Sense of Soul - Truth Seeking, Angels, Aliens and Hybrid Beings

Episode Date: December 31, 2020

Happy New Year’s Eve! We saved the best for last in 2020 on Sense of Soul Podcast.  Paul Anthony Wallis joined us, he is a researcher, speaker, coach and author of books on spirituality and mysticism. He researches the world’s mythologies for how they speak to our origins as a species and our potential today as human beings.  In the ’80s and ’90’s Paul’s work centred on establishing foundations for new faith communities. Over the last 20 years, he has designed and delivered training for church-ministers in the UK and Australia. In Australia, Paul has lectured on the history of religious thought and hermeneutics (principles of interpreting texts – including the Bible) and has served the Anglican Church as an Archdeacon in the Australian Capital Territory. In his new book, Escaping from Eden, Paul documents the links within the Sumerian creation account: The word Annunaki, he explains, means “Those who came from the heavens to Earth,” a phrase that made clear their extraterrestrial origins.  The Sumerian story which begins with the rulers coming down from the heavens, the glyph for these rulers is a symbol pointing to the sky! The Annunaki were from the heavens. They were sky people!!  Watch his documentary, which has millions of views, it’s awesome, just shows how many are awakening! WHY ARE WE HERE? A Scary Truth Behind the Original Bible Story | Full Documentary Follow Paul on his YouTube Channel... disable_polymer=true&itct=CBIQ8JMBGAEiEwiOgrmw6PftAhVSxhYJHWofDvU%3D Mind & Body Relaxation: Guided Sleep Meditation for Stress, Anxiety & Calming The Mind - Paul Wallis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW07F... Paul also provides personal coaching to clients in leadership and is a practitioner of healing in the Christian tradition. He is a musician, a story-teller, an author, a mentor, a conscious breather and a barefoot walker. Visit his website at www.paulanthonywallis.com. Visit www.mysenseofsoul.com to  check out our classes and workshops that are now available!  Please Rate, Review and Subscribe to our podcast! Thank you! Happy New Year 2021!     

Welcome to the Sense of Soul podcast. We are your hosts, Shanna and Mandy. Grab your coffee, open your mind, heart and soul. It's time to awaken. Today we have with us Paul Anthony Wallace, a researcher, speaker, coach and author of books on spirituality and mysticism he researches the world's mythologies to how they speak to our origins as a species and our potential today as human beings in the 80s and 90s Paul's work centered on establishing foundations for new faith communities over the past 20 years he has designed and delivered training for church ministries in the UK and Australia. In Australia, Paul has lectured on the history of religious thought and principles of interpreting text, including the Bible. And he has served the Anglican Church as Archdeacon in the Australian Capital Territory.

Today, Paul is with us to talk about his book, Escaping from Eden, where he documents the links between Sumerian creation account, the word Anunnaki, he explains, means those who came from the heavens to earth, a phrase that made clear their extraterrestrial origins. We just thank you so much for taking the time today. G'day, both. So glad we met. You're in Australia, right? I'm in Australia. That's right. Oh, I'm jealous. This is a subject that Mandy and I really love and we're super excited to talk about it. And just to give you a little background about why we even like this subject is because we were doing an episode on star seeds a little over a year ago. We read a bunch of books on star seeds and I'm

like, this is kind of weird. I said, they kind of sound like angels in some way. If you just like took alien, you took angel and you just said, what are the similarities? And I said, so let me get off the Bible and let me read. I don't get past the first page of the freaking Bible and I'm like, wait, what? Wait a minute. What the frick are nephliums? There's that, which is the first Aidian encounter people tend to become aware of. But in my book, I discovered you can't get past the first two sentences before you're in the territory of a close encounter when you drill into the translation questions. So it's a great subject.

Yes, it is. Shanna and I have been quite obsessed. We're not going to lie. We've stalked you. We've watched every video on you. Awesome. Oh, thank you. First of all, how absolutely intriguing that for so many years that you were translating

and teaching this text. Is this just recent or when did you start studying the Sumerians and this whole other aspect? Yeah, well, yes, good question because I was much like Shanna, I think you were saying just now, you've been reading the Bible, teaching it and thinking, hold on, could I really have missed that? And it was very similar for me. I have been preaching on the Bible for 33 years. And for 15 years, I was involved as a theological educator training pastors in how to interpret the texts. And so in actual fact, the way it worked was in 2009, a gauntlet was really thrown down by the Vatican. I don't know if you're aware of this, but there was a colloquium in 2009, which was a symposium of top theologians and scholars.

Pope Benedict XVI had called on the Pontifical Academy of Sciences to do this, and they were to discuss the theological implications of contact with other civilizations. And they made it very public. There was a big build-up to it, so everyone would know what was going on. And then their spokespeople went to the press afterwards to talk about their conclusions. And one of the most explicit statements came from Reverend Dr. Guy Consolmagno, who's the senior astronomer at the Vatican Observatory. And he said, and here's the punchline, that we shouldn't be surprised to come across alien brothers and sisters, he says, because they're in the Bible. They're in the Old Testament and the New Testament. And when he said that, I thought, really? Could I have missed that?

And I did know about the Nephilim in Genesis 6, which, yes, I think plain reading strongly suggests a non-human presence turning up and abducting and hybridizing. So I was aware of that. So I had an idea there may be an ET or two lurking somewhere in the Bible. But nearly nearly 10 years later, I finally took up the challenge and said, right, I'm going to go through the Bible again from the beginning of Genesis to the end and just test this claim that there are ET encounters in it. And I have to deal with the translation questions that what does the word for angel mean in actual fact what's the root what does this word elohim that gets translated as god actually mean because it's a funny word as you may know sometimes elohim gets translated as angels sometimes as kings landlords demons false gods and then in other texts it's god

so how do the translators know which is which so that was the big question that i i went to and the moment i looked at the etymology of that word uh the moment another story opened up through the text and i mentioned the first two sentences of genesis you translate that and what you've got is powerful beings in the plural arriving on planet earth and then i noticed another funny anomaly because i was so used to reading genesis one two three as a creation story let there be light and everything that follows from that and i'd preached on that so many times and there are many beautiful truths in in that story but i hadn't really noticed until i sat down to look for ets that before let there be light before the

sun the moon the stars planet earth already exists that text. It already exists and it's flooded and shrouded in darkness. And then comes let there be light after the powerful ones turn up. And bit by bit, I began thinking, hold on, what is this? Because it runs in parallel with so many ancestral narratives around the world. And I realize they're all reporting the same visual memory. They describe a planet that's been devastated. It's flooded and life has been taken down to a near zero. They describe a planet that's shrouded in darkness. Then they describe these beings arriving from the skies and beginning the work of rehabilitation of the planet and then nurturing of life on earth and the more i saw the parallels

the more i realized that our cultural memories that go back to genesis one and all these other stories are actually going back to an intervention of another species at a time when the planet was hanging in the balance in terms of life on earth and civilization on earth and that what we begin with is actually a story of recovery and so that was the beginning of my exploration and all these questions of well what is an angel what is an elohim and why are these stories told in other cultures around the world that had no contact with each other what thing is being recalled and so that was what began the journey for me that got me into the rabbit hole those dang rabbit holes yeah let me ask you this at any point did you regret going down this rabbit

hole well I um not regret but there were plenty of oh my goodness moments yeah when I realized that I had gone down several rabbit holes I was in in a huge rabbit warren. And just as we were saying before, when you flip this story around and realize you've been reading this all wrong, I at some point realized I was in the process of writing a book because all my books are sharing the journey books and escaping from Eden is exactly the same. So I share with the reader this experience of going down this rabbit hole. And it wasn't very long before I was thinking. Escaping from Eden could be a book about absolutely everything, because everything connects with these questions, who we think we are, what we think we're capable of, what we think this life is, how we understand God, how we understand the universe. Everything gets reframed the moment you start coming to terms

with, first of all, we're in a populated universe. And second of all, I've been reading this Bible book all wrong. It's kind of what I meant when I used the word regret, because Shannon and I found that when we started researching things, we had to kind of grieve the knowledge and the truth that we was not the truth absolutely it is it is a grief process you're exactly right i actually talk about this in the sequel to escaping from eden and and take people through the steps because between the two of us we might remember what the steps because between the two of us, we might remember what the steps of grieving are. I think the first is denial, anger, depression, resignation, depression, acceptance, something like that. You do go through that process because you have to

grieve for your old worldview, things you thought you knew, things that i mean because that's where you get your sense of meaning from uh and your sense of significance certainly was the case for me being a person in ministry and so you take all that away all right then so who are you what is your place in the universe and you can go through a period of uh sort torpor and thinking, well, what's it all about then? And if I've lived this long sort of not knowing anything or being misled in some areas, what's what's my place in the great scheme of things? And you have to recover all that on a different footing, don't you? And it takes time. I think Shanna and I are still in the grieving process, to be honest. And we did. We went

through the anger. Shanna kind of stuck more to, she's nicer than me. She doesn't get angry. She was more just sad. I was like, I was pissed. I was dropping F-bombs. When it comes to the ET aspect, you quickly work out how history has been manipulated and how governments um lie and keep information from us and it's quite difficult to get out of the anger that that produces but at some point you have to reach the point of saying, okay, all right, life is a learning experience. I've just learned some stuff. How do I now live in this world that is a bit different to what I thought it was? And for me, also, there was a reframing of God, because I had had this lovely, neat and tidy, cozy idea of who God is.

And he's very nice. And we have kind of a thing going and he makes me feel significant. And I love the fact I can work for him. And, you know, I'm a minister, so I'm a bit of a VIP. And then all that goes. And what I have found is actually the change in my understanding of what God is, the reframing of my idea of what Jesus was on about has actually been a wonderful thing because it opened me up to a bigger world, a bigger universe. I'm in conversation with far more people, all sorts of interesting people arriving on this territory from all sorts of different start points. And I realized that we're all part of a huge adventure, including

those who visit us, including the nice ones and the not nice ones. And a new adventure begins to take shape. And I think what excites me is that my new vision and understanding of the universe and God means that we all, just as Jesus said, have access to cosmic things, to divine things, to divine wisdom, to divine power. It, we're very, very intimately connected with all that and with each other and i like knowing that because i think often religion whether it's christianity or other religions often operate on the basis that we are all inadequate that there's something wrong with

every one of us and that we're all separated from God, except if he chooses to be particularly nice or you do all the right things, learn to pray right and all the rest of it. And I find out, no, no, no, no, no, no. We are already all intimately connected with the universe, with divinity, with one another. And it's just about enjoying the experience of that and finding out the implications of it. So it's a good journey. It's an exciting journey. Well, let me ask you then, who do you believe is your God or your creator? Well, I am very grateful to the Apostle Paul because he gave quite a nice definition of his understanding of God in his most famous sermon probably is his most famous sermon in act 17 in in Athens in Greece and he

said that God for him was the source of the universe and everything in it well the word he was used was the source of the cosmos and everything in it so when i use the word god i'm talking about the source the ultimate source the thing from which everything else proceeds and in my research for escaping from eden i rediscovered plato we all had to study him at theological college, but mainly just to get quotes for essays. And none of us actually sat down and read a whole Plato book, which we should have done because he's so important. It was a British philosopher who summed up the entire Western tradition of philosophy as being no more than a series of footnotes to Plato and it is he's that important Plato had really gathered together the wisdom of the ages two and

a half thousand years ago and formed a synthesis a worldview an understanding of things that was actually the foundation for many of the leaders of christianity as it began so if you go to church fathers like clement of alexandria justin martyr origin marcian and ask them well how would you describe god they would probably have quoted plato word for word and plato went a little more detailed than Paul. Paul says God is the source of the cosmos and everything in it. Plato said that the source was and is a unified field of consciousness and intelligence. And that unified field, that language implies love and harmony and order and he said that consciousness existed before anything else and the material universe came

into being in order for that consciousness to express itself and you and i are part of that we're part of the material universe so we are part of that. We're part of the material universe. So we are part of that consciousness experiencing and expressing itself. So that's how Plato described God. I find that really got my attention right away because I've been reading up on quantum research. I love, love that. At the beginning of your book, in your discovery discovery I don't know what it's called you were studying the Sumerians version are you talking about the Behi student inscription yes yes this sounds a lot like Genesis but there's no God involved here yes that's right that really was

the red pill moment for me we couldn't read the Mesopotamian cuneiform tablets until the 1800s, after we discovered the Bay Houston inscription. We started digging them up in the 1500s, and we didn't know what they were. Some scholars said, oh, this is just, you know, like playing cards or something. This is just decoration. And then finally, in the 1800s, we realized, no, these tablets contain a record of this ancient, ancient civilization from 7,000 years ago. And some of those records refer to civilizations even older than that. And as we began translating them, just as you were saying, we started reading stories that sounded, hang on, this sounds like Adam and Eve, this sounds like the fall, this sounds like the flood, there's the limiting of

human life, there's the Tower of Babel. And it became clear very quickly that what we have in Genesis, particularly chapters 1 to 11, is a summary form of these old, old stories. Now, that shouldn't surprise us, because Abraham and Sarah, the progenitors of the Hebrew tradition, came from a Sumerian-based culture. They'd have grown up with those stories. And so it's natural they would have a summarized form that they'd carried with them when they left Ur of the Chaldees and sewn that into the beginning of their own tradition. But as you rightly say, the shock horror of it was that the originals in the Sumerian, Babylonian, Arcadian, and Assyrian of the Adam and Eve story, the fall, the flood, Tower of Babel, make no mention of God. They are the stories of our ancestors bumping up against

sky people, a colonizing presence on planet Earth who've come from somewhere else to manage planet Earth, interfere in our development as a species, and really live on Earth the way we do when we colonize other people's countries but it was the absence of god that was the shock horror and then to realize that in fact the elohim stories the stories of the powerful ones in the bible are the stories of the sky people in the sumerian story so straight away you realize the elohim are ets they They are sky people. They're from somewhere else. They're a colonizing presence. And as you reframe all the stories in the light of that in the Bible, they actually start making a lot more sense. So all those problem passages where God does

bizarre things, vicious things, genociding things, makes absurd mistakes, fails to anticipate the obvious, uses technology like chariots of fire yeah all of a sudden it makes sense yeah we're looking at humanity caught in the crossfire of conflicts among these sky people over how to manage project earth but i tell you what it's what really shocked me and one of my anger responses when I first started getting into this was, hey, wait a minute. We've known this since the 1800s. How come I never got taught this in church? Nearly 200 years later, how have we not been told?

And escaping from Eden is really wanting to let the cat out of the bag. I know, you brave soul. The whole chubby cheek baby little angels aren't as cute as they were painted. Yeah, that's right. Really, that's what I thought, you know. Like Mandy said, for myself, it was like all at once, though. It wasn't just religion. It was history. You know, I just, I really history you know I I just I really

you know I'm in my mid-40s and all of a sudden everything that I thought I knew and that I was so that I had so much faith in believing too just you know wasn't what it was and it was really devastating to me yes it it can be be devastating. And I must say, I'm contacted by people every week, and some weeks, it's every day, by people who are in that, I've just discovered something. On the one hand, I'm kind of excited by it. But on the other hand, my world is now in pieces. What do I do now and as i said before it really takes a time to go through that process of reframing and sometimes people just need some company on that journey as they go through a time when their worldview is in bits and they are trying to work out well

how does this connect with this how does this connect with this? How does this connect with this? And then how do I live my life in the light of this information? Has this changed your perspective on Jesus and the story? Yes, it has. Escaping from Eden really carries the reader from the point where I discovered, oh my goodness, there are ETs in the Bible, to the point where I'm beginning to process what that means for my relationship with Jesus, my theology of Jesus. And there are some answers given in Escaping from Eden, but I kind of leave it hanging a little bit because there's, you know, people need time to process stuff. And I felt I'd taken the reader as far as I could in a single book. So I do a bit more in the sequel coming out next year,

which is the scars. Yay. So if people want to explore that, then April of next year, that'll be coming out for myself the first exciting thing that i realized was altering my view on jesus was going back to plato and plato talks about that consciousness thing he says that we begin as aspects of the source which is the statement of the obvious really aspects of that consciousness therefore we're conscious beings before we're material beings so we're consciousness then we individuate as individual consciousnesses then we come into this material life and then after this

material life our consciousness continues and there's more journey afterwards now when i read that in plato i thought hold on i've read this before this is in the gospel of john this is exactly how jesus understood himself and that journey is described in different language all the way through but if you just read the first chapter of john you you'll hear Jesus described that way. In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Then the word became flesh and dwelt among us. And then in John 17, at the end of the gospel, he's praying to the source, who he calls father. And he says, soon I'll be returning to you back to the glory we enjoyed together before the foundation of the world. So there's that same story,

consciousness, individual consciousness, material life, consciousness afterwards. And I began to realize that that actually is the model for all of us, that Jesus's understanding of himself is mapping out the journey we're all on which Plato had already said you know about 400 years previously so that took me back to Jesus and I began joining all the dots between all the places where Jesus very clearly says that he is our model you will do all the things you've seen me doing. These and even greater things, he said, as the father sent me. So I sent you. And he parallels himself with us so many times.

The title he preferred for himself was son of man, which simply means human. Towards the end of the gospel, his followers indicate that after he's died, they're going to start praying to him. And he says, don't do that. Go to the father. Talk to the father yourself. Ask on your own account. You don't even have to ask in my name.

Ask on your own account. And so he keeps setting himself up as our model. And so that's taken more of a center stage for me in understanding him. But then there's another reframing that happens as well, because Christians often talk about the birth of Jesus as something hyper, hyper unique, a virgin birth. And then if you're a Roman Catholic, his mom was sinless as well. So there was something supernatural about her conception as well. And there's the uniqueness or part of the uniqueness story within christianity except it's not unique his cousin had a very similar experience where

this angel whatever one of those is turns up to his mom or to his dad actually in in the temple and says you and your wife are going to have a baby and he says what are you talking about we're way too old for babies almost the same has happened to their ancestors abraham and sarah when some people turned up and said you're going to have a baby he's going to be very very important and sarah laughs because she says i'm sorry uh you've come post change that's not going to happen and within the year of course they have isaac and that's not unique either i mean the birth of samson is very similar but then so is the birth of lao tzu and the yellow emperor and vipassi buddha the 22nd incarnation of the buddha before we get to siddhartha gotama buddha

these are not unique stories they're part of a very a pattern a story that repeats all around the world all through the ages all through the centuries and now i've discovered as people have contacted me in their hundreds having read escaping from eden i realize that there are women all around the planet today who carry stories like that very very privately that there was something anomalous about this pregnancy and there's something anomalous about this child that they've had very intelligent sensitive sometimes with memories of other lives memories of of other planets. And you realize that this star child narrative is one of the oldest stories we have told to each other through all the ages of human history. And the story of Jesus sits right in the middle of that phenomenon.

So obviously that raises all sorts of other questions for someone coming from a Christian start point. But they're questions that you have to look at because that is the context. That is the world we're living in. These are the pieces of the puzzle we need to start putting together. I know. And it's just so crazy because how did we never see them before? It was right there. I know.

How did we never see them before? I can speak for myself. I know. How did we never see them before? I could speak for myself. I've been busy, you know, and it doesn't matter what line of work you're in, even if you're a minister and your job is supposed to be studying the scriptures. Most of us are working so hard to make ends meet, to keep going, to sustain our families. We don't have the time to sit down and think about those questions or those things that haven't made sense to us, whether it's, you know, things we believe, things we've seen, things we've read, things we've been taught in church or by the government or whatever it is. Yeah. We don't have the time to say, hang on,

let me puzzle this out. You don't doubt your faith like that either. Have you read the book American Cosmic by Diane Paluska? No, not yet. OK, well, that book really fucked me over for sure. That was one of the first ones. She and some anonymous people who are ufologists went to the Vatican. And, you know, she is a professor and like head of her college and all this stuff that she, you know, teaches religion at. And so she had this, you know, special clearance to get into the secret archives at the Vatican.

She was just studying purgatory originally, but she sees this pattern of alien abduction and UFOs being totally described exactly how they are now. But they're all in these secret archives. Years ago, when I read that, I was like, maybe, you know, it was very interesting. But then when we start reading the Bible just like you i was like oh my god it's all right here it's all right here i mean i've always looked at all of angels just like they haven't painted you know on those ceilings and the churches i mean yes and yeah i mean an angel's described very scary in the bible yes you say just like they have them painted. And that's a really intriguing subject all its own. Because if you look at the world's artistic canon, if you

look at religious art, you'll find plenty of paintings that paint things the way we tend to remember them culturally. So angels are very beautiful. They've got blonde hair. And of course, they've got wings. Yeah, I mean, Archangel Michael looks like Brad Pitt. Let's just get that clear. And why wouldn't he? Yeah, and I'm basically, you know, what an angel looks like.

Exactly, that's right. So we have that. We are very clear on that. But then at the same time, you can go to other paintings. And one of my favorites is a painting from 1486 by Carlo Crivelli. So a Renaissance painter who's depicting the conception of Jesus in the womb of Mary. And what that looks like is there's Mary in her house and she's wearing this headgear with a crystal on it. And then up in the sky is a flying saucer and a laser beam is coming down from the flying saucer into the crystal on her headgear.

You're shitting me. I got to go and look at those. So, OK, why is it depicted like that? It's not in my church. No, exactly. If you ask, you know, the Catholic guide, why is it depicted like that it's not in my church if you know exactly if you ask you know the the catholic guide why is it depicted like that they'll say oh that's just the traditional way we depict supernatural events well is it why do we depict it like that why like a laser beam why like a flying saucer and then if you go to the story of Lao Tzu, founder of Taoism, and it's the same story of the Yellow Emperor and Vipassi Buddha, that is how their conception was described. A light shining from

a craft in the sky onto the mother and then a pregnancy results. And then the other side of the angel's story. A lot of people today, if you go around looking for stories of people encountering angels, if you listen to their stories, very often people will describe an encounter where they were in need or in danger. And then some people turned up and helped them. And it was only afterwards that they thought, wait a minute, that doesn't make sense. And sometimes the people would turn up bizarrely with all the equipment that's necessary. Or they turn up, you know, in a white van with all the engineering gear. Oh my God, that happened to me in a white van just the other day. My tire went flat. White van comes up behind me out of nowhere, like seconds later.

Can I help you with your tire i'm like uh yeah i i did touch him i was like are you real yeah well that you you touch and they're real they look human but what's he doing there with the equipment to help you i i know people who've had exactly that happen and they've had the whole wheel to replace for them just happened to have it in the back of the truck you know it was amazing two seconds like you wouldn't believe how i don't want to spoil your story and say it's a really common story but it actually is it happens to so many people often the detail is there it's a white van and so angels apparently, if you just go by contemporary law, just look like regular human beings. You go back to the ancient stories. It's not very different. The beings that turned up and talked to Abraham and Sarah, they just thought were three men until I reckon Sarah got pregnant.

And then they thought, OK, who were those guys? You know, months down the track, they'd go back to that conversation. Where did they come from? Where did they go to again? There's another little detail though, in those moments in Genesis 18 and 19, that gives us a little more detail on what an angel might look like. Abraham and Sarah just saw them as men they go from there to sodom and we discover that they are drop dead gorgeous right that they are you know that one of them really does look like brad pitt you know and the other really does other really does look like mandy and so the crowd responds accordingly just like when the beatles would turn up in some town in the 60s and they would be mobbed. People trying to tear their clothes off them. People wanting exactly what the people of Sodom wanted.

So, all right, they look human, but they're actually very, very attractive. And those stories repeat in cultures all around the world. And I've been really intrigued, absolutely, that when you listen to Indigenous story, listen to the stories of beginnings from Native Americans or Aboriginal Australians, when they go right to the beginning of their people's story, they will often have an account of beautiful people arriving from the stars to help them to teach them what plants are good to eat what are good for medicines when to plant when to harvest all the basic rudimentary knowledge of living as humans rather than animals and building a civilization they credit with visitors and very often they specify visitors from a planet orbiting one of the stars in the Pleiades and so these benevolent interactions with people who just

look like people but they're very beautiful and they're very helpful is ages old and I think that some of those stories within the Judeo-Christian world, we tell as stories of angels. But the word angel actually doesn't tell you anything about the biology of the person you're dealing with. It tells you their function. Yeah. It tells you they've been sent. They're a messenger. They're an agent.

And sometimes it's with a verbal message. You're going to have a baby. And sometimes it's with a verbal message. You're going to have a baby. And sometimes it's very practical help. Can I help you with your flat tire? Were you raised Christian? Ah, that's a good question. No, I wasn't. I became a Christian on my own account when I was just turning 17. My parents were agnostics, I think I'd probably say. It's kind of funny because my mum and dad introduced me to Eric von Däniken's book, Chariots of the Gods. They had a copy and I remember them talking about it

at a dinner party one time and my ears pricked up and I thought it sounded interesting. I felt he'd put his finger on a gap in our ability to explain ourselves and had some really interesting suggestions. So that got me thinking. And in a funny way, that led me to becoming a Christian because I realized it hadn't answered the ultimate question of where does everything come from? Where do we all come from where do we all come from and i got into a two-year-long argument with some christian friends and i lost the argument so i i became a christian i had to come to understand that there is a total difference between the credibility of jesus and the credibility of institutional forms of religion.

Because I wasn't very impressed with institutional forms of religion. But when I looked at Jesus in the Gospels, I thought, no, he's credible. And there's a real coherence and integrity to that teaching. So that's what got me hooked. So it's from then on that I was a believer. And I went quite quickly into the world of ministry. But you know, it's funny being a minister. I enjoyed in many, many ways. I was a church doctor for a long time as an archdeacon for the Anglican church in Australia, theological

educator, but for the whole time I was teaching and preaching from the Bible. And so I was actually confronting myself with these anomalies and things that you have to go back and look at again and questions. And you can only do that for so long before you really do have to go back and look at them again and let another picture emerge. And I have been amazed at the number of pastors who have contacted me who have said something like, now I'm retired. There's that business thing. So now I'm retired. Now I'm retired. I've gone back and looked at these things. And I think you're onto something, Paul. Now, of course, all the time they're kept too busy.

They didn't have time to think about it and if you're leading a congregation how far down that rabbit warren do you want to go because that could really upset the apple cart if you come back and say no job you know might be out of a job if you start saying what you're thinking do you think that noah is the offspring of one of these beings ah yes now this isn't the first time i've been asked this that's one of those things i really need to go back and look at again because there are things in the text that suggest that this was another interesting birth in the story of human birds well in the book of enoch it is anyways yeah that's right so if you look at enoch which is a fascinating book the writer of genesis 6 assumes we've all read the book of enoch

oh really yeah and the writer of jude in the new testament that new testament writer assumes all his readers have read the book of enoch as well he quotes from it oh wow okay okay so you know Christians shouldn't be afraid of the book of Enoch these guys assume we all know it I mean you would think that this is a very important book being that the only person that has not actually died and gone to heaven but actually was picked up and taken to heaven I mean he seems very very significant why would you know that not be an important book? Absolutely. And if you're willing to read Enoch and the Bible with,

with a mind that's open to finding in it, things that are not part of your mainstream view, then very quickly you'll think, hold on, is this astral travel? I'm looking at, is this physical travel? Is this a craft? Is this non-human? Does that mean that's an ET? There's so much. And I think there's so much in the Book of Enoch, that's actually why it didn't make it in to the mainstream canon, certainly for the Western church, because there's too much too much boxes open too much to explain that's right oh yeah and you know what it's the book of enoch is an easy read yeah it is and um you're right i

mean there are texts from that period that are difficult to read i some of the gnostic gospels are really sort of tripping over every sentence to work out what's going on. But they both remind us of a time when Christianity in particular was a kaleidoscope of views and understandings and a kaleidoscope of documents. And it took nearly 400 years for that all to narrow down into a single orthodox view on everything but at the beginning you had all different kinds of texts written in different ways about different things but they were open to a world where we were not alone in the universe open to a world where we're in contact we're part of a wider family open to a world of channeling astral travel pre-existence previous lives all these things were part of the conversation and i might say they were part of the mainstream conversation

and then it all got narrowed down and ruled out and so i hope that escaping from eden will remind people all these things were on the table at the beginning and even in the canonical bible that we have are reminders of that so you get to one john four and we're reminded that channeling was part of mainstream christ mainstream Christianity in the beginning, because John has a little bit of a guide as to how to spot the good spirits from the bad spirits. But it's absolutely taken for granted that believers are going to be channeling spirits and getting information from them. Well, that's still in the Bible, but it kind of doesn't get practiced or preached on particularly. Would we ever think

that God would stop talking to us? I mean, he talks to people throughout the entire Bible, like what? We're just not worthy of that or what? I know. And you get into Acts and he's not just talking to the Christians. He's in conversation with everybody. And after the day of Pentecost, and the day of Pentecost happens, and by the way, Peter says that this is evidence that the spirit of God has been poured out on all flesh, he says. So not just all Christians, not just all religious people,

not even all humans, although we might have had that in mind. It says all flesh. And sure enough, as the apostles go out and about they discover groups of people who are already experiencing spiritual phenomena already hearing from god and then they meet them and they disciple them and say well this is the god that we've discovered and we can tell you some things but god was already out of the box already out of the bag and that's what i found

all through my life really that there has not been a time in my life as a believer when i haven't realized that god divine wisdom divine intelligence divine love divine power is actually in conversation with all of us on the planet and it's just a matter of opening up to that and going with that. So beautiful. That's the one thing I will say is that even through my grieving of what I was told to believe versus now what I know and have experienced, it never changed God for me. It didn't take that away.

God is the source, this higher being, this higher universal consciousness that no one can take away from me no matter what. Yeah. I wanted to ask you about the Essene. Have you ever looked into the Essene as far as Jesus kind of branched off from the Essene? It's not something I've studied a great deal of. It's a really intriguing group that scholars have wondered what relationship Jesus might have had with them, what relationship John the Baptist might have had with them, because they were a very powerful and prophetic group of people. It was like a kind of a monastic community and they were certainly and they regarded themselves as curators of information they they had a prophetic role as

well and they they did put out some teaching that was very prophetic regarding christianity to come because they predate it so they're very very intriguing but i haven't yet made a study of them to find out exactly how they fit in the puzzle but it's what one of the reasons i should do that is because there was clearly something special about the way they carried information. They're an example of a society that has knowledge from somewhere that they are trying to keep safe from the mainstream. And groups like that continue to exist post-Christianity as well as pre and they are curating something that is not being accepted by the mainstream and those groups are phenomenally important so at times when a great example of how this can work is if you think about what happened when Central and South America were invaded by the Catholic forces of Portugal and Spain, they went in with their letters patent from the Pope saying they could use all the force necessary to subdue these territories and then Christianize them. And what that meant was that the Catholic authorities were now the news agency and the

education authority. They determined what was news and what was fake news, what was history and what was old wives tales. And so all the knowledge and information that the Central and South Americans had about the world and the cosmos and human origins was pushed underground. The priesthoods were executed, their books were burned, except for a few choice copies that then got sent to the Vatican Library. Just as in the past, it would have gone to the Imperial Library. So you've now got the vatican library has the information will have all their accounts of human origins so on and so forth and then there would have been some other copies that didn't get burned that didn't get sent to rome that the priesthood would have buried and hidden in order to protect the tradition now

we know that's the case because 200 years later a copy was given to a Dominican priest to translate into Spanish and that became the Pope Hulvu that's how we know what the Mayans believed about where we all came from and so there's this period where you've got the official story what we're all taught in Sunday school in South America in the 1600s or whatever. And then there's this other information that is protected in a vault by a local priesthood that has now become a secret society. And all through history, you have this secret society curating texts that have become forbidden or had to be buried for their protection. The Gnostic Gospels would be examples of those. And the Essenes were a community like that as well, curating information that they knew they might have to protect from the mainstream.

So I do a lot of ancestral work. You know, it's part of my passion. It's where I found a lot of healing within myself. And so then I now help others. And I think looking back at where we come from is such a vital part of who makes us who we are today. So just learning more about not just your physical body, but even your soul's evolution, that this is my belief. And so I thought it was really funny when I saw that you have a alien ancestral conference. Did I see something like that on your website? Oh, alien ancestry.

Yes, that's right. I'll be able to look up on ancestry.com anything about that. No, maybe not. It's really interesting because that is being hosted by Stephen and Evan Strong. And they are a father and son research team.

And Steve began his research in the world of Gnosticism. So all these forbidden texts and everything they were on about. He's actually an Aboriginal Australian as well. And so he and his son do research in the field of original Australian story. Those two things have really come together for them. And they are probably the leading experts in the Aboriginal stories of ancient ET contact, what people call paleo contact. and they believe that our intersection with ET visitors is right at the roots of what makes Homo sapiens sapiens what we are part of the mystery of our story is and this was what intrigued me all the way back when I was 11 years old reading Eric von Daniken there's something very

unique and special about us we are an an earthling. We are a kind of animal that lives on this planet. And so I found that the Christian school I went to couldn't quite explain how we could be God's special creation and yet be an animal at the same time. And then I found science was falling short in explaining how are we at the top of the tree here? The only reason that we are dominating the planet is because of higher consciousness, intelligence and technology. So where did that come from? And they couldn't quite say. So the indigenous stories, the Aboriginal Australian stories all suggest as eric von daniken did that actually we had contact way way back when we were some kind of a primate and then our evolution was enhanced to increase

our capacity for consciousness and intelligence turn us into what we are this is the story that plato told two and a half thousand years ago. That's the story those early church fathers believed, and they saw it in no way in conflict with a proper reading of the Elohim stories in the Bible. So when I met Stephen Evan Strong, me coming from a Bible start point, them coming from an Aboriginal Australian start point, we thought, hey, there's a wonderful synthesis between the things we've found and it's a really coherent picture. There's so many similarities across the board. It's just amazing.

When I was looking at the descriptions of, like, the angels, I was like, oh, it sure does sound like the demigods and, you know, it sure does sound like the, you know, hybrid God. Yes. All over the Egyptian gods. I mean, they're everywhere. They are everywhere. Yeah.

Yeah. That's what I was going to ask you about to talk about the fact that in 2003, they actually found the tomb and could have easily have done a DNA test. Correct. On Gilgamesh and then just decided, no, we're good. We're not going to do any more research. Yeah, that's right. Yes, I'm pretty sure what they really said is we're not going to do any more research in public because they probably had a notion of what they might find. That is such a smoking gun, that tomb of Gilgamesh, because they really let the cat out of the bag. Jörg Fassbinder,

the leader of the research team, went in to this site in Iraq only days after George W. Bush had taken allies in. So it was a very high priority for the allies to get that team in to that tomb site for Gilgamesh. And it wasn't the only archaeological aspect of that mission. I now know, well, we didn't know at the time, but I now know that there were archaeological teams all over retrieving items as part of our going into Iraq. That's a whole other aspect to that. There is. that's a whole nother aspect to that no there is so york fassbender goes on the tv goes on the bbc and says i'm 99 certain this is gilgamesh's tomb so the obvious thing is okay can we test it can

we verify it can we do some dna testing because the story of gilgamesh in the sumerian accounts is that he was a hybrid and as you rightly say hybrid rulers are named by cultures all around the world is it just story or is it founded in reality do some dna testing you can find out but no silence nothing we didn't investigate further apparently there was another find uh queen puabi hybrid being could be dna tested no don't think we'll bother so you know there are just certain things that it would be inconvenient to discover so let's discover it in private is what i think happened but this story of hybrid beings you know i think for some people it's the hardest to swallow aspect of conversation about extraterrestrial life

the idea that people might be abducted and used for hybridization it's just a great giggle fest for a lot of people and yet cultures all around the world carry those stories about human beings being taken and then used to produce hybrid offspring. We know them as the Titans in Greek culture. They're there in Norse, Celtic, African, Native American. And it's a living tradition as well. If you go to Africa today, you can go to Kenya on the East Coast and you've got the Maharani stories and

this is where a person disappears for two or three years and when they come back they say I was taken somewhere by people who looked human turned out not to be I was used for hybridization and now they've let me go and they're actually quite nice and at the moment they say they were actually quite nice of course they get the doctor around or the priest to deliver them because they obviously can't. But the Southern Cone all the way up the western seaboard of Africa into the Caribbean, Brazil, Haiti, Cuba, as far east as the Philippines, going to Europe, Scotland, Ireland, Wales. They all have this same story of these things that have been happening for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years. Why? Why? And the moral of the story is, it's not a moral tale. It is something that has been remembered and reported by people for hundreds of years. And you have to ask,

why? Could there be something to it? Do you think there's a connection with paranormal? In every country, there is a different description of what they experience and what they describe. But overall, it's the same story. Yes, there is a lot of overlap between close encounters and paranormal experiences. Sometimes it's a difference of language. Yeah. experiences sometimes it's a difference of language yeah if you go to ireland and scotland and hear their ancient stories of close encounters and hybridization they will use the language of fairies for instance people will hear that sort of language and they'll say oh well that's this certain kind of story and they won't hear it as an et story yes whereas it's you know you go to north america hear people reporting their experiences today it's more likely to be in the language of ets that they'll describe the experience but there's another way in which it

overlaps and that is that close encounters often interfere with people's consciousness. A couple of ways that can happen is that people where you can remember something beginning to happen and then you don't know how it ended? I have memories like that. I'm now beginning to suspect what they might be about. Man, that's a hard one for me because I used to be a full-blown alcoholic. So I don't know. You'd have a lot of experiences like that. Yeah, like every day. Daski, do you think that the government knows?

I do believe that the Vatican knows. I really do. I truly do. I think that they don't, maybe they don't know the whole thing, but I think there's a lot of evidence there to prove that. But now we're finally even admitting there's some evidence here. I wonder, you know, if maybe one day we'll be like oh yeah you know look there goes um e.g i don't know yes i think the the kind of what i would call soft disclosure that's happening at the moment indicates to me that our governments including the vatican know a whole heap of stuff that they haven't told us yet that colloquium was an example of soft disclosure because they i've got to take

my hat off to them because they were having to really recant on views that they had prosecuted very violently in the past they'd killed people in the past burn them alive for suggesting there might be life on other planets and now they were saying in 2009 no actually all that needs to go back on the table we all need to be talking about it thinking about it we need to be ready to meet other species and accept them that is a disclosure and i felt they were making it because they thought there might be another disclosure coming from somewhere else. And they wanted to be ready to be able to, yeah, don't you remember we mentioned this? There's no issue here. Hey, that sounds like a Trump thing. Right now, of course, we've got these, and they really are amazing disclosures. The last couple of years to have heard from Louis Elizondo,

who headed up the Pentagon's unit for investigating materials retrieved from crashed UFOs. That's now, if you don't like Louis Elizondo, it doesn't matter because it's been confirmed by Eric Davis, who briefs the current iteration of that group. Chris Mellon has confirmed it. He was the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Presidents Clinton and George W. Bush.

That's right. That's all been confirmed by Alain Jouyé, the former head of French intelligence. So it's now being told us by official people. They're really speaking for the Pentagon at at this point even if it's not you know the big wigs we are being told by official people that the pentagon has been investigating materials from what's the phrase off-world vehicles not made on this so it's all out there yeah very very quietly too you know like we'll throw this in on you know the

worst news day of the week of course of course so they can say don't you remember we told you but I think they're going to keep doing that so they'll come a point where if the cat really is out of the bag they can say oh don't you remember we told you? And 70 percent of us will say, yes, I had already joined the dots. But the fact that they're doing it and telling us that tells you right away there's a whole lot more they're not saying. I think about Ed Mitchell, the sixth man to walk on the moon, a more honest man of integrity you could hardly wish to find. He was passionate in campaigning for the U.S. government to declassify information on the company we're in, in terms of ET presence around and involved with planet Earth right now.

He wanted the technology that we have access to, to be available to us as the human race so we can begin living differently now bear in mind he was an apollo astronaut so he was bound by layers and layers of official secrets laws that means there's a heap of stuff he can't say that's what he was allowed to say so when when you listen to what apollo astronauts are saying still bound by official secrecy, you listen to what people from the Pentagon, French intelligence, Canadian intelligence is saying, Russian intelligence. You listen to what the Vatican is saying, put it all together. And, you know, they all know more. They all know more than they're saying.

So you've only got to believe what they're saying for your world to change. I'd love to know the rest of it, wouldn't you? Me too. Yes. Well, and you know, I hope that they're good, like the angels that, you know, like Brad Pitt looking and stuff like that. But then you read a book like Gavin's and I was like, I mean, I didn't sleep for like a freaking month after that book. It's harrowing isn't it i was mad at gavin because the very last page says sleep well and i'm like i literally was like fuck you gavin

my wife and i made the mistake of reading it each evening just before we went to bed the last thing you should do it is very disturbing you see that's an interesting case study he's got there because there is a manipulation of susan's consciousness going on there and so of course you've got to come away from that book thinking all right what was happening and then what were the interpretations of her mind but you can't get away from the fact that something harrowing has happened. And I think there is a spectrum of experiences of ET contact all through history and right now. Some people will report very harrowing, disturbing experiences that have ruined their lives through their contact with other beings and then there are others right at the other end of the spectrum is an australian lady called jane pooley who very courageously went on television and she said i have five children three of them are human

and two of them are hybrids and i take my hat off to studio 10 in australia and ita buttrose the chair of abc out, were giving her a respectful hearing and letting her share her story. She said she wanted to, she waited until her kids were grown up and could handle with their mum embarrassing herself on national television, but she wanted to do it because she felt she needed to acknowledge the other children that she had had and one of the things that people would struggle with one of lots to struggle with in that story if you're not familiar was the fact that she said she really liked the ets who'd been abducting her since she was five years old and she's now i think about 59 years old and she said that the particular being who

would always arrive and say okay we're going for another trip she calls him Graham because he's some kind of a gray but he's not like a little gray that doesn't have any emotions he's a being that can communicate in a more peer-to-peer way she calls him Graham because she says I've grown very fond of him. So there's your total spectrum. And then there are others whose lives have been absolutely ruined by being abused by another species. So what do you mean about the little grey that has no emotion?

Well, there are people who report encounters, often they're abduction encounters, where there are small grey aliens interacting with them and they get the scent they almost wonder if they are more like a robot than a biological entity can't find any sense of emotion in them you can listen back to probably at least three episodes where i had like this vision of a little gray um it was a neutral energy i couldn't sense yeah which i usually can very strongly if it's a feminine or something about the energy but i couldn't and that's so weird that you're saying that other people i've never talked to anybody else that has experienced it so

well that is exactly how people describe these the small grays and yeah for people who are not familiar no that's interesting the classic et image that we have with the almond shaped head and the almond shaped eyes that kind is called a small gray because they are small they're sort of child-sized yeah gray in color and this is what people say they just can't read them there doesn't seem to be anything emotional going on there and it's almost like they they're like worker bees somehow just working around you doing doing their thing. I may have had an experience of those. And it's worth mentioning that because I think a lot of people have anomalous experiences that they try to explain in the language of their own worldview. So I had some experiences when I was 20, that at the time, the only language I had for paranormal experiences like that was the language of my Christianity. And so if you'd asked me in 1985, is anything weird happened to you this year? I'd

have said, yes, I had an experience that I think was demonic. And I had another that I think was angelic. Well well now having done the research I have for escaping from Eden and the scars of Eden I look back on those experiences and I think no I don't think that was demonic and actually I don't think that was angelic in the Christian sense I think those were ET encounters and one of them I just have a fragment of the memory and then I don't know what happened next. And the other, I remember very, very vividly and I've remembered ever since puzzling over what on earth happened. And now I think I know what happened.

So interesting. I can't wait for your textbook on this. And then you also, I saw had element Healing on your website. Is that correct? Or Elements Healing. Yes, I've been involved in healing work 35 years. The healing work I do now really approaches the whole person in terms of nutrition, energy healing, but also all the modalities that I've learned that are able to get a physical result or an emotional result or some kind of resolution to the problem that people come with. And I go at it intuitively and really use all the resources that I've learned, not only through Orthodox Christianity, but more widely as well,

because a lot of the skills we bring is somebody lays a hand over an injury and you begin to feel a heat and then the problem begins to fix that's something people have been doing for thousands of years and so that's that's part of what i do speaking to a condition as if the condition can hear you that's something jesus did but it's actually something that is ages old and part of mystical and shamanic approaches. So all that is part of my approach to healing. If people want to know a bit more about what that is and how it fits together, go to four elements, heating on my website, paulantonywallace.com.

And I've got some stories, some case studies, so you can get a real idea of what it's about. God, I love it. And I also loved your documentary it's on youtube that really helped me for today understand like where you were coming from and how you came up to discover that the word actually anaki is they were sky people they literally that's the name that's in your notes on the documentary. You actually do say, we know this is a lot of information to take in. So if you want to de-stress afterwards to check out, you also have a new mind and body relaxation channel, guided meditation, which thank you.

It is a lot. So thanks for providing also the care that comes with the discovery. Definitely. And that's been a wonderful discovery for me that a lot of the work that's come out of Escaping from Eden has been pastoral work. And it surprised me, but it shouldn't surprise me because that's always been what I've done. But yes, that channel, the relaxation channel is there for exactly that reason. People, when they've got a lot of information to process,

whether it's from watching one of our videos or from everything going on in 2020, go and do some relaxation. Do it in nature if you can, all the better. Do it in some sunshine. Okay, so I have to ask, how long have you been married? 15 years. So your wife knew you as the man who would go and help teach the text of the bible to now the man who's on the phone in the office talking about extraterrestrials was that hard for her i am so blessed i am so fortunate that i married ruth that could have been really awkward, couldn't it? And you know, I know couples who, you know, they're both on a faith journey and their faiths have developed differently. And sometimes they pull apart because of that. So all the things that was happening as I began joining DOTS, and then I sat down doing the study and then other things were happening that really

accelerated the book along the way. Ruth was on exactly the same journey in parallel, separate to me. So what would happen is almost on a weekly basis, I would say, you know, I've been thinking about this. And Ruth would say, that's funny. I've been thinking about that. Next week, she'd say, I've just watched this video. Now I think this and I say that relates to what I was reading this week. about a three year period. We, we made a real turn in our understanding of God, ourselves, the universe, our faith. And we did it absolutely in parallel. And if we hadn't done, then we might not still be married. It's important to have someone there to support you when you're going through this shift in learning these new things. And Shannon and I started Sense the Soul for that

reason, because we were so blessed to have each other. She could call me and be like, dude, I think I just saw a alien. And I'm like, cool. Tell me about it. It's nice to have people that aren't going to judge you and that are going to love you. And then even better when they join you on the journey or that you're both researching different things and then there's synchronicities and it comes together. It's just, it's awesome. And that's, that's why we created Sense of Soul. This is wonderful that you guys had each other. And I love that it's, it's created Sense of Soul because, you know, there are people who don't have someone in their friendship circle to make the journey with.

And at that point, an online friendship or to share the journey with a podcast is an absolute what the doctor ordered. An absolute godsend. You will have thousands of people around the world who relate to you as friends because of what you're providing for them and helping them to make the journey that they're on. One last thing. And now it's time for break that shit down. I find when I'm talking about this topic, one way or another, I will come back to Plato's description

of our soul's journey. And he would say that the purpose of our material life while we're in these bodies is to work out whether we can do love and harmony and consciousness and intelligence as a society of individuals with free choice. That's the great question of life. We wrestle with it as individuals. Have we learned to love yet? And we wrestle with it as societies. And I think that couldn't be more relevant to a number of our countries right now.

And I find that exciting because if the thing I've got to learn is love, harmony, consciousness, and intelligence, those are all things I want. That's really motivating. And I want to live in a world that's like that. So if we can all wake up to that question and say, yeah, let's have a go at that. How wonderful would that be? Thank you. That was perfect. Thank you for having me on today. Oh, yes. Thank you so much.

We'll put all of your links to your documentary and to your website and to your coaching and all your amazingness, your book. And we look forward to your next book. Maybe we'll have you on again. Sure thing. That would be great fun. Thanks, Mandy.

Thanks, Shanna. It's been a lot of fun. Thank you so much. Thank you for sharing your morning with us. We really appreciate you. Thank you. Pleasure. Thanks for being with us today.

We hope you will come back next week. If you like what you hear, don't forget to rate, like, and subscribe. Thank you. We rise to lift you up. Thanks for listening.