Sense of Soul - Winter of the Wolf

Episode Date: December 15, 2024

Today in Sense of Soul we have Martha Hunt Handler she is a writer and an Environmental Activist. Martha is a fierce wolf advocate, she is the founder of Womens Wolfpack, a spiritual sisterhood of eco-warriors supporting one another on their individual and collective journeys to restore the planet and reconnect to Nature. Martha is the award-winning author of Winter of the Wolf, a novel with tragic mystery, blending sleuthing and spirituality. It tells the story of Bean, an empathic and spiritually evolved teenage girl who sets out to discover the truth about the mysterious death of her beloved brother and finds herself on a journey of healing and self-discovery.  The novel is inspired by the death of Martha's best friend's 12-year-old son and covers several important themes, including suicide, grief, spirituality, humans connection to nature, shamanism, and native Inuit culture.  Martha serves as the Board President of the Wolf Conservation Center, where 100% of her author proceeds go to support the organization. https://marthahunthandler.com https://nywolf.org https://womenswolfpack.org Support this podcast by donating to Shanna’s coffee fund: https://www.mysenseofsoul.com/sos-our-podcast

Hello, my soul-seeking friends. It's Shanna. Thank you so much for listening to Sense of Soul podcast. Enlightening conversations with like-minded souls from around the world, sharing their journey of finding their light within, turning pain into purpose, and awakening to their true sense of soul. If you like what you hear, show me some love and rate, like, and subscribe. And consider becoming a Sense of Soul Patreon member, where you will get ad-free episodes, monthly circles, and much more. Now go grab your coffee, open your mind, heart, and soul. It's time to awaken. Today on Sense of Soul, we have Martha Hunt Handler. She is a writer and an environmental activist.

She is a fierce wolf advocate and is the founder of Women's Pack, a spiritual sisterhood of eco-warriors supporting one another on their individual journey and collective journeys to restore the planet and reconnect to nature. Martha is also the award-winning author of Winter of the Wolf, a tragic mystery blending sleuthing and spirituality, a novel that was inspired by the death of her best friend's 12-year-old son, Martha also serves as the board president of the Wolf Conservation Center, and 100% of her proceeds from her book goes to support this organization. And she's with us today to share her journey. Please welcome Martha. Hello. Hello, how are you? Good, how are you doing? I'm good, thank you. I'm excited to talk about wolves in your new book.

You know, here in Colorado, they are really trying to introduce the wolves back into our environment. Yeah, so it'd be better if they would have come on their own, which they were starting to do, just legislatively. It's just a lot better situation when they're not reintroduced. if they would have come on their own, which they were starting to do just legislatively. It's just a lot better situation when they're not reintroduced. Well, I'm sure I even heard weird stuff. Like, I'm not really sure where I heard this, but because you know how they're monogamous,

right? Like they always find a mate for life. I heard there was this one male that was like straying, You know, he's a little player in his area, obviously. My daughter went through this wolf phase. So I have kids 27 to 12. But she, during COVID, I don't know if you knew, the kids would go outside and howl every night at 8 o'clock. Oh, wow. No, that's so cool.

It was because they were so lonely, couldn't be around each other. But at eight o'clock, all the kids in the neighborhood, they would all go out and howl and you could hear them all over. Oh, that's so great. Oh, I know. And the kids had these really great howls too. And you could hear it echoing. It was their way of connecting. That's so neat. Yeah.

It's exactly what a wolf is doing, right? Yeah. That was a hard time for children. And so I thought that was a really neat thing. So tell me a little bit about yourself. So I guess I was very fortunate because I had a mother who believed in life after death, believed in reincarnation. And so those ideas got implanted in me really early. And she was kind of like the mother trace of our small little town. And so I went to a lot of funerals with her and I could see the people who had passed and they were, so it was, it just became

like so natural and she, she couldn't see him, but she would be like, is he here? And they were usually pretty funny, like kind of listening to these stories about them and then commenting, well, that didn't really happen or that's not how it was just very funny. So I grew up like just, yeah, with that sense that there's so much more than meets the eye sort of and she was really great also about making me understand that my superpower and all beings on the planet's superpower is our gut telling us if something is good or bad or you know right or wrong you know I sort of didn't have curfews. I had like, well, what do you think? Do you think you should go to this party tonight?

Do you think you should get in the car with those people? Like every animal can sense there's danger nearby and I need to either flee or freeze. I need to do something here. And so it was really great to grow up with that because I could see friends making mistakes and I would try to explain to them, like, aren't you feeling in your gut that this isn't the right guy for you or that he's not treating you well? And I was always kind of shocked that, you know, I think if you ignore that feeling and dismiss it and don't really listen to it. You forget that it's even there and you don't know how to tune into it anymore. So I'm so grateful that I had a mother that was constantly making that connection for me.

So lucky for that. Because I always say stuff like, I wish someone would have said, like, trust yourself, you know, instead of go to the books to learn how to birth a baby or, you know, like these instincts that we naturally have. Yeah. It's so important. And I think, you know, being a mother yourself, like I remember I had my first mommy and me teacher said, like, you know, your children better than anyone. If you feel like something's wrong and the pediatrician is dismissing you, don't let it go with that. Like keep pushing. Cause you're the only one that can advocate for them until they can speak on their own. So don't dismiss your own gut feeling telling you, boy, I just

don't think his sleep pattern is normal. There's something else going on here or whatever it is, but yeah, hugely helpful. That discernment that each of us have, I remember discovering it now and I felt like it was, it's a superpower. It really is the best one that we possibly have. Yeah. It's just natural in us. Like, like it was so like, oh my God, I have this power. I've like this yes or no within me. I have guidance, this inner compass that I can trust even needing validation outside of yourself, which is, I think a hard one for a lot of people. Yeah. You know, because then they're looking for other people to validate what they feel inside.

Yeah. I give people a lot, those crystal pendulums that you hold and you can ask yes and no questions. And I'm like, just start using it. And then at some point you're going to trust yourself. You're not going to need the pendulum anymore, but it's pretty wild how quickly it's like yes or no. And it's like, this is all coming from you. So you already know it. This is just like a tool to remind you that you know it. Yeah. Like an extension of your vision you know um also you have those dowsing rods oh those are so fun i just got some not so long ago and of course there's a lot of science behind this too i mean people have been using pools like that to find rivers to find water my partner was like yeah me and my dad used to always bring those with us fishing. I'm like, really?

Yeah. I bet that was woo woo. No, we were trying to find a well on our property and the well company was like having no luck. And every every time he drills, it's really expensive. Stone Mason that was working on near the property was like, this isn't a problem at all. I can make a stick in two seconds. And he exactly found four wells. Like it was so cool. He was trying to teach me how to do it. I don't know. Maybe I just wasn't good at, but he would, his stick would like bend seriously down. I wasn't, but I think you need to

practice a lot to get it right. Yeah. I mean, look at the indigenous cultures. It seems like we are kind of leaning into the things that they believed and taught and seeking. And when it comes to all kinds of things, medicine, some other practices like meditation and journeying, I became a huge drum journey believer in any time I need guidance. You know, I go to my dreams because I've received so much there. Yeah, so true. I had a black wolf in my dreams from the time, my earliest dreams. I don't know, I was probably three, four or five. And it was also sort of like my intuition, like it would show me things that would be a better path for me to take. He was always leading me and he would just look back every once in a while. So I mean,

if anyone ever asked me, who's your totem animal, I'd say a wolf, even though I'd never seen a wolf, didn't know a whole lot about wolves, but I knew that they touched my heart in some deep way. Then I became an environmental conservation consultant and the work wasn't as fulfilling as I wanted it to be. I was usually working for governmental agencies like EPA and Department of Energy and it just wasn't like soul fulfilling the way I wanted my career to be. And when we moved from Los Angeles to New York, I started hearing wolves like in my backyard and I'm asking all the new moms at the bus stop, like what's going on. And they're like, Oh, they're coyotes. And I'm like, Oh no, they're not coyotes. I know that I'm hearing wolves. They're not very many of them,

but I'm hearing them. Where are you? I'm trying to imagine. I'm an hour outside of New York North. Okay. All right. South Salem. And I went into the woods one day and there was an enclosure with two wolves in it and a trailer. And I knocked on the door and it was this beautiful young French girl. And she told me that she was, she's very famous now uh classical pianist she was the youngest person to ever graduate from um the paris conservatory and she was getting an album cover done by a photographer and he owned a wolf dog hybrid and she became really psychically connected to this animal she had never been able to have animals and always felt like her life would not be normal because she does like 200 concerts a year all over the world. So she could never have a family or like pets or anything. But this dog told her that like wolves were in deep trouble and they really needed help. And she thought, well, that's kind of perfect.

You know, I can open up some kind of center to save wolves and have other people run it. So, yeah, she opened this up and like, she hadn't even opened it when I was there. That's why no one knew anything about it. And she asked me if I wanted to help. And I felt like, Oh my God, like finally this is going to be fulfilling work for me. It's called the Wolf Conservation Center. It's nywolf.org. We have a mission to advance their survival of wolves by inspiring a global community

through education, advocacy, research, and recovery. So we work to recover the two most critically endangered wolf species, which were the red wolves. They go to North Carolina and the Mexican gray wolves, which go to New Mexico, Mexico, and Arizona. Both of these wolf species were down to single digits. In the 80s, those few animals that were left were brought into captivity. And they're in facilities like ours that get bred and released back to the wild. The Mexican gray wolves have been much more successful than the red wolves because the red wolf, the people in a few very wealthy people in North Carolina are seemingly stopping it. So it's so frustrating because the wolves that we have are

owned by the Fish and Wildlife Department. We have to go back and sue the Fish and Wildlife Department for not listening to the Endangered Species Act. So we do that. We advocate on their behalf. So if you go to our website, you can see like who, you know, what senators you need to write to because what bills are being out there being passed that you could make a comment about. We see about 30,000 people at our facility to educate them about how critical the role is that wills play in our ecosystems. And we have researchers, some scientists that are going around looking if there's more habitat that these animals could be reintroduced to. So it's been very fulfilling because we've

grown a lot. We are huge in social media because we put cameras into the different packs because they have to be hands-off so they don't get used to people because that would be the death of them when they're released. We have very little to do with those wolves we do like a once annual medical check but that's about it we get all of the deer that are killed in our roadways here they get thrown into their pens for them to eat and then besides we have like maybe 50 wolves right now and two of those are ambassador wolves. So you're guaranteed to see them. And they're gray wolves. They're not endangered.

They were born in captivity, so they have to remain there. And we use them to teach because no one would probably come to our center if they didn't get to see some wolves. So it's fun. And we have great programs. Camps and camping with wolves. Yeah, they're corpuscular. So they make the most noise between dusk and dawn. So it's really fun to sleep next to them

because you can hear, you know, all 50 wolves, different species all coming together to howl. It's just magical, truly magical. So yeah, I mean, it's exciting, exciting to do something that so fulfills my heart. And unfortunately, we need huge advocates and brave people and people who are willing to fight these systems above us. You know, so to save these animals who this is their land. Dogs are 98.9% wolves and most of us have dogs. And like, I mean,

it's just been, you know, from Little Red Riding Hood to them being associated with devils early on. I mean, they've just gotten a really bad public relations from day one. It's very hard to combat that. There's actually a group in Colorado called the Working Circle and they're working so hard. They're the first ones that have made some inroads with the ranchers and the hunters to try to help them understand what they can do to save their animals. Like for instance, every animal used to be wild. They knew what to do to keep big predators away. And cows used to, and sheep used to stay in a circle, have their infirm, their old, their young in the middle and all the strongest ones on the outside. I mean,

a wolf is going to see that formation and run the other way. I mean, that's not, there's nothing I can do with that formation. I need one to be on its own. And because they're allowed to just graze on our public BML lands, they look pretty good to a wolf. I mean, how is he supposed to know? Like, what's the difference between this deer and, you know, this cow? So I think the woman who runs the working circle has come so far because she started staying with ranchers and understanding that, yes, we're going to slaughter them one day, but until we do, we feel ultimate responsibility. And when you see, you know, one of your cattle ripped apart, it's horrifying. And so she's just doing everything she can, getting them to put

speakers out. Wolves don't like noises. They don't like flags, getting them to higher range riders, which used to be a common practice that there would be somebody in a horseback riding constantly around the range to keep them together she's lately doing this amazing research where i guess a lot of cattle are coming down from canada and they have different minerals and especially i think it's magnesium that's very low. And so, I mean, when we watch wolf behavior, you could tell like a whole pack would like stand on a ridge and look down at a bunch of cows and then all focus on one wolf or on one cattle. And no one could figure out looks the same to us. It's not injured. It's not particularly old or young. Why that one. And the studies came out that they are so different

in what they really need. They're not the healthiest for the area they've just been moved to. And the wolves are picking up like how dogs can pick up if someone, a cancer cell from a non-cancer cell, they're picking up that there's a weakness in that animal because they don't have the right magnesium or they don't have the right iron in them. So she's working with the ranchers to get them supplements so that they quickly habituate to where they've been moved to and get what they need. So they're just as strong as the other ones, which is incredible. And it's, you know, very advantageous for these ranchers to do this because it's cheaper than having an animal taken out. So it's yeah I'm hopeful I'm hopeful that we all

moved to a place of understanding that wolves have a very important role to play and certainly that video I don't know if you ever seen it how wolves change rivers that was done about the reintroduction yes I was about to ask you about that I mean that's a really powerful powerful video that I think just quickly shows the huge effects that they have on landscapes. Yeah, it blew me away, actually. And it just makes me so sad. I think that we have quickly came into this world and changed a lot of things for the ecosystem, you know, the plant, even, you know, I mean, look at the solar storms. I mean, you know, I hear scientists all say all the time, like 10 years ago,

we didn't worry about this kind of thing because our magnetic field was so strong. I mean, so many things in such a short amount of time. Yeah. I hope we go back to like, it seems like every native culture was so in tune and understood if something was out of balance, what to do, understood how to use the plants around them. And then we just wiped them out. And now we're like back at square one, trying to learn this stuff again. That was just so vital. Right. And so what happened? Well, I'm assuming, you know, that it was man that was getting rid of all of the wolves. You said that they were down to single digits. just very close related just no matter how much we breed we only had so much genetic material to work with like we're an unusual facility because we also educate and do research and and recovery

but the most of these wolves are kept in zoos that are part of these recovery programs and we get together we have these huge genetic algorithms of who should mate with who. So these wolves get flown all over the place and then they might not like the partner that you just put them with, you know, and it's great expense to be moving them and then waiting a couple of seasons to see if anything happens. So there's, yeah, a lot goes in to try to save an animal when it's brought to this point of near extinction. It breaks my heart too. Totally breaks my heart. You know, especially when you think my dogs are fricking spoiled as hell. The way we treat them as like our children. Right. I mean, they are like my children, man's best friend.

It changed a lot. Like even in like when I grew up, I would say mostly in our neighborhoods, the dogs lived outside. I mean, they hardly ever came inside. Mom and I just talked about this about cats. Yeah. And now they're on the sofas. Right. They're wearing clothes.

They're getting dental work. You know, I mean yeah there's a animal interpreters who I have worked with a few times and through her really truly have I really come to a different level when it comes to animals yeah it was just some of your podcasts with her they're great yeah I mean I and I and I really mean it when I've said it before that my sessions with her and communicating with my fur babies have been more special than even my own. And it's just because, you know, with your children, they can speak to you. You can, you know, understand each other. And I guess it is a little bit I do

have a son who's on the spectrum so I do you know kind of sometimes wish that I understood you know why he did that some of the things that he did but you know you do feel that way sometimes about your your animals you know like you need or why are you quiet this week? You know what I mean? This week. You know, what energies are you picking up? You know, what's going on? We had a lot of fires here. You know, how are animals affected even by that?

Right. How many animals would be returned to shelters or abandoned if they could have some insight into why the behavior is the way it is and what they could do to try to calm the animal down or leave its fears or whatever. And so I, you know, I've always enjoyed nature, especially the birds. I'm a bird lady. And he's also opened me up to a little bit to not just wonder and think it's so amazing, they're beautiful, but really opening myself up to actually, you know, communicate a little bit. You know, why do you visit me all the time? And I do feel that animals are always trying to like show me something, but I didn't know this until I became present with them. Right. As you say, right. If you're not sitting there trying to open yourself up to what message this might be, it's just lost on us.

Nature is such a wonderful teacher. I mean, like what has the, this journey for you, you know, what wisdom have they, have they spoke to your soul? Yeah. Like I was, so I wrote a novel called winter of the wolf and I think I wanted to write my whole life. And I kind of remember I was seven years old when I wrote a book and then illustrated it. And I waited for my parents cause they were out to dinner to get home. And I showed him it. And my dad was like, it's not a very good story and you're not a very good illustrator and writers don't make any money. And so even when I would get praised in like high school and college that your writing is really good and you have, you have a strong sense of this, you should do this. My dad's voice overrode all those voices every single time. And so I'm always like warning parents and, you know, just be careful of your

words because they're really powerful. And so I was like, you know, starting to think that I really wanted to write something about, I don't like inner tuition. I had all these ideas, but there wasn't any story that I had. And then my best friends found her son hanging when he was 12 years old. And it was horrifying for us because we both were very, her mother taught us psychic classes and, and she just kept coming back to me like, well, what did he do in his 12 years? That makes any sense. Like it, I get it. If you've done your mission here and you're,

you didn't need to spend a long life to get, but what did Brandon learn in like 12 years? And then I went to his funeral and it was just, you know, when it's a suicide, there's a lot of blame and there's a lot of guilt. And like everyone was saying to her, well, if he was, you know, depressed, why didn't you get him help? And why wasn't he on medication? And why wasn't he seeing anybody? And the truth was he was like a really happy, a lot of friends, well-adjusted boy. There was no reason to believe that he would take his life. And she truly, the mother truly believed he didn't take his own life. She's like, I know what it looked like, but I don't believe that that's what happened. And I was skating on a lake with some friends and I saw this deer that became embedded in

the lake. And for some reason, just looking into that doe's eyes and these beautiful like eyelashes that were all coated in ice, just like all of a sudden I could hear her son speaking to me. And he was like, this is your novel. And I'm like, what's to me. And he was like, this is your novel. And I'm like, what's my novel? And he's like, write about my story. And I'm sitting there like, but we don't even know what happened.

And he's like, start writing. It'll happen. So I did start writing this story loosely based on his life. And during the process of it, he came to me a lot and gave me ideas and things. And then his mother finally found out what happened. And I don't like tell anyone because it's the book's kind of a mystery, you know, other than to say that it wasn't a suicide as much as it looked like one. But my story is written through the sister and it was her like soul soulmate brother. She has two other brothers, but she never felt like she did with this brother who she felt like

she'd been on many lifetimes with. And her whole family is mourning in different ways, but they're moving on and she seems stuck and her best friend's trying to help her. And so it's, it's a lot about they do shamanic rituals. They're doing all these things to try to understand what happened to him. But she's also just really listening to her inner voice, which is saying, you know, he did not commit suicide. So you're on the right track. So she's interviewing people and she's doing all these different things, but it was such a, just a wonderful, rewarding experience to kind of put all the things that I believe so strongly in you know intuition and reincarnation and you know not judging people because the the sister kind of

is judging that she thinks her brothers have moved on very quickly and that that's not right like just not judging other people for whatever need they need to go through to mourn somebody. And that you kind of quickly try to move from grief to growth. So she's really trying to remember everything he taught her. And he was really into Inuits, a native culture in Alaska. And so she was remembering how many lessons that he had taught her about Native Americans and how we just have to keep looking for signs and listening to nature as much as we can. And so she starts coming to the feeling that he didn't live long, but he taught me a lot. Yeah, it was an extraordinary experience to just like

let go because I've never heard someone from that's passed on communicate with me. There was a bit of when you let one person in a bunch of people come in and i kept thinking that they were supposed to be characters and so i'd give them pages and then realize you have nothing to do with the story you need to get out that's so great i could see that happening yes that happened to me wow yeah because when true and they're like she's listening let's go see what a beautiful thing you could do for your friend too yeah she said you know when i'd finished it and sent it to her she was like that was like the his first birthday anniversary that

i didn't spend a week in bed. You made me realize a lot of different things, even though it wasn't my story exactly. There was a lot I needed to hear. And I see that book being so good for so many people, you know, people who have experienced that, you know, and who hasn't experienced loss and who hasn't experienced grief. And if you haven't, then you've never loved. But also the relationships between siblings, it seems. Got an email the other day from a girl who was in Zimbabwe and she was like, I read your book and I just want to tell you that it really helped me dealing with my grief with a

brother who passed away. And I've been just like nine months, basically almost unfunctioning. And I listened to your book and I have such a new perspective on things. And I'm like, how did you hear about my book? And she was like, I went to go by women who run with wolves and it popped up that you might also like this book which i find like that book is like it's sold millions and millions of copies and i don't know how i got connected so years ago i had a good friend who her daughter unalived herself. And then her other daughter, two years later, got in a car accident and died. So prior to her oldest daughter dying, dealing with her sister's suicide was having a hard time. And she realized that there was all of these people going around and, you know, they bring

these boxes to the families, you know, there's all these little organizations set up but there's nothing for siblings and oftentimes siblings are forgotten it's like the parents are getting all of this love and sure everyone cared but there was no special box for a sibling so she wanted to make one but she didn't get to do it before she also passed on. And so her mom called me one day and asked if I would help with a logo and if I would come and meet with some of the other mothers who were all mothers of children who had died of suicide. And so they named it Sibling to Sibling. They put together boxes. And unfortunately, we just locally even were having so many people who were dealing with this, especially in the high schools. But then it went bigger. And so now it's more national. So they actually passed it on

to a bigger organization for them to take care of it. Because it was, unfortunately, I'd say, you know, had grown. That's awesome. And so I'm definitely passing, you know, this on to them. I personally would love to buy your book for two of them who I became close with. Well, thank you. Because I think we are really bad at dealing with death. You know, it's going to happen. It's still part of life. And if you can bring, you know, believe in reincarnation, that

helps a lot. But we're very bad at just continuing to keep them alive. I have a quote in the beginning of my book from Banksy, although I'm not so sure he's the first one that said this, but they say you die twice, one time when you stop breathing and a second time, a bit later on when somebody says your name for the last time. And there should be never a last time, right? I mean, I think whatever ritual you can get going in your family, because I know, you know, my girlfriend who the book loosely based on, she started reaching out to a lot of her son's friends to invite them over and like, tell me some of the things I don't know about my son. Like, you know, what was an adventure that you did? And she was keeping them all in a book so she can keep remembering. And then she was having parties on his birthday and inviting

those friends back. And you're like, just the only way he's going to stay with me and I can keep learning from him is to learn more about who he was and what he was here doing and like how he changed people's lives and touched you in whatever way. It's like, it's just so critical. I feel like we just treat, it's like, oh, don't talk about that person. Don't, don't mention that. Another thing that we should have gained from the indigenous culture that lived on this land, because they much saw it as a transition to be celebrated right so true i was with one of our ambassador wolves who was kind of my favorite um and we had

to put him to sleep because he got a bad illness and was pretty sick and i was lying down in his den with him when the vet came to give him his shot and i was just like losing it crying my eyes out and he said he put his arm on me and he said do you know how privileged you are to lie with a wolf as it takes its last breath and I was just like oh my god like I am very privileged I'm privileged to do what I do to be so close to an iconic species to do something I love like yes and this will it wasn't young young so it reached so many people yeah yeah and you're doing so much for for their entire species god what an honor and I bet you were felt just so very humbled and you know it's funny.

I just told my mom this few days ago, my earliest dream was a reoccurring dream of a wolf. Wow. And it was a ginormous wolf. And I thought back on this dream after a few spiritual experiences, because I, in my first, so I took some shaman classes in my first shaman journey. I was there to meet an ancestor of mine, a real ancestor from the 1600s who was known as a great medicine man. And I wanted to learn, or actually by the advice of a medium, they said, you need to learn how to communicate with him. And I was like, how's that? And they're like, the way he communicated, you need to go and learn how to do the drum journey, you know, and do the things that he did. And I was like, okay, I'm

going to do it. And so everyone else is told to like, you know, find their spirit animal when they go into this journey. And I'm like, no spirit animals for me. I'm looking for this, you know, grandfather of mine. So I get there and of course I see a hawk and I'm like, no, I don't want a hawk. I want a man. So I'm following this talk and everything happened so fast, kind of. And he brings me into like this clearing

and this wolf comes out of this dense area and I'm thinking again like another animal like come on I'm calling on my ancestor and the wolf stands up and became a man oh and as soon as he had, I hear the comeback beats of my teacher calling me back. And I'm like, no, I just got here. I couldn't wait to go home. It's like I need a drug, like immediately. And it was just one of the coolest things of my life. And I didn't even really understand that there is such thing as shape shifter.

Yeah, it's pretty divine. Yeah. So in my book, the boy, you can believe it or not, is turns into this wolf that starts showing up in her life physically. I mean, he's actually there because I think there is this belief that you can turn into anything that you want to. And if you think something's going to relate to someone more than another animal, that's what you choose. Yeah. Yeah. And actually that's how I feel about the Hawks. I have more like close encounters with Hawks than most people. And I have caught pretty amazing things and it all happened right after my dad passed and he used to call his truck the hawk and you know yeah and he loved you know big birds and nature and stuff he brought us to colorado because he loved the mountains but yeah i even caught a hawk totem an actual spirit one time they're like these

other hawks and you see this totem of one come out of the sun. It's on my TikTok. It's pretty remarkable. Oh my God. I had to get over quite a bit of fear when it came to nature. I, you know, there's this place when you're a child where it's, it's just, it's your scenery, it's everything, you know? And then you get so busy and then all of a sudden you're afraid of a raccoon or a snake. And I definitely would be afraid of a wolf. However, when you do become present with them, the fear starts to go away. Yeah. Pretty magical stuff out there.

I know. And your book sounds so very amazing. I really appreciate you coming on to share. Sure. It was. Yeah. Thank you so much for all that you do, you know, for the wolves too. It was really lovely to meet you. Thanks for inviting me on. Tell everybody where they can find you though, and where they can get your book. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, kind of anywhere. So you can go on my website and go from there, which is marthahundthandler.com. Again, the Wolf Center is nywolf.org. Yeah, those are the best ways to reach me. All right. Thanks so much, Martha. Nice to meet you.

Thanks for listening to Sense of Soul Podcast. And thanks to our special guests for joining me. If you want more of Sense of Soul, check out my website at www.mysenseofsoul.com where you can work with me one-on-one or help support Sense of Soul Podcast by donating to my coffee fund. Thanks for listening.