Sense of Soul - The Way of the Empath

Episode Date: July 15, 2022

Today on Sense of Soul Podcast we have, Elaine Clayton she is a teacher of intuitive empathic development. She is also an artist as well as author/illustrator of several books for children and adults on intuitive intelligence. Her editorial art includes work for the New York Times and New York Times Book Review. She joined us to tell us about her her book “The Way of the Empath, How Compassion, Empathy & Intuition Can Heal Your World,” is a guide for empaths and spiritually sensitive souls to explore their abilities through exercises, affirmations, journaling, and methods to protect themselves. Sensing what is “unseen” in the way of the emotions of others (and even thoughts, nuanced implications) is not uncommon for humans because of our primal instincts. Knowing “what’s up” is part of survival. But we are trained to tune out a lot of what we intuitively perceive, to stay focused on an overriding agenda or task at hand. If you are sensitive and absorb the feelings of others, or wish to develop your “quiet knowing” to consciously use it, this book is for you!  Visit her website https://www.elaineclayton.com Order Elaine’s new book “THE WAY OF THE EMPATH”   available now. Follow Elaine’s journey on Social Media Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/IntuituveStreamDrawing/ Visit Sense of Soul at www.mysenseofsoul.com Join our Sense of Soul Patreon!! Our community of seekers and lightworkers who get exclusive discounts, live events like SOS Sacred Circles, ad free episodes and more. You can also listen to Shanna’s new mini series, about the Goddess Sophia! Sign up today and help support our podcast. As a member of any level you get 50% off Shanna’s Soul Immersion Healing Experience! https://www.patreon.com/senseofsoul  

Welcome to the Sense of Soul podcast. We are your hosts, Shanna and Mandy. Grab your coffee, open your mind, heart and soul. It's time to awaken. Today we have with us Elaine Clayton. She's a teacher of intuitive empathic development. She is also an artist as well as an author and illustrator of several books for children, as well as adults on intuitive intelligence. She's joining us today to tell us about her new book, The Way of the Empath, How Compassion, Empathy, and Intuition Can Heal Your World. And it is a pleasure to have Elaine with us today. Good morning. We're excited to have you on. Thank you for the sweet card and the books.

You know, this is one of our favorite topics. I'm going to jump in by just saying that I was immediately in love with the cover. I thought they did a great job with the cover too. Mesmerizing. You didn't do it. So you... No, I didn't do the cover, but I did the interior. Okay.

And I can tell you about that because that was... I did the interior a little differently from all the other books I've illustrated because I knew that it should be more intuitive not that those pieces and all the other books weren't intuitive but this was a different process so if you're curious about that I'll tell you it's fun to try if you want to try it yeah oh my gosh absolutely yeah you know the one that caught my attention was I think the chapter on senses where you had the elephants. Oh, I know. Don't you love elephants? Oh, I do. Yeah. I can't even look at a picture of one without getting really emotional. Like when you got to that chapter and you were writing on the senses, then intuitively, did you see the elephants in

your mind? And that's what happened is, and this is for you to try if you want. Do you remember this from art class? My favorite thing in the whole world was a brayer. So even if I'm not using a brayer, I feel really good when I have a brayer around. So it came time to illustrate all these. So I wrote the book and then it's time to illustrate and I wanted to do it intuitively and I didn't know yet which piece would go with which chapter. I decided I would let the art tell me. So what I did was got an idea of a basic image, painted it with black ink on plexiglass. And so after painting a basic idea on plexiglass, then comes the intuitive part of the process

where you don't know what's going to happen. Putting the paper on top and using the brayer, and it's going to do what it wants to do and you don't have any control. And then it will tell you more about where you can go from there. Let me see. I'm going to try to find the one with the elephants. So, oh yeah, see, you can, when you look at it, you can see that some things happened that I couldn't do anything about, you know, just the overlay and the dreamy kind of quality so but it kept its image it's kept

it kept its image really well and i put it there because i feel like and i've been to africa and i do think elephants they're very mystical but they say that they remember that's the thing they say that they have a memory and that once they have an attachment they will gather and remember and go toward you know a person or a place that they know well i asked when i was on safari about that and they said oh no you know but that person maybe just wasn't connected to what elephants do really and the other thing i was amused by by, because we don't have a sense of this in America. We have mountain lions and things like that, but you mainly don't see them. Occasionally a bull will get out. You know, if you live in a rural country, a county or something,

you'll look out your window and there's a bull out there. That would happen, you know, in Texas or Kansas or whatever. But I remember seeing some things kind of smashed over and I, and this is in Zimbabwe. And I asked a woman, Hey, what happened there? What's that? And she said, Oh, the elephants came through last week. So, you know, they, it's very intuitive also for them as a way of life. What are you going to do when elephants are coming through? Nothing but go get out of their way get out of their way isn't that really wild imagine if we had that in america oh the buffalo you know came through you know yeah well they probably used to until we built suburban neighborhoods on their territories it could happen again it could happen again but who knows

you know you're right we've kind of not taken care of the earth in the way that the Hopi prophecy tribes tried to get us to incorporate all that. And we really didn't listen. I don't know. I think we're in the time of destruction now where we're seeing it. All the structures fall apart. It's interesting. I think that as we evolve or think we're evolving, the truth gets quieter and quieter. And maybe that is really it, that we don't listen. We think that when we evolve the new ideas, the new ways are the answers when really we should be listening to Mother Earth and the old ways and the people at the beginning of times. But we think that if we listen to people from the beginning of times, then we're not evolving. Well, that's been going on for a while. We thought our ideas are so great to the point where it's destroying the whole earth. I would say is what's so poignant about what you said is listening on one hand, and you said it gets quieter and quieter and on the other

hand the veil gets thinner and thinner it's easier to hear now than it ever was all you have to do is have the intention to want to and maybe that was always true but where we were as a you know i'm we're very american here the whole country collectively to me is like a 14-year-old with a brand new sports car. We have it all. We have it all. We have everything. We just don't know how to not crash that thing. We're not mature.

Other countries have been around thousands and thousands of years. So in our little mindset, you know, we have it all. And so we're pretty privileged. Yet there's a lot of years. So in our little mindset, you know, we have it all yet we're, and so we're pretty privileged yet there's a lot of suffering and spiritually we have turned our backs on our own native tribes, on wisdom of the East. There's a lot of stuff that we just haven't wanted to hear. So maybe now more of us are starting to hear or try to, because seeing the structure fall apart is wakes us up, gives us a chance to go, Oh my gosh, I kind of think people don't involve unless they suffer hugely. We could have, but it has to hurt first to really get people's attention. I wish it weren't the truth. Absolutely. And then you

just added in another sense. So you said we have to see, we have to see, like, why do people have to see the destruction in order to listen? You know, shock value, you know, once they see it, it isn't real until they see it. You know, like when you have a dream, we can't prove that we had a dream. At some point, they'll probably have something they put on that will tell us exactly whether or not we had it. But age old, you can't prove you had a dream. Just like you can't always prove you had a transcendental experience. And you don't want to.

You don't need to. If someone wants to know if I'm intuitive, I don't care if they believe it or not. I just know I experience it. So when we dream, though, you can't deny the dream because you'll wake up and go, oh, my God, I'm so glad that was only a dream because I don't ever want to go through that ever again because the dream felt so real. Or it can be, oh, I want that. My dream, I had so much longing and I want the

thing I wanted or whatever. So I feel like seeing is possible in so many ways. You know, visually, actually visually seeing cinematically through dreams, people can train themselves to dream. We're not all in the same station or role at every era, you know, in our own lives. Sometimes someone may not be a dreamer. They may not remember their dreams because they're in a certain role or just we can't judge it. Other people can train themselves if they want to. And eventually, you know, through dream journaling and intending to dream, start receiving messages. But I know

that you can, in the most simple way, see things. You know, and don't you also think that like when people are able to visually see what is the suffering, say across the world, this is what kind of has evolved, like the empath in us that is like innate in us yeah i mean let's say we look at images of people and places where there is and there always has been in somewhere on the earth and lots of places actually real a real food desert literally a food and water desert and there are a few people that go like let's say to some regions of Africa to get them water to help solve the issue. And we may see images of it. And we may feel huge empathy, like be horrified and feel so sad and so wrong. A baby that skinny. It's so hellish. Yet we're

all wrapped up in our lives. And we in our lives and we have to be responsible within them. We can also be kind of aware of poverty in our own community and not necessarily know what to do. I'm not really sure. I think we, like in the case of Ukraine war, let's say, when the majority or the dominant culture sees people like themselves dodging bombs, they may see themselves more and realize, oh my God, because they're wearing the same sneakers I wear. They look like anyone in my family or whatever. It could be that there's a racial component where people don't feel it until they really see themselves when we should be able to see ourselves in all of humanity. Sometimes it doesn't strike at home until it's, you know, or until we love enough that we realize we are one,

no matter what race or where we live. So it gets kind of complicated, but I don't want anything bad to happen to anyone. But I almost think people just don't learn until they actually go through it. You know, I also, it's so funny where my brain goes, but I was just sitting there thinking, I wonder if they didn't show Jesus being crucified and all his suffering and pain. And that wasn't part of it. If people would have, I mean, bought into Jesus being the son of God, that was how they got people to have that

empathy for the story of him and his pain and what he was going through. I mean, if it was just a man, let's just say that wasn't part of the story. And he just walked the earth and was enlightened and didn't go through all that suffering if people would have been so quick to trust it all. Yeah, I think that's a good point. So like I look at it in a few ways, it wouldn't have as much meaning if you have a human life where you suffer and there's a concept of God understanding that suffering and all the religions it's presented, the story of Jesus that's presented in a way that I would also say all the stories of Torah, all the prophets and all those stories. And they get there's war and there's pain and there's every dilemma humans can go through is in there. But how do you feel unless there's pain? So a perfect person who doesn't suffer isn't perfect for us as humans.

That's the thing. We long for God to understand our suffering please god you know how many prayers have we said i'm hurting please help please help please keep this from happening please let this happen we're constantly beseeching to not feel pain well and it was the sacrifice part right they're sacrificing their best animals their sons their children you know and then this was the sacrifice of god's son and that is what gave it the power was that yeah although jews never we never sacrificed children oh thank god yeah there was never such a thing in judaism the story of abraham and isaac is a really good one because the point there being angels intervene you could love god so much that you would say god i'll do anything for you i will even tell my my beautiful son the point at the end is oh no you're not angels will not

allow it this is not what we want however it was a cautionary tale kind of because all the other tribes around the israelites were were absolutely sacrificing um there was a tradition of sacrificing they would put a wreath of flowers on a virgin girl and throw her over a cliff, you know, for whatever gods that they had. And so some of the stories had to address things that were around, but that couldn't be done as the earlier tribal people figured out what was ethical and what wasn't. So there was never that, that idea of sacrificing. I know that gets out there sometimes, but it's nowhere in Torah. But it's just that willing, you know, to sacrifice something that means something to you,

that suffering that you sign up for willingly that said, you know, I will have sovereignty because of this suffering that I'm willing to, you know, put before me for enlightenment or whatever, which is something weird that they knew that. They knew that that sacrifice and suffering would get them closer to source. Isn't that fascinating? I find when you think about it, there's going back three, 4,000 years and already grasping something has to be sacrificed for us to live it's either going to be a head of lettuce or an animal but something has to be sacrificed for us to live we can't just have sunshine and air and water something has to be sacrificed

and then to make that sacred in a statement of gratitude, where they were in involvement was trying to only offer the best. Today, what do we offer? Do we offer the best? Do we sacrifice anything? Do we really, as pretty amazingly well-fed, happy people collectively, what do we really sacrifice? I don't know. I look at myself, I'm not judging anybody, but I wonder, do I sacrifice anything really? Sometimes in eras of life, I may have felt like I was like something I deeply wanted to do that I felt was keeping me sane or whatever, but because others needed me in a certain way, I focused on that. But I wonder, what do you think we really do today? What do you all think? Do we do anything today that really, really, really shows we sacrifice? I don't know. I would say that I feel like sometimes we just have gotten so comfortable with just receiving, you know, what am I going to get? What am I going to get? When am I going to get it? Yeah. Well, and we have, and again, I'm not anti-capitalist, but I say it in this book

and in the Making Marks Discover the Art of Intuitive Drawing that we're so hardwired visually like monkeys that looked for the best fruit. You know, we respond instantly to the slightest color or line or shape or form like the green screen behind you has those beautiful splotches of color. I respond to that immediately. They're all the same colors in my own artwork back here, because I know we respond to color as professional artists, the personality in every line evokes from us the ancient scribes talking about you know torah and all that kabbalistically would in gematria they would take every letter as sacred forms that created the whole universe each form and each letter has a personality and so when i

was little i didn't know any of that but that is how letters and numbers spoke to me they were all people and their expressions were full of personality so what I realized though when I was writing these books and in my intuitive process as a reader and all that I was realizing through teaching art and all that too, that we don't use imagery in our society to support each other, cultivate love and inner strength. We use it to get each other to feel lack and to want to buy things. We are pummeled with imagery everywhere we go because they know we will instantly have a reaction. Got to have it, want it, got to have it, want it.

If it has red in it, it's like going to lure us. It's going to make us hungry. If it has this, it has that. People, it's a real study and we need more of it's okay, you know, fine. You can sell your stuff but what if we had a world where we put just as much visual imagery to help love each other how different that would be I just discovered recently the bob right in the Hebrew did you know that's but that's because my last name is Bavra right and so bob right yes I'm actually getting goosebumps right now just talking about

it because it's a vibration, right? But so is the colors. Each color has its own vibration. And I have an artist, she's 10. And her and I have this book and I even bought it for Mandy and her daughter. It's an art book for moms and daughters. And I actually found one of my sons too, because you draw your emotions. How was your day today? You know, draw this. Draw something that made you happy once. Something like that. It was a connection through art and through emotion.

Yes. So it's a very beautiful thing. How did you get there? Have you always been an artist? I was always an artist. I would sit and draw and I loved people. It's a very beautiful thing. How did you get there? Have you always been an artist? I was always an artist. I would sit and draw and I loved people, completely obsessed with people and their faces and what they were wearing and families. And some families had two boys and a girl.

Others had six boys. Others had only girls. I was just really fascinated by people. And what I realized as a teacher early on, an artist artist had a BFA and I was always teaching and I was at an independent progressive school and I realized that if you ask children at five or six to write a story first thing they do is draw mostly there might be one or two that aren't that comfortable even grasping a pencil so there are some exceptions and there are a variety of ways to learn and all that. But in general, people at that age would draw. And I noticed children

were super expressive without a hint of resistance until they get about seven or eight. They reach the age of reason. By then they've had some conditioning where school is emphasizing other worthy things like writing and math and science. In fact, you could get in trouble for drawing in school. Are you drawing while I'm talking about science? You know, I mean, it's like, oh my God, I got caught drawing. It was like a capital offense. You could lose recess or whatever. So what happened is I started, this is in the mid eighties. I started working with groups of kids to get them back to that free expressive place. And there were a few ways I could get that to happen in the main way for kids and adults, because adults also would say,

I like to draw, but I'm no good at it. We're afraid often to even commit a single line to paper because everything in school is graded. Every mark gets judged or there's a fear that it could be. So there's a real resistance to commit a single mark to paper. So this innate urge to create that way, which is so natural for all of us and so so easy just make a mark on the wall you know that's the other thing you get in trouble for but it's an instinct oh it's a blank wall it's a metaphor for us we're born we make a mark just by breathing and being making gestures and being here on earth i said okay you're going to close your eyes because then you won't look at it and criticize yourself and stop yourself and you're going to use your non-dominant hand, not the hand you're used to.

And then you will draw. Just don't interrupt it because if you stop, you'll open your eyes and freak out. Just keep drawing like you're skating on a frozen pond all around. It feels so good. And then when you open your eyes, then comes the intuitive part. The second part that is intuitive. First part's intuitive too, but it just feels good. Is gazing at what you drew.

Wow, I changed a blank surface. What do I see in it? And you may not want to see anything. You might just want to use color and go in there and keep enjoying that free form flow. But it is a stream of consciousness flow. You're opening your stream of consciousness, like in a dream state. And it's like getting in the zone. So when I'm doing a painting, that is the zone I'm in. I'm in a zone. It's talking to me as much as I'm talking to it.

This is the intuitive part. That's really awesome is when you trust what comes as you gaze at the forms and lines and shapes that you made then you are recording yourself what you how things mean to you what and how things mean to you in other words you have associations you have memories that are yours and yours only you have feelings that are yours we may relate because we're all human, but your associations being a little different from mine are a huge impact on mine too. Like if I say, hey, I saw in my stream drawing, I call it intuitive stream drawing. If I see in my stream drawing an apple shape, I'm going to write down everything I remember about apples, associations, and feelings I have about them. If we pay attention, that's all

you have to do to be intuitive. But if I ask you, do you know what an apple is? You'd probably say, yeah, I know what an apple is, right? You know, most people would know. But if I said, well, what are your memories and feelings around apples? If you went into the scenes where you remember experiencing apples, they would be yours a little different from mine. But when we share, we would add to each other's intuitive library, basically. So it takes doing a creative meditation act of some kind that feels good. In this case, gazing on it because it's visual and then trusting what comes and then making the connections. And then there you go, you're all you're already building this intuitive

kind of resource and tuning in. So somewhat and this is covered in the way of the impact. Also, it's not just in the making marks book, because drawing is an innate way to express, we should encourage each other to express kind of reflexively not to resist reflexively but to express i mean it can be hard to just sit down and go um you know like so when you're doing the yoga poses pretty soon you realize you're not really thinking you're just into the and that just it like miraculous, but it's also good to do a gestural creative act like drawing. I had never ever seen this stream drawing before. Well, I made it up. Oh my gosh. It's so cool. I was born in this. I was doing it for years since the eighties with

kids and adults, but I finally wrote the book. Actually made it up. Yeah, I made up stream drawing. But kids are all doing that. All of us have done this. But what I did was realize what was happening. It's not a silly doodle. It's not a silly scribble.

Yeah. It's a profound undertaking. In so many ways, We shouldn't lose it. No, we shouldn't lose it. Well, Mandy and I are both doodlers. We, well, I know I am. I would call it, I would say your stream drawers. The whole time I'm on podcasts.

Usually I do. It's like really, sometimes I can't even do it without a pen and a paper. I have to have it automatic. There you go. You're flowing in your stream of consciousness. You're letting yourself open. You're also calming yourself down because it's an act. It's a creative meditation method. Yeah. There was one time I actually sat here and we had a guest that I felt had like morphed her face changed like halfway through our episode and it was when she

was talking about her ancestors and I just was like looking up and trying to wait for her to return back to who she was and so I just start drawing her and I was trying to get every single thing you know because I was like no one's going to believe this I wonder if Mandy's seeing it. Psychically seeing because you know the ancestors this is also Kabbalistic so mystical so we carry the themes that get passed down from the ancestors we can't help it could be angry at a grand, but your life's going to be so similar. Some theme is going to still be there. So the theory is, and I believe it really, I experienced it as very true.

So the ancestors are really, they care about us. But even more than that, they're super invested in how we handle the themes. Because when we overcome the challenges within those themes, it lifts us up and it lifts them up at the same time and their place in the other world. So we think, oh, we're not together. We're not. No, I mean, they're with us. So you were psychically seeing her ancestors come through her. Sounds like to me. Yeah, definitely. In your book, you used a word, I can't find it. I never heard it before. It's when one or two more senses blend. What is it called? Anesthesia. There you go. I had never heard that word before. So does does that happen to like when you're drawing and putting thoughts to it since you're putting thought to that drawing

or is that just your senses? Or is that all the same? Absolutely in a subtle way in your mind it is because let's let me tell you so I never heard the word until I was much older either I was seeing auras as a kid too and didn't know there was a name for I thought everybody saw auras so here's how synesthesia worked for me I would look at the numbers zero through 10. And that was a big family. Number five was a boy not to be gender specific, but I'm going back to my childhood had masculine animus expression to me was like a boy I knew he I associate the number five with. So I was associating it with the gender attributes. I was associating it with the color blue and other personality traits that would come through. If you ask me,

well, what about the other five senses had number five smell? I would say like a clear, fresh air day, maybe like good laundry, you know, like when someone's shirt, their shirt smells different from yours. Number six, completely different personality. That'd be more like a babysitter. She's wearing some kind of perfume. I might not like it. She maybe has rules.

I don't feel comfortable with number six. Exactly. Not that they're not nice, but they're not my mother. They're a replacement for comfort and it's temporary and it feels temporary. You see what I mean? So you go into all the senses. You could even attribute a flavor. So if you're stream drawing, for example, and you see a line, shape or form and something

comes to you, you don't know why, but you think of mint, let's say, or you think of thorns or you think of sandpaper or you think of thorns, or you think of sandpaper, or you think of music of some kind, trust it and go with it and write it down and understand it later. Let it come, trust it, honor it. It's your intuitive knowing coming through, even if you don't know why. A lot of times we don't trust it and don't listen. And we go, well, I don't know why a lot of times we don't trust it and don't listen and we go well I don't know what that means and just cut it off because it's not logical or rational well in some way it is if we go there we just need to give ourselves more time to go there yeah of course which is why we named sense of soul sense of soul you know it was really connecting with the experiences that all of the different things using your senses, like, would you also say like something like discernment where you're able to like,

not only imagine it, visualize it, but then also experience and feel it like in your stomach, you know, like this is wrong. If this is right, is that similar to just talking about a different senses? I absolutely think so. I think discernment gets interesting. So we're physical, whether we're conscious or not at the time, which we're not, we're not always conscious. We're not conscious until we are. Usually we have hard lessons that make us go, Oh my God. Or like the dream that makes you go, Oh my God, I realized. So we're not, not to be hard on ourselves. We just aren't conscious until we are. For some reason, sometimes we're born knowing some things. I don't feel compelled to rob a bank, but someone else may. Maybe I did it in past lives. I don't know why. I don't know

why I am not going to do that, but someone else might. They may feel compelled just because they haven't learned. Actually, that's not a great idea. Or maybe in a few lifetimes, they may feel compelled just because they haven't learned. Actually, that's not a great idea. Or maybe in a few lifetimes, they had a blast doing it. Or ancestors, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's all a little bit mysterious and vast and, but discernment comes when we go, okay, I'm in this body. I'm in this five cents machine kind of with a personality with conditions I can't always control this is the other reason why I think our guides and angels and God are very patient with us and very loving and see us almost like five-year-old children because you know you

could be acting wrong for a long time because depressed let's say because you don't have the right gut biome because no one knows and they're giving you cream of wheat and it's not good for you. So, you know, we could have so many challenges based on just the machinery. It's very hard being a soul inhabiting a body, but as we, as we live and breathe through this thing, our soul has discernment via the personality the brain network central nervous system autonomic and whatever and the five senses inform us in this current body with all the conditions of parenting and other environmental things. And then we say what we like and what we don't like. Our preferences are hugely important because they are our ideals.

Our ideals are hugely important because ultimately our ideals, even when they get developed somewhat through our body this time around, or each time around, our ideals really are who we are as souls. So when you know what you love, your soul lights up. As simple as the thrill of eating our favorite food. Wow. My soul lights up. I taste it. It's coming through a five senses thing, but I still live up because it's my favorite thing. For me personally, when I'm around horses, I don't even think about anything that if I could ride a horse every day, that's the only time I'm really present. I'm not thinking of anything else. I'm just in love with the whole experience. My soul records for me during this lifetime with this body is lit up by chocolate. Let's say cherries, almonds, horses. You know, we start making a list. And when we make a list of our ideals, just simply what we love, you can feel the vibration and the resonance get you there you know what we're

more used to doing is making that soul list of ideals and it goes down the wrong road in other words we say things like i love horses i love how they smell i love brushing them i love being close to them i love how they're so majestic and how i feel when i'm writing them. And I'm never going to have one. Only rich people have them. Dang, that's so upsetting that I can't have a worse. And before you know it, you're not with your ideal anymore. You're with the lack thereof. So the real idea about writing a list like that, which is also explained in the way of the empath book, is to know that when you love it, it is yours. It is yours. So that addresses the ethereal plane. You know, it's real, even when it's still in the ethereal plane. The chair I'm sitting in was once in the ethereal plane until

someone figured out how to design it and get someone to produce it. And then people came together and made that happen. But it had to exist as an idea first. And then it was expressed here in this material form. So when we love something, it is in an ethereal energetic realm, but it can vibrationally begin to appear in our material reality in divine timing. It's not always my timing, but it was, it will come one way or another. If we don't keep resonating with the lack of it. Define timing. That's one of the things that I've learned to trust, right? So I kind of mourn, I grew up Catholic, so I mourned my religion. It was very difficult for me. I did.

You did? Yes. Okay. Well, and then I sort of have a new faith though, like recently, I mean, and actually I've reconnected with many, even of the stories of the Bible and stuff like that, but through another avenue, through another, you know, actually I've been reading a lot of the Gnostic Gospels and very curious about the Kabbalah. I'm seeing things from a different perspective, which I have said this, and this is kind of what I've been going through lately, is kind of like the allegory. There's a story or there's a painting. And within that, there is so much more, but it's from each of our vision, our perspective, our whatever lens we're looking at is what we see. And, but it's how it makes you feel, right? It's like what,

that is your truth. That's the only thing you can say that is a hundred percent. Is that how you experienced to be true? Yes. And I really relate to what you're saying. So growing up, my parents had converted because they were Protestant and stuff. So it was a very deeply authentic observance in Catholicism. There was a lot of love, a lot of real connection, but I always saw Jesus as Jewish and we had really close Jewish friends. And so my mother always wanted us to learn. There were some Jewish ancestry even that I found out mostly later, but you know, there was a menorah. I was in love with the menorah. I thought Jesus and all his friends and all his family were all

Jews and the others were Roman and stuff. The Romans killed him, you know, in the story. Somehow it just sort of, well, anyway, deeply, deeply in love with God and all that. But I felt misguided very early by some of what Catholicism was for me. That's not for everybody, but for me me I had actually had a very scary experience at a very young age and I had an annulment but I had been so observant to that it was a huge disappointment I felt like a failed bride at like 22 and that's when I realized something happened for me in Kabbalah in Jewish mysticism there is the Sabbath bride you're there's always a bride an eternal bride kind of within each of us and an aspect of God and I realized oh oh my goodness and I also at the time said, God, I was doing all the rules and I still got smacked so hard.

I obviously don't have a very mature understanding of you. So I want to start learning from ground up. That's when I started reading and I realized that Jewish mysticism wasn't different enough from whatever Jesus said. There were some things, but most of it was essentially the same, of course, because he was Jewish. And I thought, why are millions of people getting killed? This makes no sense. So that's what happened. And light went on. I was in love with studying it and then the path. And then I eventually through life's, you know, other experiences and whatever, decided to go back to study Torah and fell in love again.

And I knew I never stopped studying it, but then I formalized being Jewish. And for me, it's I just absolutely love it. And then shortly after that, found out, actually, my ancestors were Kabbalists. So, you know, the ancestors came through for for me so i don't think there's the separation should be as it is so i really want people to understand the love in it instead of being this you know it's just this oh i hate it i hate it you know what's interesting about that is that my journey happened very similar. And, you know, and I, you know, I have this very deep connection with this energy at the

divine feminine Sophia, as you mentioned, which is the spark in all of us. And I went through this as I was creating Mandy and I have been creating an Oracle deck and I was doing the art and my art was always leading me with synchronicities either matching my dreams or something I'd listened to or the cover of a book I'd be like I just drew this yeah or actual experiences like there was this one experience where I had my backyard with the chrome moon and then all of a sudden a white dove came over my head. I mean, science and synchronicities, which is you talk a lot about this in your book.

I as an empath, when you are aware and you are connected to the fact that you are an empath, that we all have this ability, and that you are just in this state of awareness and presence, there's so much synchronicity that will lead you. Yeah, you don't miss it. There are times when we're busy. I got to go to the store. I got to do that. I go, Oh my God, everyone needs me. I need to get these things done. And you may or may not notice the subtle signs and synchronicities that come, but you still can even when you're busy, but basically you have an orientation

to want that communication, to want to receive those gifts because they come like gifts. You can't deny again, like a dream, the message or the feeling you get when you're looking at a waxing moon and a white dove, a dove flies over. Right. So now there's a story within that. So deep. Yes. Yes. I relate to what you said about allegory because I think of it and I paint about this a lot. A lot of my paintings are fairytale themes because in a fairytale, they're archetypal. And the fairytale always has someone you relate to, the heroine, let's say. And that person goes through something tragic and emerges out okay. But it is a journey. The story, you know, isn't anything if it's all just sugary and nothing happens because our lives are full of travails. So the wonderful triumphant feeling you get from a fairy tale is it's all okay at the end. And there's a way through the dark and the shadows and the threats to the light. And so one of the ways for me in an ordinary day

is to be in an orientation where I want to receive signs and synchronicities and it's uncanny. You can't even believe it becomes so fun. Like you'll say the unusual word, like kaleidoscope, and then you turn on the TV, kaleidoscope, you never say that. And then someone just happens to say it, you know, things like that, that no one else has to care about. But you know, they're ahas. They're like, awesome. And I was going to ask you, do you have Native American ancestry? history me i have i don't have native but i have first nation canadian i'm from new orleans so my ancestors are the french creoles and i've said so much around you with that yeah i have a shaman a great shaman who is known as the apostate because of christianity yeah yeah that's so cool so you you feel them around me because actually just recently I was calling him on. Yeah. I feel them around you. Cool. Yeah. Awesome. One of the chapters of your book really drew me in. It was the ego's drive to win. I found that very interesting and how you broke down how empaths struggle with that. So I'd like to talk about that first. And then in a little bit, if you don't mind, I'd love for you to read the poem that you decided to put in by

Schultz. Oh, I got to read it at the book launch in Connecticut. I think I have it bookmarked. Yes, I do. Because that is, I mean, it's my favorite thing in the book. But yeah, the thing about ego, the ego is a struggle for all of us, all humans. Part of it is natural because we're animals. We are born to survive and thrive. And the ego helps us survive and thrive. We can't escape it in this world. We are, if you're human and you didn't have that drive, you would die. I mean, you just are born with it. It's got a

usefulness. And in fact, I think an even greater usefulness, and I'm pretty sure I mentioned it in the book, the ego sets us up for our best lessons, because we have ambition. Some of this is developmental, like the Kabbalists originally would say, you can study Kabbalah. Okay. Originally it would be, you have to be male, you have to be observant and you have to be 40 and up. And the reason why I think is that when you're 40, a lot of the push that ego has spent time doing to strive starts to relax and you can be more open but let's face it when you're

in our system as it is let's say you're coming out of high school well the whole time you're trying to get an idea of yourself you just want to be accepted it's very painful in junior high let's say especially if you have some self-esteem issues, everyone does to some degree. Then high school, painful also. You want to be accepted. You want to be valid. Everyone wants the kiss of acceptance. Then you have to go make it. You have to survive.

You have to make your way. So your ego is going to help you. What do you want to do? How am I going to get it? I have to do it to survive. No one's going to take care of me for me. Now I'm an adult, a young adult. I have to do it to survive. No one's going to take care of me for me. Now I'm an adult, a young adult. I have to go make it happen. The ego is there to help us do that.

So you might be really driven. There's nothing wrong with it. Where it gets sad and tragic is when we believe it to be real. It's real in that money, I can buy things with money, I can buy food. But what isn't real is if I think my self-worth is based on what I've achieved. That's where it gets tragic, because that can be taken away in one moment. Applause, admiration, money, things, all that can be taken away. If our self-worth is really based and rooted in that, then there's a setup. So the ego serves us also. Sometimes the ego gets us to go do things where we get smacked so hard in the process, but we learned our spirit learned, right? You know, I think the reason it captivated me is because, you know, the chapter very much states that this is something that

empaths struggle with the ego driving to win that unresolved suffering and their life accumulates, then it's going to be very painful. And you talk about how empaths use it to drive them and to turn that pain into purpose, which is what Shannon, I always talk about. So I'm just curious, you know, other people that maybe aren't empaths, it made me kind of stop and think about them because what do they do then with their unresolved pain? They don't take that pain and turn it into purpose. Oh my gosh. Like I feel sad for them because I'm an empath. Yeah. Well, one thing I try not to do is, I mean, even though the book is addressing, it's a book for empaths, especially people who feel supremely sensitive and therefore somewhat other their whole entire lives, or if somewhere along the way they developed a keen sensitivity that sets

them in their experience, sets them apart from the conventional group or whatever. However, I would say we're all empaths. We're all empaths. We're somewhere on a gray scale. I state that very early in the book. Cause I don't really want it to be about, well, who's an empath and who isn't because that's not really empathic to do that. It's a little judgy. So I would say more, we all want people to understand how we feel. If someone is only an empath in that, they know how it hurts when no one understands how they feel. That's something. And then we are, you can have someone actually live a life of doing

service that, that is empathic, though they're the meanest person that you know, but when they do surgery, they fix someone's life. So I can't really judge therein, but I would say, if you feel empathic, you've noticed a struggle between really deep, sensitive orientation toward others and as it gets processed through the self and then what the ego urges. You may feel it as a conflict so bad you can't, you're not comfortable with it. Whereas you might see other people are completely comfortable and enjoying their ego and whatever. I can't get in their heads. I can only say for empathic people that drive to demolish the enemy or to vanquish everyone and be domineering above others.

And every little tiny interaction doesn't feel good, does it? No. And I think that you bring up something that I experienced. And if I was being very raw, I found myself sitting in a very judgy state because what happened was when I learned about what being an empath was, my ego immediately tried to turn it to where I wanted everyone to understand what an empath was so that they could understand me instead of me learning about myself. I looked at it as a way to use it to strengthen my relationships or to make someone see me for who I really was or to try to get

validation from others. And it's truly there so that I could learn to understand myself and learn how to protect myself and learn how to have empathy for people that aren't empaths. Or to understand that they don't present as far as I can tell as empaths, but who knows in their way, in their time, I would still honor them as empathic on some level. And the urge to have others validate us or understand us is totally normal, though. I mean, that's a human inclination. You weren't wrong to want that. The biggest, hardest life lesson, I think, for me would be to actually arrive at the point where you go inward to for validation between you and God to the higher source. What else is there once you've done that? So let's look at souls for a minute. Let's

say a soul loved me so much before we were born that we got we met with all our soul guide counselors at the big table with our souls girls open and another soul loved me so much they said for my highest hardest lesson they would be born as the biggest ego on the planet or the biggest narcissist or the biggest you name it simply to be in that role which would cause them suffering for me there is there is that. So that's why I really don't mean for this book to be about who's empathic and who isn't. We won't get anywhere good. That doesn't feel good to me. Because I'm sure there's such a great mystery behind all the ways in which we present, which can be illusory and can be at the service of others

in ways that we just don't know. We can't really see the whole total mosaic of each person we encounter. We only see them through our own perception. We may perceive that person's not very empathic. That person is definitely toxic for me. It's really more about the situations that you get into with people. So try not to judge people, but more so I get to discern which situations are toxic for me and which are not and put myself more in the situations that serve me better according to what feels right for me. That way I don't feel like I'm judging or labeling. Yes.

Thank you for that. I also wanted to bring up because I felt it was appropriate and I know it's been really heavy on Shanna's heart lately is the chapter on understanding the young empaths, because you know, you say at the beginning, education is a privilege and there's a lot to be said for getting with a program yet empathetic children must try to fulfill the expectations of others and of the system while being hyper aware of a lot of unspoken but strongly felt impressions. And I mean, the whole thing I kept thinking about her sweet daughter, Kansley, she's very empathetic, and she's struggling with keeping up with the system

and how they have a lot going on in their head. And then teachers look at them as being shy or introverted or not keeping up with the rest of the children. As parents, how do we help our children that we know are just very empathetic and creative and have these different personalities? Yeah, it's a big one. And a whole book could be devoted to just that. And there may be some out there. Yeah, there may be some. So what I would say is both that kid, the daydreamer, and the one seeing the teacher's aura, which I've said 100 times, was way more compelling and beautiful than whatever they were talking about. Just looking at them and the negative space, the space between that, that the person and the other people, the emotions of the people around me, that resting right here while you're supposed to be concentrating on something you mainly don't even care about or seeing numbers as emotive. They are people, their

personality, they're full of emotion. What do you want me to do with four plus seven? What? What? I'm looking at who number four is and who number seven, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Looking at the way the wind is blowing through the trees outside and the leaves are turning silver. Every child has a right to be able to say, to express how it is they're perceiving what's going on around them, but no one usually has the time to know what that is. Parents, as the ones ultimately responsible for the child's education, can be the ones to say and to open the conversation, what do you feel when you're in school? What do you think? Taking the time to have the child be able to express what they think, feel, see, notice. I was one of seven, so it wasn't like my mother had a chance. Plus, in the era when

I was in school, the law wasn't changed yet. The parents had no right to go see even the school records. Teachers could write very nasty things. What a dork. They could write horrible things about kids that would get passed on that parents couldn't see until people changed that law and said, no, parents have a right. It's their child. Today, there's even some controversy about what schools can know versus what parents can know. It is ultimately up to the parent to have that communication and to steer the education of the child. So this is a huge topic. So one, I would say finding any way, like when you describe drawing with your daughter, any way to understand the perception and learning style of the child, the feelings the child has that they

can't give verbiage to yet. They don't know how to talk about, help them be able to. I'm a mom. I have two sons. Who knows what I missed? Who knows what I'm, I'm not acting like I'm perfect, but I know the ideal is to try to get the conversation, to be aware, to be involved, to be aware, to really get in there. So there's that. And my hardest lesson, but I learned it finally, it was a eureka moment, was this is a mantra. If I had one, this is it. Do not let anything but love come between you and your child. All right.

Do you know what wants to come between you and your child? Fear, anxiety, freak out, all of it, all the shadow emotions want to get in there. If there's only love between you and your child, there's nothing to fear. And you are the one to be in the only one in your unique role to be the protector, to be the guide, to be the co-creator of that child's experience as best you can. The other thing I would say is to understand the system is only a system. It's a structure. Usually systems are flawed, some way more than others. Systems at this point in our time, which is shifting is very spiritual are being broken down why would i want my kid to have to live up to a system if they do fine but i don't want them to be given the

impression that the system is somehow god and they're falling short or whatever i talk to my kids just the way my parents talk to me. Pretty much it's the system. It's a thing. It doesn't own you. It's not God. It's full of flawed people. There will be some beautiful experiences. Find what you can that is beautiful.

Otherwise, it and the job and the career and the education are not it. They're a game to a degree. They're a thing that you have to do, but they don't own you. They don't define you. They don't define your worth, et cetera. I think where we get lost is we think, oh my God, get with the program. Oh my God, you got to be number one. Oh my God, you know, the parents are scared that their kid won't be valid. Again, it's looking externally for the validation. And there are gradations in there. You might be a little that way

and a little the other way and a little that way and whatever. And sometimes people start their own school or they find their own way or they homeschool. There are alternatives. I thought all the stuff that's happening now would happen when mine were little and I was ready for it.

And it didn't quite happen. mine were little and I was ready for it and it didn't quite happen but the last thing I really wanted was for my attitude to think that the system was in control of us while you guys were talking actually it was just this morning I had a thought Kinsley is so empathetic and she always has been since she was very little she's very artistic she's seen auras she's the auras she sees auras and this always has been since she was very little she's very artistic she's seen auras she's the auras she sees auras and this is like the thing she's very connected to animals and nature and all this stuff but because it is so intense it has caused a lot of issues socially and at school and you know what with the conditions and the ego really kicking in at 10 years old

um i can see that she's really trying to shut them down she's actually going against herself and you can see the almost push like i can almost visualize like her soul being pushed back so that she can keep her composure about stuff instead of feeling. Don't survive the day, right? That's what she's doing. She's in fight or flight. But you know what? It's very cold.

It's very cold. And I can see how that if she continued to do this, she would almost seem like a narcissist. I can see how even a narcissist, maybe who had started out very raw, you know, who had maybe said, push it down, push it down, push it down. And then they grow up not supported in letting, you know, their emotions be authentic and real that they turn into, you know, emotionless. I think, okay. So a couple of things, one is a narcissist usually develops through being greatly emotionally neglected while also made an ornament of some kind for the parent. Yeah. And it's usually clinically, I think it's been established often. It's the bond that's the

most important and it's the mother usually, but I'm not sure, but that's, so what happens is not that the little innocent child shoves its soul away. It's that the child suffers greatly because it has to be an ornament has to be perfect in the way the parent wants it. So here's why I was going to distinguish between what happens when a narcissist is in development, it's usually the closest bond that gives the sense of worth or not and acknowledges the sense of emotional experience the child has or not. So there's neglect and there's great pain. Now we get into another territory, which is ask any tween teen a question they're narcissistic maybe we're too much on labels they're self-centered we are all developmentally self-centered at that age the thing is she has you she's gonna yeah okay first of all let's say that she's an extremely old soul a miracle she is she knows

exactly why she came well she knows why she came and she knows what her role is. Meanwhile, you're in the most unique relationship with her as her main guide. And you're going to continue the conversation and mainly energetically, just simply absolutely love her unconditionally and be present through all the crazy ups and downs of tweendom and teendom. Yeah. Knowing that she does know what her role is ultimately, but I, you know what, I would, I don't really know how to address what all is happening. I've raised my kids. Now it's different. All of the energy of the world and in COVID, the wars, Mandy and I have kids from in their mid twenties, all the way to, you know, Mandy has a seven year old, I have 10 year old. But so we've seen the generational, you know, Mandy has a seven year old, I have 10 year old, but so we've seen the generational, you know, difference in what's happening in this COVID you know, been very stressful kids. And so I understand, you know, I take that into consideration.

Some of it, a Cherokee mentor I had said, this is going back years ago, but she said, there are hardcore things they have to get adapted to. So there's that too. It's sort of bootcamp. I mean, life is bootcamp. This phase is bootcamp. These old souls came through. You could tell the minute they're born, they're looking at it.

They're not at all like the babies that I babysat. I can tell she's older than me. I'm with you in your unique role in ways I don't know because of the era you're raising her. And I didn't raise daughters too on top of that I'm with you in praying for her soul to be fulfilled and to get through all the trials and for you to put her where you think is best for her and we don't have to bow down to the system there are alternative ways she's more mathematical than she is mathematical I love that now that's your book on it mathematical

I want you to do that well and at the end of your book you talk about like empaths in the world today and I think that you know sharing the struggle with Shanna's daughter is we're seeing it happening a lot and so I think that your book and your work is so important, because it is a way to help them to learn to protect themselves and to understand themselves. And that's where it starts. I hope so. Should we end with that beautiful poem? Please. Okay. The most beautiful, spiritual, empathic rabbi, Rabbi Evan Schultz. The title is this, a poem using book titles in my library, number one. In every generation, in every tongue,

a time to speak, like dreamers stepping forward, restoring hope, a passion for truth, shared dreams, American values, religious voices, political tribes, tough choices, broken tablets. You're more powerful than you think to bless the space between us. That wraps it up, doesn't it? That's beautiful. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on. Well, thank you so much. I'm so delighted. I love that you two have such synergy and it's such a gift for me. Thank you for having me. I would like to add to our listeners that I would highly recommend this book. It's a very easy read, which is very important when you're talking about something so confusing. Sometimes like you really did a great job breaking it down to where like, I feel like you could almost when you're having like one of

those days where you're like, okay, I just need a little bit of tip today. I mean, you go from deja vu to past life regressions to near death experiences to the Claire's. I mean, it's just great. It's got like, it's basically what Shannon and I talked about for the first year of our podcast and this amazing little book. Thank you so much. You know what? My prayer when I did it was just let it come through and come out. And I was quarantined.

I was alone. So it was like, and I wanted to serve. I wanted to help. But why else do it? If it doesn't help people, why else do it? You talked about so many things yet kept it very tangible for someone to be able to grasp it and implement it and understand it. So thank you. Tell people the name of your book and where they can get it. It is The Way of the Empath, How Compassion, Empathy, and Intuition Can Heal Your World. And people can find me that way. You can get on, on Amazon or any bookstore. Maybe you have a favorite local

bookstore you want to support. You know, you can ask them to carry it or have them order it for you. And you can find me at elaineclayton.com and I'm on Instagram and I'm on Facebook. Yeah. I'm so happy to, for anyone to reach out to me. You know, the three things at the top of your book just remind me so much of our journey. And Shanna always talks about these three. They really stuck out. Free yourself. Empower yourself. Protect yourself.

Amen to that. And now it's time for Break That Shit Down. Yeah. And now it's time for break that shit down. Yeah, I think that for yourself, empower yourself, protect yourself is at the core. Also love. It's all about consciousness. And like I said earlier, we're not conscious till we are. So give yourself a break. We're here to learn.

We're in a life of light and shadow. There's a lot of pain in it. But the point of all the pain really is to learn to love so it does start with loving the self we love ourselves more when we learn how to love others any small gesture you do in the day that is kindness toward another has more impact than we'd ever know. Little gestures of kindness make the world go around and being creative in some kind of like stream drawing because it's so immediate or anything else you love to do that you would look forward to that is a creative act that can get

you into a good feeling place. That is very powerful. That's your passion. Yeah, I love it. Thank you so much. It's been such so much. Thank you so much for coming on Sense of Soul. And thank you for putting this book out. You're so cool. I love both of you. I feel so enriched. That's how I feel too right now. So thank you. Thanks for being with us today. We hope you will come back next week. If you like what you hear, don't forget to rate, like, and subscribe. Thank you. We rise to lift you up.

Thanks for listening.