Senses Working Overtime with David Cross - Lewis Black

Episode Date: June 6, 2024

Lewis Black (The Daily Show) joins David to discuss touring, comedy after 9/11, and more. Catch all new episodes every Thursday. Watch video episodes here.Guest: Lewis BlackSubscribe and Rate Senses Working Overtime on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and leave us a review to read on a future episode!Follow David on Instagram and Twitter.Follow the show:Instagram: @sensesworkingovertimepodTikTok: @swopodEditor: Kati SkeltonEngineer: Nicole LyonsExecutive Producer: Emma FoleyAdvertise on Senses Working Overtime via Gumball.fm.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Podcast. I think we can sit either there or there. And I'll leave it to my guests to sit wherever they want. That corner of the couch or that chair? That corner of the couch. Yeah, she just had me here for a picture. Okay. Yeah. So sit anywhere there. Okay. How you doing? Good.

It's good to see you. You too. It's been a long time. Yeah I'm not even gonna move forward until you take your seat. That's how this works. You're set up. You got water. You got coffee. I got water. I got man. Let me throw this stuff over here. All right. Beautiful, beautiful day out there today. It's nice. It's very nice. It's one of those. Not that I don't always feel this way, but it's one of those like,

oh, man, New York is just the best. And I love this place. But, you know, and it's because of the prior deluge, it's actually kind of clean for a minute. Yeah, I know. Remember, don't worry, we're getting a wash out tomorrow. Are we really? Is it going to rain tomorrow? Yeah. God damn it.

Yeah. We could not go more than- It was two days and then fuck you. 60 degrees. Well, yesterday and today were fantastic. Yesterday was unreal. You're welcome. Oh, wait, you're Jewish. Yeah. Oh, so you control the weather as well. I do. Personally, or do you just know the people who do control the weather? I know them and since I got the COVID shots, I'm in complete control.

So you're in control? I'm in complete control. So you're in control? I'm in complete control as much as I can be in part of it. Oh, because I was never, I was so shocked. I mean, I've been, you know, I just turned 60 and I was not aware until, what, it was like four or five years ago that Jews controlled the weather and I didn't know that. You know, I learned it from I believe a state senator in Tennessee or something, and I believe. But yeah, so the Jews controlled the weather and I asked my mom, I asked all my relatives like, what the fuck? How come nobody told me this? And they had no idea either. And then I did a little research and then you would think, I'm sure I'm telling you stuff you already know I assume,

but you would think it was like this cabal or kind of organized thing. It's a guy. It's a guy. And like I'm going to say Dustin Texas or something like that. Dustin Texas. Dustin, I want to say Dustin, Texas or something like that. Destin, Texas? Destin, I think. Destin. Yeah, it's a guy. One Jewish guy controls the weather. And so the guy, the state senator from Tennessee who alerted me and the rest of America and the world to this was right. Everybody was kind of jumping on him like, what, this is crazy, anti-Semitic conspiracy, QAnon stuff. And he was right.

Well, they always are, especially from Tennessee. Yeah, yeah. They're the smartest. That's their motto on the license plate, the smartest state. Well, and sometimes, and then little stickers that say, we're smarter than you. Yeah. I think that's implied when you say the smartest. So we're smarter than anybody who's not. Yeah, no, they're really, they've given me some great material. Yeah.

Do you, do you do well there in Tennessee? I'll find out. I'm back there. I'm back there on Friday. So we'll see. Oh great. Where, where? See how it goes.

Uh, Chattanooga. Oh, I had, I had, I had a lot of fun there on the last So we'll see how it goes. Chattanooga. Oh, I had a lot of fun there on the last tour. It's pretty. It's a pretty city. Yeah, it was Chattanooga or Knoxville? Wait. No, it was Chattanooga. What's the college where the university is?

I think it's in Knoxville, but don't hold me to it. I was, I went to Chattanooga a bunch when I was a kid, cause it was not a far drive and I had a good friend of mine, his family moved to Chattanooga when I was young. So I'd go up there and visit, cause it's like, not a long drive from Atlanta. And I think it might've been Knoxville that I had the really fun show.

And there were a bunch of, I think it might've been Knoxville that I had the really fun show. Yeah. And there were a bunch of, by a bunch, I meant more than one swingers at the show, like couples that swing, you know, like that old, that 60s sounding thing. And- How did you know? They made it clear. And listen, this is for real. I did not know this until the show in Knoxville but if there's an upside down pineapple,

I don't think a real physical pineapple but a picture or an illustration where you have that, that is a, that's signage that says we're swingers. Did you know that? No, no clue. Yeah. That's, Emma, did you know that? I didn't.

Okay. But my sister has catered a swingers party before. Really? Yeah. Was there any requests for upside down pineapple cake? I'd have to ask. I'll get back to you. Yeah.

I didn't know that. I don't remember seeing any upside down, nor have I ever seen that as far as I know. I've never seen an upside down pineapple thing. But that's what somebody told me. Wow. Affiliated with the scene. No, no, I've, it's, you know, but Tennessee's been good, you know, because, I mean, a lot of the times it's people showing up who are like, I've got to go see somebody who, I'm

going to be able to, you know, who kind of thinks. Oh, fuck yeah. People, I assume this happens to you too, but people will often ask me, especially after shows, if I'm somewhere a little bit more urban or whatever, they're like, man, do you change your act when you're in the South? Or like, no, I never change it for anybody. Yeah. Well, man, you must, I mean, how does that stuff go in the South? And it's like, great. For the same reason, you go to a small town,

you know, and people who just for 90 minutes want to feel like, oh, I'm not alone. Yeah. And they're with other like-minded people too. Yeah, who they don't know exist until they get in that room. You got some dates to plug? Do I have dates to plug? Uh, let's see the, uh, you know, when's this come out? Uh, early 2026.

Well that. Yeah. Then I'm going to be- We're going to go and post and clean it all up. Okay. I'm going to be- So we'll, we'll, we'll de-age you and we'll, uh- No, I have dates to plug.

I've got, uh, I mean,... No, I have dates to plug. I've got, I mean, this week it's not going to happen. Nope. Yeah, next week it's not going to happen. Probably not. So the only real dates I've got is for those of you who... I'm going to be in Delaware and DC and Delaware, DC and Richmond. Okay. The first week in May and then after that I'm in Europe.

I've got like five shows in Europe and I'm in the middle of retiring. You're in the middle of retiring? I'm retiring from touring. Are you really? I mean, it's hard. It's crazy. I was doing 100 shows a year. It's tough. Generally, I'd get something else or I would write a book and da-da-da-da. But mostly, I was still doing 100 and 120.

You know, when it started, I was doing like 150 to 200. It was crazy. And it's just, I wanna do other stuff. Sure, like live, you know? Not live out of a suitcase and, you know, where every double tree looks the same. And you're like, where am I? I can't, you go. Have you ever gone to

the wrong room at the hotel because it was the room you stayed in the night before? Oh yeah, but not as bad. I'm pretty good with that. What's your method to remember your room number? No method. No? I make it a calendar date like like, you know, June 26th is 626, you know, room 626 or whatever. No, I do, I go 66, 66, 66, 62, 62, I won't leave until I generally know. It's so hard for me.

And then I, you know, I'll tear off that little thing and I'll put it in my pocket. Because, you know, I drink a lot too, so by the end of the night, and I have gone, but when I was completely sober, I've gone to the wrong door when they came. What, it's not working, god damn it. Oh, oh no, this was Indianapolis last night. Oh, I'm in Denver. The other is, this I do, I can remember the room.

This I do is, I'll have the key that I had from the night before. And so I pick up that key and walk out and then come back and then put it and go, oh, you fucking idiot. This is... Get rid of your key. I'm not at the Resonance Inn tonight. No. Which to me was one of... You're at the La Quinta.

There's the difference? When I was touring, initially clubs, and they came up, I'll never forget it, the Residency and they started building those. And to me- Oh, when they first came up, they were great. Wasn't that like- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like the Ritz.

Yeah, it was so nice. It's still nice. I mean, when I'm out- I like it. Yeah, just was so nice. It's still nice. I mean, when I'm out, yeah, just a little, it's like, oh, I can actually go out and do a little shopping and get a salad and put it in the fridge and get a bottle of wine for later and all that kind of stuff.

Yeah, I prefer that than the tiny shoe box room, you know. Yeah, yeah, those are great. Those are nice. There's a little space. That was like the, I thought, wow, things are really looking up. This'll be a career. Yeah. Room, you know. Yeah, yeah, those are great. Those are nice. There's a little space and- That was like the, I thought, wow, things are really looking up. This will be a career. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, you know, and you've been doing it since when? Well, I mean, I've started at the West Bank. I mean, I started really after the West Bank, 1988 is when I really started, you know, turning toward it. And that was, and a lot of people don't know this, I don't know if anybody knows this, but you were a very early advocate for me and what I was doing. I had the sketch group in Boston.

Yeah, Cross Comedy. Yep, Cross Comedy, and you brought us to the West Bank a couple times. Yeah. And I would say you were the first person who kind, were you friends with Crimmins? No, I mean, I, baby, you were. So how did you know, how did you know of us? I saw you.

Oh, okay. You were up at Catch in Boston? Yeah, in Catch, cause Catch really was where I kind of, I was, just a great club. Oh, yeah. One of the five greatest clubs ever. Important, very important in the history of comedy. Had a huge effect. It was like kind of for me, grad school in terms, because I really, you know, was transitioning to being a full-time

comic and I'd been writing plays and doing theater. And so, Catch was the place when I first started working. Catcherizing Star. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so, that was the first place up there where I went, wow. Yeah, it was- The comics I saw there, you guys, and when I saw you guys, I came up and went, fuck, this is great. I want, well, you guys, and when I saw you guys, I came up and went, fuck. This is great. I want you guys, I've got this place in New York. Yeah, you were great. I mean, you were really,

really very important to us and to me. Just as part of that, what would become known as alternative comedy and whatever anybody thinks of when they think of that, when that wasn't a thing yet, but was starting to burble up under the... Because Boston had a lot of amazing great comics, but they were a type of comic that it was the prototype, the archetype of that 70s, 80s comic. Boston was also very kind of male and very little aggro and a little gentle misogyny.

Gentle misogyny. And just the tight, the slightest pinch of homophobic racism. And yeah, so that, so Catch a Rising Star in Cambridge was a place that, you know, let, you know, me and you and, you know, John Benjamin and Louis C.K. and Sam Seder and Ginny Garofalo and Laura Keitlinger and you know, all those, you know, folks that would, and Mark Maron, you know, just that group. It was a safe space. It wasn't safe space.

And also they developed this audience. Yeah. Robin, right? Robin Horton, yeah, was the name. Developed this audience that kind of got it. So they were coming audience. Yeah. Robin, right? Robin Horton, yeah, what's the name? Developed this audience that kind of got it. So they were coming in. I mean, it was the first place for me where I saw a line of people outside.

I said, well, fuck. Yeah, well, in that same vein of what we were talking about earlier in the South, people going, oh, you know, that was like, if you wanted to go see Stand Up, but you didn't want to go to Nick's, you didn't want to go to the Comedy Cellar, you didn't want to go to Nick's, you didn't want to go to the Comedy Cellar, you didn't want to go to Sam's,

you didn't want to go to the aforementioned type of comedy. Again, they're good comics, but it's a pretty specific type of thing and you wanted something different. You didn't care if there was a lesbian on stage, whatever, and then you'd go to Catch. And then there'd be more experimental stuff. And yeah, it was an important place in my life,

an important time, a place in comedy history, and certainly you were a part of that. So thank you. On behalf of the United States of America, I hope you'll accept this. It's called the Mini Kennedy Center Honor. It's made of chocolate. And it was fun.

I mean, to be honest, what was fun about having a room, which is what I, when I first came to New York, I said, you know, I could do this, this and this, or because I wasn't really trying to break into clubs. And I said, but I could get a room and bring in whoever I wanted. Yeah. And that was huge. And I was working with two other guys who were like,

you found these people great. One was very funny, Rusty McGee and he was more musical and Rand was more theater oriented and I was kind of new both worlds. Also, you guys were writing sketches and stuff. I mean, it was like, and we had one or two groups down there that were really good. And I was just, you know, I was like, this is, here's the future of sketch comedy.

I remember the state came to see us there one time. Yeah. The, some of the gang from the state. Yeah. It was really, it was, it was really a great room for just trying anything. Yeah, it was great. I mean, and also, you know, not that we were all country bumpkins, but we were like, wow, we got a place in New York City. There's a theater and we get people there. It was, it was a kind of a bigger deal than just playing, you know, catch on a Monday or Tuesday. Well, it was also, you know, it was the thing

that impressed me too when I'm there. You know, we were right on 42nd Street. You know, we were right, we were two blocks from, you know, we were two blocks from Times Square, two blocks from Broadway. What was the name of the prostitute that you brought back stage that first night? She was trans and I can't remember Puerto Rican. Sweet, sweet girl.

Yeah, Chappie. Chappie? Chappie. That's not the name I was expecting. Chappie. You know about Chappie in Boston, right? No. Oh, well, that's a whole thing for another podcast. Is that right? Yeah, there's a guy named Chappie who kind of – you go through him if you want to get – if you want your production, film, TV production to have a smooth nose filming day, yeah, you go through Chappie.

I believe he's in Charleston or Southeast in one of those. But, you know, old school Boston. Well, Boston was big for me because I did. The greatest thing was, I was doing a play at the Hasty Pudding, which was part, but it was for the ART, a Chris Durang play. Mm-hmm. And then, but it was only, it was just the greatest gig ever. So I was working four shows a week.

That's the amount we would do, maybe five. That's nothing for theater. No, it's phenomenal. Eight, right? Or nine. No, it is eight. And then, you know, so? Or nine. It is eight. Yeah. And then I finished the show, and the great thing about stand-up is I could go literally a block and a half and go up on stage.

Yeah, that's great. To catch. And so it was huge for me. And the guys that I met, like you and the rest of those folks there all had an effect on me. You know. Wait, were you always kind of like political out of the gate or did you have more kind of anecdotal, not I don't mean this in a pejorative way, but more like pedestrian observation

stuff? in a pejorative way, but more like pedestrian observation stuff. No, I would say that I had whatever. I was the. Initially, I was just grabbing at straws. You know, I was I was doing it. I was doing it as a way that I could write and get on and get my writing out there, because I was writing plays and sending them off and nothing is happening, but this way I could write stuff and get up and do it. And so it all started with, it was all stories, all true stories of my sex life, which was

all very funny. I mean, it was the stuff that people, you know, it's the thing when you're sitting around, you know, I could be funny, you know, but's the thing when you're sitting around, you know, I could be funny, you know, but I never thought that. They would laugh, I got it, and they all said, you know, you should really do this. And I was, you know, and I had a fascination with the form. I was just fascinated that somebody could get up. And I'd watched all of these comics from, you know comics from the Ed Sullivan show through Steve Allen through Johnny Carson.

I'm just watching them all going, wow, this is, I'd love to kind of figure this out. But I really wasn't, the idea wasn't I wasn't gonna do, I wasn't really thinking I'm gonna do this, I just did it for fun. And I could do these things. I mean, then I started eventually just writing stuff and going and so I'd write, you know,

there would be six people running for office and for the presidency. And I would write, here's his speech and I'd pick up a piece of paper and read something by Henry Scoop Jackson, who the hell remembers that? But I'd pick up and I'd do his speech. I certainly don't. Nobody does.

But I did, and I killed with it. Who was Henry Scoop Jackson? Henry Jackson, he ran for, he was running for office at one point, and I can't even remember when. How'd he get the nickname Scoop? I don't even want to think about it. You think it's dirty? I think it's odd.

I think maybe. You think it's a sexual act, like a Cleveland steamer type of deal? Yeah, or maybe his hand, you know, he lost a hand and they put an ice cream scoop there and that was how he won the office. Oh, he won? No, he didn't. He won. He was a senator.

Okay. From where? The fact that I remember that I did it there. This is a guy of your era, of your time that ran? Yeah. Boy, I never heard of Henry Scoop Jackson. Sounds like a good Jeopardy. Yeah, it is, but nobody would know it.

And I can't even remember the... But he ran and then was gone in like a minute. He was one of those guys that was like, I I'm gonna give it, nope, forget it. He didn't even finish the sentence. Couldn't even get the whole thing out. But it was easy, but I would kind of pick up, and but I did a bit of it. I never thought that would be part of what I was doing.

I just, to me, I was trying to find what's, what am I gonna get up there and talk about? And so when did things change? When did they, when did it become, oh, this is what I'm gonna be doing? At the West Bank when I started really, two things that helped there. One was that I was introducing everything.

So, you know, as a comic, one of the ways you get comfortable on stage is that if you get to, if you host. Yeah, sure. And because nobody expects much of you. So I was hosting and I started to develop material while I was hosting because I didn't expect much of anything, just to be able to relax the audience and I didn't have anything other than, and I had shows that I was really, I liked that were coming up.

So it was pretty easy gig. And then on Saturday night, and you probably did it at some point, we did the, we had a free show and you people would basically Saturday at midnight when, and it was a time when none of my friends, nobody had any money. And so we'd do it for free so they could come down and have a couple of beers and watch, you know, me and their friends and gave them the opportunity. There I started just tearing things out of the paper, be it social or political, and just stand on stage and I would have like a stack of papers and I'd pick it up and go,

you see this? And then I'd read it and toss it down and read this and toss it down. And then the ones that stuck I started developing bits around. Did you ever do anything from the like the shoppers you know when they have the sales what do they call that? No. Yeah, no. It was all it was all in the first... Coupon?

Coupon? No, I never did coupons. Because people would demand that. Penny saver? Penny saver? No, penny saver. Anything from the paper? No.

Religious tracks. Huh? Religious tracks. No. No Jack... What's that guy, Jack Chick? No. Just straight out of...

I mean, but occasionally it'd be religious because it would be something about some schmuck who had done something. What about a pamphlet? No. Or a bumper sticker? Well, no, but the Jews for Jesus thing. I grabbed a couple. Yeah, what ever happened to those guys?

They're still around. They should combine with the, one of those guys, the lost tribe, Israelite, the really- The black Jews? Yeah, the anti-Semitic racist black Jews who are descended from the Lost Tribe. And they're not, they're lost, you know, it's, we've, it's fake news, you know? And they're not even around, and they're not around anymore. They used to be in New York all the time. Oh, they used to be, you know,

I can't remember exactly what street, but they would have, they had a street that they were on with their signage behind them. They would scream and yell and it was scary, you know. Yeah, it was wild. Yeah. And had wild costumes. Yeah.

Yeah, I was like, is this, are these guys dangerous or is this a part of the Sun Ra orchestra? Or will they be doing a Joseph and the Amazing? They were kind of like that. They did have very, yeah, it did look like it was from an off-Broadway musical. Yeah, really good. If there's one thing almost all dads have in common, it's that they're really hard to shop for, especially mine, because he's dead to me. It's the same dilemma every year. What do you get the man who already has everything or says he doesn't need or want anything? Well, put down the slippers and step away from the ties and get your dad something unexpected an Aura digital frame.

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And we thank Bluetooth for sponsoring the PCAST. And you said then you moved here or you were out there for a while? I know. Yes, I came to New York via L.A. I was in Atlanta, moved to Boston. Right. And I went there to go to school and then dropped out pretty much immediately. Where'd you go, Emerson?

Emerson, yeah. Yeah. And, and then, you know, just kind of cut my teeth there doing standup. I had started it in Atlanta and I was doing it in Atlanta for, you know, a year and change. The punchline? I do the punchline in Sandy Springs and the comic strip, which is not there anymore on

Peachtree or Roswell Road. I don't think the punchline is there. It moved to either Alpharetta or Marietta, I can't remember, but punchline's not, the one that I started out in isn't there. And that was another great, that was a fun club. or Marietta, I can't remember, but punchline's not, the one that I started out in isn't there. That was another great, that was a fun club. It was, you know, it was, I got my time there. I mean, I couldn't say the audience was great,

but not for me, but also I wasn't very good. I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. I was doing all kinds of weird, you know, this amalgamation of like, wait, is he biting Steve Barton and Steven Wright and Andy Kaufman? What are you trying to do, kid? And it took me a little while, but it was Boston where I really kind of grew into it, found my voice, met all my peers that I, you know, still

work with and still friendly with. We all kind of rose together. Then I moved to LA. It sounds like a joke. It's sort of jokey, but it's not really a joke. But my whole thing is I moved to LA to make enough money to move away from LA. And I always knew that I wanted to end up in New York, been coming here since I was a kid. And I just knew I was meant to be here, you know, and then found the opportunity, which I had several opportunities to leave

Los Angeles, but then a job would come and I'd stay and I had no work lined up and I was like, if I don't leave now, I'm going to have some other offers going to come and then I'm going to stay here. It's going to be another year. And, and I just got a sublet and I got a U-Haul packed. I didn't have a ton of stuff, but I packed up my thing, uh, and moved to New York. And that was it. And then I was in the East village for 10 or 11 years and then moved to Brooklyn. And I'm happy there. I got a family. It's great and I'm not moving again.

Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a… I mean, I just, I will often think in several different scenarios where I'm walking down the street, riding my bike wherever I am on the subway, I'm like, man, I'm walking down the street, riding my bike, wherever I am, on the subway. I'm like, man, I'm so lucky I get to live here and live here comfortably, you know? And I already did the poor thing. I did that for a lot of time and I'm happy that I am comfortable here. I don't like that my daughter is well off.

That bothers me. It's a constant irritation. But yeah, it's great. I love New York. Love where I live. Love being here. Yeah. I lived in, before Brooklyn Heights became Brooklyn Heights, I lived there for a while and loved living there because it was like- And it's so convenient. I mean, you got the one, two, the AC, the ferry, both bridges. Because I lived in Dumbo for a little while and it was like the F train. I mean, everything is right there.

Everything was there. And you can bike walk over. I lived in the East Village and it was faster to get, it was faster to get to where I wanted to get in Manhattan from Brooklyn Heights than it was from East 7th Street between 1st and there. Oh, okay. Yeah. I lived on 7th between C and D. That was okay. Yeah. I lived on seventh between C and D.

That was my first apartment. I lived there for a year, seven. Uh, when it was still kind of, once you get past C, it was getting a little sketchy, you know, like it used to be all, you know, anything past A and then it kind of slowly got, you know, nicer, but, uh but between C and D was still pretty sketchy when I was there like 2001. Yeah, well, when I moved in, it was first, and everybody was like, how can you?

First we moved on to St. Mark's and people thought we were crazy. But this is 79. Right. And it was like, what do you mean? I mean, first off, it's like people are awake, you don't know what time it is when you walk out. There's hundreds of people walking on the street. I love that.

Never stop. Yeah. It was phenomenal. It was like, so you never felt, it was like, what am I supposed to be afraid of? Yeah. It's like, it's more foot traffic than I'd ever seen in the city. And so I was always really comfortable. And then we moved to seventh between first and A and it was, it was still really comfortable between first and A is not, it's not a big deal. But, uh, were you there when the gap moved in to St.

Mark's? No, that was boy. Well, that was a big to do. Yeah. I was already gone. Yeah. That was, what was that? 80? Ah, gosh. 84 big to-do. Yeah, I was already gone. Yeah, that was, what was that, 80,

gosh, 84, 85. Yeah, that was a big, people were very upset. But they shopped there. They shopped there, they have good blue jeans. Yeah. Dungarees, as we call them. Dungarees, as we call them. So when did you, when did the Daily Show, were you at the inception of that or that came?

Yeah. I mean, I wasn't involved in the inception. It was just that they came to me, it was 96, and said- When did that start? Because Liz Winstead started the- It was Liz and Hank Gallo. Okay. And Hank was a producer on the show,

Liz was the exec. And I was in that, it's all about, as you know, timing. So I'm in that sweet spot of being this comic that everybody kept going, how come you're not doing better? And I go, I don't know. Well, the best question. And so-

How come you're not more successful? Yeah. And so I was, I said, I couldn't find an agent, I couldn't do nothing. I mean, literally. And so, but Liz knew and Hank knew that I had a ton of material. Sure. That's right up the Daily Show's alley. Yeah. So they would, and it was all sorts of stuff.

I mean, it'd be everything from Valentine's Day to something that had happened in the news. So I had like 10 or 12 pieces that, and I would go in and they basically, they came to me and said, do you want to do this? I said, sure. You know, you kidding me? So it was this real amazing opportunity and I didn't write it, I just improv'd it. There was no audience initially. So I'm doing it and then Hank and Liz would come up and go, keep this, get rid of that,

do that. Great. I'd keep this, then I'd add something else and then, that was good. You can back off this and then do that. End with this. And so they give me, like I'd do it three or four times and it was done.

It was in the can and it was, and then it just, I was doing it once every two weeks. So it was great. And it was a real, you know, it was like. And then it must have snowballed and it was a big, big deal, you know? Yeah. And then you're, you know, you're headlining theaters and you're touring and you're, you know, doing specials and all that.

Yeah. Well, it came from the fact that I was doing that and then from that, that kind of established me on that screen. It's called the small screen. Yeah. It established me there. And then it also, Comedy Central started, David Tell came around at that point. So we became like the faces of

the network for about a year and a half, and that really shot things through the roof. They said, they were like, we want a personality like Andy Rooney with IBS. Andy Rooney with IBS. And it was like, get crankies up there. Yeah. It was really, and then we started, then we got an audience, then I got writers. Yeah. And it's been, you know, great. Yeah. You know, it was like, it was especially in terms of touring.

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Do you remember, you might remember the specific date. It was the first thing that I did after 9-11. And it was a show at, I want to say, Evanston or Northwestern. It was you and me. It was the two of us. I remember this as I was coming down to see you, I said, fuck, we did this show somewhere and I couldn't remember where. Yeah, yeah. But what I remember about it. And then I thought, then of course my brain goes,

we never worked together, now you're just drifting. Yeah. Yeah, I remember doing the show. I don't remember, was it Northwestern? I believe it was Northwestern. It was so soon after 9-11, but it was, you know, there was a palpable sense of like, please do comedy, please somebody do,

let's get back to standup, let's get back to normalcy or whatever. And I remember that aspect of it. And I also remember that it was a dry town, which was, uh, just didn't make any illogical. It made no sense. It was like, uh, it's like, you know, it just didn't, it still doesn't make sense to me.

It's a university town to be dry. Any town. That was some weird Christian parish thing. I mean, you could, and you're like, what about schnapps? No schnapps? Like, no, no. What about a low alcohol beer? No, light beer? No, no, no alcohol. You got any aquavela? And he's like, there's nowhere to, and we had to go somewhere. We had to go to the- Yeah, we had to go somewhere. I can't remember where we ended up. It was like a restaurant in, you know, 12 miles away. Like, this is insane. Who wants

to live like this? What did- Is it still dry? It can't still- I don't know. Can't still. I don't know. I'm not going back. I mean, if they allow alcohol, then yes, I'll go back, but I'm not going to. That's crazy. That's such a weird, I don't know what the logic is. I mean, it's got to be based in fucking puritanical stupid shit. Yeah, it's got to be, or something. The mayor doesn't like-

But they moved away from Chicago, you know, and said, we must live here, and so, you know, it's like- Temperance society. Yeah, they're, you know, it's really, they were Mennonites, I guess. Well- But Mennonites drink. Well, but, sure, they fucking, they do a lot of blow too. Yeah, exactly.

Um, man, I know so many, my guy is a minute night. But, uh, I was going to say, um, um, but I remember after nine 11, yeah, it was really, uh, I was a, and I was, before that show, I was saying, get me the fuck out of, get me out of New York, because everybody had shut down, everybody, I'm not doing comedy, we're not doing comedy, and I'm like, now's the time. Yeah, yeah.

And especially after I did the USO tours. You know, you kind of go, you know, that's when I, and it was after the fact, you know, and you kind of realize these people are going through hell and back every day and somebody next to them got blown up and you're coming in to perform. I mean, that's kind of when you need, that's why they're desperate for it. And I said, and I had a gig in San Francisco and I said, you know, people thought I was, no, you're going to fly? Yeah. Nothing's going to happen on this. Nothing. That was the first team. That team is gone. This is, you know, nobody's going to be on the plane. I couldn't pick a better time to fly.

Nobody's going to be on the plane. I couldn't pick a better time to fly. And I got out there and I felt like, I said, you know, San Francisco is a place, they were living out there already ahead of the curve in the United States. You know, it was already in the future. It was literally to me, I'm going someplace where theoretically 9-11 had taken place 10 years before and this was now the, now they were. What do you mean? I don't understand.

Where they, where the people were already in the future. They were not. I don't understand what you mean. They, I mean, they had a huge gay community that with no. Oh, I see what you mean. You mean a they had a huge gay community that with no- Oh, I see what you mean. Progressive society, okay, gotcha. Yeah, to me that was the future, especially then.

It was like, they're not living like us. I mean, we've got kind of a thing going, but they had really kind of established, you know, they got a, they had Harvey Milk, they had a mayor who was gay, and I mean, they had all this stuff going. He was the mayor, right? Or the city council. No, I think he was a councilman, yeah. Yeah. And I just thought this is a perfect place because they are already, are passed. And I got out there and they were all, and they were ready for me to talk about

stuff. You know, I mean, I was in, it was kind of remarkable. Well, I remember, uh, Mark Maron, the first thing after, uh, nine 11 was, uh, Luna lounge, which was where I was the night before 9-11. It was the very, it was the opening of the, you know, that year's, what'd you call it? What was it?

Just Luna Lounge, right? Whatever the comedy night was. Yeah. And, you know, they were, they were off for some of the summer and then they started. Um, and I hosted that show and we all like always we all went across street to Max Fish and we were there till 4 a.m. I was hooked up with this chick dude. My end it was awesome and and then

you know 9-eleven happened. And then the very, the next, I don't know, it would have been a couple weeks later when I saw Mark Maron at Luna Lounge and he said it, he did it in like a joking way, but he was like, hey, can we talk about 9-11 yet? And I said, hey, I have a gig in Evanston at Northwestern, and can I use that, but I wanna do it seriously. Can I say that? And he's like, yeah, sure. And I remember saying that, being very serious about it

at that show, at that gig. And the cathartic release of everybody going, yes, please, was something I won't forget. And it was, I'm glad I did that and didn't try to be cute about it, and then got their permission. Because you also, I mean, I rarely give a shit about whether people are comfortable or not,

but that was a special, unique thing. And then just, yeah, talked about it. of shit about whether people are comfortable or not, but that was a kind of a special, unique thing. Yeah. And then just, yeah, talked about it. It was cool. But that was Mark Maron initially. Wow. I saw him go, but in his Mark Maron-esque way. Yeah.

I was like, phony. Come on, now's not the time. Yeah. I mean, I went there and I opened with, in San Francisco, I opened with, I just had wanted to talk about, you know, Bush, you know, showing up three days late to New York. Mm-hmm. Then he came three days later and I went, I was like psychotic. I mean, it was when I still hadn't, you know, my chops really didn't, you know, were not really fully developed, so I didn't care. I mean, I just was like, I'm just, I'm gonna yell about this and this is what

I'm gonna yell about and that he drove me nuts that he, it took him three, you know, and I that he drove me nuts that he it took him three, you know You you're gonna help it be there you show up that the day of you show up the next day You don't wait three days until it's an all-clear signal you fuck We're sitting and I just went on and on and it was incredible because I was just getting it off My you know getting all of the angst out of me. But meanwhile, the audience went nuts. Jared And think of, you know, the very famous kind of symbolic taking the bullhorn and he's standing on that pile of rubble, right, going the whole world hears you today. And think of the dozens, if not hundreds of bodies that were underneath him.

Pete Yeah. Because of our ties to Saudi Arabia and in Israel, you know. Yeah. So it's very symbolic that he was standing atop the- Yeah, it really is. Of the collapsed financial center of the Western world. Western world. Who do you like more, George W. Bush or Donald J. Trump?

No, not even discussion. He's Bush. I can't. You'd rather have a beer with Bush? I'd rather do anything. I'd rather wash his back. I like. He would intend to feed him. That was one of those things that some journalists came up,

phony, not now. This is serious shit, okay? The thing about who would you you know, who would you rather have a beer with some fucking dumbass journalist, you know, and that became folksy and that's who people want to hang out with, you know, why would that be a concern of mine for the President of the United States of America? I don't give a shit. I even be can be, I, yeah. Who would you rather have a beer with?

It doesn't matter, it's not where my vote goes. Yeah, it isn't. And I don't care. And I don't really wanna spend time with any of them. No. At all. Because it may be catching that kind of corruption. It was funny, because I did a couple of fundraisers way back for a couple of things.

And for the, I guess it was for the Democrats. And I went, I can't do this. I can't be close to some of these people because I'm going to have to talk about these people. And if I'm friends with these people, I'm not going to be able to have the kind of objectivity necessary to make the joke because when you go, well, you know, it was a great meal and he got me that nice bottle of wine. So I would not prevent me from making jokes about whoever. Yeah, it would. It would. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, so many of the. Democrats, if not, I mean, 99% of them are just so useless and frustrating. And, you know, and I mean, in order to be successful in politics, you have to lie. You have to get a majority of Americans to vote for you and you have to appeal to different, all different groups. And so you're going to have to lie to them. And I'm not a good liar. I don't like it. And, you know, it's, I wouldn't want to hang out with

any of those people. No, I mean, I, there were, but it was way back. This was like, you know, when I just came 97, 96, you know, when I was really kind of, I had a little bit of taking off and then I went, no, I can't. I'm not going to do this. Because you may be the friends with them and then you become the court jester, right? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my daughter has a dentist appointment in seven minutes. All right, thank you, Phony. That's what you were trying to tell me.

Um, okay. So my daughter will be about seven minutes. My daughter will be at the dentist. Um, it's down the street. So yeah, it's down the street. Um, you just dropped her off there and said, sit in this chair and I'll be back. No, no, no. Uh, she's, she's downstairs. Uh, I, we, uh, she has be back. No, no, no. She's downstairs.

Oh. She has this whole thing about, can I, can me and May, it's her best friend across the street, can we have a lemonade stand and something? And I was like, you know, sure, of course. Yeah, that'd be great. So I just put a table out there and got lemons and a pitcher of water and one ice cube, big one. And then I gave her some change and I don't expect many people to buy it. I told her to charge $5.62 for a glass and there are no glasses. So you take a sip from the jug, you squeeze a little

lemon. So it's not going to be successful. I'm doing that on purpose so that she learns. And yeah, when this is all done, I'll go out and see how they did, assuming they're still there. And yeah, then I'll take them to the dentist. Straight shot on the C train. Straight shot. Right there.

Get off. Boom. Right there. Nice. Yeah. Right there. Nice. Yeah. That's how I choose my dentists. I'm not concerned with the certificate on the wall. I'm like, how close to the C train?

I see train. Yeah. All right, man. Well, you know, I, um, I close out every show with a question to my guest. Have you ever seen this or listened to the podcast? No. How dare you? Yeah, well.

Yeah. What do you think? I got time? I don't listen to it. I don't listen to anything. All right. I watched a touch of Tony. Yeah. Okay. That was it. And that was all. Okay. So as you know, I- And I saw that and I went, oh, great.

Yeah. That's great because I like him a lot. Oh, he's awesome. He's the best. I also got him to kind of open up a little bit more than he usually does, which was kind of nice. Oh, that's good. Yeah.

So I end each episode by asking my guest a question from my daughter. So who's who just turned seven? So this is a question to. Phony, I have had it up to here with you and your timing and your sarcasm. No, I don't need an update from FanDuel Sportsbook. Thank you. Okay, yes, so Louis Black,

it's a question from my seven-year-old daughter. Where do you stand on Israel versus Palestine? Right in the middle. Right in the middle? Yeah. Okay. So what is that? It's right in the middle. Right in the middle? Yeah. Okay, so what is that? It's right in the middle. I stand with the,

my take is that, has been that you can have, it's that stupid thing we say, you know, you could have two thoughts can exist in real time at the same time. And one is that I've got Hamas that's fighting Netanyahu and I've got Netanyahu who's fighting Hamas. The rest of the Israeli people and the Palestinian people, free of them is a totally different thing. The worry is that that's where it's like what needs to,

you know, those are the two that are at fault. That's what this is about. Absolutely. But it drives me nuts. Yeah. No, I'm not, you know, Netanyahu is awful, garbage. Horrific. And it's been for way too long. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he's back. I mean, don't forget, he was gone for a little bit. He was gone for a little bit and a friend of mine who was in the liberal party, there were like three of them, her name is Marav and she was the leader of the liberal party and

kind of helped create a coalition before he came in, that got him out at that point when he disappeared. And then because she wouldn't form a coalition with certain people, they now blame her for him being in charge again. And it was like, no, we can't cut a deal with these people. But it's incredible. Yeah, it's frustrating, it's awful and Putin certainly benefits from all this. Oh yeah, and it's always you, it was like when they went nuts in Lebanon, that thing of you become what you become what you hate. Yeah. You know, I mean, how is this possible? How are we, how are you, you know, how do you not know how to do this at this point in time with, you know, you've got this, this, this, and this, you've got all of the technology in the world, plus the technology of, of our technology. You've got everything that you could possibly have to do this without

obliterating, you know? Yeah. And then I've had, I don't know if you've had friends, but I have friends who were like, no, you know, it's both sides. It's like, nope, this is the side I'm on. You know, didn't you see what happened? Yeah, I saw what happened. It was horrible. This is horrible. You know, we can't live like this. Yeah. I know people who are myopic, blinders on, pro-Israel, how dare you say anything negative about Israel or APAC or anything, and I just don't operate under that kind of weird emotional tribal thing. Okay. Can you ask her when you tell her this, when she listens,

like, to let me know if I gave the correct answer? She did not ask that question. Oh, okay. That was not, that was from me. I thought that's a, I've really, well, I thought if you had a kid, the kid would ask a question like that. Okay, no. Well, that was from you. So here's the real question from my daughter. Why do some things

stop bouncing when it's on the carpet? Wow. She's asking the- Asking the right guy. A schmuck clown? Why do things stop bouncing when it's on the carpet? Because there's no give. The carpet doesn't – because the carpet doesn't care about bounce. The carpet cares about other things. The carpet is concerned with other things. It's got a different emotional content. It doesn't respond to the ball.

The ball is giving it nothing. It's asked the ball for stuff for years and the ball has never given it anything. The ball goes up into a hardwood floor and goes, I'm very happy here. And then it arrives at the carpet and goes, and the carpet goes, fuck you. I'm not gonna do it.

I've seen you over there with the hardwood floor. I thought it would be a question about inside out, but. No, so this goes back to your Israel versus Palestine stand. So the ball, is the ball the Palestinians or is the ball Israel? And what is the carpet? The carpet, and where's the UN in all of this? UN is the area between the carpet and the floor.

Nothing. You know? All right. That's for the UN. Now, is the floor trying to take over the carpet or is the carpet trying to take over the floor and going into its territory? Or, I mean, that'll help solve a lot of this. Well, I think that the carpet is, you know,

the carpet really initially is trying to take over the floor. That's what it's all about. Yeah, it seems so, right? So the floor was there initially, and then the carpet- And the carpet came in and said- In 1948, the carpet was added thanks to the British. Yeah. Okay. The British who also never get the blame that they should get for how this was all went

down. Yeah, the Brits are the mighty couple. And I'm one of the, you know, it's one of those things I kind of go, I can't believe I study, I kind of have a sense of it. I could, I repeat it now, no. But boy, I had a background in the Balfour Declaration from 1917 on. That's that's what a good bar mitzvah is about. Can you tell me,

can you just speak for one minute and then I'll let you go. But about your bar mitzvah, what that was like. It used to be my first joke. Yeah, what was it? You know, it was my first joke came from my bar mitzvah when I was hit the road and I dropped it in a club in Ferris State University way up in Northern Michigan, which looked like it was Nordic stock, everybody blonde hair, blue eyes,

they're playing pop a shot, they're doing all this stuff and I come on stage. And I've been doing this in New York where it works, you know. And you wrote this when you were 13? No, no, no, it came afterwards. It was a joke about your bar mitzvah, I see, I see. Yeah, but it describes it. I broke into this business when I was very young, I was 13, it was bar mitzvah. It's a stand-up gig we Jews have. It marks the passage of purity,

not its cure. And I made a lot of money that day. And it was a stupid joke, but boy, when I told it... I would say it's stupid, it's just not that funny. Well, it was an early joke. Yeah, sure. That's what most early jokes are. But I'll have to call you up and see if I got it right. No, I gotta go back and listen. But it was really... I like the marks the passage of puberty and not its cure.

And not its cure? Yeah. Yeah. That's what I thought. That'll give you an idea of where my esoteric. That, and I didn't go into- How did the upper Michigan folks react? They literally, it said it was in a room in which it sounded like they were, first off, everybody was drinking out of pitchers. Excellent.

Exactly. Because I'm looking at it and I'm going, oh, that's, and then I went, I was like, freaked me out a little. I said, if you were sitting in the audience, you'd be drinking out of a pitcher, so give them some credit. Yeah. And it sounded like there was just, it was a wall of noise. So I break in with that joke and I literally go,

yell at the top of my, you can excuse me, I have something important to tell you. I said, that's a joke that you should have had no idea why I even said it, why it came out of my mouth. I'm sorry I did it. There's no reason you should understand that. I would have to explain a lot to all of you here. I'm not going to do it. And I'm going to promise you this, that you've taught me a great

lesson in comedy. That's the last time I'd do it in this show. And I never did it again, except, you know, on and off, you know, like here. Right. Well, Louis Black, thank you for everything you've done for me and thanks for coming on the show. Thank you. Yeah. I hope you enjoyed it. I did enjoy it. All right.

Then if I can go to the dentist appointment and get a little work done on the back molar, that would be great. Yeah, you can just take her spot. Sense is Working Overtime is a HeadGum podcast created and hosted by me, David Cross. The show is edited by Katie Skelton and engineered by Nicole Lyons with supervising producer Emma Foley. Thanks to Demi Druchin for our show art and Mark Rivers for our theme song. For more podcasts by Headgum, visit Headgum.com or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Leave us a review on Apple

Podcasts and maybe we'll read it on a future time.