in that and the ability of sharing personal narrative in the way that can open up a space for connection. And what I think is really cool is a lot of time when people think about stories, they think about, oh, you hear somebody's stories and you gather similarities of experience

and that's where the connection comes from. But one of the beautiful things that I've noticed is actually people can have incredibly dissimilar experiences, but find themselves in the same place in terms of their orientation to the same place in terms of their orientation to the world, in terms of their interpretation. And so it's really cool to get people together who come from incredibly different backgrounds, who have incredibly different stories in any way that you could think of in terms of where they grew up, in terms of socioeconomics, in terms of home life, all of that stuff. But they actually find connection through those differences. And they're like, oh, wow, you grew up there. And that was your thing.

But you still felt this way at this time. Wow, that's wild, you know. And so that's one of my favorite things about story sharing is actually seeing the way that the different experiences can come together and find themselves in the same place. And I think that's a really wonderful thing about stories, too. You know, I think that's why AA and Al-Anon and stuff is very helpful. I mean, it was for me. You find yourself sometimes thinking, man, I'm the only one in this situation like me. And then you go there and there's doctors and teachers and old people and young people, and they're all experiencing loving someone who is going through an addiction. And you do have that one thing in common, but they're all from different places in their life.

Yeah. The one thing that we all experience collectively is grief. We all know what it feels like to lose someone at some point in our life. And unfortunately, I was at Chuck E. Cheese back in 1993 when a friend of mine, Nathan, decided to kill several people. And one of them was a really good friend of mine. In that moment, whether we liked each other or didn't really like each other or whatever it was, we all came together as a community. I remember it was around Christmas, but yeah, it was just, there was something that brought us together. Part of that humanity piece. Yeah. I mean, one of the things that, that really guides my life and also guides my work is just the idea that your story is not about what happened to you or about what you did.

It's about who you've chosen to be given that. And to me, that's so important because it's like, you know, what did you choose to make that mean? Like, even when you're just sharing right now about that experience, what you're highlighting is how you came together with people and how you came together with people who you didn't necessarily like and you held each other. That's super important for people who are going through an experience. And it's not about looking for the silver lining. It's not about pulling the good out of the bad. It's bigger than that. And it's broader than that. It's about the human experience within these insane things that we have to face in our lifetime. And even with Nathan, even with the perpetrator, you know, their stories are so important because we work in prisons around, you know, supporting people to tell their stories.

And that can be a really, really, really ruthless journey to forgive yourself and to ask for forgiveness from others after you have committed what is sort of held as an unforgivable crime. You know, we all have to do it in our lives. We all have to forgive ourselves for things small and big. And the mechanism is the same. It's just the journey is more intense and more brutal a lot of times, depending on how available you are to forgive yourself. Yeah, I was so complex because I knew him. And I remember I went to

his first court day and I'd actually, I'd went in support of my friend and her family and all of us who were grieving her. But when I walked in, he saw me and he went like, kind of do like a what's up with his head to me. And I'll never forget how I felt because I thought did anyone see that like I had this guilt for for being associated in some way I felt like maybe he thought I was there for him but yeah I didn't process it so much because I was only 17 that's hard yeah I mean god that doesn't speak to like the complexity of life and how nothing's simple. You know, you hear that story and it's like, oh, this monster kid killed these kids. Obviously, something went wrong. Right.

Something's bad and that's it. That's an awful act. If you get anywhere near a situation like that, the complexity reveals itself immediately. Columbine happened not long after. You also we had the Aurora shooting. Do you know and I've had people on talking about this but they all have a group together there was the I think it was in Virginia there's a group that meet together here in Colorado because we had like the most at the time that's community that's you know what we're missing and it's sad that it takes tragedy though

for that to happen and how can we get there without tragedy? Yeah, this is something that I think about a lot, because the kind of origin story of our work has to do with working with climate activists all over the world. So we would travel all over the world, and we would work with climate activists in South Africa, Uganda, Vietnam, who were all coming together to speak at the United Nations conference. And this is coming back to this idea of like, does pain have to be the thing that catalyzes us to be together? Because what we would see is that all of these young people would get together for the UN conference. We would go to the bars or to the cafes and we would stay up all night talking to each other

and really getting to know each other and bonding. But then when we would go the next day to watch people present at the conference, we would see these same incredibly inspiring people who were inspired by their grandma, who risked their lives doing direct action and all these really inspiring stories, we would see them get up on stage and just go and fall really flat. And we would say, why didn't you bring your personal story to the stage? They would say the same thing every time, which is that it just felt too vulnerable. What happens if I have this huge opportunity as a 20 year old to speak in front of the United Nations and I cry?

And I think this is the thing that happens is like in the worst of times, we don't hide our vulnerability. We can't during grief, during pain. That's why those experiences can feel so bonding is because we're exactly as who we are, but in the good times, we don't want to share the bad stuff because we're afraid we're going to like bring down the mood or it's going to be too intense or people are going to think we're weird. We don't even really want to share the good stuff because we don't even really want to seem like we're bragging or we had better Christmas break than other people or like, you know, so we're like, it was good. And we keep ourselves in this like, locked into this middle world where there isn't a lot of connection, isn't a lot of bonding that happens

in that world. When pain to purpose or bonding through grief, it does happen, but it can also happen through your vulnerability just in every day of your life. It's just that it's so much harder to choose it when you have to choose it. Whereas with grief, it's like you can't bear the burden. So you have to share it. And you know, I find myself when I'm talking about something that I'm very passionate about, you don't have to search for words. I mean, I am on fire about it or things that I'm educated about, but you want me to talk about math or something? No, we're going to, yeah, no. But like at my, I'm really passionate about my ancestry and about history that has not been told. And so when I get going, oh my God, you know, there's no stopping me.

And, and I know that I'm connecting with people because when you're passionate about something, it's this energy that goes out and grabs people. I had this girl on not too long ago, and I'm not sure if I really bought into exactly what she was selling. I'm going to be honest. But she was so freaking passionate about it. She was so passionate about it. I mean, her full heart believes in this. I wanted to give her the space. I mean, I just was so happy for her. I mean, I can't even tell you. I think it's beautiful, but there's something about

when you share your story, if you are that connected to it. It doesn't matter what it is. Yeah, that's exactly right. That's something that we talk about in the book and we talk about a lot with our clients and people that we work with. Because a lot of times people are like, okay, well, I know I'm supposed to share my story, but what story do I share? And the answer is, what is the story that moves you? What is the story that you feel most connected to that makes your heart beat fast that brings up that energy that gives you the chills that you were just talking about having right like what are those stories because if that's the story you're telling then that's the one that your

audience is going to feel and it's interesting because there's brain science behind it the way our brains react to stories that are told with emotion and it's just like the way we are when you like you said when somebody's lighting up you're just like here what do you need i want it's like i don't even know if you're selling something i will buy it god dang that's good we always tell people like that is the most important measure for your story and what stories to share what is the story that you feel most alive when sharing that you feel emotionally connected to and sometimes that means emotion is coming up and it's on your edge. And so how do we work with that and make it so that you can offer that story and that vulnerability and that passion and still like get through what you got to say, right? Like there's some strategy there, but really the biggest measure about story

is like, what is the story that you feel moved by? If you feel moved by it, the people hearing it will feel moved too. They will. Yeah. authentic the energy that transfers but it's got to be authentic it's got to be real you know 100 you know there's this guy that we had on a few years ago my best friend mandy used to co-host with me and it was her her brother had died in iraq like 17 years ago and this was his master sergeant that was with him. And it was a terrible story. Like he wasn't supposed to go out. His wife was about to have her baby, his first child. And he served this guy, his name's Sergeant Tom Campbell. He served so much and he's seen so much. And he now goes around and talks and speaks and connects with all

of the people in all different branches of the military. And he shares the story. But one thing he told me that I found was so just amazing, reminds me of what you just said, that when he would tell a story, he realized that his voice would crack at certain places. He'd have to stop and he'd have to hold back those tears to get through this part of the story. And he noticed once he'd get past that part of the story, he noticed that the next time he spoke, it was another part of the story and he'd get past that part. And I've been that person who has always had a hard time talking through emotion, like saying goodbye. Like when I was saying goodbye

to my dad when he died, I mean, it was really hard and I felt defeated in moments because I had all these things I wanted to say, but it wouldn't come out my mouth. You know the feeling? It's like that lump, that energy that blocks you. It's the worst feeling, isn't it? No, and for me, I really relate to that. It was a little bit stressful when we started this company because this company is about personal storytelling and speaking your truth. But it's also about public speaking because so many of our clients are telling their stories from

stages. And it was stressful for me, because when it came to public speaking, like, I was incredibly nervous, like I would get sweat down my shirt, you know, like, I was so, so nervous, my mouth would get dry, and I would just cry. And it wasn't like I would choke up. It's like I would have to stop and cry a little bit and then keep going. And it just felt like, how is this person going to be trusted to teach people to tell their truth when she can't even get through the first four sentences? And Julian's mentor is this amazing public speaker and activist named Van Jones. And I went to him and I said to him, because I've seen him choke up on stage before. And I said to him, how do you choke up and not just fully cry?

And he gave me the best advice. It's about the permission you're giving yourself. He was like, give yourself permission to cry. Give yourself permission to cry. Like you're going to speak a lot in your life. So the next few speaking engagements you have, the next few podcasts you're on, just cry. Don't hold back. And it was so interesting because even on the first one, I went in with that permission. I was so much less nervous. I gave a little bit of a disclaimer at the beginning, like sometimes I get choked up and I have to cry a little and I cried so much less. Now it's not something that I navigate. I mean,

I'm very emotional and my heart is open. And so I do get caught up sometimes and get choked up, but I can almost not relate to that person 10 years ago who would get that nervous and who would cry that much. And I needed that permission to cry like that. I had on a jet from Mindvalley and we talked about this because I said, I don't like to do video. I'm comfortable behind here, but I'm like, but I start ugly crying, dude. I mean, I do. I mean, and I can edit this out, right, and all that. And like he said, he's like, you know, I think your listeners, they listen because they can relate that you are emotional.

Yeah. Totally. And he's like, I think it'd be cool for them to see, you know. Right. I'm like, I don't know about that real ugly crying, but. So he challenged me and I've been doing it. Yeah. But I think, you know what?

It was me giving myself permission to allow that. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Something that really strikes me about you, just even now and listening to to your podcast is just you are such an open book. Like the level of vulnerability that you choose to bring to every part of the conversation is really real. And you're very easy to feel like I can tell you're being you and I can feel that and I can feel that as an audience member and also now as a guest. And it's not easy to do. It's not common. So it shows the work that you've done and the choices that you've made to just say, hey, this is who I am. I'm going to choose to be that person out loud. And that to me is what's going to change our culture to be more loving and accepting of who each of us truly are. It's when we stop hiding ourselves at every corner and pretending that we didn't experience something, pretending that we didn't think something, that we didn't feel something. And I just think you model that really

well. Thank you so much. That's so sweet. I will receive that because I used to be the best actor in the whole world. I should have got an Emmy. That life is actually very painful. You know, fake it till you make it. That's hard. That's hard. This is easy. So do either of you have a personal story that is vulnerable that you'd want to share that kind of led you to know what you just said? So I know there's got to be an impactful story behind it. So I, you know, as Heather said, I grew up in Humboldt County, which is northern, northern California, behind the Redwood Curtain, as we say. Beautiful. It's up on the coast. Well, it's a big county, but I grew up on the coast up there. But I'm from Oakland originally. So I'm from West Oakland. And my family, I was born there,

both me and my brothers. I have two brothers, older and younger. And we were born there. My parents met there at the community college, bought a house in West Oakland, one of the working class Black communities in Oakland. And that's where we started. And in the early 80s, it started to get crazy, you know, started with like sort of the jobs that supported the middle class and the working class there started to dry up and go overseas. It's all over the country that started to happen in the 70s, right? And then, you know, with the introduction of crack cocaine into the community, that was just so destabilizing. So my dad in particular, he thought about, you know, what that would mean to raise his three boys in what was becoming an increasingly volatile situation. And that's what he and my mom made that decision to move us up to Humboldt County, rural area, much different, you know, in and among the cows, there's more cows than people.

You know, so it was really, it was a big decision. One of the things we talk about in our storytelling work is considering when you think about stories and think about what shaped you and sort of shaped your values, decisions that you've made, but also the decisions shaped you and sort of shaped your values, decisions that you've made, but also the decisions that were made for you. And so, you know, the decision that my parents made to move us to the country is, I would say, is probably far and away the biggest turning point in my life. And my growing up was a lot of back and forth between the city, between Oakland and Ferndale, between the city and the country. And one of the most important parts of that was our family, that we remained connected to my cousins. I had a number of

cousins and my cousins, Bert and Nalen, lived not far from where we had lived in West Oakland. And we just loved them. They're right between all of our ages. We were kind of all right there. And they were like the cool city cousins, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I had those in New Orleans. Oh, I bet you did. Yeah. I love it. I love it. I love that when you said you're famous from New Orleans.

That is one of the great cities in the world. I love New Orleans. Anyway, yeah. So they were that for us, you know, and they would kind of keep us hip to like whatever we needed to be hip to. They would come to the country and we would teach them how to like build the proper dirt bike tracks and like swimming in the rivers, you know, so it's really this exchange. And, you know, their experience and that sort of dividing line of them in the city and us in the

country was a really important part of my life. So in what really shaped my work and my orientation to the world and like wanting to do something in the world was, you know, has to do with them. So when I was 19, they were 18 and 16, respectively, still in high school. I'd seen them recently. We had been talking about, you know, what are you going to do after high school? Where are you going to go to school? Are you going to play ball, et cetera, et cetera, just sort of like, you know, thinking about our futures together. And what happened is they started running with the older dude in the neighborhood and decided to rob a jewelry store. And they had guns and masks and all the rest. 18 and 16, never been in trouble, tried to rob a jewelry store. And luckily they were not hurt. Nobody was hurt, but they were caught and they were sentenced to 14 and 17 years in the adult penitentiaries in California. And so that was like such a devastating

moment for my family, for them, for their parents, for all of us. I remember my dad getting that call and just the horror in his voice, you know, what? He just kept saying what over and over again, like complete disbelief. And as that unfolded, it was just having to come to terms with like, oh, their youth is just over. They didn't get out to the 30s. They're out now and Nalen has since passed. Unfortunately, Bert is doing really well. So there's a good postscript there. But coming to terms with that was so eye-opening for me. And it's related to my work because my dad used to say when we would ask him, so we would come and visit the city and we'd be like, my parents would

always talk about, man, I wish we could have held on to our house. And sometimes they would be like, maybe we should move back, you know? And it was this clear draw. They loved Oakland. They loved the city. And so we'd ask them, why did you move? And my dad said, because I wanted you to be in a place where kids could just be kids. You know, I wanted you to live in a place where you could just be a kid as long as you needed to be a kid. And we got it. But it was that experience with Burton Aylton and the choice that they made, but also the situation that they were in, the pressures that they were under, the differences in the nature of the schools they went to. And just one mistake, throw away the key. Yeah.

And it was just like, so that was what shaped my, when my dad said, why don't you be in a place where kids be kids? That is when it came home to me. And, and it shaped everything I did from that point on really of saying, well, you know what? Every community, Oakland is a beautiful community. Every community should be one where kids can be kids. It should not be based on we moved to the country. So now that there's like more there or there's less pressures. And so my work is guided by, you know, that deep belief of like, hey, every community should be one of those. And so how do we do that? Yeah, we do that. And what is the role? And it's taken many forms in my life. You know, I've done different things, but it all comes back to that. And the storytelling to me is so critical to that. They were told a compelling story by somebody in their neighborhood

that had them rob a jewelry store, right? That was storytelling right there. So how do we cultivate other stories that offer a different opportunity, that share a different way of getting ahead? There's a very distinctive perception difference when it comes to generations. I mean, I really truly think my dad did tell me the story that he made it up and down in the snow in Missouri because he was from Missouri. And he never missed a day of school and blah, blah, blah. You know, those kind of stories that they're told. You hear it all the time. Oh, when I was 18 years old, I went to the military and then I went to college and this and that. And it's like, dude, I would love for you to come and live in this era right now, today, Mr. 70-year-old.

It is like the world is in what you grew up in, in what you saw, sometimes people only see that, you know, still and have a hard time kind of conforming to what we're dealing with today in the present moment. Yeah. Well, and that's, that again comes back to the story of like, work hard and you can get ahead, which is not ever completely untrue. Right. But you know, college was a thousand dollars for four years back then. Right. But, you know, college was a thousand dollars for four years back then. College is a thousand dollars a second now. So there's a different story. It's a more complex story as always. How can he be in his experience and draw wisdom from it? Because there's a lot of wisdom in the story, no doubt.

Yes. And how can he have his heart and mind and ears open to some of the changing reality. Without making you feel like you're not good enough or that you're not smart enough or you're not doing enough, that enoughness. Yeah. If you don't feel like somebody is hearing where you're coming from and accepting of your story in some way, then it's hard to hear what wisdom they might have for you. What you're saying doesn't apply, right? So how do we, you know, cultivate our own, all of our ability to like really listen, you know, really listen to understand. But I think it's that vulnerability piece that's missing from these older generations

who, I mean, shoot, of the baby boomers, they were called the silent generation. They didn't speak about things. Yeah. Yeah. I think that is, I mean, that feels like a change even in, since we've started our work and I feel like social media is a part of this, but there is, you know, I do feel the movement of like, Hey, we have to be more open. We have to be more real. Like we're all experiencing so much. We all have reef and the challenges and et cetera, et cetera. And we go through life

pretending like we don't and we're all suffering for it. And I do feel like when I think about generational stuff and I think about the generation even below us and how much more practice they are at being real with each other, of sharing their experiences. And I think it gets clowned on by a lot of people are in particularly like sort of older heads. Historically, we've leaned so far into that, like, keep it to yourself. Someone told me once as a podcaster, you should never talk about, was it religion, politics? And maybe there is another one. I'm like, shit, that's my favorite subjects.

Yeah. Like, what are we going to talk about this? I feel like we've been sold a very selective, intentionally sold a selective history of America. And most of this is all from my own experience, though. These are the experiences that I've learned through my own ancestry, through my own spiritual journey. But it's not something people want to talk about. Literally, it's supposed to be taboo. You're not supposed to talk about. I'm like, well then if we're not talking about it,

how are we ever getting moved past this? You know, how are we ever going to heal this? Yeah. Yeah. And that, especially like religion and politics, those are such like value based to be a good person. You have to do this.

That is so imprinting on who we are. And so it's harder to undo that stuff. I mean, I think about it too with Roman, our four year old, it's like, she is trying to figure out what the rules of the world are and like what's okay and how you fit in and how you don't and what makes mommy mad and what makes daddy mad and he's trying to figure that all out i can't imagine if i was also saying to him like you are being judged and you will be punished if you don't turn for eternity if you don't act right like i love religion because i grew up so non-religious like i've never even stepped foot in a church with my parents like they're alert or my dad is because he grew up hardcore catholic and so i love religion in that it's very alluring

to me like you're like a fresh slate when it comes to bmo yeah and and how people really care for each other like there are parts of religion that i feel like you know our world is lacking that community piece especially studying together and sharing together and figuring out the world together debating and i love that but the whole idea of like hardcore right and wrong and like there's no other way doesn't feel right to me. And part of my story that really connected with something that you were sharing earlier about walking into the courtroom and having Nathan nod at you and say like, oh, am I here for him? There's a moment similar to that for me in my life. A couple of days before my 12th birthday,

when I woke up in the morning, I could tell that there was something really wrong. My mom was being, so I could like, I was like, what is she going to say? What is she going to say? I was getting ready for it. And she was at the coffee maker. And I remember she turned around and she said to me, Jessica, who's my friend from

school, Jessica's little sister was kidnapped. And what had happened is we grew up in a small town where you don't lock your front doors. I even leave keys to my car in my car. So I don't ever have to look for them like that kind of vibe. And somebody had entered my friend's little sister's house while her mom was home and she had two friends over he tied up her two friends he was a stranger it's a random act of violence and he kidnapped poly class oh shit yes and so he kidnapped her and we searched for her for over 30 days. And eventually the police found the kidnapper, Richard Allen Davis, and he led them to where he had buried her and she had died. To me, that was the most destabilizing, most destabilizing situation in my life because I didn't know where you could be safe. It was like I really took up the defense and I felt in my house I had to guard against people coming in.

And it was so terrifying. I hated him with all of my heart. He made me so scared of other people that I couldn't bear to think about him or look at him. And I just couldn't bear that people like that existed. And then the trial was really publicized. And I was watching the trial one day and I hadn't seen him before in the courtroom. And thousands of people were coming out for Polly, like thousands and thousands and thousands all over the country, all over the world. The courtroom was packed outside of the courtroom was packed to like support Polly class. And then I saw this man, Richard Allen Davis, and he was all alone. Like his parents weren't even in the courtroom. No one on planet earth wanted the best for him,

you know, including me. And I remember feeling like so complicated, like, oh my God, I really don't want people like that to exist. But also, like, as a kid, like, you don't want to know that you can just end up all alone, and that no one cares about you. And I remember looking at him and just crying and feeling like somebody like, what could he possibly done in his life? And to me, that is kind of at the root of what it is that I do, even in the most extreme of circumstances. And even though I was personally impacted by him, I still believe with all of my heart that he is worthy of love. And I actually believe that it's better for all of us that our safety, our safety is not in defending ourselves against each other. Our safety is in our ability to see each other and really, really love each other. We need more people who see the world that way, that compassion. Our system is so

fucking broken. And I think that it will have to fall, the younger generations, hopefully, to be able to come back with something better because it's broken. Something's been coming up a lot over the past few weeks, maybe months, is that self-inquiry and asking the right questions. A question that really provides some fruitful inquiry is who is somebody that offered you an important lesson growing up? Tell us about that moment. That can be really revealing to how somebody else has impacted you. And then I think also just this inquiry, like what Julian was saying, just asking yourself, what have been the turning points in your life? Just mapping them out. What are the choices that you made and the choices that were made for you

that impacted the trajectory of your life? And those questions can be really awesome, but sometimes they feel harder to answer. And so we really recommend making a life map. A life map is you just get a piece of paper and on the map, you start at the beginning and you map out influential people, turning points, moments of challenge, moments of celebration, moments that you'll never forget. You just map those out on a piece of paper, spend 45 minutes doing that. And the process of doing that, it's really good for those people who think, oh, I don't have a story. And you start to see all of these things that have made up your life. And you kind of witness what I was saying. Your life is not about what happened to you or about what you did. It's about

who you've chosen to be given that because you're sitting there doing that math and you have that wisdom inside of you. And now the question is, are you willing to share it? Are you willing to share with your kids, with your friends, with your partner? Are you willing to share it? Are you willing to share it with your kids, with your friends, with your partner? Are you willing to share it publicly? Whatever is right for you, but you being willing to be you and allow yourself to be known is a huge gift to the world. Those are great prompt questions too. Tell me about this million dollar or million dollar, that'd be nice if it was a million dollar, right? Million person project. What does your program look like? It looks a number of different ways.

I mean, just practically, we work with people one-on-one and we work with people in groups. A lot of times we work with organizations and it's about supporting everybody who makes up an organization to feel really like they have a clear sense of why they're there, of what the purpose is behind their work, the values that are guiding them. And how do they talk about it? When everybody in a given place can talk about whatever the work is and a really passionate, like kind of going back to what you were talking about when you were, the woman was on and you're like, she was hyped and I was hyped because she was hyped. So how can you get everyone coming from a place where they really light up and they don't feel on the spot,

but they feel like, yeah, I'm so glad you asked me about that. This is what it's about for me. So, you know, we do that with individuals and with organizations, but I think the beauty, it's really about helping people to turn their gaze inward and like look at themselves and their stories without judgment, with a belief that they have like real wisdom and that their story holds something that only they can bring, right? That their story is one that only they can tell. And that's true for everybody, right? And so then if your story is something that only you can tell, then that means you have something off the world that nobody else does. And so I think a lot of our work is helping people to really understand that deeply. And we do that by having people turn towards their story

and look at all the things that have happened and sort of just be with that and then take a step back and make meaning of it and think about their values and how were their values shaped by a given story or given experiences. And it's like through that process, really, I think a lot of times our work

is about helping people just believe that their story or stories are worth sharing. As Heather noted earlier, a lot of times our work is about helping people just believe that their story or stories are worth sharing. As Heather noted earlier, a lot of times, you know, people feel like, oh, my story is too dark or hard or bring people down. Or the other one that we hear even more often, I would say is, oh, I don't really have a story. Oh, my story is boring. Oh, I just, you know, I'm just wherever. You probably have the best story. You know, and so people really minimize people either say I'm too much or I'm not enough. You know, that's where people really land when it comes to stories.

So most of our work is helping people to embody and truly believe for themselves that we always know that their story, they have a story, first of all. And we also believe that their story has value. So helping people to really wrestle with that for themselves and ultimately land in a place of like deep belief. So when people break through and say, OK, I'm ready to share. I mean, really, it's pretty simple. It's about we're we're helping to facilitate one million people to stand in their truest personal story and to speak their truth. And we believe that that will move the needle for us as a culture, like I said, to be more open and accepting of who we truly are. Do you guys have like specific platforms that you work with or that you feel is the most effective? Not really. I mean, we love when people do podcasts. We love when people do TED Talks. We love when people, you know, working in an organization and they start their meetings with their story.

Yeah. Imagine if the meeting started with 90 seconds about something that has guided the person in their life. What about teachers? Exactly. And it's so powerful for their students to get to see them as people. Be like, wow, you went through that? Right. And you're a teacher? My daughter, this year she started middle school.

I was so scared. I still am. I'm like, oh, God. But I tell you, the two teachers that she likes the most, it's because she knows personal things about them. She's like, she's hated math her whole life she loves math this year her teacher has adhd she doesn't believe in homework so much and lindsey's eric hensley's like i love this teacher it's so huge yeah you know and it's so funny because it's like that's such a great example of like what is possible when you're willing to be

more vulnerable open and share yourself right like that is so significant you're willing to be more vulnerable, open and share yourself, right? Like that is so significant. You think about this teacher, how many, how many years of kids is she going to work with? 20, 15, 20, 25, 10, whatever. That is so many kids that she's making an impact on. And she's offering an example of what leadership looks like. That is such through her weakness, through her weakness to her vulnerability and through showing her shortcomings yeah and so just that example is incredible and the way that it's opened her up to be more connected to those students and what that can mean I mean that can save kids lives honestly you know what I mean when they feel like oh there's just one person I can go to

and I know I can say scary stuff to them because they said scary stuff to me you know they shared some of the things that they were afraid to share. I can share that. And that might be a refuge that they need. Some teacher friends that I have in my life that I know that's what they bring in. It's like their kids adorn. You know, there's such an important touchstone for those kids. Okay.

So, y'all, I'm from Gen X. You guys are Gen X? Yeah. You guys are Gen X or millennial? We're born in early. I was born in the 80s. She's 83. So right in the middle. But born in the 80s. She's 80s. But you know, I have a hard time remembering

my teachers sometimes. I'm like, I can't remember not one teacher in my senior year. But I can remember this one second grade teacher and this one sixth grade teacher. So I think that's maybe why. Because I do know a little bit of their personal story.

It matters. Thank you, guys. You guys are so beautiful. I'm so moved right now. You're welcome. Thank you so much for having us. Yeah, this has been really wonderful. Appreciate you. You guys could have been talking about popcorn and I still would have been like, oh my God. I feel it from you. I feel it. Every time you speak, Heather, I feel your compassion, that divine feminine that is rising in the collective. Yeah. And she finally found her voice. It's a space, and I love that you just hold that space for her to do so.

You guys are a beautiful couple and a beautiful example. What a lucky little boy Roman is. Can you tell me how he has impacted your journey? Oh my goodness. Oh geez. What way hasn't he? Man, it's just the most incredible thing. See somebody just become a human in front of your eyes and like the way that, you know,

the questions he asks. Our work is all about questions. It's all about the questions that you ask people to help them think about themselves and their own story in new and different ways. And so to have somebody who is so practiced at asking questions and who sees the world in different ways and like because of the context that he's still learning, can think about a situation in a completely different way than you would ever think to think about, you know, I feel like that has been a real gift that he's offered is just his, the question asking in the sort of starting from zero in any given situation and being like, okay, well, what is it? What does any of it mean? Yeah, I mean, it's been so amazing with him.

And it's also been something like a new level of integrity with myself because i went on this epic journey in april to palestine where i was walking this you did this little peace trail yeah oh so this must really be hitting you hard yeah so this is hitting me so hard the war in gaza has impacted my every minute since it started. And so Roman notices that. Roman will be like, Mommy, why are you sad? I get to decide in that moment, what do I say? I'm sad because people are getting hurt. I'm sad because of violence.

I'm sad because of whatever I choose to say impacts his story a lot and how he sees the world. And so I want to say the thing that is only true to me. I don't want to say the thing that's like, I'm just raging about in the moment, you know, or that I'm politically motivated. He's asking me how I am. And I want to be able to tell him that, but I notice how careless I can be with my words. When you see a four-year-old and you have to introduce them to

the concept of war, it makes you really have to be like, I need to get an integrity with myself and what I believe about this before I open my mouth. This impacts the way that he sees bad guys and good guys and who are those bad guys and good guys when actually in my heart of hearts, I don't believe that. I don't believe that there is somebody who is a whole bad guy. I believe that every bad guy is available to be a good guy too and vice versa and then what am i saying you know so anyway he's really impacted my own integrity with my words i know they're that my kids have been my greatest teachers i have so much hope for the future when i hear stuff like this and when i see my younger daughter and how she is she's very very aware of the world. And there is a double-edged sword

in that too, because I didn't know about war and about vaccinations and about climate change and all these things when I was 11. It's a different world and they have an opportunity to reach that compassionate place heather that you were talking about and i think that's what the world's missing i think it's what it means well tell us where we can find you at million person project on instagram very very very cool also oh throw out your book too oh yeah you can you can get our book on Bookshop or you can get it on Amazon or wherever you buy books or you can get it at your bookstore to order it. And it's called How Your Story Sets You Free

by Chronicle Book. A really quick read. And we tried to make it a really combination of inspiration, insight, and how to. So some of the exercises we talked about today are in the book. So the idea is that we do that work of helping anybody who's reading it to see that their story has power and then offer some insights and tools and practices to actually uncover, well, what might that story be and who

are you sharing it? That's what the book is all about. Very, very cool. Thank you guys so much. I really appreciate you guys coming on and what you're doing. It's been a pleasure meeting you. Yeah, likewise. Have a good day. You too. Thanks for listening to Sense of Soul Podcast. And thanks to our special guests for joining me. If you want more of Sense of Soul, check out my website at www.mysenseofsoul.com, where you can work with me one-on-one or help support sense of soul podcast by donating to my coffee fund thanks for listening