Serialously with Annie Elise - 133: Ruby Franke & Jodi Hildebrandt: The Disturbing Truth Behind This Revolting Case

Episode Date: March 25, 2024

New horrific details, videos, photos and journals have been released in the case against Ruby Franke and Jodi Hildebrandt. Ruby Franke, known for her Family Vlogger YouTube channel "8Passengers" and Jodi were arrested in 2023 when one of Ruby’s children escaped Jodi’s house and ran to a neighbor, asking for food and water. Authorities then found another young child who also was “malnourished” inside Jodi’s home. Both children had been tortured and tied up.  Zoc Doc Go to https://www.Zocdoc.com/ANNIEELISE and download the Zocdoc app for FREE. Then find and book a top-rated doctor today. Hero Bread Hero Bread is offering 10% off your order. Go to hero.co and use code AE at checkout. Prose Get 50% off your first order at https://www.prose.com/serial Liquid IV Get 20% off your first order when you go to https://www.liquidiv.com and use code AE at checkout. Mormon Stories Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@mormonstories  Jodi Eternal Core Conference: https://youtu.be/rOz5O4ilpiU?si=JgF_2wExo0ovgUWv Follow the podcast on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@serialouslypodcast        Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/annieelise All Social Media Links: https://www.flowcode.com/page/annieelise_      SERIALously FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/SERIALouslyAnnieElise/  Shop the Merch: www.shop10tolife.com    About Me: https://annieelise.com/      For Business Inquiries: [e-mail]

Adults have a really hard time understanding that children can be full of evil and what that takes to fight it. You've seen what it takes to fight evil. It's not the person you're fighting. And it can look like something it's not. And you've been there, you know that. They're going to be in the hospital for three days. It's so weird.

It's just not necessary. I'm trying to exaggerate this. I don't... They didn't show me... They didn't show me any pictures or anything with the way they described it. It was very serious. This is the right time. This stuff has been happening for years. Are we in the news?

It sounds like at least you're in the news. I don't know about me. I don't know what he's talking about. I'm wondering if they went to Sherry to ask her questions. I don't know. He's looking to the public. I know they are. And. Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. Now, today's episode is going to be a little bit different than the episode I thought I was going to be releasing today because it is all about Ruby Frankie and Jodi Hildebrandt. If you've been following this case, you know that there have been like massive updates that were released Friday of last week, but there's still so many people now, even though these new updates are going viral,

who are like, what's the whole story? Who are these people? How did we get from A to Z? When did things start getting so bad, and what really were the precursors that led up to everything exploding the way it did? So what I wanted to do is I wanted to come on here and I wanted to give a full rundown for everybody. Who these people are, how they started, where things started, first taking a hard left and going off the rails, and everything that kind of has developed until today, where we're at now. Because I think it's truly important to know the history of this entire case so that you can really see what the truth is now. So let's kick it back to the beginning.

We all know that the case of Ruby Frankie and her cult leader friend Jodi Hildebrandt has captured the attention of both mainstream media and social media. I mean, the last few months have just been wild. As I mentioned, last week, officials in Utah released a ton of evidence from this case. And when I say a ton, guys, I mean a ton. So my team and I spent hours going over every little detail this weekend so that we could take you through this case from start to finish. So like I said, let's kick it back to the very beginning in 2015 when the Frankie family first began getting

internet recognition. In 2015, Ruby Frankie and her husband Kevin Frankie decided to start a family vlog channel called Eight Passengers on YouTube. This was to showcase their life with six kids. Now, some of the children are adults now and of legal age, so I will use their names, but I'm going to use initials through the remainder of the episode for those who are minor still, so that it can protect their identities and anonymity. So, their six children are Sherry, Chad, A, J, R, and E. At that time, family vlogging channels were extremely popular on YouTube, and after only two years, the Frankie Family channel, called Eight Passengers,

skyrocketed to one million subscribers. The family's channel, run primarily by Ruby, focused on the everyday tasks of a stay-at-home mom, like cooking meals, getting kids ready for school, going on outings, vacations, and to church. The 8 Passengers channel became one of the growing number of LDS or Mormon family vlogs, which gave LDS stay-at-home moms a way to earn money while taking care of their children and running a household. Unlike some channels who kept their religion more private, the Frankies were always outspoken about their religious beliefs. In the early days of their channel, they attracted a loyal following of

subscribers who found their content to be relatable and to be entertaining, and at their peak, they had a following of 2.5 million subscribers. Sponsors flocked to the 8 Passengers channel as well, as you can imagine, utilizing the demographic of moms to advertise all sorts of household products. However, after the infamous ad apocalypse on YouTube, videos featuring content for children were demonetized, and sponsors like this became crucial to the financial success of family vlog channels. Now, Ruby has said herself that sponsorships during this time earned their channel millions of dollars. After seeing the success that could be garnered by family vlogging, all of Ruby's siblings started their own successful YouTube channels as well. Now, most YouTubers experience some level of criticism. Let's be real, I know I have. And oftentimes,

viewers with genuine concerns do get labeled as haters or trolls. Now, since the beginning of the 8 Passengers channel, they have had their fair share of haters due to the type of content that Ruby and Kevin were choosing to post about their children. Ruby, who was the primary filmer and editor of the videos, included not only the fun, happy, and memorable milestones that you would think, but she also posted embarrassing moments, punishments, medical information, and details about the children's schooling. Many people thought that the Frankies were invading their children's privacy, and commenters often voiced their concerns that

their whole lives being online could eventually negatively affect their mental health. There were even times when Ruby would use her children for the sponsorship portions of the videos, even going as far as making her children talk about using overnight diapers for wetting the bed after they were already in elementary school. Ruby and other channels have put intimate moments online for viewers as well, such as the girls' first time shaving their legs, bra shopping, going on dates, going to the doctor, and even being sick on the bathroom floor. However, it wasn't just the amount of content that was concerning the eight passengers' viewers. Over time, especially as some of the children were getting older,

Ruby and Kevin began discussing their parenting styles and forms of punishments more and more. There are countless examples of punishments and consequences that Ruby and Kevin came up with for the children, but some of them became more disturbing than others. For example, one of the most viral videos of eight passengers was when Ruby received a text message from her then six-year-old daughter's kindergarten teacher. The teacher told Ruby that he had forgotten her lunch and asked if she could bring her lunch to the school. And this was Ruby's response. Just got a text message from a teacher, and she said that she did not pack a lunch today, and can I bring a lunch over to the school? This happens quite often when you're raising children,

because I know that her teacher is uncomfortable with her being hungry and not having a lunch and it would ease her discomfort if I came to the school with lunch but I responded and just said it was responsible for making her lunches in the morning and she actually told me she did pack a lunch. So the natural outcome is she's just going to need to be hungry and hopefully hopefully nobody gives her food and nobody steps in and gives her a lunch. So some people of course believed that this wasn't even a natural consequence and was just plain cruel. An adult who forgets their lunch at home would have the option of then going and buying a lunch, going home to get a lunch, or asking someone to bring them a lunch

if they wanted. A child with no money and who has no other option but to ask their parent or their teacher for help, which, after all, is what parents are for, then that's how she responds. However, this wasn't the only instance that Ruby used food as some sort of form of punishment. I'm only going to say it one more time and then you're going to lose the privilege to eat dinner. Viewers who consistently tuned into the 8 Passengers channel started to notice a pattern that Ruby and Kevin's oldest son, Chad, and the two youngest children became more or less labeled the problem children of the family. They seemed to always receive the harshest punishments, many of which went viral as well. In one of these videos,

Ruby and Kevin sat down to talk with their viewers about a decision that they had made due to them being what they quote as selfish and not humble. They told the children that for Christmas, instead of receiving gifts, they would be receiving the gift of truth and love. Because knowing people these days, I don't know if people are going to, you know, how they're going to respond. So Kevin and I, we have two, well, we have six children. The two youngest are showing long patterns of selfishness. They have been showing through their choices, their unwillingness to repent, their unwillingness to feel sorrow over some pretty egregious choices that they've made.

So Kevin and I have decided that we are going to give the gift of truth to them this year for Christmas. We are going to give them the gift of boundaries and we're going to give them the gift of repentance. So, so we sat down with them and we, we told these two, um, what our expectations were again. And we let them know how deeply sorrowful we've been because of the choices that they've been making and how it's affected their teachers at school. It's affected their peers. It's affected our home, the siblings um and we just laid it out very clear and we told them that

this year they are not going to be visited by santa so they will and we prepped them we we let them know that the christmas morning their four older siblings will be getting Christmas presents to open and that they will have the gift of love from their dad and I, because we want them to really have a visceral experience that hits them. So up until now, I was really hoping that like keeping them home from school and wiping the floorboards would like really bring pain like like oh my gosh I really want to change this behavior that I've been exhibiting and it didn't it didn't they like it wasn't painful for them they're like oh yay we get to stay home from school and clean floorboards this is kind of fun it's like ah so you know they've had these visceral

experiences uh you know and they haven't they haven't affected them. It's because they're so numb. And so the more numb your child is. The greater experience, the bigger the outcome, they need to wake them up. You're not going to push a boulder with just your hands. You need some real leverage. And the biggest leverage that a little child has is probably Santa Claus. And so I expressed to them that I love your soul more than anything in this world. And I literally would do anything to, to invite you into repentance. And I know parents say that I'll do that I would do anything for my kid,

but really what I think most parents are saying is I would give anything to you if I would pay any price monetarily. I don't know how many parents are actually willing to put any boundary in place that would bring a turnaround, that would really bring repentance. So that is our gift. At the time, both of these children were under 10 years old. And based on footage that Ruby posted of them, they just seemed like normal kids. There were videos like this where Ruby was seen harshly scolding R for simply leaving his socks outside and being made to do push-ups. You're gonna have to go find your shorts. Oh, did you see the socks you threw at the side of the garden?

And you are not going anywhere unless you pick up your junk. You've got crops thrown all around. Now, so you see now I'm using bad language. That's how bad of a mood I'm in. You get your socks picked up and don't you leave your stuff out anymore. Right over there. Run and go pick them up. And then give me 10 push-ups. Put them in your pocket so you can take them down to the hamper and drop and give me 10. Put your hands straight out. They're in. They're not supposed

to be out. Shape your hands forward. There you go. One, two, down further. Bring your butt down. Even though just these few examples seem harsh enough, really the most extreme punishments were directed at Chad. In many videos, Chad's parents would embarrass him by reading his text messages out loud at the dinner table and making him discuss things that should have been kept private. However, it was during 2020 when Chad was sent away that people started becoming ever more concerned with Ruby and Kevin's parenting. During the time that he was away, Ruby never explained why Chad was gone, but it was discovered that they had sent him away to a controversial wilderness camp for troubled teenagers. He programmed where he's going to spend the next eight to ten weeks living in the Anasazi Desert.

Yeah, the desert mountains of Arizona. So you're probably wondering, what did Chad do? Okay, we're not even going to entertain that stuff, but it's an accumulation of things over years, well before we ever started YouTubing or well before we ever got into social media. These types of camps have been heavily scrutinized in recent years after people came out with horror stories of mistreatment, abuse, and even torture. But even after Chad returned home home he was still forced to sleep on a beanbag in the middle of the living room and he had his bed and his bedroom completely

taken away for seven months my bedroom was taken away for seven months and then you give it back like a couple weeks ago i don't think our viewers know that. You've been sleeping on a bean bag for a long time. I've been sleeping on a bean bag since October. And they gave my broom back like two weeks ago. No. In this home, you don't get personal space. Because this is my space. Because I'm the parent. If you want your own personal space,

you'll need to get your own space. This is mine. And as long as you're living in my home, it is my job to know everything about you. You don't get to sneak. You don't get to hide. You don't get to have secrets. Not in my house. Do you see how loving that is? Now, if you're in distortion, you're reeling right now. If you're in distortion, you're ready to pull your hair out right now. You're ready to scream. All of these examples and more caused there to be several reports by concerned viewers

to DCFS and even a petition with nearly 18,000 signatures calling for an investigation into Kevin and Ruby for the alleged harm toward their children. However, at the time, all the reports were claimed to have been unfounded. It seemed like there was an even bigger spotlight on the Frankies and on their parenting, and their videos started becoming more and more sporadic. They went from posting every day to every other day, and then just stopped being on a regular schedule altogether. After this, Ruby attempted to start a clothing company called Ruby Do, but it ended up being largely unsuccessful. By 2022, there were no

new videos being posted to the 8 Passengers channel, but Ruby wasn't gone from the internet or YouTube completely. After her unsuccessful clothing line, Ruby began attending life coach and therapy sessions with a company called Connections. And then she eventually started making appearances on the business's YouTube channel called Connections Classroom with the founder, Jody Hildebrandt. Jody was briefly mentioned in the video where Chad discussed his wilderness camp punishment and the loss of his bed privileges, and he referred to her as his therapist. A phone call yesterday with my therapist, and she taught me about truth and distortion. Mom probably talks about Jodi all the time. I've mentioned Jodi a few times. She has a podcast called Connections with an ex. So why was Ruby developing a relationship with a woman who previously had her son as a client? Well, it turns out that Jodi

wasn't only Chad's therapist at one point, but that Ruby and Kevin sought help from her as well when they were having problems in their marriage. 54-year-old Jodi Hildebrandt is a quote-unquote therapist who, like the Franke family, is from Utah and is a member of the LDS Church. She was married for a short time in the 90s and had two children before she divorced, and she has been single ever since. In 2009, Jodi was placed on a list of recommended therapists for people in the LDS church to seek help for various issues, like marriage counseling and addiction counseling. Specifically, the LDS church views masturbation and viewing pornography, no matter how often, as an addiction that needs repentance and therapy. However, several clients who received services from Jodi claimed that she would relay their

personal business discussed during therapy with church officials. One of these allegations was actually proven, and her license ended up being put on probation for 18 months. So after the 8 Passengers YouTube channel video started fizzling out, Ruby became a life coach and listed as a certified mental fitness trainer for Jodi's Connections company. It seemed like Ruby and Jodi were very like-minded individuals because when she began appearing in videos on the channel, a lot of the messages were very reminiscent of how she already was in the past, just much more extreme. The website JodiHildebrandt.com thoroughly explains what connections is and what it strives to do for its clients. It says that the core teachings of connections is that for a person to achieve a true connection with another human being,

they must not be in distortion. Distortion is something that Jodi came up with, referring to people being addicted to something like work, shopping, games, sleep, social media, driving, receiving compliments, exercise not enough, being codependent in your relationships, living in lust, being overly sexually attracted to your spouse, and controlling and manipulating others. Literally, you could find the definition to fit almost any single situation, which my guess and my suspicion is that was her goal, because then you could tap into a client who is experiencing anything. Jodi explains that everyone is in distortion to some degree, but that she can help you to overcome distortion and live in truth. Jodi teaches that there are three core principles which must be developed in order to truly connect with anyone and to avoid distortion. She says that boundaries need to be set to distance yourself from people in distortion so you are not drawn in with them.

The three core principles of connections are impeccable honesty, rigorous personal responsibility, and humility. She encourages clients to refer family members to join the program so that they can also experience true connection. Jodi teaches that the truth and the three principles are the only way to true happiness in relationships. Members of the group develop a bond by sharing vulnerable experiences with each other and validating each other's experiences. As they continue these patterns, they distance themselves from their families. Family and friends are confused about this new term, distortion, and a whole slew of other new terminology taught by Jodi as the only and absolute way to connect.

They are then encouraged to attend classes so they too can learn how to not be in distortion. If their friends or family ask questions or raise concerns about the teachings, the student often immediately makes a phone call to their Connections support group to avoid being drawn in to that distortion themselves. If the family and friends don't learn these new skills for connection, they will be cut off in the relationship for being in distortion. In addition to the Connections 101 classes, members attend group or weekly meetings with Jodi and other students to discuss in a more intimate setting how they were in distortion the previous week. The revenue from these group and connections classes that Jodi has made was conservatively estimated to exceed $30,000 a month. Now, the other concerning component is that Jodi heavily weaves in her teachings and her truths with the teachings of the LDS church.

Cough, cough, Lori Vallow. Like how Christians capitalize pronouns referring to God. In connections, truth is capitalized, as if to signify that her truth is the same or just as important as God himself. So the connections truths in regards to relationship also carried over into parenthood as well. And Ruby has even blatantly stated that she loves these truths more than her own children, and she doesn't love her children unconditionally, which, let's just say, I think most of us could already tell. I love principals more than my child. Yikes!

That's a really, and that is the truth. That is the truth. It's just so disturbing to hear someone literally say those words and talk about these made up truths as if they are God. Ruby and Jodi would discuss all sorts of topics, but I think the ones pertaining to children and parenting

disturbed people the most. If an adult wants to do culty stuff, believe whatever they want, do a bunch of nonsense, that is fine. But it's when children have ideas and toxic behavior forced on them that it becomes a bigger issue. They don't have a choice. They aren't able to just leave. So that kind of brings us to where we are right now, with all of Ruby's disturbing behavior magnified times 100 when Jodi came into the picture. On August 30th, 2023, a man called 911 after a little boy showed up at his doorstep hungry and thirsty. The little

boy who identified himself as R said that he came from Jodi's house. Now, the man immediately noticed that this little boy was extremely malnourished, and he also had duct tape on his ankles and his wrists. So when he asked him why he had those, why he was duct taped, R told him that it was, quote, personal business. It didn't take anything else for this man and his wife to realize that R needed help, and he needed it fast. So that's when they called 911. I just had a 12-year-old boy show up here at my front door asking for help.

And he said he had just came from a neighbor's house, and we know there's been problems at this neighbor's house. He's emaciated. He's got tape around his legs. He's hungry and he's thirsty. And he asked us to call the police. So he's thirsty. He asked us to call the police. So he's very afraid. Okay and are the neighbors out of their home or is anybody looking for them that you can see? No, we are homes are far enough away. I'm not sure. How did you get out of the house?

The. Forge given out. He said he just left through the porch at the neighbors house. Her name is Jody Hildebrand. And she lives two doors up the street. Yeah, I didn't tie into the houses are far apart. So he walked just under the block to get to our house. He rang my doorbell and asked me to call the police.

Now, as the police were coming into the neighborhood, they were stopped by Jody in her car, who said that she was out looking for a boy. So the police told her that they were out looking for a boy as well, that same boy. And Jodi was basically like, oh, okay, I'll wait at my house. Then once they got to Jodi's neighbor's house and actually laid eyes on R, it was beyond clear that he needed help and he needed it quickly. They began cutting the duct tape off of his legs and they moved him into the ambulance. The smell of flesh was all that the officers could smell and the wounds far beyond what most had ever seen was all that they could

see. When an officer asked R how he got those wounds, R told him that they were caused by ropes that Jody and his mom Ruby had put on him. He also told the officer that they would put cayenne pepper and honey on those wounds as a dressing. So as R was taken to the hospital, the focus now was shifting to finding the other two sisters, which R said were still in the house. Now, you know, I'm not really sure what Jodi thought was going to happen in this moment, but boy, was she acting surprised and like nothing was going on when the police arrived. That's great. Step out of the house. No, I'm not going to step out of the house. Step out of the house. Step out of the house. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We're just going to stay in the house. Wait a minute. How do you come in my house?

Sit right there. They can't come into my house. Just have a seat right there. Do you have a search warrant? Have a seat right there. Do you have a search warrant? Have a seat right there. I'll explain everything after.

Have a seat right there. Do you have a search warrant, sir? We're searching the house. I can tell you what's in the house. Okay. Just have a seat right there for me. Do you have a search warrant? We'll explain it after this.

You can't just come into my house without a search warrant. We'll explain everything after this ma'am. Okay. That's one of the reasons why we're here. So we'll explain after everything's done. After we clear the house and make sure everything's fine. But why are you coming into my house without a certain warrant? We'll explain it after this. But that doesn't make sense. You come into my house and do what you want and then you tell me you don't have a warrant?

No, we'll explain why we did. But don't you have to have a warrant? Not at this moment we don't. We're here on exigent circumstances and I will explain it after this so jody told the police that ruby was on her way back from springville which was where she actually lived and happened to be four hours away she said that there was only one other child in the house so she stood outside on the phone with her attorney while the police searched her house thoroughly and it seemed like she was more concerned about her attorney missing his flight and also some Airbnb guests being freaked out than she was about what was actually happening. Is there anybody else in the house? Yes. Two kids? There's a little girl. Just one? She's right over here. Okay. How old is she? She'll be 10 next week. Okay. And she's on this side?

Mm-hmm. I have Airbnb guests over there. Probably scared them to death. Okay. Adam, I know you have a flight to catch, so... Well, so they're in your home because you lied to them about... Yeah, I've got a police officer standing right here. Okay.

So, I don't want you to miss your flight, so... Well, I'm not going to miss my flight. I'm okay for a minute. Okay. Have they found her yet? Yeah, yeah. I think there's somebody else in the house. There's not. And yes, you heard that right, guys. Apparently, there were Airbnb guests staying inside this home while all of this was going on, while R and E were being held and tortured while guests were

staying in the home. I mean, it is bizarre. She also appeared to be crying during some of the search. According to R, he had two sisters in the house, but the police were only able to find one child. She was hiding inside a closet in the bathroom. Now, initially, it seemed like they thought that the child was a boy. But after talking to R while he was at the hospital, they learned that he actually had a little sister whose name was E, and her head had been shaved. That's why there was a mistake where they thought that it was a little boy at first, and R had told the police that he hadn't seen her in over a month.

Now, when they approached E, E was super scared, and she would not come out of this closet. While she was in the closet, different medics and officers tried their best to support her and let her know that she was safe. They were officers. They were there to help. She requested pizza, so they brought her a personal-sized pizza and also a drink. She ate all of that, and she was still hungry. So then they ordered a large pizza, and she went on to eat two slices of that. They continued trying to get E to come out of the closet so that she could go to the hospital to be looked at, to be treated, to see what was going on. You don't want to talk? Okay. There's nothing at all you want to talk about at all? It's okay to talk to me.

Are you scared? But she told them she was worried that Jodi didn't want her to go to the hospital. And she also said that she was scared that they would give her vaccines and that, quote, vaccines kill you. But finally, nearly after six hours after that 911 call had been made, they were finally able to convince E to go to the hospital. During the time that they were trying to convince E to go to the hospital, Ruby had shown up at the house and they placed her in handcuffs. Now, what's so weird about this is she didn't seem phased at all about what was happening with her children. She seemed more like she was annoyed and irritated more than anything. So eventually, both Ruby and Jodi were taken into the police station for further questioning.

During that, Jodi tried to manipulate the police. I'm a psychologist. I've watched people flip things all the time. So I get it. I sit on your side. I get it. So you guys seem nice people. Yeah. I'm not trying to be difficult. This is really, if you knew all the pieces, I think you'd have a lot of empathy.

I'd like to just tell you, but I don't know who you are. I don't know if you're going to flip my words. I don't know who you are. I don't know if you're going to flip my words. I don't know. And I'm an honest person as well, so we get along great. And he just said, do not say anything. And Ruby, well, she completely refused to speak at all, which yes, technically it is her right, but she literally didn't even answer if she had children or not. She just went mute, would not speak. Was this your water? I'm gonna... It's yours if you want it. We'll save that. We also have snacks if you need anything to eat. So I know I introduced myself to you earlier, but my name is Detective Bates and this is Sergeant Tobler. We're just here to talk to you about kind of a few things involving your kids.

So first, do you live down here, about where you live or how many kids you have? So we just spoke with your husband and he said you guys have six kids. Are those all together? Are those all your kids? I can wait all day, so it's up to you if you talking to one of us? Or do you want me to step out for a moment? Or if you feel more comfortable talking to him, I can step out? I'll wait until I have a lawyer.

Okay. Do you want to answer that? Or you don't want to talk to us about anything? So yeah, this is just your chance to tell us. We're just trying to get your side of the story. So it's your chance to do that. But it's up to you. We're just here to talk. And I'm not asking any criminal questions. If you don't want to talk to us, just let us know and we'll be done.

I've already told you. You want a water okay thank you so i think this is the glimpse in which we really are seeing the true ruby refusing to cooperate again yes it is her right but with all of the information about her children coming out not a concern in the world she's acting more irritated than anything and guys it gets even worse so with both adults and then both younger children found the attention was now turning to the world. She's acting more irritated than anything. And guys, it gets even worse. So with both adults and then both younger children found, the attention was now turning to the other two minor children, J and A, and they were trying to figure out where they were. The police department then contacted the Springville Police Department, where the Frankie house is located, and they provided them with a warrant to go search the house for the other children. Seven police cars showed up outside the Springville home with guns drawn,

and they ended up having to put a hole through the door to get inside. Ultimately, the two other children were not located inside the home and were determined to be with a family friend in a city called American Fork, around 30 minutes away. I'm Officer Hawkins, sir. I'm looking for Pam. Is Pam in today? Yeah, that's my wife. Is your wife, she's here? Hi.

Hello, Pam. How are you doing? Good. I'm Officer Hawkins, American Fork Police Department. If you can, just for a second, we just had to go over some stuff. You have a warrant? Yeah, we do. Let me see it, please. So it's in my car, but right now,

my concern is... Will you just tell them you're all right? Well, we have to physically see her. We'll go ahead and get the copy of the warrant for you, okay? You have a warrant for my house? Specifically for you. Yeah, for you and the child. Yeah. Okay, So, as of right now, I'll just need you to give your phone to your husband. Okay. Okay. And as of this moment, you're going to be detained right now, okay? Okay. Okay, so is there anything on you?

No. Okay, perfect. Just put your hands in front of you, okay? I'm just going to place you temporarily under arrest. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'll explain to you. What are you guys doing? I've explained this already. I'm being as courteous as I can, okay? Okay, well, I'm going to call an attorney. That's fine. I don't know what's going on. Yeah, I don't even know what this is all about.

Okay, so I'm going to explain to you when we get to the car. Yes, I just explained to you that you're being detained right now. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to walk you to my car, okay? And I'm going to explain everything to you when we get there, okay? Tied up and bound because you... I didn't make her scrub... Do something, you know? I didn't make her scrub the floor and they vacuumed and stuff because I have company coming tonight out of...

From Costa Rica. Okay. So... But she did it of her own free will. We had lunch. Yeah. We went to Rolly's Farm and had ice cream. Those children are...

I don't know the full details of how mistreated or how malnourished those children are all I know is that's the words and treatment that they used yeah which means that they are severely concerned of her well-being and every child that's in that home okay so they'll just have to talk to her and because there has been I've been a part of many dcfs cases where as soon as the parents are hooked up kids are taken if there's any kids that aren't in the home immediately when the kids are taken guess what they're scurrying around other family members are picking them up that way the parent can come back and grab them before dcfs takes them oh yeah i'm telling you you may be a good person but there's a lot of people in this world that aren't right well if

dcfs is supposed to take her then they can take her i mean i i'm not going to try to fight that i mean i you know that's what they're going to come talk to you about they left already so they should be here in the next 10 15 minutes but springville just left as i got off the phone with him so he's probably going to be about dcfs or whatever it is is coming yeah so though dcfs will come for their part and then the detective. So they're just going to ask her if she came willingly to my house and if everything's okay? And she has to be taken into state custody. Oh, she does? Because I think her parents were arrested. Okay. But after that

was when her and Jodi were hauled off to jail. They were put in the same car and they even sat next to each other during the ride. And on the way to jail, Jodi made sure to tell the officer to not let the kids around other kids. And we're going to get into more of those allegations in a minute here and their reasoning for why the kids shouldn't be around other kids. So the two of them were hauled off to the jail and they were initially charged with two counts of felony child abuse. Once the news of the arrest spread,

a lot of people were wondering how exactly we got here. Lastly, how did this overly strict but seemingly somewhat normal mom, who despite her controversial parenting decisions, never really had any indicators that she would physically torture her kids? So how did she allow this to happen? And how the heck did we get here? Also, how in the world did these women think that they could ever get away with this? So now let's talk more about the person who many people initially considered the mastermind behind everything, Jodi Hildebrandt. So many things in this case are so eerily similar and reminiscent to the Vallow DayDaybell case, where you have this woman,

Lori, who already believes that she was this powerful, spiritually gifted woman, exalted goddess, I think was the term, and you have her who meets this man, Chad Daybell-Dumbbell Loser, who was essentially part of a fringe group of LDS members, and they really took their beliefs to the extreme. Chad said that he had visions and was now an enlightened, powerful, translated being from his previous near-death experiences, and he believed and preached that he was now able to speak to God, that God was working through him, and he was a messenger to help usher the 144,000 and set up the new Jerusalem, which would be in Rexburg, Idaho, and also to prep for the

second coming, which he said was July of 2020. And hi, we're all here. I think we can agree that that second coming never quite happened. Sorry, Chad. And not only all of that crazy BS, but he also thought that he would be rewarded for his actions in the afterlife. And Lori totally believed it. Like, truly believed it, hook, line, sinker, to the extreme. So now Lori, a previously somewhat normal mother who already had a predisposition to making extreme religious leaps of different ideas, believing all of Chad's batshit crazy visions for the future, so much so that she allowed her husband, her two youngest children, and her boyfriend's wife to be murdered because they were zombies and possessed by dark spirits. And of course, that just happened to have financial

benefits for her, or so she thought, I guess, in Charles' case, and she still is in that delusion to this day. Interestingly, one of the books that was so relevant to Chad Daybell, almost like the basis of all of his teachings, was Visions of Glory. And you know who else loves that book and has based much of their life's work and beliefs on that? Can you guess? I'll give you a hint. Starts with a J. Jodi Hildebrandt. What is the likelihood of that? Two culty nutjobs using the same book to put into play their insane spiritual beliefs and visions. Now let's take a pause on Jodi. It's no secret that Ruby has had her fair share of critics, and rightfully so. For some of her decisions, the way she was exploiting her children,

regarding making her children content for the entire internet to just watch, judge, comment on, speculate, etc., combined with a parenting style that many believe goes far beyond just strict parenting. But would she be in the position that she's in today, in jail without bond for felony child abuse charges, if she had never met Jodi Hildebrandt and got involved with her company, Connections? Was meeting Jodi in some way a catalyst? And what is Connections? Is Connections a cult? Is Ruby, in fact, brainwashed? Not that that makes her any less guilty in any sort of way, just like Lori Vallow. But what exactly are they teaching at Connections? How long has this been going on? And most importantly, how many other children whose parents were involved in Connections

have had to endure torture at the hands of Jodi or their own parents. This is Connections According to Jodi. So let me tell you a little bit about what I've been doing. For the last 20 years, I've been trying to figure out how to help my clientele. I've been working with tens of thousands of people for 20 years, and i've been asking god about how to help heal them from this array of mental and emotional illness okay and so i have been on this journey trying to understand how to use principles that are gods in helping people heal so that was a clip from the Eternal Core Conference in April of 2020. In this, Jodi describes how she got to this belief system. Jodi grew up as the sixth of seven children, and she described her parents as emotionally shut down, and that she didn't realize that as a child, but she does now, saying, and I quote,

they were emotionally completely not available for me or for any of the other children, and so chaos went on in our house a lot. And none of us were really allowed to emote other than to get angry. So she learned how to be really nice, kind, helpful, gracious. Sure enough, I ended up with an eating disorder, right? I started trying to control everything because I had no outlet to emote my emotions. I had nobody there to validate me and say, yeah, that makes sense that when your brother, you know, puts you into a pretzel, that that would hurt and that you would want to tell him stop. You don't like that. I wasn't allowed to do that. Here's the key.

This is the key. Responsibility. Responsibility. I am responsible for three things. I've learned this over, like I said, over the last decade plus. I am responsible for my own perception, which means my thoughts. And then when I perceive, I then feel emotions. And when I feel emotions, it's because of my perceptions. And when I perceive and then feel emotions, then I then choose to behave. And so I'm responsible for that whole process in everything, even when I'm depressed. So when I talk to people, they'll say, yeah, yeah, that's nice and good, but I have depression. And I'm like, okay, wait, stop. You missed what I just said to you. And then they'll say to me, are you suggesting that I'm responsible for my depression? And I'll

say, yes, you are. That's one thing. If you don't know me, I'm really blunt, really direct. Some people hate that. Some people love that. It's like, tell me more. That feels right. So there's four principles I want to hone in today on. Choice, honesty, responsibility, and vulnerability, which means be open, be teachable. I'm hoping that everybody in this room is vulnerable today, that they're open, that you're willing to consider what I'm saying because this is a brand new modality. Not that responsibility is a new concept, but the way I'm angling it towards mental health is brand new. So if you're depressed, it's your fault. And you're not an unworthy person, but you don't have honesty, responsibility, or vulnerability. And

now by addressing these issues, which she says is a brand new modality that she came up with, which hello, no, it's not. But if you come to Jodi, she can help you. Other principles that I learned is that in order to connect to yourself slash another person, I have to live honest, responsible, humble. Because when I'm not honest, responsible, and humble, I am then disconnected. And disconnection manifests like this, control, aggression, anxiety, these presentations where the person is either unknowingly or deliberately not being willing to take responsibility for those three principles, their perceptions, their emotions, and their behavioral choices. So I'm either in a relationship or I'm just in a dynamic. Dynamic just means that you and I are talking, but we're not connecting, right?

Everybody here knows what it feels like to connect with somebody. I've been talking to many of you over the course of this morning and this afternoon, and numerous of you, you walk away and I'm like, whoa, that person's connected. They're connected. The other principles to live with include characters of truth, humbleness, honesty, responsibility, and vulnerability, or else you are disconnected and you manifest control, aggression, and anxiety. She goes on to say that she's learned that the only thing she can control are her thoughts, feelings, and behavioral choices, and that she

cannot control anything else. And then she uses an example where she talks about a parent-child relationship. Oh, I wish I could control them. I wish I could get them to do what I want them to do, and you just can't. But when you try, you then disconnect from them because you go into a controlling posture. You go into a dynamic instead of a relationship with them. So people will say, well, if I love this person, then how do I get them to, and I'm like, can you hear how you're going down control lane? You can't get them to. Your job is to speak the truth to them about their responsibility, which is they're responsible for their own perceptions, their own feelings, and their own behavioral choices. So no more of this. You made me do this because of you, I feel. If you wouldn't have done that, then I wouldn't have done this. All of that is called distortion,

which means distorting the truth. So by controlling others, that is distortion or distortion of truth. And then she says that each and every one of us is responsible for learning these principles for ourselves. And then if you have charge over anyone else, such as children, grandchildren, clients, etc., you have a responsibility to teach them these principles too, so that they too can be released from distortion. Okay, now this next part is actually particularly interesting because of how Jodi says that God told her about distortion. I was teaching about shame and I went to God and I said, people can't understand the word shame. Do you have another word? Can you give me another word? And I heard one day, distorting the truth. And I was like, oh, brilliant, distortion.

Every single one of us goes into distortion. So and now the grand finality of what Jodi believes to be her purpose and her goal throughout all of this. To me, this is the most grandiose and almost manical rhetoric that reminded me of how authoritarian leaders and dictators are portrayed in movies, giving speeches about taking over the world or something like that, and almost manacle rhetoric that reminded me of how authoritarian leaders and dictators are

portrayed in movies, giving speeches about taking over the world or something like that. Or even Dr. Evil. I don't know. Take a listen, and if you're watching this over on YouTube, let me know in the comments what you think. Personally, I don't think that she's speaking in metaphor. I think she legitimately wants to spread what she perceives as God's message to her to the entire world. If you will stay inside truth, you will not become ill. You just won't. Now, I know there's some people in the audience probably like, well, I don't know about that. Try me out. You start living in truth. I don't know anybody who lives in truth that is emotionally and spiritually sick. I don't know anybody.

I don't know thousands of people who have done this. My desire is to spread this throughout the whole entire world, to teach as many people and therapists and mental health professionals and health professionals who want to start empowering their clients. Regardless of where your client has been, if they've had traumas or abuses, they can heal. Jodi says that if you're living in the truth, you can't get sick, and you can also avoid many other

health-related problems. Well, Jodi, when you were arrested, your lawyer literally asked for an expedited bond hearing because you were experiencing a life-threatening medical issue. So was that a choice? Were you living in truth? I don't know. You tell me. One of the things I also found while researching was a comment in the Moms of Truth Facebook group. I took this screenshot myself, which you can see over on the YouTube version, so I can 100% verify this was not edited in any way. But it's a comment under a video of Jodi, where someone asks if she has had Botox. And Jodi responds, I have not had any Botox. It's called living in truth.

The complexion of truth. Okay. Insert mega eye roll here. I can't. I just can't with her. And let me just add really quick too here. Anytime somebody is talking about their direct connection and speaking to God about applying something called principles or being in distortion or dark

spirits or what's the other one? A suppressed person. All of these things, just for me, my opinion, cult, cult, cult, cult, cult, cult, cult. Because nobody else uses those words. Nobody else uses those descriptors. It's somebody who is trying to, in my opinion, brainwash and kind of do some sort of sick mind control over other people. Otherwise, you don't use phrases like that. You definitely don't use verbiage like that. It, to me, just screams cult. I can't say it loud enough. Just my opinion. Don't come and try to sue me, Jodi. Now, one person who could have seen this behavior coming from a mile away was one of Jodi's own family members, her

niece, Jessie. Jessie spoke out about the traumatic experience that they went through on the Mormon Stories podcast and also multiple other news stations. The full link to the Mormon Stories podcast episode will be in the show notes, but take a listen to this piece of it. I was giving Book of Mormons out at school. I had never done drugs. I had never had anything close to sex. I didn't even know. She was convinced I was also masturbating. I was like, I had a masturbation problem.

I didn't even know female anatomy people could masturbate. I didn't even know that. But because she was convinced, I was also not allowed to use tampons because she was convinced I was masturbating with them, which is insane. So things got progressive. This sounds like projection. I don't know if it's projection. It's so, I know. So things got progressively worse and worse and worse because i wasn't getting better she was she she would say i'm trying to make you so physically uncomfortable that it forces the sin out and so that's when she started i would had to sleep outside in the snow that's when I was, um, so, uh, when she would lock me in this, in her, she worked in Lehigh

in like the, there was a little side office closet kind of room. It was like a little bit bigger than a closet, but it didn't have any windows. It had like a table, a chair, an actual closet. And that's kind of about, that's about it. So that's where I, when I, when I was pulled out of school and I started living with her full time because she worked, I went with her to work and that's where I stayed. And sometimes she would lock me in it. Sometimes she wouldn't. Um, but I was not allowed to leave. That was like rule number one. I was not allowed to leave that room. And, um And she would have me write out my sins on a piece of paper. And every day she gave me the same piece of paper. And I would have to write out

my sins. And these sins that I was writing out, I was like, and again, I believed all this. I believed this fully. So I was like, oh, there must be more in me. I'm trying. I'm trying to think of it. Oh, one time I lied to my best friend, Scotty. And like, these are the types of things I'm writing out. And then she would come back in, take that paper, read it to me, make me get on my hands and knees and beg for forgiveness as she read this back to me. And then she was like, no, this isn't it. This is not it. This isn't all. There there's more there's more and there wasn't and i would start making things up because i was like i don't know and because she was convinced there was more things got worse and worse and worse and she said i cannot be around my mom i can't ever be around

her again because if she told me the sky was yellow, I would believe her. She has this ability to like alchemy, like just get into your soul. It's like, it is horrifying. And there's no real way of explaining it to people unless you've experienced it. Or if you've experienced this level of emotional abuse, there's no way of really like having, there's no way of understanding it. And, or if you've experienced this level of emotional abuse, there's no way of really like having you, there's no way of understanding it. Um, so I narcissistic cult leader comes to mind. Yeah. Um, I don't know if this is, if this is fully true, but I, from what I understand, she's been diagnosed with many, many issues, including psychopathy. But Jodi is the mastermind here, not Ruby.

Ruby is still responsible and should be arrested for harming her children, for sure. And I'm sure Jodi used that, used what was already there, which is what she does. She uses what's already there to her advantage. Jodi is the one doing this. This is Jodi's therapeutic ideas. These are Jodi's ideas that she has been doing for over 14 years. This is not new. this is a pattern um and i i cannot i'm i'm i'm just so grateful that these children a were taken out of out of that care but not care but out of custody from them. She, she believes this. This is the thing that she fully believes in her own bullshit. She believes that she is inspired by God.

Jody. Jody. Jody. And so when you believe, when you have that level of delusions of grandeur, you are so powerful and so convincing to people and she and when you and when you when you when you uh preface it as a i'm doing this because i'm saving their soul in a in a in a system and in a culture that i mean she's just playing right into it she's just

playing right into those hands of like of course i want my child's soul to be saved of course yeah no pornography pornography is the worst thing is just is so evil she believed if you watch her belief is if you watch porn one time you're an addict and if you're an addict which that would make most people of the universe an addict um then you need surgery because you are sick and satan is working through you and so and i think she i think it also plays into this like you are special kind of belief that i think a lot of people like the mormon church kind of instills which is something that i had to like really unlearn because i i i held on to this belief for a long time that like oh oh, all of the suffering is for a purpose. All of the suffering is preparing me.

All of the suffering is, you know, purifying me. It's making me humble. It's making me teachable, you know, like Job. And I think a lot of people justify or rationalize behavior and treatment because of that. I'm just speculating here, but one of the things that is so bizarre about this is how much projection Jodi has. In addition to this interview, Jesse also mentioned how much Jodi has criticized the church, how much she hates men, specifically that the vast majority of men are evil, including

church leaders, and how some of the leaders are actually idiots, but that Jodi had all of the answers, almost in the way of jealousy or bringing somebody down just because they have what you want. And in Jodi's case, I believe that it was power. Jesse also said one of the most chilling things to me, and it was, if Jodi was born a man, it's terrifying to think about how much power she would have. So just as Jesse has said in interviews, Jodi is still doing the same thing. I think she's making things up about Ruby's son, Russell, and honestly trying to make him so physically uncomfortable that he confesses or gets out of his distortion and then goes along with all of the ideology of connections. When I was going through the podcast episodes, just the names

alone, I kept thinking, why is there such a focus on children or teens and giving advice to parents about how to, in my opinion, control them or shape them to Jodi's standards regarding sexuality. And even just that statement alone is so creepy, but so many episodes were about that. What is this obsession about these sexual elements in children? In one of the Connections podcast episodes from November of 2022, Ruby talks about medical gauze on children's wounds, and it is so disturbing, but it's also so specific to what they were just arrested for and what the police found at Jodi's house recently. Of course, it could be a coincidence that Ruby happened to make up the exact example her children would later suffer from, but I don't really think so. You cannot. You cannot put welts on your child's legs and then lovingly apply gauze and expect healing.

Now, you might help the scars go away, but the spirit has absorbed the hatred and the venom. So my question is, how many other parents were given this exact same advice? And more than that, how the hell is she still convincing parents to do this? Again, it feels so eerily similar to Lori and Chad Daybell, where it seems like Lori was extremely susceptible to these ideas being truths. I think it's very similar to Ruby being susceptible to Jodi's parenting advice, being like the word of God or holier than thou, not only because of her profession, but because of her ideological teachings. And the things that we show and share and the things that many of you are criticizing and calling

abusive are actually things that mental health professionals have counseled us to do we got accused of child abuse when we sent Chad to Anasazi guess what the first thing that they did was take a bed away they don't have beds Kevin literally says they aren't doing anything wrong and that everything was at the advice of a therapist, which of course, that therapist is Jodi. And this was all to justify their parenting styles to the public. This is just my opinion and speculation, but part of me wonders if, for Ruby specifically, there was another element here. It's been speculated that Ruby has some

characteristics of narcissism. And if we're to pretend that's true, and she is, well, wouldn't Jodi's entire message and ideology give Ruby the biggest confirmation bias of all time? Because now she's hearing from an expert, an expert therapist in family and marriage-based counseling, that maybe her ideas of harsh punishment meant that she was actually the best parent, that she was enlightened, she was an enlightened being, she was right the whole time, everybody else is wrong, and she used that as a way to feel justified in her actions and make her believe further that she's doing this for her children to save their souls? And if that's true, what's in it for Jodi in all of this? What is her motive

in all of this? Personally, I think she saw Ruby as a meal ticket, a Mormon mom influencer with a very large following that Jodi could use as a way to spread her ideology and thinking to the world, which yes, I know it's insane, but I can see it. A lot of these Mormon moms in that community and who follow the LDS faith loved Ruby's family, loved watching the passengers videos, idolized them until the parenting styles got a little bit controversial, but loved them. So if Jodi were to step into that and say, I'm the family counselor, I'm the family therapist. This family trusts me. Don't you think that these Mormon mothers who maybe were wannabe vloggers, maybe not, maybe just idolized from afar this family, but don't you think that if they were to bear witness to all of that, it would carry weight

with them so that if they were having issues within their own families, within their own marriages, they could reach out to Jodi and say, oh my gosh, Jodi, who helped Ruby Frankie's family, who works with them, who works with the Eight Passengers channel, she's going to help my family. It's only X amount of dollars. Write the check. Let her help us. It seems like a very smart tactic and honestly not very far-fetched in my opinion. And guys, we're going to get into more of that after we hear from the first sponsors of today's episode. So at this point in researching this case, I became convinced that this was absolutely, no doubt, in black and white, a cult. Oh, it's true. There we are. Hi, we are live in Mapleton, Utah at a home of somebody who is learning how to be a mental fitness trainer. And we have Ruby here. Ruby is a part of the original 10 women that are being trained to

become mental fitness trainers. So Ruby, you want to tell us about what a mental fitness trainer is? Yes. So we are getting mentally fit the same way your body would get physically fit by running and lifting weights and working with a personal trainer. We are getting ready to be your mental fitness trainer. We're getting truth, really easy to teach. We're making it very simple, boiling it down to principles. That's how you're going to understand truth is really knowing principles, being able to put words to it and help you. And you're going to feel so much better. Absolutely.

So I'm just going to span over here. We've got, I can't see. There we go. Tori and Sherry, how are you feeling about what you're getting ready to go out and do, Teaching truth to the world. Excited. So excited.

Excited. Yeah. Coming to a town near you. And here's Kim and Jess. Hello. Becky, Liz, Michelle. And then we got Johnny over there. And Johnny.

And Johnny. And me. And there's Paige. Did you get Pam? Nope. Pam's over here. There Johnny. And me. And Pam. Did you get Pam? Nope. Pam's over here. Here's Pam. Hello.

Johnny is our male person who comes in and does the role play for the male so we can practice. So he's quite talented to do the role plays with us. So we appreciate Johnny. Johnny's a man of truth as well. He's also a to do the role plays with us, so we appreciate Johnny. Johnny's a man of truth as well, and he's also a mental fitness trainer. So, so glad that you're with us. And any of you who are interested in becoming a mental fitness trainer, we are going to open that up to train other people. So give us a call or email us at support at connectionsclassroom.com,

and maybe you can come to the next retreat for the come work out with us. That's right. Come work out. Put you to work. Bye. It has all of the makings of a cult down to a T. And someone who left connections almost a year ago commented about the reasons why she left online. She said there are six reasons why I leftions, even though I had already learned good things

and prepaid for three months of group, which wasn't over at the time she left. The first one was shame-based learning. She said, they drill the material through put-downs and labeling. It's even traumatic for some people, and they say if you disagree with them, then you are wrong, even though they teach you that there's no right or wrong,

and they intensely shame you for it, even though they teach against feeling shame. Second is crazy making. They teach you that your reality is off, to not trust your own judgment. They tell you that you did something that you didn't even do, and when you can verifiably see that you didn't, they gang up on you and aggressively repeat over and over that you are wrong and that you did that thing, and you have to admit it. Or they will cut you off their terrible communication until you admit you did this terrible thing. To any people individually in connections, phone calls, and in the group setting, you'll all be cut off. They won't let you move on until you admit it, even if you really don't see that you did that thing. And you can't just admit that you did it.

You have to show that you feel really bad about it, using the steps of repentance, but in a twisted way. It's confusing because the principles they are teaching are true and good, and yet something feels off. It wasn't until I got disentangled from it that I realized that it feels off, because you can't learn from them unless you're willing to compromise your integrity and just comply. The third reason was using God to push their point, saying if you disagree with them, you are disagreeing with God. The fourth reason is an environment that breeds codependency. Their method is quite effective for helping those with addictions come off of their addiction.

It's absolutely amazing. If I had an addiction, I might actually sign up again. Unfortunately, it appears they are trading one dependency for another. Jodi has people working for her that don't get paid. They seem just to be happy that she trusts them with the responsibility. I asked her in conversation how many people she had working for her that she paid, and she evaded the question. She also teaches against individuality. It's set up for you to remain in it. One lady in my group said it was her last week in the group and then thanked everyone for helping her learn. But then, many women ganged up on her and shamed her for leaving,

so she stayed. Those who learn from her in groups and individually spend about $10,000 per year to connections, and they have done this for years, scared to quit due to their own dependency. It is unacceptable to work on changing what you want to change in your life. I started the group with three specific areas of my life that seemed unmanageable to me that I wanted to change. They said I was in distortion if I wanted to focus on those. They require hours of indoctrinating in their methods each day, and you have to track it as well. If you spend less time because, for instance, you're sick or on vacation or it's Christmas, they shame you for it and aggressively say that you've dropped responsibility. The fifth

reason being that they talk bad about you behind your back. When they find something wrong with you, instead of teaching you about that thing, getting curious about it, if they are even right about the assumption they are making, they aggressively tell others about it. They talked negatively and aggressively about me in the men's group, and Jodi individually talked badly about me to someone else during his $175 an hour one-on-one with her. They called someone I love to talk bad about me, and he, having been deeply embedded in connections, listened, and didn't stop them from this inappropriate behavior. It's a completely different and intense community with a completely different language. They define so many words differently, which I think is generally helpful and common with therapists, but this is extreme." And the last reason being that connections promotes cutting people out of your life.

Praise isn't given in the group for learning a new concept. It's given when you set unhealthy distancing boundaries with your loved ones. She advocates for leaving spouses at the drop of a hat instead of working together when there is a problem. The principle of being responsible for your own stuff is true, but that's not what this is. This is fault-finding, and then using that as evidence to push people away. As far as I know, Jodi herself is estranged from everyone in her family and has very few friends.

It teaches in Richest Man in Babylon that you couldn't learn how to be rich from those who aren't rich. Likewise, it doesn't make sense to learn how to connect with people from someone who isn't able to connect herself. So what do you think? Is connections a cult? Did Ruby's husband Kevin buy into this as well? And speaking of Kevin, you might be wondering where the hell he was when all of this was happening, and also what his reaction was after Ruby and Jodi's arrest. Well, he was interviewed. Listen to this. So are they all living with you or? No, I haven't seen them for over a year. Any of them? No, none of them. For a year?

Over a year. I've been in a separation. From who? From my wife and family. What's your wife's name? Ruby. Ruby? When's the last time you saw Ruby?

The last time I's name? Ruby. Ruby? When was the last time you saw Ruby? The last time I saw her was the 18th of this month. She requested me to sign over vehicles or the titles to the vehicles, the vehicle that she drives were all in my name. When's the last time you physically saw Roussel or Eve? The day that I moved out, July 24th of 2022. 24th of 2022. 24th of 2022? Or July 25th. When we separated, we were going on 22 years. Okay. And during your marriage, how was disciplining your kids?

How would you discipline your kids? Yeah, I'm not going to answer that question. Okay that's fine. Have you been separated or since they lived here in the city of Ivins have you communicated with your wife regarding like discipline with your kids or their care or their physical well-being? No. So is she doing this on her own, just telling you how your kids are? She's not telling me anything about the kids.

Who's this female Jodi that your wife looks at? Do you know a female named Jodi? She is a therapist and a life coach, I coach. Do you respect her? Do I respect her? I think she's a very honest, truthful person, yes. Okay. You place value on Jodi? I don't know what that means.

Do you value what she says and how she treats it? Is your wife a client of hers? Is your wife a partner of hers? Is your wife a roommate with her? Your kids are living in her house is what I'm trying to say. I'm not aware of that. But I know that they've been in business for the last year filming.

Who's they? Ruby and Jody. Ruby and Jody's in business. They film podcasts. So every week a podcast goes up and I listen to it. So I don't recall the exact time, but sometime before 11 o'clock today, we received a phone call from 9-1-1 on our dispatch that a 12 to 13 year old boy was knocking on doors in the neighborhood asking for food water that he was severely emaciated that

he had was emaciated skinnywny, malnutritioned, not enough food, not enough water to sustain life. So he had duct tape on his extremities, on his hands, on his ankles, and those were covering rope birds that were used to tie him down. Take a second and think about what I just said. That's the condition of your son. Given that information, your son was taken to the hospital.

A warrant has been applied and granted by the Department of Child and Family Services to remove your son from your wife's care. So no one right now is going to have access to these two children based on their physical condition. Do you understand that? I understand. Do you, would you condone that behavior? Would I condone that behavior? That's my job.

My job is to find out your knowledge of the treatment of these precious children. Again, I don't know the details or I don't know where they come from, but as you describe that, that sounds... Horrible, horrible. Disgusting. No human being should be treated like that. I, yeah, okay. That's my thoughts, but again, we might be different on that. Um. Yeah, okay. That's my thoughts. But again, we might be different on that. We're going to let you sit here for a second, okay? We're going to go out and talk. I'm not saying you're still not free to go.

Are you under arrest? Absolutely not. We just have lots of questions we're going lots of questions. Lots. Okay. Okay. Because your children are under medical care right now. And what does that mean? It means that you don't have access to my understanding is that they are. What is that? They're in the custody of DCFS. And they will be for the next. There's a medical hold on them right now. So for at least the next 72 hours, based on our understanding. At least the next 72 hours. They're in observation. They're being watched. DCFS is going to provide you that information, and they can better answer your questions along those lines.

What's going to happen to my wife? I love my wife. I don't know. I'm being honest with you. I don't know. Haven't had any issues with you. I don't remember any charges against my wife. Possibly. I think given the circumstances, that's highly appropriate. But again, I don't know your wife.

I was hoping to gain some insight from But again, I don't know your wife. I was hoping to gain some insight from you, but I don't necessarily know that that's something you wanted to... I trust her. Or you wanted to travel down with me, so... And all without legal representation. Yeah, all right, I get it. But I love my wife, and I trust my wife.

And so, I mean, this feels like getting run over by a steam truck while you're sharing with me today. Yeah. You guys can tell you're caught off guard. I thought I was just coming here to pick up my kids, and for what, I don't know what or why, but... And I was finally able to take it back with me. Like, I want this. You realize that I have a picture of my family on my wall. And I look at it every day. And I work.

I work every day. So I can get back to my family and save my family. Everything you're sharing to me just sounds like a made-up story. I have no idea what you're talking about. Like... It's just, it sounds like a horror movie I get it. You're all doing your jobs. I get it. I understand. And this is my life.

I just want my kids. I just want my kids. I just want my family. I don't know what's going on. I don't know why these things that you described happen. I don't know it's almost like I want to say I'm sorry you must have somebody else because It's like, am I in the right conference room here? No. That's what I feel like.

It's reality. I'm having a hard time accepting this and dealing with this. And you're telling me that you're taking my kids from me. I don't know what my plans are. My plans are to go to college. And you're telling me that you're taking my kids from me. I don't know what my plans are. My plans are to go to college. And I figured this out. Right.

And um... I am just heartbroken for what you all are sharing with me. And, um... I just, I feel like... I feel responsible. Separating the feeling. It hurts. And the I wish I was to bear it husband. I know you're all there in your jobs.

And I know you all have the best interest in the kids. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thanks. That means a lot. I just want my kids back. I want my family back. I want my wife back.

After being interviewed, Kevin was never charged. But still, the question of course remained, was he going to sympathize with Ruby or was he going to stick by his children? She didn't ever come back. So that's when I asked if she would co-sign on a loan if I found a house. And maybe I could Airbnb it or rent it out. I've been playing with numbers in my head, and I think I could make something. But I don't want to be dumb. I want to be very conservative. So I pulled the money, and I have it in a bag. With you? Do the police have it?

Well, I don't know what the police took. I don't know what the police have. But the bag is at Jody's house? They can't just take people's money. I mean, that's not right. Well, they're not going to take the money, but when they have a search warrant, they have access to everything in the house. I'm sure.

Yeah. I have a feeling we're going to need that money. Okay. I just received a text from Ted Dawson out of the blue. Hmm? His door... Ted Dawson, who I haven't heard from in years. He just texted you?

Yeah. in years. He just texted you? Yeah, just to worry about... So, he said, Stormy sent me an article and it just broke my heart. I just wanted you to know I'm thinking about you and if I can ever be a resource. We are always here. Are we in the news? It sounds like at least you're in the news. I don't know about me. I don't know what he's talking about.

I'm wondering if they're in the news. I don't know about me. I don't know what he's talking about. I'm wondering if they went to Sherry to like ask her questions. I don't know. These bookings are public. I know they are, and... Yeah, maybe it was a boasting. This is a witch hunt.

The devil's been after me for years. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, maybe it was a blessing. This is a witch hunt. The devil's been after me for years. And I was an attorney.

Okay, well, you know that this phone call is being recorded. Trust you. They're going to be in the hospital for three days. It's so weird. It's just not necessary. I'm trying to exaggerate this. Well, I don't... They didn't show me...

...like the hero. Well, they didn't show me any pictures or anything of the way they described it. It was very serious. And please see the truth. I know it's obscured. Where I see the facts, I see the truth, and that's what I'm gathering. You know my heart. What are they charging you with?

Two charges of second-degree felony for child abuse. Two charges of second-degree felony for child abuse? Yes. Okay. Wow. That's very serious. I have... It's interesting. I had the prompting over the last month to read Viktor Frankl.

I was reading him, and it was like the worst part was not knowing the end. He said he had an inmate, this man searched for meaning. He was a prisoner in World War II and he said the worst part and the greatest bringing of depression was not the lack of food and it wasn't the weather conditions. It was not knowing how long it would last. So I think I was prepared for this. I do feel strong. I feel calm. And you know what?

They may... Adults have a really hard time understanding that children can be full of evil and what that takes to fight it. You've seen what it takes to fight evil. It's not the person you're fighting. And it can look like something it's not. And you've been there, you know that. And so I don't know any adults who are going to see the truth.

So I'm calm about this and I just pray that you'll hang in there. I think I can call back, but... Yeah, but just in case, I'm preparing to step up and fight for the children that have been taken. And there's going to be a hearing in the next couple of days here in Provo. Will you say that one more time? Yes. I'm prepared to step up and fight for the children.

They've been taken into custody. They're in foster care, and there's going to be a hearing within the next two or three days. What about Abby and Julie? Them too. All four were taken. Where did they go to get Abby and Julie? I don't know. While I was with them, they got Abby and they were looking for Julie. You have exceeded the allowable time for this call.

You had to put her in a chair. It was horrible. It was torturous last night hearing the screaming and the banging of people. It's like, okay, that's upsetting. But the most upsetting thing is that I am completely misunderstood. That is the most horrible feeling. Like my own family misunderstands me. They misinterpret me.

And poor Jodi, they misinterpret her. They misunderstand her. She puts her neck out on the line for people, and then they get mad at her. I mean, it is just horrendous. It's horrendous. And you know what? Every Joseph Smith, every wonderful man of God has had to be misunderstood. That's right.

And so I'm going to get out of this. Who knows? Maybe in 10 days I'll get out of this if I'm, you know, if the truth prevails right now. Or, you know, who knows, like 20 years? I don't know. I don't know how long, but I'm going to step out. I'm going to say I went through everything. I have seen God's children suffer.

All the people here, my jail cellmates have been beautiful women but they've been hurt. You know, they've been deceived into drugs and my heart just has so much compassion for them. And I I have compassion for the cons and I have compassion

for myself and I ask for myself and I...and then to be told that I'm suicidal, I'm like, no, no, that's not true. Anyway, if you need to... That was either Sherry or one of your siblings. Well, they're all in cahoots. One means all of them, but yes, you're right. In your hearing, I don't know if you've considered this. I don't know if it would be helpful, but you could have the house and if all the kids go to the house, you've got room there and I will gladly stay away and let you guys be. So, I don't know if that's helpful. I'm

just giving it to you if it is. Thank you. And in the discussions with my attorney, that's the only way that we're going to retain custody of the children. That's fine. He is 35 years in this, and he said, even if you are acquitted and are released, they will place legal restrictions on your access to the under 18 children. I figured such... I figured such... God told me. God told me when I was driving before I called you. I didn't have any information. I didn't know anything, and the Spirit said,

your children are going to be removed. And I just... I cried out loud. I'm like, no, I'm not done. I'm not ready. And God told me I'm done. And I just, oh. So Satan has taken everything away from me that I love.

And I'm a good woman. I don't do naughty things. I don't do naughty things. I'm a really good girl. Ruby, I'm going to do everything that I can to keep truth in our family. Thank you. I am committed to our family. I'm committed to you and our marriage, no matter what happens. Thank you. Thank you.

I will be here to support you in any way that I can. Well, thank you for stepping up? I do need to go, but call me back when or if you need. When will you find out? How can I call you? When should I call so I find out what they say? I don't know how long this will go, but if you call this afternoon, I will know. This is a preliminary hearing, so there will be no. Okay. Well, it's hard to get a phone around here. I asked for a phone, and it took hours to get it, so... Then, in a second interview, Kevin was a little less guarded, and he really shed some light on some of the crazy shit that they were into.

Ruby had a very close friend named Paige Hanna, who lives in Mapleton, who was a massive fan of Connections and Joey Hildebrandt. For the fall of 2020, there'd be a conference and Ruby would say, I thought we were just attending it, but then she'd say, hey, they wanted us to get up and tell our story, you know, and I'm like, oh, okay, sure. So so I get up and just say, like, yeah, I was the guy who said, I think this is a bunch of, like, you know, man-hating, you know, women, but it really has made a difference in my marriage, and I, it really did, like, I believed it, and so those conferences and stuff everything continued like that until march of 2021 when after a conference that a connections conference down in st george

all the the like the inner circle all all the people who were being trained as, you know, mental fitness coaches and stuff. So that was Ruby and a bunch of other people and their spouses. We went out to like a dinner afterwards. And that's where Jodi really opened up to the women in a private conversation that she believed she was being tormented and haunted by shadow figures every night. And that was spooky, you know. You know, and I don't know exactly what happened, but the Hannahs do. All I know is at some point within a couple days of that, in that month of March. The Hannas drove down from Mapleton and picked Jody up and brought her back to their home in Mapleton. And she lived for six weeks in that home in Mapleton. And this is where I don't

know what happened, but I do know that there's two different sides of stories they tried to introduce her to a new cult lady that the Hannah's were getting into so they wanted to merge their cults into one apparently we refer to it as a cool oh no no no one in a cult says, I'm in a cult. From your perspective, it looks like two cult leaders merging together. From where I stand now? Absolutely.

Yeah. According to Jodi, she was held against her will for six weeks and was kidnapped, and she escaped and got out according to the hannas after six weeks of jody stabbing herself with forks and knives cutting herself and wanting to commit suicide and trying to seduce the husband of the family they kicked her out i don't know what's the truth, maybe a little bit of both, I don't know. But the point is, somewhere around mid-April, Jodi was back in her home in Ivins and she was a hot mess. And she reached out to Ruby for help.

And Ruby was always jealous of the Hannes that they had a better relationship with Jodi than she did. Ruby, and this goes back to her childhood, she wanted to be the best friend. She wanted to be the most liked. She wanted to be the one that everybody knew. And so it hurt her that she felt like she was being excluded from what was going on at the Hannah's house. And then she'd say, why so many secrets? And the Hannah's would say, it's not secret, it's sacred.

And when the time's right, you can know too. So we went down to Jodi's house in May of 2021. That was the first time I'd ever been there. And it blew my mind. I'm sure you have walked in there and gone, how does a therapist live like this? It doesn't really make sense to me. But we were there, and she opened up and talked about her struggles

and what was going on. I got to say, I'm a smart guy. I'm an engineer. I've designed and helped build some really big stuff. I'm a college professor. I can't explain some of the stuff that happened while we were there. Like, crashes in the basement while we were talking upstairs, and plates in the kitchen just flying off by themselves,

like full speed smashing on the wall and falling to the floor by themselves. I can't explain it, but I saw it with my own eyes, and I don't have any way to explain it other than there's some crazy shit going on. Ruby was convinced that we could intervene and help Jody. I didn't want a thing to do with it. I tried to get the bishop involved and say, hey, go to the priesthood and the church and all that stuff.

Go to your support network. Ruby continued to be like, no, we can help. She doesn't want that. Could you imagine what happened to her reputation if this got out? Let's help her so we

we went down like a couple more times between may and august but it reached the point where in august her bishop at the time a guy named he's down there and kayenta named Scott Galbraith. He's not our bishop anymore, but I mean, he was going over there like every night and he'd be there for like four hours and just, and he'd be like, yeah, I'm fighting evil spirits, I'm casting demons out. There's crazy stuff going on.

And finally he got to the point where he's like I can't do this anymore like there needs to be some sort of resolution it was at that point that they said why don't you take her up to your house and I was like oh hell no I don't want this in my house. But I was beaten over the head with it. Like, that's really insensitive. You know, she's done so much to help our family. And you're being selfish. And she has needs.

And come on, like, it won't be for long. And so I relented. And I was like, okay. Actually, you know, this could kind of be fun. Let's just make it fun. And we'll like, she needs a vacation. So we'll just go take drives up the canyon and stuff like that. And it turned into just like crazy house.

The moment she showed up in my house, just the weirdest crap started happening. Lights turning on and off. The moment she showed up in my house, just the weirdest crap started happening. Lights turning on and off, sounds of people walking in walls, and sounds like footprints going up walls and across the ceiling, and stuff floating around. It was just weird, and I hated it. And I became the resident exorcist. That was the title I came up with myself. I thought it was kind of funny, but it was my job to like go and give her blessings.

Whenever she started to like go into a trance and go into possession, which started to be a lot, and Ruby would go up and check on her. It started every four hours at night, and then it moved every two hours at night, and then it moved every hour at night. And then at some point, Ruby said, you know what? I'm just going to start sleeping in there and and if I need you I'll come down and get you that's kind of weird but okay and and that was that she's they started sleeping in the same bed and then she started having like trances and stuff, I would say probably September, where she believed that she was going to heaven and seeing God and Jesus and talking with him.

And she would get together with Pam Botcher. Ruby, Pam, and Jody would get together with Pam Botcher. Ruby, Pam, and Jody would get together and do these interventions. That's what they called them. And so they'd just go up and lock themselves in a room for four or five hours, and then they'd come out, and they'd all just be on cloud nine, and Ruby would share with me like she had this amazing vision and I wrote it and recorded it all down and we have a work to do from God and and you're part of it and and the bishop's part of it and we're all part of bringing all this stuff to the world.

So it was, and it continued like that until I wanted to move on with life. And I would call it dragging my heels, so that was around October. And Jody flipped out because during one intervention, Chad was in the backyard with a bunch of friends, and it was my job to keep all the kids contained in the basement, watching movies or playing video games. I took the dog on a walk, and I thought they were done, but they weren't done. And Chad had all his high school friends over in the backyard Jody flipped out she was ready to come back to Ivan's on her own that night and Ruby and Pam

talked her into staying but that was the first night where Ruby said I want a separation from you and it was an in-home separation. And so it was it was hard. Basically, there were all these rules now placed on me. Like, I could leave when I wanted, but I couldn't

come back until Ruby gave me permission. I couldn't come into the kitchen to eat until Ruby gave me permission. And the upstairs where Jody roamed was completely off limits. I couldn't go upstairs anymore in my own house. And there would be, Ruby would dictate all of the terms of how our interactions would be, when we would talk. And that was hard. And it was during that time that I really became, I would say, dependent upon Ruby.

Like, if she said a kind word to me, like, my whole day was made, right? And so that separation continued all the way up until the holidays, maybe. Maybe the last week of December, first week of January. And then Ruby ended that separation. Jody went home the second week of january but by that time like ruby pam and jody were completely determined to do this work that they felt god had for them and um i thought it was crazy like i thought it was just batshit crazy. Like, Ruby, you have a reputation. You have a multi-million dollar business.

You have a brand. And you are just giving it away. She wanted to legally, like, work with Jody's attorney to basically give Jody eight passengers and become an employee of Connections. So basically the contract was Ruby gives Jody everything and Ruby gets nothing in return. Our manager, our YouTube manager at the time was like, red flags, red flags. Like, I don't know how to tell you she is scamming you. Ruby fired him. And I was like, I believe our manager.

I think he's right. And Ruby started threatening me with another separation. And just like, this isn't about money. This is about doing God's work. Ruby started threatening me with another separation. And just like, this isn't about money. This is about doing God's work. So we continued in that dynamic for the next six or seven months until she went on a trip with Jody and Pam down to Arizona. And I think they, like, when I read her journal, she went into Mexico or something and bought drugs or something,

like prescription drugs for the emergency kits. And when she came back from that trip, before she even brought the bags into the house, she pulled me in and said, I want to talk with you and that's when she asked me to leave and that was July 20th 2022 my interactions with Jody at that point became one of the only questions I would have and just going back you said that she was having like these visions of like what did we ever privy enough to understand or we told what those visions were a couple of them what were the two they should tell you about so like one of them

she would was walking along the beach with Jesus, and Jesus challenged her to go walk on the water, and it was a whole lesson on walking on the water. Another, she would walk with Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, and she learned about, she had a pet lion in heaven named named Charles I don't know why I never forgot that name but it was like this massive lion and she got to ride the lion and learned that you know all about who she was and this pet lion and There was another one where there was a lot of satanic ones where when she would go into possession mode, she would talk in like different voices. It was really creepy. But the voices would say, she's ours.

We're not letting go. She is Satan's bride. She's mine, I'm going to marry her. So if she was faking it, she believed that she was trying to, or Satan wanted her as her bride. But the few people in their lives who didn't support Ruby from the get-go were her oldest daughter Sherry and Ruby's sisters. In fact, Sherry had been trying to get her siblings taken away well before R ever escaped. And Sherry was the reason people had even started to find out

that something was going down. So she had made an Instagram story that said, quote, finally, and in that there was a picture that showed a police officer holding a gun on the sidewalk outside of their Springville home. And then over the next couple of days, she kept posting. In the first post, she said, quote, today has been a big day. Me and my family are so glad justice is being served. We've been trying to tell the police and CPS for years about this, and we're so glad they finally decided to step up. Now, it was obvious that Kevin was not happy about Sherry speaking out, and that the two of them had a very strained relationship.

And two days after Ruby's arrest, Kevin was actually trying to get his own daughter Sherry arrested for burglary. Sherry had gone to their family house and she had taken his rubies and chad's passports macbook computers journals and she ended up giving everything over to the police who then gave it back to kevin but when he picked up the stuff from the police he made it clear that he wanted his own daughter arrested for burglary which just further seemed to show his support towards Ruby and not the children. She was trying to show evidence. She was trying to help her siblings. He was trying to keep it hush-hush. And what I think is really interesting about this, too, is in one of the first conversations that Kevin and Ruby had after Ruby was arrested, one of the things that she asks Kevin is,

do you think the police are going to try to talk to Sherry? As if they knew that Sherry would blow the lid off of this whole thing. Within a few days of the arrests, there was a shelter hearing in juvenile court regarding Ruby and Kevin's four minor children. It was a hearing to determine who the children should be placed with, and according to witnesses and reporters, during this hearing, Ruby made some extremely, extremely disturbing allegations against her son, R. Ruby accused him of inappropriately touching other children, including E, and even said that he encouraged her to touch other children as well. She said that he disguised this behavior as a, quote, padding game,

and said that he confessed to touching 20 different people, including neighbors and various family members. She also claimed that he is addicted to pornography, and that he has been viewing it since the age of three. So when this allegation came out, of course a lot of people started wondering, you know, if this alleged touching has been going on for years and for so long, and there are so many victims, why didn't she as the parent get her child help or report it, you know, instead of having her friend tie the kids up in the basement and starve them and abuse

them? Also, many people have pointed out that if a child is looking at explicit content from the age of three, then that is a parent issue, not a child issue. No three-year-old knows how to search those topics, and if they happened upon them by accident at three years old, they wouldn't even have any idea what was going on. Now, other people have wondered why a three-year-old would even be left alone with any type of device long enough to be able to intentionally view that kind of content. It doesn't make any sense, especially when you consider that Ruby pretty much stuck a camera in her children's faces from the moment they woke up to the moment they went to sleep.

So when was R supposedly able to do all of this? Others have also pointed out that Kevin and Ruby had cameras like nest surveillance cameras all over their house for security and to also capture candid moments to then use on their channel. So surely, if he was compulsively looking at all of this from the age of three, they would have known. Not to mention her other children have had their doors, bedrooms, beds, and entire lives taken away for much less. Or was this yet another thing that Jodi, quote, helped R realize. Just like how in Kevin's interview with the police, he said that Jody helped him realize that he was addicted to pornography. Which I also just want to say, Jody's definition of addiction to sex and pornography or anything like that

is nothing like the general consensus of what an addiction is. You could look at porn once and she would call you an addict. So after that first court hearing, the rest of the family court proceedings have been closed to the public. And honestly, that's probably for the best. However, it's been reported that all four of the children are under the care of DCFS, despite Kevin's attempts to gain custody. Now, somewhere along the way, it seemed like Kevin and Sherry began mending their relationship or at least setting their issues aside for the sake of the younger kids. Because in October, Kevin, Sherry, and Chad were all seen walking into court together with their attorney for a custody hearing. Then, in November of 2023, Kevin filed for divorce. Initially, Kevin's attorney, Randy Kester, said that Kevin

refuses to sling mud and point fingers, this after the accusations that were made that he could have saved his children. His attorney spoke out on multiple news outlets to give Kevin's side of the story. Now, I've gone through a lot of his interviews throughout the past few months to kind of piece together what Kevin's position has been and how it's all changed through time. So take a listen. That's the first question that I asked, Kevin. And I know that everyone has that question about why was he not there? Why was he not involving himself in his kid's life during that period of time? But it's become abundantly clear that both he and his entire family were being manipulated by someone who's a so-called professional in mental health and in therapy and counseling, Jodi Hildebrand.

They came under her penumbra. She basically took over their lives. the advice was that she was giving them was that Kevin needed to be out of the home, away from his children and away from his wife, separated from them in order to save their family and save their marriage. And Kevin's a man who was desperate to save his marriage and his family. He loved his wife. He loved his children. But took this corny advice of this therapist and uh it was absent from the home for 12 or 13 months until all these horrific allegations came forward what about what about before then though i mean there are a lot of allegations with regard to the previous allegations that were referred to dcfs if he's done nothing wrong, why is the state still keeping control of the kids? Right. I mean, if he did nothing wrong in any other case, the other parent would be able to take care of the kids.

It's an absolutely fair question. But because of the absence, his absence, and because of the manipulation by Jodi Hildebrandt upon these children, who she pretty much had under her exclusive control between she and Ruby, there has become a rift. These children have become brainwashed and actually at this point are being held by the state in an effort to finalize and get some expert professional help to help them overcome this brainwashing that they have. Let's talk about that for a second. First of all, before I get into Jody, do Kevin, your client, and Ruby, have they been talking at all while she's in jail the last conversation they had was uh last friday and that's when during that conversation is when he came to kind of came to his senses about how he'd been manipulated and deceived are you saying he

confronted her about these allegations to To some degree. I don't know the entire contents of the conversation, but in his discussion with me was that during that conversation, things were said that made him realize how he'd been deceived and misled. And as I told you earlier, he didn't even know the kids were in Ivan's. You had just said that he knew that Ruby and Jody were working together. Correct. So how was he that shocked if he knew that they were working together and maybe she had brought the kids with him? I mean, did he not think that perhaps Ruby had taken the kids to Jody's house? Typically, she would tell him something like that,

but she didn't. She didn't. She'd had the kids down there from about late May, I think maybe June, until this all came about. And she didn't tell him one thing about taking the kids to Ivan's. What does he say about Jody Hildebrandt?

That she's manipulated him in conjunction with Ruby. That she's been kind of the spearhead toward essentially destroying his life and destroying his family. How did Jody and Ruby get connected? Does Kevin know? I don't know. I don't know. Mm-hmm. I don't know.

Is Kevin, I mean, again, is Kevin believing that perhaps it was Jody who was manipulating Ruby in this? Or because it also sounds like Kevin feels he was manipulated by Ruby. Is it just all the blame on Jody? I think it was a team effort, but with Jody being the spearhead. In mid-December, Ruby pled guilty.

But before we talk about all that, guys, we are going to take one final break to hear from the final sponsors of today's episode. As a part of her plea deal, she would be required to plead guilty to four of the six counts of child abuse. She also would be required to testify against Jody and spend 1 to 15 years in prison for each of those four counts. A little over a week after she did plead guilty, Jodi ended up taking the exact same plea deal as well. So what exactly did they plea guilty to? So according to court documents, RF was forced to do physical tasks for hours and days at a time. This included

wall sits, carrying boxes full of books up and down stairs, and working outside. Eventually, R.F. was forced to do outside labor without shoes and in the summer heat. He was to stand in the direct sunlight for several days. He was forced to remain outside at all hours of the day and night for extended periods of time. These actions resulted in repeated and serious sunburns with blisters and sloughing skin. RF was denied water for several of the days that he was required to remain in the summer heat too, and then he was punished when he secretly, quote, secretly consumed water. He was denied sufficient food, and when given food, he was given very plain meals such as rice and chicken, while others in the house ate regular and more flavorful meals. He was isolated from other people and denied all forms of entertainment,

including books, notebooks, and electronics. And it gets fucking worse. After he attempted to run away the first time in July, his hands and feet were regularly bound. The bindings included being tied to his mother Ruby and also to weights. Now many times the bindings included using two sets of handcuffs, one on his wrists and one on his ankles. At times he would be lying on his stomach and ropes were used to tie the two sets of handcuffs together so that his arms and lower legs were lifted off the ground, which from my

understanding, it means that he was essentially hogtied with handcuffs. It is absolutely barbaric and disgusting. The bindings also caused injuries to his wrists and his ankles where the handcuffs had cut through the skin and actually damaged the muscle tissue. These injuries were treated with homeopathic remedies and then covered with duct tape. Then the bindings were placed on top of the duct tape. Specific instances of abuse that was committed by Ruby herself against her son included kicking him while she was wearing boots, holding his head underwater, and cutting off oxygen by placing her hands over his mouth and nose. The abuse began in May, and it escalated throughout the summer months. Additionally, Ruby and Jodi regularly sought to indoctrinate RF and convinced him that he was evil and possessed,

and also that he needed to willingly be obedient to avoid punishments. And they tried to convince him that the punishments were necessary to repent. He was also told that everything that was being done to him were acts of love. I mean, sick, sick, sick. Now, for her younger child, who is going by the initials in this document, E.F., in addition to also being bound and tied, she was subjected to the same treatment as her brother, with the tasks, the water, being outside, and not getting any food. She was also repeatedly told that she was evil and possessed, and that the punishments were necessary for her to be obedient and to repent. And these things were being done to her

all in order to help her, again, according to Ruby and Jodi. EF was convinced, too, that she was evil and that she needed to go through these things in order for her to repent. It's heartbreaking. She was forced to work outside in the heat barefoot, and she was also forced to run barefoot on dirt roads for extended periods of time. Her feet were repeatedly injured, and she was repeatedly sunburned. When examined on August 30th when the arrests first happened, these wounds were apparent by scabs, blisters, and sloughing skin. It is so cruel, so disgusting, and guilty or not, whether she's accepting responsibility or not, it is inexcusable. It is absolutely barbaric. Now guys, that wasn't even all of it, and this is where all of the bombshells really exploded last week, because

the county released everything. A lot of it has been redacted even in mainstream media, but I'm going to go over it with you as much as I can in an uncensored way without censoring things that are highly, highly specific and graphic related to the children, but you'll understand where I'm going as we go through this. So when the police searched Jodi's house, they collected a shit ton of evidence. First off, they took photos of everything in the house. And when you see the photos of the house, it is very, very eerie. The house barely looks lived in. It's almost like 80% of the house was just completely empty. Now it is a 9,000 square foot home, so it's a lot of space to fill. But still, it also

makes sense now when you think of the Airbnb guests who were staying there at the same time that these kids were literally being held captive it was a lot of space they could have been on an entirely different side of the house. Now some of these photos throughout the house also showed a few different wound stations. Now what I mean by this is there were like little makeshift setups where there were these huge bowls full of cayenne pepper, honey, this like mixture that they had made, gauze, saran wrap, and band-aids. There were ropes, shackles, and duct tape all around the house which were obviously used to tie the kids up. There were also pictures of the weights that were used to tie the kids down and many of the ropes

and the shackles were found in what looks to be a panic room. It's an underground concrete garage type basement area and the door to gain access to it is this huge lock that almost looks like a large safe kind of almost like a bank safe like it's this huge safe door that is literally the size of a normal door. It's crazy. And inside there, there was a small mattress, a toilet, a microwave, and a sink. Then probably worst of all was the discovery of Ruby's journal entries. Now I went through the journal entries. It was over 60 pages, guys, and I'm not even sure she was being truthful in there about everything that she was accusing the kids of doing because she does accuse them of doing a lot in these entries, but she admitted to some pretty insane things throughout it. A lot of the journal was redacted for the protection of the children, but what is available and what was distributed was enough to

make anybody nauseous. And I'm going to take you through just a couple of the journal entries that stuck out to me. On July 1st, she wrote, quote, R is to stay outside, sleep outside, only come in to go to the bathroom and shower. On July 9th, the day before R's birthday, she wrote, quote, R turns 12 tomorrow. I never envisioned him being 12 and still pooping and peeing himself. Satanic choices lead one to becoming destitute, even in the most affluential homes. Which, uh, no Ruby, usually if a child is pooping and peeing himself, it is caused by, I don't know, maybe something you're doing, like starvation, like abuse, like all of these other things. So then the next day she writes about R not knowing that it's his birthday, and then she

calls him a compulsive liar, and she says, quote, I would never have expected the cold, dead heart that R has. Then she talks about how E is better behaved with Jodi, and says that she gave her a pixie haircut and adds in, quote, all her long hair is gone, no more distracting with hair. On that same day, she admits in her journal that she told R to stand in the sun with his sun hat and that he said no, so she pushed him into the sun. When he came out of the sun, she pushed him back in with a cactus poker. She said, quote, when I poke his back to get in the sun, R doesn't even flinch. I poke him in the neck. He is in a trance and doesn't appear to feel anything. Jodi taps him on the cheeks to wake him up. She talks about how her and Jodi both pushed him into the pool and then alluded to him having the devil inside of him and she performed some sort of weird

ass ritual on him. She put her hand over his mouth and his nose and told him, quote, the devil lies and says I am hurting you, abusing you, but R, what am I really doing? R responded and said, you are putting oxygen on me to help me breathe. She mentioned multiple times how he would steal food and also water. Ruby also said that R mentioned that he wanted to go to jail and that he worshipped the devil. I thought it was interesting that she followed it up with, quote, R doesn't actually know what jail means. He has no comprehension of what throwing your life away means, quote. Which, I mean, isn't that exactly what Ruby did?

It's a little ironic, right? So she would talk to R as if he had a demon inside of him, saying things like, quote, Give your demon friend a message for me. I will not rest. I will not stop. I will not leave. I will fight him until the day you die. She would also tease him about how she slept in a very soft bed while he slept on the hard ground. Mother of the year, right guys? Now at one point, E thought that she was going to get to eat, but then Ruby told her that she would not eat for a third day because she had, quote,

hardened her heart. Ruby wrote that E flipped out and laid on the floor all day saying things like, my mom starves me and calls it fasting, and my mom won't lift two fingers and bring me food because all she does is lay on the bed and eat brownies. And because she did that, Ruby said that she cut more hair off of E, and then, quote, doused her in the dog wash. When E said that she wanted to run away, Jodi told her that she had no idea what was waiting for her if she did. Then she talks about how her and Jodi, or G-Joe, as she calls her throughout the journal, were planning on moving to the desert where the kids could, quote, work. She said that before moving, she would let E come and sit in the pantry, were planning on moving to the desert where the kids could, quote, work. She said that before moving, she would let E come and sit in the pantry, and she would have R sit on the

patio in the shade. Then, right when they would think that they got what they wanted and they would start to relax, she would write, quote, pop, we will drop them like hot potatoes out in the desert. She also wrote about the day that she completely shaved E's head. E had been walking up and down the stairs with boxes, and at one point she slipped. Ruby thought that she had fake slipped, so she put her in the dog wash. She shaved her head, and then she made her go back to carrying the boxes. When E complained that it was hot outside, Ruby told her that hell would be much hotter, so either get used to it or start changing. She also wrote about how one night when she experienced a, quote, miracle, she wrote, quote, last night God gave me a miracle that I absolutely will never forget. I went to bed around

12 10 a.m. E on the floor next to my bed and R on the patio outside of my sliding glass window. Oh man, just writing this, I am shaking. If Pam hadn't volunteered to take A to American Fork for her ACT test, then I would not have been here, and my life, Jodi's, and my family's would be forever different. She goes on to say how she woke up in the middle of the night and noticed that R had run away. She says she woke Jodi up and they went out to go find she woke up in the middle of the night and noticed that R had run away. She says she woke Jodi up and they went out to go find him, jumping in their cars and, quote, racing the sun, racing the devil to find him. And finally, they did find him.

This illustrates that he had tried to run away multiple times before finally being successful, which, I just have to say, that requires an insane amount of bravery. Then in her journal, says quote the sun started lighting the road just an hour and a half later the devil wants me in prison my children dead. Now guys if this is not a dead ringer for Lori Vallow I don't know what is and truthfully I've said it before but I'm going to say it again. It is my belief that had R not escaped, had E not been rescued, there is no doubt in my mind that these children would not have survived. There really is no doubt in my mind, and I don't think that they would maybe have ever even been found because of the vast amount of desert out there. I don't know, but it sends a chill down my spine when I think

about it. Thank God, thank God he escaped. Now after he escaped that one night, Ruby began tying ropes to him at night so that he couldn't leave. Another form of punishment that they used was taking the kids to the local cemetery to pull weeds and pick up trash. Ruby wrote that they would make them go barefoot to increase the discomfort and to also decrease the chance of them running away. She admitted that it was full of huge sagebrush, pokies, thorns, and even broken glass, and at one point, the owner of the cemetery came and told Ruby that she was trespassing and had to get off of her land. So then Ruby took the kids, and she and Jodi explained that the woman was in distortion. Because of course, as soon as somebody's not agreeing with what you want to do, they're

obviously in distortion, right? Now at one point, R was crying because his feet were so swollen from standing. Ruby told him, quote, when your soul is dying, no one cares about your feet. A couple of days later, when R, quote, wasn't manipulating and told Ruby that he wanted to change, Ruby told him, No, that's not true. You didn't manipulate because you weren't uncomfortable. Now reading this journal was absolutely insane because Ruby was just such a freaking hypocrite as she yelled at her kids for manipulating her but then manipulated them. Anything R and E did was never good enough and Jodi and Ruby would just continue to convince

the kids that they sold their souls to the devil. Ruby even wrote about putting on a pair of boots and going into the room that he was locked in at one point and kicking him saying, you want me to help you? No. You want me to feed you? No. You want me to shower and provide for you? No. She wrote about how he would respond to the different discipline measures of cold water, cactus poking, and whipping him with towels, and then after that, she moved to whipping E and R both with a belt. There was also another detail that Ruby talked about throughout a lot of her journal entries that literally sends chills down my spine even thinking of it.

Ruby talks about her and Jody's plan to buy land in Arizona. In one entry, she says, Jody and Jay are going on a trip to look at property in Arizona. I have some cash in the bank, so if the property is right, we can move on financing immediately. We decided that the escalation of the kids is not manageable here and now. R is now sitting, angry and defiant. E is lying on the floor. We will bring them in.

R and I will clean up out in the desert as he has pooped himself. Then in another entry, Ruby talked about the land again and said, kids need a good kick from a horse and a cactus to run into. Can you imagine saying this about your children, about any children? It is so awful. Now, in one of Ruby's jail calls with Kevin, she said that she had cash for the kids schooling, not so that she could go buy land in Arizona that she could use to torture the children on. Towards the end of the journal entries, right before her arrest, she mentioned that A and Jodi were in Tucson looking at a property with 500 acres. Then she wrote that J, who had been staying back in their Springville home, seemingly by herself,

went to go visit Jodi for a week. When Ruby took her back to Springville, she said that her, J, A, and Pam packed up 20 boxes from the house and put them into a storage unit, and that A then gave two weeks notice at her work. Now guys, this was just a couple days before R fled and before the arrest happened, so I couldn't help but think about how if R hadn't escaped that day, they likely would have moved to Arizona, maybe even on 500 acres. And like I said earlier, there is no doubt in my mind that we would have had another Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell situation on our

hands. The journal entries were essentially just one sick confession after another. Then I started thinking about Kevin freaking out about the journals that Sherry took, because remember he freaked out and wanted to charge her with burglary when she took all of that stuff from the house? What was in those journals? Was it more confessions? Did they show a timeline of things beginning to escalate over time? Was he worried that if the police read them, then he would be implicated and be in trouble as well? I mean, and again, in that moment, your first instinct as a parent should be your children's well-being. So you shouldn't be trying to charge your daughter with burglary for trying to help her siblings. You should be the one trying to help your own children, my man. Like, give me a break.

Which kind of just cements my other point, because in one of Kevin's very first interviews, when he was first told that his kids had been rescued and that they had wounds that were aligned with torture, before even asking how the children were, asked about Ruby he was more concerned with his wife after hearing literally point blank that his one son had run away that he was asking for help that he was malnourished that he was emaciated all of these things and his concern was Ruby which it really makes you ask the question how much did Kevin really know was going on because that definitely doesn't seem in line with a statement of a parent who is in shock and hearing those allegations for the first time. So Jody and Ruby were sentenced to their four counts of aggravated child abuse in February of 2024.

Per Utah law, when consecutive sentences are issued, their imprisonment terms cannot be more than 30 years. The Utah Board of Pardons and Parole will ultimately determine the exact amount of prison time, and then after that, each of them will have 30 days to appeal the decision. Now what I want to do is I want to play for you guys just a couple of clips of what they said when they were in court, because it's the lack of accountability for me. So here is what Ruby said in her statement to the court. I would like to make a statement without any intent to change my stipulated sentence. For the past four years, I've chosen to follow counsel and guidance that has

led me into a dark delusion. My distorted version of reality went largely unchecked as I would isolate from anyone who challenged me. I was led to believe that this world was an evil place, filled with cops who control, hospitals that injure, government agencies that brainwash, church leaders who lie and lust, husbands who refuse to protect, and children who need abused. My choice to believe and behave this paranoia culminated into criminal activity, for which I stand before you today ready to take accountability. Jody Hill DeBrandt was never my business partner, nor was I ever employed by her. I have never received wages from her or connections. Jody was employed as my son's counselor in 2019, and in 2020 I paid her.

It is important to me to demonstrate my remorse and regret without blame. I take full accountability for my choices and it is my preference that I serve a prison sentence. Thank you to the officers in Santa Clara and the Ivan City Police. Nick Hallman, Brian Palufo, Cy Pikivit,

Mike Pondoglio in Tobler, John Ward, D. Lewis, and Chief Flowers. You were the angels who came and saved my children. I especially want to thank Detective Jay Bate. She plucked me out of a situation I didn't know how to get out of, and the moment she handcuffed me was the moment I gained my freedom. You were not the controlling ones. I was. Thank you to the medical staff at Intermountain Hospital. Your skill, tenderness, and professionalism helped to heal my children.

Jody and I inflicted the injuries, not the hospital. Thank you to DCFS, the Children's Justice Center, Judge Basil, and other key adults. You've gathered my children under your wing and offered them love, compassion, encouragement. You were not the ones who were doing the brainwashing. Thank you to my Bishop Tom Hawks and my State President Jim Nelson for reminding me of the

Lord's love for the lost. So much pain and suffering would have been avoided had I followed and heeded your counsel. I was the one who was deceived, not you. Thank you to the Washington County Prosecutor's Office, Ryan Schaum, the legal assistants and discovery clerks. Eric Clark, you exemplified to me how justice and mercy are meant to coexist. My charges are just. They offer safety to my family, accountability to the public,

and they did show mercy to me. Thank you to my attorney, Lamar Winward, and his staff. I would not be where I am today without them. Thank you to Randy Kester for your limitless energy in healing my family. My dear friends, Pam and Roy, I am so sorry for letting you down. Because of your association with me, your innocence was called into question.

My mother-in-law, father-in-law, Kevin's family, my cousins, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, and neighbors. You all saw the warning signs long before I did, and you did what you could. You wanted to help, but I pushed you away. My mother and father, I have been utterly wretched to you. You have offered me unconditional love, and for that I have offered you unconditional contempt. My siblings and their spouses, because of my decision to roll around in a pigsty, I have drug your families through the mud in public. Yet, when I desired to return as the prodigal sister, unlike the prodigal's brother in the Bible,

you sinked stuck with my parents and ran out to greet me. Your capacity to love is unprecedented. Kevin, my husband of more than 23 years, you are the love of my life. I'm so sorry to leave to you to finish what we both started together. The ending of our marriage is a tragedy. And you're a rapture on my heart. And I'll never be able to undo. To my babies,

my six little chicks, you were a part of me. I was the mama duck who was consistently leading you to safety. I can see now that over the past four years I was in a deep undercurrent that led us to danger. I remember when I checked the darkness knowingly. I was so disoriented that I believed dark was light and light was wrong. I would do anything in this world for you. My willingness to sacrifice all for you was masterfully manipulated into something very ugly.

I took for you all that was soft and safe and good. I took for you your mother. How terrible this must have been for you. And I will still cry for her and her tender souls. You are so precious to me. I'm sorry. My choice to live in fear of the world has created a great vulnerability and a blind spot for me, where I have broken hearts and I've caused people to suffer and I have betrayed sacred trust.

Watching my community respond to my charges with justice and mercy and grace and love is all I have to say about how long I've been. This world is full of really good people. And finally, I'm sorry for twisting God's word and distorting his doctrines. I am humbled and willing to serve a prison sentence as long as it takes to continue unraveling all of the disinformation I have believed and bought, swallowed, and acted out. I'm committed to continuing my learning until all of my toxic layers are shed and I am ready to re-enter as a contributing member of our beautiful society. Thank you, Judge Walton. Now for Jodi, prosecutors told the judge that she did not participate in the pre-sentencing

report interview and that she had been on recorded phone calls while in jail saying that she was the victim, that the children were perpetrators, things like that, which, yes, you heard me correctly. She was also heard saying that all of the legal proceedings in this case were misrepresented by the media and that they are complete lies. Now, her statement to the court, it was much shorter. And in answer to your question, Your Honor, I knew that whatever she might say to the author of the pre-sentence report would probably sound hollow and self-serving, and perhaps it does today. But I know that my client, in the statement that she makes to the court today, that that statement is absolutely sincere. After their hearings, a reporter from the Today Show spoke out with one of the prosecutors, and he said, I think that a four-year minimum for Ruby's actions are entirely appropriate.

I hope that Jody serves more time than that, and I hope that she isn't out of prison until everybody is completely confident that she is no longer a risk. And to get there, she's going to have to acknowledge that she has done wrong, and that you can't use religion as a means to justify your crazy behavior. Which, hello. I mean, I think we all know that you can't use religion to justify abusing a child or starving a child or tying a child up right but what's so interesting me what's so interesting to me is that Jodi is blatantly saying like that the children were the perpetrators and then what's so interesting to me too is that when Ruby is up there making a statement she's talking about how she was a victim of Jodi's as well and how she was saved when the handcuffs were put on her, which, no, no, no, my friend, let's not get it twisted.

Your children, your children were the ones who were saved when the handcuffs were slapped on your grimy ass little wrists. Now, Ruby's parents wrote a letter to the parole board, and I want to read it to you and see what you make of this, because I'm pretty shocked, to be quite honest. Dear Judge and Parole Board, we are Ruby Frankie's parents. We are currently serving a full-time mission in Serbia. Before Ruby became involved with Jodi Hildebrandt, she was a wonderful mother, daughter, sister, and member of the church. All she ever wanted from the time that she was a little girl was a family to love and nurture. When she began having troubles with her teenage son Chad, she sought out a family therapist and counselor to help them. We noticed a shift in Ruby's thinking

the summer of 2020, and by that fall, she had cut all ties to us, her siblings, and her close friends. For three years, what brief communications we had with her, she accused us of either things that never happened, or she grossly exaggerated the events that did. She was delusional. She was so deeply brainwashed that we could not recognize her. We received a postcard from Ruby two months after the terrible news of the children. We read her tender apology and humble acceptance of accountability. She expressed her gratitude for being incarcerated and felt that the mighty wake-up call was a huge blessing. Since then, we have seen a return to the Ruby we once knew. Her thoughts and views are her own now.

Her love, her appreciation, and commitment to her family is stronger than it has ever been. Ruby is more concerned about her eternal salvation than her imprisonment. Her testimony of the Savior and his atoning power means everything to her. As her mother and father, we plead with you to show her as much mercy as you possibly can. Hopefully in time, she will have a relationship with her children, and they will remember the mother that she once was to them, and they will find it in their hearts to forgive her. This would be the greatest healing balm for all of them.

Sincerely, Chad and Jennifer Griffiths. Now to be fair, I'm sure that going from having zero criminal history to then sitting in jail for months and facing serious felony charges, and on top of all of that being literally eviscerated by the media and pretty much the entire country, it would create a huge wake-up call to most people, right? I mean, to say the least. So, is it possible that Ruby was being sincere in her statement? Has she really reformed that quickly? Personally, I'm not buying it at all, and it's my opinion that Ruby knew

exactly what she needed to do. And not only that, but I believe that this is evidenced in some of the jail calls that she had, in particular one with her sister. Take a listen. Did you see that Jodi had guilty today? I did see that, yes. Is that a relief for you? Yeah. It's a big relief. It's a big relief. There, there would have been positive the other way too. Had she not pled guilty, there's enough evidence that she would have been, could have been convicted for life, but, um, yeah, that would have been messy. It would have been really messy and the kids would have... So do you and her get the same outcome no matter what now or is there a chance that it would be different? That's a really good question. That's one that I've asked Lamar.

No, we can still have different outcomes. So Ellie asked a little bit about this. I wrote it out in she will fill out probation and there's another P, paperwork. And basically you go through your history and you tell them your history, which there's no history on me. There's nothing. No criminal history, no mental health history, nothing. And I'm also hiring a professional to do a mental health evaluation just to say she's good, like there's no mental health problems at all.

And then that will go to my probationary board. Jodi, she can lie on her paperwork, and she probably will. I don't think she's going to give them her history. But I think in the interview, it's going to be apparent that she's mentally ill. And so that will affect how long someone, you know, because they're looking, how repentant are you? How much responsibility are you taking? How are you aware that what you've done is wrong?" And she's not...

The only reason she pled is because she didn't want to do life. She knew I would testify. The other thing is on my plea deal, when I come up for probation, the prosecuting attorney can... Well, often, if they think that you're a danger to society, will talk to the probationary board or write them a letter saying, I think she needs to stay where she is. He's going to stay neutral and not write any letter when my probation comes up, which is a really big deal, but for her, he's

not going to stay neutral. So, Wade can come up to probation and I can get off on probation and she may not. Yeah. When was the last time you talked to her? Was it that day? Mm-hmm. It was when we were arrested. Yeah. Yeah.

I went, I left early in the morning to go to a dentist appointment with Julie. We left at like 3 in the morning to go to a dentist appointment with Julie. We left at like 3 in the morning. And she calls me sometime in the morning. And so I went back down. But when I got to the house, I mean, it looked like the movies. There was a red fire truck. There was a black van with tinted windows. There were two ambulances.

There were 20 cop cars. I mean, it was... Did you just sit in your car? No. I pulled up and found a spot to park. She lives on a cul-de-sac. I parked in the cul-de-sac, and I walked up. And the driveway was just full of cops, and I just walked up to the cops.

And they said, are you the mother? And I nodded my head, and so they took me and put me in the casita, and I sat there for a couple hours. I just sat there. And then they were finishing looking through the house and stuff, I think, and some of the guys were coming in and out with pizza. And so I think Eve was still there because the ambulance car was there. She was eating pizza with the police.

And then once the kids were taken in the ambulance cars, then the detective came and patted me down and arrested me. And then took me to the courthouse for questioning, which I didn't. And I'm glad I didn't say anything because Lamar was really helpful. Like, if you ever get arrested, don't say anything. I just didn't say anything because Lamar was really helpful. Like, if you ever get arrested, don't say anything. I just didn't say anything. So I didn't see Jodi at all when I went to the house to turn myself in. I didn't see her. Okay.

And I went, they took me to the courthouse, and the detective was like, I've got all night. We can talk all night. And I didn't say anything. I just said I want an attorney. So I could hear Kevin in the hallway talking. And then he left. And when they took me out of the room, they took me outside and cuffed me and said, again, they cuffed me again and then put me, they told me you're

under arrest for, and then they told me two of the charges and then they had me get in the patrol car and that's when I saw Jody. I thought Jody was also in the patrol car. And she had surgery on her shoulder. She couldn't put her hands behind her back, so then they pulled her out and changed up the way they arrested her so she could drive with her hands in front of her. And then we had about a 40-minute, 45-minute drive to the jail. And that was the last time I spoke to her. We were in the back, and we didn't say a whole lot.

I mean, we talked all the time, but I don't remember really saying a whole lot. We sang a – like hummed a couple of hymns, and she was still justifying the whole time. She was like, don't worry, don't worry. We'll have our day in court. And then when we were booked in, they put us in separate cells, and we've been in separate cells ever since. I'm sorry, this just sounds like someone gaming the system. She quite literally was saying, the judge and the parole board want to see that you're remorseful. That's the most important part.

And even saying that she may have a much lighter sentence than Jodi because Jodi's denying her actions. I don't know, I could be wrong, but it just seems extremely, extremely calculated. So now moving on to Jodi's jail calls, because boy, oh boy, listen to this. I'm saying is you're being crucified in public opinion. So your fear has to be super prepared. And the only way he's going to get prepared is if you push him and ride him. Okay. I will. I'll call him today. Yeah. He doesn't seem really animated. He seems like, you know, the pictures, the pictures are going to destroy you. And I'm like, we didn't do that. We didn't do that. Those pictures we did not do. He did

that to himself. Yes. Did we put that on him? And then he rubbed around and cut himself? Yes. But we didn't do that. Nobody wants the truth. Nobody wants the truth. Nobody wants the truth because he's kids. You know, I told Doug, I woke up, the Spirit told me, it's all the devil. You've seen him. I mean, I've known you, what, for five years? You've watched him come at me, come at me, come at me, come at me. And you're exactly right because he knows I know what he's doing. And he uses these kids.

And he uses these kids. And he uses all of us as the adults, the parents, that don't hold the kids accountable. So now it's abusive to make a kid sleep on the floor. It's abusive. Or it's abusive to, you know, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. You can't even raise your kids anymore.

Okay. So the Lord says that first they'll lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and into prisons, being brought in for kings and rulers

for my namesake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony. And then he says, settle it therefore in your hearts not to meditate before what ye shall answer

for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay or resist. And you know what gainsay means? Wow. So then he says, and ye shall be betrayed by both parents

and brethren and kinsfolk and friends. I'm like, oh my gosh, that's what's going on. And some of you shall be caused to be put to death and you shall be hated by all men for my name's sake. And then he goes on to say, you know, and I never read that before, but like, I've never been in prison. But I just read that. I just wept. I mean, the Spirit was like, He just said, This is you. I read in Mark. That was in Luke.

And I read in Mark the same kind of thing, you know, because the Gospels, they wrote similarly. So he said, Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son. Like, the father will betray the son. And the children shall rise up against their parents and shall cause them to be put to death. That statement right there is what's going on with me. The children shall rise up and put their parents to death and he shall

be hated of all men for my name's sake. I just, I mean, I probably cried for an hour straight. Just everything clicked. And I said, happy to go to prison. Because if you continue to read the rest of the chapter, she's like, be grateful. If you're in this situation, be grateful because you're...

Be grateful. And you will be saved. Wow. Yeah, that's a great experience to read that from your perspective right now, you know? Wow. Well, I have just been begging him, like, you've got to explain this to me. Like, I cannot logically figure out what's going on here.

And that's it. That's what's going on. And the spirit. I mean, I just was... When I feel the spirit, I have two physiological reactions. I get really shaky, like I'm shivering, like I'm cold. Or I still heat, like I have a fever through me. I was burning up.

It felt like I was burning up. And I was like burning up. It felt like I was burning up. And I was just shaking with gratitude like, here's your answer. Here's what this is. That's super cool. And it... That's pretty neat. Pretty neat how that works, how the scriptures can do that, you know? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well, I have, like I said, I have probably every single day just been, you know, trying to logic, trying to understand, trying to be humble and trying to say,

uh, uh, uh, uh. Yeah. What's happening yeah you're living a puzzle trying to put the pieces together in Peter 1 Peter I don't have this one written down

I kind of wrote this stuff down so I took it down to the phone but in 1 Peter chapter 4 between verses 12 and 19 I can't remember exactly how he says it, but he's like, when something happens to you and it just feels like it's random, it's not random. Like, this is intentional. It's not just some crazy act of events that's going on. This is, like, intentional.

And that 1 Peter chapter 4 was another one of the footnotes to refer to, you know, that reinforced all this other stuff. And I'm like, oh, this is just some crazy random event. It has purpose. And then I connected it to my blessing. It's my blessing I've been reading several times a day. The blessing is pretty clear. My first

paragraph of it says these are words directly to you from your Heavenly Father, and according to your faith and diligence, they'll either be a comfort to you or they won't be. So however much diligence and faith you want to put in.

And then the next paragraph talks about, it says, you are a special spirit chosen and reserved for these last days and sent forth to the earth in great clouds of glory to share the gospel and prepare the people for the return of the Savior. And then it says, one of the reasons you were sent here is to share the gospel. The strongest message you will ever teach is the power of your example. Then he says, through the power of your example and the spoken word, or no, he says, your tongue will be loosed and you will be able to teach the gospel in foreign distant nations. And then he says, through the power of your example and the spoken word, you will be a great tool in the hand of the Lord in teaching the gospel to many. So this whole paragraph about an example, an example, an example, I'm like, well, what's a better example than to go to prison in Jeff Lee

and then go teach the gospel? Go teach the gospel. Yeah. Is there a plan on doing that? Yeah. I mean, that's super cool, that lady that's Jewish that you've met. Yeah. You know, that's super cool, that lady that's Jewish that you've met. Yeah. You know, what a neat thing.

Yeah. To be able to share with her. I was almost done. You know, I had a guy from a ward that I was seeing. After a ward, he came over and he gave me a blessing. And he told me, probably about two months ago, he said, and he doesn't know anything about me. He doesn't know about what I do for a living or anything.

And he goes, what you've been doing is going to change. You're going to be teaching differently in the next little while. Wow. Like, what in the world? I mean, Ryan, I know this sounds crazy, and I still can't put my finger on why it feels this way, but it feels like I was being set up to end up here. Oh my goodness.

I know that sounds bizarro. I mean I sit here, I haven't done anything wrong. Right, right, but my goodness. But it was like everything got taken out of the house and it's in the storage unit so that I could come to jail. That sounds crazy, but it feels that way. I don't know if I'm going to be like some kind of example, but when I get out of here, I have a story to tell, and I am going to try to do everything I can to protect the children

because that's what's happening is like kids are being horribly abused. Yeah, absolutely. Instead of the kids. Anyway, it's a story, but when you come, you're bad. Yeah. Okay, so in the... So there's the action. He's talking about the sector coming.

And I'm coming from this place of I was just getting ready to move, and all of a sudden I ended up in prison. You know, like, what in the world? Now, I have been praying for five months, like, explain this to me. Like, what is going on? Like, I'm willing to go there, but please let me go right side up. Like, if you want me to be there because please let me go right side up like help me to be there because you want me to be there then then great great i will not resist at all but

please help me understand so i read this this morning and i just wept and wept and just thanked him and thanked him because it just all click click. So he says, for all these things, you know, nation rising as nation, they shall lay their hands on you. And I'm like, oh, my goodness. Prosecute you. Now, first of all, I don't know who she is on the phone with, but the fact that they were on the other end of that phone call and didn't stop Jodi once blows my mind.

She sounds like a complete crazed maniac, and she's still blaming the children. It is sick, sick, sick, sick, sick. And then all of the times where she is essentially saying that she had signs of this coming and acting like she's still in control of the situation, I mean, it just shows how truly delusional she was. She must truly believe all of that psychobabble bullshit that comes out of her mouth. I mean, she is insane and completely unhinged. We still don't know the amount of time that Ruby and Jodi will spend in prison, but we certainly know why they pled guilty, just based on the sheer amount of horrific evidence against them. However, I do wonder if they thought that by pleading guilty that nobody would know the extent and the details of what the

children went through. Either way, I'm glad that the DA released all of the evidence, because even though it's still so shocking to believe, people need to know what these monsters did. And guys, some of the pictures that were taken of the children's injuries when they were at the hospital are so, so graphic that everybody's been blurring them out, even mainstream media, even 2020, everybody, because they are truly horrific. So I'm been blurring them out even mainstream media even 2020 everybody because they are truly horrific so I'm going to describe them but I'm not going to show them because I don't think they need to be out there personally there's a few channels out there who have posted it over the weekend you can go look if you want but please massive trigger warning

they are so bad but you can see where the restraints were on the ankles and you can see the skin on the legs are completely chapped it's raw you can start to see muscle below it it is like it has literally disintegrated the skin you can see the shoulder blades sticking out of R completely as though he is so malnourished and underweight it looks like literal wings coming out of his back that's how much they are protruding and then there is a wrist wound where to me it almost looks like a burn even though I know it's not maybe partially a rope burn but it's like a slit a thick a what not even a slit a slit's the wrong word guys a gash on his wrist and it's so deep that you can see muscle you can see tissue you can see fat and it is like gosh I want to say it's like an inch wide

something like it is so horrific when I saw it for the first time I'm not exaggerating guys I did start gagging it is so awful and this is what this boy had all over his body when he was brave enough to run away from Jodi's house he is honestly honestly a freaking hero in my eyes. Now I'm really hoping for the maximum sentence here because especially now that all of this information came out, all of these details, you can't trust these people going back on the street in my opinion. If they are so warped in their mind that they truly think that what they were doing was right, just like Lori Vallow did, just like Chad Day Daybell did you can't let them ever around children again you can't let them around anybody in the population ever again so hopefully there will be some sort of amount of pressure now that the DA has released all of this material

to where they will get the fullest sentence and they will be held accountable but either way guys I will definitely keep you updated on this case I hope this episode was informative and helpful to kind of really take you through the entire case, start to finish, so that you got an understanding of who these people are, who they once were, who they are now, and I will definitely keep you updated.

So if you aren't following the podcast yet, make sure you click the little button in the top corner of whatever app you're listening to this on and follow so that as soon as there are updates, you will see them come across your screen and in the meantime guys let's just pray that these children all recover that they are safe for the rest of their lives and that justice really is served all right guys thanks for tuning into another episode and until the next one be nice don't kill people. All right, bye.