Serialously with Annie Elise - 428: Social Media Labeling Patrick Clancy as Chris Watts 2.0 | Saying He Killed His Kids & Framed Lindsay

Starting point is 00:00:00 Patrick Clancy is trying to pull with Chris Watson. You're not going to tell me otherwise. It was their father, Patrick Clancy, who discovered his children's lifeless bodies. Lindsay Clancy is innocent, and Patrick Clancy is actually the one that committed the crime. Saying that Patrick Clancy is responsible for the killings of his children is absolutely ridiculous. You could just feel how the father in him was breaking. Patrick Clancy is looking an awful lot like Chris Watts lately.

Starting point is 00:00:27 Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialessly. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all new episode of Serialessly with me, your host, Annie Elyse. Now, for all of my YouTube watchers, you can see, this isn't the normal set. We are in a makeshift temporary area within the office because I'm doing a full set revamp with like new lighting, new equipment, all the things. So here I am coming to you from my conference room.

Starting point is 00:01:18 but here's the thing. I knew I needed to jump on here and talk with you guys about this subject matter. We've already talked about the Lindsay Clancy case together. And if you missed that, which there actually is a possibility that you did miss it because I put that episode on my other True Crime podcast feed, 10 to Life. That came out last, what was it? About a week or two weeks ago where I did a full deep dive into the case. But I'm sure so many of you are following the case yourselves or have heard about it. Maybe you're seeing it on social media. The trial's happening right now. And so basically, let me run you through what happened and why I'm here now again today to talk with you about new developments in this case. So first, we talked about the Lindsay Clancy case as a whole,

Starting point is 00:02:06 the allegations of postpartum psychosis, the fact that she killed her three children using exercise bans because she was allegedly experiencing postpartum psychosis, her husband Patrick, who stood by her, advocated for her after she was arrested, then went on to get remarried and have a family of his own, and now she's on trial. So we talked about the backstory of everything. Then started talking through headline highlights, which is my Thursday episode, about the trial updates. And what really was interesting is starting in trial week one, I feel like people started turning against Patrick, not in a huge way, but in a way of just saying this guy, you know, he failed his wife, the doctors failed her. I can't believe he's already moved on. He has a new

Starting point is 00:02:56 family. There were allegations that he had been cheating on her with his now wife. And people were just kind of calling him out as an overall dirt bag, bad guy. And really feeling some empathy for Lindsay, not only because of the postpartum psychosis and postpartum depression element to everything, but because she just had this seemingly unreliable trash bag of a husband. And I'm just kind of, you know, kind of saying that loosely. Then last week, everyone started turning against him even more. And I talked a little bit about this last week in headline highlights, but I started noticing at the very beginning of the week that the tide was turning against Patrick, not just any more of him being the deadbeat husband or the asshole who moved on too early, the guy who

Starting point is 00:03:48 went on trips while his wife was in inpatient treatment, but started turning on him in a way of saying, Lindsay didn't even kill her three children. Patrick did. He framed Lindsay for this entire thing. Now, I'll be honest with you. When I first saw that, which was like, gosh, when we was that probably like a week ago, maybe a little longer. It was like a couple of people saying it, not that many. And in my mind, I was like, oh, you know, these are the conspiracy theorists. They're coming out. They're trying to make this something different than what it really is, but nobody's going to take this seriously. Within a matter of 48 hours, when I tell you, hundreds of thousands of people were now sharing that same sentiment, I was floored. I couldn't even

Starting point is 00:04:35 believe what I was seeing. But then they started citing a lot of the reasons for why they believe that, such as the crime scene, not aligning with Lindsay doing this herself, her DNA, not being on any of the murder weapons, the pills that she consumed, being crushed, therefore allegedly snuck in to her food or drink. Change of wardrobe, a scene on Patrick in CVS when he was out of the house, when these murders occurred. So as I was going through everything, and again, I know we talked about this on Thursday a little bit, I started asking myself, like, well, I wasn't asking myself. I was telling myself, I was like, a lot of these things seem to be explainable,

Starting point is 00:05:22 either a coincidence or could be explained away. Personally, the CVS footage where people are calling out that he changed his shoes, they look like the same shoes to me. I think it could have just been the camera angle or the lighting or whatever it may be. but then more and more things started coming up. And I want to say this right now, okay, first and foremost, I still believe in my heart that Lindsay Clancy did this. She also has signed an admission of guilt in court saying that she did this. And it's my belief that over the last three years, since this horrific triple murder happened, if she had any sort of doubt or question in her mind that she is the one,

Starting point is 00:06:00 that she was the one responsible, her defense team would have worked that up. And she wouldn't have signed an admission of guilt and now be on trial, which the trial isn't to determine if she is guilty or innocent. It's to determine was she legally insane at the time of these murders or was this, you know, premeditated, can she be held accountable to the full extent? So my point is that there was enough conversation out there. So much so that I did headline highlights last week, touched on it a little bit. I also did an in-prompt to live over on Patreon because sometimes I do this. If you're in Patreon, you know that. I'll be at my house and breaking news will happen and I'll just jump on a live stream from there and talk with you guys about it.

Starting point is 00:06:38 And still, the amount of people who were giving credence to this and saying, no, Patrick is responsible, comparing Patrick to Chris Watts. Now, the comparison with that and the thought behind that is that because Chris Watts had a mistress and seemingly wanted to start this brand new shiny family with her, Nicole Cassinger, that that was also what Patrick Clancy wanted. He already was seeing his now wife. He wanted a fresh start. His wife was a drag because she was experiencing postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis. And he leveraged that illness to frame her to where he could execute this master plan and then move on with his life and also get a huge financial benefit to it as well because he's suing some of the doctors, the drug companies, things like that. I don't believe

Starting point is 00:07:31 it to be true. I believe Lindsay is responsible. as I said. But if you heard my original deep dive, I will link it here for you too. If you heard my original deep dive, you also know that I believe she was another victim of this entire thing. I think she was failed by her medical team, her husband, doctors, just everybody. And it's a tragedy. I also shared my own personal experience related to the topic. So you can go back and listen to that episode if you haven't listened to it yet. But the reason I wanted to do today's episode is because, as I said, there are enough people out there who truly believe that this is true and that Patrick is responsible that I want to just share with you why. I want to share the theories that they're citing,

Starting point is 00:08:18 the inconsistencies, because the truth is there are some inconsistencies that don't really make sense. And again, the truth of it is, too, there wasn't ever a full investigation done at the house, which is also the crime scene, because it seemed pretty cut and dry. Lindsay did this. And so there wasn't any sort of, you know, digital footprint examined. There wasn't any look into patterns, phone pings, anything like that because there wouldn't have been because this wasn't a typical murder investigation. So again, sorry, I kind of, I'm getting ahead of myself here. But my purpose in today's episode is because I want to put the question out to you.

Starting point is 00:08:57 I'm going to let you know everything that people are saying that make them suggest that Patrick is the one responsible. And I'm curious then to know what you think. Do you think these are just a ton of red herrings? Or do you think that there is something deeper here going on? I've already told you where I sit with this. It's no secret. However, I will say this. I am the first one where if something came out major and it showed that Patrick was in fact responsible. I'll be the first one to acknowledge it and be like, holy shit, I was wrong. I was so wrong. I missed the mark. I should have gotten caught up in the conspiracy of it all. I don't see that happening. But again, if it does, I'll be the first one to jump back up on here and tell you guys, you know, hey, I was wrong.

Starting point is 00:09:40 But I just want to know what you believe once I outline this for you. Because as I said, it's, it's some of this is a fair argument. Okay. There are some things that make you kind of wonder like, what the heck really is going on here. So what I have here in front of me, I have my nose of, again, all of the different theories and I have them all bucketed into separate buckets, the crime scene, the injuries, the alleged affair, the aftermath, things like that to where we can really talk about each bucket as a whole as we're going through. So this is kind of a follow-up to a case that I assume, if you're listening, you already know the nuts and bolts about it. But again, take a moment. If you are not familiar with that case, pause this episode,

Starting point is 00:10:25 go back, listen to the deep dive from two weeks ago. I also will link it in the show notes so that you get fully caught up. But I also think you probably have been seeing this on your feed in your social media because the trial is happening right now. Okay, so let's talk about the crime scene. The first thing that people are pointing to is that Lindsay Clancy did not speak with first responders at the crime scene. That was because she was found unresponsive after we know she jumped out, which some people are saying she was pushed out of a second story window. This was an attempt to take her own life. She failed. She had superficial cuts. but she also threw herself out of this window,

Starting point is 00:11:03 and she is now paralyzed from the waist down. However, here's where people are citing. She didn't speak with first responders because she was unresponsive. However, she did speak to Patrick long enough to tell him that the children were in the basement. Emergency personnel also testified that she was breathing, but that she was unable to communicate, just lying there completely in mobile in the backyard,

Starting point is 00:11:28 requiring a C-spine collar and a lestine collar and a long board due to the severe spinal injuries, which if you know what that is, that's like kind of not like a gurney, but you know, it's the board that they put you on, the big like clasp around your neck and it goes to your back. And so it was an awful condition. Paramedics also said that the only sounds that she made were occasional screams as she was repeatedly trying to remove her oxygen mask while being prepared for transport. And look, she went out of a second story window. That fall, it caused significant injuries, injuries that ultimately left her paralyzed from the waist down, as I said. However, going back to why this is such a big issue and a point of conversation right now,

Starting point is 00:12:09 Patrick had recalled finding Lindsay severely injured outside of their home after this fall, and when he asked her what happened, according to him, she said, I tried to kill myself. Patrick then asked her as a follow-up question, where are the children? And she reportedly responded that they were in the basement. So people are curious, you know, make this make sense. How was she well enough to communicate to him what her intention was to try to take her own life and then also tell him where the children were? But then within moments, she's completely unresponsive.

Starting point is 00:12:43 She just has the occasional screams. She's not communicating. And it, you know, she kind of goes dark in that sense. And I'm going to play devil's advocate here as we go through because I think this could be explained. I think that perhaps the shock had either set in immediately or not set in immediately after she went out the window and that she still could speak a little bit. And then her body either went into shock or because she wasn't shocked before,

Starting point is 00:13:09 she wasn't in as much pain, whatever, vice versa. But to where those first few moments were not, I don't want to say not as critical, but like not as restrictive, if that makes sense to where she was then able to communicate and then she wasn't. I think it's possible. However, another piece of that is that when she arrived at South Shore Hospital's emergency department on January 24th, 2023, which very cold time in Massachusetts, this was after her 20-foot fall, her core body temperature was 82.1 degree Fahrenheit, which that indicates severe hypothermia. Emergency doctor, Dr. Kelly McDonoghue, and trauma surgeon Dr. Christina

Starting point is 00:13:50 Carpio both testified about her condition. And during the trial, the defense attorney argued that the prolonged exposure to the cold may have slowed her circulation, affecting the amount of bleeding from the superficial cuts to from her wrists and her neck. However, the doubt that comes in with this theory is that based on, if you go back to the Karen Reid case, and again, this is one I think probably most of you are familiar with, John O'Keefe, Karen Reed's then-boyfriend, who unfortunately passed away, his body temperature was recorded at 80 degrees. when he was left in the snow for that prolonged period of time, hours longer than Lindsay was officially outside. So people are saying if she was only outside for 30 minutes, how did her body temperature drop so drastically to 82 degrees when John O'Keefe was literally buried in the snow for hours and his only dropped to 80? I'm not a doctor, obviously, and I don't know shit about temperatures, but I will say this. I did talk to some medical experts because I was curious about

Starting point is 00:14:54 this when I heard it. And apparently, when your body suffers such severe trauma, broken bones, a traumatic event, PTSD, internal injuries, organ injuries, whatever it may be, it is possible that your core body temperature rapidly declines. It's not unheard of. It's not necessarily a slow burn. So again, playing devil's advocate here, that certainly could happen, people are pointing to something more nefarious here. Talking to her body temperature and her injuries and all of that, let's talk about this. The thyroid injury. Lindsay had a crushed thyroid amongst her other injuries, the broken bones, her paralysis from the waist down. She also had a crushed thyroid injury. So this theory now stems from the ideology that that thyroid is located

Starting point is 00:15:43 in the front of the neck, which that could indicate a potential strangling attempt, or some sort of struggle while placing something around her neck, which is interesting when you take into consideration that the children were murdered by method via strangulation with exercise bands. So once again, people are saying she had a crushed thyroid. She must have been strangled before. He may have tried to use one of those exercise bands on her, but he thought it worked, but she just passed out, and then he threw out the window, and it didn't work, and she was still alive, and that's why she has the crushed thyroid. Possible.

Starting point is 00:16:21 Absolutely possible. Playing devil's advocate. I think that falling out of a second story window and taking a 20-foot fall, who knows what kind of injuries are going to occur. Again, I'm not an expert. I don't know if you can suffer a crushed thyroid from that or if perhaps she tried to,

Starting point is 00:16:41 and I'm not trying to get graphic here, but maybe she did try to hang herself or used exercise bans on herself as she allegedly had used them on her children, and it didn't work, and that's what made her hurl, does it make the choice to hurl herself out of the second story window possible? I don't know. There's another thing that kind of folds into this before I move on to the other aspects,

Starting point is 00:17:01 is the medication that was in Lindsay's system. It's no secret that she was over-prescribed lots of medication and that she was on a mixture of like a very crazy cocktail of strong-ass prescriptions that would not. no doubt affect her mental state. No doubt in my mind. However, there were crushed pills that were found on the nightstand in her room next to a cup that said, quote, because kids. Now, the general thought is that Lindsay had crushed the pills up before ingesting them herself and before self-harming. However, other people say, if she was trying to self-harm and take the medication, she would have just popped the pills regularly. There would be no need to crush them up. So they believe that Patrick

Starting point is 00:17:44 is the one who crushed them up, a la Corey Richens, and then put them in Lindsay's drink or food or whatever to stage some sort of overdose or to impair her to such an extent that she was in a delusional state. Some also believe that the pills were crushed and potentially given to the children before they were killed so that they were not fully coherent at the time in which they were killed, which personally one can be.

Starting point is 00:18:14 only hope that that's the case and that they were not aware of what was happening to them at the hands of their own mother, somebody who they, you know, loved and felt would always protect them. I don't know. But people suggest that they were crushed because Patrick was the one crushing them to feed them to Lindsay. You guys know that I'm constantly juggling work, recordings, getting the kids fed, drop-offs, all of that. So anything that actually makes weeknight dinners easier, that is a huge win in my book. That's honestly why I've been using R-Playing. so much lately. Now the always pan, I understand the hype now. I saw it all over TikTok. I get the hype now. It's the one that I reach for almost every single day because I can make breakfast for it in the

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Starting point is 00:21:50 slash a.E. 50 off and use code AE50 off and one free breakfast item per box for one year while supplies last until October 31st, 2026. That's code AE50 off at factor meals.com, AE50 off at factor meals.com. See website for details. Now let's also talk about the nanny situation, okay? Elaine Rossi, the family's former part-time nanny, testified during the trial, and she testified that in the months leading up to the killings, Lindsay had lost a significant amount of weight, also that she struggled to sleep and that she frequently spoke about her postpartum mental health. However, despite those concerns, the nanny told the jurors during this trial that she never

Starting point is 00:22:41 believed that Lindsay was a danger to herself or a danger to her children. She described her as a wonderful mom. She said she loved her. She said that Lindsay loved her kids and that she was deeply concerned for their safety, making sure that they were eating well, sleeping well, always safe. And she also mentioned that she worked about 12 hours a week at the time working for this family. She was looking after their son Callan. And once Lindsay returned to work, she would strictly be taking care of Callan, sometimes Cora and Dawson, indicating that Elaine was mostly hired to assist Patrick, not Lindsay. So this is where people, once again, are kind of like, okay, I've seen, and I've seen different arguments here. I've seen some people saying, okay, she had a nanny,

Starting point is 00:23:26 she had all the resources, why was she suffering? Let me start by saying this. That is the most ignorant thing I think I've ever heard. It doesn't matter how much your resources, your help, your wealth, anything like that, mental illness and postpartum psychosis, it does not discriminate. It's not going to pick and choose the best victims to attack. So that's one piece of it. However, when she had said that she worked primarily looking after Cal and that once Lindsay returned to work, she would only be taking care of Cal, sometimes Corrin Dawson, it appeared that she was mostly going to be helping Patrick out because Lindsay would be back at work.

Starting point is 00:24:05 And not that that means anything necessarily, but it's one more thing that I think people are trying to use to bolster their argument. Now let's talk about, I'm going to get into the DNA of it all in a minute. Let's just take a pause on that. Here's another thing that is interesting. While hospitalized at the women's hospital and while Lindsay was getting care on January 29, 2023 after the murders, Lindsay requested to change her health care proxy from her husband Patrick to her parents. That was an interesting move because the request led to a psychiatric evaluation to determine whether or not she had the mental capacity and ability to make that decision independently. A psychiatrist testified that Lindsay had initially experienced ICU delirium and that there was some confusion after her spinal surgery, but as that cleared, she consistently maintained her decision that she wanted to change.

Starting point is 00:25:03 her health care proxy. It wasn't some delusional state. It wasn't something where she wasn't of sound mind. She was consistent. She wanted to make this change. She also said that Lindsay was able to explain her reasoning for wanting this change, telling the doctors that she felt that her parents were supportive and that they would have her best interests in mind. And that's interesting, because why wouldn't you think that your husband and father of your children would have your best interest in mind? unless of course, here I am. I'm coming back in to play devil's advocate. At that point, it's so fresh. It's just days after the murders. I could see a world in which she's lying there, paralyzed, realizing what had happened, and saying, he's never going to forgive me. I took his children away from him. He hates me. If there's any life-saving measures for me, he's not going to take them and not necessarily realizing yet or being notified yet that he was in fact standing by herself. in those early weeks and months. So I could see both sides of it.

Starting point is 00:26:05 I see why she wanted to change to her parents because they would have her best interest in mind, no matter what, she's their daughter. But I could also see where people are like, why would she be changing it away from Patrick unless she was fearful of him, unless she didn't trust him? I see both sides of the argument there.

Starting point is 00:26:21 So an ICU nurse named Megan testified that the evaluation for Lindsay took place on January 29th and January 30th. There was a very small team present, including medical staff. There was a social worker, psychiatrist, professionals, and Lindsay's defense attorney. So during the trial, both of these sides examined the decision as part of the broader question of Lindsay's mental state and her cognitive ability to make decisions following this horrific tragedy. So again, I think there can be an argument made for both sides. Now, I want to go back up to, let's go into, let's actually go into,

Starting point is 00:26:59 the 911 call, okay, and the phone not working. This is a theory that stems from Patrick's testimony himself when he was asked about the delay in the 911 calls. According to Patrick, his phone was toggling between Wi-Fi calls and regular calls, creating a delay in connection to the dispatch. And at one point, he said that he almost called out for neighbors to help, but that he eventually got through. So the theory here is that the delay in the 911 calls was because he was waiting for Lindsay to succumb to her injuries or because he wanted to make sure that the drugs had hit her and that she was going to be in a delusional state and wouldn't remember and all of these things. But again, on the flip side of that, you could also easily argue that it's just as what Patrick explained, that his phone was going back and forth between Wi-Fi calls, regular calls, there was a delay that, yeah, I was going to call out.

Starting point is 00:27:54 to a neighbor for help, but then it started working. My call went through. It's tough because while a lot of these things are compelling, they're not concrete in saying, you know, that is enough of a hard line and hard evidence to indicate somebody's guilt. Although I'll be the first to say, generally when I cover cases, if there are this many inconsistencies, my saying is where there's smoke, there's fire. I don't necessarily believe that, though, in this case. But here's where we do get into, well, Actually, before I get to the DNA, let's talk about the footage, okay? Because this has been something that a lot of people are dissecting out there on the internet. The infamous restaurant and CVS footage.

Starting point is 00:28:32 As we know, Lindsay had sent Patrick out to run some errands that evening when she then executed the horrific murders on her children. However, a lot of the online speculation now has been focused on Patrick's movements. His movements from the restaurant, CVS, all of these things, because in images, From the CCTV footage, people share what they believe to be him wearing different shoes, that he was wearing boots when he picked up the takeout at the restaurant, and that he was then wearing sneakers inside the CVS, saying he changed his shoes because he noticed there was blood on them from when he made those cuts on Lindsay's body, and he had to change.

Starting point is 00:29:14 They also point to a sweater change, a jacket change, which I think, again, it's winter in Massachusetts. It's cold as hell. I understand why you would maybe be layered at a certain point and not layered or if you have an extra pair of shoes in your car and your shoes get sloshy with snow who knows um but also like I said the shoes kind of look the same to me in both of the images I don't think it's overly compelling at least not to me it looks like it could just be a different angle a different lens a flash something like that however in some of the images I mean I guess I'll make the argument they do look a little bit different but again, they are likely the same shoe, just different video quality.

Starting point is 00:29:52 But a lot of people point to this as him trying to cover things up, trying to change, try to get rid of evidence and get rid of clothing. Now, another piece of this that I would say out of all of the theories probably is the most compelling one, it comes down to the DNA. And I should say the lack of DNA, okay? Because Patrick's DNA was identified as a potential contributor on both exercises. bands that were used in the killings. Court testimony and stipulations explained that because Patrick is the one who removed the bands from the children's necks after discovering them that his DNA was transferred

Starting point is 00:30:29 to the bands and therefore was also, you know, read through as evidence. Testing found DNA from all five family members on the blue band, while the yellow band contained a mixture consistent with Patrick, Callan, and Dawson. Not Lindsay. So people are saying, asking, I should say, if her DNA wasn't found on the murder weapon, how was that possible? And how is she being held responsible for this? The forensic analyst explained that interpreting the DNA mixtures was very complicated because the individuals involved were close biological relatives who, of course, as we know, share significant genetic similarities. And although Patrick, Callan, and Dawson were all considered possible contributors to the yellow band sample, the results could not confirm that all three were present

Starting point is 00:31:17 in the specific mixture that was tested. Both sides agreed to the DNA findings, though, through a court stipulation, and the defense also does not dispute that Patrick's DNA was present due to his efforts to remove those bands and help the children. I also think, if you're familiar with exercise bands,

Starting point is 00:31:34 they're rubbery, they're stretchy, it's possible. And like, look, I know fingerprints can be detected even partials on so many different surfaces, but I can't help but wonder if on these rubber-type bands when you're stretching them, if your finger is sliding, if it's making an impression to where you're not going to get a clean

Starting point is 00:31:51 pickup of a print. But if you're slowly then picking them, like taking the exercise band apart, and again, I don't want to be too graphic here, but untying it, it's more of a print that would go in rather than like how you palm one normally, if that makes sense. You palm and like pull it tight. And again, I apologize if that's illustrating what happened too graphically. But this is, again, one of the more, not concrete, but one of the more, compelling theories out there as to why people are asking his DNA was on it hers wasn't make that

Starting point is 00:32:23 make sense you know so then it gets into motive okay like why would he do this if patrick did try to annihilate his entire family tried to kill lindsay but it didn't work so now he's trying to frame her why would he even try to do that what would make him do that well let's talk about new york for a second During cross-examination, Patrick testified that while he was in New York for two nights, Lindsay had remained home alone, caring for all three of the children. He also said that Lindsay appeared to be doing much better in November 2022, which was just a couple of months before the killings, although her anxiety and depression increased after his return from New York.

Starting point is 00:33:05 And that's really important, okay? So defense attorney for Lindsay argued that if Lindsay had been planning to harm the children, she would have had plenty of opportunities earlier, including during that two-day New York trip that Patrick took or the other many times that Patrick left her alone. And Patrick agreed that in theory this was possible. She did have plenty of other opportunities, really supporting the defense's argument

Starting point is 00:33:28 that the killings were a result of a sudden psychiatric crisis rather than this premeditated long-term plan. But this rolls into the next theory about New York, where people believe that his trip to New York was actually the catalyst in what made Lindsay spiral. Because many people believe that Patrick was not in New York for business reasons, but he was there for pleasure. There is a lot of speculation about when he met his current wife and that there may be some

Starting point is 00:33:59 overlap. We also know that she did live in New York at the time. He moved to New York. It was between four and six months after the murders. And, you know, we know he married her. So the natural question is, were his trips to New York prior to the deaths to see her, to have an affair, to be a shit husband? Possible. But cheating doesn't necessarily make you a murderer. And there's no proof that he was having an affair. You know, we're all trying to build healthier habits, drinking more water, getting in our steps, taking our vitamins.

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Starting point is 00:37:20 how quickly he remarried, how quickly he's having another child, and not for nothing, that his new wife is literally a dead ringer for Lindsay. Looks like her doppelganger through and through to a T. So people are saying, oh, he acted like the devoted, dedicated. yet distraught husband when all of this happened standing by Lindsay being a hero in that sense being like oh my gosh she's standing by her he is being so forgiving and he you know wants her to recover all these things what a gem of a human being well now that narrative is being called into question with people asking themselves or asking the public i should say was that all a show

Starting point is 00:38:03 was that because he wanted to play the doting husband because he was moving on. He was going to move on. He was going to take his life into his own hands. This was all at his hands, this whole disaster and tragedy. I don't know. There's also a handful of users on social media who believe that Patrick may have had his then-girlfriend, now wife at the time, make the calls to CVS and to pick up dinner. Now, I don't really think that that happened. I mean, it could have, but I think that that also could be very easily debunked with phone records and there were phones or searches as we know on Lindsay's phone so we can't roll that out as well but people are saying oh she's the one that called they hatch this plan together very Nicole Kessinger Chris Watts feeling I think that's a stretch

Starting point is 00:38:51 personally I don't believe it but I know the internet loves a good conspiracy and they love to make things more salacious than they are which like I said at the beginning of this episode if This proves to come out that Patrick did orchestrate this entire thing. And it was like almost the perfect crime until the internet got involved and started asking the questions. It will be better than any true crime novel out there, better than Verity, gone girl, girl on the train. But that's the thing I think people are getting swept up in, the fiction of it all that we have seen out there in the true crime space, not the nonfiction reality that these people are living in. And I think that it's good to ask questions, but sometimes I think it also can be incredibly dangerous and reckless. And that's why I'm trying to just kind of share with you these theories

Starting point is 00:39:39 and put it onto you as far as like, what do you think the truth is. But I think a lot of it can be debunked, as I said, through phone records. However, going back to that initial thing, there was never a thorough investigation done at the crime scene because there was no need. So no other potential suspects were looked into. Not a ton of evidence was collected. Phone records. surely weren't combed through. I mean, yes, in the sense of Google searches, journal entries, notes, phone calls, but not where's the phone pinging? Where's this?

Starting point is 00:40:10 Where is that? Which kind of leads me to another theory with the Apple Watch that people are talking about. Lindsay's Apple Watch was found in the bedroom. However, people are asking, okay, well, she was going to, you know, make these superficial cuts, which were not intended to be superficial. But if she was going to make these cuts on her body and throw herself out the window, why would she take time to take her watch off and put it down? I think there's a few explanations for that. I think it's you remove a watch to get a good cut on your arm, right? Or you're taking off your

Starting point is 00:40:41 personal effects and leaving them behind. I think there's explanations for that. But a lot of people are suggesting that it's because Patrick used her Apple Watch to text himself as Lindsay regarding the restaurant, the CVS, and all of these things to help build that timeline, more and kind of in a callback to what we talked about earlier with her core body temperature. The reason people have a question, too, of how her body temperature dropped that low in just 30 minutes, the allegation with that is that she had been attempted to have been killed much earlier before the kids even. And that's why it dropped so much. So he did that, killed the children, then took the Apple Watch, was posing as Lindsay texting himself, left it on the thing again.

Starting point is 00:41:29 Pretty grandiose, if you ask me. I don't believe that, but this is what the internet is running with. There's another Google search, too, that I want to talk about where it was a Google search of, can you change a sociopath? So prosecutors had pointed to Lindsay's phone search history, including searches about whether a person could change, whether they could be treated as a sociopath, and they looked at this as evidence of possible planning before the killings. The defense, though, argue that the searches occurred during a period of severe mental decline that was caused by postpartum psychosis, also sleep deprivation and the mixture of all of these medications. Now, Patrick was not the person who made the search. There is absolutely no evidence suggesting

Starting point is 00:42:15 that it was directed at him either. However, people say that it's highly suspicious that those thoughts were occurring in the midst of all of this, alleging that if Lindsay were Googling, can you change a sociopath or, you know, can a sociopath change? That rather than her making that search about herself, thinking that she was a sociopath because of what this mental illness was doing to her, that she was searching that because Patrick was a sociopath, that she knew about the affair, that he was evil, that she thought he was a sociopath, like, can you change a sociopath? So again, it's like, depending on how you want to interpret it, it could go either way. You could either say, yeah, that is a weird search. I think it was directed towards Patrick. Or you could say,

Starting point is 00:42:59 no, I think she was searching it on herself, like being like, I feel like a sociopath. Does that change? Like, what, what are these thoughts? And like trying to make sense of it. There also is some talk about the bed that was moved in the bedroom and how it was like shifted over. And I don't want to get too much into that because I don't think it's really, I don't think there's that much credibility in that either. But I want to throw it out there. Now, as for, again, not only the motive, but the comparison of Patrick Clancy to Chris Watts, as we know, and if you don't know, I don't even know what to tell you, I will link the episode because I've done so many deep dives not only on Chris Watts, but on Nicole Cassinger,

Starting point is 00:43:39 all the things, which if you want a fresh deep dive into Nicole Cassinger, let me know, because I've been following updates with that woman for years and years and years, because in my heart, I do believe she was involved. but anyway, if you know that case, Chris Watts initially attempted to shift the blame for the deaths of his daughters to his wife, Shanan Watts. He created this whole fake storyline during the police interviews saying that Shanan is the one who killed the children. And that because he went into a blind rage, he then started strangling Shanan. And it was because he was so distraught over what she did to her kids. It really happened that whole thing after investigators had already brought up the possibility that Shanan could have harmed.

Starting point is 00:44:19 the children, then he kind of rolled with it. It was almost like they were spoon-feeding him a possible story to see if he would take the bait. And he did, like the complete moron he is. And so he claimed that he saw her attacking their daughter Celeste, and then he killed Shanan in a moment of rage. Investigators later, though, said that Chris Watts kind of just like went with that scenario, that made-up scenario, all to protect himself. He also staged parts of the home to make it appear that Shanan had left voluntarily, including removing her wedding ring, leaving it on the counter and, you know, making those very cringy public pleas for his missing family to return. So once again, kind of how the wedding ring was left behind, the Apple Watch was left

Starting point is 00:45:01 behind. As we know, the story fell apart as the investigator uncovered evidence that completely contradicted his claims and eventually he pled guilty to not only killing Shanan, but also his two daughters, Bella and Cece. And he later provided details of what actually happened, the truth of what happened and where he disposed of their bodies to the investigators. However, similar to what people are alleging here, which again, there is no proof that Patrick Clancy was having an affair. However, Watts was having an affair with Nicole Cassinger at the time of the murders. And it seems like the motive in the Chris Watts case was that he did want to start this new life, this new family, everything with Nicole. Remember, she was Googling wedding dresses.

Starting point is 00:45:44 she like had downloaded tips on how to take anal. Like it was weird. And again, deep dives out there, let me know if you want a new one because there is so much lore with Nicole Kessinger. But people are bringing those comparisons together to say, oh, it was another man like Chris who didn't want to go the hard route, which really isn't the hard route of just getting a divorce. He wanted to start over, clean slate, fresh start,

Starting point is 00:46:11 and annihilate his whole family. But when Lindsay survived, that was unproductive, an unproductive variable. So then in that moment, he had to switch gears and frame her. There's also been some conversation about how Lindsay had said she heard voices, that the voices she was hearing weren't voices in her head, but it was Patrick's voice that she was hearing as he was executing this whole thing. So here's where I stand. And really quick, actually, before I move on,

Starting point is 00:46:41 Let me just say this. August 13th, it marks eight years since Shanan, Cecee, Bella, and unborn baby Nico were killed by Chris Watts. So it's been a while. But as you know, people are still making comparisons left and right with Chris Watts. So here's where I'm at. I think that a lot of these theories are interesting. And I think it is fair to ask the question, to be concerned and to say, this doesn't really make sense. Let's talk about it. It's not enough for me to sway my thoughts on this case, I still believe in my heart of hearts that Lindsay did this and that she was a victim of postpartum psychosis. I also think that's why she signed an admission of guilt in court, why her story hasn't wavered in three years. And look, to be fair, it is possible that she was so

Starting point is 00:47:26 heavily medicated at the time that this happened that she doesn't have any memory of what happened and that she woke up and assumed that she did all of this because she already had previous ideations of it and that she just went with that. But I would imagine that if there was even one seed of doubt that over the last three years her defense attorney would have run with that. That's my opinion. And I don't think there's a world in which while this trial is still going on, even with the defense attorney, I'm sure, seeing everything on social media, nobody's going to switch anything. They're not going to try to change it and now blame Patrick for it. But of course, people are going to say he got away with the perfect murders and that he now has his new shiny family

Starting point is 00:48:06 that he wanted. I don't think that is the case here. I think that this is what it is at face value. Occam's razor, you know, the most likely scenario is usually the scenario. I think she was suffering. I think she had a psychotic break and killed her children, tried to take her own life. It didn't work. And now she's on trial to determine if she was legally insane at the time. And I think as for Patrick moving on, I think he just wanted to get on with his life. He made some really wonderful statements in the beginning in support of Lindsay and standing by her. And standing by her, and he did the marathon where he wore items from his children during that marathon as I think it was supposed to be cathartic for him. And yeah, maybe it is too soon that he moved on. But again,

Starting point is 00:48:51 who's to dictate how people grieve and how they move on with their life? Is it a little weird that she is kind of a dead ring or doppelganger for Lindsay? Yeah, it's a little uncomfy. But I also think that I, you know, I've seen that happen in other cases too where people have lost a spouse. And they gravitate back to it unknowingly even because it's some sort of level of comfort. So I wanted to just kind of throw all of this out to you and see what you guys think. And maybe at the time that this episode releases, there will be more information that has come out that creates new theories, new perspectives, new points of view. And I'll do a follow up if you want, or probably we'll bake it into headline highlights. But as of right now, my thought on this case is unchanged. I hope that

Starting point is 00:49:37 Lindsay gets the help that she needs, being in that courtroom too and having to hear those 911 calls and see her children's autopsy photos and hear about the first responders trying to save her children, that cannot have been easy. And I'm not saying she gets a free pass. I think that regardless of the mental illness, she needs to be held accountable and, you know, three children were killed. And so that cannot just go, you know, swept under the rug. But I also do think that she was another victim in all of this because she was failed by her doctors, her husband, and just the health care system in general. And obviously through her journal entries, her most interpersonal thoughts expressing the fear and the intrusive thoughts, like she was scared. She knew something

Starting point is 00:50:26 was wrong and she was actively trying to get treatment and get help and was it failed and put on a cocktail of very dangerous drugs. So, curious to know what you think with all this. Also, are there any other theories that maybe you have developed through following the trial that you want to share? Let me know in the comment section. It's a tragedy for every single person involved, no matter what lens you look through. And so I just continue to pray over that entire family because it's, it's unimaginable regardless where you sit on this, what part of the family you're in. It's just devastating. All right, guys, that is it for today. Thank you for tuning into another episode. I will be back with you tomorrow as a

Starting point is 00:51:05 matter of fact on my second true crime podcast feed 10 to life one zero two life brand new episodes every single tuesday so go listen over there and then i'll be back with you on this feed on thursday with headline highlights where we talk about everything that's going on this week in the true crime world so thank you so much for listening let me know your thoughts everybody don't fight in the comments be respectful and we'll see where this goes all right guys thanks again and until the next one be nice don't kill people just get a divorce and protect your children. All right.

Starting point is 00:51:40 Bye.

Serialously with Annie Elise - 428: Social Media Labeling Patrick Clancy as Chris Watts 2.0 | Saying He Killed His Kids & Framed Lindsay

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