Serialously with Annie Elise - 315: 11-Year-Old Gives Birth in Oklahoma House of Horrors, Kohberger Loses His Sh*T & Emmanuel Haro News

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, true crime besties, welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialistly. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialessly, with me. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial-lously with me. your host, Annie Elise. I hope you guys are having a great week so far. It has been kind of one that's going by fast. Schools back in session, at least here in my neck of the woods. We obviously had Monday off. So it's kind of a lot going on. And there's also a lot happening in the true crime world. Of course, we always know, unfortunately, new cases are starting to arise. But there have been so many updates over the last week that I actually kind of thought that this episode would just end up being a full update episode. I'm not going to do that. Don't worry. But there are just so many

Starting point is 00:01:04 things that we need to go over. And a lot of you last week when I met you on tour had so many questions about these cases too. So I feel like maybe it's worth, I don't know, I don't know if I'm going to circle back to all of them. I'll like, maybe I'll link some in the show notes, but I don't know. I'm getting ahead of myself. So first and foremost, thank you to everybody who came out on the last leg of the tour. We hit Nashville, Atlanta, North Carolina. This next leg. Well, first, I'm leaving right now after this to CrimeCon for this weekend. It's in Denver. And then after that, we're going to Dallas, Houston, Austin, and Phoenix, which Phoenix is sold out. I think maybe Dallas is sold out. I'm not entirely sure. But yeah, so there's still some tickets left. If you guys are in the Texas area and you want to come out, you see behind me in my bookshelf now, so many of you that I've met have been, like, amazing and brought like little goodies, little things from your home. hometown. And I mentioned it on a couple episodes again. We're going to make this bookshelf like the Andy Cohen, watch what happens live clubhouse where it's like all the stuff from you guys.

Starting point is 00:02:08 So that way, I don't know, it just feels more like, you know, like community, like you're with me in the studio and we're all together. So yeah, looking forward to the Texas leg and looking forward to meeting so many of you. Now, before we get into some of these new cases, let's start with some updates. and I want to start with the Travis Decker update. That name may sound familiar. It may not. Let me give you a little bit of a backstory. But it's been about three months since this case first broke.

Starting point is 00:02:35 And if you remember, Travis Decker went on the run after allegedly, not so allegedly, I guess, but he hasn't been convicted, murdering his three daughters. And he's been on the run ever since. And that's since June 2nd, to be exact. So almost three months with no sign of him whatsoever. And right when he first kind of, you know, took off and went on the run, I think there were reported sightings of him in Idaho. Maybe there was one in Washington, but nobody has actually laid eyes on him. And he's very, like, well-trained.

Starting point is 00:03:07 I think he can, I think he's ex-military. I'd have to go back and see exactly what, but definitely can survive on his own and be a survivalist of sorts in the woods and things like that. So there was a lot of talk about it when it first went down. Obviously, people were looking for answers. why did he kill his three daughters? Why is he on the run? Like what really happened here? But then things kind of just went silent. Unfortunately, like they do a lot of the times, when people are looking for someone and there's no news and no leads, sometimes I don't want to say it gets forgotten, but it just other things come up and people do, I guess, lose sight of it. So in any event,

Starting point is 00:03:44 there has now been an update because he has been on the run for about three months. And on August 25th and 26th, the FBI ended up conducting a two-day grid search that covered over 240 acres. Now, this grid search area was the Rock Island Campground that is right outside of Levensworth, Washington, and the lead agent of the FBI in Seattle said that the purpose of this search was to, quote, locate Travis Decker, discover signs of his whereabouts, or find any other evidence of the murder of his three daughters. And during this grid search, I will say, kind of sparked this whole new, I don't want to say new interest, but like this whole new conversation about Travis Decker again, is that bones were found during this search. But I will say

Starting point is 00:04:31 it was inconclusive at the time if these bones belonged to animals or humans. So they ended up being sent off to the Central Washington University Anthropology Department to confirm what type of bones they are, and as of this recording, we're still awaiting that information. The FBI also said that they had recovered several items in that grid search that are going to be examined to determine if they are related to the investigation. So while it's not a ton of news or maybe the news that a lot of us would have hoped of finding him, figuring out what really happened here, what the events that led up to this were, it does seem like there is still forward movement in the case, which I think is what everybody always wants, and we'll see what those

Starting point is 00:05:15 items are, too, that were recovered. A lot of the speculation in the beginning when this first went down was that after he took the lives of his three daughters, that he would go off the grid and then take his own life, very reminiscent of Brian Laundry in a way. However, that obviously hasn't been confirmed because no remains have been found that belong to him. And if you're not super familiar with this case, I try to just, again, skim over, give you like a very brief backstory, but we will link where we talked about this more in depth in, I don't think we did a dedicated episode. I think it was a headline highlights, but we'll find the episode and I'll link it in the show notes. Now, moving over into other updates, there have been some updates in the

Starting point is 00:05:56 Immanuel Haro case. I'm sure you are very familiar with this case by now. He is the seven-month-old little boy who was reported as being kidnapped by his two parents. That story very quickly fell apart. I think first and foremost it fell apart the second they did an on-camera interview because the public just basically eviscerated them and knew that they were lying. But then they officially were arrested with suspicion of murder and then they ended up being charged with murder and with false reporting. Now, while Emanuel's remains have not been found yet, it has been said in press conferences that there is a level of cooperation from either one or both of the parents that did lead them out to a search a couple of weeks ago off the 60 freeway in California. But unfortunately, they did not find his remains. But the update that I want to talk to you about with that isn't necessarily about him being found, although I am hopeful that that happens very quickly. But it's rather more from the legal side of things.

Starting point is 00:06:53 Because as these two monsters are now getting representation in court, two of the attorneys who are defending them also defended the Turpins, David and Louise Turpin. And that name may sound familiar to you. And this is all kind of happening in the same location, too. like the Inland Empire in California down south. And the Turpins went to trial back in 2019. And a little bit of backstory of that, you may know them from, most notably from their daughter Jordan, Turpin, who has been incredibly outspoken in the last few years. She's the one who essentially rescued all of her siblings because she broke out of the house

Starting point is 00:07:28 and called 911. But it was often referred to as the case of the original House of Horrors, where these disgusting, despicable monster parents kept these kids, so many of them, all of them like shackled, chained to the bed, had a padlock on the refrigerator, wouldn't feed them, they didn't go to school. It was just awful. And I've done several deep dives into that case as well, especially because after all of these siblings were rescued, their foster family then started abusing them as well, which is so fucking twisted and sick. I, like, don't even get me started on that. But my point is, I get everybody's going to have representation, even the scum of the earth, like David and Louise, and sure enough, those same attorneys are now representing the horros, which I don't know what the expression is.

Starting point is 00:08:19 Birds of a feather, I don't know, Apple doesn't fall far. I don't know what the expression is. You know I'm not good with that, but it feels like that. So Allison Lowe, who previously represented David Turpin, is now representing Jake. And Jeff Moore, who previously represented Louise Turpin, is now representing Rebecca. Now through all of this, the one attorney who has spoken out during the Harrow case has been Jake's attorney, kind of that like, I don't know, like bootleg, you know, ambulance chasing casino looking kind of attorney. His name's Vincent. He's the one who also was like very adamant that Rebecca had to speak for herself or her own attorney had to speak for her. I think he's also the exact same attorney who represented Jake in the 2018 case against his daughter. So it's unclear if he also is going to be in the and representing Jake in some capacity, I don't know. It's also unclear if Rebecca has any sort of co-counsel alongside Jeff Moore, but more

Starting point is 00:09:15 to come on that. And I guess we always kind of say, especially like, for example, when Jose Baist, the guy who represented Casey Anthony, when he represents people, everybody's like, he's such a scumbag. He's always representing these criminals. But it's like a defense attorney is always going to represent an alleged criminal to some degree. And so because this is all in close proximity to each other in the Inland Empire, too, I don't think it's that far of a stretch that these are the two people representing them.

Starting point is 00:09:42 It's just, it is weird with like the eerily similar circumstances, the child abuse allegations and everything that goes along with it. So again, for the Turpin Deep Dives, I will link those for you as well. Be warned, though, it is a horrific, horrific story. And it's one where I know they've covered it on Dateline in 2020 and all of those things, but the aftermath of even the rescue was so heartbreaking because of what these people, these foster parents then did to the kids all over again, almost like getting off on what they had gone through and making them relive it. It's so sick and twisted. Now, one more update from a recent case that we covered here on headline highlights. I believe it was last week that we talked about it, if not last week, the week prior, but it was about the husband who was seen on that ring camera footage dragging something out. of his front door. It was like wrapped in a sheet. It looked like a body. Then his estranged wife's remains were found in the national forest. And he ended up fleeing to Peru. Well, sure enough, he turned himself into Interpool, which we don't see that very often. So I guess like, I don't know, accolades for you for doing the right thing. But he turned himself into Interpool in Lima, Peru on the morning of

Starting point is 00:10:55 August 27th. And he's being held in preventative detention. The Los Angeles County Shore Sheriff's Department also said that they do expect it to take several months, but they will be extraditing him back to the United States. But with that current order in place, he will be held in Peruvian custody until he is extradited. And I don't know what's going on with the kids, though, because if you remember, he fled to Peru with the kids, then took off once the kids were, they were like intercepted. So I don't know what's going on, but the good news is he turned himself in. It looks as though, even if it's not for a few months, he will be extradited. We will get answers. We will figure out what the hell really happened here. But some of that ring camera

Starting point is 00:11:38 footage was like the more unnerving footage that I think I've seen in like all of my CCTV exposure and history. Because although it hasn't been proven that it was a body, it for sure looked like a body with like the shape, the lumps, the bumps, the size, the weight as he's dragging it. And again, I believe that was in last week. episode. So just wanted to give you some of those updates since those have been some cases that have been on our radar the last few weeks. And now I want to get into new cases, new revelations, new updates. And with that, I am so excited to bring back a fan favorite that so many of you have been blowing up my comment section about saying, oh my gosh, I like it so much better when

Starting point is 00:12:22 you have a co-host and you guys have such good energy. So here back on the pod is Amy. Hi. Hi. Welcome back. Thanks. How's it going? Great. How are you?

Starting point is 00:12:33 Good. It's been a long morning already. I know. I feel like we have a lot going on. I know. I feel like we've seen each other, but we haven't talked. Like, honestly. I feel like tour was yesterday, but also a lifetime ago.

Starting point is 00:12:45 No, I know. You know what feels like a lifetime ago? D.C. That show. Oh, my gosh. I know. It feels like a lifetime ago. That leg of the show.

Starting point is 00:12:55 Yeah. Well, now we're about to like go in a full whirlwind. We've got crime. Com today that is starting tomorrow in Denver, then we get back for two days, and then we fly out to Houston, Houston, Houston, then Austin, then Dallas, then Phoenix. Yes. Then how long are we back until we go back out? I think we're back for a few weeks.

Starting point is 00:13:19 Okay, that'll be good. But yeah, it's been a whirlwind. I know. We have a lot to catch up on. I know. It's been fun, though. Yeah, there's been a lot going on. Okay, so first I want to talk about this update with Brian Coburger and everything Idaho.

Starting point is 00:13:34 And Amy, I know you are very familiar with this case, first because it's everywhere, but also I can't shut up about it. And everyone on tour, that's the first thing they ask about. Literally. And you like to go off. We do a segment during the tour where it's Ask Annie Anything, which I always end up regretting at the end of every night because people will put their questions in this box. And look, I love you guys, okay? In the club, we all fam, but you guys ask some really personal questions and some really controversial questions, but without fail, every single time there's questions about

Starting point is 00:14:08 Koberger in there. And I can't help myself. I just go off the rails. I know. And it ends up being like 15 minutes. I'm like, okay, we got to move on to the next thing. But yeah. So there have been some updates with this.

Starting point is 00:14:20 So let me break it down. Now, this is something that happened a few months before. the Idaho four murders even happened. So rewind back to June 30th of 2022, which is almost five months before the quadruple murders. Brian Coburger, who was living in Pullman, Washington at the time, who, you know, we all know him by now, he checks into this local hotel, which is totally normal, right? Even sometimes in like my city where I live, I'll need to be in a hotel for one reason or another. I was in a hotel last weekend for a little, you know, staycation before the kids went back to school. No big deal. People book hotel rooms all the time. But then, according to

Starting point is 00:14:55 reports, Brian makes this like direct harsh beeline for the front desk and he flips out on the woman who's working the front desk. Why you may be asking, which that would be the question I would be asking. Well, it's because he thought that he was double charged for the room that he booked, which I get that. Getting double charged is like never okay and right. Although I will say this and Amy, you can probably attest to this. I am so scared of confrontation that I probably wouldn't go to the front desk. I am getting better. But like I wouldn't go to the front desk or maybe I'd call because like there's protection

Starting point is 00:15:32 of being in the phone and not face to face for some reason. But like I know you would go to the front desk 100%. But like whatever. So my point is he thought I think I'd fly down to the front desk. I mean, I feel like that's a pretty straightforward mistake. Yeah. You wouldn't necessarily, I guess, be a beeline, you'd just go to the front desk and be like, hey, it looks like I was double charged, not like marching down all like smoke coming out of your

Starting point is 00:15:52 ears. But apparently that's what he did. He got really, really upset. And we're talking, like, full on, sorry for any Karen's listening, but like, full on, Karen, let me speak to your manager, that type of meltdown. Mind you, the woman who was working at this front desk, she was still in training. She was still, like, figuring out the systems and the software. So the issue gets fixed.

Starting point is 00:16:13 She corrects it, like, no harm, no foul. Thanks for addressing it. Like, I'm happy to fix it for you, Mr. Coburger. And right when she fixed it, his whole demeanor changed. Suddenly he was nice guy again. He wasn't having this full-blown. customer service attitude voice and not only just like thanking her and being like oh my gosh thank you so much sorry i freaked out but like i appreciate you correcting the mistake instead

Starting point is 00:16:34 he starts flirting with her like trying to flirt with the receptionist that he just went ape shit on and freaked out on which that's kind of a red flag for me in and of itself the emotional switch up so fast i feel like going from aggression to then being charming it can be a little bit manipulative Is it kind of in line with him, like, maybe this is a reach, but, like, being kind of an in-cell. So it's like, girls are usually, like, not very fond of him or give him attention. And then this girl, like, fixed his problem and was, like, nice to him. So all of a sudden, I don't know. I mean, I was going to say, obviously, we know he always wants to be the smartest guy in the room.

Starting point is 00:17:14 He thinks he's the smartest guy in the room. So, like, if somebody made a mistake, I could see where he, like, is, you know, reaming them and yelling at them. But, yeah, that is an interesting take. Whereas then once she resolves the issue and fixes it, he's like, oh, my God, this woman, she's actually being nice to me from once she knows my name, like, because he's such a loser, nobody knows his name, just like Kaylee's sister said in the sentencing, like, no, you don't matter, you know. And so maybe that's an interesting take.

Starting point is 00:17:42 But here's the thing, it gets even weirder because the very next day, this same woman bumps into him in the hallway. And out of nowhere, he starts talking to her, not to charm her, not to fly, alert with her, not to ask her out on a date or to coffee, but starts talking to her about knives. Okay? Knives and knife sheaths. Okay, now I'm afraid. Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 00:18:05 Big red flag. And specifically, he starts talking about self-defense weapons and how he collects knives, which, hi, that is not small talk as you're passing the ice maker in the hallway at, like, the hotel, you know? I'm out of there. I'm out of there. Like, even if my friends started talking to me about that, I'd be like, get. get out of my face. Like, I don't, like, scram. I don't want anything to do with you. But if I was

Starting point is 00:18:28 an employee and this guy who just went off on me 24 hours ago, then tried to flirt with me, chatting me up about knives. Yeah, chatting me up about knives and knife sheets. I'd be like, get out, you know, like, I want to kick you up to the curb. When are you checking out? Yeah, exactly. It's just, yeah, it's weird guy stuff. And what really freaks me out about all of this, too, is just the context of it all. Because obviously, now we know, didn't happen back then, but months later, in hindsight, that knife, that knife sheath, that was going to be central in this quadruple murder investigation just a few months later. So that detail makes this whole interaction feel just strange and kind of chilling, almost a little ominous, because if you

Starting point is 00:19:12 remember too, and Amy, I don't know if I told you about this, but I know everybody listening remembers this if you've been following the case. There was a woman he met on Tinder as well, and they had talked about liking horror stories and we're going back and forth and then he had asked her what do you think the scariest way to die would be they started talking about knives he brought up a K-bar knife

Starting point is 00:19:32 which we know was the murder weapon so it's like he had knives on the brain for months leading up to these murders it wasn't just like that was the murder weapon of choice he was thinking about knives and interjecting them into conversation with females which I understand testing the waters and gauging reaction and like the shock factor if it is maybe someone you're dating talking

Starting point is 00:19:54 out these horror movies, it feels somewhat natural to have that as part of the conversation, not so alarming, but this hotel employee, I feel like there was no context. So why would he? Because he's a freak. You're right, though. Okay. I don't love horror movies, but I have had that conversation with probably more people than I can count and more times than I can count is like what is your biggest fear of like the way you're going to die mine is always burning or drowning even though they say drowning is the most peaceful but like burning i don't know why i said this on an instagram story over the summer but like and i'm not trying to make light of it at all but like i don't know if you're this way i feel i feel like i have superhuman strength sometimes to

Starting point is 00:20:36 where like in my mind i feel like if someone shot me in the shoulder or something i remember this I feel like I could like muscle through it. Is that crazy? Or like if I get hit by a car. I mean, your adrenaline, I feel like is pretty strong compared to even most people. So I could see yourself like rising from the dead. I definitely could see that. But I don't even know why I just brought that up because that has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

Starting point is 00:21:04 I guess let me backpedal. I guess my whole point was that where is this going. I don't know where this is going. I'm going off the rails again. No, because I've had those conversations where, oh, that's bringing it back, Annie. I've had those conversations where it's like you talk with your friends or people about, like, what your worst fear is or how, like, what the worst way to die would be. But I've never gone as far as being like, yeah, if I got shot by a Glock 22 with a hollow bullet, I don't know if that's real. I was just going to say, wow, I didn't know that.

Starting point is 00:21:37 I have no idea, like, that I could come through it, whereas he's like bringing up K-bar knives, all of a sudden. too specific. Yeah, and it's weird. And for anybody who thinks I'm a freak right now saying I can muscle through a gunshot, like I am a freak. But you know what? I will say this too before I move on. I have so many people reply to that story on my Instagram saying they felt the exact same way. I mean, mindset is everything. Whereas I'd lay down and just close my eyes. You're like, I'm calling it. I'm out. Where I'd, like you said, rise from the ashes and be like, you motherfucker. Like she's gone. Nope. Right here, slow-mo charging them, yeah, which it's like, obviously, we know that's not how it would play out. But, like, in my mind, I feel like I'm stronger than I probably am in real life. So, anyway, back to the hotel situation. It didn't lead to any legal trouble for Brian. There were no charges filed because, obviously, I mean, it's just uncomfortable chatter. It's nothing super serious.

Starting point is 00:22:32 But when you zoom out of this whole thing and start to look at the big picture, it is one of those, I don't know if you'd call it missed moments, maybe something like that. maybe like could this have been a warning sign if somebody had been made aware of how big of a freak this guy was would nobody would have been able to intervene and stop it but like it just gives you that pause because when you really stop and think about it there was this man this man brian specifically who was acting erratically switching emotions on a dime talking about knives to a complete stranger all in the same town where he would later will not be arrested but lived he was arrested obviously in Pennsylvania, but later be tied to murdering four college students with a knife. It is pretty chilling, especially given what we know now and the details of what he did just a few

Starting point is 00:23:17 months later, which I get it. I know hindsight is 2020, but I don't know. It doesn't make it any less eerie to me. It just kind of freaks me out. That is weird. It is weird. Now, there's another story I want to talk about that a lot of you guys have been in my DMs about and it's in a rural town which you know I hate saying that word because I don't know how it's weird it's so weird can you say it rural rural whoa did anyone else see that because I saw that up close and it was really weird your face a rural town okay don't back up you're already like two feet away from me okay so as I said a lot of you guys have been requesting this so you might have actually seen some headlines floating around about this next case, even if you aren't somebody who

Starting point is 00:24:07 specifically requested it. But the whole situation started back in December of 2021. And it's when a father and his three children vanish from New Zealand's North Island. Now recently, it seems like they're back in the headlines again, though, years later, because now they have allegedly been seen on CCTV footage breaking into a rural town store. Rural town store. Rural town store. Say it five times fast, Danny. So let me give you some comments. context. Thomas Phillips, Tom for short, has been on the run with his three kids, Jada, Maverick, and Ember since 2021, and this is after what appears to have been a custody dispute gone wrong. Tom reportedly had lost custody of the kids, and instead of complying with the court orders, he disappeared. Now I will say this, not trying to give him any props or credit. At least it wasn't a situation where he was, you know, denied custody and then decided to annihilate his entire family. Not that this makes it any better being on the run. It's a whole different kind of painful and a whole different kind of torture,

Starting point is 00:25:12 but like at least these kids are still alive. So he disappeared completely into like this rugged New Zealand bush all with like his kids in tow. And I don't mean they just went there to go camping or like get off the grid for a while. They've been off the grid for three years now. I know. No school, no medical care, no food. family visits? How is that even possible? I don't know. The only reason that we even know that they're still out there is because they do seem to randomly appear in situations like this one that I'm talking about now. So last week, on August 27th, new CCTV footage surfaced from that rural store, as I mentioned, in a town called P.O. P.O. P.O. in the Widomo district. And what this

Starting point is 00:25:54 footage shows is pretty strange, because there's two masked individuals believed to be Tom and one of his three children and they're caught breaking into this store at 2 a.m. They ride up to this store on like a quad bike, which is one of those like, you know, dirt, not dirt bike motorcycles, but like a quad four wheels. I guess that's kind of self-explanatory. Like Annie, why are you treating in the audience? Like they are dummies, like a quad bike. Okay. So they pull up on this quad bike and then they force their way in with what the police are saying is a grinder. Now, I don't know if that's like a pants. saw or you know what I thought a grinder was more of like a big machine you think they're bringing a big machine on no that's why when you said grinder that's what I was picturing let me see

Starting point is 00:26:42 I'm searching grinder on my phone and well yeah that's a different kind of grinder I'd be careful about that search oh great a grinder a machine used for grinding something oh thank you I could have told you that urban dictionary or whatever like let me see grinder tool well they're not going to bring a meat grinder to that's the only grinder that I know about okay no it is exactly exactly what I saw. You know what? I've got to give myself more credit, honestly. What is it? It's like a hand saw, and it has, like, a big circular, like, saw-type grinder. Oh, I've never seen my events. I'm going to show it to the peeps at home. Okay, so, yeah, so they break into the store with what's a grinder. They grab supplies,

Starting point is 00:27:18 and then they're in and out of there within 13 minutes. There was no violence. There were no weapons, just this, like, quiet, intentional theft inside this store. The two minutes of CCTV footage has a familiar feel. Police believe its fugitive. Tom Phillips out on a burglary. It's the early hours of Wednesday morning, they say Phillips has a child in tow. The second time, police believe, he's targeted the Pio Pio Cyoret.

Starting point is 00:27:43 We're confident that that's Tom Phillips in one of his children. Phillips and the child cover their faces, but spend some time looking towards the CTTB camera before heading back to their quad bike and grabbing a grinder, both of which detectors believe Phillips may have stolen. Sparks fly as the padlock is cut

Starting point is 00:28:01 and the pair air. enter. The super ed owner told three news today, they got into the chiller, but set off the alarm. They grabbed milk and fled on the quad bike. Now, while you can't see the faces of the people in the CCTV footage, police do believe that this confirms that Tom and the kids are still alive and still out there. But this time, it kind of raises a new red flag, because up until now, sightings have been sporadic, but mostly peaceful. Nothing like theft or breaking in or anything like that. And now some of these recent sightings have shown some signs of criminal behavior, even arguably criminal behavior that's escalating and now potentially children being used in these

Starting point is 00:28:40 crimes. Could it be, you know, that they're running out of resources, that they're getting desperate. And we know criminals, when they're feeling desperate and in these like boxed in situations, it never ends well. And this, sure enough, isn't the first time that Tom has been linked to criminal activity. See, back in September of 2023, he was also accused of participating in an armed bank robbery. He allegedly entered the bank with a weapon, a firearm to be exact, demanded money, and then escaped on a motorcycle. He's also connected to another attempted, but failed, store break-in in late 2023. So we're not just talking about a dad here who's like running from the courts and trying to be with his kids. We're talking

Starting point is 00:29:21 about a wanted fugitive, someone facing charges including aggravated robbery, aggravated wounding and possession of an illegal firearm, all while hiding his three children. And that's the thing I want to just kind of like hyper fixate on a moment here. They are kids. When they disappeared back in 2021, they were 9, 10, and 12 years old. How is he getting away with this if he's been seen and like in trouble? I think it's more of like they catch him on the CCTV footage places after it's too late. He's already fled at that point once they see the footage or once there's proof of the break in. But it does beg the question of like, how hard could it be? find him with three kids. I don't know. And I mean, I begs the question if somebody's been helping him live off the grid for this long. Maybe now because he's desperate and breaking into these stores, maybe that person is no longer helping him or maybe they had a falling out. And so he's resorting to things like bank robbery and store theft. I don't really know. But the biggest piece in all of this and the one aspect that the police are most concerned about is of course the well-being of the kids, right? Jada, Maverick, and Ember haven't had access to education.

Starting point is 00:30:26 to health care. They're most likely being raised in complete isolation off the grid too, which you know, that's really tough. And at least one of the children also has asthma, which raises serious questions about their safety if they're like out there in the elements and in the wilderness. So police and child welfare services say that their top priority is getting the kids back home safe. And the family members, everybody who's still back at home, they have begged for Tom to bring these kids back. Just a few weeks ago before this incident, Tom's sister, even went on this TV show in New Zealand called Patty Gower has issues

Starting point is 00:31:00 and she did this in an attempt to plead with Tom to come back hoping that he would see it which I just can't imagine what that feels like watching these clips on the news knowing that your missing family members are out there, they're alive but you have no way to reach them

Starting point is 00:31:16 you have no way to reunite with them why are you talking now after being quiet for four years in the hope that just maybe he's going to see this and maybe he's going to get to see that he can come home and that we are here for him

Starting point is 00:31:40 and it might just be okay. Your mum has wanted you to do this. Yep. And she's got a note that she wants you to read to Tom. so these words are from from a mother's heart just to her son yeah

Starting point is 00:32:11 Tom I feel really sad that you thought you had to do this not considering how much we love you and can support you it hurts every time I see photos of the children and of you and see some of your stuff that is still here thinking what could have been if you had not gone away. Jada, Maverick and Ember. I love you so much and really miss being part of your lives. Every day I wake up and hope that

Starting point is 00:32:55 today will be the day that you will come home. So currently there is an $80,000 reward for any information that leads to Tom's arrest or the safe recovery of his children. He is believed to be hiding somewhere in that Weidamo district, and so, I mean, I guess that would be the place to look. They think he possibly has help from others as well, though it has not been confirmed. But the longer that this goes on, obviously, the more dangerous that it becomes right, not just legally for Tom, but the physical and the mental well-being of the kids.

Starting point is 00:33:28 This has now moved far beyond just a custody battle or a custody dispute. And it's no longer just a missing person's case. Like, this is getting dangerous. So I'll be following this case very closely as it continues. But what we cover today is kind of barely scratching the surface. I just had so many requests in my DM. So I wanted at least I get you guys the update. So for those listening, let me know if you do want to see a deep dive on this case because

Starting point is 00:33:53 there is so much that has happened here with the disappearances, the reappearances, the thefts, the assaults. I mean, it's kind of all over the place. So definitely let me know if you want that deep dive. And like I say, I like to consider myself a podcaster of the people. So if you want the deep dive, I am here to get it to you. I'm like about the divorce and where the mom and rest of the family is and how they haven't been able to locate him. Totally. Yeah. We can do the deep dive. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Okay, well, now I'm going to take a break for a second because my voice is getting hoarse from talking so much and I need to shut up for a minute.

Starting point is 00:34:29 So why don't you take away this next one? Yeah. Give me a churn. Give me a churn. Okay, well, this next case is coming out of Newport, Ritchie, Florida, and it's the case of Chuan Ying, huh, a 50-year-old woman who allegedly, and I say allegedly, but it's pretty much confirmed. The details are solid. She poured acid on her sleeping husband's body. Yeah, it's just as horrific as it sounds.

Starting point is 00:34:55 She even barricaded the body in the bedroom after she poured the acid on his body. So that he, like, what, couldn't escape? I guess, yeah. Wow. I know. So on August 21st in Newport Ritchie, police were called to a home on slippery rock drive, responding to a 911 call from a woman who was Chuan Yang herself. She had told the 911 dispatcher that she had hurt her husband using sulfuric acid.

Starting point is 00:35:19 Now, when they arrived, they found her standing outside of the, the house. She told them she had poured acid onto her husband while he was asleep and then brought them into the house where they could hear Robert screaming in pain. Robert was her husband. So he was still alive when the police got there? Yes. So basically not only did she carry out the attack, but then she trapped him in the room afterwards knowing full well what kind of agony he was in. Inside the new port Ritchie Holmes still taped off with a biohazard warning and an orange sticker deeming it unsafe. Detective say Sean Ying, he poured sulfuric acid on her husband, Robert Hayden, while he slept. He was suffering burns over most of his body, chemical burns.

Starting point is 00:36:00 Investigators say he told 911 operators she poured it on Hayden to hurt him and that she tried to kill him several times. Well, sure enough, when officers forced their way into the room, they found Robert Hayden, her 65-year-old husband, in complete agony covered in chemical burns. He was rushed to Tampa General Hospital with life-threatening injuries, and for a few days it looked like he might survive. But then after a few days, just three days after the attack, sadly he died from the injuries. Oh my gosh. That is my fear. Being burned, I always thought fire. But even that, like, your skin melting off of you.

Starting point is 00:36:36 Well, if you're wondering what the motive could be... Cheating. Well, we see this in a lot of cases divorce. But here's what's crazy. So, Chuan Ying and... Robert had been married for only about a year. Wow. I know.

Starting point is 00:36:51 I was surprised when I saw that, too. They tied the knot in August 2024, so just a year before, but things had clearly soured. Court records show that Robert had filed for divorce in March, about five months prior to this attack. So even way earlier on in the marriage. So being married for five or six months. Yep.

Starting point is 00:37:08 And had later filed an emergency motion for exclusive use and possession of their house. Their divorce proceedings were ongoing, and they had a hearing set for August 22nd, which was the day after this happened. So that's, she didn't want to go to the hearing. So timing was of the essence. She probably thought everything was getting ripped away from her, her house, any financial stability. And like, yeah, I didn't want to go to this hearing and was just enraged. So yeah, I was pretty clear there was a lot of tension and turmoil in the relationship, even possible ongoing conflict. And this wasn't just this spontaneous argument gone wrong. Because in fact, in the few days when Robert was still alive in the hospital, he told police that

Starting point is 00:37:46 Chuan Ying had tried to kill him before, multiple times, in fact, which is wild. So maybe, I mean, maybe, I don't know. Well, obviously, maybe you'll tell me, you'll be like, shut up. I'll tell you the answer. But, like, if he had tried to get divorced so quickly in the marriage, maybe, like, she wasn't who he thought she was. And she was kind of, like, chaotic from the start. And she, like, moved into his house and everything.

Starting point is 00:38:07 And he's like, oh, my gosh, she was this person, get out. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, geez. Okay. Police had said they'd been at the house multiple times for domestic violence calls. And granted, we don't know the circumstances of those. Obviously, those were red flags.

Starting point is 00:38:20 And like we were saying, probably he saw these red flags coming, wanted to get out. And then now upon this hearing, she took a very extreme approach. And what's even more chilling, according to the police report, Chuan Ying had admitted that she had intended to kill him. That was the goal of pouring this acid on his. So it wasn't just an act of rage. It was actually like an execution plan. So, but I mean, I guess. this is a stupid thing to say again.

Starting point is 00:38:47 But like. Why that approach? Exactly. I have no idea. And look, because to me, I'm like, is that a guarantee?

Starting point is 00:38:54 And I know that sounds terrible, but. I just Googled like what is sulfuric acid used for? And it says it's used for primarily for fertilizer production. So. And I feel like you're going to get caught. A hundred percent. I mean.

Starting point is 00:39:10 I mean, if your goal was to kill him, yeah. Maybe she was just like scrambling and she didn't own. a weapon and so she was like maybe the goal wasn't to not get caught it was to get caught because she's the one that called 911 that's true and she just wanted him to suffer she didn't want to be quick if i can't have him no one can i don't like any of this that's scary it's so scary well she was originally arrested on aggravated battery charges but after robert passed away those charges were

Starting point is 00:39:35 upgraded to first degree murder and as of right now chuan ying is sitting in jail with no bond and prosecutors are treating this as premeditated, intentional, and incredibly violent, which obviously it was. Yeah. And it's probably likely that she's going to spend her the rest of her life in prison. But it seems like that's not even going to phase her. Like, she wanted this. Well, yeah, I think she, yeah, I wonder how she's feeling now if this was, I mean, obviously it's not worth it. But all of this and now she's in jail. So what do we say? I'm going to give you the opportunity. What's the tagline? Just get a divorce. There we go. There we go. There we go.

Starting point is 00:40:08 Well, yeah. So, I mean, we'll keep it. on this one and I have a feeling like the full story will come out because obviously there's a backstory there were other police visits to the home and I'm sure I mean I don't know if we'll have an interview from her to see what she was thinking if she did this with the intention of like I'm going to get caught and I just want out or what the situation was wow but either way it was brutal and he died in like this crazy unimaginable way your worst nightmare literally my was nightmare. So obviously our thoughts are with his family. Yeah, absolutely. Nowadays, it seems like no matter what you're listening to, where you're turning on the TV, there's some sort

Starting point is 00:40:55 of mention about GLP ones. It seems like it's becoming pretty mainstream, right? So many people are using it. So many people have talked about not only the weight loss benefits, but other benefits, all different sort of things. And I think it has a lot of people curious. about gLP ones, that you don't know if they're right for you. You don't know if you can qualify for them if your insurance will cover them. But Roe makes it simple to find out and to get started because starting with GLP1s can feel overwhelming. But Roe helps you figure out if they're right for you. And like I said, they make it very easy to start. With Roe, whether you're using insurance or paying cash, you can access FDA approved GLP ones at a very competitive price.

Starting point is 00:41:34 Plus, with insurance, GLP ones could cost you as little as $50. a month. Half of covered patients have a $50 a month copay or less for medication, plus a $145 monthly Roe membership fee. The deductible cost may apply and final costs vary by insurance. But Roe offers a suite of GLP1s that are clinically proven to help you lose weight and keep it off. And that's just the beginning. Roe members also have support throughout the process through regular check-ins and unlimited provider messaging. Plus, you can see if you're eligible for the GLP ones, all from the comfort of your own home. That means no waiting for an in-person doctor's appointment, no commute to the doctor's office, and no waiting rooms. So go to row.co-slash-A-E to see if you qualify. That's r-o.c-c-o-c-slash-A-E.

Starting point is 00:42:19 Go to row.com slash safety for blackbox warning and full safety information about GLP1 medications. Prescription required. Okay, now this next story, I first saw it pop up on, I can't remember if I saw it on my YouTube feed, on like my Yahoo feed, where I saw it pop up. And I feel like when I read it, I wasn't understanding the layers to it. And then I started getting the tags, the tags on TikTok, the tags on Instagram, all of you guys messaging me being like, what the hell is going on here? Have you seen this? And it's about an 11-year-old girl who gave birth to her stepfather's baby gets worse.

Starting point is 00:43:06 The parents and the grandparents ended up being arrested as being complicit in this whole thing. It's sick, sick, sick. Where was this? Sorry. I have so many questions. So I've got, I've received a lot. Like I said, I've received a lot of requests and I have covered a lot of very difficult and very heartbreaking cases on this channel, this podcast. But this one is especially disturbing to talk about and hear about.

Starting point is 00:43:34 And like I said, it's coming from Muskogee County, Oklahoma. So this child, 11 years old, a child having a child, which is just awful. And when you learn about what really happened behind closed doors, like I said, there were so many layers to it that I felt like I was getting it wrong. I felt like there's no way that I'm seeing and reading what I'm reading. And it just kept getting worse and worse. So just trigger warning for everyone. If you just ate, you're probably going to vomit it all up.

Starting point is 00:44:04 it's going to make you sick to your stomach. So this case started on August 16th, and it was when this 11-year-old little girl was brought to the hospital after she delivered the baby at home. There was no medical support, no doctors, nothing. Now, this little girl gave birth on her own in a home that the police also later described

Starting point is 00:44:23 as unsanitary, unfit, even dangerous. In fact, at the time, both of her parents alleged that they didn't even know that she was pregnant. They said they had absolutely no idea, which, get this, this girl hadn't been to any doctor, any doctor of any sort in over a year, meaning she obviously had no prenatal care as well, but like no medical care whatsoever. And how do you not know that your 11-year-old daughter is pregnant, which I will, I mean,

Starting point is 00:44:50 how do you not know that she's growing a human inside of her? But I will say this, when I start to tell you what this house was like and the conditions, it doesn't really surprise me that these parents may not have clocked certain things because it seems like they just didn't give a shit about anything, but also we'll get to them being arrested because I think they did clock it. So let's start with the father of this baby. Police confirmed through a DNA test that the father of this baby with this 11-year-old little girl was a 34-year-old man named Dustin Walker, the stepfather to this 11-year-old little girl. I know. And let me say this, the match was 99.9%. So there's no gray area. There's no room for interpretation or, you know,

Starting point is 00:45:33 margin of error or anything like that. And this wasn't some unknown situation. This wasn't like confusion. It was clear. This man who was supposed to protect this child was the one who got her pregnant. But what's worse is that the girl's mother and grandmother, Cherie and Michelle, knew what was going on allegedly. How? So prosecutors say that they either knew or at the very least should have known. But like I said, when they took this girl to the hospital, everyone was denying that she was pregnant, saying they had absolutely no idea. They were so shocked. They had no clue. But the grandmother, Michelle, also claimed that the girl had been telling everyone that the father of her baby was a 12-year-old little boy that she used to babysit. Which, let me just pause that for a moment. Even if she was saying that, you knew she was pregnant then, unless you're saying that she was just saying this once she got to the hospital, you know? An 11-year-old is babysitting a 12-year-old? right doesn't really the math doesn't math i guess yeah when you say that it just it's the whole

Starting point is 00:46:35 thing makes no sense we didn't know this was happening none of us how do you think your granddaughter got pregnant she keeps telling us that it was a little 12 year old way that I used to keep I babysat. She keeps telling her body what it was him. They got curious. That's all I know. Now here's where we talk about the home conditions, okay? There were six children in that home.

Starting point is 00:47:14 All ages starting at 2 through 11. And when I tell you, this is like a whole new house of horrors, it's awful. They were living in filth. There was no running water. There were animal feces on the floor. Some kids were found with no clothing at all. So it wasn't just this sexual abuse that was happening, arguably inside the home, but it was neglect all across the board. The house was almost just kind of like a ticking time bomb.

Starting point is 00:47:42 Like it was only a matter of time before they got caught for doing something or like, you know, they were exposed for what the conditions of this house were. And the children's grandmother lived right across the street. And apparently she knew about the conditions of the house. helped take care of the kids sometimes, too, because they had no running water in their own home. So she would help, which is like, be a good grandma, intervene and, like, figure it out, you know, like, there's six kids in this house. One as young as two years old, like, what are you even doing? But no matter what anyone said or did to try and get these kids help, nothing was ever done. And one neighbor in particular even said that she had called multiple times with concerns about the conditions of the house and with outright worry for the children. Like we all say, if you see something or know something, say something, and this neighbor did.

Starting point is 00:48:28 She called multiple times with concerns trying to raise the alarm on this. Oh, good for her. I know. This is getting to me. And I've talked. I said, they're not doing nothing. They're not helping them, kids, and I've called. While I spoke with Cheryl Adkins, I noticed this lady filming across the street, but I continued on with the interview.

Starting point is 00:48:49 They have no running water for the last two or three years. they have dogs in the house they have cats in the house six children when we got to the home there was some trash in the yard a broken window and a bungee cord holding the door locked

Starting point is 00:49:05 the oldest is 11 and everybody else is younger now going back to this 11 year old little girl just think about that in the months leading up to this birth just being all alone isolated not in like an environment where you feel supported or taken

Starting point is 00:49:22 care of or even clean. I mean, can not feeling well? No. Just the confusion of it all, the pain, the fear, everything that was happening to her body, how she even got to that point of being pregnant, not getting any help, like, kind of just surviving it. And while you're living with your stepdad. It's awful. Then when she finally gave birth, inside that disgusting house of horror's home, she was probably terrified in pain. And then just trying to wrap your mind around it, like, hell, I gave birth in a hospital that was very nice with an epidural. And like, that was still hard. Can you imagine? And I'm in my 30s. Could you imagine an 11 year old in that house of filth, no medication, no doctor, no parent to support you? Like, it is so sad. It is, I don't even,

Starting point is 00:50:10 there needs to be a new word. It is just so incredibly sad. I know. So then after she delivers the baby, they then bring her to the hospital. And sure enough, that's when the truth came out. Both Dustin and Cherie Walker were arrested as well as the grandmother Michelle, yep, and both of the parents are currently being held on a $100,000 bond each, and they're facing child neglect and sexual abuse charges. And the grandmother is also facing six counts of child neglect. Meanwhile, all six kids have been removed from the home and they've been placed into protective custody, which like, thank God. Yeah. But get this, Cherie, the mom, is pregnant with their seventh child and she's due very soon. I know. Can you imagine? I mean, obviously...

Starting point is 00:50:54 I don't know what she's thinking. Do you think that she knew that he was the father? I don't know. I need to get more. I need to dig into it a little deeper. Part of me feels like it's giving Madeline Soto vibes. And I know you're not as familiar with that case. A lot of the listeners are, you've actually heard me talk about it on tour a few times because of like Stefan Stern's statement that made my skin crawl. And it kind of gives me vibes like that where either she knew and was aware and did nothing to stop it or at the very least like the prosecutor say had an idea and should have known given the circumstances. So I don't know. I need to dive in a little bit more before I can like outright

Starting point is 00:51:33 be like, you knew every single thing that was happening and you were complicit and da-da-da-da-da. But like obviously they have arrested her and in what they believe is warranted. And it's just sad because now this baby obviously will be taken away from the parents. They're both in jail. all of these kids. It's not even like they can go to a grandmother who cares for them. The grandmother is neglected them too. I wonder who's caring for this baby. I know.

Starting point is 00:51:54 So they have it at hearing this week, so there will be more updates. And I'll do, I probably will end up doing a deep dive into this because it's like, what is really going on here? This is just so sick and twisted. And I wonder what Dustin's going to say about all of this. Like, obviously the DNA has now proven, you are the father, as like, Mori or Montel Williams would say. And so it's like, so what's your excuse if they try to have?

Starting point is 00:52:20 Well, no, no, no, I know. That was terrible. No, but like, I guess, yeah, what will he try to come up with as reasoning? Not that anything would excuse it. But like in the Madeline Soto case, for example, her mom said that Madeline only slept well when she slept next to Stefan in bed and stuff like that. And it's like, you're the mom, like figure out. So is he going to be like, she only would like cuddle with me?

Starting point is 00:52:45 me and she came on me. Like, I just wonder what they're going to try to spin with this because now it's proven. It's there. The DNA doesn't lie, you know, and so what else are we going to learn? And have any of the other children been subjected to this? Are any of the children, other children's children, that they were all in the house? Like, was this poor girl going to school during this time? It's all very unclear. How did nobody see what was going on? Probably not. I don't know. It's awful it's i know it is poor girl i can't even imagine i know it is beyond so that is what we have got this week for headline highlights i know that it was a lot i know

Starting point is 00:53:25 that it was a ton to digest but unfortunately there is no shortage of like scum of the earth human beings out there so i appreciate you guys all sticking with us amy and i will be at crime con this weekend if you are there too come by say hello and other than that we will see you when we get back out on the road and head to Texas. It's going to be a good time in Texas. I'm excited. All three. It's like what?

Starting point is 00:53:49 Dallas, Houston, Austin. I don't know how far apart all of those are. And then Phoenix. And then Phoenix, which Phoenix is going to be a really... That'll be a big one. Yeah, that's going to be a very big one. For reasons, I shall not say. All right, guys, thank you so much for tuning in.

Starting point is 00:54:03 I will be back on the mic with you on Monday with an all new deep dive into a case. Another one that you have been sliding all up in my DMs about. and finally breaking it down and covering it. So I will talk to you on Monday. But until then, be nice. Don't kill people. Don't join any cults. And say it with me.

Starting point is 00:54:22 Say it with me, Amy. Just get a divorce. Just get a divorce. All right. Bye, guys. Bye.

Serialously with Annie Elise - 315: 11-Year-Old Gives Birth in Oklahoma House of Horrors, Kohberger Loses His Sh*T & Emmanuel Haro News

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