SERIALously - 133: Ruby Franke & Jodi Hildebrandt: The Disturbing Truth Behind This Revolting Case

Episode Date: March 25, 2024

New horrific details, videos, photos and journals have been released in the case against Ruby Franke and Jodi Hildebrandt. Ruby Franke, known for her Family Vlogger YouTube channel "8Passengers" and Jodi were arrested in 2023 when one of Ruby’s children escaped Jodi’s house and ran to a neighbor, asking for food and water. Authorities then found another young child who also was “malnourished” inside Jodi’s home. Both children had been tortured and tied up.  Zoc Doc Go to https://www.Zocdoc.com/ANNIEELISE and download the Zocdoc app for FREE. Then find and book a top-rated doctor today. Hero Bread Hero Bread is offering 10% off your order. Go to hero.co and use code AE at checkout. Prose Get 50% off your first order at https://www.prose.com/serial Liquid IV Get 20% off your first order when you go to https://www.liquidiv.com and use code AE at checkout. Mormon Stories Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@mormonstories  Jodi Eternal Core Conference: https://youtu.be/rOz5O4ilpiU?si=JgF_2wExo0ovgUWv Follow the podcast on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@serialouslypodcast        Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/annieelise All Social Media Links: https://www.flowcode.com/page/annieelise_      SERIALously FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/SERIALouslyAnnieElise/  Shop the Merch: www.shop10tolife.com    About Me: https://annieelise.com/      For Business Inquiries: [e-mail]

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Adults have a really hard time understanding that children can be full of evil and what that takes to fight it. You've seen what it takes to fight evil. It's not the person you're fighting and it can look like something it's not. And you've been there, you know that? They're going to be in the hospital for three days.

It's so weird. It's just not necessary. I'm trying to exaggerate this. I don't... they didn't show me... They didn't show me any pictures or anything with the way they described it. It was very serious. This is a rich hunt. It's been happening for years. Are we in the news? It sounds like at least you're in the news.

I don't know about me. I don't know what he's talking about. I am wondering if they went to Sherry to ask her questions. I don't know. He's booking her public. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I am wondering if they went to Sherry to ask her questions.

I don't know. He's looking to the public. I know they are, and... Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialously with me, Annie Elise. Now today's episode is going to be a little bit different than the episode I thought I was going to be releasing today because it is all about Ruby Franke and Jodie Hildebrandt. If you've been following this case, you know that there have been massive updates

that were released Friday of last week, but there's still so many people now, even though these new updates are going viral, who are like, what's the whole story? Who are these people? How did we get from A to Z? When did things start getting so bad? And what really were the precursors that led up

to everything exploding the way it did? So what I wanted to do is I wanted to come on here and I wanted to give a full rundown for everybody. Who these people are, how they started, where things started, first taking a hard left and going off the rails, and everything that kind of has developed until today, where we're at now.

Because I think it's truly important to know the history of this entire case so that you can really see what the truth is now. So let's kick it back to the beginning. We all know that the case of Ruby Franke and her cult leader friend, Jody Hildebrandt, has captured the attention of both mainstream media and social media.

I mean, the last few months have just been wild. As I mentioned, last week, officials in Utah released a ton of evidence from this case. And when I say a ton, guys, I mean a ton. So my team and I spent hours going over every little detail this weekend so that we could take you through this case from start to finish. So like I said, let's kick it back to the very beginning

in 2015 when the Frankie family first began getting internet recognition. In 2015, Ruby Frankie and her husband, Franke, decided to start a family vlog channel called 8 Passengers on YouTube. This was to showcase their life with six kids. Now, some of the children are adults now and of legal age, so I will use their names, but I'm going to use initials through the remainder of the episode for those who are minor still, so that it can protect their identities and amenity.

So their six children are Sherry, Chad, A, J, R, and E. At that time, family vlogging channels were extremely popular on YouTube. And after only two years, the Frankie family channel called Eight Passengers skyrocketed to one million subscribers. The family's channel, run primarily by Ruby, focused on the everyday tasks of a stay at home mom, like cooking meals, getting kids ready for school, going on

outings, vacations and to church. The 8 Passengers channel became one of the growing number of LDS or Mormon family vlogs, which gave LDS stay atat-home moms a way to earn money while taking care of their children and running a household. Unlike some channels who kept their religion more private, the Frankies were always outspoken about their religious beliefs. In the early days of their channel, they attracted a loyal following of subscribers who found their content to be relatable and to be entertaining, And at their peak, they had a following of 2.5 million subscribers.

Sponsors flocked to the 8 Passenger's channel as well, as you can imagine, utilizing the demographic of moms to advertise all sorts of household products. However, after the infamous ad apocalypse on YouTube, videos featuring content for children were demonetized, and sponsors like this became crucial to the financial success of family vlog channels. Now, Ruby has said herself that sponsorships during this time earned their channel millions of dollars. After seeing the success that could be garnered by family vlogging, all of Ruby's siblings started their own successful YouTube channels as well.

Now, most YouTubers experience some level of criticism. Let's be real. I know I have. And oftentimes, viewers with genuine concerns do get labeled as haters or trolls. Now, since the beginning of the 8 Passenger's channel, they have had their fair share of haters due to the type of content that Ruby and Kevin were choosing to post about their children. Ruby, who was the primary filmer and editor of the videos, included not only the fun, happy, and memorable milestones that you would think, but she also posted embarrassing moments, punishments, medical information, and details

about the children's schooling. Many people thought that the Frankies were invading their children's privacy, and commenters often voiced their concerns that their whole lives being online could eventually negatively affect their mental health. There were even times when Ruby would use her children for the sponsorship portions of the videos, even going as far as making her children talk about using overnight diapers for wetting the bed after they were already in elementary school. Ruby and other channels have put intimate moments online for viewers as well,

such as the girls first time shaving their legs, bra shopping, going on dates, going to the doctor, and even being sick on the bathroom floor. However, it wasn't just the amount of content that was concerning the eight passengers' viewers. Over time, especially as some of the children were getting older, Ruby and Kevin began discussing their parenting styles and forms of punishments, began discussing their parenting styles and forms of punishments more and more. There are countless examples of punishments and consequences that Ruby and Kevin came up with for the children, but some of them became more disturbing than others. For example, one of the most viral videos of eight passengers was when Ruby received a text message from her then six-year-old daughter's kindergarten teacher.

The teacher told Ruby that he had forgotten her lunch and asked if she could bring her lunch to the school. And this was Ruby's response. Just got a text message from teacher and she said that did not pack a lunch today and can I bring a lunch over to the school? This happens quite often when you're having raising children because I know that her teacher is uncomfortable

with her being hungry and not having a lunch and it would ease her discomfort if I came to the school with a lunch. But I responded and just said, I was responsible for making her lunches in the morning. And she actually told me she did pack a lunch. So the natural outcome is she's just going to need to be hungry.

And hopefully, hopefully nobody gives her food and nobody steps in and gives her a lunch. So some people, of course, believed that this wasn't even a natural consequence and was just plain cruel. An adult who forgets their lunch at home would have the option of then going and buying a lunch, going home to get a lunch or asking someone to bring them a lunch if they wanted. A child with no money and who has no other option but to ask their parent or their teacher for help, which after all is what parents are for, then that's how she responds. However, this wasn't the only instance that Ruby used food as some sort of form of punishment. I'm only gonna say it one more time and then you're gonna lose the privilege to eat dinner. Viewers who consistently tuned into

the 8 Passengers channel started to notice a pattern that Ruby and Kevin's oldest son Chad and the two youngest children became more or less labeled the problem children of the family. They seemed to always receive the harshest punishments, many of which went viral as well. In one of these videos, Ruby and Kevin sat down to talk with their viewers about a decision that they had made due to them being what they quote as selfish and not humble. They told the children that for Christmas, instead of receiving gifts, they would be receiving the gift of truth and love. Because knowing people these days, I don't know if people are going to, you know, how they're going to respond.

So Kevin and I, we have two, well, we have six children. The two youngest are showing long patterns of selfishness. They have been showing through their choices, their unwillingness to repent, their unwillingness to feel sorrow over some pretty egregious choices that they've made. So, Kevin and I have decided that we are going to give the gift of truth to them this year for Christmas. We are going to give them the gift of boundaries, and we're going to give them the gift of repentance. So, we sat down with them, and we told these two what our expectations were, again. And we let them know how deeply sorrowful we've been because of the choices that they've been making, deeply sorrowful we've been because of the choices that they have been making and how it's affected their teachers at school, it's affected their peers, it's affected our home, the siblings. And we just laid it out very clear. And we told them that this year they are not going to be visited by Santa. So they will and we prepped them, we let them

know that the Christmas morning, their four older siblings will be getting Christmas presents to open and that they will have the gift of love from their dad and I. Because we want them to really have a visceral experience that hits them. So up until now, I was really hoping that like keeping them home from school and wiping the floorboards would like really bring pain like, like, oh my gosh, I really want to change this behavior that I've been exhibiting. And then it didn't, it didn't, they like it wasn't painful for them. They're like, Oh, yeah, we get to stay home from school and clean floorboards. This is kind of fun. It's like, ah, so you know, they've had these visceral experiences, you know, and they haven't, they haven't affected them. It's because they're so numb. And so the more numb your child is, the greater experience, the bigger the outcome, they need to wake them up. You're not going to push a boulder with just your hands. You need some real leverage. And the biggest leverage that a little child has is probably Santa Claus. And so I expressed to them that I love your soul more than anything in this world. And I literally would do anything to invite you into repentance. And I know parents say that I would do anything for my kid. But really what I think most parents are saying is I would give anything to you if I would pay any price monetarily. I don't know how many parents are actually willing to put any boundary in place that

would bring a turnaround that would really bring repentance. So that is our gift. At the time, both of these children were under 10 years old. And based on footage that Ruby posted of them, they just seemed like normal kids. There were videos like this where Ruby was seen harshly scolding R for simply leaving his socks outside and being made to do push-ups. You're going to have to go find your shorts. Oh, did you see the socks you threw at the side of the garden? And you are not going anywhere unless you pick up your junk. You've

got crap strewn all around. Now, so you see now I'm using bad language. That's how bad of a mood I'm in. You get your socks picked up and don't you leave your stuff out anymore. Where? Right over there. Run and go pick them up and then give me 10 pushups.

Put them in your pocket so you can take them down to the hamper and drop and give me 10. Put your hands straight out. They're in, they're not supposed to be out. Put them in your pocket so you can take them down to the hamper and drop and give me 10. One. Put your hands straight out. They're in. They're not supposed to be out. Shape your hands forward. There you go. One, two.

Down further. Bring your butt down. Even though just these few examples seem harsh enough, really the most extreme punishments were directed at Chad. In many videos, Chad's parents would embarrass him by reading his text messages out loud at the dinner table and making him discuss things that should have been kept private. However, it was during 2020 when Chad was sent away

that people started becoming ever more concerned with Ruby and Kevin's parenting. During the time that he was away, Ruby never explained why Chad was gone. with Ruby and Kevin's parenting. During the time that he was away, Ruby never explained why Chad was gone. But it was discovered that they had sent him away to a controversial wilderness camp for troubled teenagers.

He program where he's going to spend the next 8 to 10 weeks living in the... Anasazi Desert. Yeah, the desert mountains of Arizona. So you're probably wondering, what did you do? What did OK? Let's we're not even going

to entertain that stuff, but it's it's an accumulation of things over years. Well before we ever started YouTube being or well before we ever got into social media. These types of camps have been heavily scrutinized

in recent years after people came out with horror stories of mistreatment, abuse, and even torture. But even after Chad returned home, he was still forced to sleep on a bean bag in the middle of the living room. And he had his bed and his bedroom completely taken away for seven months. My bedroom completely taken away for seven months. My bedroom was taken away for seven months and then you give it back like a couple weeks ago.

I don't think our viewers know that. You were sleeping on a beanbag. I was sleeping on a beanbag in October and they gave my room back like two weeks ago. No. In this home, you don't get personal space, because this is my space, because I'm the parent. If you want your own personal space, you'll need to get your own space. This is mine. And as long as you're living in my home, it is my job to know everything about you.

You don't get to sneak, you don't get to hide, you don't get to have secrets. Not in my house. Do you see how loving that is? Now if you're in distortion, you're reeling right now. If you're in distortion, you're ready to pull your hair out right now. You're ready to scream. All of these examples and more caused there to be several reports by concerned viewers to DCFS and even a petition with nearly 18,000 signatures calling for an investigation into Kevin

and Ruby for the alleged harm toward their children. However, at the time, all the reports were claimed to have been unfounded. It seemed like there was an even bigger spotlight on the Frankies and on their parenting. And their videos started becoming more and more sporadic. They went from posting every day to every other day, and then just stopped being on a regular schedule altogether. After this, Ruby attempted to start a clothing company called RubyDew, but it ended up being largely unsuccessful.

By 2022, there were no new videos being posted to the 8 Passenger's channel, but Ruby wasn't gone from the internet or YouTube completely. After her unsuccessful clothing line, Ruby began attending life coach and therapy sessions with a company called Connections. And then she eventually started making appearances on the business's YouTube channel called Connections Classroom with the founder Jody Hildebrandt. Jody was briefly mentioned in the video where Chad discussed his wilderness camp punishment and the loss of his bed privileges and he referred it to her as his therapist. I had a phone call yesterday with my therapist and she taught me about truth and distortion. Mom probably talks about Jodi all the time.

I've mentioned Jodi a few times. She has a podcast called connections with an X. So why was Ruby developing a relationship with a woman who previously had her son as a client? Well, it turns out that Jodi wasn't only Chad's therapist at one point, but that Ruby and Kevin sought help from her as well when they were having problems in their marriage.

54-year-old Jodie Hildebrandt is a quote unquote therapist who, like the Franke family, is from Utah and is a member of the LDS church. She was married for a short time in the 90s and had two children before she divorced and she has been single ever since. In 2009, Jodi was placed on a list of recommended therapists for people in the LDS church to seek help for various issues

like marriage counseling and addiction counseling. Specifically, the LDS church views masturbation and viewing pornography no matter how often, as an addiction that needs repentance and therapy. However, several clients who received services from Jodi claimed that she would relay their personal business discussed during therapy with church officials. One of these allegations was actually proven and her license ended up being put on probation for 18 months. So after the eight passengers,

YouTube channel video started fizzling out Ruby became a life coach and listed as a certified mental fitness trainer for Jody's connections company. It seemed like Ruby and Jody were very like-minded individuals because when she began appearing in videos on the channel, a lot of the messages were very reminiscent of how she already was in the past, just much more extreme. The website JodyHildebrandt.com thoroughly explains what connections is and what it strives to do for its clients. It says that the core teachings of connections is that for a person to achieve a true connection with another human being, they must not be in distortion.

Distortion is something that Jodie came up with, referring to people being addicted to something like work, shopping, games, sleep, social media, driving, receiving compliments, exercise, eating, drugs, alcohol, sex, porn, hobbies, or even their spouse. Really anything. Distortion can also be living in shame and denial, knowing that you are not enough, being codependent in your relationships, living in lust, being overly sexually attracted to your spouse, and controlling and manipulating others. Literally, you could find the definition to fit almost any single situation, which, my guess and my suspicion is, that was her goal. Because then you could tap into a client who is experiencing anything.

Jodi explains that everyone is in distortion to some degree, but that she can help you to overcome distortion and live in truth. Jody teaches that there are three core principles which must be developed in order to truly connect with anyone and to avoid distortion. She says that boundaries need to be set to distance yourself from people in distortion so you are not drawn in with them. The three core principles of connections are impeccable honesty,

rigorous personal responsibility, and humility. She encourages clients to refer family members to join the program so that they can also experience true connection. Jody teaches that the truth and the three principles are the only way to true happiness in relationships. Members of the group develop a bond by sharing vulnerable experiences with each other and validating each other's experiences.

As they continue these patterns, they distance themselves from their families. Family and friends are confused about this new term distortion and a whole slew of other new terminology taught by Jody as the only and absolute way to connect. They are then encouraged to attend classes so they too can learn how to not be in distortion. If their friends or family ask questions or raise concerns about the teachings, the student often immediately makes a phone call to their connection's support group to avoid being drawn in to that distortion themselves. If the family and friends don't learn these new skills for Connection, they will be cut off in the relationship for being in distortion. classes, members attend group or weekly meetings with Jodi and other students to discuss in

a more intimate setting how they were in distortion the previous week. The revenue from these group and connections classes that Jodi has made was conservatively estimated to exceed $30,000 a month. The other concerning component is that Jodi heavily weaves in her teachings and her truths with the teachings of the LDS church, cough cough Lori Vallow, like how Christians capitalize pronouns referring to God. In connections, truth is capitalized as if to signify that her truth is the same or just as important as God himself. So the connections, truths in regards to relationship also carried over into parenthood as well.

And Ruby has even blatantly stated that she loves these truths more than her own children. And she doesn't love her children unconditionally, which let's just say, I think most of us could already tell. I love principles more than my child. Yikes! That's a really...and that is the truth. It is the truth.

It's just so disturbing to hear someone literally say those words and talk about these made-up truths as if they are God. Ruby and Jodie would discuss all sorts of topics, but I think the ones pertaining to children and parenting disturbed people the most. If an adult wants to do culty stuff, believe whatever they want, do a bunch of nonsense, that is fine.

But it's when children have ideas and toxic behavior forced on them that it becomes a bigger issue. They don't have a choice. They aren't able to just leave. So that kind of brings us to where we are right now with all of Ruby's disturbing behavior magnified times 100 when Jodie came into the picture. On August 30th, 2023, a man called 911 after a little boy showed up at his doorstep hungry and thirsty. The little boy who identified himself as R said that he came from Jody's house.

Now the man immediately noticed that this little boy was extremely malnourished and he also had duct tape on his ankles and his wrists. So when he asked him why he had those, why he was duct taped, R told him that it was quote personal business. It didn't take anything else for this man and his wife to realize that R needed help and he needed it fast. So that's when they called 911. I just had a 12 year old boy show up here at my front door asking for help.

And he's said he had just came from a neighbor's house and we know there's been problems at this neighbor's house. He's emaciated, he's been problems at this neighbor's house. He's emaciated, he's got tape around his legs, he's hungry and he's thirsty. And he asked us to call the police. So he's very afraid. Okay, and are the neighbors out of their home or is anybody looking for them that you can see? No, we are home with partners away. I'm not sure. How did you get out of the house?

He went out. He said he just left through the porch at the neighbor's house. Her name is Jody Hildebrand and she lives two doors up the street. Out here in Triana the houses are far apart. Yeah, out here in Triana the houses are far apart so he walked just under a block to get to our house. He rang my doorbell and asked me to call the police. Now as the police were coming into the neighborhood, they were stopped by Jodie in her car, who said that she was out looking for a boy.

So the police told her that they were out looking for a boy as well, that same boy. And Jodie was basically like, oh, okay, I'll wait at my house. Then once they got to Jodie's neighbor's house and actually laid eyes on R, it was beyond clear that he needed help and he needed it quickly.

They began cutting the duct tape off of his legs and they moved him into the ambulance. The smell of flesh was all that the officers could smell and the wounds far beyond what most had ever seen was all that they could see. When an officer asked R how he got those wounds, R told him that they could see. When an officer asked R how he got those wounds, R told him that they were caused by ropes that Jodie and his mom Ruby had put on him. He also told the officer that they

would put cayenne pepper and honey on those wounds as a dressing. So as R was taken to the hospital, the focus now was shifting to finding the other two sisters, which R said were still in the house. Now, you know, I'm not really sure what Jodie thought was going to happen in this moment, but boy was she acting surprised and like nothing was going on when the police arrived. Police officers, open up. Jodie, I need you to step out. I have my turn. That's great. Step out of the house.

No, I'm not going to step out of the house. Step out of the house. Step out of the house. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We're just going to stay in the house. Come on, stay in the house. You're going to be out of the home. Wait a minute. How do you come in my house?

Sit right there. Look, they come into my house. So have a seat right there. Do you have a search warrant? Have a seat right there. Do you have a search warrant? Have a seat right there. I'll explain everything after. Have a seat right there. Do you have a search warrant? Have a seat right there. Do you have a search warrant?

Have a seat right there. I'll explain everything after. Have a seat right there. Do you have a search warrant, sir? We're searching the house. I can tell you what's in the house. Okay. Just have a seat right there for me.

Do you have a search warrant? We'll explain it after this. You can't just come into my house without a search warrant. We'll explain everything after this ma'am. Okay, that's one of the reasons why we're here. So we'll explain after everything's done. After we clear the house and make sure everything's fine. But why are you coming into my house without a search warrant?

We'll explain it after this. But that doesn't make sense. You come into my house and do what you want, and then you tell me you don't have a little explain why we did. But don't you have to have a warrant? Not at this moment we don't. We're here on exigent circumstances.

I never explained it after this, so Jody told the police that Ruby was on her way back from Springville, which was where she actually lived and happened to be four hours away. She said that there was only one other child in the house. So she stood outside on the phone with her attorney

while the police searched her house thoroughly. And it seemed like she was more concerned about her attorney missing his flight and also some Airbnb guests being freaked out than she was about what was actually happening. Is there anybody else in the house? Yes. Two kids? There's a little girl. This one? She's right over here. Okay. How old is she? happening. I have Airbnb guests over there. Probably scared them to death. Okay.

Adam, I know you have a flight to catch, so... Well, so they're in your home because you lied to them about... Yeah, I've got a police officer standing right here. Okay. So, I don't want you to miss your flight, so... Well, I'm not going to miss my flight. I'm okay for a minute They found her yet, yeah, yeah, you think there's somebody else in the house, there's not And yes, you heard that right guys. Apparently there were Airbnb guests staying inside this home while all of this was going on.

While R and E were being held and tortured while guests were staying in the home. I mean it is bizarre. She also appeared to be crying during some of the search. According to R, he had two sisters in the house, but the police were only able to find one child. She was hiding inside a closet in the bathroom. Now, initially it seemed like they thought that the child was a boy, but after talking to R while he was at the hospital, they learned that he actually had a little sister whose name was E,

and her head had been shaved. That's why there was a mistake where they thought that it was a little boy at first. And R had told the police that he hadn't seen her in over a month. Now, when they approached E, E was super scared and she would not come out of this closet. While she was in the closet, different medics and officers tried their best to support her and let her know that she was safe. They were officers. They were there to help. She requested pizza, so they brought her a personal sized pizza and also a drink. She ate all of that and she was

still hungry. So then they ordered a large pizza and she went on to eat two slices of that. They continued trying to get E to come out of the closet so that she could go to the hospital to be looked at to be treated to see what was going on. You don't want to talk? Okay. Mademoiselle, I know you want to talk about it all. It's okay to talk to me. Are you scared? I'm just nervous. Well, I'm just nervous. But she told them she was worried that Jodie didn't want her to go to the hospital.

And she also said that she was scared that they would give her vaccines and that quote vaccines kill you. But finally, nearly after six hours after that 911 call had been made, they were finally able to convince E to go to the hospital. During the time that they were trying to convince E to go to the hospital. During the time that they were trying to convince E to go to the hospital, Ruby had shown up at the house and they placed her in handcuffs. Now, what's so weird about this is she didn't seem phased

at all about what was happening with her children. She seemed more like she was annoyed and irritated more than anything. So eventually both Ruby and Jodi were taken into the police station for further questioning. During that, Jodi were taken into the police station for further questioning. During that, Jodi tried to manipulate the police. I'm a psychologist. I've watched people flip things all the time.

So I get it. I sit on your side. I get it. So, you guys seem nice people. I'm not anything. I'm trying to be difficult. This is really... If you knew all the pieces, I think you'd have a lot of empathy.

I'd like to just tell you, but I don't know who you are. I don't know if you're gonna put my words up. I don't know. And I'm an honest person as well. So we get along great. And he just said, Do not say anything. And Ruby? Well, she completely refused to speak at all, which yes, technically it is her right, but she literally didn't even answer

if she had children or not. She just went mute, would not speak. Was this your water? I'm gonna. It's yours if you want it. We'll save that. We also have snacks if you need anything to eat. So I know I introduced myself to you earlier, but my name is Detective Bates and this is

Sergeant Tobler. We're just here to talk to you about kind of a few things involving your kids. So first, are you, do you live down here or? Or do you live up north? Do you want to talk to me about where you live or how many kids you have? So we just spoke with your husband and he said you guys have six kids. Are those all together? Are those all your kids? I can wait all day. So it's up to you if you want to talk to us about what's going on.

Would you feel more comfortable talking to one of us? Or if you feel more comfortable talking to him, I can step out if you want. Or if you feel more comfortable talking to him, I can step out. I'll wait tight in the lawyer. OK. Do you want to answer that? You don't want to talk to us about anything? So yeah, this is just your chance to tell us. We're just trying to get your side of the story.

So it's your chance to do that. But it's up to you. First you have to talk. And I'm not asking any criminal questions. If you don't want to talk to us, just let us know and we'll be done. I've already told you. You want water? Okay. Thank you. So I think this is the glimpse in which we really are seeing the true Ruby. Refusing to cooperate. Again, yes it is her right, but with all of the information about her children

coming out, not a concern in the world, she's acting more irritated than anything, and guys, it gets even worse. So with both adults and then both younger children found, the attention was now turning to the other two minor children, J and A, and they were trying to figure out where they were. The police department then contacted the Springville Police Department where the Frankie House

is located, and they provided them with a warrant to go search the house for the other children. Seven police cars showed up outside the Springville home with guns drawn, and they ended up having to put a hole through the door to get inside. Ultimately, the two other children were not located inside the home and were determined to be with a family friend in a city called American Fork, around 30 minutes away. I'm Officer Hawkins, sir. I'm looking for Pam.

Is Pam in today? Is your wife, she's here? Hello, Pam. How are you doing? I'm Officer Hawkins, American Fort Police Department. If you can, just for a second, we just had to go over some stuff. You have a warrant? Yeah, we do. Let me see it, please. So, it's in my car, but right now, my concern is- Will you just tell them you're alright? Well, we have to physically see her, so we'll go ahead and get the copy of the warrant for you, okay? You have a warrant for my house?

Specifically for you. Yeah, for you and the child. Okay. So, as of right now, I'll just need you to give your phone to your husband. Okay. And as of this moment, you're going to be detained right now, okay? Okay.

So what does that okay? Okay. Okay, so is there anything on you? Uh, no. Okay, perfect. Just put your hands in front of you, okay? I'm just gonna place you temporarily under arrest. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,

wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, attorney that's fine so I just explained to you that you're being detained right

now so I'm gonna do is I'm gonna walk you to my car okay and I'm explaining everything to you when we get there okay tied up in bound because I didn't make her scrub something I didn't make her scrub the floor and they vacuumed and stuff because I have company coming tonight out of from Costa Rica. Okay. So, but she did have her own free will. We had lunch. Yeah. We went to Roli's farm and had ice cream. Those children are, I don't know the full details of how mistreated or how malnourished those children are. Okay. All I know is that's the words and treatment that they used. Yeah. Which means that they are severely concerned of her well-being

And every child that's in that home. Okay, so they'll just have to talk to her and because there has been I've been a part of many DCFS cases where as soon as the parents are hooked up Kids are taken if there's any kids that aren't in the home immediately when the kids are taking guess what? They're scurrying around all the family members are picking them up that way. The parent can come back and grab them before DCFS takes them. Oh yeah. I'm telling you, you may be a good person,

but there's a lot of people in this world that want. Right. Well, if DCFS is supposed to take her, then they can take her. I mean, I'm not gonna try to fight that. I mean, I, you know. Well, that's what they're gonna come talk to you about. They left already,

so they should be here in the next 10, 15 minutes, but Springville just left as I got off the phone with him. So he's probably going to be about 20 minutes. So who? DCFS or whatever it is, is coming? Yeah, so DCFS will come for their part for... And then the detective, Monford, is coming to talk to you. So they're just going to ask her if she came willingly to my house and if everything is

okay? And she has to be taken to the state custody. Oh, she does? Okay. Because I think her parents are arrested. Okay. But after that was when her and Jody were hauled off to jail and they were put in the same car

and they even sat next to each other during the ride and on the way to jail, Jody made sure to tell the officer to not let the kids around other kids and we're going to get into more of those allegations in a minute here and with their reasoning for why the kids shouldn't be around other kids.

So the two of them were hauled off to the jail and they were initially charged with two counts of felony child abuse. Once the news of the arrest spread, a lot of people were wondering how exactly we got here. Lastly, how did this overly strict but seemingly somewhat normal mom, who despite her controversial parenting decisions,

never really had any indicators that she would physically torture her kids. So how did she allow this to happen? And how the heck did we get here? Also, how in the world did these women think that they could ever get away with this? So now let's talk more about the person who many people initially considered the mastermind behind everything, Jodie Hildebrandt.

So many things in this case are so eerily similar and reminiscent to the Valo Daybell case, where you have this woman, Lori, who already believes that she was this powerful, spiritually gifted woman, exalted goddess, I think was the term, and you have her who meets this man, Chad Daybell, dumbbeller, who was essentially part of a fringe group of LDS members, and they really took their beliefs to the extreme. Chad said that he had visions and was now an enlightened, powerful, translated being from his previous near-death experiences, and he believed and preached that he was now able to speak to God, that God was working through him, and he was a messenger to help usher the 144,000 and set

up the new Jerusalem, which would be in Rexburg, Idaho, and also to prep for the second coming, which he said was July of 2020, and hi, we're all here, I think we can agree that that second coming never quite happened. Sorry, Chad. And not only all of that crazy BS, but he also thought that he would be rewarded for his actions in the afterlife. And Laurie totally believed it. Like truly believed it hook line sinker to the extreme. So now Laurie, a previously somewhat normal mother who already had a predisposition to making extreme religious leaps of different ideas,

who already had a predisposition to making extreme religious leaps of different ideas, believing all of Chad's batshit crazy visions for the future so much so that she allowed her husband, her two youngest children, and her boyfriend's wife to be murdered because they were zombies and possessed by dark spirits. And of course, that just happened to have financial benefits for her, or so she thought, I guess, in Charles' case, and she still is in that delusion to this day. Interestingly, one of the books that was so relevant to Chad Daybell, almost like the basis of all of his teachings, was Visions of Glory. And you know who else loves that book and has based much of their life's work and beliefs on that? Can you guess? I'll give you a hint. Starts with a J, Jodie Hildebrandt.

What is the likelihood of that? Two culty nutjobs using the same book to put into play their insane spiritual beliefs and visions. Now let's take a pause on Jodie. It's no secret that Ruby has had her fair share of critics and rightfully so. For some of her decisions, the way she was exploiting her children,

regarding making her children content for the entire internet to just watch, judge, comment on, speculate, et cetera, combined with a parenting style that many believe goes far beyond just strict parenting. But would she be in the position that she's in today, in jail without bond for felony child abuse charges, if she had never met Jodie Hildebrandt and got involved with her company Connections?

Was meeting Jodie in some way a catalyst? And what is Connections? Is Connections a cult? Is Ruby, in fact, brainwashed? Not that that makes her any less guilty in any sort of way, just like Lori Vallow. But what exactly are they teaching at Connections? How long has this been going on? And most importantly, how many other children

whose parents were involved in Connections have had to endure torture at the hands of Jodi or their own parents? This is Connections, according to Jodi. So let me tell you a little bit about what I've been doing. For the last 20 years, I've been trying to figure out how to help my clientele I've been working with tens of thousands of people for 20 years and I've been Asking God about how to help heal them

From this array of mental and emotional illness Okay And so I have been on this journey trying to understand how to use principles that are gods in helping people heal. So that was a clip from the Eternal Core Conference in April of 2020. In this, Jodi describes how she got to this belief system. Jodi grew up as the sixth of seven children and she described her parents as emotionally shut down and that she didn't realize that as a child but she does now Saying and I quote they were emotionally completely not available for me or for any of the other children And so chaos went on in our house a lot and none of us were really allowed to emote other than to get angry

So she learned how to be really nice kind helpful gracious sure, gracious. Sure enough, I ended up with a needing disorder, right? I started trying to control everything because I had no outlet to emote my emotions. I had nobody there to validate me and say, yeah, that makes sense that when your brother, you know, put you into a pretzel, that that would hurt and that you would want to tell him, stop, you don't like that. I wasn't allowed to do that. Here's the key. would want to tell him stop. You don't like that. I wasn't allowed to do that. Here's the key. This is the key. Responsibility. Responsibility. I am responsible for three things. I've learned this over, like I said, over the last decade plus. I am responsible for my own perception, which means my thoughts and then when I perceive I then feel

emotions and when I feel emotions it's because of my perceptions and when I perceive and then feel emotions then I then choose to behave and so I'm responsible for that whole process in everything. Even when I'm depressed. So when I talk to people they'll say, yeah, yeah, that's nice and good, but I have depression. And I'm like, okay, wait, stop. You missed what I just said to you.

And then they'll say to me, are you suggesting that I'm responsible for my depression? And I'll say, yes, you are. That's one thing, if you don't know me, I'm really blunt. Really direct. Some people hate that. Some people love that. It's like, tell me more. That feels right. So there's four principles I want to hone in today on. Choice, honesty, responsibility, and vulnerability, which means be open, be teachable.

I'm hoping that everybody in this room is vulnerable today, that they're open, that you're willing to consider what I'm saying because this is a brand new modality. Not that responsibility is a new concept, but the way I'm angling it towards mental health is brand new. So if you're depressed, it's your fault. And you're not an unworthy person, but you don't have honesty, responsibility, or vulnerability. And now by addressing these issues, which she says is a brand new modality that she came up with, which hello, no, it's not. But if you come to Jodi, she can help you. Other principles that I learned is that in order to connect to yourself slash another person, I have to live honest, responsible, and humble,

I am then disconnected. And disconnection manifests like this, control, aggression, anxiety, these presentations where the person is either unknowingly or deliberately not being willing to take responsibility for those three principles. Their perceptions, their emotions, and their behavioral choices. So I'm either in a relationship or I'm just in a dynamic. Dynamic just means that you and I are talking, but we're not connecting, right? Everybody here knows what it feels like to connect with somebody. I've been talking to many of you over the course of this morning and this afternoon,

and numerous of you, you walk away and I'm like, whoa, that person's connected. They're connected. The other principles to live with include characters of truth, humbleness, honesty, responsibility, and vulnerability. Or else you are disconnected and you manifest control, aggression, and anxiety. She goes on to say that she's learned that the only thing she can control are her thoughts, feelings, and behavioral choices, and that she cannot control anything else. And then she uses an example where she talks about a parent-child relationship.

Oh, I wish I could control them. I wish I could get them to do what I want them to do and you just can't. But when you try, you then could control them. I wish I could get them to do what I want them to do, and you just can't. But when you try, you then disconnect from them, because you go into a controlling posture. You go into a dynamic instead of a relationship with them. So people will say, well, if I love this person, then how do I get them to, and I'm like,

can you hear how you're going down control lane? You can't get them to. Your job is to speak the truth to them about their responsibility, which is their responsibility for their own perceptions, their own feelings, and their own behavioral choices. So no more of this. You made me do this because of you I feel. If you wouldn't have done that, then I wouldn't have done this all of that is called distortion which means distorting the truth so by controlling others that is distortion or distortion

of truth and then she says that each and every one of us is responsible for learning these principles for ourselves and then if you have charge over anyone else, such as children, grandchildren, clients, et cetera, you have a responsibility to teach them these principles too, so that they too can be released from distortion. Okay. Now this next part is actually particularly interesting because of how Jodi says that God told her about distortion. I was teaching about shame and I went to God and I said,

people can't understand the word shame. Do you have another word? Can you give me another word? And I heard one day, distorting the truth. And I was like, brilliant! Distortion! Every single one of us goes into distortion. So and now the grand finale of what Jodi believes to be her purpose and her goal throughout all of this. To me, this is the most grandiose and almost manical rhetoric that reminded me of how authoritarian leaders and dictators are portrayed in movies, giving speeches about taking over the world or something like that.

Or even Dr. Evil, I don't know, take a listen, and if you're watching this over on YouTube, let me know in the comments what you think. Personally, I don't know, take a listen and if you're watching this over on YouTube, let me know in the comments what you think. Personally, I don't think that she's speaking in metaphor. I think she legitimately wants to spread what she perceives as God's message to her, to the entire world. If you will stay inside truth, you will not become ill. You just won't.

I know that some people in the audience are probably like, oh, I don't know about that. Try me out. You start living in truth. I don't know anybody who lives in truth that is emotionally and spiritually sick. I don't know anybody. I don't know thousands of people who have done this. My desire is to spread this throughout the whole entire

world, to teach as many people and therapists and mental health professionals and and health professionals who want to start empowering their clients regardless of where your client has been if they've had traumas or abuses they can heal. Jody says that if you're living in the truth you can't get sick and you can also avoid many other health related problems. Well Jody when you were arrested your lawyer literally asked for an expedited bond hearing because you were experiencing a life-threatening medical issue. So was that a choice?

Were you living in truth? I don't know. You tell me. One of the things I also found while researching was a comment in the Moms of Truth Facebook group. I took this screenshot myself, which you can see over on the YouTube version, so I can 100% verify this was not edited in any way. But it's a comment under a video of Jodi,

where someone asks if she has had Botox. And Jodi responds, I have not had any Botox. It's called living in truth, the complexion of truth. Okay, insert mega-I roll here. I can't. I just can't with her. And let me just add really quick too here, anytime somebody is talking about their direct connection and speaking to God about applying something called principles or being in distortion

or dark spirits or what's the other one? A suppressed person. All of these things. Just for me, my opinion, cult cult cult cult cult cult cult cult. Because nobody else uses those words. Nobody else uses those descriptors. It's somebody who is trying to, in my opinion, brainwash and kind of do some sort of sick mind control over other people. Otherwise, you don't use phrases like that. You definitely don't use verbiage like that. It, to me, just screams cult. I can't say it loud enough.

Just my opinion, don't come and try to sue me, Jodie. Now, one person who could have seen this behavior coming from a mile away was one of Jodie's own family members, her niece, Jessie. Jessie spoke out about the traumatic experience that they went through on the Mormon Stories podcast and also multiple other news stations. The full link to the Mormon Stories podcast episode

will be in the show notes, but take a listen to this piece of it. I was giving Book of Mormons out at school. I had never done drugs. I had never had anything close to sex. I didn't even know, she was convinced I was also masturbating. I was a, like I had a masturb to sex. I didn't even know, she was convinced I was also masturbating. I was a mat, like I had a masturbation problem. I didn't even know female anatomy people could masturbate.

I didn't even know that. But I would, because she was convinced I was also not allowed to use tampons because she was convinced I was masturbating with them, which is insane. So things got progressively... This sounds like projection. I don't know if it's projection. It's so... I know. So things got progressively worse and worse and worse because I wasn't getting better.

She would say, I'm trying to make you so physically uncomfortable that it forces the sin out. And so that's when she started. I would have to sleep outside in the snow. That's when I was. So when she would lock me in this in her, she worked in Lehigh in like the, there was a little side office closet kind of room. It was like a little bit bigger than a

closet, but it didn't have any windows. It had like a table, a chair, an actual closet. And that's kind of about that's about it. So that's where I when I when I was pulled out of school, and I started living with her full time, because she worked, I went with her to work. And that's where I stayed. And sometimes she would lock me in it, sometimes she wouldn't. But I was not allowed to leave. That was like rule number one, I was not allowed to leave that room. And she would have me write out my sins on a piece of paper. And every day she gave me the same newspaper. And I would have to write out my sins and these sins that I was writing out, I was like, and again, I believed all this, I believed this fully. So I was like, oh, there must be more in me. I'm trying, I'm trying to think a bit. Oh, one time I lied to my best friend,

Scotty. And like, these are the types of things I'm writing out. And then she would come back in, take that paper, read it to me, make me get on my hands and knees and beg for forgiveness as she read this back to me. And then she was like, no, this isn't it. This is not it. This isn't all. There's more. There's more. There's more.

And there wasn't. And I would start making things up because I was like, I don't know. And because she was convinced there was more things got worse and worse and worse. And she said, I cannot be around my mom. I can't ever be around her again. Because if she told me the sky was yellow, I would believe her. She has this ability to like alchemy like, like just get into your soul. It's like, though it is horrifying and there's no real way of explaining it to people unless you've experienced it. And, or if you've experienced this level of emotional abuse, there's no way of really like having you, there's no

way of understanding it. Um, so I Narcissistic cult leader comes to mind. Yeah. I don't know if this is, if this is fully true, but from what I understand, she's been diagnosed with many, many issues, including psychopathy. But Jodie is the mastermind here, not Ruby. Ruby is still responsible and like should be arrested for harming her children for

sure. And I'm sure Jodie like used that, used what it was already there, which is what she does. She uses what's already there to her advantage. Jodie is the one doing this. This is Jodi's therapeutic ideas. These are Jodi's ideas that she has been doing for over 14 years. This is not new. This is a pattern. And I cannot, I'm just so grateful that these children A, were taken out of that care, not care,

but out of custody from them. She, she believes this. This is the thing that she fully believes in her own bullshit. She believes that she is inspired by God. Jodi, Jodi. Jodi. Jodi, Jodi. Yeah. And so when you believe, when you have that level of delusions of grandeur, you are so

powerful and so convincing to people. And she, and when you, when you, when you, when you preface it as a, I'm doing this because I'm saving their soul in a in a in a system and in a culture that I mean, she's just playing right into those hands of like, of course I want my child's soul to be saved. Of course. Yeah, no, pornography, pornography is the worst thing, is so evil. She believes if you watch porn, her belief is if you watch porn one time, you're an addict. And if you're an addict, which that would make most people of the universe an addict, then you need surgery because you are sick and Satan is working for you.

And so and I think she I think it also plays into this, like. You are special kind of belief that I think a lot of people like the Mormon Church kind of instills, which is something that I had to like really unlearn because I held onto this belief for a long time that like, oh, all of the suffering is for a purpose. All of the suffering is preparing me. All of the suffering is, you know, purifying me.

It's making me humble. It's making me teachable, you know, like Job. And I think a lot of people justify or rationalize behavior and treatment because of that. I'm just speculating here. But one of the things that is so bizarre about this is how much projection Jodie has. In addition to this interview about this is how much projection Jodie has. In addition to this interview, Jesse also mentioned how much Jodie has criticized the church, how much she hates men, specifically that the vast majority of men are evil, including church leaders, and how some of the leaders are actually idiots. But that Jodie had all of the answers, almost in the way of jealousy or bringing somebody down just because they have what you want.

And in Jodie's case, I believe that it was power. Jessie also said one of the most chilling things to me and it was, if Jodie was born a man, it's terrifying to think about how much power she would have. So just as Jessie has said in interviews, Jodie is still doing the same thing. I think she's making things up about Ruby's son, Russell,

and honestly trying to make him so physically uncomfortable that he confesses or gets out of his distortion and then goes along with all of the ideology of connections. When I was going through the podcast episodes, just the names alone, I kept thinking, why is there such a focus on children or teens and giving advice to parents about how to, in my opinion, control them or shape them to Jodie's standards regarding sexuality? And even just that statement alone is so creepy, but so many episodes were about that. What is this obsession about these sexual elements in children? In one of the Connections podcast episodes

from November of 2022, Ruby talks about medical gauze on children's wounds. And it is so disturbing, but it's also so specific to what they were just arrested for and what the police found at Jodie's house recently. Of course, it could be a coincidence that Ruby happened to make up the exact example her children would later suffer from, but I don't really think so.

You cannot. You cannot put welts on your child's legs and then lovingly apply gauze and expect healing. Now, you might help the scars go away, but the spirit has absorbed the hatred and the venom. So my question is, how many other parents were given this exact same advice? And more than that, how the hell is she still convincing parents to do this? Again, it feels so eerily similar to Laurie and Chad Daybell, where it seems like Laurie was extremely susceptible to these ideas being truths.

I think it's very similar to Ruby being susceptible to Jodie's parenting advice, being like the word of God or holier than now, not only because of her profession, but because of her ideological teachings. And the things that we show and share and the things that many of you are criticizing and calling abusive are actually things that mental health professionals have counseled us to do. We got accused of child abuse when we sent Chad to Anasazi. Guess what? The first thing that they did was take a bed away.

They don't have beds. Kevin literally says they aren't doing anything wrong, and that everything was at the advice of a therapist, which of course, that therapist is Jodi, and this was all to justify their parenting styles to the public. This is just my opinion and speculation, but part of me wonders if for Ruby specifically,

there was another element here. It's been speculated that Ruby has some characteristics of narcissism. And if we're to pretend that's true and she is, well, wouldn't Jodie's entire message and ideology give Ruby the biggest confirmation bias of all time? Because now she's hearing from an expert, an expert therapist in family and marriage-based

counseling that maybe her ideas of harsh punishment meant that she was actually the best parent, that she was enlightened, she was an enlightened being, she was right the whole time, everybody else is wrong, and she used that as a way to feel justified in her actions and make her believe further that she's doing this for her children, to save their souls? And if that's true, what's in it for Jodie in all of this? What is her motive in all of this? Personally, I think she saw Ruby as a meal ticket, a Mormon mom influencer with a very large following that Jodie could use as a way to spread her Mormon mom influencer with a very large following

that Jodie could use as a way to spread her ideology and thinking to the world. Which yes, I know it's insane, but I can see it. A lot of these Mormon moms in that community and who follow the LDS faith, loved Ruby's family, loved watching the passengers videos, idolized them until the parenting styles got a little bit controversial, but loved them.

So if Jodie were to step into that and say, I'm the family counselor, I'm the family therapist, this family trusts me, don't you think that these Mormon mothers who maybe were wannabe vloggers, maybe not, maybe just idolized from afar this family, but don't you think that if they were to bear witness to all of that, it would carry weight with them?

So that if they were having issues within their own families, within their own marriages, they could reach out to Jodie and say, oh my gosh, Jodie, who helped Ruby Frankie's family, who works with them, who works with the eight passengers channel, she's gonna help my family. It's only X amount of dollars, write the check, let her help us. It seems like a very

smart tactic and honestly not very far-fetched in my opinion. And guys, we're going to get into more of that after we hear from the first sponsors of today's episode. All right guys, let's keep it real when we talk about technology. Online dating has made it so easy to just swipe right, swipe left, and weed out what you're looking for in a potential partner, right? Well, wouldn't it be great if you could use that same concept when you're looking for a doctor? One that you can vibe with, feel comfortable with, where you don't need to compromise

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how to be a mental fitness trainer, and we have Ruby here. And Ruby is a part of the original 10 women that are being trained to become mental fitness trainers. So Ruby, you want to tell us about what a mental fitness trainer is? Yes. So we are getting mentally fit. The same way your body would get physically fit by running and lifting weights and working

with a personal trainer, we are getting ready to be your mental fitness trainer. We're getting truth, really easy to teach. We're making it very simple, boiling it down to principles. That's how you're going to understand truth, is really knowing principles, being able to put words to it and help you, and you're gonna feel so much better. Absolutely.

So I'm just gonna span over here. We've got, oh, I can't see. There we go. Tori and Sherry, how are you feeling about what you're getting ready to go out and do? Teaching truth to the world. Excited. So excited.

Excited, yeah. Coming to a town near you. And here's Kim and Jess. Hello. Becky, Liz, Michelle. And then we got Johnny over there. Johnny. And Johnny. Did you get Pam? No, Pam's over here. Johnny is our male person who comes in and does the role play for the male so we can practice. So he's a he's quite talented to do the role plays with us so we appreciate

Johnny. Johnny's a man of truth as well he's also a mental fitness trainer. So so glad that you're with us and any of you who are interested in becoming a mental fitness trainer we are going to open that up to train to the people. So give us a call or email us at supportedconnectionsclassroom.com and maybe you can come to the next retreat for the... Come workout with us. That's right, come workout. Put you to work.

Bye. It has all of the makings of a cult down to a T. And someone who left Connections almost a year ago commented about the reasons why she left online. She said, There are six reasons why I left connections, even though I had already learned good things and prepaid for three months of group, which wasn't over at the time she left. The first one was shame-based learning. She said they drill the material through put-downs and labeling. It's even traumatic for some people and they say if you disagree with them,

then you are wrong, even though they teach you that there's no right or wrong. And they intensely shame you for it, even though they teach against feeling shame. Second is crazy making. They teach you that your reality is off, to not trust your own judgment. They tell you that you did something that you didn't even do and when you can verifiably see that you didn't. They gang up on you and aggressively repeat over and over that you are wrong and that you did that thing and you have to admit it or they will cut you off their terrible communication until you admit you did this terrible thing. To any people individually in connections, phone calls, and in the group setting, you'll all be cut off.

They won't let you move on until you admit it, even if you really don't see that you did that thing. And you can't just admit that you did it. You have to show that you feel really bad about it, using the steps of repentance, but in a twisted way. It's confusing because the principles they are teaching are true and good, and yet something feels off. It wasn't until I got disentangled from it that I realized that it feels off, because you can't learn from them unless you're willing to compromise your integrity and just comply. The third reason was using God to push their point, saying if you disagree with them, you are disagreeing with God.

The fourth reason is an environment that breeds codependency. Their method is quite effective for helping those with addictions come off of their addiction. It's absolutely amazing. If I had an addiction, I might actually sign up again. Unfortunately, it appears they are trading one dependency for another. Jodie has people working for her that don't get paid. They seem just to be happy that she trusts them

with the responsibility. I asked her in conversation how many people she had working for her that she paid, and she evaded the question. She also teaches against individuality. It's set up for you to remain in it. One lady in my group said it was her last week in the group and then thanked everyone for helping her learn. But then, many women ganged up on her and shamed her for leaving, so she stayed. Those who learn from her in groups and individually spend about $10,000 per year to connections, and they have done this for years, scared to quit due to their own dependency. It is unacceptable to work on changing what you want to change in your life.

I started the group with three specific areas of my life that seemed unmanageable to me that I wanted to change. They said I was in distortion if I wanted to focus on those. They require hours of indoctrinating in their methods each day and you have to track it as well. If you spend less time because for instance you're sick or on vacation or it's Christmas, they shame you for it and aggressively say that you've dropped responsibility. The fifth reason being that they talk bad about you behind your back. When they find something wrong with you,

instead of teaching you about that thing, getting curious about it, if they're even right about the assumption they are making, they aggressively tell others about it. They talked negatively and aggressively about me in the men's group. And Jodie individually talked badly about me to someone else during his $175 an hour one-on-one with her. They called someone I love to talk bad about me. And the last reason being that connections promotes cutting people out of your life.

They're not just talking about you. They're talking about the people you love. They're talking about the people you care about. They're talking about the people you care about. They're talking about the people you care about. They're talking about the people you care about. They're talking about the people you care about. They're talking about the people you care about.

They're talking about the people you care about. They're talking about the people you care about. They're talking about the people you care about. find so many words differently, which I think is generally helpful and common with therapists, but this is extreme. And the last reason being that connections promotes cutting people out of your life. Praise isn't given in the group for learning a new concept. It's given when you set unhealthy distancing boundaries with your loved ones. She advocates for leaving spouses at the drop of a hat instead of working together when there is a problem. The principle of being responsible for your own stuff is true, but that's not what this is. This is at the drop of a hat instead of working together when there is a problem. The principle of being responsible for your own stuff is true, but that's not what this is.

This is fault finding, and then using that as evidence to push people away. As far as I know, Jodie herself is estranged from everyone in her family and has very few friends. It teaches in Richest Man in Babylon that you couldn't learn how to be rich from those who aren't rich. Likewise, it doesn't make sense to learn how to connect with people from someone who isn't able

to connect herself. So what do you think? Is connections a cult? Did Ruby's husband, Kevin, buy into this as well? And speaking of Kevin, you might be wondering where the hell he was when all of this was happening and also what his reaction was after Ruby and Jodie's arrests. Well, he was interviewed. Listen to this. So are they all living with you or? No, I haven't seen them for over a year. Any of them? No, none of them. For a year? Over a year. I've been in a separation. From who? From my wife and family. What's your wife's name? Ruby.

Ruby? When was the last time you saw Ruby? The last time I saw her was the 18th of this month we met to she requested me to sign over vehicles or the titles to the vehicles the vehicle that she drives were all in my name. When's the last time you physically saw her on that summer evening? The day that I moved out, July 24th of 2022. 24th of 2022? Or July 25th. When we separated, we were going on 22 years.

And during your marriage, how was disciplining your kids? How would you discipline your kids? Um, yeah, I'm not going to answer that question. Okay, that's fine. Have you been since separated or since they lived here in the city of Ivins. Have you communicated with your wife regarding like discipline with your kids or their care or their physical well-being? No. So is she doing this on her own and just telling you how your kids are? She's not telling me anything about it. Who's this female This female Jodie that your wife looks like, do you know a female named Jodie? She is a therapist and a life coach.

Do you respect her? Do I respect her? I think she is a very honest, truthful person. You place value on Jodie? I don't know what that means. Do you value what she says and how she treats your wife? A client of hers? Is your wife a partner of hers? Is your wife a roommate with her?

If your kids are living in her house is what I'm trying to say. I'm unaware to say. I'm not aware of that but I know that they've been in business for the last year filming... Whose day? Ruby and Jodie. They film podcasts and so every week a podcast goes up and I listen to it. So I recall the exact time that sometime before 11 o'clock today, we received a phone call from 911 on our dispatch that a 12 to 13 year old boy was knocking on doors in the neighborhood asking for food and water. That he was severely emaciated that he had was emaciated

skinny strong Malnutrition not enough food not on water to sustain life So he had started what he had duct tape on his extremities on his hands tape on his extremities, on his hands, on his ankles, and those were covering rope burns that were used to tie him down. Take a second and think about what I just That's the condition of your son. Given that information, your son was taken to the hospital. A warrant has been applied and granted by the Department of Child and Family Services to remove him from your wife's care. So no one right now is going to have access to these two children based on their physical condition.

Do you understand that? I understand. Do you, would you condone that behavior? Would I cond on that behavior. That's my job. My job is to find out your knowledge of the treatment of these these. Based on your description. No, I don't know the details.

As you described that that sounds horrible, horrible, disgusting. No human being should be treated like that. I, yeah, okay. That's my thoughts. But again, we might be different on that. Um. We're going to like, stay here for a second, okay? We're going to go out and talk. Um. I'm not saying you're, you're still not free to go. Are you under arrest? Absolutely not.

We just have lots of questions we need to figure out. Lots. Okay? Your children are under medical care right now. And what does that mean? It means that you don't have access to them. My understanding is that they are...what is that? They're in the custody of DCFS. And they will be for the next seven... There's a medical hold on them right now.

So for at least the next 72 hours, based on our understanding. At least the next 72 hours. During observation, they're being watched. DCFS is going to provide you that information, and they can better answer your questions along those lines. What's going to happen to my wife? I love my wife. I don't know. I'm being honest with you. I don't know. I don't have any real charges against my wife. Possibly.

charges against my wife possibly I think given the circumstances that's highly appropriate but again I don't know your wife I was hoping to gain some insight from you but I don't necessarily know that that's something you wanted to I trust her but what you wanted to travel down this means no. And all without legal representation. Yeah, alright, I get it. But I love them and I trust them. And so, I mean, this feels like getting run over by a steam truck while you're sharing with me today. Yeah. You guys can tell you're caught off guard.

I thought I was just coming here to pick up my kids. And for what, I don't know what or why. But... And I was finding I'm taking them back with me. Like, I want to... So... You realize that I have a picture of my family on my wall. And I look at it every day.

And I work. I work. Every day. So I can get back to my family. And say to my family. Everything you're sharing to me just sounds like a made up story. Like I have no idea what you're talking about. Like... It's just, it sounds like a horror movie. I get it. You're all good on your jobs.

I get it. I understand and this is my life I just want my kids I just want my kids, it's not my family. I don't have your phone number. I don't know what's going on. I don't know why these things that you described happen. I don't know. It's almost like I want to say, I'm sorry. You must have somebody else.

Because the... have somebody else because it's like am I in real, you know. I have a hard time accepting this and dealing with this. And you're telling me that you're taking my kids from me. I don't know what my plan is. I'm trying to go to college. Sure. And I figured this out. Right. I am just heartbroken for what you all are sharing with me. I feel like, I feel responsible. It's separating the breathing.

It hurts. And the uh... I wish I was a better husband. I know you're all doing your jobs. And I know you all have the best interests of my kids. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thanks. That means a lot. I just want my kids back. I want my family back. I want my wife back. After being interviewed, Kevin was never charged, but still the question of course remained, was he going to sympathize with Ruby or was he going to stick by his children?

So how long this separation was lasting, I wanted to think of some ways that I could I could bring in money or make some money if she didn't ever come back. So I would... That's when I asked if she worked pro-sign-up alone if I found a house and maybe I could Airbnb it or rent it out or I've been playing with numbers in my head and I think I could make something, but I don't want to be dumb and I want to be very conservative. So I pulled the money and I have it in a bag and... With you? Do the police have it?

Well, I don't know what the police took. I don't know what the police have. But the bag is at Jody's house? They can't just take people's money. I mean, that's not right. Well, you're not going to take the money, but when they have a search warrant, they have access to everything in the house. Yeah. I have a feeling we're going to need that money.

Okay. I just received a text from Ted Dawson out of the blue. Ted Dawson, who I haven't heard from in years. He just texted you? Yeah, the story's out. So he said, Stormy sent me an article and it just broke my heart. I just wanted you to know I'm thinking about you and if I can ever be a resource. We are always here. Are we in the news? I just wanted you to know I'm thinking about you and if I can ever be a resource, we are

always here. Are we in the news? It sounds like at least you're in the news. I don't know about me. I don't know what he's talking about. I am wondering if they went to Sherry to like ask her questions. I don't know. These bookings are public.

I know they are and... Yeah, maybe it was a bus thing. This is a witch hunt. The devil's been after me for years and I was an attorney. Okay. Well, you know that this phone call is being recorded. Trust you. So... They're then asking me to go to the hospital.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I, you know that this phone call is being recorded. I trust you. So... They're going to be in the hospital for three days.

It's so weird. It's just not necessary. They're trying to exaggerate this. Well, I... They didn't show me......the hero. No, they didn't show me any pictures or anything of the way they described it. It was very serious. And please see the truth. I know it's obscured. I'm...where I see the facts, I see the truth and that's what I'm gathering. You know my heart. What are they charging me with?

Two charges of second degree felony for child abuse. You charge a second degree felony child abuse? Yes. Okay. Wow. That's very serious. I have... It's interesting. I had the prompting over the last month to read Victor Frankel. I was reading him and it was like the worst part was not knowing the end. He said those who... He said he had an inmate that's man-searched for meaning who was a prisoner in World War II and he said the worst part and the greatest bringing of depression was not the lack of food and it wasn't the weather conditions. It was not knowing how long it would last.

So I think I was prepared for this. I do feel strong and I feel calm and you know what? They may... Adults have a really hard time understanding that children can be full of evil and what that takes to fight it. You've seen what it takes to fight evil. It's not the person you're fighting and it can look like something it's not. And you've been there, you know that. And so, I don't know any adults who are going to see the truth. So, I'm calm about this and I just pray that you'll hang in there. I think I can call back, but...

Yeah, but just in case, I'm preparing to step up and fight for the children that have been taken. And there's going to be a hearing in the next couple days here in Provo. Would you say that one more time? Yes. I'm prepared to step up and fight for the children. They've been taken into custody. They're in foster care and there's going to be a hearing within the next two or three days. What about Abby and Julie? Then too, all four were taken.

Where did they go to get Abby and Julie? I don't know. They, while I was with them, they got Abby and they were looking for Julie. You have exceeded the allowable time for this call. You had to put her in a chair and it was horrible. It was torturous last night hearing the screaming and the banging and people. It's like, okay, that's upsetting. But the most upsetting thing is that I am completely misunderstood. That is the most horrible feeling. Like my own family misunderstands me.

They misinterpret me and poor Jodi, they misinterpret her. They misunderstand her. She puts her neck out on the line for people and then they get mad at her. I mean, it is just horrendous. It's horrendous. And you know what? Every Joseph Smith, every wonderful man of God has had to be misunderstood. That's right.

And you know, I'm going to get out of this. Who knows? Maybe in 10 days I to get out of this. Who knows? Maybe in 10 days I'll get out of this if I'm... If the truth prevails right now or who knows like 20 years. I don't know. I don't know how long that I'm going to step out. I'm going to say I went through everything. I have seen God's children suffer.

All the people here, my jail cellmates have been beautiful women, but they've been hurt. You know, they've been deceived into drugs and my heart has just so much compassion for them. compassion for them and I have compassion for the cause and I have compassion for myself and I and then to be told that I'm suicidal and like no, no that's not true. Anyway um if you need to... How about Sherry? How about either Sherry or one of your siblings? Well, they're all in cahoots. One means all of them, but yes, you're right. In your hearing, I don't know if you've considered this.

I don't know if it would be helpful, but you could have the house. Yeah. And if all the kids go to the house, you've got room there and I will gladly stay away and let you guys be. So, I don't know if that's helpful. I'm just giving it to you if it is. Thank you. And in the discussions with my attorney, that's the only way that we're going to retain custody

of the children. That's fine. There is 35 years in this and he said even if you are acquitted and are released, they will place legal restrictions on your access to the under-18 children. I figured such... I figured such... God told me... God told me when I was driving before I called you.

I didn't have any information. I didn't know anything and the Spirit said, your children are going to be removed. And I just cried out loud. I'm like, no, I'm not done. I'm not ready. And God told me I'm done and I just... So Satan has taken everything away from me that I love and I'm a good woman. I don't do naughty things.

I don't do naughty things. I'm a really good girl. Ruby, I'm going to do everything that I can to keep truth in our family and... Thank you. I'm committed to our family. I'm committed to you and our marriage no matter what happened. Thank you. Thank you. I will be here to support you in any way that I can.

Well, thank you for stepping up. You need to go. Okay. All right. Call me back when or if you need. When will you find out? How can I call you? When should I call so I find out what they say?

I don't know how long this will go, but if you call this afternoon, I will know. This is a preliminary hearing, so there will be no... Okay, well it's hard to get a phone around here. I asked for a phone and it took hours to get it, so... Then in a second interview, Kevin was a little less guarded, and he really shed some light on some of the crazy shit that they were into. he really shed some light on some of the crazy shit that they were into. Ruby had a very close friend named Paige Hannah, who lives in Mapleton, who was a massive fan of connections and Joey Hildebrand.

For the fall of 2020, there would be a conference and Ruby would say, I thought we were just attending it, but then she'd say, hey, they wanted us to get up and tell our story, you know, and I'm like, oh, okay, sure. So I get up and just say, like, yeah, I was the guy who said, I think this is a bunch of, like, you know, man-hating, you know, women, but it really has made a difference in my marriage. And it really did, like, but it really has made a difference in my marriage. And I, it really did.

Like, I believed it. Um, and so those conferences and stuff, everything continued conference down in St. George, all the, like the inner circle, all the people who were being trained as mental fitness coaches and stuff. So that was Ruby and a bunch of other people and their spouses. We went out to like a dinner afterwards and that's where Jodie really opened up to the women in a private conversation that she believed she was being tormented and haunted by shadow figures every night. and that was spooky you know and I don't know exactly what happened but the hand is due. All I know is at some point within a couple days of that and that month of March, the Hanna's drove down from Mapleton and picked Jodie up and brought her back to their home

in Mapleton. And she lived for six weeks in that home in Mapleton. And this is where, like, I don't know what happened, but I do know that there's two different sides of stories. They tried to introduce her to a new cult lady that the Hanna's were getting into, so they wanted to merge their cults into one, apparently. And, um... They refer to it as a cult into one apparently. And, um— You refer to it as a colt at the time?

Oh, no. No one in a colt says, I'm in a colt. Right. That's what I was wondering. But from your perspective, it looks like two colt leaders merging together. From where I stand now? Absolutely. According to Jody, she was held against her will for six weeks, and was kidnapped, and

she escaped and got out. According to the Hanna's, after six weeks of Jodie stabbing herself with forks and knives, cutting herself and wanting to commit suicide and trying to seduce the husband of the family, they kicked her out. I don't know what's the truth with her. Maybe a little bit of both, I don't know. But the point is, somewhere around mid-April, Jodie was back in her home in Ivins and she was a hot mess. And she reached out to Ruby for help. And Ruby, Ruby was always jealous of the Hannes that they had a better relationship with Jodie than she did. Ruby, this is like goes back to her childhood. She wanted to be

the best friend. She wanted to be the most liked. She wanted to be the best friend. She wanted to be the most liked. She wanted to be the the one that everybody knew and And so it hurt her that she felt like she was being excluded from what was going on at the Hannah's house And then she'd say why are so many secrets and the Hannah's would say it's not secret It's sacred and when the times right you can know too, you know And when the time's right, you can know too. So we went down to Jodie's house in May of 2021. That was the first time I had ever been there. And it blew my mind as I'm sure you have walked in there

and gone, how does a therapist live like this? Like, it doesn't even make sense to me. But we were there and she opened up and talked about, you know, her struggles and what was going on. And I gotta say, like, I'm a smart guy. I'm an engineer. I've designed and helped build some really big stuff. I've been a college professor.

I can't explain some of the stuff that happened while we were there. Like crashes in the basement while we were talking upstairs. And plates like in the kitchen just flying off by themselves, like full speed smashing on the wall and then falling to the floor by themselves. I can't explain it, but I saw it with my own eyes and I don't have any way to explain it other than there's some crazy shit going on.

Ruby was convinced that we could intervene and help Jody. I didn't want a think to do with it. I tried to get the bishop involved and say, Hey, go to the priesthood and the church and all that stuff. Just go to your support network. But Ruby continued to be like, no, we can help. She doesn't want the, could you imagine what happened to her reputation of this got out and stuff?

Let's help her. So we went down a couple more times between May and August, but it reached the point where in August, her bishop at the time, a guy named, he's down there, named Kayenta named Scott Galbraith. He's not her bishop anymore, but I mean he was going over there like every night and he'd be there for like four hours and just then he'd be like, yeah I'm fighting evil spirits, I'm casting demons out, and crazy stuff going on. And finally he got to the point where he was like, I can't do this anymore. Like there needs to be some sort of resolution.

It was at that point that they said, Why don't you take her up to your house? And I was like, hell no. I don't want this in my house. But I was beaten over the head with it. That's really insensitive. She's done so much to help our family, and you're being selfish, and she has needs

and come on, it won't be for long. And so I relented and I was like, okay, actually, you know, this could kind of be fun. Let's just make it fun. And we'll like, she needs a vacation. So we'll just go take drives up the canyon and stuff like that. And it turned into just a crazy house. The

moment she showed up in my house just the weirdest crap started happening. Lights turning on and off, sounds of people walking and walls and like sounds like footprints going up walls and across the ceiling and stuff floating around. And it was just, it was weird and I hated it. And I became the resident exorcist. That was the title I came up with myself. I thought it was kind of funny, but it was my job. Like go and give her the lessons.

Whenever she started going to a trance and going to possession, which started to be a lot. And Ruby would go up and check on her. It started every four hours at night, and then it moved every two hours at night Then it moved every hour at night and then at some point Ruby said, you know what? I'm just gonna start sleeping in there If I need you I'll come down and get you That's kind of weird but okay and and that was that.

They started sleeping in the same bed. Then she started having trances and stuff, I would say probably September, where she believed that she was going to heaven and seeing God and Jesus and talking with them. She would get together with Pam Botcher. Ruby, Pam, and Jodie would get together and do these interventions. That's what they called them. So they'd just go up and lock themselves in a room for four or five hours. And then they'd come out and they'd all just be on cloud nine. And Ruby would share with me, like, she had this amazing vision.

And I wrote it and recorded it all down. And we have a work to do from God and you're part of it and the bishop's part of it and we're all part of bringing all this stuff to the world. So it was, and it continued like that until I wanted to move on with life. And I would call it dragging my heels, so that was around October. And Jodie flipped out because during one intervention, Chad was in the backyard with a bunch of friends and it was my job to keep all the kids contained

in the basement watching movies or playing video games. And I took the dog on a walk and I thought they were done, but they weren't done. And Chad had all his high school friends over in the backyard. Jodie flipped out. She was ready to come back to Ivan's on her own that night and Ruby and Pam talked her into staying. But that was the first night where Ruby said, I want a separation from you. And it was an in-home separation. And so it was,

it was hard. Basically there were all these rules now placed on me. Like, I could leave when I wanted, but I couldn't come back until Ruby gave me permission. I couldn't come into the kitchen to eat until Ruby gave me permission. And the upstairs where Jodie roamed was completely off limits. I couldn't go upstairs anymore in my own house. And there would be, Ruby would dictate all of the terms of how our interactions would be, when we would talk. And that was hard. And it was during that time that I really became, I would say, dependent upon Ruby.

Like, if she said a kind word to me, like, my whole day was made, right? So that separation continued all the way up until the holidays, maybe. Maybe the last week of December, first week of January. And then Ruby ended that separation. Jodie went home the second week of January, but by that time, Ruby, Pam, and Jodie were completely determined to do this work that they felt God had for them.

I thought it was crazy. I thought it was just that shit crazy. Like Ruby, you have a reputation, you have a multi-million dollar business, you have a brand, and you are just giving it away. She wanted to legally work with Jodi's attorney to basically give Jodi eight passengers and and become an employee of connections. So basically the contract was Ruby gives Jodie everything and Ruby gets nothing in return

Our manager Our YouTube manager at the time was like red flags red flags like I don't know how to tell you she is scamming you Ruby fired him And I was like I believe our, I think he's right. And Ruby started threatening me with another separation. And just like, this isn't about money, this is about doing God's work. So we continued in that dynamic for the next six or seven months until she went on a trip with Jodi and Pam down to Arizona and I think they like when I read her journal that she

went into Mexico or something and bought drugs or something like prescription drugs for the emergency kits. And when she came back from that trip, before she even brought the bags into the house, she pulled me in and said, I want to talk with you. And that's when she asked me to leave. And that was July 20th, 2022. by 2022. My interactions with Jodi at that point became one of- I have a question I would have, just going back,

you said that she was having these visions. Did we ever privy enough to understand or were you told what those visions were? A couple of them. What were the two that they should tell you about? So like one of them, she would, was walking along the beach with Jesus and Jesus challenged her to go to walk on the water.

And it was a whole lesson on walking on the water. Another, she would walk with Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother and she learned about, she had a pet lion in heaven named Charles. I don't know why I never forgot that name, but it was like this massive lion and she got to ride the lion and learned that all about who she was and this pet lion. There was another one where there was a lot of satanic ones where when she would go into possession mode, she would talk in different voices. It was really creepy.

But the voices would say, she's ours. We're not letting go. She is Satan's bride. She's mine. I'm going to marry her. You know, so if she was faking it, she believed that she was trying to or Satan wanted her as her bride. But the few people in their lives who didn't support Ruby from the get-go were her oldest

daughter Sherry and Ruby's sisters. In fact, Sherry had been trying to get her siblings taken away well before R ever escaped. And Sherry was the reason people had even started to find out that something was going down. So she had made an Instagram story that said, quote, finally. And in that there was a picture that showed a police officer holding a gun on the sidewalk outside of their Springville home. And then over the next couple of days, she kept posting.

In the first post, she said, quote, today has been a big day. Me and my family are so glad justice is being served. We've been trying to tell the police and CPS for years about this and we're so glad they finally decided to step up. Now it was obvious that Kevin was not happy about Sherry speaking out and that the two of them had a very strained relationship. And two days after Ruby's arrest, Kevin was actually trying to get his own daughter, Sherry, arrested for burglary. Sherry had gone to their family house and she had taken his, Ruby's, and Chad's passports, Macbook computers, journals, and she ended up giving everything over to the police, who

then gave it back to Kevin. But when he picked up the stuff from the police, he made it clear that he wanted his own daughter arrested for burglary, which just further seemed to show his support towards Ruby and not the children. She was trying to show evidence. She was trying to help her siblings. He was trying to keep it hush hush. And what I think is really interesting about this too is in one of the first conversations that Kevin and Ruby had after Ruby was arrested, one of the things that she asks Kevin is, do you think the police are gonna try to talk to Sherry? As if they knew that Sherry would blow the lid off of this whole thing. Within a few days of the arrests,

there was a shelter hearing in juvenile court regarding Ruby and Kevin's four minor children. It was a hearing to determine who the children should be placed with. And according to witnesses and reporters, during this hearing, Ruby made some extremely, extremely disturbing allegations against her son R. Ruby accused him of inappropriately touching other children, including E, and even said that he encouraged her to touch other children as well. She said that he disguised this behavior as a quote padding game and said that he confessed

to touching 20 different people, including neighbors and various family members. She also claimed that he is addicted to pornography and that he has been viewing it since the age of three. So when this allegation came out, of course, a lot of people started wondering, you know, if this alleged touching has been going on for years and for so long and there are so many victims, why didn't she as the parent get her child help or report it? You know, instead of having her friend tie the kids up in the basement and starve them and abuse them.

Also, many people have pointed out that if a child is looking at explicit content from the age of three, then that is a parent issue, not a child issue. No three-year-old knows how to search those topics, and if they happened upon them by accident at three years old, they wouldn't even have any idea what was going on. Now, other people have wondered why a three-year-old would even be left alone with any type of device long enough to be able to intentionally view that kind of content. It doesn't make any sense, especially when you consider that Ruby pretty much stuck a camera in her children's faces from the moment they woke up to the moment they went to sleep.

So when was Russell supposedly able to do all of this? Others have also pointed out that Kevin and Ruby had cameras like nest surveillance cameras all over their house for security, and to also capture candid moments to then use on their channel. So surely, if he was compulsively looking at all of this from the age of three, they would have known. Not to mention her other children have had their doors, bedrooms, beds, and entire lives taken away for much less. Or was this yet another thing that Jodie quote helped our realize?

Just like how in Kevin's interview with the police he said that Jodie helped him realize that he was addicted to pornography. Which I also just want to say, Jodie's definition of addiction to sex and pornography or anything like that is nothing like the general consensus of what an addiction is. You could look at porn once and she would call you an addict. So after that first court hearing the rest of the family court proceedings have been closed to the public and honestly that's probably for the best. However, it's been reported that all four of the children are under the care of DCFS despite Kevin's attempts to gain

custody. Now, somewhere along the way, it seemed like Kevin and Sherry began mending their relationship, or at least setting their issues aside for the sake of the younger kids, because in October, Kevin, Sherry, and Chad were all seen walking into court together

with their attorney for a custody hearing. Then, in November of 2023, Kevin filed for divorce. Initially, Kevin's attorney, Randy Kester, said that Kevin refuses to sling mud and point fingers, this after the accusations that were made that he could have saved his children. His attorney spoke out on multiple news outlets to give Kevin's side of the story.

Now, I've gone through a lot of his interviews throughout the past few months to kind of piece together what Kevin's position has been and how it's all changed through time. So take a listen. That's the first question that I asked Kevin. I know that everyone has that question about why was he not there? Why was he not involving himself in his kid's life during that period of time. But it's become abundantly clear that both he and his entire family were being manipulated by someone who's

a so-called professional in mental health and in therapy and counseling, Jody Hildebrand. They came under her penumbra. She basically took over their lives. Ironically, this is how twisted the advice was that she was giving them was that Kevin needed to be out of the home, away from his children and away from his wife, separated from them in order to save their family and save their marriage. And Kevin's a man who was desperate to save his marriage and his family.

He loved his wife, he loved his children, but took this corny advice of this therapist and was absent from the home for 12 or 13 months until all these horrific allegations came forward. What about before then though? I mean, there are a lot of allegations with regard to the previous allegations that were referred to DCFS. If he's done nothing wrong,

why is the state still keeping control of the kids, right? I mean, if he did nothing wrong in any other case, the other parent would be able to take care of the kids. It's an absolutely fair question, but because of the absence, his absence, and because of the manipulation by Jody Hildebrandt upon these children who she pretty much had under her exclusive control between she and Ruby, there has become a rift. These children have become brainwashed and actually at this point are being held by the state in an effort to finalize and get some expert professional help to help them overcome this

brainwashing that they have. Let's talk about that for a second. First of all, before I get into Jody, do Kevin, your client, and Ruby, have they been talking at all while she's in jail? The last conversation they had was last Friday. And that's when during that conversation is when he came to kind of came to his senses about how he'd been manipulated and deceived. Are you saying he confronted her about these allegations? To some degree. I don't know the entire contents of the conversation. But in his discussion with me was that

during that conversation, things were said that made him realize how he'd been deceived and misled. And as I told you earlier, he didn't even know the kids were in Ivins. You had just said that he knew that he that excuse me, that Ruby and Jody were working together. So how was he that shocked if he knew that, you know, they were working together, and maybe she had brought the kids with him? I mean, did he not think that perhaps Ruby had taken the kids to Jody's house? Typically, she would tell him something like that, but she didn't.

She didn't. She had the kids down there from about late May, I think maybe June until this all came about. And he did. She didn't tell him one thing about taking the kids to Ivan's. What does he say about Jodie Hildebrandt? That she's manipulated him in conjunction with Ruby, that she's been kind of the spearhead toward essentially destroying his life and destroying his family How did Jodie and Ruby get connected? Does Kevin know? I don't know. Mm-hmm

I don't know is this Kevin I mean again is Kevin believing that perhaps it was Jodie who was manipulating Ruby in this or Because it also sounds like Kevin feels he was manipulated by Ruby. Is it just all the blame on Jodie? I think it was a team effort, but with Jodie being the spearhead. In mid-December, Ruby pled guilty. But before we talk about all that guys, we are going to take one final break to hear from the final sponsors of today's episode. So if you've been watching my recent videos, you probably realized that I went like mega platinum blonde. And honestly, it was a little scary because I know the kind of damage that bleach can do.

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using promo code AE at liquidiv.com. 20% off liquidiv.com code AE. As a part of her plea deal, she would be required to plead guilty to four of the six counts of child abuse. She also would be required to testify against Jodi and spend one to 15 years in prison for each of those four counts. A little over a week after she did plead guilty, Jodi ended up taking the exact same plea deal as well. So what exactly did they plead guilty to? So according to court documents, RF was forced to do physical tasks for hours and days at a time. This included wall sits, carrying boxes full of books up and down stairs, and working outside.

Eventually, RF was forced to do outside labor without shoes and in the summer heat. He was to stand in the direct sunlight for several days. He was forced to remain outside at all hours of the day and night for extended periods of time. These actions resulted in repeated and serious sunburns with blisters and sloughing skin. RF was denied water for several of the days that he was required to remain in the summer heat too, and then he was punished when he secretly, quote, secretly consumed water. He was denied sufficient food and when given food he was given

very plain meals such as rice and chicken, while others in the house ate regular and more flavorful meals. He was isolated from other people and denied all forms of entertainment, including books, notebooks, and electronics. And it gets fucking worse. After he attempted to run away the first time in July, his hands and feet were regularly bound. The bindings included being tied to his mother Ruby and also to weights. tied to his mother Ruby and also to weights. Now many times the bindings included using two sets of handcuffs,

one on his wrists and one on his ankles. At times he would be lying on his stomach and ropes were used to tie the two sets of handcuffs together so that his arms and lower legs were lifted off the ground, which from my understanding, it means that he was essentially hogtied with handcuffs. It is absolutely barbaric and disgusting. The bindings also caused injuries to his wrists and his ankles where the handcuffs

had cut through the skin and actually damaged the muscle tissue. These injuries were treated with homeopathic remedies and then covered with duct tape. Then, the bindings were placed on top of the duct tape. Specific instances of abuse that was committed by Ruby herself against her son included kicking him while she was wearing boots, holding his head underwater, and cutting off oxygen by placing her hands over his mouth and nose. The abuse began in May and it escalated throughout the summer months. Additionally, Ruby and Jodie regularly sought to indoctrinate RF and convinced him that

he was evil and possessed, and also that he needed to willingly be obedient to avoid punishments. And they tried to convince him that the punishments were necessary to repent. He was also told that everything that was being done to him were acts of love. I mean sick sick sick. Now for her younger child, who is going by the initials in this document, EF, in addition to also being bound and tied, she was subjected to the same treatment as her brother with the tasks, the water, being outside and not getting any food. She was also repeatedly told that she was evil and possessed and that

the punishments were necessary for her to be obedient and to repent and these things were being done to her all in order to help her, again, according to Ruby and Jodie. EF was convinced, too, that she was evil and that she needed to go through these things in order for her to repent. It's heartbreaking. She was forced to work outside in the heat barefoot, and she was also forced to run barefoot on dirt roads for extended periods of time. Her feet were repeatedly injured and she was repeatedly sunburned. When examined on August 30th when the arrests first happened, these wounds were apparent by scabs, blisters, and sloughing skin. It is so

cruel, so disgusting, and guilty or not whether she's accepting responsibility or not, it is inexcusable. It is absolutely barbaric. Now guys that wasn't even all of it and this is where all of the bombshells really exploded last week because the county released everything. A lot of it has been redacted even in mainstream media but I'm gonna go over it with you as much as I can in an uncensored way without censoring things that are highly, highly specific and graphic related to the children. But you'll understand where I'm going as we go through this. So when the police searched Jody's house, they collected a shit ton of evidence. First off, they took photos of everything

in the house. And when you see the photos of the house, it is very, very eerie. The house barely looks lived in. It's almost like 80% of the house was just completely empty. Now it is a 9,000 square foot home, so it's a lot of space to fill, but still. It also makes sense now when you think of the Airbnb guests who were staying there at the same time that these kids were literally being held captive, it was a lot of space. They could have been on an entirely different side of the house. Now some of these photos throughout the house also showed a few different wound stations. Now what I mean by this is there were like little makeshift setups where there were these

huge bowls full of cayenne pepper, honey, this like mixture that they had made, gauze, saran wrap, and band-aids. There were ropes, shackles, and duct tape all around the house, which were obviously used to tie the kids up. There were also pictures of the weights that were used to tie the kids down, and many of the ropes and the shackles

were found in what looks to be a panic room. It's an underground concrete garage-type basement basement area and the door to gain access to it is this huge lock that almost looks like a large safe kind of almost like a bank safe like it's this huge safe door that is literally the size of a normal door. It's crazy and inside there there was a small mattress, a toilet, a microwave, and a sink. Then probably worst of all was the discovery of Ruby's journal entries. Now I went through the journal entries. It was over 60 pages, guys, and I'm not even sure she was being truthful in there about

everything that she was accusing the kids of doing because she does accuse them of doing a lot in these entries, but she admitted to some pretty insane things throughout it. A lot of the journal was redacted for the protection of the children, but what is available and what was distributed was enough to make anybody nauseous. And I'm going to take you through just a couple of the journal entries that stuck out to me. On July 1st, she wrote, quote, R is to stay outside, sleep outside, only come in to go to the bathroom and shower. On July 9th, the day before R's birthday, she wrote quote, R turns 12 tomorrow. I never envisioned him being 12 and still pooping and peeing

himself. Satanic choices lead one to becoming destitute even in the most affluential homes. Which, no Ruby, usually if a child is pooping and peeing himself, it is caused by, I don't know, maybe something you're doing like starvation, like abuse, like all of these other things. So then the next day she writes about R not knowing that it's his birthday. And then she calls him a compulsive liar.

And she says, quote, I would never have expected the cold, dead heart that R has. Then she talks about how E is better behaved with Jodie, and says that she gave her a pixie haircut and adds in, quote, all her long hair is gone, no more distracting with hair. On that same day, she admits in her journal that she told R to stand in the sun with his sun hat and that he said no, so she pushed him into the sun. When he came out of the sun, she pushed him back in with a cactus poker. She said quote, when I poke his back to get in the sun, R doesn't even flinch.

I poke him in the neck. He is in a trance and doesn't appear to feel anything. Jodie taps him on the cheeks to wake him up. She talks about how her and Jodie both pushed him into the pool and then alluded to him having the devil inside of him and she performed some sort of weird ass ritual on him. She put her hand over his mouth and his nose

and told him quote, the devil lies and says, I am hurting you, abusing you, but R, what am I really doing? R responded and said, "'You are putting oxygen on me to help me breathe.'" She mentioned multiple times how he would steal food and also water. Ruby also said that R mentioned

that he wanted to go to jail and that he worshiped the devil. I thought it was interesting that she followed it up with, "'R doesn't actually know what jail means. He has no comprehension of what throwing your life away means." Which, I mean, isn't that exactly what Ruby did? It's a little ironic, right?

So she would talk to R as if he had a demon inside of him, saying things like quote, "'Give your demon friend a message for me. I will not rest. I will not stop. I will not leave. I will fight him until the day you die." She would also tease him about how she slept in a very soft bed while he slept on the hard

ground. Mother of the year, right guys? Now at one point, E thought that she was going to get to eat. But then Ruby told her that she would not eat for a third day because she had quote, hardened her heart. Ruby wrote that E flipped out and laid on the floor all day saying things like, my mom starves me and calls it fasting and my mom won't lift two fingers and bring me food because all she does is lay on the bed and eat brownies. And because she did that,

Ruby said that she cut more hair off of E and then quote doused her in the dogwash. When E said that she wanted to run away, Jodie told her that she had no idea what was waiting for her if she did. Then she talks about how her and Jodie or G-Jo as she calls her throughout the journal, were planning on moving to the desert

where the kids could quote, work. She said that before moving, she would let E come and sit in the pantry and she would have R sit on the patio in the shade. Then right when they would think that they got what they wanted and they would start to relax she would write quote pop we will drop them like hot potatoes out in the desert. She also wrote about the day that she completely shaved E's head. E had been walking up and down the stairs with boxes, and at one point she slipped.

Ruby thought that she had fake slipped, so she put her in the dogwash. She shaved her head, and then she made her go back to carrying the boxes. When E complained that it was hot outside, Ruby told her that hell would be much hotter, so either get used to it or start changing. She also wrote about how one night when she experienced a quote miracle. She wrote quote, last night God gave me a miracle that I

absolutely will never forget. I went to bed around 12 10 a.m. E on the floor next to my bed and R on the patio outside of my sliding glass window. Oh man, just writing this, I am shaking. If Pam hadn't volunteered to take A to American Fork for her ACT test, then I would not have been here. In my life, Jodie's and my family's would be forever different. She goes on to say how she woke up in the middle of the night and noticed that R had run away.

She says she woke Jodie up and they went out to go find him, jumping in their cars and quote racing the sun, racing the devil to find him. And finally they did find him. This illustrates that he had tried to run away multiple times before finally being successful, which I just have to say that requires an insane amount of bravery. Then in her journal she says, quote, the sun started lighting the road just an hour and a half later. The devil wants me in prison.

My children dead. Now guys, if this is not a dead ringer for Lori Vallow, I don't know what is. And truthfully, I've said it before, but I'm gonna say it again. It is my belief that had R not escaped, had E not been rescued, there is no doubt in my mind that these children would not have survived. There really is no doubt in my mind, and I don't think that they would maybe have ever

even been found because of the vast amount of desert out there. I don't know, but it sends a chill down my spine when I think about it. Thank God, thank God he escaped. Now after he escaped that one night, Ruby began tying ropes to him at night so that he couldn't leave. Another form of punishment that they used was taking the kids to the local cemetery to pull weeds and pick up trash. Ruby wrote that they would make them go barefoot to increase the discomfort and to also decrease the chance of them running away. She admitted that it was full of huge sagebrush, pokies, thorns, and even broken glass, and at one point the owner of the cemetery came and told Ruby that she was trespassing and had to get off of her

land. So then Ruby took the kids and she and Jodie explained that the woman was in distortion. Because of course, as soon as somebody's not agreeing with what you want to do, they're obviously in distortion, right? Now at one point R was crying because his feet were so swollen from standing. Ruby told him, quote, when your soul is dying, no one cares about your feet. A couple of days later when R, quote, wasn't manipulating and told Ruby that he wanted to change, Ruby told him, him no that's not true you didn't manipulate because you weren't uncomfortable now reading this journal was absolutely insane because Ruby was

just such a freaking hypocrite as she yelled at her kids for manipulating her but then manipulated them anything R and E did was never good enough. And Jodie and Ruby would just continue to convince the kids that they sold their souls to the devil. Ruby even wrote about putting on a pair of boots and going into the room that he was locked in at one point and kicking him saying, you want me to help you? No. You want me to feed you? No. You want me to shower and provide for you? No." She wrote about how he would respond to the different discipline measures of cold water, cactus poking, and whipping him with towels. And then after that, she moved to whipping E and R both with a belt. There was also

another detail that Ruby talked about throughout a lot of her journal entries that literally sends chills down my spine even thinking of it. Ruby talks about her and Jodi's plan to buy land in Arizona. In one entry she says, Jodi and Jay are going on a trip to look at property in Arizona. I have some cash in the bank, so if the property is right, we can move on financing immediately. We decided that the escalation of the kids is not manageable here and now. R is now sitting, angry and defiant. Can you imagine saying this about your children, about any children? It is so awful. Now, in one of Ruby's jail calls with Kevin,

she said that she had cash for the kids schooling, not so that she could go buy land in Arizona that she could use to torture the children on. Towards the end of the journal entries, right before her arrest, she mentioned that A and Jodie were in Tucson looking at a property with 500 acres. Then she wrote that Jay, who had been staying back in their Springville home, seemingly

by herself, went to go visit Jodie for a week. When Ruby took her back to Springville, she said that her, Jay, A, and Pam packed up 20 boxes from the house and put them into a storage unit, And that A then gave two weeks notice at her work. Now guys, this was just a couple days before R fled and before the arrest happened. So I couldn't help but think about how if R hadn't escaped that day, they likely would have moved to Arizona,

maybe even on 500 acres. And like I said earlier, there is no doubt in my mind that we would have had another Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell situation on our hands. The journal entries were essentially just one sick confession after another. Then I started thinking about Kevin freaking out about the journals that Sherry took, because remember he freaked out and wanted to charge her with burglary when she took all of that stuff from the house?

What was in those journals? Was it more confessions? Did they show a timeline of things beginning to escalate over time? Was he worried that if the police read them, then he would be implicated and be in trouble as well? I mean, and again, in that moment, your first instinct as a parent should be your children's well-being. So you shouldn't be trying to charge your daughter with burglary for trying to help her siblings. You should be the one trying to help your own children, my man. Like, give me a break." Which kind of just

cements my other point because in one of Kevin's very first interviews when he was first told that his kids had been rescued and that they had wounds that were aligned with torture, before even asking how the children were, he asked about Ruby. He was more concerned with his wife after hearing literally point blankblank that his one son had run away, that he was asking for help, that he was malnourished, that he was emaciated, all of these things, and his concern was Ruby. Which it really makes you ask the question, how much did Kevin really know was going on? Because that definitely doesn't seem in line with the statement of a parent who is in shock and hearing those allegations for

the first time. So Jody and Ruby were sentenced to their four counts of aggravated child abuse in February of 2024. Per Utah law, when consecutive sentences are issued, their imprisonment terms cannot be more than 30 years. The Utah Board of Pardons and Parole will ultimately determine the exact amount of prison time, and then, after that, each of them will have 30 days to appeal the decision. Now what I want to do is I want to play for you guys just a couple of clips of what they said when they were in court,

because it's the lack of accountability for me. So here is what Ruby said in her statement to the court. I would like to make a statement without any intent to change my stipulated sentence. For the past four years, I've chosen to follow counsel and guidance that has led me into a dark delusion. My distorted version of reality went largely unchecked as I would isolate from anyone who challenged me. I was led to believe that this world was an evil place, filled with cops who control hospitals that injure, government agencies that brainwash, church leaders who lie and lust, husbands who refuse to protect, and children who need abused. My choice to believe and behave this

paranoia culminated into criminal activity for which I stand before you today ready to take accountability. Jody Hill-DeBrandt was never my business partner nor was I ever employed by her. I have never received wages from her or connections. Jody was employed as my son's counselor in 2019 and in 2020 I paid her. It is important to me to demonstrate my remorse and regret without blame. I take full accountability for my choices and it is my preference that I serve a present sentence. Thank you to the to me was the moment I gained my freedom. You were not the controlling ones, I was. Thank you to the medical staff at Inumat and Hospital.

Your skill, tenderness, and professionalism helped to heal my children. Jodi and I inflicted the injuries, not the hospital. Thank you to DCFS, the Children's Justice Center, Judge Basel and other key adults. You've gathered my children under your wing and offered them love, compassion, encouragement. You were not the ones who were doing the brainwashing. Thank you to my Bishop Tom Hawks and my State President Jim Nelson

for reminding me of the Lord's love for the lost. So much pain and suffering would have been avoided had I followed and heeded your counsel. I was the one who was deceived, not you. Thank you to the Washington County Prosecutors Office, Ryan Schaum, the legal assistance and discovery clerks. Eric Clark, you exemplify to me how justice and mercy are meant to coexist. My charges are just, they offer safety to my family, accountability to the public, and they did show mercy to me. Thank you to my attorney Lamar Winward and his staff. I would not be where I am today without them. Thank you to Randy Kester for your limitless energy in healing my family. My

dear friends, Pam and Roy, I'm so sorry for letting you down. Because of your association with me, your innocence was called into question. My mother-in-law, father-in-law, Kevin's family, my cousins, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, and neighbors, you all saw the warning signs long before I did, and you did what you could. You wanted to help, but I pushed you away. My mother and father, I have been utterly wretched to you. You have offered me unconditional love and for that I have offered you unconditional contempt. My siblings and their spouses because of my decision to roll around in a pigsty I've dragged your families through the mud in public. Yet when I desire to return as the prodigal sister unlike the prodigal's brother in the

Bible you seem stuck with my parents and ran out to greet me. Your capacity to love is unprecedented. Kevin, my husband was born in 23 years. You are the love of my life. I'm so sorry to leave you to finish what we both started together. The ending of our marriage is a tragedy. And I have a ratcheting in my heart that I know I'll never be able to undo. to my babies, my six little chicks. You were part of me, I was in a deep undercurrent that led us to danger. I remember.

My shift to darkness knowingly. I was so disoriented. That I believed dark was light and light was wrong. I would do anything in this world for you. My will was to sacrifice all for you was masterfully manipulated into something very ugly. I took from you all that was soft, and safe, and good. I took from you your mother. And I don't know if all this must have been for you. You know, do you know what it must have been for you?

And I'm still crying. You're hurting my tender souls. You are. You're so precious to me. I'm sorry. My choice to live in fear of the world has created a great vulnerability and a blind spot for me. Where I have broken hearts and I've caused people to suffer and I have betrayed sacred trust. Watching my community respond to my charges with justice and mercy and grace and love I am humbled and willing to serve a prison sentence as long as it takes. I am humbled and willing to serve a prison sentence as long as it takes. I am humbled and willing to serve a prison sentence as long as it takes.

I am humbled and willing to serve a prison sentence as long as it takes. I am humbled and willing to serve a prison sentence as long as it takes. I am humbled and willing to serve a prison sentence as long as it takes. I am humbled and willing to serve a prison sentence as long as it takes. I'm sorry for twisting God's word and distorting his doctors. I am humbled and willing to serve a prison sentence as long as it takes to continue unraveling all of the misinformation I have believed and bought, swallowed and acted out. I'm committed to continuing my learning until all of my toxic layers are shed and I am ready to reenter as a contributing member

of our beautiful society. Thank you, Judge Walton. Now for Jodi, prosecutors told the judge that she did not participate in the pre-sentencing report interview and that she had been on recorded phone calls while in jail saying that she was the victim, that the children were perpetrators, things like that,

which yes, you heard me correctly. She was also heard saying that all of the legal proceedings in this case were misrepresented by the media and that they are complete lies. Now her statement to the court, it was much shorter. And in answer to your question, Your Honor, I knew that whatever she might say to the author of the pre-sentence report would probably be sound hollow and self-serving and perhaps it does today. But I know that my client in the statement she makes to the court today, that that statement is absolutely sincere. After their hearings, a reporter from the Today show spoke out with one of the prosecutors.

And he said, I think that a four-year minimum for Ruby's actions are entirely appropriate. I hope that Jodie serves more time than that, and I hope that she isn't out of prison until everybody is completely confident that she is no longer a risk. And to get there, she's going to have to acknowledge that she has done wrong, and that you can't use religion as a means to justify your crazy behavior. Which, hello, I mean, I think we all know that you can't use religion to justify abusing a child, or starving a child, or tying a child up, right? But what's so interesting to me is that

Jodie is blatantly saying that the children were the perpetrators. And then what's so interesting to me too is that when Ruby is up there making a statement, she's talking about how she was a victim of Jodie's as well and how she was saved when the handcuffs were put on her, which no, no, no, my friend, let's not get it twisted, your children, your children were the ones who were saved when the handcuffs were slapped on your grimy ass little wrists. Now, Ruby's parents wrote a letter to the parole board and I wanna read it to you and see what you make of this

because I'm pretty shocked to be quite honest. Dear Judge and parole board, We are Ruby Frankie's parents. We are currently serving a full-time mission in Serbia. Before Ruby became involved with Jodi Hildebrandt, she was a wonderful mother, daughter, sister, and member of the church. All she ever wanted from the time that she was a little girl was a family to love and nurture. When she began having troubles with her teenage son Chad, she sought out a family therapist and counselor to help them. We noticed a shift in Ruby's thinking the summer of 2020, and by that fall she had cut all ties to us, her siblings, and her close friends. For three years, what brief communications we had with her, she

accused us of either things that never happened or she grossly exaggerated the events that did. She was delusional. She was so deeply brainwashed that we could not recognize her. We received a postcard from Ruby two months after the terrible news of the children. We read her tender apology and humble acceptance of accountability. She expressed her gratitude for being incarcerated and felt that the mighty wake-up call was a huge blessing. Since then, we have seen a return to the Ruby we once knew. Her thoughts and views are her own now. Her love, her appreciation and commitment to her family is stronger than it has ever been. Ruby is more concerned about her eternal salvation than her imprisonment. Her testimony of the Savior

and His atoning power means everything to her. As her mother and father, we plead with you to show her as much mercy as you possibly can. Hopefully in time, she will have a relationship with her children and they will remember the mother that she once was to them, and they will find it in their hearts to forgive her. This would be the greatest healing balm for all of them. Sincerely, Chad and Jennifer Griffiths." Now to be fair, I'm sure that going from having zero criminal history to then sitting in jail for months and facing serious felony charges and on top of all of that being literally

eviscerated by the media and pretty much the entire country, it would create a huge wakeup call to most people, right? I mean, to say the least. So is it possible that Ruby was being sincere in her statement? Has she really reformed that quickly? Personally, I'm not buying it at all, and it's my opinion that Ruby knew exactly what she needed to do. And not only that, but I believe that this is evidenced in some of the jail calls that she had. In particular, one with her sister. Take a listen. Um, did you, did you see Jodie put guilty today?

I did see that, yes. Is that a relief for you? Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's a big relief. It's a big relief. There would have been positive the other way too had she not pled guilty. There's enough evidence that she would have been...could have been convicted for life, but that would have been messy.

It would have been really messy and the kids would have... So... So, do you and her get the same outcome no matter what now or is there a chance that it would be different? That's a really good question. That's one that I've asked Lamar. No, we can still have different outcomes. So Ellie asked a little bit about this. I wrote it out in a text to her.

So the next thing that will happen is I will fill out, and she will fill out a probation and there's another P paperwork and basically you go through your history and you tell them your history, which there's no history on me. There's nothing. No criminal history, no mental health history, nothing. And I'm also hiring a professional to do a mental health evaluation just to say she's good, like there's no mental health problems at all. And then that will go to my probationary board. Jodi, she can lie on her paperwork,

and she probably will. I don't think she's going to give them her history. But I think in the interview, it's going to be apparent that she's mentally ill. it's going to be apparent that she's mentally ill. And so that will affect how long someone, you know, because they're looking, how repentant are you? How much responsibility are you taking? How are you aware that what you've done is wrong? And she's not...

She's... The only reason she pledged is because she didn't want to do life. She knew I would testify. The other thing is on my plea deal, when I come up for probation, the prosecuting attorney will often, if they think that you're a danger to society, will talk to the probationary board and will write them a letter saying, I think she needs to stay where she is. He's going to stay neutral and not write any letter when my probation comes up which is a really big deal but for her he's he's not going to

stay neutral so we can come up to probation and I can get off on probation and she may not. Yeah. When was the last thing you talked to her? Was it that day? It was when we were arrested. Yeah. I went, I left early in the morning to go to a dentist appointment with Julie, we left at like 3 in the morning and she calls me sometime in the morning. So I went back down, but when I got to the house, I mean, it looked like the movies. There was a red fire truck.

There was a black van with tinted windows. There were two ambulances. There were 20 cop cars. I mean, it was... Did you just sit in your car? No. I pulled up and found a spot to park. She lives on the cul-de-sac.

I parked in the cul-de-sac and I walked up and the driveway was just full of cops and I just walked up to the cops and they said, are you the mother? And I nodded my head and so they took me and put me in the casita and I sat there for a couple hours. I just sat there. And then they were finishing looking through the house and stuff, I think. Some of the guys were coming in and out with pizza and so I think Eve was still there because the ambulance car was there.

I was eating pizza with the police and then once the kids were taken in the ambulance cars, then the detective came and patted me down and arrested me and then took me to the courthouse for questioning. I'm glad I didn't say anything because Lamar was really helpful. If you ever get arrested, don't say anything. I just didn't say anything. So I didn't see Jodi at all when I went to the house to turn myself in. I didn't see her. Okay. And I went, they took me to the courthouse and the detective was like, I've got all night. We can talk all night. And I didn't say anything. I just said I want an attorney.

So I We can talk all night and I didn't say anything. I just said I want an attorney. So I could hear Kevin in the hallway talking and then he left. And when they took me out of the room, they took me outside and cuffed me and said, again, they cuffed me again. And then they told me you're undered me again and then they told me you're under arrest for, and then they told me two of the charges and then they had me get in the patrol car and that's when I saw Jodi. I thought Jodi was also in the patrol car. And she had surgery on her shoulder.

She couldn't put her hands behind her back, so then they pulled her out and changed up the way they arrested her so she could drive with her hands in front of her. And then we had about a 40-minute, 45-minute drive to the jail. And that was the last time I spoke to her. We were in the back and we didn't say a whole lot. I mean, we talked all the time, but I don't remember really saying a whole lot. We sang a hum, like hummed a couple hymns, and she was still justifying the whole time. She's like, don't worry, don't worry, we'll have our day in court. And then when we were booked in,

they put us in separate cells and we've been in separate cells ever since. I'm sorry, this just sounds like someone gaming the system. She quite literally was saying, the judge and the parole board want to see that you're remorseful. That's the most important part. And even saying that she may have a much lighter sentence

than Jodi because Jodi is denying her actions. I don't know, I could be wrong, but it just seems extremely, extremely calculated. So now moving on to Jodi's jail calls because boy oh boy, listen to this. So what I'm saying is you're being crucified in public opinion. So your fear has to be super prepared and the only way he's going to get prepared is if you push him and ride him. Okay, I will. I'll call him today.

He doesn't seem really animated. He seems like, you know, the pictures are going to destroy you and I'm like, we didn't do that. We didn't do that. We didn't do that. Those pictures we did not do. He did that to himself, yes. Did we put that on him and then he rubbed around and cut himself? Yes.

But we didn't do that. You're not married yet. Nobody wants the truth. Nobody wants the truth. Nobody wants the truth because he's a kid. You know, I told Doug, I woke up, the spirit told me, it's all the devil. You've seen him. I mean, I've known you, you know, I told Doug, I woke up, the spirit told me, it's all the devil. You've seen him. I mean, I've known you what

for five years you've watched him come at me, come at me, come at me, come at me. And you're exactly right because he knows I know what he's doing. And he uses these kids and he uses all of us as the adults, the parents that don't hold the kids accountable. So now it's abusive to make a kid sleep on the floor. It's abusive or it's abusive. You know, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous.

You can't even raise your kids anymore. Okay, so the Lord says that first they'll lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my namesake, and it shall turn to you for a testimony. And then he says, settle it therefore in your hearts not to meditate before what ye shall answer for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay or resist." And gainsay means? Wow.

So then he says, and ye shall be betrayed by both parents and brethren and kinsfolk and friends. Oh my gosh, I think that's what's going on. parents and brethren and kinsfolk and friends. Oh my gosh, exactly what's going on. And some of you shall be caused to be put to death. And you shall be hated by all men for my namesake. And then he goes on to say, you know, and I never read that before, but like I've never been in prison. But I just read that. I just wept. I mean the spirit was like, he just said, this is you. Yeah.

I read in Mark, that was in Luke, and I read in Mark the same kind of thing, you know, because the gospel, they wrote similarly. So he said, Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son, like the father will betray the son, and the children shall rise up against their parents and shall cause them to be put to death. That statement right there is what's going on with me. The children shall rise up and put their parents to death and he shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. I just, I mean, I probably cried for an hour straight, just everything clicked and I said,

happy to go to prison. If you continue to read the rest of the chapter, she's like, be grateful. If you're in this situation, be grateful because you're grateful and you will be saved. Wow, yeah, that's quite an experience to read that from perspective right now. I have just been begging him like, you've got to explain this to me. I cannot logically figure out what's going on here. And that's it. That's what's going on.

When I feel the spirit, I mean I just with... when I feel the spirit I have two physiological reactions. I get really shaky like I'm shivering like I'm cold or I still heat like I have a fever untrue me. I was like burning up. It felt like I was burning up and I how that works, how the scriptures can do that. You know? Yeah. Well I have. Well, I have, like I said, I have probably every single day just been trying to logic, trying to understand, trying to be humble, trying to say, uh, uh, uh, uh. Yeah, talking to the story. What's happening?

Yeah. Oh yeah. You're living a puzzle trying to put the pieces together. In Peter, 1 Peter, I don't have this one written down, I kind of wrote the stuff down so I took it down to the phone, but in 1 Peter chapter 4, verses 12 and 19, I can't remember exactly how he says it it but he's like, when you have something happen to you and it just feels like it's random, it's not random. Like this is intentional. It's like, it's not just some crazy

act of events that's going on. This is like intentional. And that 1st Peter chapter 4 was another one of the footnotes to refer to you know that reinforced all this other stuff. I'm like oh this is just some crazy random event, that's purpose. And then I connected it to my blessing. It's my blessing I've been reading like several times a day. The blessing is pretty clear. My first paragraph says, you know, these are words directly to you from your Heavenly Father and according to your faith and diligence, you'll be a comfort to you or they won't be.

So, however much diligence and faith you want to put in them. And then the next paragraph talks about, it says, you are a special spirit chosen and reserved for these last days and sent forth to the earth in great clouds of glory to share the gospel and prepare the people for the return of the Savior. And then it says, one of the reasons you were sent here is to share the gospel. The strongest message you will ever teach is the power of your example. And then he says, through the power of your example and the spoken word, or no, he says,

your tongue will be loosed and you will be able to teach the gospel in foreign distant nations. And then he says, through the power of your example and the spoken word, you will be a great tool in the hand of the Lord in teaching the gospel to many. So the whole paragraph about an example, an example, an example, I'm like, what's a better example than to go to prison unjustly and then go to the gospel, the teacher gospel, and plan on doing it? Yeah, I mean that's super cool that a lady that's Jewish that you've met. Yeah. You know, what a unique thing.

Yeah. To be able to share with her. I was almost done. You know, I had a guy from a ward that I was saying, I was at the ward, he came over and he gave me a blessing and he told me probably about two months ago, he said, you're, and he didn't, he didn't know anything about me. He doesn't know about what I do for living or anything. And he goes, you were, what you've been doing is going to change.

You're going to be teaching differently in the next little while. Wow. What in the world? I mean, Ryan, I know this sounds crazy and I still can't put my finger on why it feels this way, but it feels like I was being set up to end up here. I know this sounds bizarro. I mean, I shouldn't be here. I haven't done anything wrong. Right, right. But my goodness. But it was like everything got taken out of the house and it's in the storage

unit so that I could come to jail. It sounds crazy, but it. But it feels that way. I don't know if it'd be like some kind of example, but when I get out of here, I have a story to tell and I am going to try to do everything I can to protect the children because that's what's happening. I think kids are being horribly abused. Yeah, absolutely. Instead of the kids, anyway, it's a story that when you come up with that.

Yeah, okay, so in the... So there's a sense he's talking about the sector coming and I'm coming from this place of I was just getting ready to move and all of a sudden I ended up in prison. You know, like what in the world? Now I have been praying for five months like explain this to me like what is going on like I'm willing to go there but please let me go right side up. Like you want me to be there because you want me to be there, then great, great. I will not resist it at all, but please help me understand. So I read this

this morning and I just wept and wept and just thanked him and thanked him because it just, oh, quick, quick, quick, quick. So he says, for all these things, no nation rising its nation, they shall lift their hands on you. And I'm like, oh my goodness, prosecute you. Now, first of all, I don't know who she is on the phone with, but the fact that they were on the other end of that phone call and didn't stop Jody once blows my mind. She sounds like a complete crazed maniac and she's still blaming the children. It is sick, sick, sick, sick, sick. And then all of the times where she is essentially saying

that she had signs of this coming and acting like she's still in control of the situation, I mean, it just shows how truly delusional she was. She must truly believe all of that psychobabble bullshit that comes out of her mouth. I mean, she is insane and completely unhinged. We still don't know the amount of time that Robi and Jodi will spend in prison, but we certainly know why they pled guilty, just based on the sheer amount of horrific evidence

against them. However, I do wonder if they thought that by pleading guilty that nobody would know the extent and the details of what the children went through. Either way, I'm glad that the DA released all of the evidence because even though it's still so shocking to believe, people need to know what these monsters did. And guys, some of the pictures that were taken of the children's injuries when they were at the hospital are so, so graphic that everybody's been blurring them out, even mainstream media, even 2020 everybody, because they are truly horrific. So I'm gonna describe them, but I'm not gonna show them

because I don't think they need to be out there personally. There's a few channels out there who have posted it over the weekend. You can go look if you want, but please massive trigger warning, they are so bad. But you can see where the restraints were on the ankles. And you can see the skin on the legs are completely chapped. It's raw.

You can start to see muscle below it. It is like it has literally disintegrated the skin. You can see the shoulder blades sticking out of R completely as though he is so malnourished and underweight. It looks like literal wings coming out of his back. That's how much they are protruding. And then there is a wrist wound where, to me, it almost looks like a burn, even though I know it's not maybe partially a rope burn, but it's like a slit, a thick, not even a slit, a slit's the wrong word, guys, a gash on his wrist.

And it's so deep that you can see muscle, you can see tissue, you can see fat. And it is like, gosh, I wanna say it's like an inch wide, something like, it is so horrific when I saw it for the first time I'm not exaggerating guys I did start gagging it is so awful and this is what this boy had all over his body when he was brave enough to run away from Jodie's house he is honestly a freaking hero in my eyes now I'm really hoping for the maximum sentence here

because especially now that all of this information came out, all of these details, you can't trust these people going back on the street in my opinion. If they are so warped in their mind that they truly think that what they were doing was right, just like Lori Vallow did, just like Chad Daybell did, you can't let them ever around children again. You can't let them around anybody

in the population ever again. So hopefully there will be some sort of amount of pressure now that the DA has released all of this material to where they will get the fullest sentence and they will be held accountable. But either way guys, I will definitely keep you updated on this case. I hope that this episode was informative and helpful

to kind of really take you through the entire case, start to finish so that you got an understanding of who these people are, who they once were, who they are now, and I will definitely keep you updated. So if you aren't following the podcast yet, make sure you click the little button in the top corner of whatever app you're listening to this on and follow so that as soon as there are updates, you will see them come across your screen. And in the meantime, guys, let's just pray that these children all recover, that they are safe for the rest of their lives, and that justice really is served.

Alright guys, thanks for tuning into another episode, and until the next one, be nice, don't kill people. Alright, bye. Thanks for watching!