Serialously with Annie Elise - 147: Deranged 13-Year-Old Stabs Mother & Takes Selfie After?!

Episode Date: April 29, 2024

A haunting 911 call was placed just after 11:30 PM on October 12th, 2023 in Hialeah, Florida. The caller’s name was Derek Rosa, and he was a 13-year-old middle school student, and he told the dispatcher he had just stabbed his own mother to death. Shopify: Go to https://www.shopify.com/serialously to start a $1 per month trial Hiya: Get 50% off when you go to https://www.hiyahealth.com/ae  Beam: Go to https://www.shopbeam.com/annieelise and use code ANNIEELISE at checkout for 40% off! Follow the podcast on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@serialouslypodcast        Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/annieelise  All Social Media Links: https://www.flowcode.com/page/annieelise_       SERIALously FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/SERIALouslyAnnieElise/    Shop the Merch: www.shop10tolife.com      About Me: https://annieelise.com/      For Business Inquiries: [e-mail] Sources: WPLG Local 10 News CBS Miami Miami Dade Court Records Hialeah Police Arrest Affidavits Audio Credits: Law & Crime WPLG Local 10 News

At first I cut her right here. And her neck? This is like a type of vein that goes through her neck right here on both sides. Okay. And I stabbed her. Do you know what that's called? An artery or something. An artery?

Yep. Okay. You killed her? Alright. Hey true crime besties. Welcome back to an all newnew episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. I am here to break down another true crime case for you. Now, if you're brand new and you have never listened to this podcast before, let me give you the deets. So over here, we like to talk

about true crime, whether it's a case that's in the headlines or a case that is maybe on my mind for one reason or another. And what I try to do is break it down in a way where it feels more conversational. It doesn't feel like, you know, you're hearing this like flowery formal language and you can't follow it. I want it to feel like we're just friends. We're hanging out on my couch. Maybe we're having a glass of wine and I'm talking to you about a new case that I heard of or a Dateline episode I saw or something like that. Now if you're watching the video version of this over on YouTube, I just want to give a reminder. YouTube, as you know, censors the heck out of everybody. They restrict every single thing that

you say. So if you want these cases in an uncensored way, because you can quite frankly handle the grown-up language, I highly suggest tuning in to the audio version. And the reason I say that too is, I've said this before, but I feel like when we're forced to water down the language and not use actual legal terms, legal jargon, it dilutes the case. And it dilutes what these victims had to experience and endure. And in doing that, it almost in a weird roundabout way, makes the perpetrator look less evil. You know what I mean? Like YouTube, for example, won't even let you say the word child abuse without flagging you. But that's what a lot of these abusers are they are child abusers you also can't say the word pedophile so it's like these monsters who inflict these crimes on these victims if they can't even be called out for what they truly did it's my opinion it's just like it dilutes the

severity of what the experience was for the victim i think in turn then the true accountability and justice isn't really there if you're not calling it for what it truly is for what really happened. And that's not to say you have to get overly graphic or explicit. But the fact that you can't even use simple legal terms, it's just infuriating. So sorry, I kind of went off on a rant there. But I feel like I just wanted to, you know, give that disclaimer, especially if you are brand new here. And you don't understand how all of that works because you are a YouTube watcher. Anyways, let's get into today's case because obviously that is what you are here to talk about. Now, usually when I dive into a murder case, the big question is always who did it, right?

Of course, that's not the only thing that we wonder when we hear about a violent death or a situation like so many of these cases have. We want to know all of the five W's. The who, the what, the when, the where, and the why. And that's also the main principle that they teach in journalism. If you can answer the five W's, then you know exactly what happened in whatever story you're telling. And determining the who is the big central issue that you need to know in order to then press charges or get a conviction. You have to be able to say who committed a murder, even if you don't know exactly what weapon they used, where it happened, or when. But with no suspect, you've got nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

Except that is not the case with today's case. Everyone, including the police, knew exactly who did it right from the very beginning. But even now, months after this investigation, it's still really unclear why he did what he did. It all began with a 911 call, which was placed just after 1130 p.m. on October 12, 2023. And it's one of the more bizarre 911 calls that we've covered here, so I just want to break it down for you piece by piece. Can you speak English? I speak English. How can I help you?

Can you bring the police over here where I live? What is your address? I don't know my address. Are you by yourself with your mom? Yeah, no. My baby sister's here, too. She's sleeping. Did you kill your mom? Okay, where is the knife right now? I put it... Let me check. Wait.

I put it on the floor inside of the... Wait, no. Where is it? I can't find the knife. It's a little hard to follow, because the conversation jumped all over the place right from the very beginning. But the gist was that a young man was calling in to report that his mother had been stabbed, and he was the person who did it. Basically, the 911 dispatcher was trying to piece together exactly what went down right before this guy called her. But she knew that the guy had stabbed his mother in their home while his baby sister was there the entire time. And he was still at the house with that sister and with his mom. And in this call, he's now asking the police to come and get

him. Did you cut her neck? Okay. Where else did you stop her all the time cutting her neck? The caller's name was Derek Rosa, and he was a middle school student, just 13 years old. And I mean barely 13. His birthday had just been a few months prior. Derek lived in Hialeah, Florida. Now, Hialeah may not be as recognizable as Orlando or Miami, but it's still a decent-sized town. And it's actually the sixth biggest city in Florida, according to the city's website. And one of the reasons that it's so huge is that three different major highways all pass through it. So pretty much if you're in Miami-Dade County and you need to get from any given point to point A to point B, whatever it is, the odds are

that you're going to be passing through Hialeah. Now, this city has a pretty unique vibe. People are always coming and going, but what's interesting is not as many people actually stay there permanently. Hialeah also has a pretty good size Cuban refugee community, and overall, almost 95% of the residents are Hispanic. Now, some of these people have small family-owned businesses as well that they've been running since they first settled in southern Florida. And then there's all of these big have small family owned businesses as well that they've been running since they first settled in southern Florida. And then there's all of these big chains now coming in trying to grab those tourism dollars from all the people who are of course passing through. Everything just feels like it's constantly changing. So that's the kind of environment that Derek grew up in.

And Derek's life was always in a lot of transition as well. His parents were divorced and every other week he shuffled back and forth between his dad and his mom, Irina Garcia. When he was with his mom, they all lived in an apartment complex, along with his newborn baby half-sister and his stepdad. And that's where Derek was when he told that 911 dispatcher that he had just stabbed his mother to death. But just going by his tone and his word choice, Derek didn't sound like he had just murdered somebody. There were times in the conversation where he came across as very calm, very collected. Take a listen. Do you think we can help your mom? Yes, she's dead. Which honestly, wow, because I can't imagine being

so polite while saying something like that. It's honestly so bizarre. Based on his tone and even his word choice, from the way that Derek always said ma'am, for example, you would almost think that he didn't understand what he had done. Like he was in shock or dealing with some kind of like mental disconnect. I don't know. But obviously, Derek did know that this was an emergency situation. He wouldn't have called 911 otherwise. And I do think it's interesting that Derek wasn't quite together the entire time during this 10-minute call. Sometimes he almost seemed a little bit rattled. He couldn't remember his home address.

And again, I don't know if that's necessarily indicative of him being super shaken or if there was something going on with him. But then after the 911 operator asked where he was, it took Derek over four minutes to come up with an answer. I think I might have found this mail. Okay, what does the mail say? I'm trying to find the address. I think I found it. May I have it, please? I don't know how to read it, though.

That's fine, just give me numbers whatever you see I see Hialeah Florida and then it says what you just stay with me on the line okay do not hang up I honestly don't know what to make of all of that because we're talking about a 13 year old here, which yes, it is very young to be stabbing somebody to death, but not so young that he wouldn't know his own address or that he would be unable to read it off of a piece of paper or a piece of mail that was in the house. So again, it makes you wonder, did Derek forget his address in the moment because he was dealing with shock after his mom's murder? Or did this mental disconnect kick in before he committed the murder? Was it part of what pushed him to commit this brutal

crime? What's really going on here? I do think that it's safe to assume that Derek was particularly on edge given some of the things that happened in other parts of this call. happened? Something fell from my module and it scared me. Something fell from what, sir? It was, she has a handbag. I want her handbag fell. Okay, not a problem. I need you to put everything away, okay? I don't have anything in your hand. Okay, but I can have my phone in my hand. You can have your phone in your hand. Yes, you can. Now the whole conversation was like that. Derek was all over the place. And he also told the operator that he was worried about his baby sister. So the dispatcher told him not to have anything in his hands when the police came.

But Derek was worried that the baby might start crying and he would have to hold her. He would have to comfort her. Then he asked about his stepdad, Frank Ramos, who worked as a truck driver. He wasn't home that night because of his job, so Derek was worried that Frank would come back to this crime scene without Derek there to explain what had happened, and the dispatcher had to reassure him that the police would handle all of it. It was like he was so concerned with all of these other things, not really concerned with the fact that he just murdered his mother. It really wasn't working.

The math was not math and it wasn't making any sense here. Which I will say this, I can only imagine Derek must have been dealing with a lot of different emotions. And I'll say, he only came close to expressing remorse one time. And I'd argue that he didn't even go so far as saying that he regretted stabbing his mom. But he kind of came up right to that line. Listen. I didn't delete the pictures off my phone, but I sent them to him, and I told him that I was sorry, and then I said goodbye. I'm okay. I'm really sorry. I'm really sorry. We're here to help you, okay? We're going to help you. We're going to help your sister, okay? Okay. I know

you didn't mean to do none of that that you did okay okay we just want to make sure that you're okay i'm okay my mom's not okay i understand that we're going to try to see if we can still try to help her okay okay okay i think that's interesting he said he called a friend to tell him he was sorry, but Derek didn't actually say the words, I'm sorry, to the dispatcher, just that he said that he was sad and that he apologized to somebody else. And besides hinting around the idea of his possible remorse, there was one topic that Derek was not willing to discuss at all. So much so that when it came up,

he just completely changed the subject. Why did you do this to your mom? Can you tell me why? My stepdad telling my mom I could hear the phone. Okay, do not pick up the phone. Just stay with me on the line, concentrate, okay? Stay with me. Do you need fire rescue?

Are you hurt? No, I'm not hurt. I just have a little bit of blood on my hands. Do you have blood in your hands? Yeah. How did you get here so fast? Because this is a life-threatening emergency. We get to places fast. We're there to help you, okay? We're going to help you and your sister, okay? So now, after that one question about why he did it, the dispatcher didn't ask Derek again. Now, I'm assuming that this was a little bit strategic on her part, because all through the entire call, she seemed to know exactly what she had to say to Derek to keep him on the line, to keep him calm, keep him speaking, keep him engaged. Because like I said before, he did seem to fluctuate a lot between being

very collected and then being so on edge that he screamed out loud when his mom's purse fell out of the closet so she seemed to know how to maintain at least holding him on the line. The call did last 10 minutes after all. So the dispatcher kept repeating that the police would be there to help Derek. They were there to help his baby sister as well. They were even there to help his mom if it wasn't too late for her. Personally, I can't imagine hearing a child call in to say that he had murdered somebody and then being able to stay so focused afterward. I mean, hats off to this dispatcher. Now, after she asked Derek about his motives, and he totally dodged that question, the dispatcher didn't have him on the line for a whole lot longer. And then the police arrived on the scene about five minutes after the call first went through.

Around the time that they were pulling up, Derek peeked out the front door of his apartment to see if the officers were close. And you can actually see this on the family's ring doorbell camera. I see officers. I see officers. Do I leave? Do I leave my house? No, do not leave. Do not leave. The dispatcher later advises him not to leave the apartment. As the door closes, police lights flash in the distance. Now again, in that clip, Derek seems very, very calm. He is totally cooperative. Nothing about his body language or even his tone of voice or anything

sounds like what you would expect from somebody who just committed a cold-blooded murder. Except you can tell that he was freaking out. This was based on what he said to the dispatcher once he was back inside of the apartment. Okay, I'm here. So he's starting to wake. Okay. I'm standing here in the living room with the door unlocked. Should I unlock the door? No, just leave the door unlocked. Just make sure you don't have anything in your hands. Ah!

They're knocking. Do I open the door? They're knocking the door? Okay. Do I open? They're knocking. Stay with me on the line. Do not open.

Do not open until I tell you to, okay? Okay, tell me when to open, ma'am. Okay, I just want to open, ma'am. Okay, I just want to make sure that you have nothing in your hands. I only have my phone. Do I put my phone down? Okay, do not put your phone down until I tell you to. I just want to make sure that you have nothing in your hands, no guns, no knives. I don't have a gun or a knife.

I put the knife in my room, and then the gun is in the living room. Okay, stay with me on the line. Do not open until I tell you to. Okay. Minister, open the door. Do not open the door until I tell you to, okay? They're opening it. They're opening it. They're opening the door?

They moved the door handle and they said it was unlocked. That's fine. Do not open until I tell you to open the door and to make sure that you have nothing but your cell phone in your hands. Are they going to kill me? No, they're not going to kill you. We're here to help you, okay? We're going to help your family. I mean, all in all, it was just a very bizarre 911 call, like I said, because you have him kind of going all over the place, calm to not calm, to not really understanding what he had done or pretending he didn't. There was not really even a sliver of remorse in my opinion and it was just

one of the more bizarre calls that I think I've ever heard. So at this point with Derek inside and the first responders right outside, the operator was acting as sort of the go-between between both of them. This way the police could talk to Derek even if they weren't face-to-face with him yet. Eventually she told Derek to go outside with his hands in the air, and Derek complied, the same way that he had been complying this entire time. He opened the door, stepped out onto the landing, and right away, the police slapped him into handcuffs and took him into custody. Afterward, they searched Derek's apartment, and it was exactly like what he had described on his phone call. They found a 12-inch long kitchen knife. It had a purple handle, and it

also had a broken off tip, and this knife was absolutely covered in blood. And I'm not talking about a couple droplets here and there or droplets on the edge. It was like if you had grabbed a knife, dipped it in a bucket of blood, and then pulled it out. That is what this knife looked like. So it was pretty clear that this was the murder weapon. Derek's mother, Irina Garcia, was there lying on the ground next to the bed, and she had been stabbed over 40 times. There were slashes on her face, her neck, her torso, her back.

Literally the only part of her body that had not been cut was the back of her knees. That is how brutal this crime scene was. So it's no surprise that she was pronounced dead at the scene just as soon as the medical services team arrived and were able to look at her body. Now, Irina died pretty young too. She was just 39 years old, and she and her husband had just moved into this apartment about a year before, and even though they hadn't lived there for very long, Irina made a huge impression on her neighbors. They knew her as somebody who was always quick to smile and have a friendly chat with anybody that she bumped into. Just a really warm and loving person.

And boy, was she beautiful, guys. She had long blonde hair, this naturally beautiful big smile. And if you look at the photos from her during her pregnancy, you can see how excited she was to become a new mom again and how much she already loved that baby. There are so many snapshots of her cradling her belly, her long blonde hair, framing her face. She was just glowing.

Honestly, as cliche as that sounds, she truly was. She looked like a literal angel. Now, speaking of the baby, her name has not been released to the public, which makes sense because she was only two weeks old at the time that her mother was murdered. And in a horrific detail, she was actually in the room when her mother was killed. She was lying in her crib. Thank God, though, she was not hurt. And thank God she's only two weeks old. She will never remember it. But still, what a haunting thing to happen. I mean, truly. Later, Derek admitted that the reason he did not touch his baby sister was because he didn't want her to wake up and make a noise, which it does leave me

wondering if he would have hurt her if she had cried. Maybe. Luckily, we don't ever need to know the answer to that question though because she is alive and well. We are going to take a quick break in today's case to hear from our first sponsors of today's episode. Now let's go back to Frank, Derek's stepfather and the baby girl's dad. Since he was still out of town for work, the authorities contacted Irina's mother as soon as they had Derek in custody. They asked her to come and take care of the baby until they could sort out what was going on and until Frank got back in town. And in order to get a handle on exactly what went down, police sat Derek down in an interrogation room to see if he could help them sort out what was going on here, help them make sense of all of this. But they didn't get that. Instead, Derek spent about 20 minutes in questioning, and he never

told the police much of anything that they didn't already know from that 911 call. In fact, his body language and the words that he used were almost a little confusing. It was just like the conversation with the dispatcher, where sometimes he came across as very calm, very collected, even when he was talking about stabbing his mother in very, very frank and cold, callous terms. But then there were other times where Derek came across like a scared, confused little boy. And like before, he couldn't remember his own address. And he even blanked on his stepfather's name when the detectives were asking him for it. There's another example of this right at the start of the interrogation. The police had him sign a bunch of paperwork where

he waived his right to a lawyer and said that he consented to be questioned. And it was clear that he didn't understand some of these forms and the police had to go on and explain what was going on, what was happening, what these forms were, and what the purpose was. Okay, now read this whole paragraph. I have read this statement of my rights and I understand what my rights are. I am willing to make the statement and answer questions. I do not want a lawyer at this time. I understand and know what I'm doing. No promises or threats have been made to me no pressure or precision coercion that is that we're forcing you to do something you understand you're whatever you're doing you're doing on your own voluntarily basis

making an educated decision for yourself okay okay keep on of any kind of any kind has been used against me okay now we are investigating an incident that happened you know where you called police okay before we ask you any questions we want to make sure that you know this. And if you want a chance to explain yourself, the only way that we would be able to take your statement is if you agree to talk to us without the presence of an attorney. If you do, go ahead and sign right here. What's that, sir? An attorney is someone that can represent you in legal matters. Okay. Okay. Do you know what a lawyer is? Yeah, it's the same thing. Yeah,

same thing. But then, later, when it came time to talk about the murder itself, Derek just very calmly explained what happened. Again, he was not ruffled at all, even when the conversation became pretty disturbing. I'm going to play you guys a couple of clips from the interrogation to show you exactly what I mean. And your hands too? Yes. Okay. Where exactly did you cut her? At first, I cut her right here. On her neck? It's like a type of vein that goes through your neck right here on both sides. Okay. And I stabbed here.

A lot of blood spills out. Do you know what that's called? An artery or something. An artery? Yeah. Okay. And you purposely went for the artery when you cut her? Not purposely. I just went for the neck. But I hit the artery. Okay. And you purposely went for the artery? I purposely just went for the neck, but I hit the artery.

Okay. Was there a lot of blood after? There was a big pot of blood on the floor. I do want to note that the police did censor some of the more graphic parts of this next video before they released it to the public, so the sound will cut in and out a bit during this clip. So don't worry worry your speakers are working that's just how this clip sounds and also just as a heads up there is some discussion of self-harm and suicide in the next two and a half minutes so if that's something that you find upsetting to listen to you may want to fast forward a couple of minutes were you uh do you communicate

with people over the phone were you you talking? Tell me what happened tonight. Tonight? Yeah. Well, at around like 10, I went to bed. Okay. My mom did too. Is that your regular time? Like 9.

9? Yeah. Okay. You guys explain to me about the apartment. You have your own room? Yes. And your mom? Yes, she has her own room. She has her own room, and your sister?

She stays in the same room as my mom. Stays in the same room as your mom? And tonight, who was all there? Me and my mom and my sister. Okay. So you went to sleep around 10? Yeah. Okay and then what? I woke up. You killed her? All right um what type of what type of knife was it do you know? It was a big size kitchen knife. That big? Yeah. What color was the handle? Purple. Purple? Yes. Okay. Your mom was sleeping? Yes she was sleeping. Okay. Explain to me, well we'll get into that a little later what did you do after you killed her

my stepdad has I mean he owns two guns he has a Glock 19 okay and then I don't know what to call it another one okay what color are they the Glock 19 is black and then the other one has a silver slide and then like a dark bluish handle. Okay, so what did you do with the guns? He always has a Glock 19 with him, lot of times. And since he's a truck driver, he was at home, he was far away. Okay. So I went into the closet. I found his book bag because he goes shooting at gun ranges. Okay.

I grabbed the gun. I put the magazine in the gun. I pulled back to slide, but I didn't want to shoot myself. Okay. I intended to shoot myself before, but I didn't want to shoot myself. Okay. I intended to shoot myself before, but I couldn't. Like I mentioned, the interrogation lasted for about 20 minutes. That's how long it took for the police to ask Derek about how he committed the murder and what he did afterwards.

But then they turned their focus away from the hows and shifted it to the whys. And Derek once again basically avoided the question. to you or no she's screaming she just screamed yes okay um why did you stab your mom go to the bathroom before i answer that yes of course of course give me one second you want to thank him for the patrol team yes that patrol taken derrick spent about two and a half minutes outside of the interrogation room. And then when he came back, the police helped him settle in by asking a few easier questions. He repeated some of what he had said already,

and then the detectives chatted with him a little bit about his social media accounts. But then they got back to that million-dollar question. So you were about to tell me the why. Why did you kill your mother? Do you know? Do I have to say it now? Yeah, get it off your chest. Absolutely. I can only forever believe it.

Okay, at this point, you want a lawyer? Maybe not. We can't no listen listen just so you understand okay you have mentioned or asked us should you wait for a lawyer we're not here to advise you on whether to talk to a lawyer or not that decision is yours okay but if you are requesting a lawyer at this point, we can't interview you any further. Sam, we have to stop the interview.

Okay. Do you want us to stop the interview? Yes. Okay. Okay, then this interview will end right now. It is 3.05 a.m. Okay. Thank you.

Now, I think that this is really interesting, because this was the third time that somebody asked Derek why he did it, why he murdered his mother. And it's the third time that he just completely sidestepped the question. He wasn't hiding the fact that he did it. He wasn't hiding the fact that he murdered her at all. But he kept dodging the question of why. First, the 911 operator had asked, and he started talking about how his mom's phone was ringing

because his stepdad was calling her. In the moment, it probably didn't seem like he was being evasive. It probably felt like he got caught up because her phone was ringing. He was freaked out. He didn't know if he should answer the phone or not. Of course, he's not going to be thinking about explaining his motives in that moment, so that kind of makes sense. But then, he faced that exact same question a second time during his interrogation, and that's when he said he needed to use the bathroom. And now, it was happening for a third time, and he asked for his lawyer, and then that's how he stopped answering the questions entirely. He never

actually said the words, I don't want to answer that question, but just based on his reaction each one of those three times, it felt like maybe whatever Derek's motive was, it wasn't something that he wanted to talk about. It wasn't something that he wanted to get into. This was a kid who turned himself in. He voluntarily, in detail, talked about exactly how he stabbed his mother to death. He got graphic. That was all worth sharing, but now his motives weren't worth sharing? What was going on here? It's so weird, and truly confusing, and it really makes me think that whatever he was thinking, and for whatever reason he did do it, there's gotta be some story there that the police and the 911 dispatcher didn't know yet. But since he wouldn't explain it, the police didn't

understand what Derek's deal was, why he did this, why he murdered his mother. And now he had gotten himself out of the interrogation completely, and they couldn't ask him point blank anymore. So from there, they decided the only thing they could do was the next best thing, and that was to take a look at his history instead. Because, you know, maybe something from his past could explain why he'd not only killed his mother, but why he did so in such a gruesome and violent and shocking way. But when they started digging, instead of getting the resolution and the answers that they were hoping for, everything they learned about his background just sort of confused them even more. Because Derek didn't come across like a murderer at all. He was a good kid. He didn't have a

criminal record or any kind of history of getting into trouble at all. He was also very, very smart, which you might not guess from how much he struggled to even remember his basic information, like his home address or what an attorney was. But Derek always got A's, always got B's in school, and in fact, he was an honors student. He also always helped out around his house, and he always got along with his mom, until he didn't. His neighbors regularly saw him helping his mom carry groceries into the apartment after trips to the store. They never overheard any fighting or even got the impression that there was any real tension in the family either. And in fact, one neighbor gave a statement to the press, which was in Spanish, but when you translate it to English, she said, I was shocked, just shocked by

the news. I don't know what could have happened. There also have never been any sort of domestic disturbance calls to his apartment. No sign that Derek's mother or stepfather were abusive or that he had gotten into any sort of violent arguments with them in the past. I mean, I could go on, guys, but you get it. There was nothing whatsoever in Derek's background or history that indicated that he was the sort of person who could commit a murder or would have a motive to commit a murder. It was like this stabbing just came out of nowhere. Prison officials even had Derek undergo a psychological examination after his arrest,

just in case the murder could be explained by some sort of mental health breakdown or something, or a disorder that prevented him from thinking rationally and or controlling his impulses. So two different doctors talked to Derek, and afterward, they came back with very different possible diagnoses. One, who actually worked for the prison, said that Derek might have ADHD, while a different doctor thought that Derek was on the autism spectrum. Now, talking just in terms of statistics, there isn't a clear link between autism and violent crime. Some researchers think that people on the spectrum are actually less likely to be violent, but there really isn't enough research

out there to say anything for sure. ADHD, however, can be a factor in murders, like the one that Derek committed. People with ADHD, particularly if it isn't diagnosed or being managed well, can have difficulty resisting their impulses, resisting those urges. So maybe Derek just snapped, like he just snapped in the moment and stabbed his mother after an argument. This possible diagnosis might help explain a little bit how something like that could happen in somebody who otherwise doesn't seem especially violent or doesn't have a background that would indicate it would happen, but I also don't want to make it sound like having ADHD automatically makes somebody a murderer or dangerous to be around. Certainly not. If that is a factor,

and again, I'm not sure if it even is, it's just one piece of an even bigger puzzle, which we're not still seeing a whole picture here yet. Plus, I don't know which therapist in all of this, which doctor was right. If Derek had ADHD or autism or both, or if there was something else going on and both of them were wrong. And also, I do think that it's worth noting. The scenario that I just described, where Derek and his mom maybe argued and then he killed her on impulse and just snapped, I don't know if that's even true. It's all just speculation. Because even after he lawyered up and got sent off to a juvenile facility, Derek didn't tell anybody why he did it. I don't even know for sure if he did argue with his mom. That whole story could be way off base. We don't know anything. But the good news is, the detectives were able

to piece together a sort of timeline of the night of the murder, even without Derek's statements. And that's because there were cameras all over the apartment. Like the ring camera that I already played a clip from when he was on the phone with 911 that night, it also filmed him two other times that night. Both of these clips were from a few hours before the stabbing, and the footage showed Irina sitting in a chair by the front door with her new two-week-old little baby girl. Derek opened the door, went outside, and as he went out, he had an exchange with his mother. The exchange was in Spanish, so I'm going to read a translation of their conversation for you now. Irina said, don't run. And then Derek sort of paused and looked back into the house at her, and he replied, why do you always tell me don't run? And okay, fine, maybe it wasn't the friendliest

exchange, I don't know, but nothing here sounds high stakes enough that would warrant him murdering his mother later that night, certainly not. Then, the ring camera filmed him again. This was when he came back home a little while later. But it doesn't look like too much time had passed, because Irina was still sitting in the same spot. Now, this was the last time that the front door opened, and it was the last time the ring camera was activated, until close to midnight when the police arrived. But even so, we don't need to see any more ring camera was activated, until close to midnight when the police arrived. But even so, we don't need to see any more ring camera footage to know what happened next, right? Because later that evening, Irina went into her bedroom, which also functioned as a nursery,

her bed was next to the crib, and Irina had the newborn baby in her arms, the baby monitor turned on, and then at around 10 23 p.m. it filmed Irina lying in bed, cuddling with her daughter. But at some point after that, she put the little girl in her crib, and then went over 10 23 p.m it filmed Irina lying in bed cuddling with her daughter but at some point after that she put the little girl in her crib and then went over and fell asleep. Then 37 minutes after that a figure came into the room and again the baby monitor captured everything. The figure who the police later confirmed was Derek stood over his mother's bed. And then while she was still asleep, he stabbed her. He stabbed her over 40 times. It was just like what he said in his confession. At one point, she woke up and began screaming. But even this didn't stop Derek or slow him down at any point. He just kept stabbing her until she was dead. And we also know what Derek did next, what he did after he murdered his mom,

because he began documenting the entire crime on his own. First, he took photos of his mom's body, and then he took a selfie of himself with bloody hands. He was sticking his tongue out and flashing the rock on or the devil horn sign with his hands, with his red, just sticky, bloody covered fingers. I mean, it is truly haunting and disgusting to think about. It's also not something that you would expect from that scared-sounding little boy who called 911 and just sounded so calm. I don't know, it's like Derek's personality changed every couple of minutes over the course of the night. One minute he was sad, he was terrified. Then he was taking these pictures where he was basically

showing off, almost proud that he just murdered his mother. I don't know which of these moves was supposed to be the quote-unquote real Derek, but in either event, pretty disturbing. And one thing I do find interesting is that after Derek snapped all of those photos, he sent three of them to a friend. Specifically, two photos of his mom's body and that selfie that he took. He fired them off on his phone to his friend, which you gotta ask yourself, why? Why on earth would you do that? And the person that Derek texted these horribly gruesome photos to was somebody that he had never even met in person. See, this person was an online gamer who Derek had connected with at one

point about three years earlier, and Derek didn't even know this friend's real name, just somebody that he had met in the gaming community. The contact was saved in his phone as just Sweden. That was the name, Sweden, but not spelled like the country. It was S-W-E-E-D-E-N, kind of like the country, but with an extra E. And I gotta say, I cannot imagine what this person Sweden thought when his phone was just blowing up one night out of the blue with all of these gruesome murder pictures. But then Derek called him, and apparently that's when Sweden said that he couldn't believe what he was hearing. For his part, Derek again didn't offer any kind of explanation for why he had done it. All he said was, quote, goodbye.

It was kind of like what Derek had said during his interrogation. Now that his mom was dead, he decided that he was going to take his own life next. But then, just before he could end it all, he had this moment of clarity, where he realized that he didn't want to die. And I have to say, it's too bad that he didn't have a similar realization before he stabbed his mom or a similar moment of clarity. I mean, if he had stopped to think through that a little bit more, maybe she would still be alive. But I'm a little unclear on exactly what his mental state was at this time, whether he was regretting killing his mom, or if he even understood his own motives in all of this. All I know is that he put away the weapon

that he had been planning to use to kill himself. Then he dialed 911 to turn himself in. Okay guys, we are going to take a final break in today's case to hear from our final sponsors. So again, even with this huge, long, long trail of digital information showing basically every single beat of the crime, there was no real clarity around why Derek did it. He wasn't fighting with his mom before he stabbed her. She was asleep. She was asleep for the night. He also didn't seem to be in any kind of danger where he might have thought that he needed to defend himself for some reason. And even though it does sound like he was confused and not all there on the night of the murder, the psychiatrist didn't seem to think that there was a clear-cut psychological explanation either. At best, you might guess

that he was feeling extra impulsive thanks to the undiagnosed ADHD, but we know that that's not an explanation on its own. It's all just very, very bizarre, and when you don't have answers, it becomes even more disturbing and unsettling, in my opinion. But I do think that it is safe to assume that the murder was premeditated. I don't think that Derek just woke up with the sudden urge to stab his mother to death, stab her over 40 times. And the reason that I say that is because I'm basing that off of something that an investigating police officer said during one of Derek's hearings after his arrest. On October 12th at 6 p.m., he did make searches on Google.

He typed in the word, the carotid artery image diagram. What is the best place to stab someone? Is a small knife good for killing? Now, for a little context, those searches were all from the day of the murder. And like he said, all of them were around 6 p.m. But Derek didn't actually stab his mother until 11 p.m. So that means that he was planning this for at least five hours in advance. And besides the search terms that the detective had talked about, we also know that Derek googled, quote, is it easier to kill someone with a small

knife, quote. And also, quote, can a knife cut through bone, quote. He also looked up machine guns, even though we know that he didn't use one in the actual murder, but still an unsettling search. And during those same hearings, one other piece of information came out that might maybe explain Derek's motives a little bit better. You'll remember that in Derek's interrogation, the police asked him what specific curse words he shouted while he was stabbing his mom. His answer was censored out for whatever reason, but one of those officers took the stand and shared what Derek actually said during those censored portions. Apparently, Derek told the police that while he was stabbing

his mother, he used a homophobic slur against her. So I'm just speculating, and I want to be clear, this is all my own opinion, my own theory, my own guess, and I don't know how Irina identified in terms of her sexuality. I do know that she had at least two serious relationships with two different men, Derek's dad and his stepfather, who was the father of her new baby, but it is possible that Irina was bisexual, or that she identified some other way, but was interested or involved with women in some capacity, and maybe Derek had some kind of problem with that, and maybe that's why he killed her. Maybe if he had this extreme bias against LGBTQ people, he thought that this was worth murdering his mother Irina over.

And if that is the case, that could be why he didn't want to tell police why he did it. Because he thought that he was protecting her reputation by not blabbing to the world that his mother preferred women, or that she liked women, or anything like that. And again, I'm just guessing here. It's just a theory. It's also entirely possible that Derek was just being a 13-year-old little boy, a 13-year- old little shitbag, because there are tons of middle schoolers out there who casually throw different slurs around, especially homophobic slurs. And they say them without actually meaning to comment on anybody's

sexual orientation. It's just supposed to be a word, a jab, something like that, supposed to have a negative connotation to it. So it's definitely possible that that's what he meant by it. It maybe didn't have any rooted meaning. So that definitely could have been what happened. I mean, this detail could be a huge nothing. But with what the police did know, which was basically everything except his motive, they decided to charge him as an adult for first degree murder. And because Derek was being treated as an adult, that meant that he had to be transferred from the juvenile facility where he was being held for those first two weeks after his arrest over to an adult facility. So instead, he was moved into an adult penitentiary, specifically Metro West Detention Center.

Now, at the start of this year, in 2024, Derek's attorneys worked really hard to get that specific transfer reversed. They said that even though he was being charged as an adult, Derek should have still been held in juvie. They said that he was very, very young, and he probably wasn't safe being around a bunch of adult inmates. They even pointed to the fact that he still plays with Legos as evidence that he wasn't mentally ready to be in an adult prison. And in fairness, I do kind of understand that argument. I do see their point in that, because Derek might not be able to defend himself against any full-grown adult prisoners if they were to give him trouble or if they were going to try to attack him. But it's also not like he was out

mingling with the rest of the general population. So instead, since his transfer, Derek has spent almost every waking hour in his cell. The windows also have frosted glass, so the other inmates can't even see what he's doing during the day or the night. And there's a guard that's stationed outside 24-7. Now this is all on top of the fact that Metro West does have a juvenile wing, and Derek's not the only teenager in that detention center. However, he is the youngest inmate, and he's also the only minor to be under that kind of constant surveillance. Because again, the guard is literally outside of Derek's cell, and the glass is completely frosted. So in practical terms, he's been more or less in complete isolation since he first moved in there.

He's spending about 23 hours a day completely alone. He hasn't been getting any kind of regular instruction or classroom time either, and he has to get permission from his guards just to put on his glasses. Like if he wants to see, if he wants to see something, somebody else needs to say that it's okay. When his stepdad or other family members came to visit, he did get to see them, if the prison gave them all permissions to meet, which didn't happen at first until his first month at the facility. So to start, there were absolutely no visitors. However, there was one, only one, an inmate who, for whatever reason, the guards ended up being okay with Derek seeing on a limited basis. Now, I'm guessing that this was maybe somebody who was

close to Derek in age, so it didn't seem like he could be a potential threat, I don't know. But every day, for one hour maximum, Derek played basketball and exercised with this other guy. And that was the only time that he ever left his cell. If his lawyer or his family members came by, Derek could chat with them too. But then, all the rest of the time, he was just back in his room, behind that frosted glass, alone with his thoughts. I mean, who knows? Maybe he spent some of that time asking himself all the exact same questions that we're all wondering about. Why did you do it? Maybe he's thinking that to himself. Why did I do this? Why am I here? To hear it from Derek's attorney and the mental health professionals that they hired, Derek thought about suicide a lot after he was admitted into the adult facility,

but other prison officials actually tried to make it sound like he was doing well there. When Derrick's lawyers asked for a hearing to talk about moving him back to juvie, one prison official came out to the courtroom and said that Derrick was flourishing. That was a direct quote. Or be transferred back to juvenile detention. Now we did hear plenty of witness testimony today from Corporal Siren Wims. As a matter of fact, he had some time there giving his testimony. Miami-Dade corrections officer who works in the safety management unit over at Metro West. He went through the protective custody procedures for the 13-year-old as there was, of course, a lot of reference to this being a high-profile case due to the extensive media coverage. We also heard about Rosa's day-to-day routine. We also heard this in court as well. Right now at Metro West, there are 34 juveniles being held.

Rosa is the only 13-year-old. And that was their word, not mine. Literally flourishing. Now, usually, if you want to get an inmate moved from one prison to another, you can have a quick hearing to get that sorted out right away. But for whatever reason, Derek's time in court just dragged on and on and on. I mean, weeks and weeks of discussions. And during one of their last sessions,

the state's prosecutor played a recording of Derek's interrogation and confession. And during that, that chill, cool-as-a-cucumber boy that we once heard from and saw was gone. Completely gone. You could see just how worried he was the whole time that they were playing this video. The chilling interrogation video played in court. 13-year-old Derek Rosa allegedly confessing to brutally stabbing his mother, Irina Garcia, to death, and that he considered killing himself afterwards, but changed his mind.

Family members in the gallery are sobbing. So then, after no fewer than six weeks of debates in the courtroom, the judge did end up deciding that Derrick was going to have to stay in the adult facility, Metro West. He's going to have to stay there until his murder trial begins. Now, I do want to take a minute to talk a little bit about that attorney, because Derek hired a man named Jose Abias. Usually, I don't talk much about people's lawyers or who they hire, because at the end of the day, they're just doing their jobs. They're not directly involved in the crime. That's their job to defend their client. But I think that this was an interesting move on Derek's part because, as you may know, Jose Baez's client list is like a who's who of

high-profile celebrity defendants. He worked with Harvey Weinstein. He worked with Aaron Hernandez. He also, most famously in my opinion, worked for Casey Anthony. I don't know, maybe you've heard of one, two, or all of those people. But the fact that Derek is working with this lawyer to the stars, so to speak, kind of points at just how big I think this case is going to be whenever it does go to trial. I mean, Jose has even been posting TikTok videos to talk about Derek's case. Hello, my name is attorney Jose Baez, and I'm the lead defense attorney for Derek Rosa. Derek would like to thank everyone for all of their well wishes and interest in his case. This has been an incredibly difficult time for both

Derek and his family and we would like to take this time to thank everyone for their prayers. In that video, Jose goes on to explain that he's representing Derek pro bono, meaning that he's not charging at all for his services, but he still asks people to donate to cover other kinds of legal expenses. Now, it's not clear to me what those expenses are, what they entail, but I do think it's interesting given that Derek just got himself declared indigent, which that's the legal term for someone who can't afford a lawyer. So because of that, in theory, the state is supposed to cover his expenses using tax dollars to make up for whatever Derek can't come up with himself. But based on Jose Baez's video, it sounds like maybe they want to run up some expensive charges that go above and beyond whatever Derek was already approved for. That's what I assume they're

doing with that defense fund, although in fairness, he didn't get super detailed in that TikTok video, so I'm not sure. I'm just speculating here. Now, you might wonder who would donate to something like this as well, but surprisingly, or maybe not so surprisingly, because I feel like this kind of thing happens way more often than you would think, Derek has a lot of supporters. First, there's his family, which I guess you would expect that, of course, but at one of his hearings to try and get him moved from the adult prison to a juvenile one, a relative of Derek's actually shouted a phrase in Spanish at a reporter. It translates to,

you don't know him, he's a loving boy. But on top of that, since his arrest, Derek has almost become like a celebrity. Which I guess that's kind of what you would expect with a lawyer like Jose Baez, I guess, right? I don't know. But every time he has a court appearance, Which I guess that's kind of what you would expect with a lawyer like Jose Baez, I guess, right? I don't know. But every time he has a court appearance, all of these people, like 10 to 15 complete strangers, would get together outside the courthouse with signs and chants to show their support. Some of these people even flew in from out of state, and based on what they told the reporters,

it sounds like they were all coming to Florida because they thought that Derek was innocent which really strikes me as pretty weird guys because if there's one thing that I think is really crystal clear in all of this it's that Derek did it now they might be trying to say that he's innocent in terms of he wasn't responsible because of his age maybe because of his mental health whatever it may be maybe he had some sort of mental break but really those are the only explanations that I can even think of to defend what happened and to defend Derek. His confession was there. He said multiple times what he did. He took selfies, he took videos, he took photos, he sent them to people. Like, the writing's on the wall. I can't, I don't think you can really argue innocence here. But either way, Derek's supporters were spending day after day outside of the courthouse. And meanwhile, he went from one hearing after the other beginning in December of

2023 and then running all the way through to February of 2024. And while those sessions are now over, there's been a lot of speculation about what strategy Jose Baez could even have in mind once this case goes to trial. Mainly being, what are you going to say to defend a killer who freely admitted to committing murder and who turned himself in? Derek pleaded not guilty already, but honestly, I just don't see how he could possibly actually not be guilty. Again, I think it's all going to come down to the question of why he did it, and if he has a motive that actually feels relatable or not. I do know that at one point, Jose Baez and his team walked through Derek's apartment. This was after his arrest,

and it was weeks after he stopped living there. And Jose didn't publicly say anything about what they were looking for during that walkthrough, though. But of course, it generated a ton of news coverage anyway, both because Derek was getting to be famous already, and because this was such a weird move on Jose's part. The walkthrough was more than a month after the arrest, and the police had already cleared the apartment entirely. Derek's relatives had also been through, and they had contaminated anything that they might have missed, so there shouldn't have been any evidence left to find. I mean, the apartment was basically empty, because right after the murder, Derek's stepfather announced that he and the baby were moving out as soon as they could, which totally makes sense that he didn't

want to keep living and sleeping in a room where his wife was brutally stabbed to death. So the unit was almost completely vacant, which just makes you wonder what Jose and his team were even looking for. The rumor was that the defense team took all of these different measurements, of the dimensions in Irena's bedroom where she was killed, of the closet where Derek grabbed the guns that he was going to use to kill himself, all sorts of different measurements. They also said that it came down to trying to establish something about Derek's quote state of mind. And I don't know, I can't see how that could all fit together in a defense, but we'll have to wait and see. I mean, Jose was able to pull it off with Casey Anthony, so I guess TBD will find out.

But until Derek gets on the stand, or alternatively, if his lawyer tries to explain things in an opening or a closing statement, we're not going to know why he killed his mom. We don't know if it was premeditated or if he just snapped. And also why he decided to text a casual acquaintance about the crime or call 911 on himself. As for me, I think that the writing is on the wall. I think that he either, I don't want to say snapped because the Google searches do show a degree of premeditation, but I think that he is the one who wanted to execute a murder and successfully did so. It was overkill as well. 40 times the rage in him he must have felt to continue through that motion up and down, what, 80 times for 40

stabs to be inflicted, and he confessed, and he called 911 on himself. I think that maybe the situation is that now he's trying to save himself because he doesn't want to go to prison for the rest of his life, and that's where Jose comes in, but I'm curious to know what you guys think. Clearly, there's a lot that I don't know, and a lot that the rest of the world doesn't know yet either, but I'm curious if even Derek understands why he killed his mom, or if there was something going on psychologically or mentally that even he doesn't get on some level. I'm also so, so ready to see what kind of defense he offers at his trial, because frankly, I can't even begin to imagine what he could say at this point to justify what he did and why he did it. And I will note that even though Florida is a death penalty state, it's illegal to sentence somebody

as young as Derek to be executed. Because again, we're talking about a 13-year-old boy here. Still, if his motive isn't really compelling and if he is found guilty, he'll most likely spend the entire rest of his life behind bars. So I will definitely keep tabs on this case as it develops, and I'll come back with any news once it comes out. But until then, thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. I hope you appreciated the case coverage. If you want to make sure that you don't miss any future episodes of this podcast, take a quick second to make sure you're following it

so that you will be notified when we release a new episode. Also, if you feel like you want even more content to binge because you're running out of episodes and you're running out of true crime content, I do drop an exclusive bonus episode every single Friday. It's ad-free, and you can get access to that either through Apple Podcasts or over on Patreon, and I will link Patreon in the show notes below. We also have a ton of other bonus content over on Patreon, and I will link Patreon in the show notes below. We also have a ton of other bonus content over on Patreon, like one-on-ones with me, private group chats, merch discounts, all sorts of things, even and more bonus videos. So head over there if you want more bonus content and more behind-the-scenes action. All right, guys, thanks again, and if you have an extra

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