Serialously with Annie Elise - 160: The “Bad Breath Rapist”, Mom Murders 4 Year Old with Mountain Dew & Gang Orders Hit on Charlie Adelson

Episode Date: May 30, 2024

Headline Highlights: Today’s episode dives into everything happening this week in true crime. From new cases to updates on existing ones and more. In this week’s episode, we’re discussing all of the latest updates, new cases, and everything going on in the true crime world. Adelson Deep Dive: https://pod.fo/e/208079 Shop the Merch: www.annieelise.com Follow the podcast on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@serialouslypodcast Follow the podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/serialouslypod/      Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/annieelise    All Social Media Links: https://www.flowcode.com/page/annieelise_    SERIALously FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/SERIALouslyAnnieElise/    About Me: https://annieelise.com/   For Business Inquiries: [e-mail]  Sources: Court TV Law & Crime True Crime Daily Audio Credits: Court TV

Hey true crime besties, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise, live from Nashville edition. I am here for CrimeCon, so if you guys are here for CrimeCon, I can't wait to meet you. If you just live in the Nashville area and you want to come to our free meetup tonight, all of the details are posted over on my community page over on YouTube, but I am so, so excited to be here. It is going to be a really fun weekend. I also am doing a live episode with Dr. Leslie Dobson on Friday. I think we're doing it, what, at 6 30? Yeah, so if you are at CrimeCon, make sure to add that to your lineup. episode is called how to spot a psychopath and we are going to be talking about all sorts of psychopaths all the red flags and all of that

and for those of you who are just tuning in we are doing our headline highlights segment this week for thursday so we're today's episode we're talking all about the new cases that are breaking this week in the true crime world updates updates to existing cases, which there have been some updates to like the Adelson case, which is just wild, and if you aren't familiar with that case, I'll leave the link to the full deep dive episode, but there's some updates we got to talk about there. There's some new cases, and it's interesting because I feel like today's episode centers around family, and that wasn't done intentionally but almost every case and segment that we're going to be discussing is talking about different families different dynamics people who are involved together as family people who are covering up for their family I mean all sorts of

things so let's just jump right into the first case it's a case about a diabetes child murder so last week in Ohio a mother named Tamara Banks was sentenced to 9 to 13 and a half years in prison. This was after pleading guilty to involuntary manslaughter back in March. Now the details of this case are not only mind-boggling, but truly like revolting, disgusting, sickening. Let me give you a little bit of the backstory here. So Tamara's 4-year-old daughter, Carmody, was rushed to the hospital back in January of 2022. This was after she was found unconscious. She was declared brain dead, and then eventually she was taken off of life support before she passed away. Then, a year and a half later, in July of 2023, Carmody's parents were

indicted for murder, involuntary manslaughter, and for two counts of child endangerment. Now, after Carmody died, of course, an investigation had to be opened, right? They needed to figure out what had happened. How did this seemingly healthy four-year-old little girl just end up unconscious, brain dead, and then pulled off of life support? Well, as the investigators were doing some digging, they learned that Carmody had died of diabetic ketoacidosis. This is after having diabetes that went undiagnosed and untreated. Now while on the surface maybe that could happen accidentally, I don't know, maybe they didn't know that she had diabetes so that's why it went untreated, that's not at all what really happened here. Because if that isn't bad enough or if the

neglect isn't severe enough just with the diabetes going untreated, just wait until you hear what her diet was. Her parents mostly fed her Mountain Dew. Mountain Dew that was mixed with baby formula. I'm not kidding guys. They would put this mixture in a baby bottle. Baby formula and Mountain Dew. They'd shake it up and then they would feed Carmody this. It was so regular and so bad, like such a normal part of her diet, that by the time she died, her teeth were so rotted out of her mouth that she barely had any teeth left at all, which I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to know that you don't mix baby formula with Mountain Dew. Also, like, why are you doing that? Like, are you trying to give her the calories?

Why not just mix it with water? It really doesn't make any sense to me. Also, not for nothing, but why are you trying to give a toddler so much sugar? I mean, it seems like everything opposite that you would want to do, which if you guys know maybe what the motive could be for doing this for like a Mountain Dew diet, please tell me. But here's the thing, this isn't even as bad as it gets because the kicker to all of this is that Carmody isn't the first child in the family to have suffered from a mixture of diabetes and neglect. See, according to one of Tamara's sons, Jerry, back in 2011, his four-year-old younger brother also went completely lethargic for over 36 hours, and his younger brother would only respond to sugar. So meanwhile, when Jerry was discovering all of this about his four-year-old younger brother,

Tamara, the mother, was passed out in the back bedroom. Jerry had to go back there and wake Tamara up and then force her to take his little brother to the hospital. He ended up also being in diabetic ketoacidosis, and he spent some time in a coma. Fortunately, he came out of the coma and he recovered, but even after he was discharged from the hospital, he didn't end up going to all of his follow-up appointments. Which, again, is just an illustration of, like, neglect, a pattern, something that was a regular occurrence, apparently, in this household. So all of this, this whole situation, came back to light after Carmody's death. But get this, Tamara told the judge, quote,

I thought I was taking care of her which how somebody can think that by feeding your toddler Mountain Dew and baby formula you're taking care of her is beyond my understanding but again if you know something I don't know please tell me but Carmody's father Christopher ended up also taking a plea deal and he's scheduled to be sentenced on June 11th for his charges it's just gross because you see that there was a clear pattern in the past and like again what the motive was I don't even know here but apparently it needs to be said so here's the PSA don't feed your kids Mountain Dew don't mix baby formula with Mountain Dew. Now keeping it in the spirit of family we're gonna shift gears now to an elderly mom abuse case.

We often say how children and elderly people are the most vulnerable victims out there, two of the, you know, pockets of victims that are the most vulnerable due to their ages, and this one kind of has me outraged given, not the sentencing, but given the circumstance. So let me give you some backstory and listen up. Last week, a 68-year-old woman named Elizabeth Benavides was arrested in Florida. This was after she was accused of abusing her 96-year-old mother. This all started back when a tenant in the back half of the house had called this woman's grandson with some concerns about how she was being taken care of. Then, once hearing these concerns, the grandson contacted the police.

Well, when the police got to the house, they found this 96-year-old woman inside the home with multiple bruises all over her body. Now, at first, she wouldn't tell them exactly what had happened, and she said that she had slipped or she had fallen. However, all of that was very quickly disproven. And the tenant in the back half of the house also told the police that the woman was actually being hit by Elizabeth. She allegedly even had a cell phone recording where this woman admitted that her daughter Elizabeth had hit her. The tenant told the police that on multiple occasions, she also is the one who had to feed the woman and change the woman's diapers because her own daughter Elizabeth wasn't taking care of those things. But what really apparently was the tipping point for this tenant and for her husband was the fact that Elizabeth

had allegedly been giving her mother colazepam every four hours. Now, if you're not familiar with that medication, it is a very, very strong sedative, and when the tenant noticed this and was alerted to this, she ended up checking with the woman's nurse, but the nurse said that she should only be taking it once per day, certainly not every four hours. I mean, that is definitely over the top and way too heavy of a dose. So because of this, it prompted her to call the woman's grandson, who she then expressed those concerns to, who then we know reached out to the police. So when the police reached out to

Elizabeth, she denied all of these allegations. She said that the bruises were from when her mom fell two weeks prior. She said she couldn't remember what medications her mother took. I mean, just deny, deny, deny. Ultimately, though, Elizabeth was charged with neglect of an elderly disabled adult causing bodily harm or disfigurement. But here's the thing. She ended up making a $15,000 bond, and that's what really enrages me because I truly feel like if it was a child in this case and not an elderly person, that the bond would have been set much higher. How she's able to just post $1,500 and then walk out is crazy to me. I could be wrong. I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a judge. I just think that this isn't the bond amount we would see if it was a child involved, but I don't know. What do

you think? I just feel like we know that those are the two categories of victims that are the most vulnerable, so you would think that they should be treated equally and something here just doesn't really feel right to me anyway speaking of not feeling right we're going to get into a case that honestly just grosses me out and makes me want to vomit everywhere every time i am reading about it i've also had to record this once and my mic was off and i almost vomited when i recorded it the first time but this week a man known as the bad breath rapist was caught after 16 years on the run you heard that right the bad breath rapist which how humiliating for this guy right but here's the deal so back in 2005 in Massachusetts a guy named Toon Kit Lee apparently had kidnapped and raped a female co-worker of his at Knife Point.

Then two years later, in 2007, he ended up being convicted of the charges. They used DNA and the victim's description of, quote, bad breath to help solve this case, and that's what really gave him the name the Bad Breath Rapist, which I was saying earlier when I was talking about this case and researching it and reading it, I think it's kind of crazy because we know a lot of the time that rapists and murderers especially love to kind of relish in their crimes, right? They love being on the run. They love seeing how the public reacts. They'll sometimes go to the vigils. They'll insert themselves in the investigation. So could you imagine that this victim of his goes to the police and says here's his the dna he left on me and the description i can give of you is like he has very bad breath

then the next morning he like grabs the paper he's grabbing the new york times or whatever it is and he sees on the front page the bad breath rapist we're looking for clues and like realizing that that's what you've been dubbed i mean it just makes me laugh and kind of feel like karma's a bitch for this guy, but anyways, at least it was a good enough descriptor that they used part of that description to help solve this case. Now, by the time that sentencing came around, he apparently already fled Massachusetts, and he went on to just completely start a whole new life for himself, and over the past 16 years, the authorities have spent hundreds of hours trying to find him. They've offered rewards. They even went as far as putting the case on that show,

America's Most Wanted. But they couldn't find him. Almost two decades went by. It wasn't until this past year that they started to figure out where he was. So they focused surveillance on a home in Diablo, California, and then they pulled him over this week after he left the house with a woman. At first, he gave a false name, but then he eventually him over this week after he left the house with a woman. At first, he gave a false name, but then he eventually fessed up to who he actually was. Now, the woman who was with him, who he had been with for the last 15 years, she had absolutely no idea about his past, nor that he was on the run, which, can you imagine being in that car when he's pulled over, when you're not only realizing this guy you've been with over a decade now is a complete stranger and had lived a completely different life

but also you're realizing that he was dubbed the bad breath rapist did he still have bad breath was it halitosis was it something else i don't know but poor woman for a multitude of reasons once it now kind of going back to the whole family thing, we're going to talk about a man who burned a woman over cheating. And she wasn't the one that cheated. So get this, on April 1st, a woman named Brianna Winston was reported as missing in Georgia. Brianna's family last heard from her back in mid-March, and they went to the police after learning that her boyfriend, Mikhail Edwards, who also is the father of her four-year-old daughter, he had cleaned out all of her things out of the apartment, the apartment smelled like bleach, and Brianna also had failed to report to work on March 17th and every day afterward. So clearly there were some red flags from the get-go. Not only had she not been heard from or

seen since March 17th, but then her things at her apartment were cleaned out. It reeked of bleach. I mean, things weren't looking good. Luckily, their four-year-old daughter that they shared together had been being taken care of by McHale's family, but still, they needed to find out what happened to Brianna. So as the investigators began to look into things, they became kind of a lot more confusing than anybody really ever expected. See, Brianna and McHale definitely had a rocky relationship. They had their ups and downs, but in October of 2023, a protective order was put into place. However, for whatever reason, it seems like they were back together by this March. And here's where it gets interesting, because as it turns out, not only was Mikhail dating Brianna, but at the time that they got back together in March, he also had a new wife, a new wife named Brianna Phillip Edwards, and he married her just this last January. A whole secret life, which it's already confusing enough because the two women basically have the same name, Brianna and Brianna, so we are going to just be calling

the second one his wife to avoid any confusion. But anyways, it was clear that Brianna hadn't just gone missing, given all of the red flags, and it was clear that something had to have happened to her, right? And by April 8th, McHale was arrested. He was arrested for aggravated stalking, and then his new wife was also arrested not too long after, and she was arrested on a felony charge of making false statements after she lied to the police in an interview. They became persons of interest pretty quick, and the wife actually worked for the police department, and as things heated up, the police department announced that they'd be launching an internal investigation, and right when they did that, she resigned almost immediately, which is pretty suspicious. So they were starting to piece together what had happened, but they still needed to figure

out what exactly happened. Eventually, an informant came forward to the police at the beginning of May, and this informant was given an immunity deal if they gave this information. The informant said that on the morning of March 17th, McHale went over to Brianna's house, and this is when she ended up confronting him about a secret marriage, the one that had taken place just a couple months earlier in January. But apparently, her confronting him about this enraged him. Her confronting him about his own cheating, his own secret wife, enraged him. Her confronting him about his own cheating, his own secret wife enraged him. So they got into an argument, a heated one, and he allegedly choked her to death before then stuffing her body into a suitcase. The informant also told the police that

McHale then drove to the informant's house, they put her body into a burn barrel, they put accelerant on it, and then they burned her body for hours. After that, they used a shovel to break down her bones, and then they used McHale's wife's car to spread the remains all along Interstate 40. They also went to a cemetery that was behind a church over 400 miles away from where she lived, and they scattered some of the remains there. Now get this, while McHale was in jail on the aggravated stalking charge, he apparently called his wife to help him destroy some of the evidence. And we love to see this because we love to see when criminals are truly morons and they help solve the case for the police because as we all know, jail phone calls are

recorded. So these calls led to his mom and brother both being arrested and charged after they allegedly helped burn a pair of shoes and a pair of gloves for Mikhail. Now we don't know exactly who the informant is, but the police have said that McHale looped in his whole family on it, so I think that it is safe to assume that it's probably family to some degree, but who exactly? We're not entirely sure. McHale ended up being charged with multiple charges, including the aggravated stalking charge, tampering with evidence, conspiracy to commit crime, concealing death, aggravated assault, felony murder, and malice murder. And he's being held without bond. His wife has also been charged with conspiracy to commit a crime, as well as party to

commission of a crime, and his mother and brother were also both charged with conspiracy charges. So keeping it in the family, a whole new definition of it, which is going to kind of be the theme for the next few cases that we go through because it's wild. While you have one where a family is helping out, helping conceal the crime, helping cover up for a family member and their crime, now we're shifting gears to where the crime happened within the family, where he turned family member. So a Minnesota man named Jack Ball is currently being held in jail on a $1 million bond with conditions or a $2 million bond without conditions. This is after he allegedly dismembered his pregnant sister, Bethany. Yes, guys, his

pregnant sister dismembered her. So last Thursday, Bethany had gone over to her brother's house for dinner, thinking it was just going to be like a normal weekday dinner with family. After she didn't come home though and wasn't answering, her mom got worried, so she went over to Jack's house. And when her mom got there, she said that Jack, quote, tore out of the house. Then when she went inside, there was blood absolutely everywhere. She called 911 saying that she thought that her daughter might have been killed due to the crime scene, due to the amount of blood, due to everything she was seeing. And when the police got there, there was blood everywhere. There was a pool of blood on the kitchen floor, blood on the kitchen cabinets, under the sink, I mean, you name it. They also

found a saw, a hatchet, and knives, all scattered throughout the house, and they found dismembered body parts. A few minutes later, a call came in from a neighbor who said it looked like a man had set a body part on her front step, and she had seen it all happen on her ring doorbell. And sure enough, when the police went to the house, there was in fact a body part on the step. So not long after that, they found Jack by a shed. He had blood all over him, and he also had a knife wound, which appeared to all be self-inflicted. It was across his throat, so it looked like he had tried to kill himself. And as they continued to search, they found more body parts that belonged to Bethany, all around the local area. When they went and searched Jack's house, they found what could indicate what the motive was.

They found his journals, and in them he had written that he was angry with his sister and angry that she was pregnant because quote she was no longer innocent. She was about 17 to 18 weeks along and this was her first baby. So Jack was charged with two counts of murder, one for the baby and one for Bethany. What the details are regarding the exact exact motive we aren't sure. I would guess and this is is just my opinion guys, just a theory, that maybe it has something to do with religion. If he's saying that she was no longer innocent, maybe because she isn't married and she was having the baby out of wedlock. I don't know, but enough to make you not only snap on your own sister, kill her while she's pregnant, then dismember her body. I mean, clearly something is not right here. So we'll see what else comes out of it. Now let's talk about families that just are not right in the head.

And the families that, like, think that they're untouchable, they think they're the freaking mother-effing Sopranos. It's absolutely wild. Because some very interesting updates to the Adelson case happened recently. Now if you guys remember, Charlie Adelson was convicted in the murder of his brother-in-law dan markell who is a very renowned and well-respected law professor in florida prosecutors believed that he had organized a hit to be carried out on dan and he asked his on and off again girlfriend katie if she knew some people and as it turns out she did so then two men sigfredo and luis drove from miami up to tallahe, and they shot Dan right in his driveway.

Now, the reason that Charlie coordinated this whole thing, apparently, was because he allegedly did it to help his sister, Wendy. His sister, Wendy Adelson, was having issues with Dan. They were having issues over custody, over a bunch of different things, because apparently their divorce was just very, very nasty. And for a long time, I mean, nobody in the community knew who could have done this. However, as it all went down, and as. And for a long time, I mean, nobody in the community knew who could have done this. However, as it all went down and as it was unfolding, behind the scenes, multiple law enforcement agencies, including the FBI, I mean, they were busy uncovering everything.

It eventually led to a mass arrest, and they arrested Katie, Sigfrido, Luis, then Charlie. There were multiple wiretaps involved. There was an FBI sting. I mean, it truly was wild so if you aren't familiar with this case definitely listen to the deep dive which again it'll all be in the show notes but here's why the case also went so so viral and kind of took the media by storm the Adelson's are a very affluent family in the Miami area so it really made everybody kind of

pique their interest and be more intrigued with what was going on. Some news outlets have even described Charlie as, quote, a Ferrari-owning periodonist from South Florida. This is because Charlie followed in his father's footsteps and worked with him together at their practice, the Adelson Institute. Additionally, kind of just going to the affluent family dynamic, family tree, however you would describe it. Wendy is a lawyer. That's why she and Dan connected in the first place, because he's a law professor. And at the time, their parents lived in a penthouse in Miami. So now going back to Charlie for a minute, his trial was in the fall of 2023, and it was an extremely high-profile murder trial.

And good old Charlie even actually testified in his own defense, which like I said earlier, we love to see it. We really, really do. And when he took the stand, he said that the real story of what happened was way different than what the prosecutors were saying. He said that the gunmen, Sigfrido and Luis, they were part of the Latin Kings gang, and that the reason they shot Dan was so they could blackmail Charlie, so that they could make him pay them. It was all blackmail. He had nothing to do with it. Take a listen. And she's like, no. I'm like, who did this? Who's your friend that did this? And she's like, I don't want to say. I can't say. She started telling me, like, I'm so sorry. This is all my fault. I didn't know any of this was going to happen.

And I'm like, Katie, I'm not going to be part of this. I'm not going to be part of paying for a murder. This is insane. And she's like, look, if you don't pay in 48 hours, they will kill you. And I said, Katie, I feel like I'm getting extorted now. So like I said earlier, Charlie's defense, it just didn't bode well, and ultimately he was convicted. He was later sentenced to life in prison. And you might think that that's the end of the story here, but no, no, no, there is a lot more. Another reason that this case got so much media attention is because it was long suspected that Charlie's own mother, Donna Adelson, and possibly even his sister Wendy, the one he was trying to protect, were involved in this whole scheme.

Now, as far as Donna, the mother, is concerned, tons of evidence in Charlie's trial implicated her in at least knowing or even being the driver of this plan to begin with. I mean, she absolutely hated her son-in-law Dan, and unfortunately for her, she put all of that in writing, and there was just like loads and loads of evidence against her. And get this, shortly after Charlie was sentenced, this matriarch, Donna Adelson, she was arrested. She was arrested at Miami International Airport, and what she had with her was a one-way ticket to Vietnam, a country that does not have an extradition treaty with the U.S. And the investigators had caught wind of her plan to flee because, get this, Donna said herself, on recorded jail calls with Charlie after he was convicted, what her plan was. Again, why people are having these highly sensitive and incriminating conversations on recorded jail lines, it continues

to baffle me, like, how they don't understand, but again, we love to see it. Now, on these phone calls specifically, she said that she would either get her affairs in order and take some sleeping pills, or she would flee. And then she tried to flee, and they arrested her sorry ass at the airport. So now she's in jail in Florida with no bail, and she's awaiting trial, just like her son Charlie was. Except not anymore, according to this recent update. See, apparently Charlie Adelson was moved a few times for his own protection while he was in jail, but now the Florida department shows Charlie is being incarcerated in South Dakota.

This is because apparently the Latin Kings, that gang, allegedly greenlit a hit on him. So remember, this is the gang that he tried to say was responsible for Dan's murder, that they were trying to blackmail him. Well now they're pissed, obviously, and so they greenlit a hit on him. So remember, this is the gang that he tried to say was responsible for Dan's murder, that they were trying to blackmail him. Well, now they're pissed, obviously, and so they greenlit a hit on him. Or maybe there was truth and they're pissed that he was narking and ratting. Who really knows? But anyways, they moved him to South Dakota. And take a listen to this clip from Court TV, because I literally could not believe my ears when I first heard the details about this, or what was said about Wendy moving to Austin as well. Take a listen.

You know, he had a really risky defense without Daniel Rashbaum. He essentially said, for those who are not familiar with the case, that he was extorted by the infamous Latin Kings gang, and there's an honor code among the gang, and the consensus is that never happened. So they basically, their defense was to throw this notorious gang under the bus. And there are ramifications for that. And once Charlie was convicted and went to stay prison, according to my sources and all the reporting out there, he was green lighted, which in prison parlance means they put a hit out on him, that he would be killed inside the prison.

And this became an untenuous situation. He had been moved three different times within the state of Florida, and he was just convicted, by the way, this past November. So it's a lot of movement. And ultimately they said, hey, we've got to get this guy out of here for his own safety. And they sent him far away to South Dakota. And that's where he's sitting in a state prison right now. Joel, we knew you would know. When are we going to see Wendy arrested?

Or aren't we? Your thoughts on that, please, Joel. So I've asked just about everyone who's closely connected to this. And the overwhelming consensus is everyone thinks she's in on it. In fact, almost everybody thinks she helped manipulate this entire situation. But she was also is a lawyer, was also incredibly smart and kind of covering her tracks. And it is believed that she would be the hardest to prosecute. Nevertheless, Georgia Kappelman, who's the lead prosecutor in this case, has a distinct animus for Wendy Adelson. She is not a fan of Wendy Adelson. And whether you like somebody or not, she'd never play into a prosecution necessarily. But we all know

that there's kind of a competitive edge and competitive factor. And the belief is split 50-50 really about whether she will be prosecuted. But from a sort of a revenge standpoint, in order to pay for this crime, people want to see her tried for this case. And in my gut, I feel like she will be the next domino to maybe not fall, but definitely be attacked by the prosecution. It's just going to be a matter of time. They've been very systematic here and going after, you know, the hit men first, the middle woman in this case, and then ultimately Charlie Adelson. And next, of course, Don in the fall. But I think we do see Wendy Adelson prosecuted here. And we're getting word that Wendy is headed to Texas, that she's out of here.

She's going to Austin. Apparently, she has some family down in Austin, Texas. But people who are slightly more cynical think that she is starting to prepare to maybe slip through the southern border. We know that Donna, right after Charlie's conviction, was caught trying to board a plane to Dubai to ultimately get to Vietnam, and that's where she was arrested. It's interesting. This family just gets more and more complex as time goes on. It's truly my opinion that it's only a matter of time before Wendy gets arrested, but I'm interested to know what you guys think. Aside from that, in the Chad Daybell trial, we do have a little bit of an update.

Instructions were given to the jury and closing arguments did happen on Wednesday. So the jury is officially in deliberation. And I have no doubt in my mind that Chad is gonna be found guilty, but I don't know. I could be wrong. I have seen crazier things happen. Cough, cough, Casey Anthony, but I am hoping that he is found guilty.

He is up for the death penalty. I don't think he is going to get the death penalty. I'd be very, very surprised just because Lori didn't get the death penalty, and I don't think they would give it to Chad, but I mean, who's to say? I guess we'll see. But other than that, I will be giving you guys the Friday episode recap with not only the Chad Daybell trial update, but also the Karen Reed trial update. So make sure to check back and listen to that. And what else? What else? I will see you at CrimeCon, guys. I'll be back on the mic with you first thing Monday morning. Also, as a heads up, if you didn't listen to the episode that released on Monday of this week, it's all about the 7M TikTok cult. And Netflix just came

out with a mini docuseries on this cult. And you know that when Netflix had to to cover it I had to do like a mega deep dive because they always just like do the surface information they don't really get in the nitty-gritty and we found out so much stuff and as always do your own research but I will say my opinion just my opinion my own I definitely definitely think this is a cult I think that Robert Shin is a disgusting cult leader you'll understand why when we go through everything it's pretty unnerving so if you haven't listened to that yet this case has gone like crazy viral the full deep dive was released on Monday on here so listen to that and I will for sure be keeping you guys updated aside from that I'll be back on the mic with you very very soon not only with the trial recaps but also our ad free bonus episode that

we put out on Fridays you can get access to that either through Patreon or on the Apple podcast app and that's just if you need a little more true crime fix no ads but another deep dive on a single story and that's every single Friday but other than that I will be back I've said other than that like 500 times right but other than that I will be back on the mic with you first thing Monday with a brand new case all right guys thanks so much for tuning into today's episode until the next one do all the things be nice don't kill people stay safe watch your back be kind all the things all right thanks guys and I will talk with you soon bye Thank you.