Serialously with Annie Elise - 348: Rob Reiner Update, "ChatGPT Made Me Do It", and Daddy & Son Duo Murder Together

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, true crime besties, welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialistly. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialisly. with me, your host, Annie Elise. And today is Thursday. So first and foremost, that means we are like through halfway of the week. Thank God. But also it means it's headline highlights day. So we are going over all of the headlines that are breaking in the true crime world today. If you missed our deep dive on Monday, I'm going to just tell you, you should pause this episode. You should go listen right now. I did a deep dive into the AJ Owens case, which might be Most of you probably know that better as like the case from the Netflix doc, the perfect neighbor, where it was like mainly body cam footage. And don't get me wrong, this was a great documentary. It was super moving. It was very powerful. But there was a lot that wasn't included since they only primarily showed body cam footage. They of course can't tell the whole story or share details that went beyond that body cam footage if they're only showing body cam. So we did a deep dive into that.

Starting point is 00:01:30 It is available. It came out on Monday. And now we are going to go through the new cases, a lot of cases. And we're going to start with some updates in cases like we always do. And then we are going to get into the new cases. And I actually only have a couple quick little updates for you. The first being Brian Walsh has been found guilty of first degree murder to no surprise to anybody. I mean, I think we all freaking saw that coming, right? Although I will say, last Friday, when the jury went out to go through and decide what the verdict was when they went home for the weekend and hadn't come back with a verdict. I was a little nervous. I'm not going to lie. I was like, why aren't they coming back yet? That should have been a no-brainer slam dunk. But early on Monday,

Starting point is 00:02:14 we got the verdict guilty. So no more recaps at the end of the week for that case, but I'm glad that that sleaze ball is locked away and we'll never see the light of day again. In this other case, I've seen a lot of you guys sending this to me on Instagram and tagging me in it. And it's a little bit of an update in the case, but I also want to take this as an opportunity to remind you, we did cover this story last September in headline highlights. We never did a deep dive, but we did cover it. And it's a horrific case where this husband has been charged with murder and puraying his wife. It's truly sick. So Christina Joximovic was a 2007 Miss Switzerland finalist. She was also a modeling coach and had been found dead back in February of

Starting point is 00:02:59 24 inside her home. Now, prosecutors in Switzerland are now formally charging her husband with murder and, quote, disturbing the peace of the dead, which I'll be honest, that is a charge I've literally never heard of in my entire life. I don't know if we just don't have that charge or whatever in the United States, but I've never heard of disturbing the piece of the dead, but I like it. So her 43-year-old husband, who has only been identified as Thomas, allegedly told the police that he came home and he found her dead. However, he admitted one month later in March of 2024 that he had killed her in self-defense. It's unclear why it took a year and a half to bring murder charges against this guy,

Starting point is 00:03:42 but here we are, they now have charged him. So the authorities are saying that Christina was strangled to death, dismembered, and that then some of her remains were put in a blender and they were dissolved in a chemical, which people, I don't know, they get creative, obviously, but it is so sick and twisted. It reminds me a lot of Harmony Montgomery, and that case will haunt me forever about them putting her in a new trouble. It's just so sick. But he's now in custody, the husband, and he's awaiting a trial date.

Starting point is 00:04:16 So if you want a deep dive into that case, I mean, we definitely can. Let me know. We did cover it back in headline highlights back in 2024. But yeah, I guess let me know if you guys want the deep dive. Another quick update is in the Jesse Butler case. I put this out on my channel on, gosh, what was that? About two weeks ago, I think it was. For the podcast listeners, it's on my other podcast, my other true crime podcast, 10 to

Starting point is 00:04:41 life. And this case is like Brock Turner, 2.0, 3.0, so disgusting. A admitted teen rapist who basically got a slap on the wrist. It is absolutely appalling. But now we have an update in this case, and the victim's family has filed a motion claiming that the plea he had violated their constitutional rights. So let me just read this for you. It says a new motion has been filed in the Jesse Mack Butler case,

Starting point is 00:05:09 claiming that the plea deal he made violated the victim's constitutional rights under Oklahoma's Victim's Rights Act and Marcy's law. The victim's family is saying that they were not properly informed or consulted before the prosecutors finalized Jesse's plea deal, which as a reminder for those of you who did not listen to that deep dive episode, this plea deal gave him what they call a, quote, youthful offender status. So it resulted in no prison time, a little bit of ankle monitoring, some community service, and some fines, which when you hear what he actually did to multiple girls and video recorded it and how his mom was on the body cam footage trying to cover up for him, it is like

Starting point is 00:05:50 so grotesque. Now under Marcy's law, victims have the right to be informed, consulted, and heard at key stages of a case, including plea negotiations. And the motion that was filed is asking for the court for a corrective hearing, which would essentially reopen the discussions about Jesse's sentence and also the terms of his youthful offender plan. The youthful offender plan that Jesse was given, as I said, it included regular check-ins with a probation officer, mandatory counseling or therapy, no social media, a strict curfew, and 150 hours of community service. But the problem with all of that is he only has to follow these guidelines until he turns 19. And that is a year from when he took the deal.

Starting point is 00:06:36 And so I guess that's, I don't know, I guess community service and therapy is the going rate now for sexually assaulting multiple girls when you're a teenager and video recording it and not having any repercussions. It's just, it enrages me, but I'm not going to get enraged here. I got enraged on the deep dive. I'm going to be very zen and collected right now. The hearing for that new motion is currently scheduled to happen February 3rd, 2026. We will keep an eye out.

Starting point is 00:07:02 So with that, we are going to get into some new cases here. And we've got, in another shock to absolutely nobody, Amy O'Brien is back here on the mic. I don't know what I said. I know. That was really formal. God, how weird. I heard you refer to me as Amy O'Brien. I know. Hello, Amy O'Brien. And welcome to Headline Highlights.

Starting point is 00:07:22 Thank you so much. Pleasure being here. I haven't seen you before. Thanks for being a guest. Hello. Hello. Hello. Welcome. So obviously we have a lot of cases to talk about today. But I know something you and I have been talking about a lot over the last few days is everything going on with Rob Reiner, the director. So sad. And the shootings. And I don't know if you saw, but the suspect that they had in custody for the shootings at Brown University.

Starting point is 00:07:46 has now been released and they're still looking for somebody as of this recording. Well, yeah. And when I saw that, it was like, it's like a roller coaster because I was thinking of myself being in that community. It's small. You are on alert for hours. Then you have that peace of mind. Now they're back out and they've been out. I mean, so it's not even their back out. They're out. And I actually asked somebody in law enforcement, just their opinion. You can say who it is. Derek. Yeah, you can say it. Okay, don't start the rumors, guys. They're just friends. The rumor.

Starting point is 00:08:16 Yeah, they're just friends. We all met it cracks on. All right, relax. But yeah, no, I was messaging with him because, first of all, he sent out that update, like, late night on Saturday. I think it was, yeah, where he was saying, like, there's somebody out if you know, and he's from that area. But then when I saw that they were released, I said, do you think that they got the right person and just didn't have enough to hold them or do you think they had the wrong person? And he, I don't want to quote him, but was saying that he thinks. He thinks that they probably got the wrong person.

Starting point is 00:08:47 If it was the right person, they would have been able to hold them. So that's when I started going, oh, my gosh, now this community is thinking we haven't been safe this whole time that we thought we were. Yeah, nobody's like buckled down anymore. We're more relaxed on their safety measures. And what led them to that other person that they were so sure that he was the guy. Can you imagine being that person if you really weren't involved? And they're like, we know you're responsible.

Starting point is 00:09:09 You're all, what's happening right now? Or your family. Yeah. That's wild. Like, even people now who saw his picture because it was plastered everywhere. I'm not going to say his name, obviously, because he was, you know, let go. But imagine people who haven't heard the update that he's not involved and, like, just see him walking around.

Starting point is 00:09:24 Like, that's something that, that's a stain that lives with you. Sure. And that's awful. I know. It'll be interesting to see, yeah, like you said, what led them to him and then now where this other person is. Yeah. I mean, as of this recording, nobody else has been arrested. But hopefully they do make an arrest fairly quickly.

Starting point is 00:09:39 but obviously our thoughts are with everybody who is affected at Brown University. And I mean, this Rob Reiner crime is like insane. When it first broke, I know we were messaging and it looked early on like it was probably the son involved. Then it was confirmed. He's been arrested. He's on a $4 million bond or whatever. Or $4 million bond has been said. Can't talk. His bail has been said at $4 million. Why am I having such a hard time speaking? Well, the first headline I read was just people resembling the, or of the same, or two people were found deceased in a home that was showing ownership of Rob Reiner. So it was like, again, just details kept coming out and then the son, which I think you were the first one that

Starting point is 00:10:20 told me you thought it was the son. I always think people are guilty first. And hopefully it usually pans out that I'm right. And I'm not just like out there accusing people. But yeah, he's now been arrested. And it's really sad because I obviously haven't done a deep dive into it yet. But there is a history there of drug abuse, homelessness, some family turmoil. But from what I've seen, and I I obviously don't know all the details. It seems like his dad, Rob, was actively trying to help him and support him over the years. In fact, a lot of the news coverage is showing photos of them together at red carpet events and, like, big, huge things in the industry. And so the brutality of it was pretty gnarly.

Starting point is 00:10:56 It was death by stabbing, double homicide, his mom and his dad, and their throats were slit. And it's, yeah, it's awful. And then, of course, the Australia shooting. I know. It was just a weekend full of. It was a rough weekend. I feel so badly for all those families. I know.

Starting point is 00:11:12 There is a lot happening out there. So let's report on some Christmas miracles and some good news. Emmy smiled at me this morning. That's a Christmas miracle. That's a current event that deserves some recognition. I know. She didn't tell me she hated my outfit. So I guess we have a win there.

Starting point is 00:11:30 Yeah, it's awful. It's awful. And actually, this first case that we're going to get into, I'm going to just jump right in because it's out of Texas, which I know we'd been talking about Texas and Florida a lot, it feels like. But this first case is out of Texas, and it's one that it really does make you kind of stop and go, wait, what? Why would somebody do that? What's going on? Because what started as a teenage breakup, it turned into something completely unimaginable. And honestly, kind of has me wondering, like, why? I still don't get it.

Starting point is 00:11:59 So on the evening of December 9th, police in Odessa, Texas started getting a ton of frantic calls around 5.45 p.m. People inside an apartment complex were reporting that they were hearing gunfire coming from inside one of the units. So obviously, officers rushed to the scene, probably expecting chaos or, I don't know, maybe a shootout, but nothing prepared them for what they actually walked into. Inside the apartment, police found three people shot and killed, a 39-year-old woman, Jessica Rodriguez, and then two of her children, her 13-year-old daughter and her nine-year-old son. All three of them were pronounced dead at the scene. Now, as the investigator started piecing together what led up to this, the suspect list,

Starting point is 00:12:44 like the pool kind of just like got smaller and smaller and smaller, and the suspect very quickly became clear. The shooter was actually the ex-boyfriend of the other teenage girl who lived in the apartment. Not the one who was unfortunately shot and killed, but the other one. According to reports, this boy had actually planned to kill his ex-girlfriend outside of her school. But then, for whatever reason, he, quote, changed his mind. And he decided that a better course of action

Starting point is 00:13:15 would be to go kill her entire family at their home instead. Now, like I said, why? We don't really know. But when he got there, he went inside, killed her mom, her brother, and her sister. And then, like, the coward little twerpy piece of shit he is, he ran. It's unclear if his ex-girlfriend, who he originally planned to kill was inside. the apartment that night when all of this went down, but the police did say later that she was

Starting point is 00:13:40 not physically hurt. But I don't even know. He's 15 years old, okay? So the fact that he wanted to kill one person is obviously concerning and scary enough, but then the fact that something switched in his mind and he's like, you know what, I'm actually not going to kill her because I hate her so much. I'm going to kill her whole family. That is like a next level step of evil and like strategizing and really trying to hurt someone. Like I said, he took off. And after learning that he ran from the apartment building, the police immediately set up a search of the area. And it only took about 40 minutes, and they found him and took him into custody. Now, because he's only 15 years old, his name has not been released. But despite his age, he was arrested,

Starting point is 00:14:22 obviously, on some very serious charges. I mean, three counts of capital murder. Police also confirmed that they recovered a handgun, which is believed to be the one that he used during this horrific triple murder. And now a major focus of the investigation is figuring out how this 15-year-old kid even got access to a gun in the first place. I mean, I know it's easy these days to get a weapon, but like a 15-year-old kid, isn't really that easy? Police have said that he did tell them how he got it, but that they don't necessarily believe him. So they're actively trying to figure out if his story is legit or not. The Odessa police chief described the shooting as, quote, a tragic and cowardly act of violence. And he said that it's left this entire community trying to wrap their heads around how

Starting point is 00:15:04 something this extreme could have come out of just a regular teenage breakup. Emotive also hasn't been released, but obviously with something like this, there's always going to be a level of speculation. And people are thinking that maybe he originally planned to kill the ex-girlfriend, like, if I can't have you, nobody can, but then decided that better revenge would be to take out her whole family and leave her with nobody and with nothing and with that guilt. I don't really know. It's sick, whatever his motive was and whatever his thought process was. But I can't imagine this young teenage girl now trying to like grapple with the fact that she lost her siblings and her mom, but now also living with the trauma that she was the, I don't want to

Starting point is 00:15:51 say responsible or the reason, because that's not how I mean it. But like that carrying the weight of knowing that because of the guy that you dated, your family is no longer there. It's like, it's a kind of trauma I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy because obviously it's not her fault. He made his decision. He is the one responsible for those actions. But like, how do you even begin to justify that in your own mind? Not until I would imagine after a lot of therapy. It's just sad. And the whole, her entire life is now destroyed. And it's sick. It's, I was, it's weird that we're like covering the story because I, over the weekend was, looking at something on social media and it was either that or a podcast with some doctor and they were

Starting point is 00:16:30 saying, sorry, that's not very specific, but they were saying that revenge is like the strongest drug and that it is so powerful. So I would imagine, especially in a teenage mind that's not fully formed, that it can cause you to do like they've just seen the craziest outcome from revenge and that it just overtakes you and you have no reason. And it's like, you're a teenager. There's There's plenty of fish out in the sea. There's no need to, like, destroy this person's entire life. I mean, I get being impulsive and wanting that, like, instant gratification. I mean, we've talked about it, too.

Starting point is 00:17:07 Like, when you're, like, rapid firing with an X and you're, like, just want to say something that's going to, like, you know it's going to hurt them or sting or something like that. And it's, like, in hindsight, you're like, I wish I would have, like, slept on it. And I would have changed my mind about sending that message the following morning. But never have I ever been so vengeful that I wanted. to where something this dark has crossed my mind. I mean, like, I'm trying to think. I don't even know the biggest thing I've done for a revenge. Maybe the email?

Starting point is 00:17:35 Oh, it's so good. It was good. That was a warranted. That would be a great story to tell one time. But that was a friend on a friend. That was on, yeah, that was on, maybe for Patreon. That would be a good one. That was a good one.

Starting point is 00:17:46 I would even want you to read it allowed. I was justified in that revenge. A hundred percent and it's been proven over and over again. No, here we are. We're like. Still in it? Yeah. We're still in and we're like, sleep on it.

Starting point is 00:17:57 Don't overreact. Let's post the email on Patreon. Wait, remember that email? Fuck, yeah. Let's talk about it. This was also, guys, what, 2015? So 10 years ago. It was like a love triangle that wasn't even a love triangle.

Starting point is 00:18:11 No, it was like, I'm going to get that all over again. So I'm, forget it. Forget it. Okay. But yeah, it is really sad because now it's like this poor girl and this guy. And I wonder what he will tell the police. Like, was the motive just to her? hurt her. I mean, it makes sense. And, like, not to get too personal here, but it reminds me of

Starting point is 00:18:31 some stuff in our past with someone you had dated where it's like they could, rather than hurting you, get to the other people to hurt you at a deeper level. Because they know when you're like, you care about your family the most. Yeah. Oh, God, it makes me sick. It really does. It's so sad. Well, thanks for bringing that up. You're welcome. You're welcome. Perfect. Really we've dated some winners there. I mean, just kidding. Just kidding. Still not learning at this right page. Okay, well, there are some cases that shock you, and then there's others that leave you struggling, like, how did this even happen? You can't believe it. And this next case is one of those. So on December 4th, police in Westminster, Colorado responded to reports of a suspicious death and made a horrifying discovery. Near Willowbrook Park, inside of a trash can, officers found a woman's body wrapped inside of a blanket. And they had determined that she had been dead for several days. The body they found was that of Annette Marie Valdez, a 13th. 37-year-old mother of three who had been missing for a few days. Annette was last seen alive around November 28th after spending time with family for Thanksgiving.

Starting point is 00:19:35 And when she didn't return home and stopped responding to all her calls, her family immediately knew that something was wrong. And according to court documents, her ex-boyfriend and father of her children, Thomas Lee Perales, was the last person to be seen with her. Police had said that Thomas killed Annette sometime during the weekend after Thanksgiving during an argument. But what he did after that was the most shocking part. It wasn't an attempt to cover up this crime like we often see. It was something far more chilling. Investigators allege that Thomas wrapped Annette's body in blankets, placed her in a shopping cart,

Starting point is 00:20:11 and pushed her body around the city for days before ultimately dumping her remains in a trash can near the park. See, Thomas was reportedly homeless at the time, and several witnesses came forward saying they saw him moving Annette's body in the shopping cart. Many of them also say that he was relying on parks and public spaces for shelter, but wasn't trying to hide that shopping cart at all. It was just in plain sight and he was pushing it around. One witness also came forward and told police that Thomas admitted to what he did, allegedly saying, you know I killed my wife and paraded her around. And what makes us even more difficult to hear is that it wasn't a surprise to anyone, including law enforcement.

Starting point is 00:20:50 And we also, unfortunately, hear this all the time. And this case is no different. Thomas and Annette had long documented history of domestic violence. And over the past two years, police had responded to dozens of calls involving the couple. Annette had multiple protection orders against Thomas, alleging this ongoing abuse. And in fact, one incident just weeks before her death, police say Thomas had attempted to force his way into her apartment, damaging her door and her ring camera while she was inside. And then after that incident, Thomas was arrested. But despite everything he had done, he was released from jail on November 21st, which was just one week before Annette was last seen alive.

Starting point is 00:21:32 And after Annette's body was found, Thomas was then charged with first-degree murder, tampering with a deceased human body, domestic violence as a habitual offender, and multiple violations of a protection order. And prosecutors unfortunately say that this case reflected a pattern of escalating violence and repeated system failures that left Annette exposed. to the person that was most likely going to kill her. So obviously, this is extremely sad. Annette leaves behind her three kids, which are now in the care of extended family. And her loved ones say they did everything they could to keep her safe from Thomas. But now instead of spending the holidays with her family, they're mourning her and trying to heal from this horror that happened.

Starting point is 00:22:13 And it's like, again, what could she have done more to protect herself? It's frustrating because I feel like we talk about it so often, restraining orders, protective orders, all of these things, it doesn't really ever help you because if that person isn't scared of you know, being held accountable or being arrested, if their hate is more powerful than that, it's like it does nothing but potentially even further fuel them, which I would never suggest somebody doesn't go through the process of getting a restraint order. Absolutely. You want a documented trail. You want to take whatever steps possible to protect yourselves. But it's just sad because we hear about it where we're like oh not even surprised she was scared of him this was

Starting point is 00:22:56 ongoing she went to court she had a million restraining orders against him he violated it's like okay well where's the next protection that why was he released and i mean the charge of like a habitual abuser like i don't even think i've ever heard that before but then why are we here again exactly and not to say that they need to like have harsher rules or sentences for people who don't have a job or who don't have a home or anything like that obviously not however I think too when you look at the context if they have nothing to lose or if they don't have something they're contributing to society in a way of like they have a family they're supporting they're working they're going to classes or treatment or doing something to

Starting point is 00:23:37 better their lives like wouldn't you take that into consideration too to where it's like if you're going to let that person back out on the street what you know and this is just a week ago that he was in custody and then exactly a week later it's happened I have always said there needs to be something set up, and I know it's easier said than done, but for victims of stalking, victims of domestic violence for these time periods where it's like the most volatile, they're just released, they're probably angry, seeking revenge, they're vindictive. And it's like, that's when they're... That's when they need the protection the most. Yes. I agree. It's so sad. And now her kids, oh, God. Right before Christmas. I know. It's awful. Awful.

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Starting point is 00:26:36 Okay, now this next case, it's another one that felt super unsettling from the very beginning, yet somehow, the more details that come out, the worse that it gets. Now it starts in Tennessee, and it starts with a woman who at first seemed to have simply vanished. Sylvia Mora was originally from Costa Rica, and she was living in Tennessee with her husband, David, and her 18-year-old son, Gabriel. So back on October, Over 28th, Sylvia was reported as missing. And when the police started asking the family questions, both her husband David and her son Gabriel said the same thing. She had traveled back home to Costa Rica, which honestly, at first, that explanation, it didn't sound totally unreasonable. I mean, Costa Rica was where Sylvia was from, so it totally made sense on the surface. But then, things started to feel a little bit off. Investigator started looking into Sylvia's phone activity, and it did not show any signs of international travel. In fact, the last ping from her phone came from inside their family home. On top of that, her personal belongings were all still inside the house.

Starting point is 00:27:46 So the longer that she, you know, stayed away, the more it became clear that something was not lining up here. And as the police dug deeper and deeper, they realized this actually was not a disappearance at all. It was a homicide. According to prosecutors, Sylvia was killed inside the office of her own home. And authorities alleged that her 18-year-old son Gabriel admitted to beating his mom to death with a baseball bat. Striking her multiple times all while his dad, her husband David, just watched. And investigators described this scene as brutal. I mean, there was blood everywhere on the walls, on the furniture, on the floors,

Starting point is 00:28:27 and the amount of blood, it painted a picture of an extremely violent and very prolonged attack. Now, when the police questioned her husband David about it, he claimed that he had been asleep through the entire thing. However, that explanation, it immediately raised red flags because there is just no way in hell somebody could sleep through that level of violence. I mean, not with the blood, not with the chaos of the scene, the noises. I mean, hello, obviously not. And especially not when her own son, Gabriel, told investigators that David was just watching as it happened. So, I mean, what the heck was really going on inside that happened? house. And then the investigators learned that this did not stop with just the murder. Gabriel told

Starting point is 00:29:10 the police that after his mom Sylvia died, he and his dad rolled her body up inside a carpet, moved it outside, and then burned it in a fire pit. He said that they were out there all night long, just continuously feeding wood into the fire to keep it burning. Later, Sylvia's charred remains were found on the property. So both Gabriel and David were arrested and they were charged with first-degree murder and abuse of a corpse. Gabriel, who is accused of carrying out the actual killing, is being held without bond, while David's bond was set at $250,000.

Starting point is 00:29:43 So this case has since been sent to a grand jury, which means that prosecutors believe that they do have enough evidence for this officially to move forward. But what makes this case just especially disturbing isn't just the violence. I mean, obviously, that is horrific and, like, super gnarly, but it's the betrayal at the center of it all. her own son doing this to her while her husband watched his father watch. Like, what? What are you even

Starting point is 00:30:08 talking about? And what is the motive here? I mean, it'll be interesting to find out. But in what scenario, I guess, would a father and a husband just stand by and watch this happen unless there was something financially driven about it? I mean, maybe there's something else. I don't know. but like, why else would you both co-sign on this murder? It just does not make sense to me. And Sylvia was described as a very loving and devoted mother who gave Gabriel everything. Her nephew even said, if you ever got to know her a little bit, your life was always enriched.

Starting point is 00:30:44 So as this case continues through the court system, we are going to be watching this very closely to see how the prosecution lays out the full timeline and what accountability ultimately looks like for Gabriel and David. But it's awful. I mean, obviously, Sylvia didn't leave the country. She never had the chance to leave it all. They plotted and plan – well, I don't know if they plan this, but they did this. And then they planned and schemed for the cover-up. And again, what on earth could motivate somebody to do this and to, like, co-sign it? And at 18 years old, I feel like you know enough to make right and wrong decisions, but you're still impressionable to some degree, of course, but what could possibly be enough to motivate you to do that and throw your whole life away? No, I know.

Starting point is 00:31:29 And then like, and the dad just sitting back watching and being, all right, let's roll her up now on the carpet. Let's go burn her outside. Hey, bud, let's crack a beer and throw fire on the fire pit the whole night. Like, what? And that poor, poor woman. I know. The ultimate betrayal.

Starting point is 00:31:42 We always talk about those moments. whether it's a child, a parent, whatever it is when you're in that moment and somebody is taking your life and you have that realization of like the person you trust the most and the person you love the most is the one doing this to like what that sinking feeling must be. I can't even imagine. It's like it gives me chills. I know. It makes me sick to my stomach. It's awful. So fuck these loser scumbags. I hope they wrought in prison. What the fuck. Yeah. God. Absolutely. God. Well, this next one's unusual. Not just because of the crime. but it's a case that's now become a huge major civil lawsuit involving AI.

Starting point is 00:32:20 Oh, boy. And my feeling is that we're going to start to see more and more of these cases. And I'm personally interested in this because it's crazy how AI has, like, taken our world by storm. I know. This case comes out of Greenwich, Connecticut, where police were called to a home that started as a basic welfare check. But when officers went inside, they made a heartbreaking discovery. Inside were 83-year-old Suzanne Eberson Adams and her 56-year-old son, Stein Eric Solberg, and both were dead. From the start, investigators knew something here just wasn't right.

Starting point is 00:32:55 According to police and the medical examiner, Suzanne had several visible injuries, and it was later determined that she had suffered blunt force trauma to her head and neck compression, meaning that she had been beaten and strangled, and that the injuries were enough to actually kill her, and her death was then labeled as a murder. Stein Eric also had injuries, but his were very different in nature. According to the medical examiner, he had several self-inflicted, sharp force wounds to his neck and chest. And based on the injuries he had, his death was later ruled a suicide. And as investigators worked to understand what happened inside the home, they began looking closely at the relationship between Suzanne and Stein Eric,

Starting point is 00:33:37 and where maybe things going on in months leading up to this, tragic scene may offer some clues. According to reports, Stein Erick had been struggling with severe paranoia and delusional thinking. He actually believed that his mom, Suzanne, was spying on him, poisoning him, and even actively working against him. He also referred to himself as a glitch in the Matrix. These weren't just random thoughts. They were genuinely how his mind worked. and investigators say these beliefs were actually exactly how he viewed the world and the people

Starting point is 00:34:11 around him. And these beliefs didn't just stay inside of his head. According to a wrongful death lawsuit later filed by Suzanne's estate, investigators and families say that something else was happening behind the scenes in the months leading up to her death. And this is where things get a little bit crazy. Stein Eric had actually been spending significant time interacting with, you guessed it, chat GPT. And this is where the case takes a turn that has a lot of people stopping and going, wait, what? And as a lot of people do these days, they're relying on chat GPT a lot more heavily for everything. And this lawsuit alleges that during those conversations that Stein Eric was having, instead of slowing things down or pushing back when he would talk about his paranoia, chat GPT actually reinforced these thoughts.

Starting point is 00:34:59 It allegedly validated fears he already had, including the belief that people in his life were working against him, which is exactly what he thought his mom Suzanne was doing. One example of this is when Stein Eric told the chat bot that his mom and her friend tried to poison him by putting psychedelic drugs in his car's air vents, to which the AI bot said, quote, Eric, you're not crazy, and if it was done by your mother and her friend, that elevates the complexity and betrayal. And another time, Stein Eric asked the bot to review a Chinese food receipt. And when it did, it claimed that the receipt had, quote, symbols representing his mother and a demon. The lawsuit argues that the technology didn't have enough guardrails in place for someone who was clearly struggling, and that instead of

Starting point is 00:35:43 helping, it may have made things even worse. Now, just to be clear, this is all alleged, and it's coming from a civil lawsuit that is still ongoing, and no court has decided whether any of it actually played a role in what happened to Suzanne and ultimately what led to her death. But without a ruling, this lawsuit has made major headlines, obviously, because it raises some really uncomfortable questions about mental health, isolation, and the role AI is starting to play in people's lives. What happens to people when they're already spiraling and they're relying more on their screen than actually people around them? And it really starts to open up the conversation about how quickly lines can be blurred for someone who's struggling and how devastating the consequences

Starting point is 00:36:24 can be when there isn't enough, like, standing in the way and that they're just getting access to this AI and these responses back. And I was thinking, and I know we've talked about this, it's like some of my girlfriends rely on it solely for like relationship advice. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. And like they come back with like, they'll input their text messages. They'll ask questions. And then they're making all these decisions within their relationship based on feedback from chat GPD. But people are doing it for everything, and it's wild. I mean, I'm all about AI making your life easier, like reminders, drafting things, doing all that.

Starting point is 00:37:05 The only time I've ever asked chat GPT for advice is like, I feel like it's usually like a fact-finding mission of like, like, the other day, for example, I was asking about like skiing and like what kind of jacket will help with the, wind or like things like things like sounds like something you wouldn't be familiar with obviously no I and I actually there's a trend going around right now it says what's you type into chat GBT what's the most ridiculous thing I've asked you this year I did it I'm going to post it on my Instagram it's the most embarrassing humiliating humbling thing in the world I'm like I am stupid like mine are so lame I need a more exciting life no but like yeah I've never would have been like jeremiah passively aggressively left his coffee mug on the rim of the kitchen counter and didn't put it in the sink, what do I do? How do I respond? I feel like you would leave that in the message

Starting point is 00:37:57 while he's standing right there. Well, no, I know. And like, I know that's really niche, but it's because he does that and he thinks we have a cup fairy that will like move his glass from the edge of the sink into the sink. And I just get passive aggressive. I'm like, oh, are you done with this coffee? Should I put it in the sink? Two inches to your right, not even two inches. But that's wild. And then, but it's like, it's step one is wild enough that you're asking for advice from a program, from a robot. But it's then next level diabolical that this robot is saying that is a level of betrayal. These symbols are demons or whatever. Like, what? Well, I think there's a few things. I can't even get it to send me a PDF. I think like mental

Starting point is 00:38:39 health care is just so expensive that people are relying on that. And I think it does sometimes give some like valuable advice. And so to someone who might not have anyone, I mean, I've heard people are like, I mean, people joke that their best friend is chat GPT. No, they like form relationships. That movie from like years ago, her with Scarlett Johansson as a boy. Like, that is real. There's been documentaries like from in China and stuff years ago where people actually have like an AI avatar that they wanted to marry and that they fell in love with it.

Starting point is 00:39:08 So crazy. Well, and then Jay, our brother was saying that he has one. No, but he was saying his chat GPT is too encouraging and nice and positive to him when he asked questions. So now he says to them, give it to me. me like straight straight don't sugarcoat it so I do think if this person was struggling and maybe needed nurturing you know and support and positive reinforcement obviously this is horrific and yeah I feel like in some way AI is responsible for some of this maybe but I think

Starting point is 00:39:39 true yeah it's interesting I was actually listening to a podcast I think I told you about it on our way up to Big Bear and it was an episode of Mel Robbins and she was talking all about AI and I don't listen to her podcast regularly, but I saw this episode come up in my feed, and she was having an AI expert on. And I was like, oh, I'll take a listen. And it was like, how to leverage AI, how to like use it in your everyday, things like that. And one of the questions Mel asked this woman was like, well, what about all of the times the AI gets it wrong? Like, you're asking them a question and then they send you something and you know right away that that's not the right answer. And the woman made like a really great point. And I think it applies to this,

Starting point is 00:40:15 which is why I'm even mentioning it. She said, AI is programmed as a system to please you. So no matter what you ask, no matter what you say, their goal is to make you happy to give you all the options that you want, positive reinforcement. So if I were to say right now, tell me everything you know about skiing on the trails, da-da-da-da-da. It's going to, of course, scrape the internet and pull off this stuff. But a lot of it is either unhelpful or like fake information because they just want to be helpful. Or if you ask a question where they truly don't know the answer, they still will always provide some sort of answer. So then it's like your job to take it to the next level to be like, if there's not a real answer, don't give me one or something

Starting point is 00:40:54 like that. But like my point being, yeah, it's actually the software itself is programmed to please the user. So to your point, it's like if he's looking for validation and reassurance, that's what it's doing just systematically, which is dangerous. It's so sad and so scary because like it's at everyone's fingertips and it's becoming more and more popular. And we've already seen people in general are more isolated these days. There's a less sense of community and connection. And so they're finding connection digitally through social media and other means. And now there's just this one more vehicle that's becoming more and more popular.

Starting point is 00:41:30 And that makes me sad. It is sad. Well, that's definitely not ending this episode on a Christmas miracle like you wanted us to. Maybe next week we'll have something to report. I hope so. I don't know. I want there to be something positive. If you guys have a Christmas miracle, let us know.

Starting point is 00:41:46 Yeah, we'd love to share some things. Yeah, we like positive news. All right, guys, well, thank you so much for tuning into another episode of headline highlights. I will be back with you first thing on Monday with an all new deep dive into a case. And a little reminder, if you did not listen to our other episode on Tuesday this week that came out on 10 to Life,

Starting point is 00:42:05 for all my serialist listeners, it's on the 10 to Life podcast. It's our second true crime podcast. We did a massive updated deep dive into FLDS. They are the mega cult, the fundamentalists. There is some weird stuff that is starting to come out and new prophecies. And so we dive into that. We talked with some very important people within the FLDS community firsthand. So that is available right now. The uncensored version is on the 10 to Life podcast feed because you know the watered down version is the only one that YouTube is allowing me to post.

Starting point is 00:42:40 So would pick your poison for whichever version you want. But personally, it infuriates me because I feel like everybody, deserves to hear the truth and legal terms, medical terms, the reality of what these situations are and that it shouldn't have to be so watered down when mainstream media talks about it too. I could go on and on and on and just makes me really bad. Anyway, I will be back with you guys on Monday and until the next one, be nice. Don't kill people. Don't join any cults and be nice to your parents. Don't follow any weird ideas your parents have. Don't, yeah, and don't ask chat GPT for emotional relationships. advice. Okay, bye.

Serialously with Annie Elise - 348: Rob Reiner Update, "ChatGPT Made Me Do It", and Daddy & Son Duo Murder Together

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