Serialously with Annie Elise - 86: Family Annihilator: Worse Than Chris Watts?

Episode Date: November 5, 2023

Annie is uncovering one of the most grotesque and truly evil cases involving a family road trip from hell. The level of depravity and complete and utter lack of care for human life combined with his victims, has led some people to believe he is actually worse than Chris Watts. This case was originally published on her YouTube Channel 10 to Life.  For ALL ACCESS: https://www.patreon.com/annieelise For Business Inquiries: [e-mail] Annie's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_annieelise/ . SERIALously Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/serialouslypod/  SERIALously TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@serialouslypodcast SERIALously FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/SERIALouslyAnnieElise/

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Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? January 18th to February 9th at the Bluma Appel Theatre. Get your tickets today at CanadianStage.com. Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all-new bonus episode of serialously it's me annie your true crime bestie here to talk all things true crime with you. Now, the reason why I had to jump on here and drop this bonus episode outside of the normal release schedule is because I need to talk to you about this case. It is so wild, there is so much

to talk about, so we gotta get right into it. Before we do, please take a quick second, just make sure that you are following along on the podcast so that you don't miss any future episodes and bonus episodes like these that drop, and also follow along on the Serialistly Facebook page where we drop all information regarding giveaways, behind the scenes information, guest episodes, Q&As, all sorts of good stuff. All right, now let's get into today's case. We've all heard of cases in which people do cruel things and pretty horrific things to children, and some of the worst cases we've heard of have to do with people who are called family annihilators, in which they brutally wipe out their entire family. One of the most notorious and worst examples of this kind of

person is Chris Watts. But Chris Watts isn't the only person to have done something like this to his family, and unfortunately, he certainly won't be the last. Today, we're going to be talking about a case that might very well actually be worse than Chris Watts, if you can believe it. 38-year-old Michael Wayne Jones met 32-year-old Casey Jones back in 2012 to 2013 while they were both married to other people. After meeting, they immediately hit it off and ended up divorcing their spouses so that they could be together. In 2017, after they divorced their spouses and had been together for several years, they finally got married. They were now a blended family, living in Marion County, Florida, with their four children. The four children living with the couple were Casey's older two sons from a previous relationship,

and the youngest two kids were Casey and Michael's kids together. The children were 10-year-old Cameron Bowers, 5-year-old Preston Bowers, two year old Macaulay Jones, and one year old Ayanna Jones. Michael also had three other additional children from his previous marriage, but they didn't live with Casey and Michael. They seemed like a normal happy family on social media and around others as well, but as we all know, and have seen countless times in these cases, it's not always the same behind closed doors. Once they got together, there were many arguments stemming from jealousy, and Casey was constantly accusing Michael of cheating on her with his ex-wife, whom he had left for Casey. Their relationship had started with infidelity,

so the constant jealousy and toxicity were largely in part to the worry that a similar thing would happen to their relationship. Which, what's that saying? You'll lose them how you get them? Neighbors had said that their constant arguments would go very late into the night and would be so loud sometimes that they could hear the yelling and banging coming from their home. Casey's oldest, Cameron, the 10-year-old, had even told his biological father that his mother and Michael had argued what seemed like every single day. One video Casey has on her Facebook of Michael is threatening to throw the scissors at her, in which he also calls them

a knife at one point. At the time, of course, nobody thought anything of it or that it was threatening, but as we know, hindsight is always 20-20. On September 14th, 2019, Casey Jones' mother contacted the Marion County Police to do a welfare check on Casey and the kids. She claimed that she hadn't spoken or seen her daughter or grandchildren in six weeks, which was very abnormal for them. She said that she felt in her gut something was wrong. Her mother claimed that her biggest red flag to her was when Casey's oldest son's birthday had gone by without Casey making a single post on Facebook about it, which was very rare because Casey was somebody who had been extremely active on Facebook and definitely would have acknowledged his birthday. She also told police that she feared

maybe Michael had done something to them, maybe to all of them. Now, even though her mother had these concerns about Michael, and even though Casey and Michael had a relationship that was apparently extremely toxic and occasionally even abusive, Michael by all accounts had a squeaky clean record. He had no prior arrests, he had no record, there were no official calls of domestic disputes or any type of abuse to the house, nothing on record or documented that would outright show that Michael was a risk or danger to Casey or the kids. The incident report states that on September 14th, the local police arrived at 14680 Southeast 86 Terrace in Marion County to perform a welfare check on Casey. And upon arrival, it seemed that the place was completely empty and there was quite literally no signs of life anywhere. When they looked inside the windows, they saw what looked to be two two-gallon containers of cleaner and bleach next to a mop

and a bucket that was laying on the floor, as well as no visible furniture or belongings that anybody was living there. Police spoke to a neighbor that had allegedly done a walkthrough with the landlord two weeks prior at Casey and Michael's residence. The neighbor told police that when he was inside though, he was overwhelmed by what he described as an awful smell and further described it as something dead. Unfortunately, the police weren't able to make contact with anybody because it was seemingly empty and upon leaving the house, the police identified Casey and the four children as missing, but they chose not to do an official search party because at this point it had been almost six weeks since they had last been seen. A statement was put out though directed towards Michael since his whereabouts were also

unknown, and the statement urged him to get in contact with the police saying, hey Michael, we just did a welfare check at your house. There's some concern about your whereabouts and the safety of your family. You know, please reach out to us. Let us know what's going on. And shockingly, Michael did. He called the investigators pretty quickly and he told them, hey, I'm on a trip right now. I'm in the UK with my two children. I'm on vacation, but I'll get back in touch with you guys soon and I'll give you a call back. The investigators say, okay, thank you. Sure, that's no problem. But Michael never calls back. So as they continued the investigation,

they learned that Michael had actually contacted maintenance on August 23rd to have some work done on the house and had told maintenance that the family was moving out. Now, this was three weeks before that welfare check, and nobody, including Casey's mother, knew anything about the family allegedly moving out, only that neighbor. Not to mention that when Michael called the investigators after the welfare check, he said that they were just away on vacation, not that they had moved out.

So something wasn't adding up here. The very next day, police received a tip that a driver that was in a car crash in Brantley County, Georgia, was possibly Michael Jones. Not in the UK, after all. The day after the welfare check, on September 15th, Georgia, was possibly Michael Jones. Not in the UK, after all. The day after the welfare check, on September 15, 2019, the Brantley County police responded to a call about a 2017 Chrysler Pacifica that had crashed on Highway 301 in Brantley County, Georgia. When they arrived on the scene, Michael Wayne Jones was the driver in the crash. The responding officer asked Michael if he was hurt, to which he

replied no, but one of the first things out of Michael's mouth was, you might want to put me in handcuffs because there's a dead body inside the vehicle. Not really a statement that you hear every day. The officer claimed that even from the outside of the vehicle, he could smell something terrible. He claimed that's when he asked Michael about the smell, and to everybody's surprise, Michael immediately confessed to police that he had killed his wife Casey several weeks prior and that her body was in the back of the van. But things were about to get even darker. Michael was immediately taken into custody, where he also confessed to killing the four children as well. pay attention. I swerved again and it just, that was it. It just kept going down and I slammed into that and that was it. What happened then? Inside the van, just like Michael had promised, was Casey's

remains. The body was heavily decomposing and it looked as if she had been dead for at least a couple of weeks. Before even seeing the body, the investigator said there was an obvious odor of human decomposition emitting from the van. Inside of the van were plastic totes, clothing, tools, and other miscellaneous items such as a comforter, pillow, shower curtain, and fluid covered zip ties. A gray plastic tote inside the vehicle contained bodily fluids and the remains of Casey. Michael also told the police bodily fluids and the remains of Casey. Michael also told the police where to find the bodies of the four children. All four children were found in a wooded area in Brantley County, Georgia, not far from where he had wrecked his car.

The remains of all four children were found stuffed inside of suitcases and plastic totes. Two-year-old Mirkali and one-year-old Ayanna were inside one tote together. And inside of the tote with them was a baby bottle that had Ayanna's name on it as well as a pair of pink sandals. My detectives have tirelessly been working for the last 24 hours to find them but unfortunately true evil poked its head up here in Marion County. That's about the only best way to describe it. As a father, as a parent, it breaks my heart. As a sheriff, it angers me to no end. Something to this degree, how a human being could even do this. What I can assure you is the hard work of

my detectives of putting stuff together to ensure that this person returns to my jail and will serve, justice will be served upon him. Now as far as I'm concerned, as the sheriff of this county, underneath the jail ain't good enough. He has no right to walk the face of this earth. I hate to be him when he stands before the Lord. But unfortunately, there's nothing I can do to bring those children back. And how someone could do this, I do not know. Casey's mother, Nikki Jones, told local news through tears, Oh my God, they were everything to me. All of them. All of them.

And she described and shared special things that she could remember about each of those sweet babies, saying that Cameron was just so sweet. He was such a good big brother. Preston was just about to go to kindergarten. Mercalli, she was her absolute soulmate, saying that she liked the Bee Gees and talked about Ayanna saying that she was just learning to crawl. She lastly then described her daughter. There's no words how she was. God didn't invent that word. She was amazing. She would give her shirt off her back for anybody anybody and everybody

so now that they have recovered the bodies they know where this family now is but the details of what happened why it happened and the grisly gruesome acts of michael were just about to surface and it would haunt everybody. After the bodies of both Casey and all four children were discovered, investigators obtained a search warrant to go inside of the home that they had all lived in together. Once inside, they found reddish discoloration on the baseboards of the home. They claimed that the odor inside the home was definitely that of decomposition. They found decomposition fluids that were noticeable on the baseboards and the vinyl flooring in the corner of one of the rooms

as well. Lastly, they found that cleaning supplies that they had seen through the window and that it was more than likely Michael's last-ditch effort to clean up a crime scene. When we broke that seal, I could smell it. Do you know what your guy used to clean up? Did he have fans running in all the rooms? I don't know. Did the guy that you had clean up, did he tell you he put some fans in all the rooms and have little fans running? Yeah, because it smelled. Okay. Do you know what he used to clean up with,

did he tell you? No. You don't know, okay. But investigators still had a hard time finding the motive behind these brutal murders. When Michael was first taken in for questioning and asked why he murdered the children, he told investigators, I don't know, everything just mounted up and it seemed like it was a way out. The strain of it all. Parenthood. I guess it just kind of caught up to me. You know, it was building and building and building and then before I knew it, it was too much. Family and friends also came forward since the killings and had said that they believe Michael had been abusive in the past to Casey on multiple occasions and possibly even the children. They also claimed that he was very controlling.

Allegedly, when Cameron, at just 10 years old, told his biological father about Michael and Casey arguing all the time, he also told him that Michael was violent and would not only hit Casey, but would hit the kids oftentimes as well, using a hanger or whatever was closest to him that he could find to use. There were times, there's been many times that family members had begged Casey to leave him and move back up here with family. But my sister was in love. Family members described Jones as a person who could become violent even toward his own wife, Casey. We family members have seen violent and obsessive

and I would say very angry acts toward Casey and sometimes even her boys. Now the interrogation video was released in December of 2019. There are some moments in the video where it is silent due to parts being redacted, but in this video, Michael talks about how he felt that Casey was always nagging him and always accusing him of cheating, which is very interesting, especially given all of the details we're about to get to. He also goes more in depth into the killings and what specifically happened. Luckily, it seemed that he had been pretty honest with investigators from the start, hopefully having at least a tiny shred of remorse for what he had done. However, he also claimed

that in he and Casey's relationship, no matter how many arguments they got into, it never became physical. So it's hard to tell here where the truth ends and where the lies begin. What's your guys' relationship like? I mean, is it just an ongoing thing where you guys are at each other like this, like fighting? It just got worse. Like, you know, little things all the time with her should come at me. And we, you know, we argue and, you know, never really got physical. He tells investigators that on the morning of July 10th, Casey had called him while he was at work and started accusing him of being unfaithful. He says that he hung up on her and then turned his phone off because he just didn't want to deal with her nagging. He wasithful. He says that he hung up on her and then turned his phone

off because he just didn't want to deal with her nagging. He was at work. He just didn't want to be bothered. Then when he got home, he says that their fight continued and that Casey started following him around the house, yelling at him, accusing him continuously of cheating, and then putting the flashlight on her phone and putting it up in his face and just saying, you know, I know you're a cheater. I know what you're doing. Then Casey allegedly grabs one of her son's baseball bats and began poking Michael with it and pushing him with it, taunting him. So this is when he grabbed the bat and started to hit Casey. And he continued hitting her over and over in the head until she was dead. Now, while this whole argument took place, all four of the kids were asleep in the house. He said that

he put Casey's body inside a tote, hid it in a closet, and then cleaned up the blood the best he could. Then, a few days after killing Casey, he contacted his ex-wife Sarah Jones, and he told her that he and Casey were separating, and that he wanted to see the children that he and Sarah had together from their previous marriage. At this time, the four kids that had lived with Casey and Michael were still alive, so he started to pretend to be Casey and texting Casey's mother, asking if it was okay to drop the two girls off over at her house so that she could watch them. He was also texting the biological father of the oldest two boys, asking him to watch them.

They, of course, all thought this was Casey texting them, and they said, of course, we'll watch them. We want to spend time with them, no problem. So they were set to watch all four of the children separately, of course, from July 26th to August 11th, while he went to go see his ex-wife Sarah, unbeknownst to any of them. At this time, Casey's mother still had a weird feeling because she hadn't seen Casey, but as far as she knew, she had been texting with Casey. Although she did say that the text started to be getting weirder and weirder. So Michael goes and stays with his ex for two weeks while Casey's body is still inside their family home and quite literally rotting away. Two of his

kids are with Casey's mother and his two other kids are with their biological father. So after two weeks when Michael got back and picked up the girls, Casey's mom still had that weird feeling because Casey was still nowhere to be seen in all of this, which gave her a sinking feeling in her gut that something just wasn't right. And this is where all of the gruesome details and the truth of what truly happened starts to come to light. It had now been a month since he had killed Casey, and as if this case wasn't brutal enough, just hearing what he did to his own wife, he told investigators the gory details of what happened to each and every one of those poor kids. The day after getting all of the children back from where

they had been staying as they were being babysat while he was, you know, off with his ex-wife gallivanting for two weeks, he walked into 10-year-old Cameron's room, dragged him out of bed, and threw him to the floor, put his knee into his chest, and strangled him to death. He then put his body into a suitcase like he did Casey's and stored him in the house, just like Casey. The following night, he went into five-year-old Preston's room and choked him with a zip tie. Then he carried him to the bathroom where he drowned him. Now, he tells police during the investigation, and this is horrific, he tells them that the reason he didn't strangle him like he did Cameron

was because his hands were still so sore from the night before. It's honestly disgusting and so evil. was because his hands were still so sore from the night before. It's honestly disgusting and so evil. He also says that at some point during all of this, he used kitty litter to try and soak up the bodily fluids that were excreting from the three dead bodies and also used it to try to mask the smell, but that it wasn't working. Fast forward another two weeks

and Casey's body has now been in the house for well over a month and working. Fast forward another two weeks, and Casey's body has now been in the house for well over a month, and the boys' bodies for two weeks, just rotting and decomposing in suitcases throughout the house. Now this is when Michael says he decides he's going to kill his two other children. His own biological daughter is just one and two years old. Apparently he was served an eviction notice and he was running out of time. So on the fifth and last day when the eviction was about to post, he says he drove with the two youngest kids, two-year-old Mercalli and one-year-old Ayanna, to Bellevue City Hall, where he claims he sat outside for hours looking at the police station, hoping to gain the courage

to turn himself in to spare the lives of his two daughters, or at the very least that someone would by chance arrest him for what he had done. But neither of those things occurred. So sadly, he went back home with the two baby girls, and that's when he decided he was going to drown them both one at a time inside the family bathtub. He then put all five of the bodies in totes and suitcases and loaded them into the trunk of the van and headed out to Jacksonville, Florida to go back and see his ex-wife once again. This is where he stayed with his ex-wife until Casey was reported missing, which was nearly three weeks later. So he just allowed all of the bodies, all five bodies to continue rotting inside his van

for another three weeks while he was gallivanting with his ex-wife Sarah inside. It is so disgusting. I can't imagine the smell. I can't imagine the heartlessness, the evil that's attached to that. You're inside knowing that your children are literally steps away from you rotting inside a suitcase inside your car. It is haunting. Now this is when Casey was reported as missing. So Michael's ex-wife Sarah had allegedly heard this and heard that Casey was missing. So when she asked Michael about it and asked what was going on he kind of just blew her off and he's like you know what I'm gonna go back I'll check on things I'll see what's going on because at this point he had said that he and Casey were just separating right so he tries to appease Sarah saying I'm gonna drive back over to you know the county in which I live I'm gonna

handle this with the police let me see what's going on so she says okay fine yeah go take care of it see what the heck is going on but instead of driving back to his county in Florida like he says that he's going to, he started traveling towards Georgia. Now on the way to Georgia, he pulls over on the side of the road in this wooded area because he has to go to the bathroom, he's got to relieve himself. So he's in the woods, you know, peeing, figuring things out, and simultaneously decides that this also is the perfect place to apparently dump his children's bodies. But not Casey's. She was still in the car with him after he dumped the children's bodies in this wooded area that he just peed in, you know, without a

second thought in the world, just careless, you know, this is a spot, throw them out. So he starts driving again after dumping them and starts messing with the GPS, and then ultimately he gets into that car wreck that led him to being caught. You heard my phone call and stuff last night. What was the deal with all that? She woke me up early morning and asked me what was up with, you know, was there any reason why Marion County would be, you know, looking for you. And then I just tried to spin stuff, spin stuff, and finally I said, you know what, let me just get on the road. Did you talk to her? Did you tell her what the heck was going on? No.

She told us that when she talked to me this morning, you were still there. Is that true? When she spoke to you on the phone? Yeah, I was there. What was going on? Just trying to figure it out. You were trying to figure out what I had going on? Yeah. Okay. Did she talk to you? Did you tell her what to say to me? No. At one point, she thought it was looking for just me, and so I said, you know,

if you've seen me or whatever, you've seen Casey, and so I said, you know You see me or whatever you seen Casey's and everybody, you know, so yeah, I guess I did tell her so basically What was the deal with the McDonald's? My counts she mentioned something about being at McDonald's she meant you have McDonald's on Friday or something there's a kids. Oh That's usually a medium spot, okay okay so that's your usual meetup spot we're going halfway so after that phone call how long after that phone call do you leave um i don't think i left out of uh jacksonville until like 3. Okay. Yeah.

So you were there for a while. When, after I called her the first time, I mean, did you ever tell her exactly what was going on or you just kind of, I gotta get out of here? Yeah, I just told her I gotta get out of here. Did you get out of there after I called the second time? Um, around that time, yeah, we said she'd come back. She left the house and came back. We talked about, you know,

she said, you know, why did you have me tell them this? You know, they're calling me back. I said, well, you know, let me try and go deal with it. And you called me, right? I did call you. Why did you come? What do you think was going to happen today after you left? What was the plan? The only thing really I had in plan was just to get out of Florida for now,

cross the border here and set a rest stop and try and think. I'd like to say that him kill but you know that's not it you know just running so when I have more never I got that whenever that second call came in it was you know it was probably time to get going yeah and you left and didn't really have a plan because obviously you weren't planning for detectives start calling you did you see any information about them missing or anything? No, I didn't see anything. She told me that there was some stuff on Facebook. Sarah did? Yeah, Sarah did.

In this video, he's talking about how Sarah wasn't involved, but that he did tell her to say a few certain things. I found a video of her on YouTube calling the police to take back what Michael had told her about seeing Casey in the car. As far as I can tell from research, Sarah hasn't been believed to have been involved or has gotten into any legal trouble for initially lying to police. But you tell me what you think about her involvement. Hey, Detective Bartlett. This is Sarah Jones. We spoke earlier about Casey Jones. I have to apologize.

In my confusion of having three children and a lot going on, I was thinking more about it, and I actually don't recall seeing Casey on Friday. It was a really quick switch out, or rather visit with the kids. So I only can confirm that I saw Michael, but it's actually been a while since I saw Casey in person. So, yeah. And for what it's worth, a lot of drama comes along with her. So I would be very surprised if this were not just some sort of stunt, if I may say so. Anyway, if you need to call me back, I should be available.

I may be out Ubering, so may not be directly available, but I'll try to call you back. Thank you so much. So Michael was charged with four counts of first-degree murder and one count of second-degree murder. April 11, 2022, Michael was seen over a Zoom call for a pre-trial hearing where his trial date was set for December 2022. During this hearing, we learned that 66 witnesses had already been interviewed, and there were still about 20 more witnesses to be interviewed. Now, because this is a death penalty case, there will be two phases. The first is the guilty phase,

where the jury will determine if Michael is guilty as charged. If he's found guilty, then the second phase will begin, which is called the penalty phase. In the penalty phase, the jury will determine whether Michael should be put to death or face life in prison. After this, the judge will review the jury's verdict and make the final decision of life in prison or the death penalty. Michael's defense tried to get the trial pushed back to May 2023 due to heavy caseloads and the team catching up from all of the COVID delays, but its trial date was set for December 5th, 2022. Shortly before the trial date, Michael pled guilty to the murders. Since he did this, no trial was required, and he went straight to the penalty phase, which, as we said earlier, will determine whether he receives the sentence of life in prison or the death penalty.

If the jury decides on the death penalty, the decision has to be unanimous. Michael's defense team has argued that he had a traumatic upbringing that damaged his mental health from a very young age. They claimed that he was sexually targeted by his father and also abused by his stepfather. They testified that because of these traumatic experiences that led him to do what he did, life in prison would be more suitable than the death penalty. Prosecutors rejected this, however, saying that the brutal and heinous killings weren't an execution no matter what his traumatic background allegedly was. The prosecution rested its case against Michael on Monday, December 12th, and the defense will make its case starting January 5th, 2023. According to the Public Defender's Office, they plan to call 18 witnesses,

including a Harvard psychiatrist, a geneticist from UF, and a neuropsychologist from Texas. They also plan to call relatives from Michael's childhood to talk about this alleged abuse that he suffered as a kid. Now, I'm really pretty curious to see how this plays out because I know Florida can be pretty cutthroat when it comes to the death penalty. I also know a lot of people are divided on whether somebody should be sentenced to death or face life in prison. Personally myself, I vary case to case. It depends on the crime. It depends on the circumstances. Sometimes I want them to just rot in a cell for the rest of their life and then sometimes I'm like no they need to be wiped out like they killed other people. Just like get them off this planet. So I'm still kind of trying to figure out where I

land on this one. I think I want life in prison figure out where I land on this one I think I want life in prison because I think I want him to think about this for the rest of his life and suffer for the rest of his life rather than being able to get the quote-unquote easy way out but also the fact that the defense is arguing that it's because he had you know a traumatic experience in his childhood and that's the outcome of this the fact that he had no remorse through any of this speaks volumes to me. It wasn't like he snapped, killed his whole family, killed his own children, which is brutal and awful enough, but then confessed right away or was beside himself crying and remorseful and had so much regret.

No, he literally carried out the murders over a course of several weeks. Actually, he carried out all of the murders over the course of what? Almost two months and then didn't end there. He then continued to drive with their dead bodies, his own family's dead bodies, parked in a car while he goes inside with his ex-wife leave them there to decompose for three more weeks then drive up to Florida toss some of them in the woods while keeping his wife it just shows in my opinion that there was no remorse there was no thought there was no regret nothing he meticulously kind of carried this out without any thought for anybody else without any regret any step of the way. It was just cruel and

calculated, in my opinion, from the beginning all the way through. But what do you think? As I mentioned, I haven't been able to find any proof that the ex-wife Sarah knew anything about what was going on or participated in this at all or was, you know, his safekeeping, his alibi, anything like that. However, there are some people out there who suggest that perhaps he wanted to get back with Sarah. She wanted to get back with him, so she gave him a place to stay. She knew what was going on, but didn't want to be like fully involved in it, but she was kind of aiding and abetting, a weird situation like that. Again, there's no proof to indicate that. Like I said at the top of this video, I feel like it kind of is worse than Wads,

and the reason I say that is not to diminish what Chris did to his family not at all because he is like the worst of the worst he is a true monster 1000% but it feels almost worse than that because of the way this was carried out over such a long period of time to the carelessness and just allowing his children to decompose for so many weeks at a time, just stuffing them in suitcases. Albeit, I know Chris stuffed his daughters in that oil well or oil tank. There's just something about this that feels not, I don't want to say more sinister, maybe more sinister, just like more, not more evil because Chris is able to.

There's something and I can't quite pinpoint the word or the description I want to use. If you kind of know where I'm going with that, let me know. Help me out in the comments here, guys. There's just something about this that feels more, I don't know, callous, depraved. I can't figure it out. And again, that's not to take away from what Chris did because I think he is still the worst of the worst. And God, I hate that guy sorry

I really do I just I can't even watch documentaries on it anymore because it makes me way too emotional but there's something about this guy Michael that just makes me feel like he's got even a deeper evilness to him and I don't know what that is so if you guys know where I'm going and know where my mind is help me out I know I'm going off on a little tangent here I apologize but trying to figure out like how to convey what I'm thinking in my mind and you know convey it verbally and I'm I'm struggling here maybe I should have thought that through before I pressed the record button but guys you you get me you're here with me we're friends help me out here all right guys thank you so much for tuning in to another bonus episode with me like I said at the top of this, make sure you're following the podcast so that you don't miss any more bonus episodes in the future. And if you would

be so kind as to just quickly rate this podcast, review it. It takes 30 seconds max to leave a review and it really does help the algorithm and help push this podcast out to more people so that these victim stories get heard, which we know is the goal so thank you guys so much for tuning in to another bonus episode and I will be talking to you again very very soon all right it's me Annie signing off Thank you.