Serialously with Annie Elise - 373: Anna Kepner’s Killer Gets Slap on the Wrist?, D4vd is Going DOWN, & Kouri Richins is The Worst

Starting point is 00:00:01 Hey, true crime besties, welcome back to an all-new episode of serialously. Hello, hello, welcome back to an all-new episode of serialously with me, your host, Annie E. Lease, also your true crime bestie. And for those of you who are brand new to the podcast, maybe listening for the first time, let me just break down what we do over here. I mean, first and foremost, obviously, we are a true crime podcast. But we do two shows a week, one on Monday and one on Thursday. The Monday show is a deep dive where we go into one. single case, research it like crazy, get the court documents, the interviews, talk with law enforcement, go to Reddit to see what theories are out there. I mean, the works. So it's a full deep dive.

Starting point is 00:01:00 And then on days like today, on Thursdays, we do a segment called headline highlights, where we talk about everything that is happening this week in true crime, whether that be a new case that is breaking, possibly an update to a case that we have done a previous deep dive on, and just so that you can feel like, you know, you're in the know with how everything. thing is moving and I was going to say moving and groomen, which I hate that. I don't even know why I was going to say that, but you get what I'm talking about. Also, last weekend headline highlights, we did a giveaway for a weekend pass for CrimeCon, which is going to be this May in Las Vegas. So the winner has been chosen. It is in the show notes. Check the episode description and see if it

Starting point is 00:01:40 was you. And we will do another giveaway in the future too. So you also want to listen to these episodes because not only do we give you all the deets of true crime, but also we do giveaways. And so headline highlights today. We've got a lot to talk about. Joining me in studio is Amy Colette. Hello. Good morning. Good morning. How are we feeling today? I don't know. Are we moving and grooving? Honestly. As soon as I gave myself the hit. I was grossed out. I was so grossed out. I hate that. And what did I say the other day? I don't even know. I just hate some of the vocabulary. You're getting older. Okay. That is so rude.

Starting point is 00:02:17 Rude. I actually, I do have a question for you, and I have been meaning to ask you, have you watched Love Story yet? Obsessed. Okay. Wait, I posted about it last night. You did? Or a couple nights ago.

Starting point is 00:02:27 Oh, okay. I'm obsessed. Binged it. But I am so much more stupid than I think I ever knew. I don't know history apparently at all, which. Oh my gosh. Let me hear it. Kind of tracks because I missed so many days of high school because I just didn't want to go.

Starting point is 00:02:43 I thought this whole time when hearing about it that it was JFK, and I feel like I knew it was JFK Jr. But in my mind, I always thought that JFK and Carolyn story was before he got with Jackie and that it was like the main JFK guy and that he dated Carolyn and that was his one true love. And then he got with Jackie because she had to, like it was politics or whatever. And then I also thought her maiden name was Onassis. I didn't know she remarried. And so I'm like, I don't know anything. So, well, I will say maybe 20 years ago I was confused by that. Okay.

Starting point is 00:03:18 However. You are older and wiser. I mean, they died in the 90s. So what did you think? He was like in his 90s, but then also had the face of a hot, younger. Okay. Easy there, Cougar. I mean, he's hot. Well, I didn't know that he died young.

Starting point is 00:03:33 Like, I didn't know anything. I just thought, oh, JFK, they were going to talk about the love story before he was with Jackie. That kind of sucks. Like, what a dick. But like, then I watched it. I was like, oh, no. And then I remembered the famous photo where when his dad, real JFK, passed away and he's like saluting him. And I was like, that's right. He had a son. I get it now. I'm following. And of course, I don't know if you're like me or if any of you listeners are like me. Anytime I watch something that is rooted in history or like based on, you know, historical events, I go psychotic with needing to research every single detail. So I have been like in the depths of hell on the internet wanting to know everything about JFK, everything. about Jackie, what was her apartment like?

Starting point is 00:04:15 How much was it? What streets did they live on? Like, I'm just so nosy. Everyone's doing the deep dive because everyone's so nostalgic for that time. Yes, yes. But now you probably see why Carol from Real Housewives of New York was friends with Carolyn, same age. Same.

Starting point is 00:04:28 It tracks. Okay. And I just don't think I ever knew the full story. And I do have a hot take and then we're going to get into all this. I see everybody on social media is not only obsessed with him, but like obsessed with the styles from then. and like with Carolyn, the hair flips, the long hair, she's problematic, in my opinion. I don't know if it's just the way that they're portraying her on this.

Starting point is 00:04:49 I just feel like she's bugging me. Emotionally unavailable a little bit? Maybe, and I get it. She's playing the game and it was like that famous book, The Rule or the Rules or whatever the hell it was. But like, she kind of bugs. I don't agree. You don't? And I also kind of think he bugs.

Starting point is 00:05:05 Like he's kind of a- I feel like he likes her because she's a bit of a chase. Of course, but like I also think- And I love him. He's just so. humble. I don't mind that she's like playing hard to get, but what bothers me is like, and this is going to sound like a woman hating a woman, which I don't mean for it to come across that way, but like how invasive she is at work and how she's like, just like a big person

Starting point is 00:05:27 out to her. I'm just like, you're bothering me a little bit. I don't know. It's so weird how people can see it so differently. Maybe I wasn't paying attention during those times, but I felt like more she went in like bottom of the ranks and like was quickly identified as like a super But like from pushing other people down the ladder to climb herself, which that I don't like. I don't love that. I don't know. I love it though. I'm fully caught up.

Starting point is 00:05:49 I love the soundtrack. There's a new episode tonight, actually. Oh. And I'm really excited to watch it. But yeah, I'm like. Well, and their fight in, did you see the fight in Central Park? Or not in the real footage. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:06:02 That's kind of wild. No, I know. When you have paparazzi chasing you every day, like to get in a public fight like that is pretty nerly. I was around back then. Oh my gosh. It would be gnarly. But yeah, it's a really interesting story.

Starting point is 00:06:12 So not that this is sponsored by FX, but or is it Netflix or no, it's Hulu. It's FX. Not sponsored, but Ryan Murphy, you should hit me up and sponsor because I just gave you a six minute and 22 second plug. No, I really like it. For those of you who have not watched Love Story yet, go watch it. Well, they're doing the JFK lookalike in Washington Square Park this weekend. Oh, really? So that's why I'm like, I want to book a flight.

Starting point is 00:06:38 Oh, God. I think maybe next episode, I have a lot of thoughts on him. I think he's kind of like a mama's boy a little bit and like problematic in his own way. And I don't know, whatever. I have a lot of thoughts. And again, who knows if Ryan Murphy's portrayal of them is true. He has butchered, in my opinion, quite a few of those like docu dramas like OJ and Nicole and like different things. So who knows what's true or what's not.

Starting point is 00:07:02 I heard most of it is actually fiction that they didn't have a lot of just historically. there's not a lot of information on them. So anytime there's been any sort of documentary or any type of storytelling about them, a lot of it is kind of filling in the gaps. He also did Daryl Hannah so dirty. Yeah, I've heard mixed things about that. The voice spot on with the actress, but like, I don't know. I feel like he did her so dirty. Oh, I love her. I love her from Kill Bill. She's so good. Okay. So anyway, we are going to get into today's cases. And I want to start with an update in a case, one that we have been talking about together since. September, and it's a case that has everybody asking a lot of questions as well. It's the ongoing

Starting point is 00:07:44 case involving David, D4VD, and Celeste Hernandez. Now, I want to rewind first and do a quick little recap for everybody because it feels like information about this case has just been coming in in bits and pieces for the last several months. I also did do a mini deep dive on this when it first broke back in September, and it goes into all of the details about how David and Celeste met, their alleged relationship and way more. But back in early 2024, 14-year-old Celeste Hernandez was reported missing from Lake Elsinore, California. Now, she had run away a few times before this, but she always was found and always had returned back home. However, this time, she was never found. So then, fast forward to September 8th, 2025, when a tow yard in L.A. had called the police about

Starting point is 00:08:32 a terrible odor and flies that were coming from a black test. Now, this Tesla had been brought there after it had been reported as abandoned, so then it was taken to this tow yard. And when the police arrived upon hearing, you know, of this odor and these flies circling around, they found severely decomposed remains in the frunk of the Tesla, which that word will never get easier and less cringe to say. But basically, it's the front trunk. There were also rumors at the time that the body that they had found was dismembered. However, I think it was like TMZ had reported that. and then it was quickly debunked, and then it was also indicated that it had been frozen, and I'm going to get to that in just a minute here. So ultimately, the body was later identified as

Starting point is 00:09:15 Celeste, and the Tesla was registered to a 20-year-old rising musician who went by David, or D4VD, his legal name, David Anthony Burke. Now, as soon as the investigators had a person connected to this Tesla, the investigation started unfolding. However, I will say, it started unfolding, pretty slowly. LAPD executed search warrants at the house that David was staying in. He was renting it at the time, a mansion in the Hollywood Hills, and then they took the Tesla as evidence, and they also seized electronics from the house. However, through all of this, Celeste's death had never been publicly ruled as a homicide. No suspects had been named either. And the reason for this is because when they found the decomposed remains, it was said that they were so badly decomposed that they not only couldn't

Starting point is 00:10:05 identify a cause of death, but they couldn't identify a manner of death. And I'm going to get a little more into that in a bit, too. But some big developments have happened in the last couple of months, and I want to review those. About a month ago, we talked about how there was a grand jury in this case, and that one of David's friends had been arrested for failure to appear as a witness. However, the details of the grand jury weren't exactly clear until now, because just recently, over 150 court documents were released by the state of Texas. And they were released kind of unintentionally. See, David's parents, Colleen and DeWood Burke, were subpoenaed to appear as witnesses in the grand jury.

Starting point is 00:10:44 But when they fought those subpoenas in Texas court, all of the court records became public. And these records not only confirmed some of the things that people were already speculating, but they also tell us some new information. The first thing that we learned from these documents is that, David is, quote, the official target of this grand jury. He's listed as the target on the cover page. He's listed as a target throughout the filings. And it's pretty clear that he's the person that they're going after here. The documents also specifically say that David is alleged to have committed one count of murder and that he, quote, may be involved in the death of 14-year-old victim Celeste Hernandez. And this is important, who may have been a victim of foul play. And like I said, before now,

Starting point is 00:11:29 he had never been named a suspect. And while I think all of us collectively suspected that he was involved, given their alleged history, it was never until this release of these documents that it became reality. And I want to go back to that line about where it says that he may be involved in the death of 14-year-old victim Celeste Hernandez, who may have been a victim of foul play. Because earlier, when I mentioned, when the remains were first found, they couldn't identify obviously cause of death or manner of death. So they certainly couldn't tell if there was foul play or not, right?

Starting point is 00:12:02 But another important detail was that a lot of people were thinking that maybe he would be able to skirt out of this or around this by saying, you know, it was an accidental death, it was an overdose. Then I panicked and I just concealed her body, which for those who aren't familiar, the charges and the sentencing between manslaughter, murder one, murder two, or like concealed. of a corpse or even dismemberment of a corpse, the sentences are so vastly different. You can serve under a year sometimes for just concealment of a body. So at that point, it was like, unless they actually knew that the cause of death was homo—or the manner of death, rather, was homicide.

Starting point is 00:12:42 They couldn't really do much. So here, I think it's pretty telling that they say she may have been the victim of foul play. The other thing that was, again, always speculated, but never confirmed, was that Celeste's body was dismembered. Now, according to these newly released filings, it was actually worse than anybody thought or heard. Her body was confirmed to be dismembered, but it was also confirmed to have been put in two separate cadaver bags. One bag had her head and torso, and the other bag had her arms and legs. The documents describe severe decomposition, insects everywhere, and a strong smell of decay, which is so awful and horrible. She was 14 years old.

Starting point is 00:13:25 it is just the fact that they were in a relationship, again, allegedly, and he was so many years older than her. And then this is the way that they dispose of her. I say they, meaning him. And I think his, you know, what do you call it? Not posse, but like, what do you call it? Like, group? I don't know. What's the word? Like, your camp, your click. What's the word? I was going to say posse too, but I stopped myself. Yeah. Like, I think that he had help is my point. And I think that that's why in the previous grand jury, it was a failure to appear. I don't think, anybody's wanting to like flip on him and talk about him. But also if you remember too, right after the news broke of the body of Celeste's body being found, he put, he transferred his properties into

Starting point is 00:14:06 his mom's name, things that you don't do if you're innocent unless you're trying to like protect your assets, right? So there's obviously still so much more that needs to be done to finally have justice for Celeste. David hasn't even been arrested at this point yet. He isn't facing any official charges, as far as we know. But the fact that he is the target of this new investigation and the grand jury and all of it, it's definitely a start. So it's certainly more than we had a few months ago. I'm going to continue to follow this one very, very closely as it moves forward. And hopefully they finally have enough after all of this to arrest David. But let me know what you think. And let me know if you want me to revisit and do another single deep dive with everything

Starting point is 00:14:48 that has come out through the last, I guess, what, six or seven months, just so that it's all in one place because it goes deeper, too, with his music videos, his lyrics, he, you know, had what was that song called, like, Romantic Homicide. They had, I believe it was like matching tattoos, some weird, weird stuff. So if you want that deep dive, let me know either in the Q&A section on Spotify, the comment section on YouTube, or the review section on Apple. So that's the update we have there. I feel like there's been so much suspicion around this guy for so long. I can't believe there hasn't been an arrest yet. I agree with you. I think it's because it was so difficult, given the state of her remains, to determine anything. What do you, how do you, I mean,

Starting point is 00:15:32 yeah. And you obviously have to bring a lot of forensic experts in to figure out, okay, how do we back into this of like a time of death? How bad is the decomp? Then when they're dismembered, how, what was the cause of death? Like, and it doesn't even seem from what I, I've seen that that has been listed yet officially. I mean, manner of death, possibly. So it's been slow, but hopefully this asshole goes down if he's the one responsible, which I believe he is. Same. Speaking of assholes.

Starting point is 00:16:00 Speaking of assholes, some more movement in the Anna Kepner case. Okay. After months of feeling like there's been no movement in this case, there's finally some movement. And just as a quick recap for anybody that may have not been familiar with the story, Anna Kepner is an 18-year-old girl out of Titusville, Florida, who was murdered in November 2025 while aboard a carnival cruise ship on a family vacation with her father and stepmother, where she was sharing a cabin with her biological younger brother and also her 16-year-old stepbrother.

Starting point is 00:16:34 So Anna's death was ruled a homicide by asphyxiation, specifically a barhold. And the FBI had taken over the investigation almost immediately because it took place over international waters. And if you remember, in a few weeks ago, in headline highlights, we covered the story because the stepbrother was arrested and brought to court. And we were trying to figure out and see if he was going to be charged as a minor or as an adult. And because of the severity of the crime, it was really unsure. But everything has been sealed. And so we really have had no information. However, he has officially been charged as a minor with Anna's homicide. and an additional crime that has been redacted.

Starting point is 00:17:18 Now, there's some talk about this redacted crime and that it could potentially be sexually related. And the reason why there's talk about it possibly being a sexual crime is because it is redacted and because there was this rumored infatuation between the stepbrother and Anna and even Anna's ex-boyfriend had made a comment about some behavior that was inappropriate behavior on a FaceTime call that he witnessed. and because of that, there's just been a lot of talk from the start. And there's been some mixed feelings from both Anna's family and then how the biological family of the stepbrother has reacted to all of this. But to be clear, none of those advances were reciprocated on Anna's side.

Starting point is 00:18:01 And we're really unclear as to what happened on that cruise ship. What we were told was that the kids wanted to stay together and that there was an option for them to potentially stay in separate rooms. However, the stepson is the only person that was seen going in and out of that room the night of Anna's death and was reportedly the last person seen with her before she was found later by the cruise ship employee who came and found her buried underneath the mattress of her bed. And the only reason we know that he was charged in her death is because of separate filings going on in an ongoing custody battle between Anna's stepmom and her ex-husband. So in other words, the public is learning about these criminal charges because of filings from a totally different case, which is why so many details are being talked about online, and there are so few official receipts available to us. And in the same custody filing, we learned that the boy's biological father is helping him with his criminal defense. He told the family court judge that he's supporting his son and getting a lawyer and handling the homicide charge.

Starting point is 00:19:04 And this is in part because as soon as this all happened, Anna's family pushed to remove the boy from the home. So the biological father is feeling like the son isn't getting support, so he's pushing for that full custody. And Anna's family is going as far as to publicly say that they want the stepbrother buried with nails in his coffin. So as soon as this became public, it sparked major reaction, as you could imagine, because we have these two sides of the family's feuding. and now this boy is officially being charged in the murder. Some see this as a parent just doing what they can to protect their child, and others say it's pretty controversial and strange that they're doing all this to protect this boy with all these allegations against him.

Starting point is 00:19:48 So like I said before, the court filings are all sealed because the stepbrothers age, but that doesn't mean it's going to stay that way. The federal prosecutor could very well go to the judge and ask that it be moved to an adult court later on. And if that happens, most likely all of this will become much more public and the possible punishment could become much more severe due to the nature of the crime. But as of right now, there's no public filing showing they've done that. But legally, it is still an option. And maybe at that point, we'll learn also more about that redacted crime and the nature of it. So for now, that's where things stand. But as always, we'll keep you updated on that. But I think that's the biggest thing is it's

Starting point is 00:20:32 going to come down to where they move the case if they move the case because just like Aiden Fucci, which also happened in Florida, he ended up being tried as an adult. But if he is tried as a juvenile, they can only hold him. And I think you said this on the last update we had until he's 21 years old. Even if he's tried, though, as a juvenile and they move it into adult court, not charged as an adult, but like move it over to adult court, they still cannot, there's no option for life in prison without the possibility of parole. And there's also no option for the death penalty. I believe the max sentence, even if they move it to adult court, is life in prison with a review at 25 years. But if they don't move it to adult court and keep it there, he's going to be out at 21. And what?

Starting point is 00:21:17 He's 16? Yeah, I believe he's 17 now. So by the time this goes to trial, by the time trial's done, all of that, call it 19 years old. What, you're serving two years and then you get to walk? Yeah, I don't know. I feel like after. this new charge comes to light, it'll probably be, it'll be like a clear direction of where it will go. Because I can't imagine

Starting point is 00:21:37 murder and this additional charge. Like, what would be the reason they would continue to keep him in being charged as a minor? I don't know. And I wonder what that redacted charge could be. I mean, potentially, yeah, something with a sexual component.

Starting point is 00:21:52 The other thought was like, could it be like burglary? Like, did he steal something off of her person? I don't know. Like, but that wouldn't be redacted. I don't know. It's weird. It's just tricky since this is all going down with a custody hearing as well. So it's like the parents are already kind of at odds and then they've got this huge issue going on. I mean, I just hope he does not get a slap on the wrist, but based now on the fact that he's being charged as a minor, it makes me a bit concerned that, yeah, that it's, I hope he gets moved to adult court. But I guess we'll see. I don't know. We'll see. Today's episode is brought to you by Unreal. And I am obsessed with Unreal.

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Starting point is 00:26:21 her ad nauseum, it feels like, but she is the lady who allegedly killed her husband and then later wrote a children's book about grief, trying to capitalize on it and make a buck. I also released a deep dive on Corey Richens on Tuesday over on the 10 to Life podcast feed. In this episode, we outline all of it. I mean, the money hunger that Corey allegedly had, the fistfights with his family, the weird cryptic notes that she has been sending while waiting for trial, literally telling people what their testimony should be, which if that's not witness intimidation or witness tampering, I don't know what is. But we released that on two. Tuesday, go listen. It is on YouTube the same channel if you're watching this on YouTube, but if you're

Starting point is 00:27:03 listening to the podcast version of this, it is not in this podcast feed. You have to go search our second true crime podcast, which is 1010 to life. So go listen. I will also link it in the show notes. But my point is, her trial started last week. And I want to start breaking down some of the biggest key takeaway moments that happened during that first week. So when it first kicked off on February 23rd, the prosecutors opened by basically flat out saying that this case was not some sort of tragic accident. They told the jurors that they believed that Corey had poisoned her husband, Eric, with fentanyl. More specifically, she had laced his drink, his Moscow mule with fentanyl, and that she did it all for money. The state said that Corey was in major amounts of debt and that she murdered her husband knowing that she would inherit millions of dollars from his business,

Starting point is 00:27:52 also because she knew that she would get another $2 million from his life insurance policies. So they started bringing in testimony from the police and from the first responders who arrived on the scene that day, and the medical examiner's autopsy was also a part of this. And this was a very big deal, because she said that there was fentanyl in Eric's system and that it wasn't just a little amount. There was approximately five times the lethal amount. So it was also made very clear that the drug was elicit. it. It wasn't medical grade. It couldn't have been from any medications that were found in the home or

Starting point is 00:28:26 like a small dosage where something happens to get laced a tiny bit. Like, this was deliberate. I mean, five times a lethal amount. But the biggest bombshells came later in the week, and this is where some major stuff was dropped. A woman named Carmen, who used to be the Richens family housekeeper, ended up taking the stand. And this is kind of where things also went from theory to very specific, detailed allegations. She testified that Corey had asked her to buy drugs for her four different times, three times before Eric died, and one time after. Now at first, Carmen said that it was just pain pills, but then she said, Corey wanted something stronger. She said that Corey specifically even used the phrase, I want the Michael Jackson stuff. So prosecutors made it clear that they believe that that meant

Starting point is 00:29:13 fentanyl. So Carmen said that after each time that Corey asked her for these pills, she went and met up with somebody, bought approximately 15 to 20 pills, and it put them in a little plastic bag, and then she used money that Corey gave her to pay for them. Sometimes it was cash up front, sometimes she got paid back later, but it was facilitated by Corey. But here's something that made people pause a little bit. Carmen testified that she felt so uncomfortable having those pills that she buried them in a fire pit at a property that Corey owned, not at the main house, but at an investment property. She said that she didn't want to keep them on her. She didn't know what else to do with them. So she wanted to go there and she buried them. That was the best course of action, I guess, which I don't understand

Starting point is 00:29:56 that. Like, why not flush them? Why not dissolve them? Why not stomp on them? Crush them and then flush them or put them down the sink? Why would you bury them? Because then can't you just go dig them up later? Or can't somebody dig them up? Or God forbid, like a kid gets access to them? It just makes no sense to me. But what do I know? So prosecutors also, showed the jury a $1,300 check that was dated March 6th, 2022, and this check was written by Corey to Carmen. The memo line said that it was for, quote, construction cleaning, but Carmen testified that she didn't actually clean for that payment. So the state suggested that this check was actually connected to the purchasing of those pills. And then it got even more uncomfortable.

Starting point is 00:30:40 Carmen testified that after Eric died, she had called Corey and basically said, please tell me that those pills were not for him. And according to Carmen, Corey told her that Eric had died from a brain aneurism, not pills, not an overdose, which I don't know when exactly this call took place, but obviously it wasn't a brain aneurism. Maybe it was early enough on that Corey could get away with saying she thought that that was the cause, but feels a little telling to me. And that detail also stuck out, obviously, because jurors had already heard that Eric had died from a lethal level of fentanyl in his system. Now, this trial is still ongoing, and it's been happening all week this week, too.

Starting point is 00:31:19 So if you want me to keep doing these trial updates in headline highlights, absolutely let me know. I'm happy to jump on here and let you know everything we're hearing. I will say this too. Although I do personally, my opinion is that Corey is guilty, I do think that the defense is doing a pretty good job. But go listen to the deep dive that I put out on Tuesday so that you know all about the case, you know all about the money, the properties, the friends, everything that plays into this. And then that way, as we do these updates, you'll be fully in the know. But I am interested to know what you guys think about this case.

Starting point is 00:31:52 Do you believe that Corey is innocent? Do you think that she is guilty? I think she is a money-hungry person. That is my opinion. I think that she saw this as a quick payday. She was sick of her husband. She wanted all the money. I think then she exploited her own children by writing this children's book about grief,

Starting point is 00:32:09 saying how she helped her boys deal with the death of their father. She even was doing like a press tour with it going on morning talk shows. And it's just like, to do that, you got to be a real big fucking narcissist. I mean, it is unbelievable. That's what I was thinking as you're, I mean, I've thought this person was wild for a long time. But the only words that come to my mind are the audacity. No, honestly. But also, not that looks are everything because they're not.

Starting point is 00:32:36 I will say, karma has definitely slapped her in the face. because if you look at photos of her pre-arrest, she's beautiful. They look like this happy couple. It's a jump scare now when you see her in court. Yeah, it's worn on her. It has for sure worn on her, which good. But yeah, I can't imagine getting up and going on a press tour for a book.

Starting point is 00:32:55 Knowing that you're the one that killed your husband. Honestly, I really don't know how people like that function day to day. But there's a case I'm trying to think of, and I don't know why it's not coming to mind. There's some other case like that that was high profile. wasn't it, where it was like she or he committed the crime, but then went on documentaries and did interviews and tried to like elicit a ton of sympathy. What am I thinking of? I know exactly what you're talking about and I can't think of it. I bet you everybody's going to be like, Chombinay's dad. No, I'm just kidding. Because I know people still have like a lot of thoughts on that. I personally do not

Starting point is 00:33:31 believe that's what he's doing. But there was a case. If you guys know what I'm talking about, let me know in the comments where it's like, I mean, and I, and I, guess the argument could be made though even like Chris Watts on a much lower scale level when your wife goes missing and you're the one who did it and then you're doing these interviews on the front porch waiting for the safe return but I'm talking about a case where it went more like and then you're making a profit off of something and you're bringing your kids into it I feel like that's just crossing a line yeah it's sick yeah I mean Drew Peterson I guess because didn't remember he was doing all of those radio shows like win a date with Drew all of this stuff putting himself out there

Starting point is 00:34:06 being like, my wife left me, I need a new woman. And like, I know you put her in a barrel. Yeah. For me, it's just when kids are brought in. That's just... You're using your kids' grief of losing their father to make money. It is so sick. And reading them this book that you... I mean, it's... It is so freaking disgusting. I know. Speaking of disgusting moms. Speaking of the best moms on earth. Yeah. So this is the case about a North Carolina woman now age 62 named Michelle Hunley Smith, who disappeared back in December of 2001. At the time, she was a 38-year-old mother of three, and on December 9, 2001, told her family she was heading out to go Christmas shopping at a local Kmart in Martinsville, Virginia.

Starting point is 00:34:47 And she just never came home. Just like that, disappeared. Her husband reported her missing later that month, which I'll talk on a little bit later. And over the years, there were searches, there were tips that came in, check-ins on the case, but really no answers materialized. And so for 24 years, her family had no answers. At the time she disappeared, her kids were 19, 14, and 7 years old. So you can imagine this wasn't just this missing person's case.

Starting point is 00:35:16 This was a mother of three kids. So her whole family was searching for answers and desperate to know where she went and just nothing, living in this gray area of not knowing. Fast forward to February 26. Out of nowhere, investigators found new information about machine. that eventually did lead to her whereabouts. Authorities tracked it down and on February 20th, nearly 24 years after she vanished, law enforcement made contact with Michelle,

Starting point is 00:35:46 and she was alive. And according to official, she wasn't just alive, she was alive and well. Michelle told investigators she left back in 2001 because of ongoing domestic issues. However, authorities have said there are no prior police reports documenting domestic disputes or complaints at the time. the time of her disappearance. And now she's requesting that her current location not be shared publicly. But then another unexpected turn happened. Just days after Michelle was located, law enforcement arrested her.

Starting point is 00:36:18 But not for disappearing, not for fraud, or not actually anything related to leaving her family. She was arrested on a 2001 DWI warrant. According to records, in November of 2001, just weeks before she vanished, Michelle had been charged with driving while impaired, and she was scheduled to appear in court, but then never showed up because by then she was already missing and disappeared. So when she failed to appear, a warrant was issued, and that warrant had stayed active for all of these 24 years. So once authorities confirmed she was alive, they saw that outstanding warrant. And on February 25th, they took her into custody in North Carolina on that decades-old failure to appear tied to that DWI case. She later posted bond and was released that same day.

Starting point is 00:37:07 So officials say there isn't enough evidence to charge her with a crime related to the disappearance itself. And as of now, the only legal issue that she's facing is from that 2001 DWI case. And the daughter has now actually started speaking out a little bit more publicly. She was on a podcast and she actually mentioned that her mother and father used to argue quite a bit at home and that her mother had an addiction and outside. alcohol issue. And not only was she charged with that DWI just weeks before her disappearance, she was actually forced out of her job at a veterinary practice as a result of drinking on the job.

Starting point is 00:37:45 And her drinking actually had caused reportedly a lot of disputes at home between her husband Randy and herself and that they had even circumstances where they had cheated on each other previously. So who really knows the whole story of why she left that night in December, why she hasn't returned since. But as of right now, the daughter is rumored to have forgiven her mother but doesn't really want to have any other conversation about it. Most of their communication has been through a third party, which is one of Michelle's friends.

Starting point is 00:38:17 And at this time, she is still, to our knowledge, her whereabouts are unknown. It's interesting because when I first heard about this case, I was like, oh, mother found after 24 years, like it's a happy ending. But then you hear she doesn't want to be reunited with her kids. She doesn't want anybody knowing her location. So then you're like, okay, was she doing like a Sherry Pippini where she just wanted to like disassociate and be away from the kids and like not be a mother? But then you layer in this whole thing about the possible domestic disputes, the alcohol, and not that this excuses it or makes it right. But I certainly could see that if she lost her job, if she got a DWI, if she was cheating, being cheated on, if there was all these domestic issues where maybe she just carried.

Starting point is 00:39:00 such an intense amount of shame that she was just like, I want to just disappear and get out of this life or something like that. And now there's, again, that shame kind of magnified because she's been found and like you have to go back and face what you did. Again, no excuse for leaving your kids like that and making them wonder for over two decades if you're okay, where you're at, what happened. But I wonder, yeah, if there was something more seriously rooted in that rather than just her being like, I don't want to be a mom anymore. I'm disappearing. at Kmart and fuck all of you guys. I know.

Starting point is 00:39:32 I'm sure it was like the shame of the alcoholism and now she has these criminal charges and she lost her job. But I just don't know how you get away with that for so long. She must have been flying under the radar. Does she have a new family now? Do we know? There's no mention of that, but she was found living on the border of the Carolina. So it wasn't like she was very far.

Starting point is 00:39:51 Wow. That's sad. And that has got to be a lot for these kids. Could you imagine us her children? I know. like, be like, my mom willingly left us and let us wonder. But then like you have that relief of, oh, she's alive. She's okay. But then also like, well, why didn't she want me? Yeah. God, that's hard. That's really hard. Well, I know that this week was full of heavy cases,

Starting point is 00:40:13 guys. And actually, a lot of really crappy moms at that. So thank you guys so much for tuning in. As a reminder, if you entered the CrimeCon giveaway, take a look at the episode description so that you can see if you are the winner, but don't worry, we will do more of these in the future if you didn't win this one. And go listen to the Corey Deepdive from Tuesday. We also did a wild, wild case on this feed on Monday about a man who literally tried to murder his wife multiple times. It is so unbelievable. And I think there was like a total net worth involved of like $350 million. So just super insane. So go take a listen to both of those and let me know your thoughts. And until the next one, be nice.

Starting point is 00:40:54 Don't kill people. Don't poison anybody. Don't put anybody in your frunk. Don't disappear. Don't disappear. Unless you're like an ex-boyfriend, then go ahead, disappear. Bye. Bye.

Starting point is 00:41:05 See you. Don't want you. See you. I wouldn't want to be you. Yeah. And don't be a creepy brother. Ew. All right.

Starting point is 00:41:11 Until the next one, do all of that. And stay safe.

Serialously with Annie Elise - 373: Anna Kepner’s Killer Gets Slap on the Wrist?, D4vd is Going DOWN, & Kouri Richins is The Worst

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