Sense of Soul - The Wild Unknown with Kim Krans

Episode Date: November 22, 2021

Today we have a special episode, this guest is very near and dear to Mande and Shanna as her work has played a big part in their journey. Sense of Soul Podcast welcomed the amazing visionary artist Kim Krans, best selling author, and creator of, The New York Times bestseller “The Wild Unknown Tarot.” Kim received her BFA in drawing at Cooper Union in NYC, MFA in mixed media at Hunter College, and an MA in depth psychology and creativity at Pacifica Graduate Institute in California. Her seeker's heart has brought her to study in-depth practices of yoga and shamanism in India, Africa, Europe, and the UK. Kim teaches events and workshops that activate the forces of creativity and radical transformation through art, meditation, mysticism, and movement.  Learn more about Kim Krans at her website. www.kimkrans.com Hurry a pick up her new items now available, they will make the perfect Christmas presents!! Kim’s New Products Have Launched!!   • The Wild Unknown Pocket Tarot Perfect for the tarot and oracle card lovers in your life, TWU Pocket Tarot is a compact, portable version of Kim's bestselling tarot deck featuring her lush four-color illustrations. This set is great for travelling or bringing unique entertainment to parties or other gatherings!   • The Wild Unknown Notes This gorgeous stationary set features 16 different hand-drawn card designs with blank interiors for any occasion (and envelopes are included). These are ideal for sending unique holiday cards and thank-you notes!  • The Wild Unknown Notebook Collection Another great gift for tarot or oracle practitioners, this set of beautiful notebooks features popular mystical artwork from TWU deck and gold foil stamping. Each set contains two notebooks with blank pages for journaling, note-taking, drawing, etc. This is a great gift for getting organized in the New Year!  Of course a must have is “The Wild Unknown Tarot Deck” via her online website The Wild Unknown. The Wild Unknown –https://www.thewildunknown.com Follow her journey: Kim Krans Instagram The Wild Unknown Instagram We figured of Shanna’s mystery song… If I Ruled The World (Imagine That)" by Nas Listen to Nas: https://Nas.lnk.to/listenYD Don’t forget to rate, follow and leave us a comment! Please go check out our Sense of Soul’s merch and workshops including Shanna’s CLEAR ancestry workshop and learn more about us @ www.mysenseofsoul.com! Exclusively NOW on Sense of Soul Patreon  is the 777 Chakra Journey, 7 weeks 7 Chakras, beginning this week with the Root Chakra and end at the end of 2021! Listen to Shanna’s mini-series about her ancestral journey Untangled Roots and Mande’s mini series is beginning! https://www.patreon.com/senseofsoul

Welcome to the Sense of Soul podcast. We are your hosts, Shanna and Mandy. Grab your coffee, open your mind, heart and soul. It's time to awaken. Hello, listeners. Oh my gosh, do we have an amazing episode for you. Today, Shanna and I are beyond humbled and excited to have on the Kim Kranz. Her deck, the Wild Unknown Tarot, is probably one of Shanna and I's favorite. We use it all the time and it has become a huge part of our journey. We just absolutely love her creativity. We love everything that she stands for. I am so excited to talk to her about her creative process and how her art has evolved and the new things she has coming up. Kim, thank you so much for

taking time to come and talk to Shanna and I. It is an absolute true honor. Thank you and welcome. Thanks for having me. Oh, you're such an honor. I'd say you are definitely my go-to deck. So I'm super excited. I just know how many times I've read things that you've wrote. And then I thought, wow, she must be freaking an amazing soul. I was just super excited to meet you because I know you're going to be as beautiful as your decks are. Thank you. Thanks so much. I feel like your deck brought energy into the cards for me, where before it was just a tarot deck that I was working with. It's interesting. I hear that a lot, that Wild Unknown Tarot is a bit of a gateway deck. I think it is commonly the first deck for a lot of people. So I'm honored that it's that.

It wasn't my vision, but it ended up, I think, being an easy entry point for people to get into the concepts of the cards. Yeah, I will have to say that it was also my first deck and I was mesmerized by the art. It drew me in and I've actually struggled going to any other decks because of that. I feel very connected to it. I find also that when I'm using your deck, the colors that are on the cards speak volumes about even the chakra system to me and align with what the card is saying and the message behind it, which was really cool.

And then also the ABC dream book is absolutely my daughter's favorite. It's how she learned her ABCs. I like that they're all colorful and like in the background, all of these are kind of rainbow, the rainbow. Like I feel like whenever I see rainbows I feel they mean like somebody's crying and that she loves birds a lot they're worth it I mean she wanted to come on to meet you but she truly she learned her ABCs through this book we bought it to put on our boutique truck she picked it out absolutely loves it So thank you for that. Cool. The kids books are kind of like the step sister of all of the products or like the forgotten one. But when I hear that they're out circulating and families are responding to them, it warms my heart so much. And there's a couple of board books that are

coming out next year that I had self-published, but they'll be in wider distribution availability next year. So I'm so happy to hear that. I saw that. I'm like, man, I want to order this. And it was like, oh, it's not going to be out till next year. Shoot. My nine-year-old is an artist. I mean, hands down was born this way. And it's what she does like all day. Like she doesn't want to do her homework. And I'm just like, you need to stop drawing. You need to do your math. She's like, screw math. Unless I can draw it, which she does. But she and I have been doing this one book. I would love your version of this book. It's a parent and child art book. So every day we do a page together and it's like one side's done with the, for the child and one's for the adult. My side is like stick figures, stupid

and hers is all intricate and amazing, but it's like draw your emotion, you know, draw something you like about yourself, you know know just real positive and beautiful it's so cool that you do that what a cool practice oh it has been amazing because you know what I have a lot of creativity she's got a lot of art so it's someplace that we can actually bond and just spend you know even if it's only 30 minutes together and to look back upon and I think it's beautiful but I think that kids need more stuff like that. We've been talking about this since we started on our journey. Like they're the ones who need to know this stuff because they're our future. Yeah. True. It's so true.

Do you have kids? I don't know. Okay. You speak to them. I love it. True. Yeah. I mean, you're literally under the comforter in my hands nightly with me and my daughter. So yeah, that must feel so cool for you to know that it's circulating around and that these little ones are literally learning their ABCs this way. So cool. Thank you for reminding me. Speaking of children, I really enjoyed seeing the photographs on your website of yourself when you were young. Who are you as a little girl? Well, it's a question I almost like to slip away from because I so often love like when the work appears without

me in a sense I think that's one of the ways that the tarot has done well it's almost like when I'm doing my best work I feel like I disappear and these other magical images come up and these words and things that I don't even feel sometimes like I've written. So I can go into my biography. It's a good story of like small town girl, farm town in rural Michigan and not much culture around there. And I started to draw and then got a scholarship to an art school when I was 14 and left home. I lived at a boarding art school and studied drawing every day with my teacher, and I worked with her for three years. And then I just kept drawing and drawing and writing,

and I was very blessed with scholarships and financial aid when I was a kid. I came from a very hardworking family, and we didn't have the means to even know about art schools across the country, let alone pay for them. So my teachers in high school let me know about some schools in New York and I applied to Cooper Union, which is a full tuition school. And I got in and came to the city and continued to draw. And that was how I made my way. I thought my path was going to be in the New York art world, like showing in galleries, which I did from college to through grad school, my mid-20s. And then that kind of

flopped. It petered out in a way that was really painful, actually. Then I had like no money, no projects, no gallery, no idea of what to do. And I moved to Philadelphia and moved into a renovated church. And that's where I drew the tarot deck and then everything shifted. So that's the long, long and short of the, of the bio. I can't believe that at 14, you left home to pursue art. So it's just been, it kind of like my daughter's just been in with within you forever. Yeah, it has been. I actually, I saw a photo. My mom sent me this, this photo the other day of like, uh, when I was in third grade, I, I loved drawing contests when I was a kid, I was obsessed with them. And I entered like a forest fire prevention competition when I was in

third grade and my drawing got selected as the winner in the state of Michigan so they made it into billboards all over the state and my mom like drove me around and and had me pose in front of the billboards and this is like late 80s so I have like this radical outfit on and like fluorescent colors and blonde hair what's really wild is that it's a picture of an owl on a branch with like a tree line below. It basically looks like a less advanced cover of like one, two, three dream with the owl and the, and the tree branch. And I basically feel like I've been drawing that same drawing for 35 years now. Have you ever like tapped in to see why the owls always have been there? The night time is such a creative time, such a mysterious time, such a sacred time. And I think,

you know, just the image of the owl being eyes open at night and that can see all around, not to mention its call, its beautiful sound. So I think it's just one of the more moving images that nature gives us. For me, it's just like so beautiful. They're mesmerizing. Do you think there was some spirit in there? Was there anything going on as far as that church energy with that deck? Oh my God, there was a lot of church energy going on with that deck. Since you ask, I'll tell the story of the church. It had beautiful stained glass windows, like vaulted ceilings, opaque. The windows were kind of like those shower doors that you can't see out of, you know, you can't see details. And I went to a psychiatrist at that time because I was like, I feel depressed.

I just left New York, super confused, drawing this deck. I don't know what's going on. I was doing a lot of yoga, started with mantra meditation. I really felt like the contrasts in my life were getting stronger. Like the lights were getting lighter, but the darks felt like they were getting darker. So I go to this therapist and she's blind. I didn't know going into the session. And it was such an interesting session, just the way that she responded to me, the way that I felt speaking with her because she didn't have the visuals that one typically would in a session like that. And I told her, you know, I'm living in this church. I feel depressed. And she said, wait a second, like, what can you see out the windows? And I said, oh, they're beautiful stained glass.

You know, it's amazing. And she said, can you see if it's raining? Can you see if a tree branch? Can you see if a bird lands on a tree branch? Can you see the horizon line? And I said, no. And so we talked, you know, throughout the session. And at the end, she said, I rarely tell people something this strong at the end of a very first session, but churches are not meant for living in. They're meant to transport us from this plane. They're meant for worship and praise and to be exalted in a sense. And so she was like, you need to move immediately because you're experiencing being disoriented by not being able to see yourself on earth through the windows when you look outside. And she said, you're not getting enough light, finish your project, move out of the church. And she closed with, it's my job to live in the dark, not yours.

Oh my God. That is so deep. I felt just completely undone. Oh God. Were you scared? I was kind of scared. I was a little bit spooked and she was so powerful and calm and she just had such an interesting like presence about her. And I saw her throughout that year when I was making the deck. I didn't live in the church for that long, but it was the vessel in which the deck came to be. I mean, from like an alchemy point of view, it's a really interesting kind of compressive chamber in which to like a cauldron in which to make something and completely unique and definitely had its downside for the day-to-day life. But in terms of like getting me into a different headspace as churches are architecturally designed to do, it worked in a sense. Yeah, it makes sense. And what she said is so true. Churches are built for worship and to move us and transport us.

Wow. Have you ever thought about going into a local church and be like, can I rent out your space for a week while I work on my new deck? I'm really interested in spaces and the effect they have on art. I draw in hotels a lot now. I mean, hotels are nothing compared to a church, but they kind of have this transient quality to them. You can kind of drift into a cool headspace. So I always take my sketchbooks with me. And sometimes I just go to a hotel and draw for the weekend. It's super weird, but I mean, you just need a

temporary place to dwell, to kind of go inside and shut of centralizing energy. When you apply that to an art studio, it gets really, really fascinating. Like what are the drawings I would make inside a church compared to inside a temple in India compared to, you know, at a site of devastation that's under restoration. You know, I've done projects where I've gone to a concentration camp. I did a project on Anne Frank for my most recent thesis project. And I went to the concentration camp where she died. It's a beautiful memorial site at this point, but I went is the quality of the energy here and is there anything that wants to be seen through drawing or writing that this space needs to express yeah wow yeah so can you talk about the wild unknown uh the wild unknown as a phrase comes from a Bob Dylan song and it was always very enchanting to me and I could never figure it out what the phrase meant you know oh yeah one of those um so I I ended up using it as the

kind of moniker for my work when I first started self-publishing. And then, you know, time after time, it kind of humbles me in that it keeps asking me to be present to the unknown and the mystery and the presence that's there, whether it be darkness or light or, you know, tension or love or acceptance, forgiveness, it's all so mysterious and moving. So it, the name constantly asks me to be present with what is new and unknown. And once it's known, it goes into our repertoire, but then we moved to a new kind of growth edge and there's always more to know. Wow. That reminds me of Sean Johnson's new album of mystery, similar reason. But I think that that's what's amazing right now is we're so expansive, right?

You know, we're outside of that box and outside of that box right now is unknown and is mystery. And it's for you to just like, there's so much adventure and exploration out there right now, which is why Mandy and I do what we do because we didn't have, I don't know what was going on when we first started on this journey. She should have named her podcast out of the box, outside the box. We talk about it so much, but really conditioned, you know, from the generations before. So it is that unknown and it can be a wild ride. I love the name of it. I relate to that.

I'm 41 this year and I feel that I feel the patterning, which is the known in myself. And then I get glimpses of a new potential, which is the unknown. It has to be so much courage to keep moving towards the unknown, especially with the messages around how we're supposed to have everything figured out. And, you know, whether you're an artist or entrepreneur or musician or whatever, it's like, as if we're supposed to have the complete package totally set and constructed and as if it's fixed, you know? Yeah, absolutely. And I think going back to what Shanna said earlier, we find that a large part of our listeners is the younger generations. These humans that are in their twenties are, seem a little more evolved and more open-minded and really kind of born into the unknown to start.

And so it's exciting. It's really cool to talk to that generation and the generations below them. I know that Shanna and I are asked to use your deck a lot with that age group. They are so interested. I mean, Shanna and I will have a group of like 10 to 15 teenagers that instead of going out partying, we'll come over onto our house on a Friday night to break out your deck because they want to know more and it's helping them realize that they're not weird and they're not strange and there there's nothing wrong with them and that they're gifted. And it's so cool that through your deck, you can see like this light in their eyes because a lot of, um, you know, empaths or a lot of them are really artsy. Um, a lot of them express themselves differently through their clothes and

what they wear and so they're they've been kind of told that they're weird or that their energy's off or that they're adhd but really you're you're deck for me and i don't know how i got to this conversation right now but it opens up this place with that generation where they they look at me like with hope it's so cool through your art and the messages and your deck would you not agree shanna yeah i was gonna say just a week ago my daughter had been offered a promotion and she didn't know she's 22 she's she's in her comfort zone she's um, she's like, Mom, can you, can you read my cards? Let's just see what the cards are saying right now. And I said, sure, what deck do you want me to use? And she's like, come on. She's like, Mom, the only one that ever

tells me really is the Wild Under Deck. And I'm like, okay, it's amazing. And I know that it has something to do with my guides coming in and utilizing your divine tool that you passively alchemized. Love it. But yeah, yeah, it's the go-to dad. Well, I think this all goes back to the phrase I think Mandy used at the beginning of the conversation. It was like being mesmerized by art and art has such a powerful

way of like getting us out of our narrative and into the imagination and we can like drop into this other space and it's so expansive and open and somehow all the problems we thought we had to fix like in this other world they start to take on like a different quality and being able to sense like that there's purpose behind the difficulties and that there's messages kind of everywhere and that the world is alive and I like also this idea that the younger generations have a different orientation at more expansiveness. I think of it like if we're on a grid, say my brain is kind of like a box, like a rectangle. I feel like the younger generations are more, they're shifted. They're more like a hexagram where things start to interlock like a beehive, where they can integrate with and collaborate

with rather than kind of the hierarchy of the box. And I have a deck coming out in the spring, an alchemy deck, and the cards are hexagram shaped like that for this reason so that they start to fit together and touch and interlock in a way that can then inform the meaning of the reading. And it mimics that of a beehive and some other patterns in nature that have like incredible intelligence. And it goes from this idea that like each one of us has to be this epic hero, like who figures out everything to orienting around community and togetherness and connection and compassion rather than this idea that you have to hold all the pressure yourself and figure everything out and achieve all the dreams you know without anyone's help I say that as a person who's relentlessly kind of like a lone wolf in a lot of ways.

And I'm just getting to the point in my life now where that's not the model I want to use anymore. I want to be in the hive with all the buzzing bees around me and have those people be like super nourishing and radiant, making some kind of honey that is healing. Yeah. That Gen Z, we, they believe in raising their voices and fighting for what they believe in and togetherness and, you know, having equal rights and being kind to each other. And they speak up about it because I believe all those things too. And through this podcast, we've been able to speak up about it, but really our gen, my generation really didn't speak up. So it's, it's hopeful. And I think that tools like what you're creating is that's being utilized by these

generations is exactly what they need because they don't have the structure because they come from a generation that's closed up. Yeah. Think about the 60s. In the 60s, it was like love and peace and they were smoking a lot of marijuana. Now you got marijuana legalized in most states. So they're all peace and love again. Maybe the love's coming from the marijuana. That's so funny.

Do you know that song, I ruled the world? You know, at the beginning of it, it says something like, like a man smoking weed with the cops, like walking by or something like that. But it was like his dream. Like maybe that would happen one day. Yeah. I was listening to that just this morning. I'm like, look at that. Who sings that? Oh, God. You know which one I'm talking about, right? Yes. Is it Kanye?

No. Heck no, girl. Okay, wait. Who is it? If I was the world. Imagine that. I was going to say Tears for Fears. No, no, no. It's a rap. I must be singing really off. Well, you sound beautiful to me, but that's because you've been my best friend for so long. But you know what I'm talking about? But he was singing a song. It's almost like, you know,

he was predicting what he wanted to see in the future. Like, why are we putting people in jail for lifetimes over weed? Imagine smoking weed in the street without cops harassing. Oh my gosh, that's hilarious. Okay, well, we'll have to figure it out i i don't know this song i was feeling an atlantis more set vibe when you were singing and i was

totally thinking something from the early 90s so i don't know i don't know okay hold on talk about perspective that's hilarious so i got tears for fears she got atlantis more set and you're talking about kanye west like what the heck I don't know I must have been saying it really bad not either tears for fears Kim I wanted I wanted to tell you that I read something that you wrote about it was a suggestion and I really liked it it was about how starting out I could use my non-dominant hand if I wanted to do some art and just kind of let that spirit, that emotion flow through, which would be for me, my left hand. You described it in such beautiful words and why you suggested that. Can you talk

about that for a minute? I love this question. Yes. Well, you could think a really simple way to practice with the known and the unknown would be with your two hands. The dominant hand, typically the right hand, would be your known hand. You know what's going to happen. You put a pen in your hand, you know what the letters will look like for the most part. The left hand is the unknown. So even trying to draw your name is going to be more complex. So a really easy way to practice engaging with the mystery and intuition and to the uncontrollable, the uncontrolled. You know, we talk about everyone wants more intuition. Everyone wants more insight. The thing is, it's not it's not a controlled force. We don't

get to say what the intuition is going to be, what the hit is. So we have to be brave enough to include that which we cannot control. And the non-dominant hand is a great example of engaging with lack of control. It feels so bad to write. You're like, what the hell? I can't even make a letter B or a letter X, you know? But really it's the brain is starting to trust that it's okay. It's okay if stuff looks messy. It's okay if it's confusing. And we're just working on something new right now. we're in a new territory that allows a kind of new approach to come in and it is definitely more related to like the lunar the unknown the mystery you can you know I use my left hand when I pull cards out of a jar I use

I use my left hand for most things if I want to bypass the intellect and go to the creative side of myself. That's awesome. That is so cool. How long did it take you to, you know, to do your wild unknown, the original deck? I did research for a while. And then when I sit down to draw the decks, they're usually six months to a year of drawing and revising and writing. And I always think going into the project, oh, this is going to be a quick one. I know what I'm doing. But again, as soon as I start, I'm like, oh, wait, I have no idea how this is going to

turn out. And then almost every time I complete a deck, I finish the last card and I'm like, okay, I finally know how to do this project. I should start over. And thankfully, I don't have the time to start over. There is something great about deadlines in that way. But yeah, when I finished the alchemy deck, just, we just sent it to the printer, you know, last month.

And I thought like, like okay now I know what this deck should be like and it's okay I don't get to redo it yeah you're like oh shit I know so we've been working on our deck for gosh since I don't know like maybe like end of spring or springtime and I do the same thing because I feel like in some way like I'm a little bit of a perfectionist in some way or you know what else happens to me is that I have like this vision of something and then I'm like oh no like that that's wrong this card is completely wrong I this is what I. And then I'm like, Oh no, like that, that's wrong. This card is completely wrong. I, this is what I vision. So now I have to do it all over. My son's tried to help me because he's an artist. And I'm telling you, this kid's no better than I,

but he's like, you have all of them in one folder. He's like, mom, start transferring over to a new folder, the ones that you are a hundred percent in love with. And so that way, when you're looking at the folder, you're not looking at all of the ones that you've already done. Like you're only looking at, I mean, these kids are so great, right? I mean, I have ADHD for sure. So I struggle. And so he's like, you need, you're just, you're overwhelming yourself by looking at all of them. And we're just creating a like Oracle deck for like sense of soul, like just everything that Mandy and I have gone through over the years and what we've talked about here on this podcast and what we're still learning. But for me, it's not just art, you know, it's what the card's meaning is I want like when you're reading it for you to see

almost like an entire story you know in each card you bring up so many uh fascinating points about art making overwhelm is so real it's just anything one can do to like help themselves not be overwhelmed is really great but also making a deck a tarot deck or oracle deck it is in and of itself an initiatory experience and by that I mean to say like working with those concepts working with the images and pairing them and getting deep into the process will do its work on the psyche and the life of the maker. So it's a living thing. It can't be static where you're like, I'm drawing this and that's just something I'm doing on the side and it's no big deal. If you're really going to study and sit with the concepts like stuff really starts to shift in the life that's the power that's the power of it all it is to know that like whatever time it takes

is the time needed for the process you know for the process to occur. There's so many different types of decks these days. And, you know, some people have judgment around this one's too dark and this one's too light and that one's too fluffy and this one, but it's like, we find the things we need at that time and they hold meaning for us. And whether you're just using the tarot to post something on Instagram, that's beautiful, or you're meditating on it for three hours a day on a single card. I don't have any judgment. Everyone comes into it exactly where they are and gets just what they need at that time in their life.

So I think the decks are very generous. They meet us anywhere. Beginners, advanced, as long as we don't start to become jaded and closed off, they meet us. to Mandy and I, of course. And one of the cards is about spirit guides. Yeah. So everything in our deck is about stuff that they've listened to our podcast. They're like, Oh yeah, that's, you know, Shannon and Mandy. So I always joke. Well, kind of, I shouldn't say joke. He really does. Archangel Michael looks like Brad Pitt. I mean, like straight up, he's like legends of the fall Brad Pitt. So I'm trying to do a very close likeness of Brad Pitt, you know, to give that, you know, you know, our listeners will know they're like, oh yeah, you know, that shit was part of the Bible. And as I'm doing this and I, I am like spending hours on this one.

Well, that was like the first version of him. And as I'm doing the art and listening to a true crime podcast, because I'm a total true crime junkie and it's true crime garage. And all of a sudden, I mean, like 13 minutes into the episode and all of a sudden you hear St. Michael, the Archangel defend us in our day of battle protect us against the deceit and wickedness of the devil may God rebuke him we humbly pray

and you, Prince of the Heavenly Host, by the power of God, banish into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who roam through the world seeking the rune of souls. Saint Michael is one of the principal angels. His name was the war cry of the good angels,

as he led them in the battle fought in heaven against those led by the dragon, who was in fact the devil or Satan. The devil and his followers were defeated, and they were thrown down to earth. According to scripture, Christian tradition gives to St. Michael four offices. To be the champion of God's people. To fight against Satan. To call away from earth and bring men's souls to judgment. And to rescue the souls of the faithful from the power of the enemy, especially at the hour of death.

For no reason, Kim. No reason. And I'm like looking down at my art and like, what's going on? It was so freaking cool it was so weird I actually screenshot everything and said to Mandy like everything he said and like the art I was working on like this is wild this is super wild unknown but yeah it was so amazing so you can tell there is this divine energy that is formed around each card and the times when I haven't felt that I scratch it it's so cool I love that story oh the archangels are like they're a whole thing I used to be a little unsure about them I think because of like my relationship with Christianity growing up and I was just like, what is this? What is this energy? And once I kind of like opened the gates

and just like accepted the idea of Archangel Michael, Gabriel, even just like saying their name or saying the prayers and stuff, It's so powerful. I don't even know what to make it. I'm not even sure how to talk about it, but I just, I love that. He's pretty hot. Like Brad Pitt. Oh my God. This one is not very hot, Kim. And either is this one and the Buffalo. So, well, actually, so it's the 10 of swords and the nine of swords in your deck. Oh, you know, when people see those, they're like, oh God, what's happened to me now? Yeah. They're pretty dark.

Those cards. I mean, I thought of this earlier. It's a little bit of a dark story, but I'll share it anyways. You had asked about if I had kids at this point, which I don't. And that's been a really challenging journey for me through the years. And I remember when the deck first came out and I was driving in the car and I stopped at a rest stop and I was headed to an ashram. I just finished the deck deck i had like the first prototype or something we hold up the cards that you that you had just now i think you had the um yeah the nine of

nine and the ten of swords okay so i was in the car and i asked my former husband at the time was was also in the car he was going to drop me off at the ashram and he was in the rest stop and I asked the deck you know should I get pregnant now like what's the deal with me and kids shuffle the deck and I pulled the nine of swords that card that you just held up the card of nightmare and turmoil And I was really freaked out. And that has been part of my journey with fertility and then losing pregnancies, eventually getting a divorce, many stages to the multiple tricky complications. And I think about that card often, and it's so easy to think like, oh, like blame it on the card or say that's so dark or whatever. But in a way, I now can look at that journey and know no matter

what happens in my life, whether I become a biological mom or a mom in another way, or through metaphorically through my work, that the card helped me to know that I was on a path of meaning. It's none of this is for not that my struggle with fertility is something that helps me be a more compassionate person and show up differently as an artist and have more compassion for my fellow beings and it it's there's something about the tarot cards that lets us know we're never alone if that card exists, everyone experiences the nine of swords in some part of their life. And that is also their gift. If they can stay close to it and hold it with meaning, like this is a bigger storyline than just me trying to do IVF, you know, there's a bigger purpose here. And that's a great gift of the tarot constantly reminding me there's something bigger at play. I can't see it now. And that

feeling of that card has shifted. Now, when I think about my fertility path, I think of it more like, I don't know what card it would be, maybe Wheel of Fortune, that I'm being, I'm being like churned, turned around through a kind of destined path. And I don't know what right side up looks like. I don't know the outcome. But I'm blessed and protected and held. Even though I can't control the outcome, you know, I can't like get what I want so to speak I love that thank you for sharing that it almost reminds me of the inside of your deck where it says welcome to the wild unknown tarot you'll find no wrongs or rights inside this box only mirrors for reflection open your mind draw a card and have fun on your journey.

You know, I actually wanted to ask you about that. There's a lot of power in the box that your cards goes into. There's something just so beautiful about how you designed it. I mean, I'm so attracted to it that like a normal deck and just, just the box is like so boring to me now. I also love that it's like this protection around them. Can you talk about, you know, designing that and the meaning of it to you? Yeah. And this is probably a time I should mention the more portable version that's coming out this year, the Pocket Tarot, which is super cute. And it comes in like a mini box. It's like travel size, so you can pop it in your purse or a bag when you're traveling. It's in a tin, kind of like Altoids. It's bigger than Altoids, but you know, the metal tin with a super tiny guidebook. I have it here. I know your viewers

can't see it, but it's like really tiny. It's like it's little baby. Super adorable. Tiny, tiny book. I want that. It might fit in your bra. But yeah, the box, just having it sort of feel like opening the box is a ritualized experience. So it feels like, oh, I'm entering a kind of different universe right now. That's the idea of having the packaging be more elaborate. You feel you're entering through some kind of mysterious door. Yeah. Sometimes we get these decks that are so hard and are so awkward to hold in your hands. They're not my go-to decks just because of that.

For me, myself, I would want it to feel good. You know, the energy feel good in your hands. Yeah. I'm excited for you all to get the hex deck next year, the alchemy deck, because it's really interesting in the hand, the hex shape. It was really cool to draw in that shape. Very different for me.

So powerful shape. I feel like right now I'm going through this draw in that shape. Very different for me. So powerful shape. I feel like right now I'm going through this shift in my life. My whole life, I have been extremely vulnerable and raw with my addictions, with the darkness around me and my addiction to the shameful things that I did when I was in my addiction, not only to myself, but to others. I've put it out on social media. I was a person that didn't have a secret and that just put every ounce of my life out there for everyone to see. And right now I'm kind of in this space where I'm keeping more to myself. I'm not even sure why. I don't know. I'm in this like space where I'm just being a little more private with myself for the first time ever. It's a, it's a weird

space for me to be in. And I don't know why, but I'm embracing it. And I saw, I feel like, and correct me if I'm wrong, but based on what you said at the beginning of this interview, that sometimes, you know, when we asked you about your childhood, sometimes you like to keep that absent and you, you like to keep it separate from your art. And so then when I saw that you did this book, the blossoms and bones, I mean, you really are putting yourself out there. It's like, you're doing the opposite of me. You're shifting more into putting more of yourself out there, telling a little bit more about what you've been through. Was that hard for you? And also thank you for putting it out there because talking about your eating disorder and your

miscarriages and your divorce and, and being so raw with your story, how did that feel to you? And thank you for putting it out there. Thanks, Mandy, for bringing it up. Yeah, that was a wild, wild project. I mean, the reason that I could go there and touch on those topics and kind of tell my story was, again, to go back to this idea of being mesmerized by art. I literally used the art to express all these complications that I was going through around disordered eating, body dysmorphia, who am I, you know, after being married for 12 years and thinking I should be a mom and I should be, should be, should be all these things in the perfect house. And, and then after all of that, really just combusting or collapsing, dissolving, who am I? And I took a lot of that judgment and pressure and I aimed it at myself, which resulted in the eating disorder and a lot of criticism around

my physical being. And so my first step was to draw, to start drawing it, a process called Draw the Feeling, which resulted in the book that you referenced blossoms and bones it came out right into pandemic which was kind of complicated for launching a book you know some of the wild unknown audience was ready to delve into some weren't it brought in some new readers and new voices into the fold to go back to this idea like the things that are challenging don't feel like it but they really are like such deep blessings in our life you know hindsight is 2020 we can see it later but when we're in it trying to learn day to day to be with what is and continue you know making my work and being connected amidst any kind of pain that comes up. We talk about that a lot. It's that pain to purpose. Yeah. So did I hear this right? The

Wild Unknown deck was in the Netflix series, Atypical. That series blew me away because my son who was on the spectrum reminds me so much of the main character I just love that show like I knew they were going to use the tarot it's like in season three something you know pretty deep into the series and I was like I don't know it's some trendy show who knows what we know what the deal is but I didn't even know what it was about and I sat down and watched it and I just watched I watched it in like a weekend the whole thing it's so so good and it goes back to that idea of like not being alone and being able to see you know our own family patternings in all sorts of ways through that show they just did such a good job and it's also like funny and so entertaining and yeah then they bust out the tarot deck like in season three

and I was like losing my shit by the time I saw it I was like so in love with the characters and I was like I can't believe this you know I don't get like so starstruck like very often and as I kind of think of the deck is like, it's really, isn't me. It's just the deck. It does its thing in the world. I don't know. It's so crazy, but it does. So when it's on a show, I, I don't typically like freak out, but I was really freaking out. It was so cool. I think the one takeaway that I really got by researching you over the past few days and really like kind of digging into who you are is the takeaway for myself was I've always judged what comes out of my hands. Like I tried to, to draw a picture of what I saw when I had my near-death experience.

And there was a lot of crying. There was a lot of, you know, telling my daughter what I was writing. It was very emotional and it helped me like release and reflect. And I think when someone's not truly as creative or isn't an artist. Like I'm not like, I was looking at what was in front of me and judging it versus the experience of it because the experience was perfect. Your blossoms and bones. It's like remembering that left-hand thing, you know,

it's unknown. It might not make sense to other people or what you, whatever you designed, I might get my perspective. It might be different when I look at it, but it's exactly how it's supposed to be. And the experience of the art. Yeah. Wow. I'm so interested. You tried to draw, you drew the feeling that you had of the near death experience. Yeah. I tried to draw the feeling and the feeling that you had of the near death experience. Yeah. I tried to draw the feeling and then also like what I physically saw. I mean, I know not physically saw because I wasn't a physical being, I was a soul. So I didn't have eyeballs,

but what my soul, what my soul was experiencing, but, but so it was, so last night I pulled it back out after, after researching about you and I looked at it and it was it so last night I pulled it back out after after researching about you and I looked at it and it was perfect there was no judgment because you reminded me it might look like you know scribbles to someone else but it expresses everything that it was supposed to does that make sense yeah and it just goes back to this point of like the image is alive, like it's going to change as you change. And it will continue to be with you. You know, sometimes people ask, like, do you really believe in tarot? Do you believe in this?

Do you believe in witchcraft? Do you believe in? Well, I believe in image. And that doesn't mean it's drawn. It can be an image in the heart. It can be an image in the mind. It can be an image in the mind. It can be a sound, the way song is imagination. It's something that compels us. It can come in the form of a dream. It can come in the form of a lover, whatever it is, a goal, a vision. But I really believe in the power of that to show up at the right time in our life and to continue to

slowly unfold. If it is a rich image, like what Carl Jung called like compelling image, it will not reveal its full form immediately. If it does, it's like a stop sign. That's just a stop sign. It's just done. You know, there's no need to keep thinking about what stop sign means, but that's, what's so cool about the tarot, about the vision you're talking about. It constantly asks you to come back to it because its work is like never finished. Thank you for that. That was beautiful. Sometimes I go back and look at my writings from right after my near-death experience and what I put out there and my story has evolved and changed. And then because I have changed and

my spirituality has changed, my journey has changed. So when I look back at my original writings that I put out there, I'm like, well, if I put out now what I feel about it or what I'm seeing, it will seem like what I wrote the first time was a lie or bullshit. It wasn't a stop sign. So thank you for that. It evolved and the story evolved and the meanings of things that I saw evolved. So great reminder. This is such an important point because I look back at the tarot deck that I made as a self-publish and it's now 10 years old. I know so much more about the tarot now. I know more about spirituality, supposedly all these modalities. I've gone

to grad school where we studied Carl Jung and synchronicity and depth psychology and its relationship to symbol and all blah, blah, blah, blah, fill in the blank of all the things that I've learned in the last 10 years. So I look back at this deck and I feel incredibly self-conscious. I want to rewrite the guidebook like every day. I want the cards to be different because my art has changed. But when I think about what deck I would draw now as a tarot deck compared to then I don't know if knowing more supposedly is is helpful actually because what it does is it makes the door smaller and smaller and smaller for the viewer to or the reader to get through. It makes it

more specific, like as if they have to have more scholarly, like I want it to be more scholarly, this, the tarot deck. And that leaves the 15 year old in Nebraska, who's trying to figure out how to tell their parents some complicated thing or gender, it leaves them out because I suddenly got really smart and scholarly. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I don't as painful as it is to like, wish the thing was more advanced. I don't want to leave people behind so where I was was just perfect for that time and for the people who are interfacing with it exactly to be able to use it and as I get older the decks that I make become more specific and the people

can slip in and out of them as they as they see fit um but closing the door. So it's only me and my scholarly companions, like five of us sitting around in an esoteric circle. You're like, I can't talk to Carl Young here on earth. So people are dead. Wow. That's so true. I have, I have goosebumps all over me when you've said that, that so, it's so true though. And guess what? The world really received it just as it is. You know, speaking of the world receiving it, it came out in 2012 and then it just boomed in 2016.

Why do you think that it happens like that? I self-published in 2012 and couldn't really keep it in stock. It just kept selling out and, and Instagram was getting big at that time. And it just, the two things converged and, and then Harper Collins came and picked it up and they released it in 2016. So to a much wider distribution, it actually came out the day that Donald Trump was elected. Whoa. I had a feeling something big that happened when this deck in 2016. Wow. We were supposed to have a release party that night at my house. And I remember at like 5 PM,

we just, everyone called each other and said, don't anyone come to anyone's houses. I'm just on the couch crying. Anyway, that the deck came out and a wider distro into that, that reality. So actually you're coming out with a known notebook collection. I love that. I'm going to definitely put that in my Georgia stocking and the note cards too. They're available right now for pre-order and they should be shipping mid-November. So plenty of time for the holidays.

Yeah, I used to send actually tarot cards. I would pull a card for someone and send it to them in the mail with a little note. And this is the note cards that you spoke of are kind of like a version of that where you don't have to lose one of the cards in your deck so they oh my god there's different cards in them do you have a full deck is the full deck like all the cards in the note card okay not all the full deck I think it's like 12 or something like that but it's kind of the faves, the best of. Would you, and if you want to say no, please feel free, but would it be odd to ask you to maybe pull a card for Shanna and I for Sense of Soul?

Oh my God, I will do it. You know what I have in my studio is this, the viewers can't see it, but this is a giant, super giant jar. Oh, I was going to ask you when you said you pulled a card from a jar with your left hand I was like in a jar I was trying to picture that yeah so I have in my studio all the decks put together several of them in one giant jar and then when people come to the studio to visit they can pull one and then take it with them um but I'll pull this is just one as a theme for for all okay yeah that sounds fun okay pulling one card for all of us and the listeners oh wow this is from the animal spirit deck this is the vulture card this is one of my very favorite cards of the deck the vulture is like a transmutator

of i guess i could say pain i'm gonna hodgepodge this if there's any scientists or biologists listening but it basically has some ability in its stomach in its digestion to assimilate bacteria. So vulture can eat, I was getting gory for a sec. Just stay with me. Vultures can eat roadkill and they can digest in their system and transmutate like infection or any kind of bacteria. Whereas like if a bear were to come and eat the dead deer on the road, not that a bear would, but if another animal would, a wolf or what have you, it would mess up their stomach. So vultures have this way. So cool. They don't create new energy. Like they don't go out and kill things. They take from what is, and they get their energy from what is. They also ride on like thermal waves in the, in sky they don't like flap their wings like a hawk does

they do they they get up there and then they ride on the existing energy so there's this theme around them that they find sources of energy and they can digest it in an assimilate it in a way that keeps the ecosystem going. So they're like a great benefit to the ecosystem because they clean up the dead creatures and are nourished by them. And the bacteria doesn't spread through the other animals of the forest. Again, it's been a while since I thought about the vulture. So everyone should just research on their own but that's um that's something that always stays with me the vulture they have that scary neck like right because they don't have feathers here so that they don't get that bacteria trapped um around their heads they can go in and eat and um yeah so that i'm just speaking like kind of about you know habitat

and and their behavior but you can think about how that would translate spiritually to the ability to be with you know the grief that's happening now and the losses and the complexity and to transmutate or digest it so it doesn't spread unconsciously yeah very sacred bird yeah they're also such an underdog it's like you say vulture and it's like we need more vultures and people go like oh we don't need vultures they're like scary you know they'll they take but they're really such a powerhouse and they're their crew. We have a listener who reached out to us, who's been having lots of vultures land in her backyard and amongst like, I mean, animals, and I have never really looked into vultures until she started sending me pictures of them because they're just massive and so unique looking. And I was just recently driving in like the kind of, um, I wouldn't say backwoods,

but like this wooded area of LA, if you can imagine that. Um, and in going into Encinitas, uh, anyway, I saw a vulture and I was like, wait a minute. And so I had my husband pull over the car and I'm like, what is that massive thing right there? And he's like, that's a vulture. And man, they are so cool to look at in person. They are huge. And you're right. They kind of look a little scary. And I never knew anything about what you just said, but there's so much beauty in them too, because they're just so powerful looking. they're totally otherworldly yes it's like you think you have you think you have this life figured out just like go look at a vulture you're like whoa yes we're on earth that's so random mandy talk about

synchronicity just seeing a vulture like within the past week yeah and of all places california i'll probably go see one on the way to walmart later i mean like within the past week. Yeah. And of all places, California. I'll probably go see one on the way to Walmart later. I mean, they're huge. They're so beautiful. Well, Kim, we are truly honored. Like part of me was like, well, we can just tap out now. We can just like, you know, stop sense of soul. We've maxed out on our goals because Kim was one we never thought that we would have on. Like we're bowing to you for your work. And so I just wanted to express truly an honor to have you on and you have guided my life and my journey through your deck and your journal and with my daughter. So thank you for your work. Thank you for your vulnerability

for just being you and trusting someone like me in the suburbs of Aurora, Colorado with holding your beautiful deck in my hand. So thank you for coming on. Thank you, Mandy. It means so much. Shout out to all of your,

we have two websites mainly to send some people to is right um you can find me at kimcranz.com or the wild unknown and same thing with insta i'm my personal feed is kimcranz um that's where i share more more of my far out work um dreams and visions and left-handed drawings and then the Wild Unknown has a lot of posts and support around the tarot deck and using the tarot and different cards. And now it's time for break that shit down.

I would just say, pick up the pen, whatever that means to you. Just put it to the page. Let it be and something will be revealed. I love that. That's one of Mandy's favorites right there. Can't wait to meet your daughter someday. Oh yeah, both of your daughters. They're pretty cool. Well, Kim, thanks for taking time out of your day to be with us and can't wait to get your pocket deck to stuff in my bra along with my crystals and everything else. My boobs really aren't this big. It's just all the crap I have in these bras. It's such an honor to meet you. Love you. I love everything you do. You have an all-time invitation to come back anytime. Thank you.

Thank you both. Much love. Hey, did you know that Sense of Soul now has a Patreon where you can get exclusive episodes, mini-series that Mandy and I have been working on for a long time that we can't wait to share with you, monthly readings, Sense of Soul sacred circles, workshops, behind the scene clips, and much more. Hop on Sense of Soul Patreon right now and sign up.

Thanks for being with us today. We hope you will come back next week. If you like what you hear, don't forget to rate, like, and subscribe. Thank you. We rise to lift you up. Thanks for listening.