Serialously with Annie Elise - 153: ABSOLUTELY BARBARIC! Horrifying Details & Explosive New Recordings: Chad Daybell Trial Recap

Episode Date: May 10, 2024

Warning: Some of the details discussed in this episode are extremely graphic and difficult to hear. This week of the Chad Daybell blew the lid off with new witnesses and recordings we’ve never heard before. Jurors cried while seeing graphic images and hearing the barbaric details of what happened to JJ and Tylee. Karen Read Episode: https://pod.fo/e/22c58f Shop the Merch: www.annieelise.com Follow the podcast on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@serialouslypodcast Follow the podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/serialouslypod/      Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/annieelise    All Social Media Links: https://www.flowcode.com/page/annieelise_    SERIALously FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/SERIALouslyAnnieElise/    About Me: https://annieelise.com/   For Business Inquiries: [e-mail] 

Hey true crime besties, welcome back to an all new episode of serialously with me annie elise you know what time it is you know what day it is it is chad daybell trial recap day and i'm gonna do my best guys to not say anything about his dumb face in this episode I know I always say it and I talk about how I like disintegrate every time I see it I'm gonna just try to not say anything I can't guarantee it but I really am going to do my best I like I'm sitting here recording right now sitting on my hands as though that's gonna help stop me from saying something but whatever now before we get into this episode I do want to give a blanket trigger warning because some of these details that we're going to be discussing are extremely graphic. They

are very very difficult to hear no matter how familiar you are with the case no matter how many times you've heard it it never never gets easier. But this week the Chad Daybell trial was truly unbelievable there were points where I just was watching with my jaw on the floor not because of his ugly face did it did it did it but it was just because of what was going on because I like many other people thought that this trial was going to be a lot like Lori Vallow's trial. And while, yes, some of the evidence, it is the same, this week it kind of just blew the lid off with all these new witnesses, new recordings that we've never heard before, and jurors were crying this week, too,

when they were going through the photos of the children's bodies as they were excavated out of Chad's backyard. I mean, it was a very emotional week. They also heard the absolute gruesome and heartbreaking details of what the investigators discovered that fateful day. So all of that to say that it was definitely another nightmare of a week for Chad, to say the least. I mean, I have a feeling that the prosecution will be resting fairly soon, and I fully expect the defense to try to throw as many curveballs as

they can while it's their turn. But if you remember from the defense's opening statement, not only are Chad Daybell's kids expected to testify, but a DNA analyst who was part of the Amanda Knox exoneration team is one of the defense's expert witnesses. So today we're going to go over everything and we're going to be talking with Lindsay again, our courthouse correspondent. She's talking to us about everything that's going on this week at trial and we're going to get into all of it. Let's start with the prosecution because the prosecution called FBI Special Agent Steve Daniels to the stand to testify and what he was testifying about was how JJ was recovered. He started out by describing the

process of how he peeled back the dirt. They first found rocks, wooden planks, and then plastic wrapping with a body. Then he talked about how a small cut was made into that plastic, and a human hair started coming out. And he said, quote, that's the point we knew that these are the human remains of J.J. Vallow. And that's the point that this became J.J. Vallow's burial site. I mean, a very emotional moment in the courtroom, a horrible statement, horrible graphic detail. So Lindsay, can you go over what else he testified to? Now he originally started testifying Friday when he said that they found Tylee's Pura Vida necklace and a charm near the fire pit. Going into Monday, this testimony continued with that. So they talked about how they processed the

fire pit area and how they found some bone fragments and some organic material and pieces of cloth from the fire pit. While they were doing that, he said the smell of human decomposition was overpowering. So at that point, they set up grids to search closer to the dog statue by the pet cemetery and the fire pit. And as they continued investigating, digging in, digging in this, they were using hand tools at the time, but then later they used a backhoe and a tractor to help dig. And they found one large bone, and then they eventually found a second bone. And Agent Daniel said, with the size of the bone being found, I could also smell an odor I could associate with human remains decomposing. We knew there was something here, but we didn't know if

it was human or animal yet. Next, the jury was shown a picture of a bunch of bricks in the dirt, which ended up being Tylee's gravesite. After that, the pictures that were shown, they no longer showed to the public. They just showed to the jury, but since I attended the Lori Vallow trial, I have seen those pictures, and unfortunately, they are forever burned into my mind. So the next photo, he described it. He's like, you can see the bigger bones sticking out of the ground and that her remains were melted together in the ground. At this point, they know, okay, it's for sure a human body. They set up blue tarps and they were trying to find any possible human remains that were in the ground. The next picture was shown and Agent Daniels testified that he almost didn't even know how to describe it, but said it was a mass of a human dismembered and melted and a green bucket with part of a skull.

And again, I've seen these. They are horrific. I will say some of it, it doesn't even look anything human at this point. It was really hard to recognize like what you were even seeing. And then he says, you know, it took a while for us to figure out what happened here. What is this? He said that they tried to lift the remains out of the ground, but they all fell apart. So when they collected them, they had to put them all in separate body bags. So next the jury was shown pictures of the shed and the entryway and some of the tools in Chad's shed. He said, quote, knowing that we were dealing with a burial, one of the things we're interested in tools. There were several tools hanging or leaning on the wall in the shed, including a pickaxe and several shovels that were seized as evidence. Some bricks found on the side of the shed were also seized. The bricks were similar to those

found on Tylee's burial site. Other items, including bush clippers, some saws, and an axe were also seized from the garage. Next, he went more into JJ and the discovery of his gravesite. So then the prosecution showed a picture to the jury. The public can't see this. And it's a picture of three huge rocks that are underneath the dirt where they had looked. And this agent said it pretty much screamed out that something's wrong. They shouldn't be here. And we need to look into this because guys these rocks are almost like i don't know like if you think of a rock that people put in their yard like a large rock i don't know who puts rocks in yards but i don't know why that came to my mind but similar to that but the rocks were white after they they found the rocks, Agent Daniel said

that this was a good indication that this was a burial due to the precise manner the rocks were placed. He went on to say, I've probably excavated about five to seven burials. Out of all those burials, this is the most precise. Somebody's taken the most effort to bury these remains. You would place planks and rocks to prevent wildlife from finding human remains. If they scattered the human remains, a neighbor or someone else could discover them, so a grave is more hidden. So it's interesting, you have Tylee whose remains, I can't even say they were buried. I mean, I'll say it the way Summer, Lori's sister, said it. They were discarded in the ground like trash, literally. And then you have JJ buried in this precise way. It almost makes you think, okay,

well, why were they buried so differently? Why is Tylee destroyed? The whole thing is so sickening. The Idaho medical examiner who looked over JJ and Tylee's remains also testified. And listeners, this was absolutely horrific. It was so disgusting to hear. Even when you feel like you've heard it all, it still just jolts you every single time. So Lindsay, what can you tell us about that? So the medical examiner conducted the autopsies on Tylee and JJ, and this day was extremely hard for the jurors. Some were crying. There was tissues being used. No one was sobbing like there was in Lori Vallow's trial, but you could tell this was really, really affecting some of the people on the jury.

So he talked about JJ and Tylee's condition of their bodies when they arrived at the Ada County coroner's office after they were discovered. And at this point, the jury was shown pictures of JJ in a body bag wearing red pajamas. So JJ, his entire body was wrapped in a large black, almost looked like a tarp-like material. And inside the bag is where JJ was. Now inside the bag, he was wearing his red pajamas. He was also wearing a pull-up nighttime diaper. His body was decomposed and he had duct tape around his hands, his wrists, his ankles. JJ was also found with two plastic bags over his head. And when they took off the bags, JJ had duct tape from his eyes down to his neck. Literally, the tape was across his entire

face, like from ear to ear, multiple pieces of tape. So once he conducted the autopsy on JJ, he looked into his organs and did the internal examination. Obviously, nothing was wrong. And based on his observations, he said there was some bruising around his ankles and wrists, which could have been from the duct tape. He said it's not uncommon for things like that to happen, but it would be difficult to tell He was suffocated from the tape over his mouth, over his face, and the multiple plastic bags put over his head, as well as the large bag he was in. Now, most disturbingly, he talked about these, there were a few scratch-like abrasions around JJ's neck and the prosecution asked, you know, do you know what that's from? Obviously said, we don't know. It's almost impossible to tell. However, because of the location, it leads us to believe he might have been scratching his neck to get the plastic. Tylee, unfortunately, came into the coroner's office in multiple different bags each bag some had parts of vertebrae organs tissue charred bone fragments and the green melted bucket where Tylee's skull

was found because guys it was literally like melted together now they didn't find all of Tylee they just found what they could the organs that they found were her lungs and her heart. They were both charred and specifically her heart was charred and shrunken. Unfortunately, since they only had those parts from Tylee and like I said, her bones were charred, that her organs, they were unable to determine cause of death. I can only imagine. I can only imagine the emotion that was going on in that courtroom during all of this. Now next, we heard from Melanie Boudreau, who now goes by Melanie Palowski since she's remarried. This is Lori Vallow's niece, who was extremely close with Lori right when all of this was going on.

She deeply believed in everything that Lori and Chad were saying, and she was actually supposed to testify at Lori's trial, but made several statements that wasn't by accident. I think that that was orchestrated, but that's just my opinion. And this time around, Melanie showed up, and she testified. So, Lindsay, tell us about that because I feel like everybody has been waiting to hear what Melanie had to say through all of this and everybody was hoping she would have testified at the last trial, but I feel like people were on pins and needles waiting for what she had to say. So tell us, how did this go down? What did Melanie say? Yes, so Melanie Boudreau slash Melanie Polowski testified and we've never heard from her before. First, she said

that she talked to Lori and Chad about light and dark. She explained what castings were and how they use them and at first how they would hold hands and kind of chant or almost like praying. She also said that she did a casting with Lori for Charles. She said that JJ was labeled as dark by Chad and so was Tylee. But here's what's interesting. She also said that all the information Lori was getting was from Chad and then Lori would convey it to her because Chad was the one that had the ability to discern between light and dark. So if you remember, Lori's apartment was right next to Melanie's, but Melanie didn't move in there until late October, beginning of November. She didn't exactly remember, but she did visit Lori in her apartment in Rexburg at the end of September. And she said that JJ and Tylee weren't there.

She asked Lori, you know, where's Tylee? She said that Tylee was with a friend at BYU and that she hired a nanny to take care of JJ. We also know that Tammy died on October 19th. And at the time, Lori was in Hawaii with Melanie. What's interesting is she said that Alex was supposed to join them, but Lori told her Chad needed his help with something, so she stayed back. She talked about the Church of the Firstborn and how Lori and Chad's mission was to start the Church of the Firstborn to help bring the second coming of Jesus Christ. She said that Lori was the person that talked about zombies and what it meant to be possessed. But she said that Chad was the one that came up with all of this. Again, all of this is

coming from Chad to Lori. Lori's telling Melanie. Now, remember, she was in the inner circle of all this. And not only that, but she believed a lot of what Lori and Chad were saying at the time. And she's been really silent since. And a lot of people have wondered, you know, what all does she know? Did she know more? And the prosecution asked all of those questions. Yeah, I agree. I was wondering if we ever would hear from Melanie. So I'm glad that we did. Next, her husband Ian testified. And this is where it gets really crazy because we heard recordings that have never been made public before. And not only that, but Chad Daybell speaks on these. So they met on a dating app for Mormons and almost immediately after, seven days later,

Ian asked Lori and Chad for their blessing so that he could marry Melanie on a Zoom call. Now, the reason he did this is because he said that the time when he met Melanie, Melanie really looked at Lori and Chad like a mother and father figure. Now, digging a little bit deeper into that, one of Lori and Chad's crazy ideas, they believed that in a past life, Melanie was one of their children. So then Ian gets married and he says before they got married, he knew some of her beliefs, but not all of them. But when they got married, in fact, on their wedding night, she told him that she was scared that something happened to Tylee and JJ. And whatever she told him made him really scared for his two children that he had with his ex-wife. He was also concerned because he said that Melanie, again, looked at them like a mother and father figures and that she was extremely susceptible

to everything that they were telling her. So after whatever was said on their wedding night, which can you imagine? You get married on your wedding night. You find all this out that makes you so worried for your children and your ex-wife's safety. He actually called the police and started secretly recording Melanie's phone calls when she would talk to Alex, when she would talk to Lori and Chad, all of it. And he actually started recording on his honeymoon at the request of law enforcement because he called the FBI. He was like, look, this is something weird. Now, these recordings are unhinged. You can hear Lori saying, here's your daddy. And Chad saying, we're alive. Oh, I miss you. I'm your daddy. We're alive. Melanie was crying saying she missed them.

And they said that they were trying to step away because things were getting too hot in Rexburg. Because remember, at this point, they had hit the road. After Rexburg police came to Lori's apartment the second time looking for JJ, they hit the road. Now, in this call, they talk about the police being liars, the police being dark. Lori is pissed that Melanie Gibb was cooperating with the police. And she says there

will be three things coming to her for that. She says she lost her place in the group, that she'll be accountable for her knowledge, and that basically her calling the police was stupid. She's like, what, you just call the police and tell and be a liar? Since Melanie Gibb had admitted that she lied about having JJ. So Lori is kind of just, what are you going to tell them now after you've lied to them? Then there's a recording where Lori and Chad are telling Melanie that she needs to leave Rexburg. And this is really where you pretty deep, and they're going to see you as the target since you're the only one that they've really been trying to find. For your own sake, for your own sanity. Chad says Melanie and Ian need to leave Rexburg, and they're like, wait, what do you mean?

We just got married. We just moved into our place. His kids live close. What do you mean we need to get out? You said this was supposed to be the place of safety. And Chad says, yeah, well, I've had more visions and there's been a lot of turmoil that I've seen. The plague is going to sweep there. Plague is going to sweep there. And I also have had visions of civil unrest, chaos, people fighting and starving. And basically Chad says, there is bad stuff happening before it turns to the

City of Light. Vin says, that's why we fled. And we were told to flee. Yeah. I was dead listening to this. And especially because, you know, we've heard Chad on that one patriarchal blessing, but we haven't really heard him joke about, yep, better flee Rexburg. We haven't heard any of that. But at this point, they're trying to tell Melanie, you need to leave because the police are not going to stop harassing you about where Tylee and JJ are since they know that you're close to us unless you leave. And then Lori jumps in. She's trying to tell Melanie, well, look, here's the thing. Like, yes, we said Rexburg was going to be a safe haven for when all this stuff went down. But this is a

quote, Lucifer is able to negotiate terms to this day with eternal law and that we had no idea the police in Rexburg were infiltrated with such dark people. Then Chad chimes in, I hate to say it, but you need to get out of that city. And he was really gung-ho about them leaving. So Melanie's grappling with, okay, you're telling me I need to leave now. Can we go to Idaho Falls? Where can we go? Which Idaho Falls is about 30 minutes away from Rexburg. So they're trying to, they're grappling, trying to figure out what to do with this information. So she then asks, look, can I get a blessing from you, Chad, to her and Ian? And Chad, of course, yes. I'm a patriarch.

I'll give you a blessing. And in this recording, Melanie says, Oh, I just, I feel angels in the room again. It feels like the same number of angels like we did when you gave Zulema and Alex a blessing. And then Chad says, quote, The Savior is very pleased. Very, very pleased. Chad's acting like right then and there he can see stuff in heaven. And then Chad says, quote, We are on the right track.

I gave you my testimony. We are the genesis of the 144,000, the beginning of a new terrestrial order. We can use our powers fully and continue to cleanse the earth and bless it. I promise you a home in the new Jerusalem. I bless your union and know that the Savior is standing there with us and he is very pleased very very pleased with your choices they might not make sense to the celestial world but in the terrestrial and celestial world they make perfect sense

for your valiant efforts you will be memorialized and they are singing praises in heaven. I see a fire of thousands, like they make up the songs as they go, like Lolo does. They're praising you too, right now. And just singing, singing to the heavens for what you've accomplished. We will be beacons of light, we will be pillars of fire. He also says that he's going to close all dark portals near them and keep any dark beings at bay. That he's going to remove curses and negative weapons or cords they have attached to them. Chad says,

Then in another recording, it's Melanie, Lori, Chad, and they're all talking about how Alex died. Melanie's upset because her and Alex were close. Then he says, quote, seems like such a tragedy. I can see that Al, Alex, is triumphant and exalted. And he's saying over and over, I can talk to you so much more now. I can't believe the avenues that are able to help you, Mel. Seems like such a tragedy that I was triumphant, exalted. And he is saying over and over, I can help you so much more now. I can't believe the avenues that are now open to me to help you, help Mel, help with the children. This is my next step of my mission to help you all from this time in a powerful, protective way. Wait, I could not even imagine what he's saying.

I will. He's crying, but I will. Now at this point Chad's crying. He's saying, fear not, while he's crying. Fear not. Then Maury jumps in, and she's talking to Melanie, and she's saying, we are so grateful for you. We can count on you to be valiant, faithful warriors. You have great missions, and we'll see a new Jerusalem with all of your children. You will go on assignments. I see Melanie being in charge of bringing the children back. You will have the opportunity to help so many children. And then Chad, God, then Chad chimes in and he says, I endow you with power at this time to have the strength during this time of sorrow. Alex is powerful and glorious at this moment as we move swiftly and quickly into the celestial world. The Lord is coming soon and we are his warriors and we are preparing to cleanse

the world. But in an interesting detail, she says, I don't want Brandon to know. I want him to be in fear for the rest of his life. So she's saying she doesn't want Brandon, her ex-husband, to know Alex has died. Why is this important? Because Alex was behind the attempted shooting on Brandon when Brandon was pulling into his driveway and was shot. That was Alex trying to kill him. And now you have Melanie saying, I don't want Brandon to know. I want him to be in fear of him for the rest of his life. So is she talking about the shooting? Does she have knowledge there? We don't to know. I want him to be in fear of him for the rest of his life. So is she talking about the shooting? Does she have knowledge there? We don't really know. Maybe she was just saying, you know, I want him to be scared of him for the rest of his life as in he'll be so scared of my

protector, Alex. I don't know. That's not even the craziest part of this call. Lori jumps in and says Tammy was here the other day. Tammy said the Rexburg police was ridiculous and that Alex will be handling them all now. And then they all start laughing. And then they continue to talk about Alex's death. And Lori said, listen, everything's going to be different, but I'll set it up that I have Chad and you have Ian so that we both have a protector now. So yeah, don't ruin it with Ian. And then Ian's like, oh, she's not going to run me off while he's recording this whole thing for the FBI, but that's another story. And then Chad gag, gag, gag, gag, cringe this statement. Chad says,

if you ever need to talk to dad, here I am. Ha ha ha. And actually on the stand, Ian admitted that he has referred to Chad as dad a few times in the past, just in support of Melanie and how she looked to him. And so we've had horrific details about the children. The jurors are crying. Now we're getting in Melanie. Then we hear these recorded, wacky, I can't even just wacky recordings with these people that sound literally insane. Zulema comes. Okay, I'm glad you said that because I don't know if I just like spaced, if I blanked, but I had no idea that Zulema was going to be testifying. I guess I should have expected it, but I don't know if I was just like having a brain freeze or what. But when I saw that on the TV, I was like, hold up, Zulema's testifying? Now, for those of you who don't know if I was just like having a brain freeze or what, but when I saw that on the TV, I was like, hold up. Zulema's testifying? Now, for those of you who don't know, Zulema was married

to Lori's brother, Alex Cox, and she was married to him at the time of his death. Like Melanie, Zulema was also part of this like twisted, weird, culty inner circle, so much so that at one point, she actually believed that she had the power to control the elements and she believed everything that Lori and Chad were saying. I mean hook, line, and sinker which is just kind of unbelievable to me but we see people get brainwashed and kind of like sucked into these cults all the time. So Lindsay what can you tell us about Zulema's testimony? What did we hear here? What was that like? So Zulema is talking about how she met Lori, how she met Chad.

They were talking about gathering the 144,000 and that they were the angels, as in Lori and Chad were the angels. She said that when she met Chad, he gave her a blessing and that it was just her, Chad, and Lori. And she said that it felt as if Chad was looking into the future, telling her how special she was, all the gifts she had, and gave her a lot of praise during the blessing. She said that Chad could read people's past lives and that he wanted to do a reading on her and gave her a rating of 4.2 light. She said that Chad brought up that he was a heavenly brother of God and Jesus and that he'd also been the Holy Ghost in a past life. Zulema described how someone becomes dark and she said that when a person passes away, there's a small amount of time when the body is still viable and it can be occupied by a dark spirit or demon and that the original spirit went into limbo, which is why they had to kill the zombies basically. She also talked about how Lori and Chad were both talking about things like this but Chad was ultimately the one that decided who was

light and dark. Zulema was also asked about if she ever talked to Chad about being exalted and what that is and Zulema said that exaltation basically means that you've become a righteous person spiritually minded and through Jesus Christ you're ex, meaning you've earned a place in the celestial realm. So basically, you're a good person in life, you go to heaven. But then she says Chad was teaching it differently. Chad was teaching it that if you've been exalted in a prior life, because remember, they believe in multiple lives, that in this life, you don't have to become a righteous person because you've already done that. And basically that quote, there's no need for repentance in this world, meaning that it didn't really count for you because you've already reached that level. And she said that Lori said this all the time.

She also said that, again, all of this was coming from Chad. So it really makes you wonder what the hell was going on here. You can do whatever you want and you don't need to worry about it because you were already a god in a past life. That is what he was teaching. And at the time, Zulema believed this too. She believed that she could control the elements, that she could control the weather, and Chad told her all this. She said she also saw Chad's rating system that were on his computer and surprise, surprise, all of his children were rated light and two of Lori's children, Tylee and JJ, were dark. She actually said that all of Chad's family was light and that so many people in Lori's family were dark. The way that Chad knew this, according to Zulema, she said that Chad had access to a book of life and so that he could use it to see someone's life or

their past, present, or future. But of course, spoiler alert, she was never shown the book. Zulema also talked about the night of October 9th. And remember, October 9th was when Tammy Daybell, when the attempted shooting happened, this was 10 days before she died. She talked about that she was at Melanie Boudreau slash Pulaski's house in Arizona. Now, all these people are from Arizona. Melanie, Lori, Melanie Gibbs, Zulima, they all lived in Arizona. So that's why I'm saying Arizona. And at the time, Melanie still lived there. This was before she moved to Rexburg. So she goes over there and they're going to do a casting on Tammy. She described how Lori learned about the castings

from Chad and that she was in communication with him the whole time and that the way that they and they're going to do a casting on Tammy. She described how Lori learned about the castings from Chad and that she was in communication with him the whole time and that the way that they would determine if the casting was successful or not was basically they had to ask Chad. So she says that she was told that Tammy was a demon and became a zombie and that they were going to do a casting. But this time Lori said that they, as in Chad and Lori, had been given new information about casting. And this time they were going to use the Cosmos. Then the prosecution asks, did you end up learning that something actually happened in Idaho that night? She says, yes, the attempted shooting.

And then they say, well, did you hear Lori on the phone afterwards? And she says, yes, I did hear her on the phone. She was extremely irate, angry. I've never seen her that upset. She was calling the person names like moron, stupid, idiot, like very, very, very angry. After she hung up, she said out loud, idiot can't do anything by himself. So then the prosecution asked, well, did you hear when Tammy died on October 19th? Did you talk to Lori about this?

So once Zulema learns that Tammy actually died, you know, on the 19th, she talks to Lori about Tammy's death. And Lori said that her and Chad received new info that had been given to them by angels, that they now knew how to do a real casting that would be successful and finally cast out a demon. And that's exactly what how after Tammy's funeral, Chad would move into her apartment, how Lori talked about how they needed to be together to fulfill their missions, that they were eventually going to be together. She said that when she was around Chad and Lori after they got married, they were like embarrassing to be around, acting like newlyweds, could barely keep their hands off each other. Neither of them seemed sad. They were very happy and giggly. And Zulima said he was crying to me as he was reading it because he really, really believed it. So then the prosecution asked about Alex and if Alex would do what Chad told him. And Zulema says, yeah, he did, especially since Chad asked him things in a blessing and said that Jesus Christ was asking him to do that. So they started dating October 31st, 2019. They got engaged on November 7th. Alex had also printed out the patriarchal blessing that Chad gave him and he was reading it to Zulema and Alex believed it. And Zulema said he was crying to me as he was reading it because he really, really believed it. So next, the prosecution

asked about Alex's death and she said that before Alex died, he went to Mexico and he came back and then he was sick and that's when he passed away. But what's interesting is that the day before his death, he got a phone call from Lori and Chad talking about Tammy being exhumed. And to Zulema, she's like, this was so weird. She wondered why they would be exhuming Tammy. Why were Lori and Chad calling Alex about it? The whole thing seemed off and weird. So she asked Alex point blank, if they exhume her body, are you going to be tied to anything that happened to Tammy? And he said no. But then she says that Alex's demeanor changed after the phone call. And he told Zulema, I think I'm going to be their fall guy. And she asked what he meant and to explain more, but that he didn't say anything. And that as he was walking away, he said, Zulema, I'm either a man of God or I'm not. One of the last things Zulema said in her testimony was that when Chad had access to this book of life and could see everyone's past, present, and future, Chad told Zulema that in a past life she was raped, killed, that her body had been dismembered and burned, which you have to ask yourself, that's exactly what happened to Tylee,

except for the rape part. We don't know anything about that. There's been no evidence whatsoever that she was sexually violated in any way. And I'm certainly not saying area, it looks like some type of ritual killing. Now, we don't know that it was a ritual killing. That was just my observation from the pictures that I have seen at Lori's trial. And it literally looks satanic. I can't describe how horrific this truly was and what these poor kids went through. It's horrifying to think about. I am so glad you brought that up because we also heard details about the tools that were recovered from Chad's shed, which were analyzed by the FBI. On four of the tools, I located what I thought could be human remains and I collected that material. I photographed it and then I performed DNA testing on a portion of it. What were the results of that testing? The DNA profile from this item matched Tylee Ryan. It is at least 604 octillion times more likely to see this DNA profile

if Tylee Ryan is the source than if an unrelated, randomly selected individual from the general population is the source. And then right after that, that infamous raccoon text was introduced into evidence. Well, I've had an interesting morning. I felt I should burn all of the limb debris by the fire pit before it got too soaked by the coming storms. While I did so, I spotted a big raccoon along the fence. I hurried and got my gun and he was still walking along. I got close enough that one shot did the trick. He is now in our pet cemetery. Fun times. It's mind-blowing. Every time I hear this, I just think to myself, like, what a complete moron. Like, what is he even, what was he thinking he was doing in that moment when he was sending those text messages? Did he actually think he was, like, doing something

strategic? Did he actually think that he was doing something smart smart and then I just think of his like you know dumb brain dumb face and like him telling Lori that you know he wants her to pull him by the storm disgusting I could honestly vomit right now because yeah if you don't know he refers to his penis as the storm like guys I'm sorry like First of all, ew. Cringe, ick, disgusting, but also like so pathetic and like I can't help but laugh. Anyways, anyways, you've got to find like the moments in this where you can just like roast this creepy cult leader freak for who he is. I'm interested to see what happens next week too because I feel like every time I think that I know where this trial is going or what to expect it just like you know pushes me flat on my ass and I'm floored and there's some new detail some new piece of information so we'll see what happens next week thanks again Lindsay for sharing

all of your expertise and thank you to all of you listeners for tuning into another episode of serialistly and the chad recap If you missed the episode that I put out yesterday, we also are now adding Karen Reed trial recaps into the weekly mix because so many of you have been following that case. And again, I know it's very difficult to follow all of these trials as they're happening in real time. But the Karen Reed trial, I mean, wow. There is a lot of reasonable doubt, in my opinion. So I put the trial recap up yesterday. You can go listen to that if you're not familiar with that case. I also had linked in the show notes of that episode the full deep dive of the case so that you can get fully caught up.

Because, guys, if you're a true crime enthusiast, you need to know about that case. You've got conspiracy, cover-up, police officers, murder, a girlfriend murdering a boyfriend, like all this stuff and all of this reasonable doubt for good reason too. So definitely check that out. Anyways, thank you guys for tuning in to another episode. I will be back on the mic with you first thing Monday morning. All right guys, thanks again and until the next one, be nice. Don't kill people. Talk to you soon. Bye.