Sense of Soul - The Sun God and the Moon

Episode Date: August 31, 2020

We welcomed author and astrologer Phillipe Sibaud. He joined us to discuss his new book Scavengers of Beauty.  In this unconventional work, Philippe explores the symbolism behind the 1969 landing on the Moon.  Where he journeys to answer this question...Why was the mission to the Moon named after the God of the Sun, and not after a Moon Goddess or God? Seen in a different light: the union of Sun (Apollo) and Moon, giving birth to the Divine Child, Earth. Find is book at  www.o-books.com  Scavengers of Beauty by Philippe Sibaud You will never look at the Moon with the same eyes again. www.mysenseofsoul.com  

One, zero, all engines running, liftoff, liftoff, liftoff. Welcome to the Sense of Soul podcast. We are your hosts, Shanna and Mandy. Grab your coffee, open your mind, heart, and soul. It's time to awaken. Today we have with us author Philippe Simbold. He holds a certificate of astrological studies. He is an author of many books and his recent book, he has joined us on this new moon to talk about today.

This book is called The Scavengers of Beauty, where he explores the symbolism behind the 1969 moon landing. It's an honor to have you today, Philippe. And boy, did I have to go back to my roots to pronounce your name. Nice to meet you. I'm French, but I live in the UK. I'm French, but I was born in Louisiana. And French Creole as well. Ah, okay. But French like from way back or?

Oh yeah. My family were the first immigrants to this land in this early 1700s. Indeed. Okay. Yes. Long time ago. Can you speak a bit of Cajun?

Well, you know, growing up, we have our own French. All right. It's funny because I'll say words and they sound French, but I don't think they are. Okay. For some reason today, we're all wearing similar colors. I wonder what that symbolizes.

We all have on red. Are you guys feeling rooted today? Very much so. Are you? I'm not. Your head is in the moon, so it's difficult to be rooted. Oh, you got the moon behind you, Shanna. Where is Shanna? Ah, yes, indeed.

True. Yes, maybe I need to put an earth behind me. Maybe, or under your feet. Oh, yeah, you know what? That's good. You know you are about symbolism, aren't you? Yeah, I try to, yes. I'm very interested in symbolism. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's very significant.

I think more than we realize. Yeah, I think the symbol has really been a casualty of modern world, you know? We lost that ability to see symbolically. Yeah. We are really in love with your book i mean wow yeah yeah you had both of us going what wow really yeah well that's the point really okay yeah well then you definitely accomplished that well i just wanted to add that i also saw that you're a writer for the Gaia Foundation.

You have been doing poetry for many, many years. Is that correct? Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. Through your book, I got to know you a little bit. You are a mountain climber. Yes, indeed. Well, you read that book well. Congratulations. Yeah. You know what? I really enjoyed the way you described that, your words, and then correlating it with the astronaut. It was beautiful. And so tell us just a little bit more about you. Where did you grow up? What's your story? What is my story? Well, I grew up in France in Troyes, which is a medium-sized town just east of Paris, maybe 100 miles away from Paris. I really started in a very, so to speak, conventional way. I went to business school, studied economics and different areas of business, which really, I cannot say, found fascinating,

but I went along. And then I started my life in oil, in crude oil. I was a trader of crude oil. I was buying and selling big cargos of crude oil. But that all changed when I hit 42. I had a big experience and I just left my job and went embarked on a very different path, which was away from crude oil and initially involved setting up a company to sell cola, a fizzy drink made with fair trade sugar. And that path led me to Malawi in Africa, where I set up a little foundation for microfinance,

which is about lending small amounts of money to disadvantaged women. Yeah, that led me on to Gaia Foundation and to astrology and to all sorts of things. Love that. Talk about an amazing purpose to help these women out in a completely different country because they need it. And Shanna and I, we tried to do the fair trade with our boutique truck and always try to support these women from other countries who make such beautiful products. So I loved that when I read that you did that. It's wonderful.

I mean, it's been going on for 10 years and I go there twice a year usually, although this year because of COVID, I haven't been, but I hope I'll be able to go by the end of the year so hopefully but it's wonderful going there and you go to the village and you have all these women like 15 20 of them sitting under the tree in their beautiful you know garments and telling their story uh it's it's wonderful really I love it that is kind of where Shannon and I like you it seems went through a shift in our

life that was a different direction absolutely and I talk about it in the in the book as well and I look at it in symbolic terms too and I link that to the sun and the moon so I and the way I like to look at my life so far so to speak is that the first part until I was 42 was very much under the symbolism of the sun. And since then, it's been under the symbolism of the moon. But it's just one way to look at it. Of course, there are many different possibilities and ways to engage with one's life. In the perspective of this book, that's how I looked at it. So let me ask you, is it a nonfiction book? Is it a fiction book? I mean, there are some facts in there. There's a lot of your interpretation. There's also facts, a lot of mathematical equations and different synchronicities

that you were actually able to connect to astrology, which is pretty precise. What do you consider this book? Or how do you explain this book of like, what kind of book it is, as a factor of fiction? That's a good question, actually, because in the introduction to the book, I actually kind of warn the reader, so to speak, or just tell the reader that, well, it's a bit of a hybrid, a strange beast, this book. It's not academic, even though it draws on many academic sources. It's not fiction because it's about real events, cultural events like the moon landing or my own life, and yet it tells a story. It's not poetry, but there is a little bit of a poetic take on it. So it is a strange hybrid animal, and it doesn't fit neatly into any category, I'm afraid.

What hybrid animal would you pick to describe your book? That's a good one. Maybe a sphinx. I love it. I appreciated your book for so many reasons. I did really appreciate also your authenticity and your vulnerability to share your story. You let us in a little bit and tied it in, but you're right. Like it had my brain going in circles because there's just so much to it. It actually kept me up all night. So if I look tired, it's your fault. Okay. I take the blame. I was dreaming about being in space and being with like Greek gods so it wasn't a bad thing but it kept waking me up and I kept having to go back to chapters to read it again because it's a

lot to process yeah I accept that it's uh it's quite a lot of things and it does indeed look at this particular event which is the the moon landing the 1969 moon landing from different angles and i think it asks of the reader to have a little bit of plasticity and be able to look at that both from a symbolic poetic angle but also from a more rational more scientific angle as well and that because that's the point of the book is to blend everything and not just be stuck in one way of looking at things, which usually in our world is a very rational,

yeah, rational scientific way to apprehend reality, but also be open to a symbolic take, which is just as valid and is complimentary, I think. I do too. I would agree. It's not black and white.

Thank you. Have you always been a moon person, a moon child? Well, I was born on a full moon and it took me a while to realize that whenever the moon is full, I definitely raise my gaze to the heavens and look at it a bit more intently. And then when I started to study astrology,

I realized I was born on a full moon. Yeah, I suppose the moon has always been a bit of a mystery to me. It's more really in the last 10 to 15 years that I've paid more attention to her. Okay, so you said her. Can we start there? Can you tell our listeners about that? Yeah, it's a big thing, you know, this thing about masculine, feminine, sun and moon, and especially today in the current context, when maybe sexuality becomes a bit more blurred, and genders are obviously much more blurred and fluid than they used to be. I want to highlight the fact it's very important not to conflate gender and archetype. So for instance, the way I look at the moon,

I say her because I think archetypally she's feminine. It's not to say that you don't have moon gods or that the moon cannot be gendered masculine as well. But archetypally, in a sense, I think she's feminine, just as the sun is also masculine archetypally, although, like in German, for instance, the sun is feminine, it's dissonant, it's a feminine word. And in many cultures, the sun is feminine and the moon masculine. And yet, essentially, they carry, I think the moon carries feminine values and the sun masculine values. That's how I look at it in the book. And I'm not saying it's the absolute truth.

Anyway, symbols are very fluid. A symbol is a symbol in a particular culture or a particular context. Another culture would have a totally different take on the symbol and it would be just as valid. And that is what is so difficult to comprehend for a rational mind because rational minds they like black and white it's this or that but it cannot be both or either so as i say it requires of the reader a little bit of plasticity and ability to um to be in doubt not to have black and white answers you know i i enjoyed that part of the book where you explained the symbolism and you talked about how it operates in the here and

now. Yes, I never heard of it. I had to look it up. I'm like, what the heck is that? It sounds like a hot dog could order at a Rockies game or something. That's a good one. As I was reading that chapter, I looked at my phone and for some reason, every time I was reading your book and I looked up, it was 5.55, 5.55 a.m., 5.55 at night. And so I looked up the symbolism. Then I went back, finished that chapter and you described symbolism. It was just like this really cool experience I had while I was reading your book. Because you're right, symbolism can shift and it can change. Yes, absolutely. It's very dependent on the context. That's the whole point. And that's why this here and now is also so important, because it's all about context. And it's very much

the way traditional societies, for instance, looked at divination. When something was happening in the tribe that was unusual, it was extremely irrelevant because it was out of the ordinary. The way our culture functions is the opposite. Whenever something doesn't fit with the model, it's discarded as irrelevant. So it's two opposite ways to engage with reality. That's what is fascinating. Why was the mission to the moon named after the god of the sun and not after the moon goddess or god? Back to that feminine and masculine energy we were talking about. This is the question that you pondered on. This is where it started. Yeah, absolutely.

And you couldn't find anything on this. Yeah, for me, it seemed like such a simple, obvious question that I barely dare raise it. But then I looked around and I couldn't find anything about it. And I was surprised, really. So I thought, well, I'm not saying I checked everywhere but I tried to and anyway wherever I checked I couldn't find anything on the subject so I thought well if nobody has looked into it then I will and therefore it just started this inquiry about sun and moon symbolism and that's the yeah that's the starting point of the book is is this simple question which leads to much bigger questions about the evolution of consciousness really and looked at through a sun moon angle which i found really interesting and again it's

not absolute truth but it's just a take on the evolution of human consciousness you know from way back even paleolithic times when the moon was really the main object in the sky, and all the way to this incredible technological achievement of landing on the moon with a mission named after the god of the sun. Why? Why is that? What does it say about us, actually? Another thing I thought about while i was reading

about the different consciousness was are you saying that people have different consciousness based on the god that they were worshiping as well i think it's the other way around i think the god that people have been worshiping is a reflection of the consciousness so it's more about we create our gods depending on our consciousness and the gods goddesses are a reflection of our consciousness now when i'm saying that this is not to deny the divine or spirit or whatever you call it i'm not you know but i'm just saying because we are, we are limited in our perception of the divine. And therefore, we kind of project onto the divine our own limited consciousness. And obviously, thousands of years after thousands of years, this consciousness evolves.

So 2,000 years ago, the Romans were worshipping Jupiter and Minerva and Apollo. And today we are not. And yet for the Romans, these gods were, you know, extremely valid and they were part of their life. So that's my take on this. And I focus more particularly, of course, on Apollo, the name of the mission. And Apollo is a god that appeared in Greece a long time ago,

maybe 3,000 years ago, more or less. And the image of Apollo himself has changed. The Greeks looked at Apollo in a particular way, the Romans in a particular way, and we do in another way, which is we have assigned to Apollo qualities of reason, detachment, objectivity, rationalism, scientific excellence, which is why he was such an obvious candidate for the mission to the moon, because he reflected that consciousness of technological excellence, of scientific excellence, if you want. But initially, Apollo was also a god of prophecy and the god of music. But this was stripped, if you want, little by little, until it became more this embodiment of reason and objectivity and excellence, technological excellence. All right, I'm going to be honest.

When I first hear the word Apollo, do you know what my brain does? Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Rocky! He beat Apollo! Of course. Absolutely. My brain. My dad was a huge Rocky fan. Loved all of them.

Well, that's it. It's cultural dependent. It is. Isn't that interesting? Okay, this is America. You know, I'm 40 something years old. Then I go to a spaceship. Then I go to a god.

Isn't that interesting? Just like you said, my environment, my education, education you know different things all made up what i believe or what i see as a god it's so freaking crazy to me right now mandy and i were not like we don't know a lot about astrology and definitely not about greek mythology but now like kind of want to learn more about it i have to say astrology is really a fascinating subject and opens so many doors. It does open the door to Greek mythology and opens the door to symbolism and to psychology and consciousness. It's so vast.

The way you described astrology was so beautiful. Can you describe it? Well, I think there is so much misunderstanding and so many misconceptions of what astrology is. But I think what you're referring to, Mandy, is when I say that astrology is not a superstitious tool to predict the future. It's an ethical practice to co-create it.

So what I mean by that is it's not about trying to literally predict the future, it's an ethical practice to co-create it. So what I mean by that is it's not about trying to literally predict the future about this is going to happen, you're going to meet tall dark stranger or whatever. It's about engaging with the stars as symbols and engaging with the stars in order to co-create that future, that is to be an actor in your future, because then you can anticipate the symbolic unfolding of your life, which is very different from a literal unfolding in your life. It's not about this is going to happen, not at all, but it's about, oh, you're entering a period when Saturn as a symbol is going to be very strong.

Now, what does Saturn mean? Well, it means a number of things. It means restrictions. It could mean limitations. It could also mean materialization. So maybe it's a good period for you, instead of going all over the place, to actually focus more in your inner life

to what you want to achieve and maybe now or say in the next year now is a good time to actually materialize that project that you've carried for so long or maybe now is the time to study whatever it is you're engaged with that's what i mean by an ethical practice to co-create it because I think it's about engaging with the symbol in order to lead a more conscious life. So I was a bit surprised and maybe it's because I don't know a lot but I didn't realize you could use astrology on an event like you did with Apollo. I thought it would be on a person and their birth. An astrological chart is nothing but a chart of the sky at a particular moment. That's all it is. You know, when somebody draws your astrological chart or an astrological chart,

it is at a given moment a reflection of how the sky looks like. That's all it is. So in that sense, you could draw the chart of a snail being born. And this is why actually it's very important to know when you see a chart, you cannot assume that it's from a person. It's a chart is not of a person or of something. A chart is a reflection of the sky at a given moment. Now, if that given moment is your birth, the time of your birth, then it's relevant to you. If it's the moment of the birth of a fly, it's relevant to the fly. And you obviously cannot draw the same conclusions on the chart of a fly compared to the chart of a person.

But it can also reflect a moment in time of an event. In this particular instance, the time when the Eagle, the lunar module, landed on the lunar surface. Then it landed at this particular time. Then what was the sky looking like at that time? There are maps of the sky, nothing. That makes sense. I appreciate that. That just broke it down for me a little bit. Where did you get this information? Was it just out there on Apollo in the exact time it landed? Yeah, it's out there. It's very easy to find.

And it's on the NASA website as well. They just give all the information. So it's very easy to find. So what you found was there was a connection. It just happened to be a very precise connection between what was happening in the stars with the landing on the moon. Well, yeah, I saw the chart of the moon landing was really interesting in different ways. And I don't want to maybe to be too technical about it,

but I thought there was, for instance, the astrological moon of the moon landing was aligned to the astrological sun of NASA, which I find very relevant because NASA was created really to challenge the USSR in the space race and to establish American supremacy in the heavens. And very quickly it became linked to a successful moon landing. So I just found very fascinating that the astrological sun of NASA is the essence of NASA, its mission, what it is about. I just found it fascinating that this essence was aligned with the exact moment when a moon landing happened. My point is that this Apollo mission, the god of the sun, is a solar mission

because it was named after the god of the sun, but there are other elements symbolically in the mission that makes it a very solar mission. One of them is Neil Armstrong, the first man on the moon, was a Leo. And Leo is a sign ruled by the sun, which I find also symbolically very interesting. Now, it's not like you'd sing or whatever, but I look at it symbolically and I'm quite fascinated by the fact that the first man on the moon is actually as a sun sign ruled by the

sun and came on a mission called after the god of the Sun. I draw a few threads in that direction, and it all adds up to this sense of the moon mission being very solar in essence. Yeah, because you went in and actually did a chart of Neil Armstrong. And then what I thought was fascinating, and I don't want to give our listeners too much because there's so much amazing synchronicities and symbolism in your book. But I loved the correlation and the symbolism that you talked about as far as Eagle and Neil Armstrong being the lion. I was like mind blown. I also was mind blown about how

you talked about NASA having this kind of niche for mythology because of they named one Mercury, Gemini, Apollo. Yeah, it's really interesting to look at NASA from that angle as well, because of course, NASA represents like scientific excellence. No question. I know I have found so many synchronicities over the past few days looking into your book and having me question some things. I've done a lot of research and have been shocked by some of the things that I have found that are connected between, say, like the Vatican and our space programs here.

Also, some of the research that I've done on angels, Mandy and I have kind of went on this angels and alien thing. And so when you're talking about lions and you're talking about eagle, those are faces of angels, you know, that are described in the Bible with wings. All the synchronicities. Yes, it's very tempting to be dragged down the rabbit hole. Yes. Like, for instance, I don't entertain conspiracy theories about the moon landing.

Not because I don't find them interesting, because I think they are very interesting. But at some point, I had to take a position. And therefore, in the book, I assume that the moon landing did happen. Now about what you said about symbolism, about lion and eagle and angels and the Vatican and the rest of it. Personally, I haven't looked into this too much and I think it's very interesting to look into that and to dig a bit more as much as you want to. But I think it's also, there is a fine line between, it's seducive, it's very seductive, that's what I mean. It's a fine line between being dragged down this rabbit hole and being kind of cool head. That's an interesting exercise in itself, you know, is to explore while at the same time not being too seduced by it sometimes or getting oh

and wow by connecting the dots and covering dots that you had never thought of before i think that it's a fascinating area in fact covering all these different things and trying to make sense of them all without being sucked down completely and losing your mind because where does it stop so then let me ask you you took this information from the rabbit holes that you were going down by one you know discovering one thing after in these synchronicities that were hard to ignore and you were then comparing them and seeing significant symbolism in your own life yeah i i I drew a parallel, if you want. The starting point was my astrological chart. As I said, I was born on a full moon, and a full moon is an opposition

between the sun and the moon, astrologically. The sun and the moon are in opposition, and physically, that's what a full moon is. So I thought that by exploring the symbolism of the moon landing through the eye of the Apollo mission, I was also addressing my own astrological chart, if you want, my own astrological makeup. So by trying to understand or to approach the mission from this angle of sun and moon symbolism, I felt that I was also addressing my own sun-moon symbolism, as shown by my astrological chart. So that's how I worked the parallel between the two. Because in the end, why does one study butterflies and another one studies planets? And why do I choose to spend so much time studying sun and moon symbolism. What does it say about me? I found a parallel in my own,

looking at my own astrological chart and my own life. I made the connection. But it's only a very personal take, obviously. Again, it's not about truth as such, you know. It's about one way to look at oneself and in relation to a huge cultural event. But it's your truth, right? Yeah, yeah. well, it is.

But I don't want to be stuck in it either, you know? It's one possible truth, yes. You know, just for our listeners, I would highly recommend your book. It really, it got my brain going like crazy, hence that I didn't sleep. I will say that there were times where I felt myself going down a rabbit

hole where I wanted to like start researching if religion played a part in the moon landing because I was like please don't tell me it did please. I really am curious what you've discovered uncovered or had realization of in looking into that? So looking at religion, yeah, within the space program, it's also very interesting. And there are two main aspects I've been looking at. The first one is, of course, something I discovered that I didn't know because it's not well known, although it's not a secret at all. It's easy to find and check.

Buzz Aldrin, who was the second man on the Moon after Neil Armstrong, who was a two-man crew on the first mission. Buzz Aldrin was a very devout Christian, and he took with him a wafer and some wine to the Moon. And when the lunar module landed on the lunar surface, before the two astronauts walked and went out and walked. There were a few hours just to check everything was fine. And Buzz Aldrin took the time to perform communion, the Christian rite on the moon. So the first food consumed on the moon was a wafer and the first

drink was wine. And I thought that was symbolically, it was absolutely staggering. When I discovered that, I thought, wow, that's incredible. So what does it say again? Well, of course, it says that Bazalrin is very Christian and wanted to give to the event, he wanted to give a bigger meaning than just scientific achievement. But of course, being a Christian and from a Christian heritage, he gave it a Christian meaning. So that's one part of the subject of religion and the space program. The other part is maybe more about spirituality than religion. And it's the experience of the astronauts themselves in space.

And for a few of them, it's been really life-changing. And it's been a profound spiritual experience being in space. And in particular, looking back at Earth and looking back at this beautiful blue planet in the dark of space, it's been very profound for some astronauts, not all of them, but for some of them, it's been very profound. And for a couple of them, a true spiritual experience. Like the most famous one is Edgar Mitchell on Apollo 14. And Edgar Mitchell on the way back home had what is called a Savakalpissamadi

experience, which is a sense of unity consciousness. And when he came back to Earth, he created the Institute of Noetic Sciences. So for him, it's been a full-blown spiritual ecstatic experience. For some other astronauts, it was not as profound or as shattering, but still they developed a very profound sense of the beauty of life, if you want, and connectedness of life.

And it also affected them very much. But some others were not affected at all. But I thought it was interesting to look at some experiences or some reports from the astronauts themselves and how they reacted to being outside the orbit of the Earth and looking back at Earth from the moon. Why haven't we gone back to the moon? Have you wondered that? Well, we've been six times, yeah? There were six missions to the moon,

between 69 and 72, six missions to the moon. And then we stopped. Why did we stop? Well, I think, first of all, the cost of the program was huge. And what is maybe less known is that even with the first moon landing, there was a strong opposition in the U.S. about this program. Many people thought, you know, you'd better spend the money on two social programs rather than spend it to go to the moon. There was an opposition in the U.S. against the space program. The main point of the program was really to establish supremacy for the US versus the Russians, and to prove to the world that the Americans were the first there. The Americans have been six times there, and there were no real, there were some, of course, many scientific

benefits, but I don't think there were any economic benefits from going there. And therefore, I think it just naturally stopped. But obviously now, it's a different story. 50 years later, suddenly the moon is interesting again as a stopover to go to Mars. My take was that when I was reading this and thinking about this, when you think about the masculine energy, it's the action, it's the action it's the fire it's the

the duty almost and going to the stillness and the being of the feminine energy of the moon yeah i mean in our culture in a Western culture, the masculine energy stands for, indeed, action, while the feminine energy is about reception. Now, if you look at the Hindus, for instance, it's the opposite. That's why it's so interesting. Right. She doesn't utilize the ground of being. It's totally passive. And Shakti is the active principle, the feminine energy.

So that's why symbols are so fascinating, because they are so cultural dependent. So yes, you're right, in our own culture, that's what the masculine stands for and the feminine stands for, but it's not universal, and it could be the opposite. And it's just as valid. So it's what is so difficult to understand and to apprehend for a very rational mind, because a rational mind doesn't accommodate ambiguity. It's either or. It's this or that.

That's it. And if it's not... So that's creating your own, like you said, your own God consciousness, basically. Yeah, well, it's a reflection of something. It's a reflection of a consciousness. You talk about solar conscious. Can you explain that? What I mean by solar consciousness is a consciousness that is based on sun symbolism.

And by that, I mean masculine, patriarchal, logical. So that's what I mean by solar consciousness. Just as by lunar consciousness, I mean the opposite. Gotcha. The main difference, I suppose, is that the solar consciousness is either or. Sun is light and the opposite of light is the shadow. It's either or.

While the moon, the moon is both ends because the moon is dark as it is as she is today but then in two weeks time will be full and you know waxes and wanes and changes and shifts and therefore the moon is both light and dark while the sun is only light and generates darkness through the shadow so So there is that dichotomy. And they're the same size. Exactly. They are the same size, which for me is an endless source of fascination. It blows my mind. Absolutely. It's totally fascinating. And when you bring in the eclipses in that, and it's this dance between sun and moon is absolutely amazing.

It's so beautiful. I have to bring this up because this is what Shanna and I talk about, is we're all about getting to know our own souls. And, you know, we live in a very ego world. And I loved your chapter that you did about the soul. What does the soul mean to you? How did this landing on the moon, how did you connect that to the soul? Well, I'm really drawing on a number of spiritual and philosophical traditions whereby the moon is very often associated with the soul, while the sun is associated with spirit. I'm growing on the work of Henri Corbin,

French philosopher, and Jung as well, and Hillman, who have been working so much to give the soul, or her, I should say, her dues again. And their take was that in the last, especially in the last 2,000 years or so, we have been caught between the body and the spirit, but that we lost this intermediary principle, which is the soul, called the soul.

Now, how do you define the soul itself? So what I've been really looking at myself is the fact that it's to look at the moon as symbolic of the soul. So by going to the moon, we recover a sense of what the soul is, because we have been lost or stuck between dualism, between the material, which could be Earth, for instance, and the spiritual, symbolized by the sun.

So the moon is this intermediary principle. And this is, you know, it's not me coming up with that. It's from Neoplatonist tradition as well. And many psychologists in the 20th century have also worked on that, reconnecting with the soul. And by going physically to the moon, therefore, I'm saying symbolically, we are reconnecting with the soul as well. It's a beautiful symbolism. Why do you think that they chose to name the spaceship after the sun? I think the reason why it was named after Apollo is because Apollo has come to symbolize all the qualities that were required to achieve a successful mission, which is professionalism, rationalism, clarity of mind, excellence, objectivity, detachment.

It's the cool gaze of science. And that's what Apollo has come to symbolize in our world. Therefore, it was quite logical that unconscious unconsciously in a sense, it would apply to the mission. Do you believe in other beings from space, extraterrestrials? I don't have a strong opinion on that, to be honest. I feel like the human itself is mysterious enough, and I don't really need aliens to go there too. Going down a wormhole rather than rabbits.

Happy to consider that there are other life forms in the universe. Why not? Probably there is. Also looking at how important, and maybe it was just the supremacy of wanting to be on the moon, but this was a huge thing for President Kennedy. And I don't know if you've heard, but there was things that had been released that were confidential. It was given to him right before his death,

that people thought that maybe he was maybe going to release confidential evidence of UFOs or extraterrestrials and then maybe that's possibly even how he died wasn't Kennedy our first Catholic president also yeah I think you're right I definitely I think I put in my book at some point that there is more than meets the eye in the space program. So that I would agree. Do you think NASA had hired some brilliant astrologer to help them to design this trip to the moon? I wondered. I really wonder. Maybe. I wouldn't be surprised.

Because the amount of coincidences or synchronicities or whatever you want to call them are absolutely mind-blowing in your book. It's such a cool book. There is a lot of things in this book that will get your mind going, that's for sure. I cannot help thinking that some magic was involved in this space program. Now magic is a very unclear term and recovers many different areas. And I know some people feel uncomfortable about the world itself, but that's how I look at it. I feel there is more than meets the eye. There is a kind of esoteric dimension to it that is not acknowledged. That's my own perception, really. I think that's the part in your book where you broke down,

was it the chicken or the egg? Were the stars just aligned or was it planned? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Your book, I was a little intimidated by it at first because I don't know a lot about astrology, but I think that for our listeners, they need to know that you don't need to know a whole lot in order to grasp it.

Yeah. Okay. You know, me and Shanna talk a lot about being present, maybe taking a little bit more time to be present and look at these symbols and things around you and what they could actually really, truly be trying to tell you. And your book placed that on my heart. And now it's time for break that shit down.

Love the earth. That's Down. Love the Earth. That's what this book is about, I think. It's about loving the Earth. And yes, have your eyes in the sky, but your feet on the Earth is so important. And I have to remind myself that constantly. Or Hillman said it another way. He said, you don't have to grow up, you have to grow down.

And I love that as well. It's about growing down. It's about connecting so much to this beautiful planet and being there and fully present indeed on this amazing blue planet. I love how you called it the Earth, Lapis Lazuli. I thought of the Earth as this beautiful little marble of lapis. I was like, oh. There is a famous picture by NASA actually called Blue Marble. You can find it very easily on the internet and it's called Blue Marble. And it's this staggeringly beautiful picture of Earth in all around us. It's amazing. So that's the Blue Marble, the lapis lazuli. If they came to you today and said, hey, you want to hop on this rocket with me to go to the moon, would you go? Yeah, definitely.

Well, you have pleasure. I have to just say that was the best break that shit down we've ever had. It was beautiful. Thank you for that. Thank you to both of you. It was wonderful to be with you. Very lively and entertaining. I loved it.

Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you so much. And thank you for this beautiful book and for putting your positive energy and entertaining. I loved it. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you so much. And thank you for this beautiful book and for putting your positive energy and love out into the world. Thank you. Where do our listeners find your amazing book and more about you? Well, it's going to be officially released on the 28th of August. I know, yay! And it's already possible to pre-order it on Amazon and other platforms. It's also available as an e-book. I wish you a very, very successful book launch.

Thank you very much. You're very kind. I appreciate it. Thank you. It's a good podcast. It's also very well needed in this world. Great. Thank you. We copy you down, Eagle. We are down. Eagle is on the moon. Eagle has landed. Eagle has landed.

Thanks for being with us today. We hope you will come back next week. If you like what you hear, don't forget to rate, like, and subscribe. Thank you. We rise to lift you up. Thanks for listening.