Sense of Soul - The Self-Discovery and Awakening Journey

Episode Date: August 11, 2025

Today on Sense of Soul we have Patrick Marando, He is a spiritual teacher, psychologist, energy healer and author of Waking Up to Your Self: A Guide To Living Your Truth. 
His work blends modern psychology with ancient spiritual wisdom to help people reconnect with their truth, process emotions with compassion, and live from the power of presence. Patrick bridges the gap between spirituality and psychology using his studies in Zen Buddhism, Taoism, Non Dualism, New Age philosophies and modern psychology, and focus on living from a state of truth.  In his new book Waking Up to Your Self: A Guide to Living Your Truth. He delves into the essence of living our truth, offering guidance and practical wisdom to help readers remember who they truly are and embrace their authentic selves as they embark on a journey of self-discovery and fulfillment.  https://www.patrickmarando.com https://www.spirituallyminded.net

Sense of Soul. Hey Soul Seekers, it's Shanna. Journey with me to discover how people around the world awaken to their true sense of soul. Now go grab your coffee and open your mind, heart, and soul. It's time to awaken. Today on Sense of Soul, joining me from Australia is Possible. Patrick Miranda. He is a spiritual teacher, a psychologist, energy healer, and the author of waking up to yourself, a guide to living your truth. His work blends modern psychology

with ancient spiritual wisdom to help people reconnect with their truth, process emotions with compassion, and live from a power of presence. And he's joining us today to share how we can embrace our authentic self and embark on a journey of self-discovery and fulfillment. Please welcome, Patrick. Hi, how are you? Good, thank you. How are you doing? I'm good.

Are you in Australia? Yes, I'm in Australia. Oh, my God. Not 4 a.m. Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate you being with me. So tell me how you became a psychologist, and I must ask, which I can kind of assume, are you more youngian or Freudian?

I'd be more younger, and yeah, yeah. So I was at, when I was at school, I was always the person that people would always come to an ask for advice. And I would, I would normally just sort of be able to give it. And so I was always a bit confused how people were always lost in their emotional states. I was always a very logical person. So it was quite easy for me to just sort of, just dish out the advice. And just from there, I just really felt an inner calling that I wanted to study psychology and I went straight from school to university and studied that and it went straight into working. So I think I started working as a psychologist prior to turning 22. So I've been working in that just for a few years now, just for a couple of years. So that's my journey and it's just

been an evolving journey. So I didn't really start as a Jungian psychologist really. I didn't really think of anything. I just sort of, you know, bringing cognitive behavioural therapy to others in helping them. And then after that, about a year after starting working as a psychologist, I started a I started Kung Fu. Yeah, so is that the martial arts? That's when I actually started getting into spirituality a lot more. And because we learned things about like Chi energy. We learned about aura, chakras, and a bit of Taoism as well.

And really from there, that's where I really started delving deeper into spirituality. And then really my psychology and spirituality just started blending. And so I don't really know where I stand in the moment. I know it's more Jungian, but I don't even think it's, I don't even want to limit it to me in. Right. Yeah. I'm hearing that a lot and I've been experiencing exactly what you said. This year, more than ever, I've not been holding on too much to any ideas or beliefs. I mean, just in five minutes, everything can change. Yeah, that's right. Completely. And we are, our essence is ever changing. It's our mind that really that has hold on. Exactly. Wow. You know, during my spiritual

journey. It was like every journey, there was Carl Young right there. And I was like, this guy wrote about this too? You know, or he was involved in this. I mean, from learning that he had a hand in the, even the alcoholic anonymous big book, to having a Gnostic gospel. I mean, in everything in between, right? When I look up synchronicity for the first time, there he was. when I look up dreams right there he was and I was like man this dude he knew a lot and I also have become a fan of the Gnostic Gospels because of the allegorical stories and the deep meaning of things and I also saw that did you become a Zen teacher is that right I guess even then it's more just a broad spiritual teacher so I don't just limit to Zen

Yeah, I love Zen stories. And those gospels, some of them, are very poetic, just like Zen stories. And I thought about it with my dad used to always tell these stories. And of course, I used to just roll my eyes at him like, oh, God, here we go, another story. I met mom now. The other day, I told my daughter a Zen story. It was one about the two monks that are walking along the river, and there's a woman. who needs to get to the other side, but I guess it's custom for them not to touch a woman. Do you know that story? No, I don't know that one now. Oh, it's so good. So I'm going to have to finish it then. So it's like a senior monk and like an apprentice monk.

And so the senior monk goes into the water and picks her up and brings her to the other side and continues walking. And this apprentice monk is just having and puffing. all stressed out and the whole time is mad. And finally, the senior monk says, what's your problem, man? And he's like, we're not allowed to touch women. And you touch that woman back there. He's like, oh, I put her down on the other side long ago. And you still carry her.

And I told my 12-year-old this story. Yes, yes. And you know what? I probably could hear that story a million times. and it's going to meet me where I'm at in my life. Completely, yeah. I think all stories, and that's the beauty of Zen and story is that story does meet you where you're at and you can go back another time and you'll get a deeper understanding

or a different understanding and it will just assist you with whoever you are at that moment. I love that. And I think that for me as a parent, I have found that I'm more successful if I can find a story or something, even if it's my own personal story or someone I know or Zend story, rather than talking at them. Yeah. Kids learn better through story than through preaching. So at the end of the day, they don't like being told what to do, but we can trust that

they're going to come to their own conclusions because they have an inner being, they have a soul, they have that wisdom there. They're not just a juvenile being. That's their physical being, not their inner being. Most of my life was spent believing in things that other people told me to believe. I didn't have that space to discover that inner, that inner journey. Yeah, yeah. And most of us have been raised like that because we're raised by people who raise us out

of love, but also raised out of their ignorance to themselves and to their true selves. So they're just going to teach you what they believe and teach us what they believe, and we're going to go with that. And while there's a problem with that, there is a beauty in that as well, because losing ourselves gives us the opportunity to rediscover ourselves and to really rediscover who we truly are. Yeah, I know. I always say I've never really seen anybody who had like a perfect life without any trauma, you know, in this awakened space. Yes, yes, yes. I always say no one gets out of childhood unscathed.

Yeah. And lately I've been dealing with my mom as she gets older, which I am very disappointed in the world that they do not talk about this enough because I feel like it's, been put on me and I'm shocked. Like, wait, what? I just, my kids are getting older. I finally have this freedom of not taking care of someone. And now I'm like, what? Yeah. Yeah, I think I've heard it called like the middle generation.

So, and it's really the toughest position, like where you're in that middle ground, where you're still looking after your kids, but you're also having to be the carer for your parents. So you are stuck in the middle again. Well, I'm glad you know about it because I, no one warned me. then again I think I thought my dad would be around longer yeah often things we don't think about like we we're sort of busy living and we sort of take things for granted and take people for granted until we can't take them for granted anymore yes you're so right or just life happens

and I mean because I mean I would say that I was in such a good place and I and it's not in a bad place but I have challenged we all have challenges that come to us I mean I could just be sitting around meditating and being in that space all the time and then just boom yeah yeah and I think I always got a quote from Alan Watts he said anyone can be a stone Buddha and the stone Buddha is us meditating sitting back from life and just living it from our soul but living from a disconnected point of soul and then there's the living Buddha which is that how do I embody that and how do I bring my wisdom and my sort of enlightenment or awakening into the world how do live it when my heart's breaking? How do I live it when I'm struggling? How do I live it when I'm

sad? So how do I be that living Buddha? These things give us an opportunity because really we wouldn't have those things unless we had love. We wouldn't have the heartbreak and the sadness and the difficulties unless we had so much love for the people that we're giving these things too. You're so right. And one thing I have found in the position of this, what did you say, the middle, the middle people? Yeah, the middle generation. Middle generation is compassion and love in a different way towards my mom. So it's definitely something good has come out of it and patience. Yeah, yeah, completely.

Especially with family. I think with family, no matter how awakened we feel we are, family is really good at getting us to lose our awakening and to go back into old habits because they're our deepest ones. Yeah, completely, yeah, yeah. Well, it's a really difficult situation that, again, is a deeper opportunity to connect more to yourself or ourselves. Yeah. I've had to breathe more.

I've had to, you know, I, I, there's a, where do you find the balance or where do you even find the, I guess, awareness between avoiding and, you know, going inward? because there's that positive going inward, right, where you're connected, in your focus. And then there's also this avoidance that can look very similar. Don't fool yourself. Yeah, like running away. Yeah, completely running away because I know when I first started, I sort of awoke on my own. I was reading a book and this sort of started, Bill started going off in my head. And so I sort of just awoke to my awareness within.

And my journey was, that was great. It was wonderful. I sort of felt like I was floating on clouds for about three months. And then I sort of, I guess my ego started coming back in and I sort of joined back to who I was, not quite as strongly, but still joined back. But from there, I really disconnected from everything. I was like, nothing's really important anymore. Like the soul doesn't care about those things.

So it was really sort of, I guess, people call that spiritual bypassing. And that's kind of what we can do with our meditating overly. And so that's what I was doing, a lot of spiritual bypassing. And then finally, I sort of had more of an emotion. awakening, which was, all right, now, I can't bypass this. I've got to live this now. So that, again, is the full encompassing of spirituality, not just that disconnect. What book was it? Would you mind sharing? Emptiness Dancing was the book by Adyashanti, was the book that helped me awaken.

It was a wonderful journey, but again, getting back to living as the human rather than the spirit is often difficult, and that's really what our journey here is to do. I'm assuming that the kung fu helped you connect with your body, you know, the movement, body and everything, because you were already aware of the brain and what was going on. And you mentioned cognitive behavioral therapy, which that's how I started in therapy because I have ADHD. So, and also just anxiety, you know, just reach my thoughts. And then is this real? Is this a fact? you know and half the time it wasn't even mine yeah yeah that's right yeah so martial arts

did really help me connect to my body completely and then for me i kind of look at it at we're sort of got four components to us so we've got our spiritual part of us we've got our mental part of us our emotional part of us and our physical part so for me the the spiritual was the first one obviously mental so it was my first one then i went to spiritual and physical but emotional was probably my trickiest one. So even within Kung Fu and martial arts, the connecting to the physical wasn't so difficult for me. That was just quite natural and easy.

But it was getting into the emotional part that was really where the rubber hit the road for me. So like that shadow work, you know, it's hiding usually, you know. Yeah, and hiding behind logic. But for me, it was hiding a lot behind psychology as well. Because psychology was about the thinking, was about feeling good, was about controlling your mind to control your emotions.

Yeah, I get that. I did that with self-love a little bit. So it's like, oh, I found this self-love, which I never had. And I, in fact, really kind of worshiped the martyr and thought that that was, you know, who I wanted to be. And so then when I found this self-love, I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to choose me. And then it was like, when people asked me to do something, I'm like, no. I'm going to say no. because I was a yes person.

And then it was like, I went too far over here. And I would feel this like tug a war within me. Like I wanted to say yes, but I'm going to say no. Because I'm going to choose myself. And so then I had to accept kind of like that natural nurture. I had to connect with that. It wasn't a martyr. It was more of a nurturer.

Yeah, and a carer. And that's really, whenever we go too far one way, we end up swinging too far the other way, which is useful because as humans, we all of those abilities to say yes to the difficult things and also say no to all the difficult things. And so when we can encompass both sides, then we can bring true balance. That's usually what happens when we go too extreme to one side. We're going to go too extreme to the other side. Is that where you talk about being in the neutral?

I was reading earlier, my emotional life consisted of minor happy times and minor sad times. but I mostly abided in the neutral. So the neutral can also be avoidance, too. Is that right? That's right. Yeah, that's the numbness part. Yeah, that's the numbness part. No, no, neutral wasn't balanced.

I mean, neutral was the numbness, was the me living too much in my mental mind and logic. And really, like I said, on my website. So my happy times were a little bit happy and my down times were a little bit down, but there was not much scope in that. And so when I learned to, say, for example, be able to say no, for me saying no meant being okay to feel guilty. So when I was okay to finally feel guilty, then I was easier able to say no and also be able to be disliked.

But there are the two main emotions that frontmakers have difficulty saying no is avoidance of guilt and avoidance of feelings of disapproval. And when I can feel those, then I'm okay with the whole scope of saying yes, saying no, saying all of them, but it's not the emotion driving the behavior necessarily. we can connect to our inner being and our truth and do what feels true in that particular moment rather than just what's conditioned, which is a bit more, a lot more robotic. Well, you are just going right back into another pattern.

That's right. It may be a better pattern than what it was. Yes, that's right. Right? But you're just kind of doing the same thing. You just switch to something. It's like going from one addiction to another addiction. Completely.

Okay. That whole little paragraph really stuck out to me. because you also talked about how you got really good at controlling your emotions. This could be something similar as well, right? I became a master of that as well. And I felt like I used to even say, like, I'm unfuck-worthable. Like, you will not control my emotions. And I became like a stickler by it.

Like I'm going to let everything filter and this is not mine. It's not mine. Yeah. That power. I had lost my yin, I guess I should say. Yeah, yeah, completely. And really, whenever we're wanting someone, we're going to force someone to not control our emotions,

they're controlling our emotions. But like our emotion is being controlled, just being controlled in the opposite way. So in the sense, we're not letting ourselves feel, it's still part of controlling an emotion. We think that we're in these spaces. And like I said, it's still an improvement. We're just going to be students for life.

I just surrender to it. of course yeah and for me it looks like what that does is creates maybe a healthier ego which is fine it's a healthy ego is making and make our life but it does disconnect us a bit more from our spirit nonetheless from our soul from our true self and it's still a pattern that's right yeah the same thing is still happening in your brain that's right yeah and really our true self is more dynamic than that it is like living a spirit which is kind of like it's kind of like liquid really it sort of bends and molds to whatever feels truest in that moment. So, you know, being numb to someone's pain means,

and I know, I did this too, so I completely know what you're saying. But being numb to someone's pain just means that I'm not going to let them affect me. So I'm just going to tolerate bad treatment all the time because I'm not letting them affect me. But deep down, I was letting them affect me because I was just tolerating their treatment. Yeah, absolutely. So being able to feel hurt in that case, so if I felt hurt, great. Hurt is designed to help us set limits. most of us overly do the setting of the limits of hurt,

but we want to be able to feel hurt so we know who to have around us, who not to have around us, where to say no, where to say yes to people. So without hurt, we can't have boundaries. So we want the hurt as much as we think we don't. And I guess something you said also, you're not being present when you already have it planned that you are going to be a no person. yeah completely yeah yeah and not trusting your body which i speak on all the time

like if i really really want to then i probably should and i shouldn't say no just because you know i'm trying to stand my ground yeah that's right yeah we end up shooting ourselves in the foot i've been there yeah completely yeah for me in my journey particularly with the emotional side of it. That's what prompted me to write my book. So, you know, the thing was for me is that I had to understand my own emotional states. And this was really separate to psychology because everything I said in psychology really didn't really help me with me navigating the spiritual journey. So, so me really learning how to sit with the emotions and understand what they're for and how to utilize them to connect to our truth and to listen to our truth was really what

motivated me to do that. I initially called my book, Me and My Shadow. That's what I initially called it. But then I just widened the scope of it, so then I end up calling it waking up to yourself. And so really about understanding the process of waking up and being able to wake up at any given moment at any time. That's the key. Many awakenings can happen in one day. Yeah. I'm having an awakening right now just talking to you and seeing things from a different perspective. And that's kind of what you have to do. You can't be so attached to this is the way it's going to be. Yeah, and your preconceived ideas and notions of how it will be or what you think you already know or what we think we already know. Or what other people say, this is the way to do it.

You know, sometimes, you know, it works for a while and it's beautiful and it gets you onto the next path. And that's it. And then the next path has something new. That's right. Yeah. And really the ego, they're designed to keep us safe and to keep us feeling better. That's what it's designed for. So we just hold on very, very tightly to it. So the more we can hold on loosely, because it will connect to anything, just like you said, now I'm a no person before I was the S person, but now I'm a no person. It's going to connect to labels all the time.

It feels safe in connecting to a label. It feels like it's worried about dying. So anytime it can connect to something, it feels like it's safe. It's there again. So the less we connect, it doesn't actually die. We just utilize it as a tool because that's all it is. It is a tool. Without it, we wouldn't want it.

like we'd feel hunger, not want to eat. We wouldn't be able to say no. We wouldn't be able to care for ourselves in any way without it. So it is useful. It's not an enemy. It's just knowing how to utilize it better as an ally. So you're not one that believes in like the ego, death? Not the death, no, no.

I think it's more, I think we need it. Like, I think the ego will probably die when we die. I'm not entirely sure. But I think while we're alive, we still need some components of it. even like 2% of it. Yeah. We'd have no impetus to do anything. We'd just really be laying like sort of potatoes on a couch.

So awareness has got to be one of the most important things. Yeah. Awareness of your thoughts of what emotions, you know, what is rising in me, you know, what is this pain, you know, all of just awareness. Yeah. Because really awareness is what we are. That's the first part. So awareness is what our spirit is.

So we are awareness and the awareness is what is arising within awareness. Mm-hmm. Because what, and so it's super important. So what normally happens, though, is we are the awareness, but then in a sense we forget where the awareness, we think we are the thought or we think we are the emotion or we think we are our body. But all these are occurring within the scope of awareness.

So the more we are aware of those things, the more insight we can get into understanding, our habitual patterns and how they connect us or disconnect us from our true self or from our inner being. I love that. Yeah. So really awareness is the most important part, I think, and having that cognizance about what's going on and the why, because that really will help us, like understanding the

psychology part really is useful, but also understanding what's arising within that space of awareness. For me, I was really aware of my thoughts. And what I missed it within my own journey was, I only started criticism. exercising myself because I felt disappointed. So I wasn't actually aware of my emotional state. I was just aware of my mental state in that. So in a sense,

I feel like I'm not doing it good enough. So I feel like a failure. So that's the feeling part. And when I feel like a failure, my mind goes into criticism as a way to try to cope with failure. So when our mind's doing those things, we want to recognize, what am I feeling first?

The feelings, you know, if you're really good at catching thoughts, fantastic, but we want to recognize a lot of times, our thoughts are coming. Our beliefs create our feelings, but then our feelings create more thoughts.

And it creates that loop. I completely overlooked those emotions all the time. I was just in my mind and said, let go of that thought, let go of that thought, let go of that thought. Yeah. Yeah, and letting go of all those thoughts was what actually was pushing away my emotions. Yeah. It was me saying, don't let myself feel, but I didn't realize that's what I was doing.

You know, that's what I have learned to be true for my own experience, because even when I am working with someone and we're meditating, you know, they're like, I can't really meditate because the whole time, all I am is thinking about things. And I'm like, that's good. All of those things that are coming through, that's part of the process. Like, take note of those things. I remember, I didn't realize that at the time, I wanted to push them all out too

because I wanted just the space. But it is those things that are coming through. Those are the things that really need to be healed. Yeah, completely. And I think with meditation, I think there's too much emphasis on having a quiet mind. I think that's part of the misnomer's, I think, which, actually gets people to think that they can't actually meditate. So I did it all myself too.

So a lot of it is even if I'm having lots of thoughts, the space of awareness is actually being aware of my thoughts. So you don't have to be aware of your breath. If you can't focus on your breath, the awareness is already there. So whatever you're aware of, just be aware that you're aware of it. And it doesn't have to be a quiet space.

A lot of times for me, meditating was actually really hard from a kind of emotional perspective. if it wasn't peaceful at all. I'd go on meditation retreat and people say, oh, isn't it wonderful you're doing a meditation retreat? And you're having so much peace.

I was like, I just said, yes, yes, just agreed. But internally, that's where all the turmoil came up. It wasn't easy. It wasn't peaceful. Yeah. I agree with you.

There is this misconception about that space. Not that you can't get there, but at the very beginning, I felt like I needed to be tricked into it. Like, hypnotize me, knock me out, right? or a lot of people will do plant medicine, right?

Like, I need to get to the healing part first. That's not it. Like, there's all this shit in the way that you're just going to, you know, it's just going to. There's no shortcuts. I don't think there's any shortcuts. And what I think particularly plant medicine can do, it can actually force openings that you're not ready for. So it actually can make you suffer more because, you know,

it really awakening and being more awake and opens different energetic channels within us. And we do that during the pace that serves us best. But if we're forcing that pace, it's not actually really useful. It's kind of like trying to put, I don't know much about electricity, but trying to put, you know, 200 volts down a wire that can only carry 20 volts. It's going to fray the system a little bit. I've actually seen this with energy work as well. And I teach, you know, Reiki and I always tell my students, I, I do.

You firmly believe this, and some people don't, and that's fine, but I believe in boundaries. Even if I have a complete 100 psychic moment where I totally know, or I think I know, my ego knows, you know, what you need, what's wrong with you, what happened to you, I don't go there. Because, you know what, it just may not be your time to know. maybe our energy work may bring awareness to you but I'm it's not for me to tell you I really am against those kind of psychic boundaries I don't I and I suggest people don't do that because like what you just said sometimes we're we don't have the tools yet or we're not in in this space we haven't evolved yet to be able to to really truly care for it like it needs to be care for yeah yeah

And that's really, I think working intuitively really on your behalf. I think that's fantastic. And I sort of do the same sort of things that. And I think as helpers, we really get these ideas and we want to help. Like we want to say, oh, this is going to be helpful for them. But then we, that's our condition part. And then connecting to ourselves intuitively and basing our decision on that is really where our true self, our spirit knows the answer more than just our head.

And I think that's what you're doing there. And that's really what I encourage in living our truth is, is not just going with what our head's saying necessarily, but intuitively seeing what does, what feels like the best decision right here because that answer is there like we our soul is always speaking to us our job is to know how to listen that's truth right there I remember this one time because especially for me as a mother you know I mean the worst thing in the world is to see your kids suffer I mean I mean my daughter's first heartbreak I told her older brother I'm like you need to go beat this kid up I mean I was I wouldn't you know he's like I'm not a

fighter. I'm like, well, you have friends. Yes, yes. I swear. Very spiritual. I wasn't always awakened with my older kids, but I remember having to make a conscious decision not to step in. Let them go through this. Let them feel, you know, this situation. I can't still these. Do it again. Okay. But, you know, I mean, I felt like I had stole many lessons from my children over the years or saved them from experiencing pain

where I see now that, you know, this is their journey, but yet it's still hard to watch them suffer. But there was this one night I made a conscious decision, and this is not long ago, but my oldest son was having this like horrible migraine, like in the middle of the night. And he came into my room and we really didn't have anything for him to take. And, oh, I felt so bad for him and I laid there. And I was like, I just wish I could take his pain. And I did. And he no longer had a headache.

Well, I didn't know this to the next day, but immediately I got a headache. And I woke up with my head pounding and I saw him in the morning. I said, how do you feel? He's like, oh, better. I'm like, oh, good. Because I literally took his pain. Yeah, and that's pretty amazing. And then really, even in that, it's, it's not about, and again, you do this, I'm sure, within your Reiki work, it's, it's, it's not about not necessarily helping people and assisting them if it's there.

And it's really about that connection. So maybe there was a part to, that it could take away, but there might have been a more peaceful way to take it away rather than owning it yourself. Yeah, because if I continue to do that, I'll end up dying very early. Of course, of course. Yeah, that's what we do if we try to take anyone's pain away from them. And we also want to recognize pain can be our teacher. So sometimes understanding the pain is more important sometimes than then releasing it rather than just solve the pain as quick as possible.

And I'm really guilty of that too. Whenever I'm in pain or someone's in pain, I really want to go to them and help. Like I know that's in me. So it's like how do I sit back and really, how do I let my heart break while they're in pain? How do I let my sadness exist while they're there? Because really we're trying to help them out of our own pain as well then.

reminds me of the dance, right? Like, kind of like Kung Fu, right? Or other martial arts, you know, you can still be there. But you're not the only one leading. It doesn't work that way. And so surrendering a little bit and flowing. Tell me about that. I love Tai Chi, by the way.

Yeah, yeah. Well, Tai Chi was, when we did Kung Fu, we did three of them. One of them was Tai Chi. And Tai Chi is all about that flow and that yin and yang. It's all about that balance. and so really part of what's motivating. So just use the example of wanting to take away someone's pain. A lot of times I'll feel sad seeing someone in pain.

So I don't know how to manage my own sadness, then usually I'm going to try to solve it by trying to fix it for them. So my sadness is driven by caring, number one. So it would also be driven by certain belief patterns that no one can have pain and the pain is bad and that it's a terrible thing to have where that's not necessarily the case. so when we can recognize it's okay to feel sad number one but also recognize that maybe this pain is serving this person maybe there's a use in this pain maybe i don't have to be the savior when we can think in a way more aligned with our truth then we can have that dance a little bit better

we can jump in to assist when it helps them and pull back when it doesn't and we sort of had that that ebb and flow of that situation and that's for any situation not just those ones Oh, I always was a codependent, an enabler, and like I said, I worship the martyr. But the thing is, is that then I was like I was on the other side, but, you know, that natural nurture inside of me was battling. And I had to find a space where I could still be there for you without caring at all. You know what I mean? And that's very hard for people, especially right now in the world. I mean, I think I am such an empath that I can sense the heaviness even if I don't watch

anything. Yeah. And that's really a tricky thing. The more connected you are emotionally, the more you will feel others' emotions, the more you will feel those more subtle energies that we're not used to feeling. And the more we can connect to our truth in those moments and also recognize that the heaviness isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's usually, even me from my own heaviness,

that's what got me to further awaken. That's what got me to grow my light more. The dark is what motivates towards the light, or dislike of the dark motivates towards the light. So when we can actually shine a light on the dark, rather than go into the dark and only being in the dark, then it's going to make it easy for us to manage those energies because they're not necessarily bad energies.

They could actually be very, very useful energies to grow the consciousness of the world. I love that polarity. And let's just call the dark for what it is, Mr. Fear. Yeah, definitely, yes. A lot of it is all just fear-diced, yeah, completely. Yeah. And that's one thing that I have also just since 2025, really, you know, holding space for fear.

Instead of pushing it away or resisting it, holding it with love. And I usually hold it with respect in particular. Oh, I like that. Yes, I usually respect, particularly any of the emotions. I don't always love them, but I really want to respect them and respect their purpose and what they're doing for me. Even fear itself, fear is we are fearful, but often what we're fearful of is we're fearful of our lives, losing our lives. But most of our fear is actually an emotional fear. So I'm scared that that person's going to take my money and lose my house.

I'm scared of loss of security. If we didn't have any emotional responses to the things we fear, then we wouldn't be scared of them. Most of our fear is actually fear of an emotion that comes with an event rather than just the event itself. Usually a lot of times it's around transition and change. Yeah, which is usually a fear of sadness, a fear of loss, which is an emotion, though, because we have transitioned and change all the time.

But because it doesn't create a sense of loss all the time, then we don't actually grieve it. we're not scared of that one. Like everything is always changing. It's just that when our mind can see the changes is when it hurts us. I know. That's why I like nature. Because I can connect with that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nature goes with the flow. It's not scared of change. It's not scared of going with that. It's not scared of. A tree's not even scared of being cut down. Last week, I felt like I was doggy paddling in the middle of an ocean with a hurricane on its way. so like trying to run away but not being able to move very fast that was the vision of what I had

the state that I was in last week yeah yeah but actually the hurricane never came no and what were we swimming away from like it's like the really swimming away is usually an emotional thing the hurricane is usually an emotion or a bunch of emotions yeah because if there's no emotions there there wouldn't be a hurricane it just be like a breeze it wouldn't even feel that And it's also not being present, right? It's not being present because it wasn't there. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

But even in that, I think it's wonderful that, like, that was a communication from your higher self or your true self. And it communicated through imagery, through imagination, which is fantastic in itself. So understanding those communications can really help us know what decisions to make when we see them. That's interesting. You know, a lot of times when I have very vivid visions like that,

or dreams, I will do the art for them and I'll spend days doing the art. And by the time I'm done doing the art, there's all this wisdom I've received. I imagine it would be, yeah, because even art is a meditative state. So we don't have to actually, we spoke about meditation awareness. We can sometimes be just doing something we love and we'll still get some of those, that wisdom inside. We'll still receive that connection. Now, did I see something about you're a fan of writing?

Generally, some of it, I really am a fan of just whatever matches the person, is that if you want to write, write. I did do writing through my journey. It was probably like a 50-50 thing. I sometimes did it all in my head, and sometimes I said, I'm going to write this out. And I think writing for me slowed things down a lot more. Writing is really where I kind of learned to say, right, this is what the emotion is.

Let's break that down. What beliefs must be creating this emotion if I have the emotion? what is my mental response to this emotion so I really so that's what I really started doing when I started writing the emotions themselves I'd write them down and I'd literally write down

what are I believing to feel this and then really like how am I responding to this so just like I mentioned before when you were sort of criticizing yourself I'm about the meditation so for me that's how I learned it was like oh I'm responding that way and it's disappointment that makes me do that

yeah because we have thinking we have beliefs and then we have thinking patterns to try to control emotions. And that's the part that I used to confuse. And then that's the part while I've really sifted out and sort of broken down like the order of how our suffering occurs or also how our freedom can occur. You were asking a lot of questions, that self-inquiry.

Completely self-inquiry. What would you suggest or like the best questions you can ask yourself when you find yourself doggy paddling in the middle of an ocean with a hurricane coming? Yeah. So I think the first question, one of two questions, it's usually when we're doggie paddling, we're either feeling an emotion we're running away from or we're trying to avoid an emotion coming. So the question I'd really ask is, what emotion am I trying to get rid of or what emotion

am I trying to avoid? That would be the first part because we wouldn't want to be doggy paddling so fast unless we felt something. And then from there, like I feel like our emotions are our entry point, our greatest entry point. And because from there, then we can ask, all right, what am I thinking to, create that emotion. The motion is the tip of the iceberg, then we can go down from there. And sometimes it's something very insignificant, too. It is significant to you, but it could be

something very little that you connect with. Is it that it just needs awareness? It's awareness, but it does also require, sorry, you were asking a question. Well, no, I mean, for instance, like I had one time put together one that went back to the most ridiculous thing, but it was I quit softball when I was like in fourth grade and I felt like my dad was always so disappointed in me. That was the first time I felt like disappointment. Like I couldn't stick to something. So there were several different things around it. But this had come up for me one time when I did self-incurray when I stuck with those things. And I thought, gosh, there was no trauma there, right? It was just one simple little thing. Yeah, yeah. That I held on like 40.

years. But our trauma is, like, we don't have to be fully traumatized. Like, our first cut is the trauma. That would be your first cut. So whatever our first pain is, that is the trauma. So often we, I think we overuse trauma a little bit as terms of words. But in general, like, we're all going to have our initial pains and our, and viewing that through the eyes of a child and wanting to control it through the eyes of a

child. But now we have the wisdom, which in that case it is, can I just feel that disapproval out? like that's all it really means now all right that happened can i it's feeling this can i just feel it out and move on because i am wise enough now rather than saying oh you idiot for feeling that you shouldn't feel that anymore that was 30 years ago why are you still going through that again like that could be what we do instead of just saying oh yeah great i do feel that let's move on yeah maybe like if i'm angry at myself can i forgive myself for that or can i forgive my dad for that like recognizing that he was just managing his own emotions or whatever it may be what's hilarious

is that on his deathbed, he was telling the nurse, says, oh, she was such a good softball player. And she quit. And I was like, oh, my, by this time, I had already awakened a little bit. And I'm just like, wow, you're still holding on to it. Yeah. Well, imagine, no wonder why it was so significant. Yeah, but also, Amanda why it was so significant for you. Like, of course, you know, that amount of energy and disappointment he would have felt,

of course, you're going to have felt that yourself. Amazing. I seriously, I felt like that monk who had put the lady down on the other side of the river going, you're still holding on to that, like on your deathbed? You're telling nurses this. He'd obviously nothing between then and now. That's what I had thought to myself. And I also thought how insignificant and I really knew that it had nothing to do with me. Yeah. And that he loved me so much regardless. Like, yeah, it was so. gone. So really it was just the awareness of it. And I didn't even know I was carrying it,

you know, most of my life. Like I said, it wasn't a big deal. It was just some softball, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And that's really those, a lot of times it's those little wounds that actually turn us into who we become and create a personality around avoidance of those emotions or chasing of other emotions. And it's not necessarily the big wounds that do that because most of us aren't living super traumatic lives. I know there are people who do have that, but a lot of us lives are just normal lives with yelling at or screamed or disappointed. It's not always being beaten or dealing with violence.

Those are the obvious. Yeah, that's right. Completely. So those are the ones we might go to. Yeah, yeah, but it's just understanding, you know, how do I respond to certain emotional states? And as children, we're egocentric. So everything that happens, we deem it as a reflection of us

because we don't really have a sense of self yet. We're receiving it from the outside world. So anything that happens, we make it aware the problem, not them dealing with their own psychological issues or their own belief patterns or their own inability to manage their own emotions. We just sort of take it on board for us. And that's why we do personalize it and feel like,

we're not good enough or I'm a disappointment rather than, oh, that's okay that they're not happy with me. I'm just being me. Your book, can you tell me about your book? Yes, my book's called Waking Up to Yourself, a guise for living your truth. And it is a book about, firstly, awakening, really, that's what it's about.

But awakening at any given moment, not having to have full awakening experiences and without having the journey towards the awakening. And in it, I talk about listening to the calling of the true self. And in that, I talk about a lot about self-love and knowing how to change our perceptions and beliefs, but also understanding our emotions and our thinking patterns that try to help us, but don't always serve us.

And the more we can understand that, and it's really about growing that awareness of that. And so with the awareness, we get to be able to change that. That's really why I wrote it. Like I said before, is I wrote it particularly from the emotional state that I was someone who didn't feel very much. So when I did start to feel,

I went through all the pitfalls of those emotions and really had to learn how to navigate them myself and to be able to teach that too. Awakening can be a very, very confusing time. Yeah, completely. And I know my journey, I did it. Like obviously I had some teachers, but a lot of my teachers were, like, so remote and I'd be learning from the internet or from reading. So a lot of my journey was actually spent alone.

So it was just sort of really learning to connect to myself at any given moment and trusting that. And the more we have that, that's our greatest teacher because even me speaking to someone or being the teacher, I'm not trying to help people, someone see within themselves. And the more we can trust ourselves, that's the guide, not just giving your power to the teacher. I mean, because kind of everything falls around you, you know, all of your belief systems or the way you've been living. I mean, you just, it's truly like awakening, like opening your eyes and seeing the world so differently.

I mean, I could have walked past that tree a million times and never noticed it. Now it's become a friend. Yeah, yeah. And really, no one can teach us. No one can know what our truth is. people can point to our truth for us but no one's living us no one knows what our particular truth is so when we do try to give it to someone else rather than connect to ourselves we are losing that connection who's really coming back no one can tell you how to live no one can tell us how to

live our lives we can maybe some people can have more clarity about what's more true and less true but they won't know at any given moment whether that's a yes answer or a no answer for you particularly absolutely and actually if you are living that way you are not living in true sovereignty. And once you do, I had never felt that way before. I felt so free. Yeah, it was a good feeling. Yeah, and free within. And I think you probably discovered the freedom that was already there. Yeah. I always go back to that book, you know, man's search for meaning with Victor Frankl. Even in the chaos, in the dark, you can find freedom. It's there. completely yeah because our mind will get stuck in prison but our soul can't be in prison it's impossible

and when we connect to that we are always free yeah so beautiful thank you so much for coming on thank you for having me i really enjoyed chatting to you it's been great it's an important conversation because a lot of people are awakening and a lot of people are in the dark and experiencing chaos and this instability right right now yeah yeah and again i always look at the dark as the opportunity So it's not always a bad thing. It is an opportunity to grow our light and to say, how do I move towards a light from the dark? Creation is made in the dark, right?

And if I let others' darkness take me in the dark, then that's just something that I can work on within myself. Yeah. Because I'm giving my power away then. I'm losing my freedom. Tell everybody your website and where they can find you if they want to follow you. Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram at Patrick Miranda. And my website is Patrick Mirando.com.

And I'm also got another website that I do my teaching at, and that's called spiritually minded.net. And so you can find me on those places there. So it'd be great to connect, and I'm always open to receiving messages and chatting. Thank you very much. I look forward to reading and getting your book. It's available now. Yes, it's available now.

Yes, it's available now. Yeah, and the audiobook should be coming out very soon. Ooh, I love audiobooks. You know that ADHD mind. Yeah, yes, yes. Thank you. Yeah, it's great to meet you. I really, really enjoyed having this conversation. Sense of Soul. Thanks for listening to Sense of Soul podcast, and thanks to our special guest.

If you want more of Sense of Soul, check out my website at sense of soulpodcast.com. It's time to awaken. Thank you.