Senses Working Overtime with David Cross - John Hodgman

Episode Date: March 7, 2024

Catch all new episodes every Thursday. Watch video episodes here.Guest: John HodgmanSubscribe and Rate Senses Working Overtime on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and leave us a review to read on a future episode!Follow David on Instagram and Twitter.Follow the show:Instagram: @sensesworkingovertimepodTikTok: @swopodEditor: Kati SkeltonEngineer: Nicole LyonsExecutive Producer: Emma FoleyAdvertise on Senses Working Overtime via Gumball.fm.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a Head Gum Podcast. I'm not going to. And you're welcome to use the headphones, although I'm not going to. Uh, okay. Then I won't ruin the... It would look weird. It would look weird. It would either look like I have some sort of super hearing or you have a disability. Yeah, you're too loud. I'm sorry, I need to wear. And also, do you prefer John or Jonathan or John Hodgman? I'm not done.

John Hodgman or Johnny or Johnny Hodgman or Johnny Hodgman or Johnny H or Johnny T. But I'll give you a Johnny T. What's your middle name? Kellogg. True story. What is the story? That's my middle name. That's how much my story.

And I know this sounds like a fodder for every hacky standup you saw in the 80s, but what is a grape nut? Folks! They're not grapes. They're not nuts. What is it? Do you guys know over there? They're like wheat byproduct. Oh, is it a wheat berry? Extruded wheat. I think it's like extruded wheat pulp. I know Flavored with malt. I know technically it's fine, but I don't like the word extruded attached to any food item

It's gonna be making a lot of appearances in this conversation That's that's your thing. That's what you know, we agree to disagree Let's put is what is a grape nut? What is it saying? They're made from wheat and barley. Also sometimes called grain nuts. There's subtle sweetness and crumbly texture. I'm sorry. When are they called grain nuts? Who has ever called them grain nuts? How it's a... I don't know.

Honey, can I have some grape nuts? Do you mean grain nuts? No. Grape nuts. Well, they're also grain nuts. See here, this goes right to it. Listen to this. Grape nuts. Are you getting this? Yeah, we're getting this. Okay, good. Grape nuts is a brand of breakfast cereal made from flour, salt, and dried yeast, developed in 1897 by CW Post. A former patient and later competitor of the 19th century Brexit food innovator Dr. John Harvey Kellogg. How about that?

The Grape Nuts. Well, there's a movie. 19th century Brexit food innovator Dr. John Harvey Kellogg. How about that? The grape nuts. Well, there's a movie. There's a, well, let's get the Ben Affleck and Damon on this one. They did the air thing. Let's do, so there's rivals. So they're, at first he's a patient. At first he's, my maybe ancestor saved this dude's life and then he tries to shank him

with some grape nuts. Wow. I think everyone would agree though. Well, I would say in the end, whether it's karma or what happened, the Kellogg name reigns supreme in the breakfast cereal world. I agree with you. Everyone hates grape nuts. That's not true.

You actually said you like them. I like them, but most people don't care for them because... Listen, I'm trying to teach my daughter good grammar and good... So it's not everybody, is it? Well, grammar. I'm trying to teach you well, grammar. That's the grammar that you get from under the bar. Interesting. Is this happening? Are we doing it now? Oh, yeah, yeah. We started. I told... As soon as I said, and I'll say this every time, as soon as the guest walks through the door, I don't care whether he can't see us or anything,

or even, you know, we have to go pump up the audio and post, and it sounds weird. That's when it starts. That's when it starts. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. So welcome to the... I guess I give retroactive consent for your recording and publishing my words. Well, I think it's implied legally. I don't think you'd have much to stand. One thing I will say, I think it's great. I'm not doing it for my wife. I honestly was a little concerned about why.

Because you mentioned that this was the first episode you were recording. And while I'm not saying that our Kellogg versus post-grape nut material is, you know, going to win a webby or anything, this was a situation where I was like, why are we not recording this? Right. Let's save this for the air because podcasts are so thin to begin with. Yes, they are. You can't afford to waste a good middle name story. Yeah. That's why that's exactly why I'm a professional. I've been doing this. I think it's like let's we're gonna get some gold right just in the you know finding out what

bronze pewter. Yeah, you get some pewter just in the coming in part. I like a grape nut though, even though that guy tried to destroy my family. Which leads me to my first question. The Not Jonathan, sorry. Your first question was, what do I call you? Right. Not Jonathan. Not Jonathan? Is that like a stage name?

Like it's not Jonathan. It's not Jonathan. You know him as Not Jonathan. And you have a story behind Not Jonathan? No, my name is John, J.O.H.N. period. That's it. John is a, J.O.H.N. period. John is a name and Jonathan is a name. Right.

And mine is not Jonathan. It doesn't sound that funny. Have you opened it? Is that your opener? It's something I'm working on. Okay. When do you think you'll have it finished? Well, it's been 52 years.

So maybe never. Now, here's a question that's not my first official question. No, let's stay unofficial. How, when, do you remember how we met? No. Oh, wow. No. Shit, really. I remember being at an event, being at a show,

and then going to a party afterward. Super Bowl halftime. Something like that. I think it was one of the Bill Wasick, Eugene Merman, early stand-up shows that they would do above Arlene's grocery or something. Wow. Okay.

And I said to someone, is that David Cross? I think at the after party or something. And that person said, no, but it looks like him. And that's, for some reason, that's locked in as my meeting you. So it sounds like you. But I don't remember how we first met. I mean, I remember the first time I remember interacting with you, you were offstage at Bumbershoot. Okay. 2008? It could have been then or maybe even a little earlier.

Yeah, yeah. But that was back when Lisa Langang was taking pity on me and putting me in shows at Bumbershoot. So yeah, we started doing that in 90... So, this was after my experience with the Daily Show started, which was 2006. Oh, okay. Because prior to that, I was not someone you would ever book on a comedy show. Right. That's when people got the impression that I should...

And what brought you to New York? I moved to New York in 1994 on the instruction of a person whom I'm now married to. My plan had been to return to my ancestral home of Brookline, Massachusetts, which I had always thought would be a nice place to live because I had experience living there. Sure. Moneyed white, upper class, moneyed white people. I thought I would go back and work at the Coolidge Corner Movie House where I worked in high school and then during summers in college.

And then I was playing with the idea. I went to Yale University, which is an accredited for your college in Southern Connecticut, in a town called New Haven. Yeah. I know New Haven. I actually lived there briefly when I was young. I lived everywhere briefly, but I was there and then continue to stop in and go to either Frank Pepe's or Sally's.

And did you, I mean, did you have a preference? Because they taste the same to me. Yeah, I mean, I got to say Frank Pepe's. Yeah. Because, first of all, Sally's doesn't have, to the best of my knowledge, the summer pie, the one that's tomato, like chunks of fresh tomato and garlic. And they yeah, yeah, yeah. And they only have it for a couple months, but man, it's amazing. I've never had that.

It's really, really good. And of course, the clam. The clam pizza is something. Yeah, so. Clams, light clam pizza. Yep. Yeah, I was living in New Haven, which was very affordable. I had finished college and I was thinking,

maybe this will be it for me. Because I don't want to go home and work at the movie theater because that's the past. I'll stay here in New Haven and continue to work at the video rental store because that's the future. Yeah. And I was... I'm surprised you're not in streaming. I was living the way this is heading. Permanent disease. But the woman to whom I am now married had moved to New York and she said, you are going to do this too.

Okay. Now, just for the sake of continuing... I went back a little bit further than you and... No, no, not just in this conversation, but life. You can shorten that to say wife. There's a shorter word than the whole thing about... Well, we're not married then. I see.

We are married now. Right. 24 spectacular years as of September 25th. But you've been married for 30, interesting. I know. Interesting. Yeah, well, it takes a little while to work into spectacular. It does. You know what I mean? Well, sometimes you start at spectacular, then it know. Interesting. Yeah, well, it takes a little while to work into spectacular.

It does. Well, sometimes you start at spectacular, then it dips. Yeah, you get down into like... And then you have an open marriage and then things get even worse before they get better. As it happens, all of those things had happened before we were married. Oh, okay. Because we met in high school. Oh, gosh. And started dating in high school. Oh, gosh. Yeah. And started dating, I guess you would say, the summer after she graduated high school,

and then we went to different colleges. Oh, boy. So we were on again, off again. So how many people have you ever had sex with? One. Right. Okay. Any curiosity? Yes. I like how you sort of thought about it, but

not really. You were thinking more about how do you say what you're going to say, but the answer was immediate in your head. Well, it was almost incredulous. Yes, of course. Of course. Marriage is about simply maintaining curiosity. Is it? So the point I was making, got me a little, I believe I'm getting a little flushed. The vapors. Oh dear. I mean, so we we were on again off again during college, but by the time she had finished college and moved to New York, by the time I had finished, we were on again. Right. And so she was like...

Do you know how many people... There's only one person you're ever going to have sex with in your life, so if you wanted again, you should move to New York. Right. Boy, that's kind of shitty. That was not the term she used. Do you know how many people she's had sex with? I think so. Yeah.

But that was not a question that I ever asked or would care to. Oh, you should. You should go home and find out. Then call us. Then call us back here. I read Reddit a lot. And I am aware of how common a conversation about body count is between young couples these days and boy, it always ends up being a really fun conversation. Not good.

Not good. No. You know what I found out? And I don't like to use the term wife. Why? It's biblical. Because I just, I feel, I, you know... It constrains you?

Her. Like, I mean, yeah, she's my wife and I'm her husband. But you know, she's a whole human being, not defined by her relationship to me. So, yeah, I say... I didn't pass any judgment when I heard it. No, no, no. But you could say wife. Yeah.

And as it happens on my own podcast, the Judge John Hodgman podcast available through Maximum Fun Network every Wednesday. That's interesting. I haven't been asked to be on that. Well, we don't really have guests. We just interview non-performers who have disputes with each other. Oh, right. Yes. Yes. I should know that. So it's not like we have, you know, you're welcome to, I'd be thrilled. No, no, no, it's all right. It's called the Judge John Hodgman podcast, available every Wednesday from maximum fun.org on Wednesdays. And I got into the habit of saying awkwardly, when referring

to her, my wife, who is a whole human being in her own right, which is quite a mouthful, but when I stand by, but then I moved to New York and I stayed and I worked at a literary agency Really doing what in what capacity? First I was the receptionist. Mm-hmm Then I was an assistant to an agent named Susan Ginsburg. Mm-hmm, and then I thought that that would be my career and I started representing clients. Oh, wow. I had no idea. Yeah. It was, you know, I represented, you know, it was like friends in New York who were writers. So, like my friend Darren Strauss is a novelist and I sold his first book, which was about Chang'an-ang Bunker, the conjoined twins who, you know,

the term Siamese twins coined for. How has that guy not been canceled? Darin? Yeah. Or Chang'Nang? Chang'Nang, with the kind of racist... Do I say guys or guy? Is it plural or...? They're two people. Yeah, okay. There were two people and they married sisters.

Yeah. I remember from the Ripley's Believe It or Not... The Ripley's Believe It or Not. Yeah. Here's a side note. Until I have always had a problem taking things literally, and I have multiple examples where I don't understand something because it's not meant to be literal,

but when I was a kid, and that was in the Sunday funnies, you know the Ripley's believe it or not, right? I thought for years until I was an adult. I thought it meant That you could you could choose to believe it or not That you that it might be made up uh-. And maybe you were supposed to guess. Yeah, that's for real. Because I took it took it literally. And I have so many of them. You whispered to yourself as you were looking through it, like,

believe, believe, not believe, not believe, right. Stamp, not believe, send it back. Send it send it into Ripley's. Maybe maybe I'll win a box of grape nuts. And I didn't understand the joke. I didn't understand why it was funny. That's true for. Well, there's a different thing of.

I thought you were going to talk about the scourge of non funny things in the funny pages. Oh, God. Like your Prince Valiant. Yeah. Oh, no. Oh, Chaff or. Who is the Ranger? The cowboy Mark? Mark Trail? Mark Trail. Yeah.

Yeah. All the adventure ones. It's boring. The apartment 3B. Yeah. Actually, that one was kind of sexy. That was how young John Hodgman got curious, if you know what I mean.

Three women living together in apartment 3B. Very sexy. Oh, wow. They were always dating and getting into scrapes. Ugh. It was like 3's company. It was like 3's company. But different. 3B, very sexy. Oh, wow. They were always dating and getting into the scrapes. Oh, it's like 3's company. It was like 3's company. But different. But the other one you were talking about, not Ripley's, believe it or not, there was something else. No, I was going to say, and it is another example of taking things literally and not understanding, not seeing

past it. I've numerous examples and they're worse as I get older because then they're more not seeing past it. I've numerous examples and they're worse as I get older because then they're more kind of heady things. But when I was a kid, for a long, long, long, long, long time, I did not get the joke, what's worse than finding a worm in your apple? Finding half a worm? Because I would just go, I would think, well, no, I'd rather have half a worm than a whole worm. That's less worm. Yeah, it's less worm. Without understanding, oh no, the idea is that you ate it. Yeah.

That you... I just couldn't see past. I still have an issue, but yeah. Yeah, you would think less worm is better. Yeah. So, what I'm telling you though is literally true. I believe it. I did work at a literary agency.

I think that's... Literally. I think that's... In all senses of the word. It actually happened and it was related to literary stuff. Sure. I represented Bruce Campbell, the actor. Oh yeah.

On his first book. And I thought that that was going to mean what I was doing because I liked writing and creating, but that's work. Right. So why not get someone else to do that work and then give them some ideas and then take 15% of what they make. Smart. Oh, I mean, taking 15% of what people, the people who are doing the work, that's just a brilliant, brilliant thing to me. It's really amazing how many people get in on that scam. But what I realized in order to do it, you do have to be shameless and you also have

to be comfortable with confrontation because that's what negotiation is. And I could not handle negotiation. Can you go back to shameless? How did you give me an example of how you... Well, I'm overstating it, but like for me to go to a publisher and say, my client needs $100,000 advance for this book. Even now I'm thinking like, oh, it's too much. Or them to come and say, we wanna give you $10,000. And for me to go back and go, no, $20,000 or I hang up. Like to me, that's not shamelessness, but it's-

Well, that's the computation you were talking about. Confidence, I guess. False competence, because you didn't- I didn't, I was and am still an only child not versed in confrontation of any kind. And it made me very very nervous. And I also felt like yeah, there is a little bit of a shell game element like I will take 15% of your income forever just because I made a few phone calls on your behalf? Sure.

On the other hand, there are lots of agents and managers who really devote themselves to the creative process. Absolutely, yeah. I would have been very happy doing that. I just didn't like making the phone calls. I get it. I'm not, that's not my thing either. Well, I want to go back to, you said you were an only child.

So do you know, do you have any idea if there were going to be other kids, what their middle names would have been? Oh, that's a really interesting question. I don't think my parents ever had plans to have another child. But you know, happy accident. So it sounded like it came up. Right. Right. Right.

So they had had sex a second time. It kind of boggles the mind. Wow. You don't have to have sex to have a kid. What's that? You don't have to have sex to have a kid. Oh, a few. Yeah.

What a relief. Yeah, let your mom and dad know ASAP. Yeah, if they had adopted another child, well, I would hope they would consult me, first of all. Well, he could have come into a tube and, you know, I guess that sex sort of. But you know what I mean? Yeah, there are possibilities there. Yeah. Well, I mean, the other family names, Kellogg is a family name from my grandfather's side. And he went back, Hodgman went And he went back, Hodgman went lots of Yankee, you know, white Anglo-Saxon Protestants in Massachusetts, New England, and Lewiston, Maine and stuff. Shivello was my grandmother's name from Italy, Northern Italy. Callahan was my mom's maiden

name. But she was her grandfather was German. It's kind of like white European mutt. So maybe... Benoni was the name of a preacher in my... That's a good preacher name. In my grandfather's family. So maybe Annihizer Bush would have been a good middle name for another kid, another Hodgman.

Maybe, I wanna say Toucan Sam. Well, that's a mascot. To keep it in the Kellogg's family. I think that's a Kellogg's one, Toucan Sam or... Oh, I mean, they got a monopoly. Snap, Crackle, and Pop. I mean, come on, Kellogg's. Snap, Crackle, Pop, Hodgman. There you go. Well, I mean, isn't there an antitrust thing? They monopolized. But I can't think of a good mascot that isn't... That's the thing Post never had was mascots. No, sorry. I believe they had sugar bearer. Right? Yeah, sugar bearer. That's right. He was cool. Yeah. He was cool.

And that was also the name of the pimp on Starsky and Hutch or almost. They had to go back. Did they have to change it? Yeah, they had to change it. Yeah. Yeah, no, I don't know. But yeah. And if I were a girl, I might have been named Jane after my mom's sister. Well, that's boring. So, John, I'm forgetting. But I am an only child. Unless the payoff of your first question is, do you remember when we met is, we met in bassinets in the hospital because we're twins separated at birth. Well, John, I have some exciting news for you. Hi, little David Cross here.

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to do the math for you. That's half. No, so the premise of this podcast, it's a thin premise, but it's just- Hey, it's a podcast. Yeah, it's just a jumping off point to have a conversation, which we, because we're old friends, jumped right into. And this almost isn't even necessary, but I feel obligated because of the title, since it's working over time. I see it there. Yeah, I like that. Very nice. It's a cool. It's, art. So, I'm just going to ask you a couple questions. Again, I think this is unnecessary at this point, but I mean, I feel this is the first

show. We're done. Not that this will air first. I don't know. Oh, okay. No. Probably I'm going to guess these guys are going to want the Obama one to go first. Is that right?

That would be a big launch. Yeah. That would be a big launch. We're going to do Obama on the fourth. So, I'm assuming Obama first. I have followed Obama before. Have you? Yes.

Were they aware that you were following him? They left a door open. Yeah. But What happened? The 2009 Radio and Television Correspondents Awards dinner back when people thought, I should do comedy. They invited me to do comedy. When he left the stage, did he go, follow that motherfucker? Basically.

In the past, the comedian would go on and then the president would go on. Sure. That's how it should be, I would think. But I think that... If the president gives this... But I had to follow the president of the United States. He decided he wanted to go first. Because and it had nothing to do with me.

I think that there's a White House correspondence award sooner. It happened and I don't remember the situation but it was just like they made a decision like we don't want to have the president be responsible for anything the comedian said. From mopping up your mess. Yeah, exactly. Cleaning up your mess. This is how the president come and do the thing.

So the president gives us important, interesting, weighted speech. And funny. Funny. Like he was funny. But he's got good writers, right? He's got good writers right he's got good writers and then And now ladies and gentlemen welcome to stage John Hodgeman you know him as the PC and I don't have his name, but anyway here he is

But yes, so anyway, you're talking about the premise Yes, which is The five senses. Yes. See here, touch, taste, smell. Yep, I agree with you. Um. That tracks. Well, you know, there's been some issues with the UN.

And yeah. I mean, speaking of the senses and our perception of reality, some of us live in a non-shared reality at this point. They might. That is true. So, I'm going to ask you what is... I hope you're prepared for this. It doesn't matter if you are or not. What is the best thing you've ever touched. Oh, best sense of touch.

Oh, I'm going to work through some options and then you can tell me what you think. Keep it clean. Okay. Hang on a second. Let me go back to the drawing board. The two things that came to mind immediately in terms of touch are, you know, like our children are now adults. We have two children and they are now out of the house and out in the world. So basically, I'm just walking around the streets of Park Slope seeing all these kids and crying. So I really do miss kissing them on the head. That's a good one.

That also involves smell. Sure, yeah. Not taste though. I'm not leaking them. Well, it's bound to leave a bit of a residue. But yeah. Well, then the other touch, like sense of touch that came to mind is swimming in really cold water.

Yeah. We spend, you know... I'll just say your main... Yeah, we spend a bunch of the year in Maine. And it's, you know, going on vacation in Maine is not exactly going on vacation in Maine. It's a series of existential trials as Maine tries to eject you from it or life. And one of the things you do in Maine is go swimming, which is walk into the water screaming because it's very, very cold. And

I've now perfected my, there are either two ways to go in, three. One is you jump in off of something. Right. And just take the hit. Yep. The other is you walk in just up to your genitals. Yep. And then spend about four days debating, are you going to go further?

Right. Because your genitals have, that's where it really starts. They crawl right back up in you. Yeah, yeah, I mean, the only reason you get to go in deeper is that the water's trying to find your genitals. You know. But that's when it really gets real.

But you're feeling that. And what's the third way? The third way is kind of like jumping in, but it is walking at an even pace into the water like you are the creature from the black lagoon who has been heartbroken and I've turned your back on the world of the surface and you just walk in to the ocean to die or whatever. It's the classic kind of fill your pockets with stones and walk in and say goodbye. Exactly.

You say goodbye to life behind you and that is what it feels like is that you are saying goodbye to life behind you because you are suddenly and immersed in extreme discomfort and pain. I have only had one experience in the main waters. I went to York Beach. Southern Maine. Southern Maine. I have only had one experience in the Maine waters. I went to York Beach. Southern Maine. Southern Maine. Yeah. Okay, if you want to get cocky about it, sure. It was... No gate keepie is what I wanted to say. So that's pussy water. It's definitely warmer. How much warmer is it? You'll find out. I have nothing but admiration for the folks who can go in that cold water. I've done it a couple times and it's not my thing.

And I love swimming. I was a water baby and I was swimming very early and I'm a good swimmer. But you grew up in the south where swimming is nice. Yeah, yeah, true. But I also, you know, I grew up all over the place too, you know, I had, you know, certainly... You've been to a lot of beaches, you've been to a lot of lakes, a lot of oceans. John, I've been to a lot of beaches, man. Yeah, you swim a lot of waters.

Swim a lot of waters. When you go in and, you know, your body is rejecting what's happening so hard. And then you don't die and then you adapt to it. I can't. I don't. There's a huge endorphin rush that happens. It's really great. I mean, I do know, I know the sensation because I used to go, when I lived in the East Village, I would go to the 10th Street Bads all the time.

Right. Yeah, yeah. And they have that, you get a plaza. Yeah. Yeah. And you get, you're in the steam room and it is hot. That's the hottest, I've been to a ton of them and that's the hottest one for you. Yeah. I think it is. To be sitting next to a furnace having a man hit you with oak leaves. Well, they're, first of all, they're... Who came up with like this? Yeah, that's medicine.

It, you know what, this is for real. All right. I would do this and I, you know, you, you, half All right. I would do this and you know, you, half of it, you're laying down face down, you know, that little weird pad thing, they keep pouring the water and before I would, I think I can count on one hand the amount of times I've asked for the water, you know? Cause usually they do it every few minutes and I would always think that or imagine in a sense

that I was in a POW camp in Vietnam and like, I can do this, I can do this, I can get through this. Right. Knowing that full well, it's not a POW. In fact, I'm paying for the privilege of having this torture but But then you know you go jump into the cold pool, right? which is extremely cold right and They always had the different guys over the years but I Don't know if you experienced this guy. He was

He was there for a while. He's very short, stocky, ultimate kind of Russian Jew, big, big brush, short. He was short, but big. I mean, a massive guy. And I, you know, he's like, okay, now you go to pool. And I've done it a bunch of times. So I did it.

And I went, I kind of jumped in and you know You have that immediate like oh my god, Jesus, you know And then you I go out far enough so that I can't just walk back up Yeah, I have to be in there for a few seconds. Yeah, and he comes over And he puts this massive claw on my shoulder He's huge right and he and he's like squeak sque, not squeezing hard, but holding me there. And he goes, you took me, yes. Ah!

And I go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do I do I do go under I mean I go and I do the thing I'm not in there for more exhilarating feeling and it does it is it creates it like there's chemical stuff that happens and You know, we have our friend Molly goes swimming every day all winter long Not swimming but she goes in yeah, and I come out again as a therapeutic. I admire it. I just don't. But for me, I would never do that. Yeah. But for me in the summer, it's not only the physical head rush, but there's also just this reminder that like, oh,

yeah, you can be extremely comfortable, but you will adapt. And I'm someone who does not like transitions in life, such as getting up and walking across the room or whatever. Like I like inertia and going into the water and remembering, you know, you can go through a period of discomfort and then it's wonderful. Like it's going to be great, even though there's a period of discomfort

is sort of metaphorically helpful for me. Yeah, a lot of it is... It's a fucking hot answer to your question, honestly. It's mental, you know. It's like better than kissing my children. It's kind of on the nose. Yeah. Sort of almost literally on the nose. You'd kiss them on the nose? No my children. It's kind of on the nose. Yeah. Sort of almost literally on the nose.

You'd kiss him on the nose. No, but it's like the ocean on the nose. You shove your nose like when you're kissing your children on their head, your nose gets a little smushed. One time my children, when they were little, where they had a lemonade stand outside our apartment in Park Slope, I'm really doxing myself. And are you still at the same place? Street apartment between 7th and 8th

Avenus. Come on down. Oh, that's... I used to buy heroin there. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's how we first met. So my children were doing this lemonade stand outside our apartment building. You would be the most awesome heroin dealer. Yeah, like... Nobody would ever suspect it. You know, maybe this is my new career because I need one. The older I get, the more I find myself, why did it be more intentional about the way I live,

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because they were little, relatively little. So I was out there just making sure that, sure, everything was going fine. They weren't overcharging. Right. They weren't fucking up people's change or whatever. So I think it's interesting that your concern was for the consumer, not for them, for the kids.

It was more about they don't rip these people off. Well, I was getting 15% of what they made, so I had to make sure that they were charging the right amount. You got to teach them early how this business works. I needed to get my big out of this. But I was looking out for creeps, right? And then this guy kind of was a little creepy. This is a big, tall guy.

South slope, man. He had no children with him or just by himself. Just kind of standing off the side and looking at the lemonade stand action and my kids kind of chuckling and smiling to himself. And I noticed that he was holding a lit cigarette behind his back, like, which somehow hiding that he was smoking. Yeah.

Just go ahead and smoke, dude. You're on this, like, this is the even weirder thing. And I'm like, am I going to have to, I don't like confrontation. Am I going to have to talk to this? I'm like, have to save my children. I mean, I guess I got to have to, I don't like confrontation. Am I going to have to talk to this? Am I going to have to save my children? I mean, I guess I've got to wait until I say my children. I suppose I would. And plus, you know, there's my 15% in this too.

And then I realized, oh, that's the actor Vincent D'Onofrio. So he had every reason to be scared. I was just like, oh, no, he's just being Vincent D'Onofrio. Right. Like, okay, I get it. He's on the spectrum. He's just D'Onofrian. Okay.

You know what I mean? He's pulling a D'Onofrio. He's just doing a D'Onofrio. It's what we call it in the business. Yeah. I mean, yeah, he's just a weirdo, right? Yeah. Is he complete?

Well, no. Is he a monster? I don't know. No, no, no. Not at all. I think he's... I think he's a reputation of just being kind of an oddball. He's he's odd in the, you know, conventional sense of but I've worked with him before I actually ran into him in the in the atomkins Square Park one time.

Where was one of those odd things? Were you looking at children? Yeah, we were looking at cigarettes. And he started a conversation with me. I think, oh, you know what? I was in a coffee shop across from the park. It was back when I lived in the East Village. And it was one of those things where I, you know,

he just started a conversation. And I just remember it was a hot, humid day, like sticky, one of those summer days. And I had gone in to get a nice coffee and he starts- Denofrium? Just pulling a denofrium. Yeah.

And then I was like, oh wait, he must have a very sharp memory because we worked together, but I didn't even put that together until he started. And when I say like, it wasn't like an introduction kind of thing. It wasn't like, hey, we worked together, hey, David or whatever, he just started into a conversation. And the whole time you're going, oh, that's Vincent D'Onofrio. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I was very excited to see him. I was like, oh, that's cool. Yeah. Obviously, I rushed him to the head of the line. Oh, did you? Don't charge Mr. Dinofrio, kids.

And how did he react? What's that? Did he tip well? No, no, no, I wouldn't take his money. Oh. No. I mean, that was good. It got us on page six.

Oh, great. Yeah. And was the Lemonade stand a success? Oh, yeah, yeah. It went on for years. Oh, really? Wow. Wow, that's great.

My children missed several years of school. Oh, that's great. Because we're just making too much money. Once we got the Dinofrio Wow, that's great. My children miss several years of school. Oh, that's great. Because we're just making too much money. Once we got the non-off-real bump, that was their job. Yeah, but here's the thing about America. It's like, if you're making money, you don't need an education. No, absolutely. That's what I said to that.

You don't need social skills. It's all about the money. As long as you're selling that lemonade. Yeah. And I'm getting my cut. And that's not even a euphemism. No, I agree. I take it literally, David Cross style. I believe it. I don't not believe it. I do do believe it. I also want to thank you for co-starring with me, supporting my work in Pitchbrook 2. That's right. Which we did in Baton Rouge. It was in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

And I have a terrible place. I would agree with you. Yeah. And it's not as bad as Shreveport. I've never been to Shreveport. It's awful. And I apologize to those who were born in Baton Rouge and live in Baton Rouge and have to convince yourself

that Baton Rouge is an Oakley place to be because you're stuck there. Yeah. I mean, there's, it's, the good things about Baton Rouge are Raisin Canes, the chicken place. Did it start there? Because there are, like if you're saying it's good, Baton Rouge is good for Raisin Canes, the chicken finger place. Yeah, the chicken finger place.

Because it started in Baton Rouge. I have no idea. We have Baton Rouge to thank. Oh,es. The chicken finger plays. Yeah, the chicken finger plays. Because it started in Baton Rouge. I have no idea. We have Baton Rouge to thank. Oh, I don't. There are other raising canes, so Baton Rouge doesn't really win on that. Huh. It's a chain. Okay.

Can you, would you guys look that up? Yeah, look that up. See how many raising canes there are? I think there's a raising canes opening in New York City. What? Where? Believe that's true. Times Square? I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope I hope I hope I hope it is the Baton Rouge of Manhattan

Yes, it is not even true though because I mean the thing about Baton Rouge is it's Like I guess times where it'd be the New Orleans of Manhattan Because Baton Rouge is sort of like never mind. I don't want to get a college town with and and it's hot, and the weather's not good. And there's a lot of sadness there, a sad life. I did not spend as... I don't know how much time you spent there.

I feel like I was there for maybe four or five days. Well, that's how we shot. We shot for four days and then I shot another scene that was a day. Oh, I went there for a year prior to get into character and do all that and do some studying right for the character and try to bring just a humanity to the character. Yeah. What was his name again? Just a humanity to the character. Yeah. What was his name again?

Scott? Guys, you want to look that up? There are 15 locations in Baton Rouge. 15. Is it, where did it start? Where did the original Raisin Canes originate? I really hope the podcast is sponsored by Raisin Canes. It should be, right?

Right. Raisin Canes. Get on it. If not, I'm going to create a product called Raisin Canes and It should be, right? Raisin Canes, get on it. If not, I'm gonna create a product called Raisin Canes and it's gonna be deep-fried raisins with a chicken... In the shape of Canes? Wally Sticks? Yes. And but it's gonna be chicken flavored deep-fried raisins in the shape of a cane. Raisin fried chicken? That was one of the best times I've ever had working on a movie. Really? Absolutely.

That was so much fun and Elizabeth Banks, the director, was totally cool. Just improvise whatever you want to do. And I was amazed at how Jason Jones kept pushing the Green Bay Packers with this, with real specifics of terrible games that they played or playoff losses. And like right in their face, it just kept escalating. I was like, holy shit, he's going to get the shit kicked out of him. Jason, Jason. So for each take, each take, he would have something harsher and more, you know, for those of you who, and I really pity you, who've not seen Pitch Perfect 2.

David is the star of the film. Yeah, kind of. Sure. Hodgman rounds out the cast. But there's a sequence where the the the Bellas, the different acapella groups, right, have a riff off where they have like a fight, a sing fight,

song fight. Yeah, in the basement. A battle, a competition. They'll have to riff battle. They have to do acapella songs on a theme and the theme is but. It's battle, a competition. They all have to, they all. A riff battle. A riff battle. They have to sing, they have to do acapella songs on a theme and the theme is, but. It's ridiculous, but yeah. Well, the point is, so, you know, you had your heroes who were the Bellas,

and then you had the villains who were the, the flulas. Yeah, the German. Doth sound machine, the Germans. And then you had the boy heroes who were the, what's some callers whatever. And we were the tone hangers, me and Jason Jones. Reggie Watts and Joe. Joe, and we were the old guys.

We were like the old collegiate singing group with the cardigans and the cardigans. And then also randomly, the Green Bay Packers were the group. It was a really funny joke. And they were actually the members of the football team, the Green Bay Packers were the Yeah, the Green Bay Packers. The group was a really funny joke. And they were actually the members of the football team, the Green Bay Packers. And in this alternate universe, they had a secret acapella group. Oh my God, yeah. And they were going underground. And they were great.

And they were awesome. They were so much fun. They were really fun. But he's never underestimate Jones' ability to be an asshole. I was. It's such an art form for him. He absolutely cultivates it. I don't mind saying it into a microphone.

He was doing, he was being an asshole to the Lakers on purpose for fun. And it was incredible to watch. The Packers. Packers, excuse me. The Lakers, he would never do that to. No, he has more respect. But he escalated it because we kept doing these takes and there was a point where he's like in, you know, Jake Matthews or whoever's face and going, but he had all these specific

things like a game from, you know, 2006. It was like the playoff loss and it was some fuck up that somebody made and, you, whatever it was, but real specific. And like, you know, you only gained one yard after the catch and just a flagrant foul or a penalty that cost him and had all these specifics and he's right in their face. And you know that he just had it off the dome too. Yeah. Like that was the beauty of that because you could see a guy, you could see a lesser asshole

being like, I know what a funny bit will be. I'm gonna just get up in the Green Bay Packers face and talk about all their losses and then googling all the losses you could see them like right if if That he's like a guy who represents a guy at the bar who's had too much to drink right like fuck these guys I come gonna you know whether whoever it is whether it's an actor or sports figure or something And the guy wants to pick a fight it was like that But there's cameras and there's people. So you could tell the instinct was to fucking throttle this guy. Yeah, but they couldn't. The cameras were

rolling and they're supposed to be. It was scripted. It was all improvised. It was so incredible. Yeah, I was I was amazed that he didn't get his ass kicked. I loved that too. And I loved hanging out with you and I loved hanging out with everybody. But it wasn't that, those four days, we were shooting nights for whatever reason. And it was hot. Yeah, it was awful. And we were not shooting on a soundstage,

we were shooting on what I believe. We were in a warehouse, right? It was a warehouse that every Halloween would become a walkthrough haunted house. Oh, that makes sense. So there were all these, you know, outside of the set that they built, which was supposed to be your character's basement. Yeah.

Basement, you know, you played an eccentric billionaire who had an obsession with underground acapella and you built a acapella stadium in the basement of your mansion or something. I wonder what though, what that was like in the writer's room when they were pitching that? I don't know. I hope they just said sold in the room. It's really funny. But outside of that, you then walk out to like take a break and get some fresh air and you'd be sitting in like a skeleton throne. Yeah. That was leftover. It was really hot. And you know, obviously you can't run air conditioning during shooting. I'm not even sure they had air conditioning to run. Maybe that's why we're shooting at night.

But it was really, really exciting and just everyone was hanging out together and it was like going to this highly intense four day summer camp. It was fun. Fun, fun, fun. Inside the mouth of someone running 108 feet or something. It's like damp, dark, moist.

It was, yeah, it was windowless too. There's no windows, no air. Pretty much a death trap for any kind of Halloween setup. Yeah. That's got that, what was the club in Rhode Island? The club in Rhode Island? The, yeah, the caught fire. The caught fire. And everybody died within like a minute and a half. I don't know. I mean, I remember that story, but I don't remember the... It's a very funny story. Yeah, it's great. I'm going to look at it.

I mean, it just depends on your perspective. When you're done, go... Has a search of the Raising Canes locations around the country going, because I need that Rhode Island information as soon as possible. Well, so the Raising Canes, the original, was on Broadway in Baton Rouge. Ah! There you go. Did you know that?

Or are you just guessing that it was based on the conversation? It's it's it's strange how much Raising Canes defined my experience of Baton Rouge as well. Because that's what people were talking about. It's also good. Let's let's not.

Did you have it? Yeah, it's really good. It's really good. But is there one coming to New York? I need this information. When we'll get here, is it on its way now? Is it going by train or rail? When are they bringing us the fingies? Well, they opened their flagship store in Times Square just this past summer, June 27th. How about that?

Of course it's going to be in Times Square. I know where I'm going after we finish this podcast. It'll be in about two days, right? We're going to stop recording. Yeah. I'll be very hungry. Well, we talked about Pitch Perfect 2. We talked about Pitch Perfect 2.

I'd like to give Pitch Perfect 2 a plug. I don't know if anybody saw it. It's a wonderful film that's all, it's, as I said earlier, I take things literally too much, but it's a beautiful allegory, and there's so much metaphor. It's all metaphor. And if you have studied Jung, then you can watch it in a different way.

You take different things knowing that it's all metaphor. Synchronicity. There you go. Yeah, the union concept of synchronicity. It's official subtitle at first. Yes, that's right. It's perfect to the union concept of synchronicity. Yes. And Anna Kendricks, is it Anna or Anna? I say Anna. Anna. Is it Kendrick or Keen

Drake? I'm not sure. And it's Klondike. Okay. And it's actually. So, a wonderful actress from what I've heard. Yeah. Native of Portland, heard. Native of Portland, Maine. Native of Portland, Maine. Right, I happen to know. You can see she exudes Maine. She's been in cold waters. Yeah. And her character is like Sisyphus in a sense.

She has a Sisyphean task as it were. Which gets answered in... Got a boulder to roll up a hill. Yeah. It gets answered in Pitch Perfect 3. And I know they're working on Pitch Perfect 4. I'm sorry, did you say there's a Pitch Perfect 3? 3, yeah. Well, when are they filming that one? I think it's filmed. I think it's done. Oh, wait a minute. But the tone hangers, yeah. Yeah, I mentioned throughout the movie. It seems to me. Are you are you miffed?

I'm just confused because I thought I mean, well, they got me a misunderstanding because I feel like I would be in the whole that the tone hangers are in there. Oh, yeah, they did be a misunderstanding because I feel like I would be in no they did the whole That the tone hangers are in there. Oh, yeah, they are Yeah, they're like the main part the the main cast the main yeah in pitch perfect three in pitch perfect three. Yes It's about it's the tone hanger story It's it's This is fanfiction on the web or something? No, no, no. This is a movie that they shot that they released that you can see on the JetBlue flight going

from Denver to Cincinnati. They're probably overseas. They did like a whole different cast, like... What do you mean overseas? Like maybe in China they filmed an homage to Pitch Perfect and they recast everybody with Chinese speaking actors or something because I just don't... No, no, no. They filmed it with the original tone hangers.

They ate your all AI and then. Oh, yeah. But they got everybody else's in there. Jason and Reggie and Joe. I forgot about that. No, I had. On our last night of filming, I asked them to scan me because I had already approved the script for Pitch Perfect 3.

Oh, okay. So there you go. But I was like, I would prefer to be AI in it. And then we signed a thing. That's right. Yeah. Because I just, I feel so stupid. I forgot about it.

I just got that check for $3 million. My royalty check for Pitch Perfect 3. Really? Yeah. $3 million. My royalty check for Pitch Perfect 3. Really? $3 million, which means, let's see, $10,000, $14,000, this is times $17,000, but then taxes, federal incentives, hang on, a bit, $17,000. I could tell you the number. Oh, what is it? $279 million.

Is how much you made from the $300 million? That was my payout, and then I get the residuals. How did you make so much money? I don't know. That seems like a... I opened pictures in Malaysia. I don't... Okay. I... That's a city in Singapore. Who... I... So, that gives you... That is worth 297 million dollars or seventy I have many many hit movies that make a lot of money and So there the the company was willing to spend 300 million dollars. It's pure profit for them

Okay, I don't maybe I know maybe I don't know that by a sequel called pure Prophet 2. Wow. The Union Concept of Synchronicity. Wow. I've learned a lot about this. I had a blast shooting. Throughout all the South Pacific, Indonesia, Malaysia, Fiji, everything, every motion picture always has a John Ojman pic running. I didn't know that. You're so big.

So, two questions. One is why do you think- Love of the craft. That's why I keep doing it. Oh, okay. Well, I wasn't, okay. But why do you think you're so popular in that region? I have no idea. Really?

You haven't- I've never even been. Get out of here. Not to even to be fated. Never even been to be fated. Or to be feeded. Feeded. It's very humid out there you can get feed it pretty quick oh my gosh well that's that's I don't know why I said it was human

I don't even know because I've never been there I think it is I think it is it's a tropical tropical yeah it's on the closer to the equator have you ever been they didn't make a pitch perfect three and I was not called back were you you in that one? PP3? John, we all were in PP3 except for you. Oh, really? Yeah. And they, I thought it was a little egregious how they wrote your character off. I thought it was cruel, actually. What is it they did?

You were experimenting with the black hole and then you went through the black hole and you were literally extruded because of the black hole. I'd rather you not use that word. You don't like it? You know it grosses me out. Oh, gosh, all right. Well, you were poops squeezed. Poops squeezed?

Yeah. Poops squeezed out of a black hole? Well not out into, I mean through the black hole. And then, but then they, it was worse than that because then they had your character come back, you were saved somehow, but it was just your nose. And then your nose went as part of some experiment, went up in Elon Musk's SpaceX rocket, which took off, but then exploded, you know, five minutes into the flight. It's really quite a plotline. Yeah.

For my character who's famously named Tonehanger 3. Tonehanger 3, yeah. Well, they changed it to Trey. So it's more, yeah. So your tone hanger, your tray. Tone, Tony hanger, tray. Tone hanger, tray. So your tray.

You know, and I'm just a nose in the movie. Well, uh, initially you're, you're, you were a nose, uh, uh, but then you got sat on by the guy who played Mr. Belvedere in the sitcom, who this is a very famous story. At a read-through, I was wearing very loose pants and this is true, accidentally sat on his balls, the testicles, and then they couldn't, the production had to shut down for like a week and a half. Wait, which part of the story is true? The thing about sitting on his testicles is true.

The thing that's also true is he playing himself. Mr. Belvedere. No, the actor playing Mr. Belvedere, Mr. No, the actor playing Mr. Belvedere playing himself, his name was on his own balls. No, sat on the nose that was my character. Yeah. And then you got and then he accidentally was like, oh, and he clenched and you went into his lower GI. I was reverse extruded. You were reverse extruded. Oh, and he clenched and you went into his lower GI.

I was reverse extruded. You were reverse extruded. And then you, I can't remember what you end up in the Guadalcanal. Probably pooped it. It could be, it's not clear. But I just thought that was a strange... And elaborate. Elaborate and just, but also a little cruel. Like like why not just like oh, he's his mom sick and he has to visit or

Say anything or not mention me at all. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I appreciate the tribute. Thanks, Elizabeth banks It's like they were out of their way like going out of your way to write me out of PP3 And the and the Adam divineFacto PP4 show. Yeah. It was a fun experience. Yeah. And they put me up at a crazy master suite, king suite thing. It's like a living...

It's bigger than my apartment in Brooklyn. It was massive, penthouse, 12,000 square feet. You stayed at a Holiday Inn. You stayed at a Holiday Inn? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think that was so they could save money so they could, because if you've seen my contract... Well, I could imagine.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well spent. Yeah, yeah. We were across the parking lot from a Ruth's Chris Steakhouse. In Baton Rouge? Yeah. Can I I'll tell you this little true story? When I was early on when I was doing stand-up this is quite early and I think I

would have been about 19 or 20 maybe and I just started going out on the road and I was opening in Baton Rouge and the club wasn't doing that well and it was papered, and just free drinks and it was just awful. It was a terrible situation and I was a little kind of button-pushy back then and I Do not remember the bit that where this happened, but there were a bunch of Guys from LSU who were there sitting at the tables just drinking you know their $2 drink tickets and whatever

Not even drinking the beer just drinking the tickets. That's how hard-core they were. Yeah, they were... One of the guys, big guy, like I made the mistake of acknowledging him or engaging him and I was just like, oh, you guys don't like me, do you? And whatever and then they clearly didn't like me, do you? And whatever. And then they clearly didn't like me. And they were like mean. And then one of the guys, big guy,

just stood up and did this thing, right? To me, he's like, he's as far away as like over there. And he just stands up and he goes, ah, ah! Looking right at me. Wow, he's zowie. And like after the show. I thought that got retired with looney tunes. Well, this was a while ago. I was okay. I was 20 19 or 20

I think but yeah, and that was my first introduction to baton Rouge The the fist in de palm. Yeah, literally and he stood up They you know everybody see that you made a point to stand up. Yeah, it was pretty, it was corny. It's really corny. Like, did you point it out to them? It's a little on the nose. If I had the wits and confidence back then. Can I punch this up a little bit, so to speak? Yeah.

What you're doing, you look like you're Sam and he's Sam. I, yeah, I should have, but I was, I had to ask the club for like, can somebody hang out because they didn't like me. The people at the club didn't like me either. So it always makes it difficult. Yeah. And I just ended up staying there until like, way, way, way, way, way later. Oh no.

But meaning just waiting for like an hour and a half until, you know. Everyone would disperse. Yeah, yeah. Just hanging out and having drinks until I felt it was safe to go back to the comedy condo. And nothing happened, I hope. No, no, nothing happened. No, it was an empty thread.

Did you go to the Ruth's Chris Steakhouse? I don't know if it was there at the time. It wasn't, but I did go to what was there. It was a gas station that I had a Slim Jim. Yeah, fair enough. Super long or regular size? Regular size. Yeah. Well, you were just starting out.

I was starting out. You couldn't indulge in the... That's a terrifying story. Do you know when I was... I've never experienced anything like that. Oh, I've had a... I've had a number of those kind of... Oh, I'm not surprised. But...

I've had a number of, like, oh, shit, I'm gonna... But I never worked in a comedy club. Meaning. Oh, well, that's the that's where that stuff happens. Yeah. I just I just waltzed into humorous rooms, you know, right? Everyone already knows. Yeah. Everyone is in the theater already knows like, OK, now don't expect to laugh too hard. Oh, but you will you will enjoy some ride. Here comes the NPR experience. Exactly so.

Get ready to mildly chuckle under your breath four times. That's like the Garrison Koehler of Stand Up. Yeah, that's right. I was the Garrison Koehler of... You're the homespun folksy, down-to-earth... Garrison Keeler of Luna Lounge. That's what I was reaching for. Yeah. Did you ever do Luna Lounge? Well, that's how I kind of started getting into comedy at all, really. At least, the

performed comedy was because of Naomi and... What's his name? Who were doing eating it. Then did a spin-off of literary humor. I mean, I hope your listeners can hear the huge gust of airs from my huge gust of wind from my air quotes. Literary humor. There are air quotes there. That's exactly what it was. It was like me and Sarah Val and Sarah Thier. Well, that's three funny, interesting people. Yeah, but reading our pieces, you know what I mean? So eating it was the big showcase of alternative stand-up comedy at Luna Lounge.

I miss those days. I miss that room. God, that was the best. That was incredible. That was incredible. I mean, there's got to be something like it now, I guess. But it's just, you know, I'm not in that scene. I mean, well, Joe and Aparna and May have their show Butter Boy. And there's all kinds of shows like that. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. And that was how that was the first time I ever did my imitation of stand up comedy. But and I would read stuff you had written. Yeah, kind of absurdist comedy, meta, really meta comedy. I had been writing for McSweeney's and that was sort of towards the end of my career as a literary agent in the late 1990s. And I had already started writing for magazines. And basically, I was

just like, I'm not happy writing for... I'm not happy tricking these authors into letting me represent them. They deserve actual representation. Right. And I deserve to try my hand at actually making things. So that's what was happening. And then you were writing. And then I changed. And you continued to write. But that was an uncomfortable transition, like getting into very cold water. I learned what a cairn was from your book. Yeah, and I didn't realize how controversial they are.

Oh, because you're taking nature and yeah, yeah, yeah, like to jump in my book Vacationland available wherever books are sold or your local library. Which is the book, a very good book and where I learned about cairns. And cairns are like when you stack up stones on a beach, if it's a rocky beach like they have in Maine or maybe in a river. And in Western Massachusetts, people would mysteriously stack these stones down by the riverside where people would go swimming. And it was very witchy and Blair witchy and scary looking and cool. And the joke in the book is that I say to my friend Jonathan one day when we're visiting down there, like, maybe I should make a cairn, but I'm not sure it's allowed. And like, literally, my fear of confrontation was I'm not sure it's legal to

put a rock on top of another rock and maybe I'll get in trouble. And that's the joke, but it turns out I was right. A lot of people hate it. Well, yes. The idea that you are... Disturbing nature. Disturbing nature and which I think is a little silly. Yeah, I think it's a lot silly actually. I mean if everybody did it, sure. Right. But then you'd have Cairn Beach

And that'd be its own thing. That would be a time thing, but you can't have everybody doing it You know like well you me Vincent D'Onofrio were allowed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we should be we're celebrities Yeah, I mean we were all in pitch perfect three. Oh Right That's you know Vincent D'Onofrey was in Pitch Perfect 3, right? I just had a feeling somehow. Yeah. Yeah.

Was he a tone hanger? Yes. Oh my gosh, I'm just now realizing your kids were in it as well. Oh, my goodness. Oh, he was scouting. He was scouting. Yeah, he was scouting cigarettes. Scouting cigarettes. Yeah.

Jonathan, do you have any questions? Well, at the moment I extrude not. Do we want to do any other senses? Nope. Really? Now here's something. Every episode I do, I'm going to ask you a question from my daughter. Great.

My daughter is six as of this taping, six. And I'm going to look up a question. I've had real past few months, I've been collecting them. And... You don't even want'm not even asking my best smell was I'm sure what's your best smell mr. Belladiers balls. Okay, great. Yeah Just been waiting on that one right I didn't even did not occur to me. Thank you I get it now. Yeah, I see the missed opportunity I just need to get in my jokes before I

Get extruded out of here. Okay, where are... Oh, yeah. I'm going to ask you this one. This is a pretty good one. All right, I like it. If Donald Trump found a lucky penny. I don't do political material.

Okay, fine. Okay. All right, I'll just ask you this one. No, I'll do the other one. No, no, no, no, I'll leave that for Janine. All right. Is ice bad for you? It can be if you're encased in it. Okay. You want to expand on that?

Well, you don't want to freeze to death. Right. Though I think I would prefer to freeze to death than burn to death. Yeah, me too. Yeah. Yeah. Is ice bad for you? If it is in the, if it is really cold and you shape it into a dagger and someone stabs you with it, that's no good.

Mm-hmm. So that's one way it could be bad for you. If it's ice in a, ice cold drink and you drink it too fast, you can get a headache, bad headache for a little bit. Right. So bad, but in a relative sense, not too bad. They say you shouldn't chew on ice, it's bad for your teeth. Is that true? I've heard that somewhere along the line in like crazy 52 years on this whirling globe called Earth.

Hmm. The world's a big blue marble and we, I remember that one. We see it from out there. The sun and moon declare are some things that are words. Yes, we, oh, but we will never escape this earth, not in your lifetime or mine. All dreams of planetary exploration are science fiction. You will die on this big blue marble in the sky that you'll never reach. Wow, cool.

I'd just like to send a message to the kids, sir. Ice is dangerous if it's formed into a weapon or a stick. Spear, I was gonna go with spear. More dangerous than ice is a madman with an ice pick. Leon Trotsky died that way. Right through the temple. Right through the temple. A fine university inside of it.

That guy knew what he was doing. Jess, you know what? If I had to choose a way to go, burn to death or I speak through the temple. I speak through the temple, yeah. Yeah. That'll take you right away. Yep. I hope that answers your daughter's question. I'll find out. I'll play it for her and see if she's satisfied. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're the host of this thing. Yeah, I'm wrapping it up.

Oh, okay, go for it. Yeah. Well, Jonathan, thank you so much. Again, this is our, my first recording, you may not be the first person. No, I understand. And, you know, if, if it, if it happens, if I happen to be edited out of this episode, I'm, I'm familiar with the experience. Okay, yeah.

And we could just, you know, like just... It'll be up to AI. Right, of course. Yeah. So, we... Put me in for chat, GPT. Exactly. Right.

So, we will AI... AI all of this. All of that, yeah. For sure. And then, and we'll try to, we'll try to, you know, de-age you a little bit and maybe get rid of some of the, the bags under my eyes. The bags under my eyes and tighten this up here.

And also most of the facial features. Well, gone. Right, exactly. Yeah, gone. Like maybe kind of just put Josh Gad in here instead. Oh, that would, Emma, Josh Gad, make a note of that. Yeah. Josh Gad. Yeah. And have him say

completely different things and be really entertaining. Let's get Josh Gad in here and we'll replace this episode with Josh Gad. Yeah, right. Okay. Okay. I mean, it's just... I've been doing a podcast for a long time. I've seen it happen and it's... Do you want a copy of this? What's that? Would you like a copy of this? I'm hoping that it's not even recorded. Uh, yeah, we have a... Oh, yeah. CCTV up there. Oh, yeah.

I would like a copy of this for my own personal collection so I know that at least, at least I took up some of your time. Yeah, I'll get you a flash drive and we'll... A thumb drive, please, yeah. Right? Or a thumb, yeah, sure. I'll sort of turn my... Okay, why? Very technical. How is thumb drive more, yeah. Right? Thumb, yeah, sure. I'll just turn my eyes.

Okay, why? Very technical. How is thumb drive more technical than plaster? I have no idea. I don't either. Jonathan, thank you so much. Davidathan, the pleasure is mine. I was enjoying spending time with you.

We both have the pleasure. You don't have to sort of lay claim to it. No, I want to own this pleasure. All right. So I don't get any... I want to sit in this pleasure and own it. It's stew. For the next hour.

All right, man. By myself. Thank you so much. Hey, thank you very much. Sense is Working Over Time is a headgum podcast created and hosted by me, David Cross. The show is edited by Katie Skelton and engineered by Nicole Lyons with supervising producer Emma Foley. Thanks to Demi Druchin for our show art and Mark Rivers for our theme song. For more podcasts by Head Gum, visit headgum.com or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Leave us

a review on Apple Podcasts and maybe we'll read it on a future episode. I'm not going to do that. Thanks for listening.