Sense of Soul - The Tetra Goddess - The Four Phases of a Woman

Episode Date: July 23, 2025

Move over Triple Goddess, meet the Tetra Goddess! In this special episode, Shanna welcomed three amazing women to join her in representing the new and evolved FOUR phases of the woman or as Shanna named her the Tetra Goddess. Each a living facet of the Tetra Goddess, guided by the moon’s eternal rhythm, together in sisterhood they discuss their personal journey through the Divine Feminine that lives within each of them. The Maiden’s adventurous nature, the Mother’s nurturing heart, the Queen’s sovereign truth, and the Crone’s wisdom and deep knowing. Representing the Maiden Goddess is Justice Klein, she is a multidimensional artist and founder of Cacao & I. www.cacaoandi.com Representing the Mother Goddess Chyla Walsh. She is a mother, yoga instructor, women’s empowerment coach, founder of Female Rebels and co-owner of SomaEnergetics, (SOS affiliate) www.femalerebels.com Representing the Queen Goddess  Sense of Soul host, Shanna Vavra is an Intuitive, Ancestral Healing Genealogist, Reiki Master Teacher, Spiritual Journey Mentor, and Mother.  www.senseofsoulpodcast.com Representing the Crone Goddess we have Rajashree Ma. As the lineage holder of Kali-Ki Reiki®, Founder of the Wisdom School and Author of May the Love Force Be With You. https://thewisdomschool.us      

Today I'm having a discussion with three amazing women who are all joining me to represent different phases of their womanhood. Representing the maiden, Justice Klein, she is a multi-dimensional artist and founder of Cacao and I, a ceremonial cacao project rooted in ritual, reciprocity, and remembrance. She weaves together plant medicine, creative expression, and movement to guide others into deeper connection with their inner truth and the natural world. In her season of maidenhood, Justice walks the path of freedom, discovery, and devotion. Representing the Mother Goddess, we have Kyla Walsh.

She is a mother, yoga instructor, women's empowerment coach, and founder of Female Rebels, a movement born in 2015 to gather women in sacred practices, activate purpose, and raise global consciousness. She is also the co-owner of Soma Energetics. However, Kyla's most cherished role remains being a mother and a devoted partner to her beloved. And I will be representing the Queen Goddess. For those who don't know, I am an intuitive ancestral healing genealogist, a Reiki master teacher, a Journey Mentor, and I am the host of Sense of Soul Podcast. I am a spiritual sleuth and a seeker at heart using my inner compass to guide me.

I have been led to many surprising realizations from discovering my ancestral roots to deep diving into the mysteries of the Gnostic Gospels. I am passionate about helping others to awaken to their light within and to raise the consciousness of my clients, my podcast listeners, and encourage them to live authentically in their truth. And last but definitely not least, representing the Chrome Goddess, Raja Srimad. She is the lineage holder of Kali Kee Reki, a healing and wisening modality steeped in yoga and directly revealed by Divine Mother. Raja Srimad offers mentorship, guidance and healing to those on the path to spiritual freedom.

With the wisdom of 30 years as a clinical psychologist, yoga and meditation teacher, as well as her mastery of four Reiki lineages, Rajasri Ma can assist you in releasing stuck trauma and karma to experience the Love Force energy that is your birthright as an embodied soul. She is also the author of May the Love Force Be With You, Kali Kirike Healing Through the Divine Mother and Yogic Wisdom. Welcome Divine Sisters to this sacred gathering where we will honor the Goddess in each one of us. As we come together from various phases of our lives

and different corners of the United States, we unite and share our purpose to celebrate and awaken the divine power that is within each of us. Together, we embrace the wisdom of what I've been calling her since I've been putting this together, is the Tetra Goddess. So thank you so much for being with me to help explore and empower and journey and unite

each of us and also all of her within us. Representing the maiden, please welcome Justice. Thank you for having me. First off, I'm really honored to be here representing the maiden voyage and be in a room with other women in the different phases of the goddess. A little bit about me. I'm here in Humboldt, California, sending prayers from the Redwoods. My title that I've come to in this moment is a multi-dimensional artist and I'm also the founder of a cacao project, Cacao and I, where we source ceremonial cacao from a family farm in Peru and share that with the world, share that with everyone that I can. And it's just another way of extending that mission of mine

to come back to the earth, come back to ritual, come back to presence and the wholeness of yourself. So yeah, that's a little bit about me. Super excited. So I know Justice and she's a dear soul sister of mine. And I love hearing you share your journey. I'm like tearing up a little bit like the mama and me is like, oh, baby, because I've known you for like 10 years now

watching you birth all of your new projects and this new life now in the red woods. I'm so excited for you. But the cacao and I project especially just resonates with me. I have lots of different blends at my house from Justice and I just adore you. And I still feel so deeply connected to my maiden journey and especially when I get to connect with my maiden friends. And so it's so nice to like be with you because I go like, whoa, like the little fairy and he's like,

So I love to know, like, what does your maidenhood journey feel to you? Like it's given you the option and spaciousness to explore like your freedom, your creativity, reorienting yourself and kind of discovering who you are in that chapter. Yeah, I just I feel the little tingles every time I see you too. And yeah, you were there at the very, very beginning of it all. So it's really wild. My first yoga class, like official yoga class was with Kyla. And she came and fixed my Chaturanga with her little lioness energy. And I was like, Oh, yeah, this is my girl. Yeah. So thanks for

being a pillar of a sister in my life. Yeah. Freedom and expression and spaciousness to just experience the maiden phase of my life has been so chaotic, but also so like exploratory. And I feel like my main mission given to me in this phase was just to go and explore and being okay with where that takes me. And there's this like, part of me that like, tries to come back to like the shoulds and the, oh, we need to root, we need to be in one place, but my little soul and my maiden journey has taken me like all over the world. And just when I think that I'm rooting, it's like listening again and being like,

oh, you're actually called to a different place and to infuse yourself into a different community and learn a different lesson and initiation over here. And so really like claiming that has been the main lesson and also that permission slip into the free will So really like claiming that has been the main lesson. And also that permission slip into the freedom of that deep listening and fine tuning my inner compass and allowing things to start over again and again and again

and also remembering those center points that I learned about myself along the way. It's almost like I'm collecting pieces of myself around the world. And I don't know if that's just like a me thing. But I think it's an example of, in the maiden phase, this essence of freedom that we're gifted and sometimes can feel like a step back

is simultaneously your permission slip to be more yourself, to find more of yourself, whether that's freedom to just buy a plane ticket and go across the world and live in a different country or taking yourself out of your routine and finding new people in your small town. It's like there's so many ways that this shows up for people in this journey. So it doesn't have to look like mine. I just wanted to state that. But yeah, it's been such a yeah, exploratory time is the main word that keeps coming to my heart. And it continues.

That's why I'm literally starting a whole new journey in the opposite end of California that I grew up in. I'm like, how far away from my hometown can I get? I am so envious of that natural non-attachment, which is something I have to practice. I love that. But how has the relationship with creative expression evolved during your phase of maidenhood? And like, what are some of maidenhood in like what are some of the practices and projects that are lighting up within you? My creative expression has evolved into so many different directions and it's been almost just like dipping my toes and tasting things and remembering what feels true to me throughout it all. And I feel like in the Maiden phase, we're super open and our feelers are just like, so in everything that it's like,

experimental and risk taking. And I don't know if that ever ends. But it's just evolved to a place where I can experiment, try things and be okay, if I need to let it go. Or if I'm changing my expression again, there's so many different ways that my soul wants to express itself right now. And it's the journey of fine tuning what like my truest expression is. And that's through taking risk and yeah, starting over again and also

finding those true core pieces and asking myself those deep questions of what feels good to create what keeps me excited and what doesn't make me feel like I'm doing it away of someone else. Because yeah, those feelers are so sensitive. It's like we can grab onto things, think that they're ours, and play in those coats, play in those realms for a while. And then that's the initiation of learning. It's like, oh, wait, that isn't necessarily how I want to express the continuation of asking myself. And yeah, coming back right now, it's like what really like brings me the butterflies in my stomach and, like draws my heart forward of excitement. That's where my creative expression has come to

it's like, not so physical, but more of a feeling and a connection to what's in front of me or what's inside of me. You know, Justice, I think it's just beautiful to hear your excitement, your enthusiasm excitement, your enthusiasm for the newness, for the discovery. And you talked about, you know, collecting yourself as you go around the world, and remembering, remembering what is true for you, which to me is something that is important at every stage of life. And you mentioned, you know, this initiation here and this lesson here. I'm wondering if you'd be willing to share with us

just an example of a lesson or an initiation that has come to you on your journey so far. Yes, I definitely can. I feel like my most recent initiation has been the biggest one yet. And that was the question of who am I when all the titles, all the certificates, all the names that I call myself completely fall away? Who am I then to strip myself naked, fully standing there on the stage? And yeah, it's like a whole new level of questioning because like I said, you're collecting pieces along the way and you're a student. So it's like, okay, I'm taking on this title and living through that lens for a while. And it's like, yes, these

are pieces of me, but also like, go back to the very beginning without putting all the layers on what is that true remembering within myself and yeah, that one's been scary, honestly, because it's been the biggest question of my values, my beliefs again, when I felt before this question so secure and so in exactly where I was supposed to be. And all right, this point in my life, this is what it's going to look like. This is what my life is going to look like.

It's like, maybe not. All right, this point in my life, this is what it's gonna look like. This is what my life is gonna look like. But it's like, maybe not. What happens if it doesn't look like that? What do you feel like and what do you connect to then? And that initiation, that questioning has really brought me back to a simplicity of me just simply being an artist of life and exploring that. And I'm still

now and seeing how that wants to come and what I'm offering the world, what that wants to show up like in my day to day. And initiations for me are such portals into deeper understanding of where I am in this moment. And finding those cracks of myself that need that extra love that extra attention that I had not seen in a while or it's like creating spaciousness for more of yourself to be remembered and yeah this initiation is a big one I just turned 30 and just finished my Saturn return so I feel like every single year is a

Saturn return but it feels optimistic at this moment of this initiation and being in the initiatory phase of the maiden, what I've learned and acquired over fired over the many initiations is like that steady embodiment that it's going to be okay. And how strong and resilient and intelligent like my soul is, but then also like this like human body that I got put in. I'm like, okay, we got this. So we got this and I'm rocking it through and the negotiations are definitely here. Great. I once was in a cacao ceremony and something that was said to me from this young shaman who was on a mission going around to different places. He said, we experience our first death when we leave our mother's breast. And it stuck with me because we always see everything so final,

but yet it's just another phase. Which Kyla is very much still in that mother phase and experiencing her beautiful girls leaving her breast and taking those first steps. Representing the Mother Goddess, please welcome Kyla. This is so beautiful. I feel like this is like a dream of mine to be in community with all the different phases of the women. So my journey began in the yoga worlds about 15 years ago in Colorado, which is where you are, Shanna.

And that kind of led me very quickly to, you know, leaving my corporate job. I was working in hospitality and just leaping into the unknown in true maiden fashion. Like, what am I doing next? It's time to fly. I ended up moving a lot. So I share that in connection with justice. I was reflecting on my conversation with Shanna where we had a talk recently and

I felt a little bit like wow my journey feels a little all over the place and so it's so refreshing to hear you speak to that justice because that had so much to do with my becoming and I got to a place where I was teaching full-time in Santa Barbara, and I felt this really deep call from the community. My friends and my sisters would stay after class and they would want to talk. I was like, I think there's something here. I think there's more of a desire. So that led me to Birthing Female Rebels, which was purely co-created with Source.

I would sit on my porch and just be like, okay, what does this beautiful project want to be called? And Female Rebels came through really strong and I've gotten to witness her soul and her journey in the world because when I share her name with people, they're immediately, if there's a connection in their soul, they're immediately like, what's that? I want to know about that. And so it's really a movement, bringing women together and elevating our individual consciousness, but really our collective consciousness by being together. I think the magic is in our togetherness. So that's why I love this so much. Because we illuminate so much in one another just by being together, I think the magic is in our togetherness. So that's why I love this so much. Because we illuminate so much in one another just by being in circle. So female rebels is a deep passion of mine. And then that kind of led me down my journey of meeting my beloved Kobe. And we've been together

almost a decade, which is like crazy to say. We were just reflecting how fast the last 10 years have gone. I became a mama right away, so I have my sole son. He was eight when I met Kobe. He's now 17. And then I have my two little girls. My journey into motherhood has 100% been my greatest initiation. So I was thinking of that when you're talking about yours, Justice. I'm so honored to be a mother. I love it so much that I'm having another one. We got another little girl on the way. So my third baby girl, that feels really fitting for my soul as well, like girl mom all the way. And then we have our beautiful son who kind of is our protector of the girls.

So yeah, and that brings me to here living in my beautiful hometown, which has been another initiation in a large way coming back to my roots, where I'm from being with my birth family and allowing that to use your language, strip me naked, like you said, Justice. It's really brought me to a raw place

to be in reflection with my blood, my ancestry, my lineage, my mother, my father, my six siblings, and witnessing all of them going through their initiations, becoming parents and things like that. So I feel like I'm stepping more and more into my role of mother as I've grown. Yeah, I feel really rooted in that now. And that's really cool to feel that I'm like, I am mother, like I am here. This is fully me right now. I was so excited to hear that you had a little girl

because to me it was like, ah, she's gonna have like the triple goddess herself, like you know, in her house. Truly. Yeah. But you know, Kyla, what do you wish that you knew about motherhood before becoming a mother? Everything that I,

everything I could have possibly known, right? Yeah, this has been a really beautiful inquiry for me, because I actually, you know, being in connection with you, Shanna, has been such a powerful catalyst for me to re-enter back into my work with Female Rebels. We've been very focused on Soma, our tuning fork business and sound healing business. And so just speaking with you really truly, it was such a beautiful like spark. And so I just went and got a hotel for a couple nights because I said, I need deep work time.

I need deep focus to be able to tune out the sphere of the home. So I really love taking care of my house, love cleaning. And so I tend to give a lot of my energy to my home and my children and my beloved and my other business. And Female Rebels was calling to me and the project that has been kind of on the shelf is called Threshold.

And I filmed it when I was pregnant with Dahlia, but it came through me when I was pregnant with Satya. So I was pregnant and I remember as a maiden being like, there's gotta be something for me to get ready for motherhood. Like, I just felt so clueless and I helped raise my siblings. So I had a little bit of like a cocky attitude,

like, oh yeah, I've already done this, you know? Like, I know what this is like. But I mentioned this when I spoke to you last time, Shanna, the book that helped me to really have clarity around what my journey was in motherhood. It's called The Heroine's Journey, the book, and she talks about the underworld and journeying through the underworld as a big part of our initiation. That was what motherhood started like for me, and I was in the dark. I was in a new town, so I didn't have

a lot of community, which I really feel like our community can offer almost like little lanterns along the way through that underworld. But it is an individual journey. It's very solo. And I just I wrote it in my journal. This was in 2017. I will create something for mothers to help them through this time. When I just didn't know what to do and I didn't feel like I had the right compass and so I was just kind of floating in the abyss. And I wish that I knew that there was things that I could do. Maureen Murdoch is the writer of the book.

The Heroine's Journey highly recommend for all women. It's incredible and it talks about the initiations that we go through in all of these different chapters, you know, maiden and motherhood and then into that beautiful queendom and into our sage or our crone, they all have different underworld journeys, but you actually can prepare for this better than I was led to believe. I feel like a lot of people kind of say, there's nothing you can do, just buckle up or wait until or, you know, and now looking back, I kind of call that out. And I say, actually, there is a lot you can do it just like with any journey into the unknown. If you set your intention, and you have a really clear vision of what you wish, you will cultivate that against many odds, even if you have a very difficult situation coming into your postpartum. I dealt with postpartum depression and anxiety first time I experienced those things in my life. And I feel like if you have a compass that comes from within yourself, like this is who I am. And this is what I

want this to look like. Even if you can't manifest it exactly like that, which hello is that not every manifestation, it's not exactly what we thought, but we're on the journey and we're kind of like, okay, it's taking me to the place that I actually want to go. And so I wish I would have known that it was okay for me to kind of visualize and set my landscape and that that actually would have supported me very richly in my initiation and motherhood and so that's where I created threshold from. Sounds beautiful the journey that you're on Kyla and I love that you're initiating this program to help women prepare, right? And you're right, we can prepare for all stages of life.

But I am curious, you know, you talked about, well, you just booked a hotel, but what do you do on a daily basis to go inward and to have your spiritual practice, what I call your sadhana. How do you find that time on a daily basis? Because my experience is that it's very difficult when we're, especially in the early mothering stage, as committed as we are to our spiritual progression, we are being called out all the time. Yeah. The initial feeling I feel with that too, which is, is good to acknowledge is like, Oh, I feel a little bit like, Oh, is my practice enough? Is what I do enough? And I think that's good

to just say out loud so that other women know that there's a my practice enough is what I do enough. And I think that's good to just say out loud so that other women know that there's a lot of ways into ceremony, prayer, intentionality, presence, you know, those practices that are not necessarily what we may be put in that bucket, as a society right now, or especially as like a spiritual community. What I mean by that is, so a really big part of it is my meditation practice.

And I actually have found that the least friction for me of doing my meditation practice is in the evening. I had a lot of confrontation with myself about that because you should do it in the morning and your spine should be upright and all of that's wonderful. But don't fight what your soul is guiding you to. And that meditation practice, gosh, I prayed I wanted to be a good meditator for so long. Like I feel like in my maiden journey, actually a lot, I was like, why can't I just sit and meditate because I didn't sit still very often, which was great. I loved that journey too. But it came when I moved home in a big way with yoga nidra.

And I just needed something to calm my nervous system because I was confronting a lot of my childhood trauma patterns that were showing up in being in such close proximity with my family. So that was really big for me, just honestly to help me get into a deep rest so that I could actually sleep and get good rest. I had a five month old baby at the time. We had moved across the country so that came out of necessity and so that's a really big piece and that's one of those things we put in the spirituality bucket is like okay you meditated you're good

enough but I you know what I mean but I will, my daughters have taught me just how much our spiritual practice is just being with them. They are like the quickest gateway to God. They're so in tune. They understand the thread of all life that really matters, which is play. They bring you into that in every opportunity that they can. And so the more that I'm present with them, which I homeschooled them this year,

and a big part of that was my desire, a lot for them, but there was also a desire for me. I kind of have learned looking back now of not just being with them, because of course I do want that but I wanted their spiritual essence to stay really strong and I started to feel some fracturing in the paradigm of school here that they were in. So grateful for people who find schools that they love but I just have not been able to find that here and I just kept feeling the call, take them out, take them out. And I

recognize now it wasn't just about their spiritual essence and their creative essence, it was also about mine. And wanting to really like, be with them and feel that in their learning and in their joy and watching my daughter learn new things. My daughter channels music since she's two years old. She sings words that she doesn't even know the meaning to yet. Like she's a channel and it is the most beautiful thing. And she stopped singing and I was like, she's, I'm done. I'm taking her out of school. Like this is not, it's, it was her focus became

so strong on intellect and that's beautiful and she's very bright but she wasn't having enough focus and time to be creative and so yeah I feel like my practice and I'm always reminding myself because I feel like I could lean into it more and more with them is just be present with them be even more deeply present with them like when you're coloring be like all the way in the coloring and like my daughter loves to co color that's one of her favorite things like will you color with me and I'm like okay so she wants to color together and it's really like if that isn't a practice a meditation to like strip us of

like all of this, I need to be productive, I need to be doing something, this isn't, you know, producing something and it just reminds you of the essence underneath all of that, that like that isn't who you are. Like you said, justice, like, who am I without all of the titles, the labels, the roles that I've put on myself and made that my identity? And the kids, they just bring you right back to that essence that you are. So sweet. You are my mom inspiration since you've become a mother. and you actually, yeah, just excite me for motherhood.

And I'm so grateful that I know you for that transition for myself. And of course you're making an offering and infusing that into the world. Like that feels so true and wow, it's gonna bless so many people. And I'm pretty sure I've met you in the transition of motherhood.

Like I think I met you when you were pregnant with your first daughter. And yeah, I'm curious what that transition into motherhood was like for you. Like what do you remember the moment viscerally? Was it one moment? Was it many moments? I know there's probably so much to this question, but curious. A maiden.

Actually, I've been thinking about this. I always feel nervous to share this journey with maidens. Less so with you, Justice, because I know you and I love you and I know the kind of space that you hold. So that makes me feel really comfortable. But I think what I've noticed societally is that we kind of pool together as like, the mothers, and then they're all together, the maidens, and they're all together. And like, the queens are all together because we all relate to each other and we have something to offer and so I don't want to scare maidens with my transition into motherhood because I'm like I don't want

you to feel like you shouldn't do this but my transition into motherhood was anything but easy. I've thought about is it true? Was it the most difficult thing I ever went through in my life? So far it has still remained true. So even 10 years later we've been through a lot. Selling a business, buying a business, like big, big things that have been really hard. We're dealing with some health issues with my mother-in-law right now, which quite possibly might be the next initiation that I say is the hardest because that's been really tough. But my friend and teacher, Jen Pasoloff, she says, everything I ever loved has claw marks

in it. And gosh, if I don't feel that. And like, I loved being a maiden so hard. Like, I loved it so much. And my mom became a mama at 21. And so I'm the first of seven. She had seven babies in 10 years. And I watched how hard that was for her

to like lose that maidenhood chapter. And so I committed to never do that to myself. I'm not going to have kids super early. And I wasn't quite ready, or so I thought I was, of course, because my soul knew I was. And I think meeting Kobi and my soul son, it was like he was ready for me to initiate too, both of them really, both Kobi and my son. That brought Satya in in such a big way, but it was before I wanted to have a baby, before I was ready to have a baby. So I was forced to give up maidenhood quicker

than I would have chosen. And I've heard this from a lot of mama friends. I do think that can make a really big difference of what that initiation looks like. So I will say that. My sister was so ready to have a baby and I watched her just bloom as a mother. Of course, she still had some difficulties, but I think those claws still being so much in my maidenhood. And I was like one foot in that world and one foot in motherhood for a long time, like, probably the first five years of motherhood, which I've had to let go of, you know, shame around that, because you kind of feel like, Oh, why

did I do that for so long? Like, why didn't I just let go? Why didn't I just fully arrive in motherhood? But it just took me a lot of shedding, a lot of delayering. So that's why I say you can start that journey a little sooner, and it can really support you. But I also had a pretty traumatic birth experience, ironically with a midwife. So that was really different than what a lot of people share. We ended up having to transfer to the hospital and I had an emergency c-section. I really wanted to have a natural birth. So I also had a lot of residue around that birth experience not being what I wanted. Again, here it is our expectations. I don't I want to have a baby when I'm 35. Well, I had a baby when

I'm 32. What do you do? You know, I want to have a baby at home. Well, I had a baby in a hospital. What do you do? Like, it didn't need to be what I made it. I really look back now and I'm like oh I just like hold that part of myself because I went into the underworld so fast it was like like just diving into that who am I you know who am I without that freedom without that spontaneity without that flexibility to say yes to teaching at a music festival at the last second which is where I met Kobe you know like the things that I loved to say yes to going to Burning Man a month before with my best friend all of that stuff that I just I really enjoyed having that like whoo here we go we're riding the wave and it's so fun. And

motherhood, I said this to someone the other day and it was it was beautiful to feel their reflection in it. Satya really forced me to grow up. She really did and I didn't realize how much I was still clinging to my adolescence, not wanting to really have too much responsibility. I thought I knew what it meant to take care of others because of how helpful I was with my mama. And what I actually recognized was I had no idea what it was to actually no idea what it was to actually give of myself, let go of myself completely for another. And even with partnership now, because I've learned that for my children, I can do that better in partnership. But I never learned that through my partnerships before having kids because they teach you right like pregnancy, first you're giving up your your body and you have this vessel that's

becomes their home. So that's the first lesson that we're learning in motherhood. It's there to teach you what your pregnancy is like is there to teach you like if you're in you're needing to take a lot of rest time that's there to teach you if you're having a lot of nauseousness. That's there to teach you. They're all teachers. And then the birth experience, huge teacher, nursing the baby. Shanna, you mentioned the beginning, the first separation we feel, the first death is when the baby leaves the breast. I also had a hard time with breastfeeding, not because

the baby wouldn't latch, but because I just was not accustomed to giving so much of myself, like surrendering myself completely for this other human. And I had a beautiful elder, my friend's grandmother, I was sharing with her how hard it was for me to breastfeed. I was ready to be done. I wanna be done. I'm just over this. I'm like over it. And she was like, well, what was your birth like?

And I shared with her our birth story. And she said, oh, well that makes sense why she wants to be nursing all the time. And she just reframed me so quickly of like, this is your baby healing, something that they went through with you, you guys are healing through this journey. And it's not about just sustenance and nurturance and you know, giving, giving, giving, it's actually about like, connection and cohesion of you two as you know, being here

on earth, but as separate entities and that really it was such a powerful experience. So I went through lots of, you know, shed another layer shed and so I would say it started like when I met my son, honestly, that was like the first initiation. And then pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding. And then babies are so crazy and cool because I always say, the minute you think you know, they change. So next week, there'll be another thing, especially when they're babies,

because they're like, they get their teeth and then they get their whatever, walking, crawling, scooting. Oh, now they're playing with the sockets. Oh, now they're doing this. Like, I just got used to this. And now they're doing this. And so it was a constant just like, boom, another layer. And every time I tried to control and have it be the way I wanted it to be. There goes another layer, there goes another layer. And I finally got to a place where I was like, both feet came into motherhood. And that really was like such a powerful feeling for me.

And I really credit my second pregnancy and birth which was very intentional, very, you know, I knew what I wanted to do. I knew I set myself up, I had everything just like very crystallized and I had a successful home birth VBAC which is a vaginal birth after cesarean which is beautiful miracle and it's totally possible for anyone listening that wants that, it's totally possible. And yeah, I think that really, it was like my redemption and I really feel like that helped me to land

even more fully and so that's definitely a little Dahlia's spirit. She is, yeah, she's like, let's go, here we go, mom, let's do this. Like everything's joyful and like just make it joyful. And they just continue to teach me with their lessons and keep sculpting me as a mother. Now I get to watch them become big sisters. And that I'm so excited for that. And I'm sure that will be another layer of transition. So I'm

still still growing, but I do feel like I am planted in motherhood and that feels really good. Beautiful. My glasses literally were fogging because I had a hot flash. So there's the in-between stage right there. I'm experiencing it physically right in front of all of you. And I will be representing the Queen Goddess. I like your mother had my first at 21 and that was in line. Okay. If I would have waited to 35, I mean, they would have been like, are you ever going to have children to like? Yeah.

And one thing for sure, I wish I would have known was to trust my intuition as a young mother because, listened to the men who wrote books and who told me, you know, don't pick up your child when they're crying because you're going to spoil him. But then my entire body was screaming like go get your baby. And I did usually, but I usually felt guilt around that, which I should have never. And I always really tell mothers that that's always I always

give two things for advice. Like, don't sweat the small stuff and trust yourself. Trust your body. You know best mothers really do know best. My journey as mother is long because I have children from My journey as mother is long because I have children from 27 to 13. And I have one who is on the spectrum who will probably always live with me.

And, but yet right now in my life, everyone is pretty independent, even my son on the spectrum. And so no one needs me to lay down with them at night. No one's calling me. Well, sometimes they still call me and tell me they're sick. Everyone was their mommy when they're sick. But I'm at a stage where it's it's interesting because I feel like I'm a little bit still in the stage where

you are, Kyla and Justice. I'm finding that I'm a little bit still in the stage where you are, Kyla, and Justice, I'm finding that I'm able to kind of connect with a little bit of things I never got to experience that I've been holding off. So I love this new phase that I have heard other women speak of. I do think it's because women now today are really moving into that divine feminine. And so now there is this space that we have to rediscover ourselves at the stage that I am at. And it's exciting, but yet there also was a lot of fear. I'm very curious because what you're saying is you are transitioning into menopause. And so Shanna, how does your physiology fit with your psychology, so to speak, as you're entering this major transition?

And maybe that's what you were referring to, but I think it's really important for women to understand that it is a big transition, regardless of how many symptoms you have or don't have. Yeah. Yeah. And actually, Rajashree, I look back on our interview, we talked a little bit about that. And I gained so much wisdom from you. You are so wise and such a wonderful teacher. I respect you so much and love you dearly. I had actually had an experience with the moon. I was outside. My daughter was going to bring her to school as in the morning and it was cold. And so here in Colorado, you can't leave your car.

You can turn them on, but you have to stay outside with them. You could get a ticket or someone could steal your car. So I'm sitting out there and I look up and I see like the new moon. My mom used to always call it a wishbone. It was, it's a sliver. And it was a waxing moon, which is the maiden moon. And I sat with it and I've always been a full moon person.

Okay. I like how like the wolves during a full moon, I get all this energy. I've been having all this energies over the past week because I've been anticipating it and I could feel it. I don't even have to know, but usually on a new moon I'm drained. I feel something's wrong. I can usually always call it and it sure enough will be a new moon. So I'm looking up at it and I'm just like, what are you good for? Like, what is this? And I was annoyed almost. And I just sat with it and was looking at it. And all of a sudden I felt like the wisdom

come through and she spoke to me and she said you may not always see your breath which I could see my breath right but you know that it's there and I am whole and so are you. I have goosebumps. But that was such a moment where I realized I'm not curved in slender anymore like this moon. In fact, I don't know where this weight's coming from because I'm not doing anything different but all of a sudden I've got this like midsection that won't go flat and you know my sleep is disturbed. I feel a little scatterbrained. You know there's lots of things that are happening to me physically. Wired hairs on the top of my head. I'm just like, are you kidding me? Sticking straight up. And then I came to this place and really with the help of amazing women like Rajasri Ma, who have gone through this before, I look at them and I look at my grandma and my mother and all of the elders and how beautiful they are to me.

And I just stopped. I stopped trying to resist what was happening. And I just was allowing me to to age with wisdom. I was seeking for the first time so much wisdom. I had space to do so. And so I let my hair just go. People have even asked like, where do you get your hair done? I like your highlights. And I'm like, no, this is just natural. You know, health became a priority where it hadn't before because my kids were the priority. It's amazing how you can drink all night as a maiden and wake up the next day like it was nothing. And now, you know, forget it. So yeah, there's been changes subtle in some major,

but embracing it is actually what has given me ease so far through my transition. I'm soaking in everything that you're saying. That's it's so beautiful. I'm really loving, you know, because I was excited when to hear justice speak, and I've been in that journey. And then, you know, speaking about the journey I'm in, but I'm so excited to hear from you and Rajashree and the journey that you're going through because it's something right, like I was saying, I haven't seen yet. It's that unknown that we don't know what it's like. for us to bridge these conversations and be able to hear from people that are going through

what we haven't experienced yet so that we can kind of ready ourselves in a lot of ways actually by just hearing. So I love hearing how you embrace that and you said looking at your grandmothers and your elders and that's so true. You know, looking at the women around you, like you said Rajasri and you're like, she's so beautiful. Like that's immediately what I feel, but I can imagine and I can understand from my own learning of going through motherhood even of like, we kind of, we get so in our tunnel vision of ourself and how we feel about how we look that we forget how we feel about how others look. Like I always look at these gorgeous, you know, women who have like big full hips and full bodies and I think they're so beautiful and so like spacious and just, it makes me feel so good. And then I'm like, and then here I am trying to shrink, you know, so it's a really interesting

thing just to hear you say that because that's a powerful reframing can help us so much. I'm curious from the vantage point of motherhood, what this transition feels like for you. I love hearing you say you relate a little bit to that maiden energy. I'm imagining like more freedom, because that's not where I'm at with little ones and I have a little baby on the way. So I'm really trying to be like, let it go, let it go. But I'm curious what is coming up for you as your children are getting older in, you know, this phase for you as well. Yeah, that's a big thing for me.

That's because I was such a mother. I think from a codependent place almost. They will always love me, they're always going to be here to want something from me, and I can provide and so allowing them to have their own space, their own journey. And I must say it was difficult for me. It really was. When my daughter first moved out, I mean, I lost my mind. We like and she didn't move, but maybe five, 10 minutes away. However, you know, we hung out at night every night. You know, we had this routine and it was comfortable.

And so when she moved out, I felt like my heart was breaking. Now, of course, I did share that I was excited for her too, you know, and I'm so proud of her. But yet I wanted to hold on also to being her mommy. And so everything changed. The dynamic in the house changed. I was very concerned for my youngest. But what happened was actually very surprising. My daughter, my oldest daughter and I became closer in a way. And my youngest daughter and I started to form a relationship we didn't have before. Because then it was just really her and I at night. So like things changed. But like, there was this growth that happened. that is something that is natural that I was still trying to hold onto.

I really was, because there was this fear for me. And there's a lot of fear, I think, in this stage. Like, I feel like I'm always facing fear, fear of getting older, fear of having too many wrinkles, fear of, you know, who's gonna love me. Fear of also this new space, this quiet. I'm used to this loud house, busy. Now there's this space and what do I do with this space?

And I've connected with nature. Every animal in my yard has become like one of my children. This is probably why people start to garden as they get older. I would imagine because truly I think that that in us to nurture remains. This is still in me. And so my grass, my tree, my roses, right. I just, I just started to grow mint. You know, all of these things became like my new babies

that I was giving birth to. And also my business sense of soul. This is like a child. This is probably one of the busiest times of my life, but it's mine. And it's not me just giving to my children. Like I'm birthing something to give to the world. Now that I'm thinking of it, like the space that I've been

seeking that I used to pray that I would have when I was mother now, like I am the space. But it was uncomfortable at first. What I have to say mostly about this stage is that I have experienced just finding my way, and learning to be comfortable in just who I am, not needing to really struggle or resist it and just allowing myself to let this process

happen and to let my children, you know, grow as they should. Yeah. And hope I did an okay job that they can be self sufficient. And also, I must say, having myself still being in that home for them when they need it. Good answer. I love feeling like the ebb and flow of this conversation and it's so good.

And honestly, this is the first time that I've heard of this phase, the Queen, and how important and precious it is. Like when I got this message about this meeting and I was like, duh, like, this is such an important phase. And I'm curious, yeah, as the queen is, in addition to the triple goddess, why do you think this phase has evolved into the woman's phases that we're going through? Yeah, I think this is an exciting time to be alive for a woman, you know, no matter what stage you're in. I come from many women who

didn't get to use their voice. Many women who didn't get to follow their own dreams. And now we're in a place where there's no limits with that. I literally said to someone the other day, do you think I'm too old to go back to school? That's the space that I am. That's where I feel. And I feel like, no, there's no limits here. I absolutely could go to school.

I feel like when I look back at my mom, my grandma, it was like after motherhood. I think they just went straight to that grandma phase. The one that, you know, holds the dinners and, you know, shares the stories like they didn't have that me phase. And I think it's important. It's an important phase because I now have it with wisdom. It's different than the maiden phase, but it's similar because I feel like I'm free. And I've been practicing non-attachment, of course, letting go of my children,

but also being attached to anything that I believe in. Even in the moment, I don't know. Five minutes from now, I may see things from a different perspective. And when I was in the mother phase, it was more structured, right? And I was busy, it was more about schedule. Like, I don't have that. And I literally, yesterday probably spent three hours

watering my grass in the garden. And then I was just sitting there looking at my grass and my kids are like, yeah, it's very green, mom. And I was just sitting there looking at my grass and my kids are like, yeah, it's very green, mom. And I was so proud. But like, as a maiden, I would have never felt that I would have probably, you know, been off adventuring, doing something different. And now I'm like watching grass grow and feeling proud of that. However, it's, it's a space where I'm just so excited to see something grow. I'm just so excited. Seeking wisdom, there's like this spark inside of me again. Not that I lost it, it just was different when I was running around my children all day. I mean, believe me, anyone who knows me, I'm a mom.

I'm a mom's mom. Every cell of my body. However, this is a new exciting moment in my life where I just feel like the limitations are very small. I can do anything. I feel that I feel powerful And I'm really excited to share that with people. That wisdom, I feel, is rising within me and more aware to what our body needs, you know, so that we do go into the next stages, like more gracefully, more healthy more healthy you know having more energy. Let me just say that aging does not need to suck.

Yes and yes we need to make adjustments to it and we need to make accommodations accommodations for ourselves. I mean, I've loved listening to all of you. And you know, I have experienced each one of these phases in my own way. You know, it manifests differently for all of it. And one of the things people don't fully understand about aging is we are never not the maiden. We are never not the mother. We are never not the queen. As a matter of fact, my name, my spiritual name given to me by my guru, Raja Srimah, means queen mother. Representing the Crone Goddess, Raja Srimad. And so we bring it all with us and we've never left any of it. So in my 70s now, I have this freedom, this wisening, I call it this understanding, I get to bring all of that forward and I get to recognize all the mistakes I made.

And I just, you know, it you get to pendulum back and forth. And in terms of taking care of an aging body, yes, that's essential. But by golly, the better we took care of it at the younger stages, the easier it is now. And so, you know, thank you for the compliments of my beauty. And I do attribute that to a life of yoga, a life of meditation, a life of reiki energy healing. And yeah, I've had some work. You know, it's like, why not? Because this is an age where if we dare, if we can let go of those fears from the earlier stages, right,

we have freedom. So I'm very fortunate, I believe, that I didn't just go from motherhood into being grandma. I am a grandma. And I'm the grandma to three beautiful grandchildren. But my identity is not necessarily the need to continue actually with all that nurturing because this is a time of nurturing myself and many women of my age and stage their whole identity, their whole life revolves around their grandchildren. And the circumstances weren't that for me because mine were halfway across the country and also choice, right? You know, I have two 40 year old 40 something sons.

I have some heart children and they have children and I'm very connected with all of those. But my main relationship now is my relationship with Ma, with the divine feminine, with spirit. And you know, I love the four cycle. Probably some of you are aware that in the Hindu, the yoga tradition, right there are considered to be four stages of life. They're a little bit more masculinely oriented, right? But the first is the youth stage, the student stage, right, where we're a student of life. And then the second is the householder stage. For us, that's the mother stage and also the breadwinner stage.

And then there's what's called the forest dwelling stage. And that's where we retire. Oh, sorry. In addition to not having big children in my house, I have a little kitten here now. So part of getting older is keeping the new coming in. But anyway, so there's that. There's the retirement stage. And I'm technically in the retirement stage. But there's one more than that. And that is it's actually called the sadhaka. It is the wise person stage, but it's also in a renunciate stage.

And, and what does that mean? Well, I was married for 35 years. I was a clinical psychologist for 30 years, I spent so much of my youth being a student, I have a doctorate, I've got two master's degrees, yada yada yada. All of that, right? And I've spent years traveling India, being going all around the world, doing all these things. And you know what? Now, now, I get to just sit in my house. And when I go on retreat now, I retreat right here. I just turn off the phone, I turn off the computer, I tell everybody I'm on vacation. And I

take weeks at a time in solitude, which is challenging in its own way. Right. But I have the freedom to do that because all those identities of being a wife, of being a successful therapist, of even of being a spiritual teacher, those are gone. They're gone. I can't say that for the last one exactly, but in some ways, it's gone. They're gone. I can't say that for the last one exactly, but in some ways it's gone. I have choices.

I can continue trying somehow to work out those roles, or I can take on a new hobby, or a new project, or new volunteer work. Those things are lovely for so many people. Or I can just sit in the raw stew of what I am and feel my connectedness, that which I seek to really, truly understand. Tat-twam asi. You are that. You are the divine. And then yes, for me anyway, yes, I'm in this role where I do mentor and teach others and help others,

and we do have Kula community and and there's a sharing but my main work now is Sitting with self Yeah, I've spent years as a doer, you know a human doer and And so now my main work is being a human being. It's not always easy because of that the habits and the way society pulls on you and and and all of that. But, you know, I don't have to juggle my meditation time anymore. I don't have to negotiate for it. So that's why I asked you that question, Kyla. I really admire how you do that.

I mean, what I have to look for more is, OK, I do need to have a little connection with people. How shall I do that? And what used to excite me may not excite me anymore. And it's like, oh, yeah, I've kind of been there, done that. But you know, I still need to take care of this body. So I still go to the gym and I still go to yoga classes and I do all these things.

I get to do it for the most part in my own time, in my own way. And my work is to trust that my time, my way is her way. And when I say her, I'm speaking of the divine. and receiving Kali Keeraki and putting together your business. Was that coming from that queendom energy? I mean, obviously there still was a lot of doing and a lot of birthing, but that in between space where you're receiving, because that's where I feel like I'm at. There's still a lot of doing, but there's also space for

receiving. Yeah, I think I hadn't actually thought about that before, but I suppose that it would be that. It's like when your life is not fully quiet, you need these dramatic awakenings. I had lots of dramatic awakenings. I had lots of revelations. I had visions. I had lots of dramatic awakenings. I had lots of revelations. I had visions. I had all of that.

And it was all quite wonderful. And now it's just much quieter, right? Because it's not so much a receiving from the outside. It's allowing the inside to come to fruition. But yeah, I mean, I think that's where you're at right now, Shanna. Shanna, and I think that's where you're at right now, Shanna. Shanna, and I think it's wonderful, right? And so like let it in, let it in and trust all those downloads, trust all those intuitions.

And yeah, the way that our world is, right, if we are a spiritual transmitter and a spiritual teacher of sorts. Yeah, there's a sort of a business that has to go along with that. I mean, I was really fortunate because I'd had a relatively successful career and I could just do my spiritual business, you know, without really worrying, am I going to make money with it? But when you're still in that householder phase, which, you know, also means just having enough money for yourself, not just for the family. It's like, yeah, you gotta find a way to make it work. And by the way, Shanna, this is kind of off topic, but I still want to do an interview of you and your spiritual sleuthdom

journey. And you to interview me. Yes. Yeah, that's what I want to do. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And that's part of this stage, right? It's it's ushering new wise women in, wise women in. Right? That's, that's, that's part of it. And, and really, it's like finding one's own stability. And some of those egoic needs need to drop away. Absolutely. And that's what happens when you spend more and more time in in solitude. I Love that. You said sitting in the stew of What's kind of similar to what you were saying, right, you know, you know just getting naked I love the point that you made about just like the weaving threads of each of these phases staying within. And then like also in this conversation,

seeing how little breadcrumbs of these phases ahead for me are also infusing and like dropping little hints and so beautiful to listen to an elder and be in the presence of one. I feel like in our culture, we've kind of lost the importance of elders and I feel like it's coming back. And I feel like people are recognizing, you know, to sit and listen and be in the presence of the

wise woman. And so I'm curious what it's like to be an elder and a wise woman and a youth oriented culture. Right. I mean, it certainly has its challenges. And I have to say, when I was young, right back in the 60s and the 70s, it was a youth oriented culture. And I can't help but still sometimes identify, you know, with the old hippie in in me, the young hippie in me. But yeah, what I hear from so many women my age is there's a feeling of invisibility that there's an overlooking of the elders, which is, you know, not part of traditional societies, but it's very much a part of this society. And I have to say, even like, Shannon, we were having some difficulty beforehand with the formatting and all of this. And I was

saying, Well, I don't know, that just the way you organized it just, you know, it was hard for me to follow. And I thought, well, it's a generational thing. Right. So there are so many ways in which my language and the way in which I conceptualize things no longer fit with your language and how you conceptualize things and how you communicate things. And so it's essential to sit with each other and listen and find the bridges and find the commonalities

because we're all connecting in with deeper truths and we need to transcend this kind of like different languages or oh she just doesn't get it or you know old people can't use technology and things like that. So there's a huge amount of dismissing the elders. So, you know, it, it makes me happy, uh, justice to hear you say, yeah, we, we need to begin honoring the elders again. Cause you know what? I mean, truly I have been through it all.

Everything that you all are talking about, again, in my own way, and a lot of my way was not terribly enlightened and you all have grown and learned from your elders. And we also learn from our elders what we don't want. Totally. That's a really important gift as well. But we can't bypass a stage of life.

My mom is staying with me right now. My dad passed away a few years ago. So, you know, there's this transit. That's another thing I think people overlook. Also, I mean, no one ever warned me that this was going to happen. I thought freedom was on its way with my children getting older. And I was very nervous about having to take on more responsibility with her decisions and the things. However, I've learned so much compassion. I have a whole new perspective on my mom and on that stage and how

is a travesty, I think. And it's scary that in our country that we are not taking care of our elders better. And it's something that I think should definitely not be overlooked and spoke on more. Yeah. Yeah, thank you. And it has to do with this like youthful denial. Like, well, that's not for me. I'm not going, you know, I'm not gonna be there. And also, there can be this sense of, and I, you know, I'm not responsible for the elders, you know, that it's like, well, yeah, here you are. You know, yeah, you've taken care of children and, and now it's time for you to be with your mother. Maybe this is an opportunity for a new kind of relationship. I feel healing on a different level is happening. And I'm telling my oldest daughter to take notes

too, by the way of how good I am doing. Good, good, good, good. But how has your relationship with your body and you know, I hate to say the word death as in death, but the transition, you know, how is you looking at transition? How has that now changed over time? Yeah, I mean, let's say the word death. So, you know, it's so nice that we have midwives that help children come into this world from another dimension. And more and more, there are death doulas. There are people, mostly women, who are helping others to make the transition into the next realm.

And it's wonderful, actually, to have the opportunity to explore what can this possibly mean. And somebody was was, I think it was you, Shanna, that was talking about the breath is always there. So part of my work, as a as a Reiki master and healer, I have helped to transition people. And in my own deep meditative practices, I've had the experience of the physical breath seeming to stop, but there's still being consciousness, awareness, and almost a pulsation, a movement. And when you think about birth, for example, birth comes from contraction and a movement, a push, right? And I've come to feel and observe that at the time of death, right, there's a similar

kind of contraction, there's a similar kind of push. And I actually believe that it's like as we make our last final physical exhalation that there is someone, a spirit, receiving us with a deep inhalation. And so that consciousness does not die. We can call that soul, we can call it whatever you want. This is what I've come to. I don't even feel it's a belief. I know I've experienced through my deep meditative practices. Now there are many people of my age who are still very afraid of death and are afraid of what might

or might not be quote put on for this incarnation. And as we transition out of it, I think there's a freedom. And I have no doubt that the experience is probably one of the greatest initiations of our quote unquote, life. If you ever have the honor of beings with someone when they pass, there may be agitation as there is the body's preparing, there may be all kinds of things. But often maybe all kinds of things. But often that final moment, it's, it really is a perfect and beautiful transition. And if you're sensitive, you feel it, you actually see it. And so part of my work is in helping people with that transition and then for for myself. I have such faith in that.

Now do I want to have years and years of illness and deterioration? Absolutely not. And I actually feel that people should have more choice over that than than is currently afforded us by law, which is a whole other conversation. Because sometimes the spirit is ready to leave before the body is. And I think we need to begin to confront these things in our world and in our society. But I think often as people approach older age, there is this fear and an anger at their body,

this feeling of, you know, my body has has let me down. Even something like that, if there's so much revelation in it, my body has let me down. So that means I'm not my body. Doesn't my body, doesn't my body, if there's an eye that's talking about this body that it possesses, right? What does that say? And so yeah, this body is going to let us down. It is going to deteriorate. We know it has an expiration date. But the I, the true self, the true being,

that has temporarily positioned itself and inhabited it as if it's our avatar in a video game, right? That continues. You know, when we were playing Warcraft or something, and when our elf died, we the player also died, we'd be in big trouble, right? But the elf dies, and then we bring the elf back and the elf grows and it learns and all of that. A beautiful explanation actually of reincarnation. That conversation is just like makes me want to go into that world with you so deeply. I'd love to kind of like holistically, you know, I feel like there's like

this like closing of the circle a little bit and so I want to know in your journey, you know, what are you noticing in being in the crone and being in the sage? What are the gifts that are really the most potent and forward for you in that chapter of age? Oh, thank you. You know, I think actually the greatest gift, it kind of sounds funny, is the gift of the perspective of time. So that I remember many stages of my own life, and I see this with other people, where it was a difficult time, it was a challenging time,

and there was this sense that this is how it was gonna be forever. And I see many that, you know, this is how it was going to be forever. And I see many people, for example, that, you know, have rifts in important relationships, you know, mothers and daughters that don't speak for 10 years. And there's this sense of it's always going to be like that. And I've seen just over time, everything, it shifts and there's a pendulating kind of thing. And to really trust that there is always

the movement of change. And ideally there's always the movement of evolution. And so whenever we feel stuck, right, it's a bit of an illusion. There is no true stuckness. Life is evolutionary. And change happens whether we welcome it or whether we don't. So of course, if we learn to welcome it, right, that's what we want to do.

Ideally. But yeah, I think to me that really is the greatest gift is seeing. Oh, this is just a phase. And you know when I think yeah, when you talked about like with the baby, right, it's like, I just got used to this. And I had the same experience with my kids. It's like, I just finally figured out this developmental stage, and then they were on to the next one. And life is like that. So maybe we don't need to work so hard to nail it, right? But to flow with it and do the best we can as we flow with it.

And just to trust, yes, there are inevitabilities, you know, that yeah, we will, this body will deteriorate and we will lose it. But within all of that, it's constant flux, it's constant change. And as much as like at this stage of life, I have a lot of stability, right? A lot of quiet. There's still fluctuations within all of that because that's just the nature of this thing that we call life, yeah.

Such wisdom, right? Wisdom from the crone, which, you know, can we see the crone as beauty, you know, rather than if you look it up in the dictionary, it literally says hag. Wise woman, but elder. Wise woman. Because not everybody's going to claim or not everybody's going to be declared

all that wise. But an elder and an elder is really there. Like even elders of the church, right? They're there to assure you in. And and that can be beautiful for the younger. And it also can give meaning and purpose to the elders. But I do want to speak to the Tetra goddess because, again, in the yoga tradition, many of the gods and goddesses often have three or four faces,

or four faces, right? So there's the four and and what's not often known is that there is a secret fifth, if you will. So if you had the four faces like the four directions, right, and you see where my fingers going, it's like the four faces at a horizontal position. But the fifth is below and it's called the guya. That means secret. It's the secret space, which is another word for the Ioni, which is the vaginal cavity and the womb. And that's the secret space. Then that's the place that transcends, right? The four faces that are facing out into the

world. This is the inner face, the inner knowing. And then beyond that, there can often be a sixth, right, that would be above and is connected to the Akasha, to the great space, to the great realm. And so, you know, the fact that we're talking about the four faces, you know, here we are, we're the four faces of the incarnate feminine, right? But each of us, right, arises from that same

deep dark space of the womb and as well as is connected to the universal spiritual light. So yeah, I love it. Oh my God, thank you all so very much. As we prepare to part ways. May the resonance of our gathering echo in our hearts forever. Each of us a living facet of the Tetra Goddess leaves here carrying the wisdom of the maiden's spark, the mother's nurture, the Queen's sovereign truth, and the crones deep knowing and wisdom. Though our paths lead us to different places, may we remain connected in spirit, rooted in sisterhood and guided by the moon's eternal rhythm until we meet again.

May we walk boldly, love deeply, and shine in our own sacred rhythm. Blessed be. Thank you. Blessed be. Thank you. Blessed be. Thank you. Thanks for watching guys!