Sense of Soul - The Tarot Lady

Episode Date: October 30, 2023

Today on Sense of Soul we have Theresa Reed, also known as “The Tarot Lady,” she is a world-renowned Tarot reader and expert who has been reading and teaching Tarot for close to 30 years. Some of the most meaningful sessions she’s ever done surround topics of illness, caregiving, loss, and grief.  In her new book, THE CARDS YOU’RE DEALT: How to Deal when Life Gets Real, she provides a Tarot guide for dealing with and healing from the tough stuff we all face every day. When you’re going through a rough time, Tarot can often be a source of comfort, catharsis, healing and connection to a power greater than yourself. Doing a reading for yourself can help you tune into your instincts and make better choices. It can help you think clearly during moments when nothing feels simple or clear.  We’re not always dealt the gentlest cards in life and sometimes we’re dealt a very difficult hand. Using Tarot as a tool, we can make wiser choices and steer things in a more positive direction. Visit: http//.thetarotlady.com Folliw: @thetarotlady Check out her Patreon: !https://patreon.com/thetarotlady Learn more about Sense of Soul Podcast: https://www.senseofsoulpodcast.com Check out the NEW affiliates! https://www.mysenseofsoul.com/sense-of-soul-affiliates-page Follow Sense of Soul on Patreon, and join to get ad free episodes, circles, mini series and more! https://www.patreon.com/senseofsoul Follow Sense of Soul on Social Media https://www.mysenseofsoul.com/sos-links  

Hello, my soul-seeking friends. It's Shanna. Thank you so much for listening to Sense of Soul podcast, enlightening conversations with like-minded souls from around the world, sharing their journey of finding their light within, turning pain into purpose, and awakening to their true sense of soul. If you like what you hear, show me some love and rate, like, and subscribe. And consider becoming a sense of soul Patreon member where you will get ad free episodes, monthly circles, and much more. Now go grab your coffee, open your mind, heart, and soul. It's time to awaken. Hey listeners, I've been trying to do video more than I have before. So if you would, please go to YouTube and follow Sons of Soul Podcast.

And you can even check out a clip of today's guest, Teresa Reed, also known as the Tarot Lady. She is a world-renowned tarot reader and expert who has been reading and teaching tarot for close to 30 years. Some of the most meaningful sessions she's ever done surround topics of illness, caregiving, loss, and grief. In her new book, The Cards You're Dealt, How to Deal When Life Gets Real, she provides a tarot guide for dealing with and healing from the tough stuff we all face every day. I'm super excited to have Teresa on with us today, so please welcome the Tarot Lady. Hi, Sharon. Hello.

Hi, how are you? I'm well. Nice to meet. Nice to meet you as well. I'm excited about this conversation. You know, it's funny, when I saw you come through, I was like, I know that Tarot lady. When I was trying to learn the Tarot in my first decks, every time I would look up definitions, you would pop up. And I liked your website and you were kind of like my go-to.

Well, that is so wonderful. The internet, I mean, it's really amazing how the internet really does bring people together through things like that. So I always find that really fascinating. I remember when I was learning tarot back in the day, we didn't have an internet. So it was hard to connect with like-minded folks

or to even learn the basics unless you were fortunate enough to live in a city with a teacher. So we're really blessed to have that. Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, there's some positives and some negatives to everything. There's plenty of negatives. But I also love the fact that here we are today.

We are connecting. Even though we are living in different parts of the country, we can connect so easily to talk about something we love. It's amazing. Yeah. the country we can connect so easily to talk about something we love it's amazing yeah i remember seeing star trek too where people would or like even like some of the other futuristic things where people would be talking on these tv screens and seeing each other and at that time you know we had a dial phone with the spring cord or whatever that cord was called and to imagine that one day star trek would be our reality. It's pretty cool. I know. I know when I look at Back to the Future, I'm like, man, we've even passed that.

We just need spaceships now, then we're set. Yeah, right. So funny. Well, so glad to have you here on Sense of Soul and to talk about the Tarot and your new book. You know, it's something we haven't talked about in a while. So I also was excited. I'd like to have a variety on my podcast, not talk about just one thing, because there's so many different aspects to the spiritual journey. And I think that a lot of people seek Tarot cards and oracle cards because it's a form of divination. It's a form of divination, also a form of introspection. And we live in a world that's very, very noisy. And because it's so noisy, it's very difficult to hear what our own inner guidance

wants to tell us. And I think tarot, one of the beautiful things is that it can show you where you're going, but it can also show what's going on inside of you. And again, that's very, very hard to hear. But when you're sitting with a tarot deck and looking at the cards and all the symbols on them, and the symbols are universal, it really helps us to start asking ourselves questions like, wow, how am I really feeling? How do I feel about the direction I'm going? What do I really want in this situation? What's really going on? So I think it really is an excellent way to look within and to gain answers. The answers are always with us.

And we're always looking outside of ourselves. And that is because we tend to, again, live in a noisy world. But we don't need to look outside for answers. Yeah. It's all there. We just need to look outside for answers. Yeah. It's all there. We just need a way to access that. I agree with you. You know, my mother actually gave me my first tarot text.

I laugh because, you know, she's, you know, your typical Catholic. I think I was probably in my 20s at the time. And, you know, I was a Christian. Isn't this stuff supposed to be like dark magic stuff? Some people do think that, but it's interesting that you bring that up because I grew up Catholic also. And one of the things about Catholics, Catholics are, I mean, this is from my experience, they're always praying to this saint or that saint. I mean, they tend to be into practices that are actually quite mystical. You go into a Catholic church, there's

a lot of ritual, there's the incense burning. So it's only natural that a lot of Catholics are attracted to things like this. And, you know, I grew up very, very Catholic household. And my parents didn't even blink an eye at any of the stuff that I was doing. They're busy, but also, it wasn't looked at as something that was dark or evil. The only time I actually ever heard anyone say that is when I began doing it professionally. And suddenly I would encounter people who had belief systems where they assume that terror was some kind of a dark thing. And I'm like,

no, it's actually quite helpful. And, you know, so that was the first time I ever encountered that kind of thing. I never, never heard that when I began my tarot journey. Yeah. And, you know, so that was the first time I ever encountered that kind of thinking. I never, never heard that when I began my tarot journey. Yeah. Well, when I discovered that I had Marie Laveau in my tree, in my ancestral lineage, I said, well, this might be some of that in our DNA. So absolutely. Yes. Yeah. It's interesting. Many of the practices, a lot of people don't even know where a lot of the practices root from because a lot of them are pagan.

Yeah. Well, you know, I grew up Catholic, and I love the old Catholic art stuff, but I stopped practicing any of that as soon as I turned 18. I was like, no, no, no, church is not for me. Organized religion has never been for me. And I realized that actually when I was four years old. Really? When I was four years old, I was, oh, yes, I was a very precocious child. I remember at four, you know, I could read books by the time I was two. I was very, very precocious, very rebellious. I had an attitude. And I remember we were in church once, and I was sitting there just listening.

And I remember thinking everybody sounded like a robot. And I remember also being like, I don't want to be a robot. So when I came home from church, I said, I'm not going to church anymore. And so I started walking around. I'm not going to church. I'm not going to church. And my siblings then joined in. Needless to say, I got in big trouble for that.

And I still ended up going to church. But I remember very early at that age saying, this is not for me. The conformity, I could already pick up on it at that age wasn't something that appealed to me. I wanted to do my own thing and have my own beliefs. So some people think that's really weird. My parents were like, she's just being rebellious. That's so adorable. I love that. You ask any child how they feel about the dogma and the separation. I mean, it's common sense that it's not okay. And kids haven't been yet so conditioned to believe otherwise. And most children would say like, no, that's not right. What? Also, sometimes my mother would talk about religious stuff with

fear god and i remember this was another time when i was very very young we had to do our nightly prayers and she was going on the spiel about it and i said well if he's scary he's like the boogeyman i'm not going to believe in that then so of course i got in trouble for that too you know and she tried to explain it the explanation did not work for me as a very, very small child, because I didn't want to feel scared. I wanted to feel like, if this dude is really is going to be good, and he's got my back, not that he's going to punish me. That's a horrible thing to tell a child. Children don't want to be punished. So, you know, it's interesting, because when I raised my children, I raised them with no religion. My parents were horrified. They thought it was the worst thing that I could do. I want them to, if they're going to come to any of this, they have to come to it on their own. And it has to be in their heart and their soul, because then it's genuine. It's not just because you've been learned, and this is the way you've been told. And so it's interesting, because my children are both adults, my son is not very interested in any spiritual things at all. But my daughter's very into it. She's fluent in astrology,

fluent in tarot. She likes tossing coins to Ganesh whenever she sees Ganesh. She loves anything spiritual. And she even went to church for a while, that was what she wanted to do. So I think it's important to give children the opportunity to find what works for them. Of course, we can guide them so they're not doing anything harmful, but to let them explore and find something that works for them. Maybe your child's going to be religious. Maybe they're not. It's okay. Yes. I know when I think, you know, the parents that I am now, I have kids from 26 to 11. So I look at my older kids and I'm like, wow, I chose their religion before they were born. I did. That's not fair.

I mean, how can you possibly choose one's journey before they're born? There was a lot of undoing of that. And there usually is when you plan out your children's lives before you've even met them. That's, I think, a lot of the problem that in my generation, Gen X, we're trying to undo a lot of the conditions. And I feel like we are becoming awakened. I think a lot of it is that our younger children are literally teaching us that we need to be. Yeah. I am like nodding my head to, I mean, I almost feel like my head wants to spin off on that. I've learned so much from my children. My children are just the most compassionate, tolerant, wonderful humans. And I'm a Gen Xer too. And yes, we're undoing a lot of things. And, you know, our methods are a little unconventional. But we also understand that our children are individuals. Now, I've never been

a helicopter parent. I've always been like, listen, you got to figure things out, even politically. You know, we grew up a certain way, and there's certain things I believe. And the father of my children, we split up, we had very, very different political beliefs. And I was always like, look, you got to figure it out. Does it make sense for you? Does it feel right? And I think when we trust children's innate intelligence, we are setting them up then when they're older to feel confident making other decisions. And you know, one of the things I like to say about tarot, tarot is a tool that helps people to make good conscious decisions. But boy, that also starts at home. That starts at home. When you are trusted to make good decisions,

you're going to go out in the world and you're going to be a lot more confident. Wow, I love that. You're so right. I think that one of the most important things I've learned throughout my journey, which I wish I would have learned earlier in life, was discernment and to trust within and to use your body as your truth detector. And any time that I've ever done any divinity, whether it's using my pendulum or I love rock readings, one of my favorite things to do with students to just find those symbols and trust what you see. And it tells a story in the end. The tarot, it's like, I think it teaches you to trust. I think it's a tool that you use that can help you find that discernment within. Yeah, absolutely. Well, also, I think that tarot and astrology, I'm going to bump that in, because those are the two tools that I use.

First of all, you learn to trust your intuition. But also, there is a certain amount of logic to it. You know, for example, when we look at astrology, astrology is incredibly logical, it's mathematical. Well, this goes together that way, and this is why the energy feels like this. So the combination, whether you work with tarot or astrology or really any of these divination tools, they do help you to trust your intuition. But also when you start seeing where your path is going from A to B, now you can look ahead and say, okay, maybe this isn't the best path for me to go. Maybe I need to start sitting and thinking with my logical brain about what might be a better choice. And when you combine your logic and your intuition, and again, I think these tools help with that, you're more likely to make better

decisions. Because one of the things I found for all my years where I worked as a professional reader, people come into a reading and they wouldn't understand how they got to a certain place in life. How did I get here? I always say it's like that song by Talking Heads. How did I get here? And it's like, it's some of the choices you've made. When you start understanding that, you can see that, okay, I have agency,

and I can make other choices. We have an opportunity then to, again, look within, we can start feeling things out. Why did I make that choice? What was I feeling at the time? What is going to make me feel better? What's going to make more sense for the life I really want to be living? So it's all about being conscious because oftentimes we're making decisions, we're sleep at the wheel. We're not thinking about how that's going to impact us or how that's going to impact other people until years later when we're like, well, how did I end up here? This is not the life I wanted. Right. I see how that connects and that helps you just go a little bit deeper than maybe you would. And let's talk about the tarot. I say tarot, some people, what do you say? What is it correctly?

Tarot. Oh, tarot or tarot is fine. Just don't call it tarot, like carrot. I think tarot is very, very grouchy. And people do that all the time. They'll say tarot. Tarot. Why is the T not pronounced? Where does this root from, the word? Do you know? Well, first of all, the oldest tarot decks can be traced back to Italy.

Okay. And back then, they were in the 1400s. That's where some of the oldest decks have been found. Wow. And they were actually played as a game called tarotchi. So it was actually a trick. Yeah, it was actually a trick-taking game. And it is still played as a game in Turochi. So it was actually a trick. Yeah, it was actually a trick taking game. And it is still played as a game in many parts of the world.

So that's where the hero came from. It was also called Trump's or triumphy cards, which I'm probably butchering that. I'm not an Italian speaker at all. But that was also some of the names they were called. So that's where it came from. It traces back to Italy. Some of them you can still see. And one of the ways you can see it if you're in New York, you're very lucky,

go to the Morgan Library. And they have some of the Visconti's Forza deck there that you can look at. I actually went there a couple years ago with a friend and they're really cool. They were hand painted back then. The printing press was invented. So what would happen is wealthy people would have these cards created by artists, and they would play Tarocchi. That's so amazing. It'd become associated with divination until much later. Wow. I do love the journey, the fool's journey. And a lot of people, myself included, when I first would get, if I ever got the fool card, I'm like, well, I ain't no full.

But that's not what it's about. Now I kind of love that full journey because it just means you're about ready maybe to step on to the path of a new journey. You know, what are these archetypes? You know, I know Carl Jung talked a lot about archetypes. I find myself always in archetypes whenever I'm studying something. Well, you know, there are themes in our lives that are, again, universal, that we can all relate to.

And I like to think tarot cards portray all of those different themes, not just the major arcana, but even the minor arcana. You can look at some of those images. I've got a copy of the wiser tarot right here, for example. Let's just use an example

because I feel examples sometimes really help example, let's just use an example, because I feel examples sometimes really help. So let's say we pull the five of cups. Now we can look at that card, and we see the archetype of a figure who's mourning. Right away, even a child knows a child can look at this and say, that person is sad. And we know when we pull this card, there is something around a loss, a disappointment or grief that we're dealing with. So that is a very universal image. Let's find a major in here. Okay, let's grab the strength card. So when we look at the strength card, we see this lion, the lion looks like, oh my God, it's going to roar. We think of lion tamers. And you know, if you've ever been to the circus, which by the way, I hate circuses, we remember lion tamers, and there's a person that's getting the lion to

behave this wild beast. So we know right here, that there's something about taming the wild beast within. And that is, again, it's an archetype that we can look at. It doesn't matter if you're a child. It doesn't matter what background you come from. We all know that the energy around that we know what that picture means. I like to think that tarot is a picture book with all these images. And again, archetypes that really represent our daily life and our spiritual life. And anybody can look at those cards. You're going to get something out of it when you look at it.

You know, and also we're so very conditioned that we might see a card and think, wow, that dude's sad. So something bad's going to happen. But when we are more open to seeing the world from all angles, we may see that a loss can sometimes just be, you know, shedding and moving on with less weight or something is ending and something's about to begin. So it's sometimes, and that's where I think the discernment needs to come in. Because it's like when you're looking at these things and they have so many different meanings behind them, you know, sometimes I feel like I gotta pull more cards to be able to understand maybe what this might mean.

You have to kind of discern too, you know, what this could mean for you. Yes, because here's the thing. Let's pretend that you and I got readings and we've got the exact same cards and the exact same positions. It's going to be a completely different reading though for both of us because we're different people.

We have different lived experiences. We're on a different path right now. I don't know what your path is, but if we got the exact same cards, it's still going to mean a different thing. And a tarot reader who reads for folks is going to be able to feel out and see out what story is unfolding for this particular person. It's the same like when we're doing readings for ourselves. I love doing readings for myself. Nobody knows me better than me. I can lay out that, let's say that five of cups, and I'm going to know exactly what that card means for me at that moment. This means this. And one thing people have, I want to say too, about these so-called

negative cards. In our lived experience, it's not all gumdrops and rainbows. I wish it was. I wish every single reading was nothing but the sun card. But that's not the reality of what our life is. Because if our life was that, there would be no meaning, there'd be no richness, there'd be no texture to our lives. Things like grief and loss and heartbreak, illness, these are all things we're going to face at some point. That is part of our fool's journey. And why do we not want to talk about that? And why when it shows up in a tarot reading, do people right away assume that's a bad reading? No, this is part of your journey. And if you treat your tarot like that, like, okay,

I got the five of cups, maybe I'm going through something right now. What am I learning from this? How am I going to work through this? If you start looking at it from that proactive way, you are then living again consciously and fully present, even with the stuff that you do not want to deal with. And the more conscious we are, and the more brilliantly we show up even for the hard stuff, I'm telling you right now, that is where the really rich, rich spiritual experiences happen. Not if we're just all gumdrops and rainbows, which again, don't get me wrong, that's what I want, but it's not the reality. Right. So sometimes maybe the picture or the actual art done on the card, which may look,

like you said, even to a child as almost something maybe fearful is not always the case. And so it's being able to see it from a different perspective, going a little deeper. I had Kim Kranz on a year or so ago, maybe even two years ago. And I'm like, dude, some of your cards scare the shit out of people. It's terrifying looking. You never hope that anyone gets it. And they're like, oh my God, I don't want that card. You immediately almost have this like fear sometimes just when you visually see, even when you just showed me, what was it? The, was it the five of cups? Yeah.

So this morning getting that card. Yeah. Of course, both cards that you showed me in this moment, my brain went to, oh, wow, this reminds me of this. And then you pulled the other card. And I said, oh, wow, this reminds me of that right now. Like I have an aunt who right this moment is at her husband's funeral, finally found the love of her life. They haven't even been married a year and she's at a funeral right now. And I thought of her the minute I saw that. And then you showed me as an example, the strength card. And I thought to myself, I always find it so amazing when you're at a funeral and how strong people are who have just lost their loved ones, which you know that they've had their moments on their knees at home, but here they are at the funeral and you're like, God, they're so strong. And I remember people saying that about me when I've had to say goodbye to my loved ones. But that was me just now with your cards. It made me feel comfortable. I thought of her, you know, grieving. And then

soon after you showed me that card of strength and courage, and it just assured me that she'll be okay. She's okay. And you know, there's no random things. I don't believe anything is really random. The fact that we just happened to pull those cards, I don't know what's going on with your life. I don't have no idea, but it right away sparked something that meant something to you. And if you look at those two cards, and then now with the context of what's going on, you know, the Five of Cups does show there's a loss, but there's still something standing. And the Strength card, you know, again, it's courage, it's bravery. But it's also one of the cards that I see as a guardian angel card. So whenever I've done readings for people when they're dealing with a loss, I would probably say if I was reading for your aunt right now,

that you are going through something, this is very hard. You've got a lot of support around you and your angels are right there. They are there, they are guiding you. You have an infinity abundance of love on the other side, that's going to help you through this and beyond. So you're protected at this time. And I literally sent her over an army of angels today, you know, just this morning before we even got on. And Archangel Michael had come up very strongly for me. Yeah, there are a couple cards in the deck that I see as guardian angel cards, judgment, the lovers, the strength card and temperance. If those cards come up in a reading, especially when we're asking about a loved one who's gone to the other side, that is always a sign that, hey, this person might be taking on

the role of your guardian angel, or right now your angels are there protecting you and helping your loved one get to the other side. You just pulled two cards as an example, and you see how very comforting, how a lot of wisdom came with this. And from two cards, just because you and I are in the same energy right now, sharing this space, and how it connected so much to me. But thank you. I also want to add something tarot is a dialogue. Because look at how we pull those two cards just very randomly. I'm explaining what they're all about. And then you started talking and then we're like putting it together. The beautiful thing

about tarot is it does open up conversations. And talking about these things. This is why I wrote the book that I wrote that's coming out is so important. One of the things too, that I'm really big on is talking to children very honestly, I even wrote a little thing in the book about talking to children and using tarot. So for example, if you are dealing with somebody who's going through a loss, a wonderful practice that you can do, whether they're a child or an adult is go through the deck and find a card that represents how you're feeling right now. Because, again, there are archetypes for everything.

And now we can open up a dialogue. Now we can talk about this. Why are you feeling this way? Let's go there. Tell me what you're feeling. What a fantastic tool for getting folks to open up. And we need to do more of that. Yeah.

My little girl, my youngest, she had her first little Oracle spiritual animal card deck for children. I think it was by Steve Farmer. And currently right now, she has the cat tarot, which is so adorable. I love cat decks.

My favorite tarot deck of all time is the Baroque Bohemian Cats tarot it's got a bunch of cats Victorian clothes which is one of my things I love that and this deck just makes me smile you know it's funny I actually created a tarot deck for kids a couple years ago and children yeah it's called tarot for kids and children love it because not only are they using it you know, to learn about divination, but a lot of them are learning to trust their intuition. And it's, again, sparking conversations. And that is such an important key. I mean, again,

you can be a child, you can come to Tarot, you can be somebody who's never handled a deck before, and boy, it can open you up, it can open you up to the deepest best conversations with others or with yourself yeah right really truly you like navigate a little bit within yourself yeah that's a good word hey listeners did you know that sense of soul has a network of lightworkers affiliates program? Now you get to work with one of our inspiring guests and I'd like to introduce you to one of our affiliates. Brent Bruning, master hand analysis. He has studied the life patterns over 20,000 people, including many individuals in high profile positions. Hand analysis is one of the most powerful ways to unlock your self-knowledge so that

you can find your spark within. This session is sure to be as unique as your fingerprints. Book your session and get a special Sense of Soul discount at www.thepowerinyourhands.com and use the code sense of soul. You can also go to mysenseofsoul.com and in the menu, look for the network of lightworkers. Now back to our amazing guest. I know a lot of people, they'll even maybe pull like one card for guidance for the day. Yeah, actually I have been doing that since I started reading tarot. Really?

Because every day, you know, pull a card, and then jot down a few notes on what you think your card is going to be all about. And then later on the day, you kind of revisit it and think about it. And that's a practice I've done for a long time. Now, another reader I know, Jenna Matlin, she says, Oh, you've got to pull at least two, because that's going to show a story. I'm like, but you can see everything you can see everything you need in that one card. So I mean, apples and oranges, whether you pull one, two or three, pulling a card for the day is a great way to learn your deck, but also to practice. One of the things I've been doing recently is in the morning, I got a new deck. And it's by the same people who make the Baroque Bohemian Cats tarot. They're called Baba Rock Studios. They made these Bohemian fortune telling cards.

And I'm like, I need to learn these cards. So my daughter and I every morning, we pull cards. And then at the end of the day, we discuss those cards. So we've been learning which is different than a tarot deck, by pulling cards together every morning. And it's been uncanny on how accurate they've been. But also, it's been awesome watching how we're both really starting to develop a feel for these cards. Yeah, it's a great way to learn the cards. You know, and I love that people have gotten so creative in making these different decks. They have different energies and almost personalities.

Like I have the Labyrinth deck because I'm Gen X, love Labyrinth. It was my favorite movie, still is. My kids love it too. So when I saw they had a deck, of course I had to get it. And it actually, to me, has this fun, playful energy about it. There are decks for every reason and every season and every taste. And, you know, we are living in a wonderful time right now because you can find decks for every interest that you have or every type of reading you want to do. I have many, many decks. I always use just for regular readings, a Rider-Waite-Smith type. I right now

am very fond of the Wiser Tarot because it's a necessary upgrade from the Rider-Waite-Smith deck. I love it. But it is a Rider-Waite-Smith deck. It's just modernized because it has representation, which is very important to me. Anyhow, that's a deck I'll use for that. But if I'm using a deck, maybe for something more healing, I might reach for Radley Valentine. I hope I say his name right. He's got a guardian angel message deck. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. And that's when I want to really focus on my spiritual life and healing. That deck works well. And then of course, my favorite deck is that Baroque Bohemian Cats Tarot because it's just so cute to look at and it makes me smile. So there's a deck for every

purpose. I've got decks that I could use for other things. But those are examples of the go to decks that I might use for various reasons. And if I'm reading for a child, because kids love tarot, it might be the Baroque Bohemian cats tarot or another cat's tarot or tarot for kids you know you might also find for different folks there's different types of decks you want to have on hand if you read for a lot of people so for example if you have someone who's afraid of tarot get the connelly tarot because it's a softer deck or the red lead valentine messages from guardian angels deck is perfect for anybody if you have somebody maybe from the lgbtq plus community they might want a deck with representation so the black queer tarot might be the deck that you pull out for them

there is a deck for everybody it didn't used to be like that back in the day. Oh, my God. I know. We're so lucky. I think it's great. When I was going through my journey through the goddesses, I mean, there was, you know, I was just like, this is so cool. I can even learn more about the goddess Sophia, I had run into the word Sophia in Greek backwards was Baphomet. And that this was something that when the Knights of Templar were asked, who are you worshiping? They said Baphomet, even though I believe actually they may have been worshiping Sophia in the ASCU code backwards. It was Baphomet, even though I believe, actually, they may have been worshipping Sophia in the Askew Code. Backwards, it was Baphomet. So, you know, then you fast forward it hundreds of years, and Eliphas Levi creates this picture of Baphomet, which is really a horned god. It's also representing good, bad, evil, light, dark, you know, feminine, masculine. It's really just this picture of equality,

right? And then you have Mr. Waite who creates the writer Waite deck and use this Baphomet as the devil card. And so I thought that was very interesting because now Baphomet becomes the devil, which is the most common tarot. There's so much interesting theories about so many different things. You know, one time I saw this artist, I don't remember where I saw it. I got it somewhere, I think in some video that my husband had. And this artist takes pictures of like the modern Jesus pictures, paints his versions of them. And he said, you know, when you go back to history, Jesus was actually somebody who was probably with really dark hair, dark eyes, etc., etc. And when you read about the Bible, they talk about the angel of light being the most beautiful of all the angels. And he says, I think they superimpose things. So people might be actually looking at this image and thinking it's Jesus and it's actually the other dude.

Especially since Jesus is called the morning star in the New Testament where they're calling Lucifer the morning star in the Old Testament. So it's very interesting, you know, how we have really just been conditioned to believe one way. I mean, even the fact that angels, the way they're described in the Bible, is terrifying. Three faces, six wings. I'm not the Campbell's Soup kid that Raphael, the artist, had painted that are so chubby and cute. You know, those cute cherubim, cherubim were actually terrifying looking. Yeah, I mean, Eccles wrote a whole book on that. And the first time he encountered angels too, they were terrifying. So he's got a whole book on angels and archangels. And I would recommend anybody who wants to learn more, yes, they're not like the cherub, you're totally right. And he talks about his experiences with angels in that book. Well, I must say, and my listeners know, I'm telling you, Archangel Michael looks like Brad Pitt to me. Ooh.

Yes, that's my version. But, you know, and it also says that the most beautiful of all angels was Lucifer. So, like I said, you know, we've been sold a story and a perception about things. And even when you might get the devil card, right, for instance, what do you say about the devil card? Well, I think the devil card gets a bad rap. Same with the death card. You know, people project a lot of fear onto that. But I'm trying to grab my devil card out of this deck. One thing that always struck me from the devil card

is that the figures are chained to him and they don't seem to bind at all, actually. They seem quite comfortable. Their chains are very, very loose. So I've never seen the devil as something evil. I see it more like, okay, you've made a choice right now. And maybe this choice right now even if you decided you want to sit with it maybe this isn't the choice you want to remain in so I see this choice what is the choice you're making is this choice helping you even if you feel like

I want to stay here why so I think it's a good idea to question your choices when that card comes up. The devil card can symbolize also oppression, addiction, you know, the things that keep us stuck. So there's also that kind of energy. And, you know, but I don't tend to look at it like, oh, that's evil. It's like, all right, what are we doing here? What choices are we making and how are those choices binding us? Since I learned about Baphomet and all of the history behind it, I also see it as duality. Without the dark, how can we see light? If I hadn't gone through all the sufferings that I had, even, I don't have addiction, but I've always, I've been an Al-Anon, so I've dealt with addiction. But you know, had I not, I wouldn't be who I am.

Absolutely. It's those decisions that really make us, they make us. Now, the interesting thing too, when you look at the lovers of the devil, first of all, they're both connected by the number six. The lovers is ruled by six. The devil's ruled by 15. If you add one plus five, it's six. So these two cards are actually mirror images of each other. Lovers is often associated with duality. So I love the fact that you brought that up for the devil card.

And we can also look at the similarities here. They're both showing, again, choices. And what I think of these two cards, I think of the angel and the devil on each shoulder. Yeah, what is the choice you're making? Are you making a healthy choice? Are you making something you're later on going to say, probably shouldn't have dated that dude should have gone in this other situation and said no. So both of them speak about not just duality, but also again, choice. And I just find it fascinating how they're connected like that with the number six.

Yeah, that is fascinating. Six became very important in my journey because the beginning of my last name is Bavra. And the Vav in the Hebrew alphabet is the six letters, also the six number. And so that became a big part of kind of my study throughout my Sophia journey because in Baphomet and Sophia, they have Vav. So interesting. Yeah. I met a numerologist many years ago, and he was quite good. He passed away, unfortunately. He said letter Bs are actually very lucky.

Like if you have them in your name, and I don't remember anymore, but it's just a long time ago. Well, J.J. Hertak said that. Letter Bs are lucky. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Well, I had J.J. Hertak on, author of Keys of Enoch and one of the translators of Pistis Sophia. And he said Bs also stand for victory.

Of course, you would think maybe that, but yeah. And he also explained in detail about the Vav in the six. Guess what? It also stands for duality. So the Vav actually is the word and, and it connects things. It unifies things. So that's interesting. We were just talking about the six and same thing. So isn't it interesting how everything is so connected, has so much meaning? Yeah, I mean, they all overlap. And in tarot, one of the wonderful things you can see is that numbers and symbols and a lot of them come together in surprising ways. And I really, really love that about tarot. You know, I've been studying it for over 40 years, and I still discover new things. There's so much I don't

know. And when you start playing with them and piecing them together, it's like, oh, my God, duh, I do that all the time. I'm like, of course, why didn't I think of that? And that's one of the things I love about all these mystical topics. You're always going down rabbit holes, and you're learning so many different things and how they all go together. And, you know, that's what makes it, you know, not just interesting, but fun. Yeah, you're like a student for life. You can't ever possibly know all of it. I think that's what makes it divine. It's not finite. Yes, There's so much wisdom and knowledge that we have yet to uncover. And one of the things I also think about, and I'm a big fan of music, I think, you know, one of the things I'm sad about is that

I'm never going to hear all the songs that are available out there in the world that have been there before me and that are going to come afterwards. And I think of that also with tarot and astrology. There's so much that's been uncovered, but what are the things I'm going to miss when I'm gone? What are going to be the new discoveries? I love to read tarot and astrology books, as many as I can get my hands on, because there's always going to be somebody's new perspective or something

that I didn't know about. And I love that. And I just feel sad that, oh my God, I'm not going to be around long enough to get all this information. But you have to come. So one of the ways that I ventured down in the Tarot is through the Kabbalah. So you have. That's not my wheelhouse. Yeah.

It's so interesting. That's not my wheelhouse. It's interesting. Yeah. Rachel Poll not my wheelhouse. It's interesting. Yeah. Rachel Pollack, rest in peace, Rachel Pollack passed away recently, was a great scholar about Kabbalah and tarot. And she wrote 78 Degrees of Wisdom, which, you know, I have like three or four copies of this book.

I always say in case I have a Rachel Pollack emergency, I always have to have copies of her books nearby. But she talks about it in her book. And, you know, she was a great scholar of that. And it's something that I haven't been able to connect with yet. You know, it's very divine in the 22, right? There's 22 major arcana cards, and then the Tree of Life and also of, you know, the Merkaba. I mean, it all goes together. I find that that to me is another piece of divinity is that it's not just so someone could say, oh, this is just from this place.

I don't think so. I think this is a universal tool. What do they say? There's many, many paths to one well. I do too. And one of the things in the Rider-Waite-Smith deck, again, Kabbalah's not my wheelhouse, universal tool. What do they say? There's many, many paths to one well. I do too. And you know, one of the things in the Rider-Waite-Smith deck, again, Kabbalah's not my wheelhouse, so I'm never going to be one to speak as an authority on that. I always say, listen, if you want the authority on that, you got to go to Rachel Pollack because it is not me. However, there are some things that I've learned from Rachel and I've had the good

fortune of studying with her. And in some of the cards, you can also see the tree of life. life like in the ten of pentacles they put the tree of life in there so for folks who are interested in kabbalah the ten of pentacles is a card that has a lot to say about that and rachel wrote another book the new handbook of tarot and she said the tree of life also shows up in the three of cups in the posture of the people in this card. And I thought that was also super fascinating. I'm like, of course she put it together because she's brilliant. I do need to learn more about this. I'm just not that far on my journey yet. I mean, these are again, things that I would have never put this together because I'm not a student of Kabbalah. But here she is pointing out, hey, pay attention, this is here. And so for

students of the Kabbalah, they can find that in tarot. And for people like me, who aren't students of that, we can look at it and say, hmm, maybe I need to study Kabbalah. It's not a new rabbit hole. It's the theory of moving from, you know, these lower dimensions in some way, you know, up Jacob's ladder, kind of, which is like the fool's journey. So it's that journey of, you know, these lower dimensions in some way, you know, up Jacob's ladder kind of, which is like the fool's journey. So it's that journey of, you know, evolution, which shares a similar story. It speaks to anybody is kind of how I receive it. Yeah. Everybody can get something from it. It's universal. Yeah. Yeah. That word universal. It really is.

And we have stories like that from the time we're children. Think about, I mean, I think about as much as, okay, I've never seen Star Wars. That's my confession. Oh,

Star Wars is all about the fools. I know people think that's weird. I've never eaten a pop tart and I've never seen Star Wars. Oh my gosh. You gotta get a pop tart. I've never had a corn dog either. So there's three things I've never done. I don't know if I'm missing out or not, but I do know enough about Star Wars. It's the fool's journey right there. Those stories are as old as time.

Yeah. And you know, so all these stories about enlightenment and learning and growth and spiritual growth, even children will find those in the stories that they read when they're very young. Yeah. So already, I think we've demonstrated that you can find comfort, you know, you can find inner wisdom. You know, a lot of people will say, oh, my cards told my future, my cards told my future. How do you feel about that? I mean, of course, I think that anyone's future is up for grabs. I mean, anybody can make a choice, like you said, again, choices. Absolutely. The way it works, and here's my belief, I believe some things are fated. There

are, we can't explain everything. I wish I could. I can't. I can't tell my kids exactly why certain things happened, or I've met certain people in my life. But, but a lot of stuff is within our control. A lot of stuff is. And I feel the future is very malleable. And what we can do is we can look at where we are right now. And based on where we are right now, we can kind of see where we're going. And now we have a choice. So let's say for example, every morning I'm eating ding dongs for breakfast, and I exercise. And I'm spending my whole day sitting around drinking like a fiend. We can probably, even without tarot cards, guess who that is going to be leading me. Now I have a choice if I understand that.

Do I continue with this lifestyle or do I put the ding-dongs down and stop drinking and move my body and get a doctor appointment? If I do that, I could change this. And that may sound like a very simplistic way of explaining it, but it's true. At any moment, we have an option. You know, a reading that I will, I use this one often the times as an analogy of a reading I got many, many years ago. I was dating somebody. And at the time, this person was also not totally honest, was dating someone else. So I decided I'm going to get a tarot reading about this.

I need to see what's going on. And I don't remember much about the reading. The only thing I remember is the final card was the three of wands. And she said, oh, he's going to choose you. It's all going to work out. And at the very end, she'll be on the outside looking in. I said, really? So what did I do? I went home and I dumped him immediately. Because I'm very, very straightforward and cut and dried with relationships. So everyone who knows me knows that I dumped him immediately. Like, man, I'm not gonna nah, I'm not going to play that. I'm not going to wait around. I'm not going to wait to be chosen.

That's not how I live. And I dumped him. And he ended up being with her and they had children. And they were together for a very long time. And over the years, him and I became friends again, you know, because I'm not one to hold on to a grudge like that. And I was visiting him one time. And this was after they had been split up for a couple of years, and I'd been happily married with my husband, so we're just friends, and we were at a restaurant,

and we were sitting there eating pizza, and all of a sudden, here she is, and she stands in the window, and she's on the outside looking in at us, and I remembered that reading. Now, think about that for a second about fate and free will. We got the read, did it work out? It did work out. But I threw a monkey wrench in things. And so it worked out but not in the way one might have anticipated from that reading or from where things stood at that time. I made a choice. I was like, no, I'm not waiting around around this lady doesn't do that never and then i mean how do you bait and free will if i would have stuck around who knows what would

happen what if i fought for it now i don't know that's not who i am you know but somebody might make the choice to stick around so it might might have turned out very, very differently. So was the reading right? It was right. Did it work out the way we thought? And it took 20 years for that to work out because time also is very, very squishy. So in a reading, when you're doing predictions, oftentimes things will work out.

And one of the things I recommend is keeping a journal. I'm a huge fanatic on that because there are times also where I've done readings for myself and I know to write that stuff down and I'll look back at it and I'll be like, I did that reading three years ago and boy, did that pan out, but not the way I thought, but it did work out. It's so cool. It is so cool.

I love that about tarot. Yeah. It seems like there's some divine assistance. I used to feel that I had angels that were helping me and guiding me for the longest time, showing me synchronicity or visiting me and giving me wisdom in my dreams. But it shifted over the past, I'd say, year and a half, two years through this whole Sophia journey. Now it seems like it's my higher self. That's actually, or maybe a future version of myself,

but it's more of my own energy that I'm connecting with. That's guiding me. That's the way I feel. I always feel like we are all energetic beings. Everything's made out of energy. I mean, we're all just a bunch of atoms arranged in different ways. Even this phone is made out of the same atoms that I'm made out of. It's just arranged differently. So it's a phone, not a human. And so everything's made out of energy. Everything, if you're sensitive to that, you're going to feel your surroundings, you're going to feel the people around you,

you're going to be able to feel that. And I'm very, very plugged in so much the point that I sometimes have to make sure I shut it down. So I don't go walking around like a great big open feeling machine. I don't like that. But I know that when I pay attention to those feelings, and how things feel around me and how people feel, I tend to make much better decisions. And a lot of us don't do that. We don't do that. So I, yes, I, you can call it higher guidance. You can call it whatever.

I think it's energy. And I'm very, very sensitive to that. And I think most of us are, but we don't, we tend to ignore it. One of the things I think people do with intuition, everyone assumes you've got to be special of intuition or higher guidance or inner wisdom. No, you we all have it even kids have it but the problem is we are conditioned to not listen and so we again we're coming back to the same thing we look to someone outside of ourselves to help us make decisions and to guide us and it's like wait a minute though but you've got a feeling there. This isn't right for you.

And why are you not listening to that? If I would have listened to everything, every piece of advice my parents gave me, my life would have turned out remarkably different, and it would have been very unhappy. And many of the decisions I made in life, I made based on a feeling. And those feelings were right for me. They were sometimes very difficult. They took me on a treacherous path, but they always got me home to where I needed to be. And so when we really trust that inner wisdom, that inner guidance, you will find your way home.

You just got to learn to listen to it. I just pictured you as a four-year-old rebellious child saying, I will make my own choices here. Oh my God, my parents. It's funny because I was the child that rarely got punished. And I was probably the one they should have been watching. I was very rebellious. I always say I had a lot of bad ideas early on. And I was just very much an individual. And I kind of knew what I was going to be. I was here to do something different with my life. I knew that early on.

I just didn't know what. And I found it. That's awesome. Now, do you also teach people how to read Tarot? Yes. I no longer read for the public. My energy now, because I am getting ready for retirement in a few years. That's just a couple of years away.

So the big focus now is like, okay, we got to get set up for retirement. So I need to make sure that I'm giving people as much information as possible, so that they know how to read and to be good, responsible readers. And so I teach a lot. I actually have a Patreon account. And I started Patreon because a friend actually had a couple friends said you should do Patreon, Patreon, Patreon. I'm like, eh, I don't know. But what is wonderful about Patreon, it's an easy platform for teaching. It just does it all for me. You can do the videos, it does the replays, it sends out reminders. That's the stuff I hated about teaching. So I started doing it on Patreon a couple of years ago and that's where I do the majority of my teaching. So I teach classes in tarot and astrology, and also in metaphysical business, so people can have smarter, better businesses as well. So I'm always teaching. I'm also now starting to teach writing, because I've

written a lot of books. And I'm like, okay, I've got to help some of my metaphysical friends get their books published, figure out how to write because there's other people out there who have a lot of information and legacies they need to create. So I teach a lot. It's my passion. Sweet. So what is your Patreon so that people can check that out? Oh, yeah. You can go patreon.com and then it's forward slash the tarot lady. Almost everything you can put me on is the tarot lady. Yes, you are the tarot lady.

I love that I'm talking to the tarot lady because literally I have referenced you and used you so many times. I love that. Again, we're creating again, getting that information out there. And I just think it's so interesting that I'm doing that because I just remember,

I just remember when I was studying and trying to learn Shanna back in the day, and I sound like I'm really ancient. I mean, I'm hit retirement age. It was so hard to find this information. And I feel blessed that I can access it, but also share what I know and share my experiences. So experiences to help people be better and maybe avoid some of the heartaches and problems I learned the hard way in my career because I didn't have guidance. Yeah, I agree. I always, that's why I started this podcast, you know, because I know how lonely it can be, you know, this journey. And so to find a community, to find a teacher, right. You know, cause it is very, very, it's very confusing when you start to awaken to

see the world with new eyes. It's very, it's very confusing to learn to trust that gut feeling when you've been ignoring it your whole life. I agree a million percent. And it's always better when we have community and like-minded people and fellow seekers. You know, I'm a Gemini and I always like to say, Geminis are always searching for their missing twin. We're always looking for people who are seeking. We want to be around that energy because we want to learn and we learn more when we have other people around us. Don't get me wrong. I love my lone wolf side too. But it's wonderful to have a community of fellow folks who are just trying to answer, what is this thing called?

What is this? Yeah. There's a lot of seekers. That's probably why podcasts like mine are so popular. Because people are looking, you know, for answers. When we're just all telling them, you have the answers. You already have them. You have it.

It's all right there. Trust yourself. You got to learn to trust yourself. You know, my children are adults, like I mentioned earlier. And they're making their own little adult mistakes here and there. Well, sometimes not little ones. And the one thing I'll say, you'll figure this out you've got you've got this you're going to figure it out you will figure it out you've got to trust yourself and i think that's something everybody needs to hear you can figure this out you've got this you have the information you have the

intuition it's all there right there for you to access anytime you want. And pick up a deck if you don't have one, because it's great guidance. And it's a great teacher to help you find that. And tell them where they can get your decks and to get your book that's going to be out in October. Yeah, my latest book is book number nine. It's called The Cards Are Dealt, How to Deal When Life Gets Real, a tarot guidebook. And it is about how to read tarot for some very hard situations like grief and loss, which we talked about today, we touched on that. And so I share a lot of spreads and advice on how to do readings on these topics. And I also share professional tips, because sometimes, you know, we live in a society where people don't like to talk about these things. And sometimes readers unintentionally cause harm in the readings, because they'll say things like everything happens for a reason, which is a very unhelpful thing to say. So I've got a lot of tips

in there. So we can deliver healthy readings if we're reading for the public, but also really helpful readings if we're looking for introspection. We actually also have a tarot journal coming out, a wiser tarot journal for folks who want to journal, which I think is a great practice for if you're learning tarot, but also if you are trying to understand yourself. So I do a lot of journaling. One of my practices and people can learn all about me and my books and everything that I'm doing. My website's the best place to find me, theterralady.com. So check it out and you'll see what books are out there and what more are coming. Well, thank you so much for all that you do.

And so before you retire, I'm so grateful that I get to thank you and share this wisdom with my listeners. And I hope that everyone checks out your book, your Patreon, which before you decide to hang up your hat. A couple more years and I am hanging that hat up. So I'm like, if you want to study with me now, now's the best time. But Shanna, thank you so much for inviting me onto your podcast. It's been so great talking to you. I've learned something now about Sophia, and I'm going to go and have to get curious and nosy about what you're studying there because you certainly piqued my interest with what

you taught me today. Thank you. Oh, good. I'm certainly glad. Thank you. I've learned a lot too. Thanks for listening to Sense of Soul Podcast. And thanks to our special guests for joining me. If you want more of Sense of Soul, check out my website at www.mysenseofsoul.com, where you can work with me one-on-one or help support Sense of Soul Podcast

by donating to my coffee fund. Thanks for listening.