SERIALously - 119: Twin Flames: A Dangerous & Deadly Obsession?

Episode Date: February 12, 2024

While some look for companionship on dating sites, others have turned to self help books, life coaches, and relationship experts to learn how to attract a partner. Working on yourself is a good thing, but some people believe that two of these so-called “experts” are taking advantage of others' loneliness and vulnerability. These self proclaimed gurus guarantee that by joining their group called “Twin Flame Universe”, they can help people grow spiritually and find “the one”. The problem is, some former members claim that the group is actually a dangerous undercover cult, using shady MLM style recruitment and stripping people of their identities, all in the name of love. Allegedly. Earth Breeze: Go to https://www.earthbreeze.com/ae for 40% off! Daily Harvest: Go to https://www.dailyharvest.com/serial to get thirty dollars off your first box plus free shipping. Better Help: Visit https://www.BetterHelp.com/ae today to get 10% off your first month. Draft Kings: Download the DraftKings Casino app NOW and use code AE. New players get an instant deposit match up to $100 in casino credits when you deposit five dollars or more. Shop the Merch: www.shop10tolife.com     Follow the podcast on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@serialouslypodcast        Follow the podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/serialouslypod/       Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/annieelise      All Social Media Links: https://www.flowcode.com/page/annieelise_      SERIALously FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/SERIALouslyAnnieElise/      About Me: https://annieelise.com/      For Business Inquiries: [e-mail] Sources: Netflix Escaping Twin Flames Vanity Fair Time Magazine Desert News Rolling Stone NewsNation TwinFlames Jeff and Shaleia YouTube

Hey true crime besties, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to this week's episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise, and I am not by myself today. If you are watching the video version of it, you already know where I'm about to go with this, but for all of you listening to the audio version, I have a very special guest here, a reoccurring guest if you will my sister Amy so I'm really excited she's been on here before and you guys always say when's Amy coming back when's Amy coming back because you probably like her more than me but um so Amy's here today and here's why the case we're talking about today is one that has been so heavily requested by all of you guys and I figured I didn't know when to really like schedule it,

when to cover it. So I figured what better time to release it than Valentine's Day? Because it is all about being in love, twin flames, the alleged cult, and like we are doing a mega deep dive. The reason why we're doing this together is because we both watched this documentary and don't worry, I'll get to it.

And we were like, holy shit, we need to jump on the podcast and talk about this together because we were like texting throughout it recapping together. So I figured why not? What better episode right than to have Amy on this one. And what's really exciting about this one too is instead of just being a guest where she's talking and giving me her feedback and we kind of talk through things together, she's actually going to be co-hosting this episode with me. Pressure. The pressure is on. The pressure is on.

So we are going to be delivering this case to you guys together. So please make sure, let me know in the feedback. Be kind with your feedback, but let me know in the comment section whether you're watching this on YouTube or let me know over on the Q&A section on Spotify or the Apple review section if you like this, if it's something you want to see more of with our dynamic. And yeah, we're going to kind of just get right into it. Hi, Amy. Hi, I'm excited. This is a good one. I know. This is a really good one for us to do this one together. A lot of fun fact a lot of people think that we're twins we're not. She's the oldest. I mean you can barely tell. Thanks to Botox. No I'm just kidding. Fair. Fair. Fair for me too even though I have my rogue eyebrow. No so I'm really excited because

yeah we're going to talk about this case together and present it to you guys together. Okay so if you haven't guessed by now the case we're talking about today is Escaping Twin Flames. Now, this documentary has gone viral on, I think it was Netflix, right? Or was it Hulu? I can't even remember. I think it was Hulu. Was it? In any event, it's gone absolutely freaking viral, and I've been, like, seeing the TikToks about it, the case requests coming in from you guys, but I usually don't like to do episodes on documentaries or things that have aired or that are like currently trending because I'm like nobody cares to hear about it again. When I tell you this one has so much more information in it

because we did a deep dive, that is the truth because, and it makes sense actually when you actually take a step back and think about it, this doc was created completely from a one-sided bias like the because the two people involved in it they weren't sharing their stories their family weren't sharing their opinions it was really from people who were actually kind of coming after them and not retaliating but trying to call them out but I want to start by saying like i do at the top of most of these everything we say in this is alleged it's strictly my opinion two of the people that we're going to be talking about about today i just have like a canadian accent did you hear that about two of the people we're going to be talking about today apparently have gotten like

litigation happy they're suing a bunch of people for defamation. So I just want to allege, allege, allege this is all my opinion. So let me start by saying this. I think we can all agree that in this world that's dominated by social media, it's pretty ironic that there are literally millions of people who are so desperate for connection, so desperate for love, and it's actually affecting their mental health quite a bit. The United States Surgeon General even referred to this as a loneliness epidemic and saying that it's a public health crisis. Now, while some are looking for companionship on dating sites, others have turned to self-help books. Some have gone to

life coaches, some seek therapy, and some go to relationship experts to learn how to actually attract a partner to begin with. Now, working on yourself is a good thing, right? I think we can all agree on that. But some people believe that two of these so-called experts, who are love experts, are taking advantage of other people's loneliness, vulnerability. I don't know what else a word to describe it would be. Maybe like gullible nature. I don't know how you would say that as like gullible,

but gullible nature, if you know what I mean. And these self-proclaimed gurus guarantee that by joining their group, which is called Twin Flame Universe, they can actually help people grow spiritually and find the one. Now, the problem in all of this is some former members now are claiming that the group is actually a dangerous and undercover cult, and that they are using very shady MLM-style recruitment methods, stripping people of their identities, all in the name of love. Now again, this is all alleged. So I really want to just jump right into it. I want to talk about love to begin with, because when I first heard about twin flames a few years ago, even though

it dates back pretty far, I was like, what the hell is a twin flame? Like, what does this even mean? What happened to just like a good old fashioned soulmate, right? But I think for most of us, the strongest connection that we can have with another person is after we feel like we have found our soulmate. Now, the definition of what a soulmate is can vary, but in general, it's someone who just gets you, who you get, who gets you on every single level, right? Some are said to be very similar in nature, while others are complete polar opposites which is where the expression opposites attract came into play now what's interesting in this and i'm going to come back to you in a second about this amy is a soulmate doesn't even have to

be a romantic partner i was just thinking as you were reading earlier i thought wait is Annie my twin flame and then I thought okay where are we going with this I mean but literally as you were saying that that's what I was thinking but I kept that to myself we're gonna be like who are the Hilda and Zelda from Sabrina with Salem but Freckles God no so a soulmate doesn't have to be a romantic partner right it can be a best friend it can be a parent it can be a sibling my son thinks I So a soulmate doesn't have to be a romantic partner, right? It can be a best friend. It can be a parent. It can be a sibling. My son thinks I'm his soulmate and he asks me to marry him every single day. I'm wearing his ring that he gave me. He thinks that I'm Princess Peach. Some people even say that their pet is their soulmate. So it's basically just two souls that

understand each other, that connect. However, there are some people who believe that there's an even stronger connection out there, stronger than a soulmate, and that is called a twin flame. And the term twin flames actually was coined back in the 70s by a spiritual leader and an author named Elizabeth Prophet, which can we just talk about the irony in that last name there, Prophet. But she coined this term, but the concept itself is over 2,000 years old. Now, it refers to the idea that when God created a particular soul, that soul was then split into two. So people think that it can be split in more than just two ways, but the common belief is that it's two twins. Now, the easiest way that I have heard this

explained is that a twin flame is one soul that is incarnated or living in two different bodies. I know that sounds very mythical and very like, okay, where's your fortune teller ball, Annie? But that is how it's described. So the theory is that when two twin flames who are in two separate bodies then find each other during their physical existence and during their physical lifetime that it is a very intense connection right off the bat and that it's almost like this magnetic experience that you feel because you realize this person is essentially me. Now,

it's interesting because what they say about that is it's not like, oh, you find this person, you're like, oh my gosh, this person is so great for me. But essentially, you're thinking, oh my god, this person is me. They just get me on every single level. I'm gonna like work so well with this person because they think the same way I think. That's why during this and this whole way of thinking, that's why you'll often hear people with this belief describing soulmates as having this like easy and effortless kind of loving relationship and long-term love story. But twin flames are very, very different because oftentimes those relationships are extremely tumultuous. Because a person is essentially confronted by a mirror image of themselves. So they're seeing all of the flaws, all of the traumas, all of the bad habits, all of those things that they have in

themselves, and it's literally mirrored to them. Because remember, it's this person is me. So apparently, a lot of the times these relationships can become very toxic, sometimes very combative, and just overall very unhealthy and difficult to manage. But people stick with it because they think this person understands you, and they resonate with you better than anybody else because you share the same soul. So the purpose of twin flames finding each other is to grow together spiritually. And then when that's able to happen, the relationship between the twin flames is said to be the most intense kind of love, the greatest connection, the greatest sex, the greatest everything. And you're basically with the person that you were meant to be with. The other half to your soul or your flame or whatever that you've been searching for now if you're still confused like so wait so we're having sex with ourselves i'm following

so if you're still confused don't worry i get it it's a lot and it like if you're like me i'm a pessimist i'm all that doesn't sound real but I get it it's a lot but basically just imagine an extremely intense emotional and spiritual and much stronger bond than soulmates would be and that is bam what twin flames is so that's the end of this episode I'm done no so like I said before this concept is not new at all and it's been going on for decades and people have been writing about twin flames writing books doing podcasts doing youtube um doing all sorts of things talking about twin flames and most recently and the first time i ever heard about this term was actually in pop culture when it was machine gun kelly and megan fox talking about how they're each other's

twin flame which not for nothing i don't know the inner workings of their relationship but seems a little toxic you know so maybe they are each other's twin, I don't know the inner workings of their relationship, but seems a little toxic, you know? So maybe they are each other's twin flames. I don't know. But there also has been a lot of talk about it now in the recent years because of pop culture. And there have been a couple documentaries about it, but there is a specific one called Twin Flames Universe. And again, that's that group that we're talking about today. Now, this group, they claim to help other people, just lay people out there who are looking for connection, you know, yearning to find the love of their life. They claim that they can actually help you find your twin flame. And they teach them then once they find them how they can live happily together.

So seems great, right? A happy ending. Not so much. Because this documentary says that the leaders of this group aren't actually concerned with helping people or finding their connection and finding their counterpart, but rather they're manipulating them into buying expensive classes, expensive memberships, and they think of themselves much more than just love gurus. Now, let me just say, any organization that is making you buy memberships and take expensive

classes to climb the ranks Scientology Scientology does not sit right with me and that appears to be exactly what this group is doing I am personally not of the mindset I do believe that you can do self-help and I'm interested to know what you think, Amy, but I think you can read books. I think you can go to life coaches. I think you can get self-help. I don't think that by taking expensive classes, spending all of this money, that you can achieve the best version of yourself because you bought this $10,000 course. I don't think that's how it works. And I'm just going to say, not for nothing, there's the expression, money doesn't buy happiness. And if that were true, money certainly would buy happiness. So people are now calling this group out.

And some of the claims are actually really, really disturbing. And many people have described this group as a cult that actually promotes abuse. Now, if you follow my channel, you know that we have gone in depth, in depths to the depths of hell on a lot of different cults, and we did Cultober where we talked about a slew of them. Now whether or not you believe that this group is an actual cult or not, the evidence and the personal stories behind it and that I've learned about while researching this group are some of the most honestly disturbing forms of manipulation that I have ever seen, which is saying a lot because I covered Sarah Lawrence, Scientology, Warren Jeffs,

and there is some really gross and bad shit in this group that even tops that, and we're going to talk about all of it. So it also actually kind of, when I think about it and sit back, feels like it could even potentially be more dangerous than those types of cults, and again, you'll see why. So regardless of how people want to categorize the group Twin Flames Universe, it appears as though the leader's actions are actually escalating. So hopefully by informing people and talking about it,

we can prevent one of those Jonestown-type massacres or Heaven's Gate tragedies from potentially happening again. So anytime when somebody maybe meets someone they think is their soulmate or the love of their life and it doesn't work out, I think one of the most common things that any of us can do is jump on the internet. And if we're not social media stalking them, we're probably googling things like, why can't I get over this person? How do I get over somebody? How do I let them go? So during this research, they might come across articles on twin flames, videos of different spiritual people teaching how to find and live with your

Twin Flame, even groups on Facebook. And that's how some of these many members of Twin Flame University found the Twin Flame Universe Facebook group. And that is how they first got sucked in, because they were out there looking for help, looking for answers, trying to get over these people. So they stumble upon this group that basically is claiming, hey, we're going to help you. We're going to help you find your twin flame. You're going to live happily ever after. We're going to teach you how to be happy together. Come join us. Come join us. So before we can really go back in and discuss all the ins and outs of this potential cult alleged, we need to go over the couple who started this group and what this

group is truly rooted in and the two people, and that is Jeff and Shalia Ayan. Now, we need to talk about who they are, what their deal is, and what they claim to be trying to accomplish because it is a little wild, guys. So let's start with 35-year-old Jeffrey Ayan. Jeff was born in a rural town called Lapierre, Michigan, and he has a sister named Laura who is three years younger than him. They grew up in an upper-middle-class home on Lake Lapeer, and Jeff and his sister Laura were raised Roman Catholic. They also attended private Catholic school before then transferring to public school when Jeff was in the seventh grade. And people who were friends with Jeff in middle school and even in high school say that he was extremely outgoing, he was charismatic, and he

was very funny. He was also in the theater class and was said to kind of give off this like nerdy but confident type energy that people just wanted to be around. People were just attracted to this energy. And in middle school, Jeff met his best friend Eric, who reiterated that Jeff always seemed to have just kind of a different mindset when it came to girls than other guys in high school and middle school would. Now, unlike most boys who are going through puberty, Jeff never seemed to care about hooking up or getting any action. He had more of this like romanticized view of relationships. And even at a young age, he just really wanted something more meaningful, something more intense than casual dating, casual hooking up. Now, in addition to like this huge grandiose romance that he envisioned, he was also infatuated with the idea of becoming

wealthy. And his best friend Eric said that Jeff was always so obsessed with becoming rich and becoming successful someday. So instead of playing video games after school or chatting on AIM, Instant Messenger, like a lot of us did in the early 2000s, and I know I'm dating myself if you have no idea what AOL is, but instead of doing all of that, Jeff studied and he read articles all about successful businessmen trying to really learn what their methods of making money were and becoming known in the world. So after high school, Eric and Jeff attended separate colleges,

but they kept in touch on Facebook and they saw each other whenever they could. At Western Michigan University, Jeff studied business and he had his first physically intimate experience with a girlfriend. However, he still apparently, even though he had his first lose in his virginity, he didn't feel a deep enough emotional connection to her to continue the relationship. So after they graduate high school, his best friend Eric expected Jeff to use his business degree, the thing that he had been driven so much toward and that he had been studying all through high school and then went to college for. But Jeff actually decided to go an entirely different direction.

And pretty much out of nowhere, Jeff informed Eric that he was selling all of his stuff, all his possessions, and he was moving to California. Now, he had no money. He had no job lined up, no safety net outside of Michigan. But Jeff apparently really wanted to go and make his own way and discover himself and what he wanted to do with his life. So he packed up all of his stuff and he headed for the Golden Coast and moved to sunny California. We love it here. We do sometimes. I don't know. So yeah, so at this point, Jeff had strayed away from his family. And so he was looking for something a little bit different when he came over to California. And after stumbling across a website about personal growth and a more spiritual-based

website, I think he felt like that was maybe more of a fit for him. And so after he arrived here in California, he met with a spiritual teacher who instilled some different types of practices with chakras, reincarnation, and spiritual experiences, and was awakened by yoga, meditation, and that was kind of his own awakening at that point. And on his website, it says angels came to him with a message from God and basically told him that his life purpose was to bring people back to God. And so this is what he took as being impactful and decided that he was going to move forward and vow to follow God to fulfill his own destiny. So after he had this spiritual awakening, he decided to move

to Hawaii because he wanted to live in nature. And he literally built a structure out of trash using scraps of material from the side of the road. And then he used natural resources to live in the forest. Now, to earn money through all of this, Jeff had been working online for an internet marketing company, but he felt like he could use his business skills that he had learned in college and even through the books in high school and couple those with the things that he was learning about spiritually to then build his own business and to go back and spread that message that he was, quote, receiving from God. So to focus on this, he actually posted his makeshift little shack in the forest on Airbnb

so that people could come and stay in it. And then when they would, he actually slept underneath a tarp so that he could save the money that people paid him in rent so that he could put that money towards creating his business. So he created a website that started as a travel blog, but then it slowly transformed into more of a spiritual life coaching type of website. Now we all know when there is somebody in a leadership position, and if they want to feel a little more, I don't know, official, oftentimes they change their name, whether it's their first name, their last name, whatever it is.

So Jeff was no different. And to fit this new lifestyle that he was creating and manifesting, he changed his name several times. First from Jeff Iann to Jeff Iann Ethos. Then to Shafira Iann Ethos. Then again to Ender Iann Ethos. I mean, it's a mouthful, guys. Before he then eventually was like, fuck it. I'm going back to Jeff. Sounds like his awakening wasn't super clear on his direction because he's changing up the website, changing up his name, which is major red flag. It feels a little lost if you ask me.

Yeah. Anytime someone's changing their name multiple times, red flag. We know how to spot those. Yes, we do. Yeah, which is interesting because he ended up meeting someone that also changed her name yeah so he had lived in hawaii for about five years dated several women none of which were the one until a facebook friend introduced him to shalia who would eventually change his life shaliaalia, who is now 38 years old,

was actually born Megan Plante. She was born in Ontario, Canada. And like Jeff, she grew up with a Catholic background. But other than that, there really was no similarity to their upbringings. Megan said growing up, her family was pretty poor. They lived primarily in their downstairs basement. She had a younger brother. Her mom was a young mom, worked all the time. Her father wasn't established. He was traveling a lot from work. So neither parent was really home very often.

So there wasn't a lot of love and joy in the home. With both parents working, their parents had to find a cheap babysitter for Megan and her younger brother until they were old enough to go to school. It's interesting because you say how there was no joy in the home, and I remember Megan had said things to the effect of her mom kind of always having like that unhappy vibe about her, that her dad was constantly gone, they were just like always like kind of this like ugly dynamic between them. And in some of her videos, she talked about that babysitting incident, and well, many incidents actually, about how starting from around age three, the babysitter's two sons actually began sexually abusing her, which apparently went on for a while.

Now, she said that she never knew how to talk to her parents about this, especially since the teachings at church made anything sexual kind of very hush-hush. They came in that strict Catholic family, if you remember. But it was kind of during that time that Megan said that she started feeling some resentment toward her mom because her brain was looking at it and viewing it as, you're making me go here. You're my mom. You should know that this is happening to me with these people, and you should stop it. So because of that, she apparently blamed her mom for putting her in that situation. Then around 10 years old, her parents ultimately decided to file for divorce because they were very unhappy together again, just no joy in the home. And according to Megan, after that, her dad just disappeared for six months and then called her

out of the blue one day, telling her that he actually immigrated to America and got married. Now, the way that her dad talked about this in one of the documentaries one day telling her that he actually immigrated to America and got married. Now the way that her dad talked about this in one of the documentaries was actually where he kind of just like glossed over all of that and kind of glossed over the way he just left and then said, oh now I live in America. And he said all he said about it was it was really hard on the kids after the divorce. So then he moved to Nevada when he came into America from Canada. And in his words, he became a long distantdistant parent, which I've never even heard that expression, but okay, I guess it makes sense. Maybe it makes sense,

I don't know. Now, when I was looking into that whole situation and trying to find out some more information about Megan's family, I found out that almost immediately after moving to Nevada, her dad started his own security consulting business called Corinthians Consulting, Her dad started his own security consulting business called Corinthians Consulting, and he listed this business on a website literally from 1995, and it lists his business partner as a woman named Jeanne Groves. And Jeanne Ann is also the woman that he ended up marrying. So the whole timing situation of this thing just kind of seems a little off, a little rushed, maybe a little suspicious, and it actually left me wondering if

he had actually met her during one of his many work trips while he was still married, and then planned out this whole new business venture with her while he was still married to Megan's mom, Sue. And then maybe they had to quickly get married so that he could get a green card. I don't even know how all that works, but the timing was sus to say the least. The math was not maffin'. Now, regardless, all of this caused Megan to feel completely isolated, abandoned, and betrayed by her dad. And even though they didn't have that close of a relationship to begin with, she just kind of felt like he up and left and started this new life, leaving Megan and her brother with their mom, who was absolutely miserable, just a Debbie Downer, now even more depressed after the divorce, and just left in this really unhappy environment.

So if that isn't enough to traumatize a child, things were about to get a lot worse, because only a few years later, Megan's mom was actually diagnosed with breast cancer. So this all happening as Megan was coming into her teenage years and trying to navigate life and kind of figure out her place in the world, it took a huge toll on her emotionally because her mom was going to medical appointments. She had chemo, and it would be honestly horrible for anybody to have to deal with, but especially somebody that age when that is like a pivotal point in their life. Now eventually Sue's breast cancer did go into remission, but not long after that, doctors found seven tumors on her brain. So again, she went through

treatment, but she ended up ultimately passing away right after Megan turned 15 years old. Now, I'm not sure why the kids wouldn't have moved in to be with their dad during all of this, unless maybe they didn't want to live with him, or vice versa. But instead of going and comforting and supporting his kids whose mom just died, Megan and Will, her brother, ended up moving in with relatives. And it was relatives who ended up taking care of them, not their own father. So all of that trauma and turmoil caused Megan to develop a very deep disdain for divorce, rightfully so. So because of this, she says that she has always felt this like deep pull and deep urge to find her perfect fairy tale, her perfect partner, this loving romance with somebody who would absolutely never leave her.

And even though the relatives did love and take care of Megan and her brother Will, Megan never really felt like she had a real family, kind of that close, tight unit, or anybody particularly close to her at all. So she wanted to find someone and somewhere where she belonged, where she felt like she fit in, and where she could create a new family for herself. So that being said, from a very young age, she was searching for this desperately. So she started dating a lot of different guys, a lot of boys trying to find love, and not necessarily in the best ways. She was a little bit promiscuous, and she was just not taking care of herself spiritually, emotionally. I mean, it was kind

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to get $30 off your first box plus free shipping. After high school, Megan went to college and started meeting new people, and some introduced her to New Age spirituality, and that's where she first heard the twin flames phrase. And she felt connected to this concept, said that this constant feeling of wanting to find the one and never being able to fully connect with anyone she dated. This just seemed very appealing to her and that she had a twin flame somewhere out there. So after college, Megan decided to move to Sedona, Arizona, which if you don't know, that's one of the most spiritual places in the world. Lots of people go there to find healing, find themselves.

And in Sedona, there are said to be these energy vortexes where you can enhance your psychic powers, meditation, enlightenment, and healing. So Megan went to go on this spiritual pilgrimage in Sedona of self-discovering so that she could heal and manifest her twin flame. And through this, she met a spiritual mentor and started learning how to unlock her chakras, abilities sound familiar and learn to use tarot and oracle cards and other rituals and practices which ultimately were with the goal in mind to help find her twin flame and during this healing process megan decided to change her name there it is she changed her name there it is to shalia so that she felt more aligned with the person she was becoming.

To kind of leave the old behind, start anew. And so now Megan decided she was Shalia. Shalia, a spiritually enlightened person and on the hunt for her twin flame. Now, it wasn't long after this that a mutual friend introduced Jeff, who at the time was still going by Ender, and they got introduced on Facebook. Now, they both just so happened, as Amy mentioned, to kind of be evolving on their own spiritual journeys. And right away, even after only seeing each other's photos and messaging on Facebook,

they felt this instant, almost magnetic connection toward each other. They felt like this was it. And in a video, Megan actually told a story about how right after messaging with Jeff for the very first time, where she went and conducted a ritual where you actually bury a chicken wishbone in the ground. Apparently, since a wishbone has two ends that come down to form one, this is supposed to signify a twin flame union and shalia was hoping for a confirmation that jeff was her twin flame through this word so what would happen to this bone that's going to prove that they're twin flames i don't understand you bury it and what happens he finds it or i don't know as all this is going down, and even though Jeff was into all of this like new age type stuff, he had never heard the term twin flames ever before. He was new to all of that.

But the way that Shalia was describing it to him, they came to the conclusion that these super strong feelings toward each other could only mean one thing, that they were twin flames. So they ended up dating long distance for about four months before Jeff ultimately decided to leave Hawaii and come meet Shalia in person in Sedona. And when they finally saw each other in real life, they said that they knew for sure that they were each other's Twin Flames. And basically, they just started this whirlwind intense romance. Now, as I kind of mentioned at the top of this episode, apparently when you reunite with your twin flame for the first time, it is said by believers that it is the most powerful experience out there,

that it is so beyond intense. So after seeing what this felt like for Jeff and Shalia, and how they were becoming just so in sync and so happy with one another, they felt like they needed to just tell the world, shout it from the rooftops, spread the message about Twin Flames, and hopefully help other people find their Twin Flame so that they could experience the same level of fulfillment that they were experiencing. So this is when they uploaded their very first YouTube video together, where they could really share their story with everybody. And this is also where they shared their entire idea of wanting to help others on Twin Flame journeys as well.

So here they discuss how amazing it was when they first saw each other for that first time. When I first, the second I like saw Ender, it was just like I knew like everything in my whole body knew like, oh yeah, this is so right. knew like, oh yeah, this is so right. Now during this connection, just like Jeff had once received word from God, through meditation, channeling, and all these things, they were receiving what they called downloads. And Shalia and Jeff both believed that they were being told by God that he would use them to deliver these teachings to the world. Now, like I explained before, since twin flames are the same soul in two bodies, if that's true, it makes sense why Shalia and Jeff were going through similar stages in life and then living in very similar ways because they were the same soul and they were kind of just going parallel with each other until they found each other, okay?

And none of the material stuff apparently mattered because when Jeff left his little tarp shack in Hawaii, he came to stay with Shalia at her place, which was a mattress in somebody's garage. That was it. So they were both apparently just very clearly consumed by their spiritual journeys that living arrangements didn't really matter to them. So for a little while, Shalia and Jeff were living together, but then as their mission and these downloads were coming to them and their mission was becoming more clear to them, their efforts were all going in and focusing on how they could create a platform and a message to really share their teachings with the world and share these messages that God was telling them that they needed to be the ones delivering.

So to save money, Jeff's parents agreed that he and Shalia could come and stay back at their home in Michigan for a low amount of rent, for a short period of time or extended period of time, who knows, but a low amount of rent. However, even though Jeff had always been close with his family before, he really hadn't stayed very close to them after he had initially left for California. So when he arrived home, he was a completely different person, and it was almost as though his family didn't recognize him. Hearing all of what they probably felt was like this new age mumbo jumbo kind of stuff, Jeff's dad especially had a very hard time accepting Jeff's new way of life. He said that if people with an illness come to him or come to me, I can talk to them and pull that trauma out and heal them.

Wow. And not just like any spirituality can heal them, but he claimed to Eric that on his website, he could physically cure issues as small as headaches and even as big as cancer. Okay. Yeah. But as soon as he started posting about that on facebook a lot of his friends and family got very upset understandably yeah he was charging hundreds of dollars giving sick people false hope and exploiting serious illnesses for money and a lot of people were really pissed off with jeff

eric asked them to eventually move out because he had had enough with them and felt that they were going too far. Yeah and in many people's opinion people started thinking that Jeff and Shalia had become a bit delusional in their thinking. So Jeff and Shalia moved out of Eric's home and never spoke with him again. Curing cancer thing does seem pretty extreme. It actually gets way crazier, guys. So along with their coaching classes, Jeff and Shalia were filming YouTube videos to discuss various twin flame topics, and they were doing these like vlog style videos so that people could see a real life successful twin flame couple. They also wrote a book, and they were just continuously adding more and more to their program, to their way of life, I mean, whatever you want to call it.

Now, from just coaching, they actually expanded into having a paid membership platform, which was called Awakened Intimacy School. And on this, people would still get the messages from Jeff and Shalia, but they also had access to member-only videos, to group meetings that were via Skype, to private coaching, and access to this full community of other people who were looking for a twin flame as well. With Jeff and Shalia being connected to God, according to them, they said that they were able to receive some more exclusive information, if you will, about twin flames. And not only that, but they

actually guaranteed that if you took their courses for the cheap price of whatever it is, that you could 100% guaranteed find your Twin Flame and you could live with them in what they called harmonious union. So now harmonious union was like their very specific, unique, special flame, twin flame buzzword. Everyone familiar with twin flames knew about coming together in a union, but I mentioned before that oftentimes these twin flame relationships were very, very tumultuous. So by throwing harmonious in with it, it makes it feel like it's all sunshine and rainbows, right? Which would be effortless, happy, blissful, passionate, just like this fairy tale romance union. So as a way to kind of encompass all of their courses, their group meetings,

their books, their Facebook pages, all of these things, they decided to put everything under the umbrella twin Flame Universe. Because what else do you need, right? Now I really want to get into what all of this is about and the people that find it so disturbing, what has happened to them, and why many people believe that this transformed into what was supposed to be matchmaking, essentially, into a cult, rather than this group that's supposed to just be about peace,

love, and harmony. So now is where we get into more of the nuts and bolts of the cult aspect. So while their group started to gain some traction, Jeff and Shalia knew that for people to trust their credibility, they needed to actually have more harmonious unions. So they needed success stories to prove that what they were teaching actually works. One of the first couples to purchase personal coaching sessions was two women who had actually met while they were both still married to men. They had children, and they just unexpectedly fell hopelessly in love, and they felt like they were twin flames together.

However, to be together, they had to completely implode their lives at home. They had to get divorced, they had to deal with custody issues, and their lives in general were far from harmonious. However, after meeting with Shalia and Jeff, they related that God had confirmed that they really were twin flames, which made the whole disrupting of their whole lives for each other feel worth it, and it validated how they already felt about one another. Now, I'm not saying that these two women shouldn't have followed their hearts and gotten together, but as we will talk about more later, Jeff and Shalia put the twin flame relationship above literally everything else, regardless if one or both of the people are

married, if there are kids involved, and even if one of them clearly says they are not interested in the other party. We're going to dive into all of that. But in this case, the women did go on to get married, and apparently everything in their lives worked itself out. And while it was an amazing success story to prove that their teachings could essentially lead to a harmonious union, that wasn't the case for everyone. Not by a long shot. So like I said, some of the Twin Flame universe teachings vary from other twin flame doctrines, and I guess you could say that that's what it would be called, or these traditional and widely accepted twin flame beliefs. So for example, if you watch other people's videos, or if you read

any sort of articles about twin flames, or that are outside of the universe, many believers don't actually think that every single person in the world has a twin flame. And if they do, not all of them need to be together. Because remember, there is a level of toxicity across a lot of these twin flame relationships. They also believe that sometimes even if they are separated, their souls are separated, if the other soul finds their soulmate and is living in a happy marriage, has a family, that there's no reason to uproot that just to find your twin flame. So there's a lot of differing opinions out there on this. And some spiritual teachers have explained that since twin flame relationships can be toxic at time,

one or both individuals might not even be spiritually ready in this lifetime to be together. However, Shalia and Jeff believe that that is complete nonsense and untrue, and that for a person to be happy, they absolutely, without a doubt, have to be with their twin flame, no matter what. And to do that, and to live harmoniously and do that, you just need to take their classes, and you need to follow their teachings, or else you'll just be living a complete lie. This according to them. That you'll just be completely miserable and have this horrible life without your twin flame. You got to take the course.

One of the main criticisms was that regardless of what was going on with the couples, Jeff and Shalia would tell them to just work through any of their problems. And regardless if it was abusive, dangerous. And that they always had that answer that they could find the answer either in Jeff Shalia or the twin flame universe to figure out why their teachings might not be working for all the for everybody why people can't find their twin flame or why they weren't able to convince the other person that that person was in fact their twin flame. So, for example, people would discover these Facebook groups, the Twin Flame University website or YouTube, and they would find these things after falling hard for someone or not getting love reciprocated in other relationships.

And they're wondering why their relationship ended or why they're turned down. And so here they would find these answers through ended or why they're turned down. And so here they would find these answers through Jeff and Shalia and their teachings. For example, people would find and come across this Twin Flame Universe Facebook group, YouTube, videos, and really try to sort out why their past relationships didn't work or why they couldn't find their twin flame or why their twin flame didn't believe that they were meant to be together and Jeff and Shalia were always there to provide those answers and those teachings. In the documentary and I know you and I talked about this there was one girl and I'm not going to go into a ton of depth on it but there was one girl who had broken up with the

guy she was dating he was no longer interested But Jeff and Shalia kept telling her, this is your twin flame. You need to keep pursuing it. So she did. She would do pop-in visits. She would kind of show up unannounced. She would relentlessly be calling him. So much so that this guy ended up getting a restraining order on her.

And Jeff and Shalia just kept saying, he's your twin flame. Don't let that piece of paper stop you or whatever they were saying. Like, keep going after him, putting these people's lives in danger to where I believe she ended up being arrested, right? Because they were at the same club one night. Yes. By accident.

She didn't follow him there. And like, it just, again, it's kind of an illustration for me. It's very sad that they are targeting people who are so hopeful and yearning for something more and they're really preying on that and it's pretty disgusting. So that's where my opinions and snide remarks come in. It's all targeted towards them. And that whole example kind of goes into this concept of a runner and a chaser, which is brought up frequently. So this basically describes a stage at the beginning of their union when one of the people a stage at the beginning of their union when one of the people becomes afraid of the intensity of the connection that they're sharing

and that they're scared that everything is moving so fast and they're not able to handle the spiritual growth, all of these things, again according to Jeff and Shalia. So the chaser is said to usually be the person in the relationship who is more spiritually awakened, who's wanting to pursue the union because they know that it will help both of them grow and be happy together. So the chaser usually has to be persistent at helping the runner realize that they are twin flames, kind of talking them into it, coursing them into it, and trying to help them deal with the intensity and make them feel more comfortable and safe. And it said that this can sometimes take years for a runner to finally come to the realization or a place in their life where they

are able to relax and continue the relationship. And it said to require a lot of diligence and patience from the chaser, but that it could take years, which in my opinion at that point, I think it's probably like a version of Stockholm syndrome or like Stockholm syndrome adjacent where it's not that after years the runner is realizing oh this is the relationship for me you are my twin flame it's more like I'm giving up like yeah you're just so broken at that point and like mentally exhausted right now people who don't believe in twin flames which I don't think I really believe in twin flames guys sorry I know I said you were my twin flame Amy but I don't know if I believe in twin flames

but like people who don't believe in twin flames might just say okay in a moment like that like you need a hard dose of he's just not that into you right but Jeff and Shalia in their teachings they encourage if not demand for these chasers to practically harass stock and just not take no for an answer if it's your twin flame on the other side of that saying no matter how that runner feels or what they're saying do not stop you need to be persistent which like that takes stage five to the next level i was gonna say that's a stage five like stage 10 clinger yeah like that's crazy they even say it doesn't even matter what the law says keep going after them just like that example with the restraining order and in the docuseries there were multiple examples not just that one

multiple examples though of someone going on a couple of dates with a person and believing that they are actually twin flames after just a couple of dates. Now, some may not be able to get over an ex and think that it's because they are actually twin flames. Like, you broke up. I can't get over them because that person must be my twin flame. But then they think that the other person is the runner and that they're the chaser. And they're, like, justifying this crazy, relentless loop, I guess, in their mind of how this person is supposed to be with them. And the runner's like, uh, no, please get the hell away from me. This is really creepy. Stop. I just don't want to date you anymore. There were also some examples of a runner being in a new

relationship, getting married, having children, and Jeff and Shalia still telling the chaser to pursue them, to keep going after them, because the twin flame union is the most important thing in the world, and that's what you need. And here, you can actually even hear Jeff talking about your twin flame being married, and then ending that marriage. Listen. Now, you don't have to worry about whether your twin flame is married or not, because as you're choosing your ultimate lover, that's your partner, and that's not anyone else's partner. So you don't have to share them with anyone. Or, you know, you don't have to wait until they finish with their other person. You need to simply choose your ultimate lover.

If you're waiting on your twin flame, it's an illusion. You're simply waiting on yourself. It's never ever about them. Yeah. It's never about them. Yes. It's never about them. Yes. So dissolve that marriage. Don't worry about that spouse.

Yeah. If your heart's true calling is your twin flame, there's nothing that can stand between the two of you. Nothing at all. Yeah. Their messaging was that regardless, you will come back together multiple times in this life or next. So to continue that pursuit and this constant encouragement of pursuing their twin flames eventually even directly harmed some paying members of the group as well.

It's actually pretty wild because one of the main strategies that Jeff and Shalia teach people to use to prepare themselves spiritually to find their twin flame or to get to a place of harmonious union is called the mirror exercise. Again, a coined term which has a fucking red flag waving all over it. Now, I will say Jeff and Shalia didn't come up with this exercise, but it definitely has become one of their like signature practices. So since all of this stuff is a little bit confusing and hard to explain, I'm just going to quote what the Twin Flames Universe website says about their specific mirror exercises and what it entails. It says the mirror exercise is the most powerful spiritual tool for self-transformation. This exercise is based on the principle that your entire external reality is a reflection of your inner world. Therefore, you are only ever experiencing whatever is within you. When an upset arises, it is pointing you towards a place within your consciousness that is asking for love. So let's go through the steps of what these mirror exercises

are. Step one, you identify the upset. Who are you upset with? What are you upset about and why? Step two, invert all of the pronouns to point to yourself. For example, I'm upset with myself because I feel I am rejecting myself and I am ignoring myself. Step three, ask yourself whether this is true. The answer is yes. It will always be true because you can only experience a pattern that is within you. An example answer to that would be, yes, it is true. I don't acknowledge my feelings and ignore and reject my own boundaries. I don't feel like I am good enough to be loved, so I ignore my needs and I don't nurture myself. Step four, once you have identified this place within you, ask what does he or she need to do to feel fully loved right now? So while this in theory sounds like it could possibly be a good

exercise for self-reflection or something like that, maybe even help develop empathy, some people have said that overusing or misusing the mirror exercise can actually cause a person to blame themselves for things that actually aren't their fault. And honestly, to me, all of it sounds like a word salad. Like, it sounds like it's like talking in circles a little bit to confuse yourself to where you're so confused you believe it. So when Jeff and Shalia are meeting with a member who believes that their twin flame is ignoring them or doesn't love them or doesn't want to be with them, they say, I am upset with myself because I am ignoring myself because I don't love myself and I don't want to be with myself. and over again was extremely emotionally damaging to members of the group as you could imagine and kind of caused them to believe that anything negative happening in their lives was because of

their own fault and their own doings i feel like the only way to get out is to get away because he just keeps bullying that's who likes you in that position i don't want him like i cannot stand the way he acts? I don't want him. Like, I cannot stand the way he acts. Oh, you don't want yourself, and that's why you're pushing yourself out of your own home? No, I don't act like that. Yes, you do.

You're acting like it right now. No, I don't. It's me or Becky. You just fuck him in the family. But that still is not even close to some of the most disturbing practices in this group. Now, I talked before about how to make their teachings more credible to other potential members. They needed to have success stories, right? Because if they couldn't prove that their methods work, who's going to sign up?

Who's going to pay them? Especially since they were guaranteeing that they would find you your twin flame and that they would end up in a harmonious union. So as their Facebook group, their website, and their paid memberships started to increase, Jeff and Shalia were continuously adding content for people to buy. And they were adding packages that ranged from a couple hundred dollars to literally thousands of dollars. So basically, if you were really serious about wanting to find your twin flame, you needed to get all of the all-inclusive memberships too, which was just extremely, extremely expensive. Also, all of these tiers of membership,

which reminds me of Scientology where you like go up the ranks, all of these tiers of membership promised coaching, personal sessions, group meetings, but with the growth in the group Jeff and Shalia weren't able to keep up with that demand which might have you thinking if you're like me who the hell is signing up for this but again it's people who I know but it's like and how did the demand grow that large but like it happened because and that's really sad to think about that that's how many people are lonely and how many people want companionship and are so desperate that they would

pay any amount to receive it so because Jeff and Shalia couldn't participate in these courses anymore these one-on-one group trainings that they had promised they decided to train other coaches who could then charge people a fee for twin flame advice or for mere exercise advice or meditation or counseling advice, all of these things. And the best part was that anybody who coached members got to keep all of the profit from their clients. So it was really a huge incentive for somebody in the twin flames universe to become a coach because then you're getting to keep all of that money. In order to become a coach, the first thing that every coach had to do was require that

their clients purchased some or all of the TFU resources, which is Twin Flames universe for short. So they could buy the e-course videos, books, membership packages to get access to group meetings, and all of that money for the materials went to Jeff and Shalia, which really became their biggest way of making money. So basically, anyone who has been in the group for a while was given the opportunity to become a coach and help spread these messages. And in theory, if Jeff and Shalia got enough people coaching, they could literally just sit back and do very little work while collecting huge amounts of passive income from the sale of all of these materials, all of these resources

that had already been created. So then as TFU got a few more success stories under their belt, a few more successful unions, more people were wanting to join because they wanted to find that for themselves. It appeared that it was working. working and remember it still had this guarantee and many of these people were just lonely looking for love and like finding this community of people who were looking for the same thing was also comforting for them it wasn't even just them finding their twin flame that was the added bonus but it was like this community of like-minded people who are all on the same path reading the same materials so. So during all of this, everyone in the group would constantly encourage each other. They would share their stories. And the more members that they got and the more people that were joining,

the more money that Shalia and Jeff were collecting. They were just making it rain. In fact, sales from the TFU resources and coaching sessions eventually turned Jeff and Shalia into multi-millionaires. Multi-millionaires. Today we just discovered that we're not just millionaires, we're multi-millionaires and it's been this way for, you know, almost a year now. People are probably wondering like, don't you look at your bank account? no seriously like no i i've always i was always told it would be this way like you're just so focused on your work and your career that you

don't realize that you know you're you become a millionaire it was around this time that the business started really taking off and people started noticing a big change in jeff and shalia's behaviors they started posting all these crazy videos on social media, outwardly bragging about their home, their furniture, their TVs, trips they're taking, and just seemed to be increasingly more and more materialistic. This is the Porsche. It's a $100,000 Porsche. It's the 2018 Cayenne. We'll sit in that in a few minutes, but I want to talk about the Corvette first. This just came yesterday. This is the one of the finest Corvettes that you can possibly buy today. It's a 2019 Corvette Z06, 650 horsepower.

So coming from sleeping under a tarp to now being able to afford your own home and cars and sitting in those cars and posting these real, they're more bragging videos. Totally. Which is really outside of what most organizations do. They're not outwardly flaunting their money. In fact, they're mostly trying to conceal it. So it was very odd to have him posting all these videos and outwardly showing all these material possessions and outside of just bragging about all of these things now it's fine to be proud but bragging is

a very different thing and really the majority of the work was being done by the coaches as you said most of their income was coming from the materials for, if Jeff found out that somebody had a specific skill set in marketing or legal or graphic design, he would encourage them to join he and Shalia in their efforts for this harmonious union and these twin flame teachings and more or less convince them to come on board as volunteers. So just as you would in a church or other organization, volunteer your time for the organization and the overall mission of this group which is crazy and it became a full-on company and yeah these people were working for free which actually leads to the next controversy

so as the money aspect seemed to start outweighing absolutely everything else even though jeff said himself that he and shalia were making millions of dollars, they still wanted to hold on to every single penny. And they wanted to do this by demanding the free labor, that volunteer work, and also trying to figure out a way to pay as little taxes as possible. So as I'm sure you could guess, not really surprisingly, in order to become tax exempt, Jeff and Shalia decided to create the Church of Union, and the religion was unionism. So on the unionism website, they describe their mission as working to create heaven on earth through, and they say that you can do this through a personal experience and connection to God and to yourself by everyone coming into their harmonious twin flame union. In a quote about these self-proclaimed gurus, it says,

We believe our gurus were sent by God from heaven to bring us the teachings of union and partner us in creating heaven on earth. Their authority comes from the results of their work, which completely transforms the lives of all of those who sincerely engage with it. So while all of this sounds clearly very much like a new age religion and something a little kooky kooky, the church on its own isn't too crazy itself. However, some people think that what Shalia and Jeff claim to have revealed by God or had a vision of definitely is very bizarre. So in several of their videos, Jeff talks about seeing photos of Jesus and thinking that there was a resemblance between the two of them, between Jesus Christ and himself. He actually claims that God revealed to him, get this,

that he is the second coming of Christ, which honestly, I can't even say I'm surprised. Get original, buddy. Everybody says that who's a cult leader, but listen to this clip. Hi, I'm Jeff. Today we're going to talk about, has Christ come again?

Hmm. Today we're going to talk about, has Christ come again? He's got the beard and the hair and, you know, blue eyes. But, yes, I'm suggesting that could I be Christ? Let's have a little discussion about this. Let's find out. What is it that makes Christ? What would happen if Christ came again?

And more interestingly, what if I am the Christ? And God sent me to come remind you of his joy. Because you called me in. I am a result of your request. I only came when you called, and now I'm here as a result of your calling. You called, I want my lover, Twin Flame Ascension School.

I want to live with purpose. I want to have a life of wealth. Life purpose class. I'm starving. I want to be fed well. I'll have a divine dish. I am sick. I want to be healed. Well, we have mind alignment process. I'm bored. I want to have fun and play. Well, I have divine gaming under, you know, under construction and so much more. My religion doesn't seem to make sense to me. It doesn't work. Well, I have unionism.

My religion conflicts with love, or with other religions that are loving. Unionism, right? I've created a movement, and it's just the seeds, just the little sprouts. And, you know, it will grow. But it won't be complete without you. It needs you. God needs you. Your love is the only thing that isn't a given for God.

And I'm here to win your heart over for him. That's what I am. That's why I'm here. And you can't stop me in doing that. Because when you asked me to be here as a collective, you wanted me to be here. All right, guys, so we're going to take one final break in today's episode to hear from our sponsors. Today's episode is sponsored by Better Help. Now, a common misconception about relationships is that they have to be easy to be right. But sometimes the best ones happen

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registering new account. Max match $100 in casino credits, which require one-time playthrough within seven days, 168 hours. See terms at casino.draftkings.com slash new player offer 2024. It's like the typical box that I think people have to check when groups like this are formed. The leader is convinced that he is the second coming of Christ. He's here to save the world. He's going to grow the long hair. There's a strong resemblance. I mean, seriously, just listen, guys. That image of the supposed Jesus or really the Christ. And it's the same person. And it's the same person. Those images were images of me, or portrayals of me.

Not a Jewish guy from, you know, Israel, but a Euro guy with blue eyes and brown hair. And so it's like really, you know... Euro American. And so it's like really, you know, I'm trying to say it's really uncomfortable for me to bring this up in the way that they would speak and how they interacted with their members and just almost a self-righteousness about them so even though they had gained this loyal following at this point some of the most loyal members i think started to have second thoughts and we're thinking uh i don't think this is Jesus. But in true form, Jeff and Shalia just said, hey, if you don't believe it, then that's a block within yourself. So now with all of this going on,

there was an obvious tone shift after the money started coming in. And then again, with this new self-proclaimed divinity that he was looking like Jesus Christ. So Jeff and Shalia actually changed their last name because of this to Divine. Wow. I mean, get real. Come on, guys. So both of them started going from being these like kind, soft-spoken people, super passionate about love and helping people find their twin flame, to being super passionate about making money, controlling all of their members, selling courses, about making money, controlling all of their members, selling courses, all of the things.

In coaching sessions and even group meetings, Jeff just started kind of coming off like a complete jerk. And if anyone ever had any questions or any criticism toward their advice, he really laid into them. He would start cussing them out. Sometimes he even just blocked them from the entire group. Some of them had also even spent thousands of dollars by this point, and he would just shut them out. He even did this to Shalia at one point, guys, saying that he was doing it and he was disciplining her. Ugh, okay, listen. Shalia was like, we're needy, we're needy. I'm like, no. I didn't mean it like in a codependent sense. Let the man speak. All right. We're doing it even now. I guess like. Stop talking, please. Let me make my point. Thank you. You're uncomfortable. Sit with it. I'm not being rude. I'm not being controlling or domineering. I'm not being a jerk. I'm not

being a dick. This is what discipline looks like. So apparently going against anything he said became the exact same as going against God himself. So all of this was getting pretty crazy, and I guess millions of dollars still wasn't enough, because Jeff and Shalia eventually decided that their coaches didn't actually deserve to keep all of the money that they were making in their coaching sessions after all. So they started requiring them to give Jeff and Shalia 50% of their earnings. This on top of the money that they were already making from the resource and the membership sales. Now there was still a little hiccup though in their huge master plan that could possibly ruin Jeff and Shalia's credibility. Because they have that

guarantee of finding everybody their twin flame. But as we all know, there are tons of people in the world. So how on earth could you cherry pick the exact person who is supposed to be somebody's twin flame? Now at first, people who were joining TFU either already had somebody that they believed to be their twin flame in mind, or they needed help finding who their twin flame was completely from scratch. But again, that posed a huge problem because how were they just going to find these people out of thin air and convince them to join their organization and that they were this stranger's twin flame? But luckily, to solve this problem, Jeff and Shalia had a revelation. They had a revelation that anyone in the group who was

looking for their twin flame would actually find that person in the group. Now for some people that might have seemed way way way too convenient that everybody's twin flames just happened to be right there in that TFU group too but Jeff and Shalia said that fate and the desire to find each other is what brought them to the group initially so their twin flame was there in that group and eventually to further assist members and build out their team of successful harmonious unions, Jeff and Shalia started having revelations once again from God telling them who belonged with who. Basically, almost like a twin flame matchmaking service, saying, hey, Jane and John, you belong together. Just cherry picking these people in the group

and saying that they are each other's twin flames. Now, the only problem in all of this was, besides obviously the obvious, was that some of the people in these new arranged unions didn't feel like the other person was really their twin flame, whether it be because they weren't attracted to them, they didn't feel any sort of special connection, and sometimes even because one of the flames was abusive or awful to deal with, they were just like, this isn't my person. I'm not attracted to them. But God was again, giving these revelations and giving the word down to Jeff and Shalia. And they were saying, we are never wrong. God is never wrong. So if for some reason a twin flame union wasn't working out, it had to have been one of their faults, and that they just needed to work through whatever emotional and mental block that they had, and they needed to be able to just accept

it and live with their twin flame that was assigned to them in a harmonious union. Yeah. Man, what a nightmare. However, if any of the members started questioning Jeff and Shalia, it caused major hostility between the members and these gurus. So there is this fight between the groups, which really kind of changed Jeff and Shalia and the perception of them. They went from being this bright, sweet couple who is trying to help others into this angry, condescending dictatorship, saying you either accept the person we choose from you or you get kicked out. Yeah.

Kind of like going against God. Mm-hmm. You know, you have God, right? Mm-hmm. You have to have this one figured out. That's why you came to me, isn't it? To get this figured out. That's why you sat through every class.

You dealt with all the hard shit. You showed up today. You're not happy alone, are are you i always choose to be happy and i'm already young and i want to keep being happy and i never want to lie you're not happy you are numbed out you cannot be happy without your twin flame but i am happy me. I've had about enough of your disrespect of me. It's getting pretty old. Well, I will not be abused by you, Marie-Sophie. You don't know better than God. And you must surrender to him. So going from 100 to a few thousand to over 75,000 followers on Facebook. It is wild because I looked at their socials and I was shocked. With more people paying for help

finding their twin flame, more problems started to arise, of course, primarily because 80% of the members were heterosexual women and were starting to run out of potential male partners. So how did Shalia and Jeff solve this problem? They came to the conclusion that not all women were actually women at all. Oh, my god. Now, it's the general belief that when a soul originally splits in two, one of the halves is known as the divine masculine, while the other half is known as the divine feminine. So according to Jeff and Shalia,

a twin flame union will always be between a divine masculine and a divine feminine, and that they will be, you know, the partner. Now, other twin flame resources say that just because the soul is split into masculine and feminine counterparts, it doesn't mean that the masculine is always a male or a female is always a female. It's apparently possible for two females to be twin flames, with one having the divine masculine energy. So in the TFU, apparently that isn't the case at all, though. They say that any female who is the divine masculine is actually truly a male, not just that you have masculine energy and you're a female. And the same with males having feminine energy. But in TFU, males finding feminine counterparts wasn't the issue

here. They had 80% of available women. There were plenty of women to go around. They needed more men. So something that Jeff and Shalia started doing was meditating and once again getting downloads from God. And these downloads were about who the twin flames in the group were. And then they would post a list periodically of these newly revealed couples, saying God gave us a revelation, here are the new couples of the quarter, or whatever it is, and pinning it up almost like it's a school play, like cast list, being like, here's who's paired together. However, more often than not, the couples that they came up with were two females, because that was the majority of their group. And a lot of the times, both of those females had never considered themselves to be gay, never considered themselves to be attracted to women, or that they could ever be in the wrong

body, so to speak. So it kind of just seemed in that moment, and while Jeff and Shalia were doing this, that they would randomly just like draw names out of a hat and say okay this one's male this one's female let's announce it to everybody and they have to accept it and get rid of their block and do my armure exercises if they're pissed off about it it's absolutely bananas it really is i mean i've heard like changing yourself to impress your partner but this just takes it to a different extreme and don't forget if you argue about these revelations now you're the enemy and it just means that you're experiencing a block that you need to work through with this mirror exercise to convince yourself that Jeff and

Shalia are correct in fact in a recorded session with the couple Jeff had previously told one of the women that she was the masculine energy and told her to change her name body and everything else when he realized she wasn't following his instructions he said you guys look dumb as fuck hiding behind this lie still take a guy's name and guy's pronoun or I will need to put someone else in charge of sales who does respect my work wow and that you're the wrong gender. Exactly. It's like an opposite form of conversion therapy.

Instead of convincing people that they aren't gay, they are convincing their followers that they are, in fact, in the wrong gender's body. So with these new twin flame unions trying to accept and take on their new role in their twin flame dynamic, members were heavily encouraged, if not blatantly ordered, to start presenting as the energy they were assigned. These women with the masculine energies basically started transitioning genders

at the direction of Jeff and Shalia. They even had their team of coaches convince their clients of this as well. And even if they didn't want to accept that they were of the opposite gender, they were being manipulated into changing their names and even going through medical transition by taking hormones and surgeries like breast removal. It is absolutely crazy. And this was one of the main things that really started to concern family members of people in the group. Because for most of them, they had been talking about trying to find their twin flame, right?

Join this group. Talking about these love gurus who have all of the answers to help them find happiness. Then, all of the sudden, out of nowhere, they come out as the opposite gender and they start transitioning. And if families tried to talk to their loved one about it or talk them out of it at all, or at least even kind of just tried to get them to pump the brakes a little bit and not move so quickly with this, they were completely cut off. In actuality, many of the families of the people in the group were cut off anyway because they didn't have the same thinking and process and all of those things, and because the members were told that in order to fully commit to the group and finding their relationship with their twin flame, that other

relationships would be a distraction, but any relationships that were still in existence were pretty much severed when this happened. Now, Jeff and Shalia probably knew that if these families heard about some of the tactics that they were using to get people to fully submit to God, as they quote said, aka whatever Jeff told them God was saying, that they were using to get people to fully submit to God as they quote said, aka whatever Jeff told them God was saying, that they would try to convince them to leave the group, which would be bad for their business ultimately. So some of these families lost complete contact with their loved one after they joined the group, and they had no idea who their partner was, where they were living, or if they were even okay. So as their following and

group of successful harmonious unions grew, Jeff and Shalia were able to then take all of that money and purchase a very large home on a huge piece of property. And their hope was actually to have some of the members come and live with them on this property in trailers and maybe even some small houses, kind of almost like this compound type thing. But until then, until that ever happened, they were just going to be hosting these like boot camp type situations. So basically new couples for these boot camps would come and stay with them for a while so that they were able to witness their perfect union so that they could gain the experience and the advice. And for the most part, besides the occasional meetup or speaking event,

the TFU was completely online and was not in person at all really anymore, and it seemed like their hope was to eventually have more of the couples meet and work together in person and then even live near each other to learn and improve on their unions. It was just very bizarre. They also hoped that eventually they could create an entire Twin Flame Union community on their land, with couples then having what they called golden children, or babies born to Twin Flames, who are already spiritually enlightened and have ascended, just kind of creating their own little Twin Flame world out there in rural Michigan. So while Jeff and Shalia were probably feeling pretty untouchable at this point, with a loyal group of followers, all of this money, being directly connected to God, and just really swimming

in this beautiful lifestyle, more and more members started pushing back toward these radical decisions, like trying to get them to transition, or forcing them into a union with someone who just clearly wasn't right for them. So after these people left or were kicked out because of their defiance, they were then labeled as, quote, haters. Unoriginal, right? Now ironically, many of the people to leave were actually the ones who had been closest to Jeff and Shalia the entire time and had worked for them as coaches or had worked as some sort of other aspect in the company. And when some of them had enough time and enough distance away to realize how truly messed up everything was that was going on when some of them had enough time and enough distance away to realize how truly messed up everything was that was going on, some of them decided to take their story to

the media, to warn potential members about this group. Some really unflattering articles were written about the TFU group and about Jeff and Shalia's teaching, and that's actually really when people started correlating their practices with cult behavior. However, when all of these articles came out, Jeff was so offended that people would actually try to compare him to other cult leaders, so much so that he actually asked some of the highest ranking coaches to study cult leaders, and to then write papers about why he was not a cult leader. Now, unfortunately for him, he was having his coaches research all of these cult leaders, right? So because of that, a lot of these coaches actually

realized like, wow, maybe I am actually in a cult. And they actually now were starting to see Jeff and Shalia's behavior for what it truly was, which was manipulative and abusive. Well, like Jeff and Shalia had always done, other than just their twin flame universe, they had their other businesses and side hustles like helping people heal from other types of trauma, more so for personal growth outside of their twin flame union. One of these was a program called MAP or the Mind Alignment Process, which was on their website saying it was a proven healing modality to resolve your trauma at the core by healing trauma at the root of the experience

the trauma is completely eradicated from consciousness healing trauma completely allows you to enjoy the full richness of harmonious union with your twin flame so they say so they say allegedly so even if people weren't necessarily active in seeking their twin flame there were plenty of people who had severe trauma that may be looking for a way to eradicate that trauma and heal from their consciousness completely so they sought out these other modalities that jeff and chalalia were pushing pushing so on the twin flame universe Facebook page one woman made a post in the group that said is anyone else struggling with depression on their own twin flame journey and other members of the group encouraged her to take the map courses and apparently she had a meeting with Jeff where he encouraged her to do the mirror exercise but

unfortunately before he could even start her on that map course, she committed suicide. It's devastating. Now, some former members of the TFU claim that more of these side hustles and side resources are actually just ways for Jeff and Shalia to exercise control in all aspects of their followers' lives, other than just their love lives. in all aspects of their followers' lives, other than just their love lives. For example, they created another business that they called Divine Dish, which is another paid program, of course, that basically controls the diet of this follower by making specific meal plans and specific food, and even offering a meal delivery service with foods that are God-conscious. Now, service with foods that are God-conscious. Now, the diet is primarily carb-driven and red meat based, so many followers, especially the women, gained significant amounts of weight on this diet,

and some even claim to have developed diabetes from it. Some former members have given their theories about why a diet like this would be pushed onto them. One being that by making people gain weight, Jeff and Shalia can lower their self-esteem, therefore they become easier to control. Now, I wanted to try to find out how many of these like side businesses, side hustles, Jeff and Shalia own. And on opencorporates.com, I found several, including TFU, Corporate Harmony Consulting, which I guess, I don't know, aims to heal people in the business world. I don't know. Divine Dish, Divine Gaming, which has created an online video game for the TFU followers. Mind Alignment Process, Inc., Awakening Intimacy, and some others. I mean, again, the names of these are enough for me to like have a major

pause, like mind alignment process. Oh, again, awakening intimacy. I can't. I can't. Now, the bizarre thing in all of this that I noticed was that none of these businesses list Shalia as the co-owner or as the CEO or anything like that. No position of power. And I'm not really sure why that would be the case, but I think it's a little bit weird. And I think it definitely aligns with Jeff wanting to be the master man, the controller, the be-all. Like he's not putting her name on any of this.

And remember, he didn't even hear the term Twin Flames until Shalia came into his life. And now here he is, the CEO on all of these businesses and not giving her any of those, you know, the credit or reaping those rewards. So all of this being said, I think it's obvious, right, why people think that Twin Flames universe is a cult. There was also a very obvious behavior shift that happened in Shalia and Jeff after they started earning more money. And just something about their whole vibe and their whole outlook on their quote-unquote mission seems to have become far more centered around money making rather than actually helping people

find harmony in their twin flame union like we talked about. Now another thing I want to talk about is that Jeff and Shalia have recently become parents, okay? Which, in general, could be pretty concerning, right? Considering the level of control that they like to exercise over other people's lives. But that in itself isn't what has disturbed people. Not at all. See, from the very beginning of their relationship, Jeff and Shalia supposedly had another revelation from God. This time, it was that they were actually a twin flame trio. So twin flames, you're basically one in the same soul. Now, the general understanding with the community about twin flames is because it's twin,

there's only two. But I I believe and from my knowledge when I talk to my own inner guidance and my guides is that and from other people who I know that you can have more than one twin flame I know a woman that I lived with who is a psychic she has seven we have three but our other twin flame is not on earth at this time so it so that hopefully that answers the twin flame part of it you you could have a number of them but the purpose is different than a soulmate. And a soulmate, like I was saying before, anybody who kind of joins you on your path that you feel kin to is basically your soulmate. It's whether or not you both are aligned in creating and maintaining a long-term partnership. So according to them, their third flame wasn't intended to be a sexual partner, and it actually was going to come in the form of

their future child. So on their YouTube channel and in their group meetings with all of this, Shalia and Jeff shared their journey of trying to conceive this triple flame child. And in this journey, they went from having a miscarriage and then the baby miraculously surviving, even though the doctors said that the baby was gone, and then they later decided to terminate that pregnancy because of more complications. I mean, it was a little difficult to understand what was truly reality and truth in that situation, but ultimately they ended up getting pregnant again. And some of the things that they said about the purpose of their baby and the concept of their baby being their third twin flame was what it would mean for

the baby's life. And what they said really just left me speechless. They explained it to their followers that the baby would be completely spiritually ascended and that regardless of the baby's sex, it would possess divine feminine energy. Third twin flame is, you know, so-called celibate because she can satisfy herself completely and give herself all the sex she needs. Yeah, I've been talking to her about that. Oh, poor Kreese. She's not going to be with her man. She's not going to get laid until they ascend. Or other people are like, your parents were so controlling. Like Jeff and I thinking we're like forcing this on her. Now there's a few things that I take personal

problem with here. You're choosing the baby's gender before they're even born and you're gonna, it sounds like you're already planning on forcing them to be the divine feminine energy even if the child is born a male, which again, they decide something later in life, whatever, to each their own. But like, that doesn't sit right with me. Also, since twin flame relationships are usually romantic and are usually sexual, and you obviously cannot have a sexual relationship with your child, or you can and you go to jail usually, hopefully, Jeff and Shalia basically just decided that their baby was going to be celibate. Because the only person that their baby will need to satisfy her sexuality is herself and God. It's sick. And honestly, just hearing Jeff

say those words gave me the creeps and the chills all over my body. Like, he's going to have control over his child's body and over his child's sexuality. It is seriously just beyond weird, and if he and Shalia try to control the child into adulthood to make sure that she stays celibate that in my opinion no that doesn't work is it well and it's abusive it's just another form of control and abuse and yeah like you can preach abstinence and celibacy all you want but a kid's got a mind of their own right you can't just force somebody to be celibate their entire life that's not how it works And since she is their third twin flame, I guess that they would never be giving her the opportunity to find her own partner or experience

love that way or find her own twin flame, right? Because she's like an extension of them, but she hasn't found her own. But they were pregnant. And this was their plan. And in April of 2023, Jeff and Shalia had a baby girl named Grace Violet Devine. And so as you can imagine, many people are just worried about what kind of future this little girl is going to have, especially considering that her parents apparently already have her entire life mapped out for her, planned for her already. It's so scary to think about. Now we talked about this a little bit in the beginning of this episode, but I want to give you another example of just how dangerous some of these matchings and matchups were becoming. Because in the documentary, and even in some more examples online, one girl who

was only 19 years old was told that this man that she had never even met, not once, was her twin flame. And she was convinced by Jeff and Shalia to then move and go be with him, not even bothering to find out that he was a severely, severely mentally ill criminal. He was verbally and physical abusive towards her, and Jeff and Shalia's advice was just to once again do the mirror exercise, because it was a block within herself, and she needed to fix it so that he could properly love her, and so that their relationship could reach harmony together. Now, she was thankfully able to get out of this relationship after going through seriously, seriously traumatic and potentially deadly experiences with this stranger that Jeff and

Shalia had deemed as her twin flame. But instead of acknowledging that they made a mistake and they messed up or apologized to her for this, they blamed her for accepting the separation. It's so beyond sick. Now by watching all of these videos that I've been looking at about Jeff and Shalia from the very beginning of their relationship till now, you can see that there is a very clear pattern of escalation here, a pattern of escalation with their manipulation tactics, their self-importance, their self-righteousness. And listen to this as Jeff says that he is the master and that we are his students and that you can't teach or challenge the master, that you have to either listen or shut the fuck up. You're my student. You do not school me. If you think that you understand something better than me, by all means bring it to

the table. I invite you to challenge my spiritual mastery. I encourage you. I dare you. But I assure you, you probably don't. And if you don't want to bring it to the table and clearly challenge my mastery and enlighten me, then you should shut the fuck up and listen. So personally, I can see this group becoming even more dangerous than it already is, especially since it's already now being so heavily scrutinized in the public eye, online, in documentaries. So Jeff and Shalia's authority is not only being threatened, but their livelihood is being threatened. And when you have those two things mixed together, that can become very, very dangerous. Now, since they have already convinced most of their followers that Jeff is the

second coming of Christ, it's not hard at all to imagine them convincing the group that the rapture, that Armageddon, or the end of the world, some sort of event like that is going to take place. At this point, if you have enough mind control, you can convince somebody of anything. We've seen it in, what, Heaven's Gate. We've seen it in Jonestown. We've seen it happen before. And you can ultimately manipulate people into taking their own lives, saying, you'll never find your twin flame. You're one flame. Like, this is it for you. You might as well be reincarnated so then you have a chance at finding your twin flame. Or something that sounds so batshit crazy like that, but if you're desperate enough, you may believe it.

So now being pushed to the brink and things being threatened, I certainly could see it going in a direction dangerous like that. They could also convince their followers that since this world doesn't want any of them to be in harmony with their twin flames, that they just need to leave this earth all together and ascend together spiritually into the heavens. I mean, just so much of the language mirrors other cults that we've seen that have ended in horrible, horrible tragedy. And in my opinion, Shalia and Jeff look just like so many other cult leaders that we have talked about and that we've seen out there.

So after former members started coming out with their stories, like I said, Jeff and Shalia have filed lawsuits against them, and they've also filed lawsuits against publications for defamation. But like i said there's also so much evidence an actual evidence of a lot of these claims that i honestly don't think that there's really a leg for them to stand on and that they will win those cases but i guess we'll see defamation is very very difficult to prove i know um and so like i'm not going to go into the details because i'm not trying to give any hints out there

but it's very difficult to prove so I'd be shocked if they won but at the end of the day they're basically just trying to silence who they're calling their haters which get a new original word you have original vocabulary for all these other things and you're going to use the word haters but okay however a lot of these articles did have a positive effect because it caused a lot of followers to realize what was going on and ultimately leave the group. Some followers who hadn't spoken to their family members for years have now reached back out, and they're trying to get back some sort of semblance of a normal life. And for people who were manipulated into actually undergoing these life-altering procedures and physical gender transitions, going these life-altering procedures and physical gender transitions, there's honestly no telling how long it's going to take for them to be able to heal from that irreparable damage that's been

done to now their minds and their bodies. It's horrific to think about the damage here. I don't know. I'm curious to know what you guys think. I do think that I would be disingenuous to not acknowledge that there are many seemingly happy couples in this group from Twin Flames universe, and they claim that they have found their Twin Flame, that they're living in harmonious union. So it's not like everybody's unhappy. It's not like everybody was assigned a new gender or something like that. There are couples who claim to have found their Twin Flame and really be happy. What I will say is if twin flames are a real thing, it is definitely possible that some couples found each other in the group or have benefited from some of their early teachings before it went

completely off the rails. However, just because there are a few little success stories here and there, I don't think that in any way discounts the significant harm that Jeff and Shalia and the group as a whole really has caused so many people and will likely continue to cause because like you said, it is ongoing. It is still active out there. You can still sign up and take the courses. So I personally just really worry about the people who are still tied up in this group and linked to this group, especially the ones that they have convinced to now work for them as coaches, because now their finances and their way of life are all at stake if they decide to leave or if they are kicked out for raising any type of concern or question. And it's almost like they're stuck, which if you're watching this, and you probably are because

I know Jeff's probably making you do your research, you're not stuck. You can get out anytime. Send me an email. I'll help you secretly on the side. Like, honestly, like maybe that's going to be my next pathway in life is like cult escaper or whatever it is. Maybe that's my calling. That's hilarious. You have a rescue center? Yeah. Well, I have a weird thing to bring up. So in other cults, and maybe I haven't done enough research, but were they did they have a social media presence? Some? Yeah. And were they big followings? Because I know I briefly touched on this earlier. But if it were me, and obviously, I've never been in a cult. So I'm not trying to act like I know what that would be like. But with a little light research and digging, you could tell that they don't have a ton of backing behind them

from a social media perspective. So to essentially change your gender, give thousands and thousands of dollars, disassociate from your family, make all of these changes, criminal charges from pursuing someone, I guess I'm just surprised. I would feel like I would need a little bit more validation behind this leader than what the

presence is online. And that was really, for me, one of the big shocking facts was that had I even been questioning this a little bit as a member and looking to see this, I would notice like- Got 3,000 followers. There's not a whole lot of backing behind it how are you God no fair fair point but what I will say is there's not a lot of marketing behind Scientology there's not a lot of marketing behind FLDS or anything like that I think because these leaders are so charismatic and they have such a way of like confusing you and word salad-ing you and brainwashing you that I could see where somebody may think like they don't have a lot of followers because not a lot of people know about this. I'm the special select one.

Yeah, exactly. Okay. Like it takes somebody who has a complete open mind to be to want to join this group and I'm that person with the open mind I'm guessing I don't know fair and if a lot of the commentary on the social media are these select success stories and people who are still engaging in it maybe that reinforces totally it's like the rose what is it the uh you only show the highlight reel on Instagram you only show the good you're not showing the bad look at the end of the, everybody's going to believe what they want to believe. Members might truly believe that Jeff is the second coming. But I also think that Shalia and Jeff don't really believe any of the

crap that they're selling. I think that this is all a facade. I think it's all done in an attempt to expose these people, exploit these people, get all of their money, do all of these things, expose these people, exploit these people, get all of their money, do all of these things, have this control and power. And we even saw it in that one clip. Jeff tries to be, you know, the master of Shalia as well, saying he's just disciplining her. So people will believe what they want to believe. Even after seeing the documentaries, after listening to the podcasts, after listening maybe if they listen to this podcast, they might still believe that he is God. podcasts, after listening maybe if they listen to this podcast, they might still believe that he is God. Who knows? Free will is a powerful thing. But what I will say is hopefully you're able to string together some of the red flags in this and maybe open your mind up a little bit to realizing

and thinking critically that maybe what you're being sold and the dream isn't the reality. Maybe what you're being sold and the dream isn't the reality. And maybe your twin flame or your soulmate is not on the compound he wants to build one day or not on the Facebook group, not in a divine masculine energy masked as a woman. Like, maybe they're at the bar. Maybe it's your sister. Maybe it's your sister. Maybe they're at Cheesecake Factory, but you wouldn't know if you're not going there. So, like, I don't know.

I would say just I encourage everybody to open their minds a little bit but I'm curious to know what you guys think I know this was a super size Big Mac episode so I appreciate you tuning in maybe you've turned it off already and you're not listening but I'm happy that you joined me today as a co-host I think we need to do more of these let me know what you guys think too in the comment section because I love having my sis here she's my twin playing having me you're so welcome i love having my twin flame here with me i love being here but i'm not gonna pay for the courses i'm not gonna do it all right guys thanks for tuning in sound off in the comments below this was a long one i need to go refill this and definitely drink diet coke so bye take care