Sense of Soul - The Power of Vunerability

Episode Date: April 29, 2022

Today on Sense of Soul Podcast, we have the talented co-creators of the newly released and most gorgeous book, “Exposure - Stories in Honor of Humanity.”  Photographer and designer Kelly Shroads (one of Mande’s oldest and dearest friends)and scribe and story curator, April Tierney, joined us to share the creative process, and experience in creating this beautiful and inspiring book. Exposure is a collaborative masterpiece of images and stories in honor of our humanity, a collection of courage, candor, grace, longing, and heartache.  Their intention in this project was to bring human conditions out of its “steel box of pretense, prejudice, and misunderstanding, and back into the light of an average life and ordinary heart.” It asks the reader to look deep into the face of our authenticity, in order to excavate the beautiful, whole, vibrant people we were each born here to be.” Together they interviewed over sixty people from a wide range of life experiences, ages, and cultural backgrounds to participate in this project, to share their authentic personal stories. Kelly Shroads captured so beautifully, the authentic portraits of each storyteller and April Tierney transcribed a reliable and poetic unrehearsed rendering of their raw stories they shared. Get their beautiful collaboration book Exposure here! https://www.exposure-book.com  April Tierney poet, collaborative artist, mother, and lover of stories. Her background is steeped in the study of language, culture, artisanship, and the skills of human-making. She is the author of three full length collections of poetry; Memory Keeper, Origin Stories, and Singing to the Bones. April is also the co-founder of Fire Feeders, a women's writing collective along the foothills of the Colorado Rocky Mountains. www.apriltierney.com  https://www.homeboundpublications.com Kelly Shroads has an Artist soul she is a gifted photographer, entrepreneur and wellness advocate. Kelly graduated from the University of Colorado with a Fine Arts degree in Photography, and has pursued a path in art, portrait and lifestyle work. Her professional career has been a documentary journey of the human experience, from intimate and group portrait work, to ceremonies, births, and community events. Her lifestyle photography focuses on empowering women to shine in the fields of health, creativity and wellbeing.  https://www.kellyeileen.co https://www.luxurysparobes.com https://instagram.com/kellyeileen.co?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= Visit our website to learn more about Sense of Soul Podcast. www.mysenseofsoul.com Join our Sense of Soul Patreon!! Our community of seekers and lightworkers who get exclusive workshops, live events like SOS Sacred Circles, ad free episodes and more. You can also listen to Mande’s mini series about her two NDE’s and Shanna’s Untangled mini series. Sign up today and help support our podcast. https://www.patreon.com/senseofsoul  

Welcome to the Sense of Soul podcast. We are your hosts, Shanna and Mandy. Grab your coffee, open your mind, heart and soul. It's time to awaken. Today on Sense of Soul, I am probably more excited than normal because I have on one of my dearest longtime friends. We have been friends since, gosh, we were probably how old? Kindergarten. Wow. And she has just been a beautiful light in my life. My children even always comment about how they hope that they can keep friends from when they're children up into adulthood. adulthood and Kelly has been an inspiration to me as far as the challenges she's faced in her life

and just what she has done with those challenges. I will also openly admit that she awakened way before I did. And I remember thinking back when she was way more awake. What the hell is this woo-woo shit Kelly's talking about? And then it kind of inspired me to start looking into energy and oneness. And a lot of what Kelly was doing really inspired me to kind of dig a little bit deeper. So Kelly, thank you for joining us today. You know, I just adore you. Thanks, Sandy. That's really sweet. I adore you so much too.

Yeah. And then we have on her dear friend, April. So April and Kelly wrote together this beautiful book called Exposure. And that's what we're going to be talking about today. And it's so aligns with sense of soul because our listeners know that I absolutely love stories. And I think by sharing our stories, it helps to create connection and it also helps people to have understanding. And Shanna, if you don't mind sharing with them, I thought it'd be really cool for you to tell them how you and I thought about the word

vulnerability when we first started our journey. Yeah, that's what I thought it'd be really cool for you to tell them how you and I thought about the word vulnerability when we first started our journey. Yeah, that's what I thought about really when I looked at your book and so beautiful. Gosh, I mean, vulnerability to me was a weakness. You don't tell people about anything that you might have flawed or wrong or anything bad in your life because that's going to be a weakness. You just don't share your business with people. I mean, you don't even burp or fart. We don't do that.

It is just hush. And we don't want anyone to know our dark night of the soul. Basically. What's interesting is that Mandy, when we first start podcasting, it was within the first year, she kept on talking about how great it is to be vulnerable. And I'm looking at her going, no, no, no, no. And you're putting way too much of your shit out there. Well, her and I have a conversation about it, how we saw it so differently. I think a big part of my journey through this podcast was finding my own vulnerability and understanding how, you know, sharing your sufferings and your

story actually, you know, helps you connect with others and how beautiful that is. So I love that, that you girls did a book sharing people's stories, because now I think that is like one of the most powerful things as humans we can do. Absolutely. And Kelly, if you want to just jump in really fast and talk about the title of your book, Exposure. I love that word. What does that word mean to you? And maybe if April after Kelly talks, if you want to maybe define it and talk about what that word means to you. Yeah, absolutely. You know, choosing the book title was difficult because like you touched on Shannon, vulnerability is a tough thing, but it's also really beautiful. You know, part of the book is really this mirroring of someone's beautiful face and their story, which both can be vulnerable, you know, to have yourself photographed so kind of intimately

the way that we did in this book, and to have these precious heartfelt things on the page. So, you know, initially, I think our title was Through Our Eyes. And then we changed it to Exposure, which still to me sometimes feels a little bit uncomfortable because it feels like we're exposing people, which isn't always seen as a good thing. But when you look at it from a photography standpoint, it's about revealing an image through light. And it really is an exposure on a piece of film. And it allows this image to come forth through light. So it's very simple, but it also has shadow. There's light and shadows. So that's kind of how we landed on this title

and we still feel really good about it. And it does touch on some discomfort, but I think that's okay. Yeah, I agree. Like walking that edge of what's comfortable and what's uncomfortable and asking us together, all of us who participate in the book to stand maybe more so on the side of discomfort, which is where growth and power and transformation actually occurs. Being in that place together, because Kelly and

I also are in the book, we shared our stories, which felt incredibly vulnerable and still do to have those out there. We understand to a certain degree what the participants have felt being in this book and that quality of feeling exposed. Because Shanna, I relate with a lot of what you said as far as I don't share much about myself and I keep that private and that's considered a weakness to be vulnerable. Kelly and I have bumped up against a lot of that throughout this project. But in the end, I want to be someone who's just real and honest and open-hearted. And we can't be those things unless we're bringing all of ourselves, which doesn't always look pretty and isn't always polished.

So perhaps that's something in the territory of exposure, just letting ourselves be human and raw and real. I love it. I love the word exposure. And, you know, for Shanna, it was interesting because the way she thought about exposing herself and being vulnerable was an ancestral pattern for her. And so then I looked at how I was brought up and as Kelly knows, because she's known my family for so long, like there's just no filter when it comes to me and my mom and my grandmother, like we just throw it all out there. So it's interesting how we were both just brought up differently.

I'm going to go back a moment. I want to learn about both of you. So Kelly, if you could tell our listeners just a little bit about your childhood and college and what got you into photography and what photography means to you. Yeah. So I grew up in Aurora, which is a gigantic suburb of Denver, Colorado. And, you know, I would say that it was a simple life. I had great friends, you know, I could walk to school, my sister and I, my one and only

sibling, I do have step brothers and sisters now, but we had a really simple life. My mom was a teacher. My dad was a salesman and we kept life pretty simple. You know, what got me into photography was really traveling with my dad. So my dad was into photography. He was kind of the family documentarian. And I just connected with that. I really connected with my dad. You know, my mom was more of the disciplinary

in the family and my dad was more like the fun friend. He was always making jokes and going on adventures and trips. And with his career, he was a traveling salesman. So I really connected with that. And a couple of times he would take me on his trips and he would just kind of hand me his camera. And that's what I would do when he was working was kind of play with the camera and run around. And then he gave me my first camera, which was his old camera. And then I just I really started connecting with photography as a way to both, I think, kind of escape and create at the same time. So it gave me a way to look at the world and create something that wasn't exactly as simple or real as life. It was on one hand, because photography is the most direct form of art, I would say. But it also was just really fun for me to use as a tool to play. And then in high

school, I took photography classes and I became like, you know, the school photographer with my friends and DECA was like a marketing club that I was in. And I did the photography for that. And I think from the beginning, as I would learn to print images and share them with others, it became this really beautiful conversation. People love seeing the photos and it was just a really great way for me to engage with people. I think to a degree, I was a bit shy. I don't know if Mandy would agree with that, but I think from our group of friends, I was probably the most shy. And so photography was a way to express myself without speaking. You know, it was a visual art and it was a great way for me to engage with others. And

yeah, and I did photography in high school and then I went to college and at CU Boulder and I was really, really interested in psychology at the time because my parents had just gotten divorced and I was like in this whole, you know, existential crisis a little bit through that. And I became really engaged with psychology. And the first couple of classes I took, I was like, oh my gosh, that's a lot. You know, I don't know if I can do it. And then I was interested in astronomy. And I took, again, a couple of classes in that. I was like, oh my God, I don't know if I can be a physicist, know and so I was like well I want to be an artist and I think photography feels like the thing I know best and it's also the thing that

I could apply myself to in a career I felt safe with that in the arts and so that kind of led me to my path and I got a degree in photography at from CU Boulder in 98 so that's kind of the history of that while you were talking about it I was thinking how very present you have to be when you take pictures right you're so present with whatever you're focused on and trying to capture and I'm sure that you learned that easier than most people because of that because you were seeing through this lens nature, which I know you're very connected to. Yeah. And it's also kind of like a way to slightly remove yourself from people. It kind of, it's this layer. So as a shy person, it was kind of a great way for me to witness and be observant. And like you said, be really present. You know, it's fascinating, because as I developed

into my career, you know, I was a documentary wedding photographer, and it was almost like you were invisible, you wanted to make yourself invisible, which has its dark side as well. But really being able to observe what's going on around you is definitely a skill and an art and a way to connect. But again, like I said, there is a little bit of a dark side to that. That is amazing. I think I probably wouldn't be a good wedding photographer. I'd be crying and hanging out with the family. I would have been drinking with them and they would have gotten pictures. Yeah. I mean, when people would approach me, it'd be like uncomfortable

because I'm like, oh, you see me? I'm actually here. As a skill, you really kind of remove yourself from a scenario. It's different with portraiture. With portraiture like this book, it's very engaging and you have to be very connected

to the person that you're working with. It's different with documentary work, which tends to be how connected to the person that you're working with. It's different with documentary work, which is tends to be how most photographers, not all, but a lot of photographers get started because it's kind of easier. You get to just watch what's going on. I love that. Besides selfies, the only thing I'm hoping to capture may be some paranormal. Yes, girl. Yes. Have you ever had your aura photographed yeah yeah yeah yeah april you're a poet a collaborative artist an activist and a lover of stories so if you could kind of take us back a little bit and tell us about you and what brought you to what you do today. So I have been writing stories, short stories and poetry since I could hold a pencil. So it's really what I was born here,

loving to do and knowing how to do and wrote all in my spare time as a child growing up. And my favorite class was English and creative writing. But as I got into my early teens, I was that gangly, thin, long, young girl. And I found my way into modeling somehow, not by really choice or something that I had always dreamt of. I shouldn't say not by choice because I wasn't forced into it. Obviously I went with a girlfriend who really wanted to be a model to this agency and they were interested in me and not her, which was kind of devastating for our friendship. But it took me on this whole path for 14 years, all through my teens and most of my 20s as a model. For someone who was meant to be a writer, that was a really conflictual and confusing role to be in because I was being paid to be quiet,

to stand there and to wear clothes and to smile, but have nothing to say. So I learned throughout my younger years, as I was coming of age to be quiet, to keep everything to myself, to not have a whole lot going on in my internal world that was of value or that I thought other people might value to share with anyone. And at the same time, I became very curious about the people around me and the stories they were carrying. It was like intuitively I knew that because I was showing up and not sharing with the world who I was, because that's what I was being paid to do, others must be doing the same thing. And I became more and more curious about the stories that people were carrying, which is why working on this project of Kelly

was so exciting for me because up until that point, really my experience with photography was very objectifying. It wasn't beautiful. It wasn't artful. The photographs were manipulated. There was a lot of Photoshop. I sat for like an hour getting my makeup done. And on top of that, my image was altered. And really it was in service to consumerism, to people looking at these images and then wanting to buy the things that I was wearing, as opposed to, you know, having some sort of soulful or heart expansive experience by looking at the images, which if you're familiar with Kelly's photography or you see this book, that's exactly what her work does. It's so heart expanding and real. Like there's not touching up and there's not manipulation.

It's like she captures the rawness of in this project humanity, but of course in her nature images as well, there's such a real essence that she touches into that I felt really excited to be a part of because I think I really did have some judgments around photography because my experience of it, again, was so objectifying. So to be able to come back to it in a way that felt empowering and beauty making even was exciting. And then to bring in the stories. So to listen to the people who had said yes to being a part of this project, listen to the things that they were carrying in their hearts, and then being able to transcribe those stories and lay them

down onto the page next to these beautiful images felt like an honor for me. I'm a poet and that really came into my role in this project as far as people would share their stories with us. Typically they were a half an hour to an hour long and then I would need to whittle it down to the pure essence and find something that could fit on a single page. That's got to be so hard. It was so hard. I spent hours with each person's story. And that's actually what I do as a poet. I write short poems is I, I whittle the words down to, so that only the bare essential words stand on the page. There's not a lot of extra room for fluff. It's just finding the ones that speak to the heart of what I'm trying to say. And so that was my role with each person's story too, using their words. They weren't my

words. I didn't manipulate, you know, what they had to say at all, but it was, you know, taking out the filler words and finding just the essence of the story itself. Well, one thing that I thought about was the irony and the fact that I wanted to be a model and one of Kelly's like projects was she took me to Cherry Creek Reservoir and took pictures of me like modeling some clothes that's so funny huh Kelly? Mandy that was literally one of my first the first time I felt like oh I think I could make it as a photographer. And then it was really interesting to think about like the reasons we do things. Like I got into modeling because I felt like people only liked me for my outsides. So I thought, well, if that's what people like, then maybe I can make a career of it.

But what ended up happening was I kind of put myself out there and really use like my sexuality and like my looks to manipulate like life and what I wanted. So it's really interesting how things like affect us. I think it's beautiful that you kind of both knew from a younger age, something that lit your light, because on our podcasts, we talked to a lot of people that are in their 40s and 50s who are still looking for their purpose. And April, it sounds like from a pretty young age, you kind of knew in your heart, what you wanted to do. You were, you love to write and Kelly in high school, you kind of got that spark that photography was your thing. What would your advice be for these people that are listening, who are still trying to find their purpose?

I would say to go back to what you were interested in as a kid, before all the cultural conditioning came in, that told you you had to be a certain way. Like you just said, Mandy, like that you thought people cared most about your looks. I did too. And so everything that I really was interested in, which was creativity through words, got set aside because I was trying to just please others instead of following that path that was already laid out before me. So perhaps that's what I would say. Go back to when you were a child, what were you drawn to that no one had to ask you to do that? You loved spending your time following the butterflies or sitting and drawing or listening to your parents tell stories of your grandparents. And I love it. I too saw that in myself. And you know what now today with my daughter, my youngest, I very much

encourage her. You know, I see her passions and I see the things that she's good at. And I really highlight those things. And I'm letting that guide me, you know, and guide her, not what the world says or anything else. And that's how it should have been. Just think how freaking amazing we all would have been if we would have been raised off of our passions. Holy shit. Maybe the world will change. What about you, Kelly? You know, I would, what comes up for me initially is I was listening to an audio book. I think the author was Elizabeth Gilbert and she was talking about the creative process. And she was speaking to a large group of people. And her advice to this question was like, follow your passion, you know, and she got a lot of feedback from that almost like angry people coming to her and saying,

I don't know what my passion is. Like, how can you tell me that it makes me feel like there's something wrong with me, because I don't know what my passion is. And so she kind of went through this process of readdressing her audience and saying, you know what, it's more about following your curiosity. And so if you can explore the world and your life in a way that feels less pressure, like having to choose a passion, take something that you're curious about and follow that and then see where that thing takes you and follow that. And then along the way, you're going to find something that feels like your truth. And it may be a process, but that can be part of the magic is kind of surrendering to that process and not

feeling the pressure of like choosing one thing. Mandy, what did that one guy say in that, that you love so much? He said, what breaks your heart? Yeah. Ask yourself what breaks your heart. So like, for example, I asked my son and he said the way we treat our oceans and I go, then that's your passion. And so when you go to college, think of something that you can intertwine that with a degree and choose to do for the rest of your life. So I loved that. I loved that question. Kelly, you know, speaking of whittling, you had to whittle down, too. I mean, I can't imagine you only took one picture of each person. Oh yeah. So how was that process for you? I mean,

some of the photographs, people are smiling and holding things. Some are like looking very serious. Like how did you connect with these photographs to pick the one out of probably hundreds you took of each person? I love this question because as photographers, we do take hundreds of photos. We have to whittle it down, like you said, to the one that really speaks to you. And the cool thing about this project is we kept the portrait portion of it pretty simple. We wanted it to not feel too intimidating. We asked people to wear something that they would just wear to a coffee date with a friend. We wanted it to just be really honest and truthful. So I only spent honestly five to 10 minutes with each person. Really the way that I did that was sit with them

and really look them in the eye and just get to know them briefly. And as I would work with them, you know, sometimes I would say, okay, take a deep breath and maybe close your eyes for a moment and think about what you're going to share with us. Kind of feel what that might feel like. And then, okay, now open your eyes and look into the camera like you would maybe look into a friend's eyes. Those kind of prompts, which again, like I said, about documentary photography, you're more just witnessing people as they are. But portraiture is really an intimate conversation with someone else because you want to capture their true essence, but at the same time they have this camera in their face and it can feel very exposing. So to choose the best photograph, I didn't have too many to work with,

but it was really, there's something about like when people have like a sparkle in their eye, where not in a cheesy way, but something that just feels real. Like it was probably that moment that I asked them to take a deep breath, connect with themselves and then open their eyes. It's the ones that feel like the person is actually looking at you as a viewer. And even though there's this camera in between, it's those moments where they forget that the camera is there and they can connect with who might be listening to their story or holding space for them on the other side. Kelly, I love that because I mean, I was almost feeling like, and I did look at many of the pictures and I, I mean, they're so authentic. Like you can see

how very vulnerable, you know, they were willing to be through their eyes. None of them looked fake. That would have ruined it if you just sort of put like a headshot. Yeah. Yeah. And you know they were willing to be through their eyes none of them looked fake that would have ruined it if you just would have put like a headshot yeah yeah and you know some people didn't want to be serious but I do sometimes feel like the essence of who we are is just no big smiles just just be and like take a breath yeah I think that's really beautiful and and for the people that wanted to smile and do more of an expressive version of themselves. That's great, too think the essence of your story, I need to pair that with a different sort of an image. And so we did that on occasion, but for the most part, we got it the first time around. My ego gets in the way of pictures. So if you were to say, oh, you know, let me see Sense of Soul, which I think you probably did because you did do a photo photo shoot with us. You know, I'm like, Oh yeah. Sense of soul. Oh, I got to look cute.

Right. You know, it was like different. And then I think of someone's picture, like recently, Ethan just did my son, you know, he's on the spectrum who just did his senior pictures. There's very little ego with Ethan. So all you see is eyes. It's all you see his eyes. I shit you not. It's crazy. Like you're drawn into his eyes. Like every picture it's intense because there's no like faking or trying to be cute or nothing like that. It's, it's very emotional almost. Yeah. And that's where we came up with that original title, Through Our Eyes, because these photographs, you do feel like you're peering into their eyes and that's like a huge window into the soul, right?

To not be cliche, but it's true. April, what was your overall intent with this book? Well, I think to go back to my curiosity of what people carry, we see so many people every day at the grocery store, driving through traffic, feeling frustrated at the person next to us for whatever reason, and we have no idea what they're carrying yeah and I think as we continue to live in more and more of a hostile divided world it's so powerful to pause for a moment and to remember that the person next to us that won't get out of the way is a human being. I think dehumanizing others is pretty lazy, but it's something that we do when we're in a rush or when we're feeling strapped ourselves for whatever reason. So I think that it's healing for the times that we're living in.

Yeah. And that is something that I feel when I sit with these stories and I look into these faces and I see the things that these people have lived through, the courage and the tenderness and the honesty, it gives me strength to continue on. And as we were writing this book, the story that I share in the book was of my mom dying of cancer. That happened during the years that we were working on it. And it was a horrible time in my life. My days were so hard to get through. That's something that kept me going with this project is that I'd show up, I'd listen to other people and somehow they made it through these really big experiences. And I kept putting one foot in front of the other, but it's true. It gave me courage. I don't know if I would have survived those years had it not been for this project.

Like getting out of my own story and being able to be with someone else in theirs for a time. And remembering I'm not the only one in the world who goes through hard things. We're all faced all the time with immense challenge and heartbreak and beauty too. There's a lot of that in this book as well. Just so much beauty. I'm so sorry for your loss. I lost my dad. And as we get older, I see a lot of this and it's just, it's just so sad getting older, but Mandy and I were making a deck and we had to do this several different times. And I'm just wondering if you guys ran into this because I know Kelly, you said after April wrote some of

these things you wanted to go back and take another picture so like when I would create a card the art you know Mandy would maybe do writing but it didn't really tell the story of the card so then we're like oh crap okay well maybe we should do the art first and then do the writing so that way you're able because when you you see it, you want to be able to tell the story of what they're visualizing, you know, or what they can see. It's about alignment, right? Like, I think that this project is so much about trying to capture someone's truth. And I think sometimes when we go out into the world, we put on these masks and these faces to show up in a certain way. It's not always in alignment with how we feel or who we are. And so the process

of creating a beautiful portrait that captures someone's essence and pairing it with a story that wasn't really meant to be, you know, about who this person is. These stories are not about, okay, this is my life story. This is who I am. This is just something that I experienced and that I went through and that I maybe overcame or that I carry with me, but it's really about letting the image and the story kind of blend into one and be aligned. And I think that taught both of us so much about just showing up as we are in the world and, you know, and in the creative process, like what you're talking about with your deck, it's like, it's the same thing when we create something, sometimes we're bringing to it like a projection of what we want it to be or what we want it to look like, but that's not

exactly what it is. And so we may have to go back and be more honest about what we're trying to share with the world through our work. Do you want to add anything to that, April? I guess what I would add, putting a punctuation mark on the end of what Kelly just said, as far as we have a projection or an expectation of what our work is going to look like. And I believe that everything we create is alive. So if this is a living thing that we're in service to, it has its own idea of what it wants to be. And it very likely is not revealed to us in the beginning, but through actually the devotion of working on and towards the project itself, then it starts to reveal, okay, this is how I want to look, or this is the feeling that I'd like to create when someone holds, holds me in their hands or, you know, views, views me through their eyes. So I really think it's about listening. That's so

true for the work I do as a writer. It's all about listening to the piece or the project itself. Like what is wanting to be told here? Like what is the story that wants to come through this image this particular project? Yeah. Yeah. You know, what you shared was very powerful. I don't know why, but I keep going back to the beginning of this interview. Like the miracles really do happen in the discomfort, right? They happen in the challenges. And it sounds like this project for you, April, became like divine timing as well.

I mean, it helped you to get out of bed and helped you with the pain of losing your mom. So, you know, you started it as one thing and it became alive and became like this, almost like therapy and this story for you. I mean, that's so beautiful. Thank you. Yeah, it was like a life raft, I would say.

And I'll also say that being able to put this story out there after my mom died was relieving or a bit easier for me than had she been alive. And that's something that we noticed with a lot of the people in the book, that it was hard to put the stories out there, knowing that maybe people in their lives would read them and judge them or have hard feelings for what they had to say. So I think in my case, it felt a bit easier because the story was about her and about the process of her dying than if she was alive and she had to read those words. That was something that we came up against a lot throughout this. People pulled out, a number of people pulled out because they were just uncomfortable in the end, having anyone read their stories. And I don't credit that to any person in particular, but I,

again, look at the hostility of the world that we're living in and how people are very judgmental. And it's sad that we can't just show up as who we are and stand. And this is my experience. It might not be yours. It might not be the way that you saw this certain thing, but this is how I experienced it. And it's okay that I have a different perspective than you have. And I'm going to share that. But because we live in the times that we do, a lot of people have felt very self-conscious, uncomfortable with having themselves seen in that way, which feels sad to me. Yeah, it's interesting. When I first read the title exposure, I thought of, I'm a words person.

I sat with that word and I thought of being naked. You know, you're being exposed, you're naked. you're stripping everything off and you're just exposing yourself. And part of me was like, Whoa, you know, um, that it does feel uncomfortable, but that's really what you're doing. Um, and, and the irony in that is, is that's how we all start out on earth is naked. So why are we so uncomfortable with it? It's because we've been conditioned to believe we have to be something or be perfect or, you know, um, I will say, um, and Shannon, I know you have a question, but I just wanted to add real fast is divine timing about happening during your challenge. I also think it was divine timing as far as when it was put out, when it was released, because

when I look at just even the cover, I see so many different people from so many different places from all over the world that look so different. You even have someone, you know, in a wheelchair, all different colored skins, different color hair, different color eyes, different color physiques. And right now, you know, we're, Shannon and I recently are really trying to talk a lot about this separation and about race. And, and so, you know, with, with where we're at, I think people are starting to take a look past the physical. And when I looked at your book, it showed me, you know what, we all look so different, but we all also have a lot of similarities, challenges, pain, no matter where we're from, no matter what we look like. And that's what I felt when I held it. And I think that a lot of people in the world need to realize that, you know, it doesn't matter.

That's what Sense of Soul is about. It's learning that we're all energy and that we're all just a soul, that this is just the shell. This is just the human shell. And so I loved the book for that reason too. One of the reasons we chose to work with black and white images is for that reason to really unify the essence of these images. It's like, we're all just different shades of light and shadow. And the subtitle of the book is Stories in Honor of Our Humanity. We really do all share so much of the same experiences. Some days it's like it's hard to read it. It's like you're already carrying enough of your own stuff and then you read something about someone else's. And it's like too much. But some days I sit with it and I just I get filled up with gratitude for all these courageous people and

what they've been willing to share. What I think they don't know that we see is that there are this beautiful pool of people that all shared in this experience of contributing to this book and what courage that took. And I think one day we will get them all together. It also came out right before the pandemic. And, you know, part of our plans were to bring all these people together into one place. And we've done a couple of those experiences where we've done readings in person and to see how each person connected with each other about this unified experience was so sweet. I mean, like, it was so sweet. It would be like this beautiful group hug of like, we all did this, you know, and we're all part of this bigger thing. And that's also what this book is. It's like, it's bigger than our one story of our life.

It's a beautiful conglomeration of a bunch of humans from different places all over the world, and that we can truly come together and be vulnerable together. And it's a powerful thing when we do that. How did you come to get to all of these amazing people who shared their stories? Were they lining up to share their shit with everybody? Or did you know them personally? Where to find them? A lot of the people we asked, we did know. And then a lot of the people were then sent to us from those people. And so it kind of started to blossom out in an organic way. I wouldn't say people were lining up.

No, we had a good amount who would come in very apprehensive. Like, what is this whole thing you're doing? Do I trust you to share my story? I'm remembering one native man who spoke to us for an hour and the first half an hour, he was speaking about other things. It wasn't the story he wanted to tell us. And then at one point he shifted and he said to us, in my culture, this is what we do. We don't go straight to the story. We warm up a bit and we see if the one that we're speaking to is trustworthy. And now that I've sat with you for this amount of time, I'm ready to tell you my story. So of course we've recorded

the whole thing because everything was recorded. And then, you know, I later would go back through the whole recording and find the story. But there was a shift there of like, okay, now I've laid the feast at the table. Now I can share with you why I'm here and what it is that I'd like to contribute to your book. I felt like that was probably the experience with a lot of the people who came in. We were just trying to find each other at first. And I wonder if you experience this, you know, being hosts of podcasts, it's like, okay, we don't know one another, but how do we find the thing that we want to say here? Yeah, it definitely requires trust and other people's podcasts when they're interviewing me about my personal stories and who am I talking to?

Who's going to listen? There's all these fears. What were you looking for in the stories? What kind of story were you searching for to share? You know, we kind of established up front that we wanted, we didn't want these stories, like I said earlier, to be like, okay, this is my life story. We wanted someone to share something that impacted their life in a powerful way. And the way that we asked them to share was maybe come with a few

ideas of something that has truly impacted your life, or maybe changed the course of your life, or, you know, invited you to awaken or something that feels really meaningful to you and something that you maybe haven't shared before. It can be anything really. So people came with all different ideas. And one of the most powerful examples of this, it was really beautiful to watch this man came and he sat down with us and he said, you know, I listened to your question and I just, I don't know that I have anything, you know, I don't know that I have the right thing to share. And we said, okay, well, you know, you have a couple of ideas. And he said, yeah, I have a couple of ideas. And we said in the moment,

well, which one feels bigger, which one feels more powerful for you? And he said, no, I guess I'll share about my dad. And this story was, I mean, they all are so impactful, but the fact that he showed up and said, I don't know if I have anything worth sharing. And I was just all inspired by how much resilience this man went through with this interaction with his father and how he supported him and what that experience was like for him. It was so big and it just was a testament to how as we kind of walk through the world, we don't realize like how we are impacted by the things that we carry in our life. And we sometimes think like, oh, it's no big deal. We're just, we're minimizing all the time. So this book, I think was a beautiful

experience of like honoring these stories for these people. And the question was really simple. Just share something with us that feels powerful for you. It doesn't need to be like who you are. It's something that you've experienced that changed you or shaped you as a person. And you shared personally yourself about your pain and how it impacted you. You shared your pain and then turned it into purpose. I think that's what storytelling does. It gives your pain a purpose to help others, to let them know that they're not alone, to let them know maybe a little bit of encouragement, like you can get through it.

You're supported, you're loved, you're okay. There's others out there. I mean, everyone's pain is different or experiences, but I mean, isn't that why we're all here, you know, should be connected. Yeah. And I think sometimes when we're like really in our pain or in our suffering, we kind of question like, how am I going to get through this? How am I going to show up tomorrow or whatever? And I think kind of the metaphor of like turning the pages of this book, it's like just one step at a time, one foot in front of the other. And, you know, we're all going to be okay. Sometimes we're not okay in that, like it's okay too, because we all have been through times where we're not okay, but that if we can know that we're not alone and we can see others getting through their stuff and moving ahead one day at a time. It gives us hope

and unity with others. So interesting because I read it probably a hundred times and every time I read it, I feel differently about it. And even though it's my story, like my experience was similar to, I mean, I don't know what others have experienced directly. I've talked to a few of the participants, but, you know, sharing my story was somewhat painful because my family and friends have always known me as this bright, cheerful person who, you know, always positive. And, you know, the people really close to me maybe knew like the pain that I was experiencing. But when I shared this book with my family, it was really painful for them to hold this story. And I didn't

get the response I was looking for. I wanted them to be like, good job for sharing this. Like, you're so courageous. And like, I'm so proud of you. And what ended up happening was like, they kind of internalized some of it. Like, I'm so sorry. I had no idea. I'm a bad mom. I should have been there for you more. Or, you know, like, this is too much. I can't handle this. Like, so I think said, but in a different way, sharing this from a really truthful place, instead of like, no, it's fine. I'm good. Like I've figured out a way to cope with this and I'm great. You know, it's more like really sharing the truth of it has really helped me let go of the weight of that, of how that impacted my life. It really has let me kind of move forward and be like,

okay, yeah, this is something that I deal with on the daily, but it's okay. And that's where I think I want to encourage other people to share is that while it's very scary and you may not get the response that you're looking for from others, it's really about you and your healing process to sharing those things, whether it's with a friend or in your journal or with a therapist or whatever it may be through a blog, you know, those are the things and Mandy, you could probably really speak to this is that sharing really like lifts the weight off of what you might be experiencing in life. Yeah, absolutely. I will say I'm very, very open about my entire story and 95% of the response that I get is positive. And the other five, because I'm such an empath, they'll latch out at me or they'll make it about

them. I have to really take a step back and go, okay, that's theirs, not mine. And if it triggers them, then that's healing they need. And there's been times where I've let it bring me down, but then I remember that. And then I sit with it and I know, um, isn't, you know, it's all about that intention. And my intention was to just tell my Girls, I was making rugs. I was making, I made a little beer, you know, holder for Jamie's beer. I mean, like literally I crocheted everything. My first rug I ever made, my friend Nisha, when she died and it was for, I think Mandy, was it for you? But anytime I was creating something and I was actually emotionally going through something, this thing was going through it with me. It like almost carried the energy of it. So I remember there was a few times where I was like, oh my God,

I'm going to have to give, I'm making it for someone else. It wasn't mine. And I was like, I'm going to have to give it to them. Even afterwards. I'm like, I wonder how it's doing. No, really. I was like, how's my, how's my rug? It was still part of me because it was attached to it.

Just so you know, the one you made me is doing amazing. It's still in Sloan's room. I love that. Yeah. There's like this emotional connection to the art that whatever's going on in your life sometimes kind of merges with it. And so then when putting it out there, I can, I can see in both of you, how very healing, you know, that was, yeah, it'll always be connected, like to your mom in some way,

right, April, during that time. Yeah. And I get to a place with whatever I'm working on, where it feels like it's too big for me to carry anymore on my own. So I wonder if it's with you at the rug, like truly it's too big. Now it's time for me to gift to my friend. It feels like this. It's like, Oh God, I think I've done. Yes. A hundred. Yes. So many times. Yes. Or started over just because I wanted to stay in that energy. Oh, but it's so beautiful that when you get to the point where it's not for you anymore,

don't subscribe to the whole belief that art making is for our own personal process. It can be, but it also is for the world. It is. Otherwise, why would we do it? It is to give to others. I do. I believe that's how the world. It is. Otherwise, why would we do it? It is to give to others. I do. I believe that's how the divine works through us, healing for you and then to share with the world. I mean, it's a beautiful piece of art on both ends. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much. And you know what else is beautiful? This just like spoke to me,

hit my soul when I read it again. But at the beginning, I think you said it's one of your favorite authors, Terry Tempest Williams. Do you mind sharing that with our listeners? Sure. Yeah, this opens the book. And it's from her book called Erosion. Early in our evolution, we discovered as homeo sapiens, through need and necessity, that our imaginations can summon power. Fire became a dream ignited that enabled us to feed ourselves and gather around to share stories. Stories are power. Power resides in community. When power is denied, it oppresses others. We can resist, and when we resist together, something else can occur. Something new emerges. This is the essence of erosion and evolution

in human time, in geologic time. Transformation can be slow or catastrophic and quick. It may be a cataclysmic moment, or it may happen incrementally over time. Deep change requires both. And it is not without its ruptures. It can be associated with devastation or determination. It can also be beautiful. Weathering agents are among us. This is a time of exposure. What do you guys hope that your readers will get from this? I mean, that's a big question because like we've been talking about, this project has become bigger than us. And so it's really like surrendered to what people will receive. We have no idea, but what we would hope is that their hearts would be touched,

that they would have a moment of calm and realizing that being human is hard and that they might feel some sense of peace, knowing that we're all in this together and that their stories and their experiences too, will be received with grace and love and just be inspired to be, to be inspired by other people's stories. Cause this is not just a book of heartache. You know, there's some really beautiful stories in here about what lets someone connect with their spirit or how they found God or their love story. There's so many beautiful stories in this book that speak to all ranges of life experience. And I would just hope that people feel inspired

and unified to a degree with the other people in their life that they know and the people that they don't know. And that maybe they'll start having a little bit more kindness and compassion for other people in general and break down some of the barriers that we hold and assumptions that we have about others. And just know that we actually are all here on this planet together, all of us. I add that people could read these stories and feel the courage in their own lives to be honest and real and to let go of the facade and to not have to be perfect and to say, this is my humanity. And sometimes it's messy. And sometimes I can be vulnerable and that it can be a source of power and beauty and not a weakness. Yeah.

This has been awesome. Give a massive shout out to yourselves. You're so humble. I want you to take a moment. I want to, I want you to talk yourself up. I want you to tell our listeners about what I want you to tell them about what you're doing today. I want you to tell them about your amazing soft robes that you have as well. I'm serious. I love your robes. Just give a shout out to yourself. What do you got going on? Oh, you're so sweet.

And being humble is good, but I agree. We all need to give ourselves some props once in a while. I will start with this because this is a really fun thing that I discovered. I was cleaning out my desk the other day and I found I had this job about 10 years ago and had to write down my, you know, one, five and 10 year goals. And in my 10 year goals was to publish a book. And at the time I thought like, I don't know, that seems so big and scary. And I don't know if I could do it. And what's it going to be about? And I had envisioned it very different. I had envisioned it being like a, you know, collection of all my art.

And this is so much bigger and feels like I was chosen to do this. And at times I do feel kind of quiet about it and quiet about my work and what I'm doing. Because I'm just like everyone else. I have, I'm overwhelmed a lot of the time and I have a lot going on, but I feel really proud of this book. It's so beautiful. And, and I feel so honored and grateful to have been able to work with April on it and share it. And I want it to continue to land in, in people's hands. You know, I'm an artist at heart too. And I'm starting to get to a point where I'm able to get back to doing a lot of my artwork, which is, you know, ethereal landscapes and portraits and other types of photography. So I'm just really excited to kind of, I just turned 46. I feel like this mature lady who's like able to achieve her goals and that feels really special. And so I do that. And you know, the thing that you mentioned about the robes, it's connected. Like I always thought, Oh, that doesn't make any sense.

I don't want to share that. But the beautiful thing is that when I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis, which is what I share in the book, I really figure out how to support myself because I couldn't do photography at the time. And so I created this little website dedicated to self-care and it was like, you know, I sell spa robes and they're like the coziest, most comfy thing. And this business started as just an experience experiment with, can I do this? Can I create something that will a support me in my love of spa life and support me in being comfortable with my illness and also just financially. That business has grown to like a super grown-up business and it supports me now, it pays me salary. And now I'm able to return to my love of creating art more fluently and fluidly. And so I just feel really grateful for the path at the time. It was

the worst thing that could have ever happened. And now, like you said, turning my pain into purpose, it's I've created a life for myself that is supportive where I can be who I really am and create the work that I want to create. And it definitely does not look the way I thought it was going to look, but that's okay. That's another plan, right? Yeah. So tell our listeners the website to look at your art, your photography, and also for your ropes. If you'd like to get a copy of the book, it's at exposure-book.com, which also is just really lands on a page on my photography website, which is kellyileen.co K E L L Y E I L E E N.co. So you'll be able to see my art there and read about the book and order a copy of the book there. And then my spa robe website is luxuriespaarobes.com. All right, your turn, April.

So tell us about Fire Feeders. Tell us about what you're up to. Give yourself a big, huge shout out. Well, Fire Feeders is a writing collective that I've been a part of for a number of years now. A couple other amazing women writers that I really adore. We have shows and we've spent some time publishing our work. So that's where my poetry has come through from the past several years. But right now I'm actually working with a publisher on my new collection. I'm a new mom. I have a seven month year old

daughter who I have to get back to pretty soon here. But I needed help bringing out this new collection of books because I don't really have the time right now to be doing all of the behind-the-scenes work to share my poetry. So I'm working with Homebound Publications, which is a beautiful, small, independent press. They do ecocentric writing, which is really my wheelhouse, so to speak. My new collection is called Memory Keeper. It's due out in the spring and you can find it on their website, homeboundpublications.com. But as Kelly said, go to her website, look at exposure, take a look at the book, you know, just the images there. We do have pictures up on her website. So if you want to just get a feel of what we've been talking about today, go take a look at that. You have a couple other books out as well, right? Yeah, I think I have

five at this point, mainly poetry. So doing this with Kelly, you know, has been different for me, this photographic anthology. Where could they find your other books? Okay, so those are on Amazon, the one that Kelly just held up, people can't see, but it's called Singing to the Bones. Published that I think three and a half years ago. And then Origin Stories. That was my second collection. Those are both on Amazon. Congratulations on being a new mom thank you thank you guys so much for coming I've really enjoyed this

I can't wait to read those stories and I know our listeners will too thank you so much it was so fun and now it's time for break that shit down you know I would say having courage to be vulnerable is worth it. That's the big thing that comes to me and connecting with other people authentically

is also one of the greatest gifts you can give yourself and others. And to see past what you may think or project onto others. Don't do that. Don't project your stuff onto other people. Let them share and listen. It's a beautiful gift for everyone. Awesome. April?

I would say if you have an impulse or creative stirring that wants to move through you, follow it. Even if you have no idea how it's going to manifest in the world, even if you're not receiving compensation for it, and it's in your very spare time late at night after you put the kids to bed or whatever it is, I would say follow that because these things come to us for a particular reason. And when we shut them down and we keep them inside of us, I just wonder about what that does to our souls and our hearts. And I really do think that all these beautiful works of art that we are each working on, even if it's thinking about it for a couple of years, they're needed in the world. They're important. So follow that creative impulse. Thank you guys so much. And this

podcast is so fun to listen to it. What I love about your podcast is like it touches on some like really big stuff. And it's you make it so fun and accessible and easy to share. So thank you so much for having us. What an honor and a joy to be with you ladies. Yes, it has been so great. Thank you guys for taking the time to talk to Sense of Soul today. We love you. Thanks for being with us today. We hope you will come back next week. If you like what you hear, don't forget to rate, like, and subscribe.

Thank you. We rise to lift you up. Thanks for listening.