SERIALously - 136: Extremely Suspicious: Two Moms VANISH While Heading to B-Day Party & Were Stacy Peterson’s Remains FINALLY Found?

Episode Date: April 4, 2024

Police are looking for two missing Kansas women, 27-year-old Veronica Butler, and 39-year-old Jillian Kelley. Veronica and Jillian were traveling from Kansas to Oklahoma to pick up Veronica’s children and take them to a birthday party, but they never made it there. Instead, the car they were in was found in an extremely isolated area of the Oklahoma Panhandle near the southern Kansas border.  Astepro: Go to https://www.Asteproallergy.com for a special discount today. BEAM: Get up to 40% off for a limited time when you go to https://www.shopbeam.com/ANNIEELISE and use code ANNIEELISE Karen Read Episode 4/1: https://pod.fo/e/22c58f  Aiden Fucci Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCY3SEDjbHKSTwJZQ-RBgf8dfIOqv390i Shop the Merch: www.shop10tolife.com   Follow the podcast on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@serialouslypodcast  Follow the podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/serialouslypod/       Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/annieelise    All Social Media Links: https://www.flowcode.com/page/annieelise_    SERIALously FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/SERIALouslyAnnieElise/    About Me: https://annieelise.com/    For Business Inquiries: [e-mail] 

Shout out to Astapro for sponsoring this episode and providing us with free samples. Now guys, my allergies are throwing my whole morning off lately. I mean, tis the season, right? I mean, do I sound different to you? Because I definitely sound different to me. I feel like I'm underwater. Astapro is a first of its kind nasal allergy spray. It is the fastest 24 hour over the counter allergy spray, and it starts working in 30 minutes, while other allergy sprays take hours. Astapro is the first and only 24-hour steroid-free allergy spray. Astapro delivers full prescription strength indoor and outdoor allergy relief from nasal congestion, runny and itchy nose, and sneezing. Now, I use this, and if you struggle with allergies

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Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. I hope you guys are having a good week. We have got a lot to talk about today. We not only are going to talk about updates and some ongoing cases, but we're going to talk about brand new cases. And like I said, there's actually a lot to talk about now that I really think about it. I want to start with the Monday episode that we dropped this week. It's on the Karen Reed case. Now, guys, if you have not listened to this episode yet and if you're not familiar with this case,

then do yourself a favor, go back and listen, because it is one of the most controversial cases out there right now. There are so many people who think that there is conspiracy, corruption, coverups. While some people believe she truly is guilty. I mean, the poll that I put up over on Spotify, it's pretty split. But anyway, long story short, Karen is basically accused of murdering her Boston police officer boyfriend. Yet, she's saying, no, no, no, no, no, I dropped him off at a house party that night and drove away and he was killed inside and now these officers, the fellow officers at the house party, are trying to frame me.

And I gotta just be honest there is some compelling evidence suggesting that this might be a cover-up. So listen to the episode if you haven't already and make your own decision and then come back and let me know what you're thinking. But in addition to that we're also celebrating one year of the podcast. So happy anniversary. And in that episode, we did a giveaway. Again, listen to the episode to get all of the gist and the details on that. But we were doing a giveaway. There's a code word in there where we're giving away some good things.

We also have a lot of other things we're giving away over on Patreon. So I'll link all of those things in the show notes for you. The link to Patreon. We're doing giveaways every single day over there this week to celebrate and then we of course did the one in the Karen Reed case. So let's talk a little bit about Chad Daybell for a minute. I mentioned last week that jury selection was starting this week and that it's expected to be 8-10 weeks worth of trial.

Originally I thought it was going to probably be at least a minimum of two weeks for jury selection. However, earlier this week Court TV, they had said that they think that opening statements are going to start as early as next week. I don't know if that's really how it's going to pan out. I guess we'll see. But for those of you who don't know who Chad Daybell is, he's currently on trial. He's like this gross, disgusting cult leader man who is accused of killing I mean a slew of people his new wife's children his wife possibly maybe even the brother of his wife I mean it goes on and on and on so it's a pretty wild case so it's gonna be interesting to see how this trial pans out I think he's guilty but I also have been saying I really think

he's gonna throw Lori under the bus I think that's what we're gonna see since she's already been found guilty, but TBD. In a fun little twist on that, during jury selection one juror was asked if they had seen any coverage about the case and they straight-up said that they had watched an episode of mine on 10 to life, so thank you for watching the coverage. I hope you appreciated it. But now let's move into a very disturbing story coming out of central California. Now I hope you guys haven't eaten lately because you're probably going to vomit when you hear this story. It is beyond grotesque and disgusting, but let's jump in. So according to an arrest report on March 22nd, Kern County Sheriff's

Office deputies were called to the Amtrak station in Wasco. They were called there about a person who had been hit by a train. Now as one of the responding deputies was arriving, Amtrak employees pointed to a man named Rosendo Tellez, and he was walking down the street with an object underneath his sweater. So the deputy approaches this guy because he's not sure whether Rosendo was the injured victim in the collision or what was really going on. But as the deputy got closer, he pulled this object out from underneath his sweater and then dropped it on the floor. Now guys, this object turned out to be a left leg that was severed at the knee.

He was arrested right then and there, but authorities of course still needed to figure out like what the hell is going on here? Whose leg do you have? Why are you just like holding it under your sweater like it's a handbag? I don't know. But another deputy who responded to the scene spoke with a construction worker nearby who had three videos of Rosendo with this leg. The worker said that he hit the leg against a piece of construction equipment which appeared to have blood on it. In one video, Rosendo was, quote, "'bent over at the waist while holding the leg near his face.' Then after standing up, he, quote,

"'brought the leg up to his face and then briefly touches the leg against his mouth, licking it.'" If you aren't vomiting yet, guys, I don't know what's going on with you, but that is like the most disgusting thing I think I have ever heard. Like he's just cradling the sleigh, walking around, bringing it up to his face, like rubbing it against his cheek, then starts licking it. I mean foul. Now in another video, get this, and I'm sorry to make light of this guys, but it is just so beyond disgusting and like outrageous. So in this other video, he was quote,

cradling the foot and laughing at the person recording him. The arrest report also says that Rosendo said that the leg was his quote, even though he had both feet. So he picked up the limb and allegedly wanted to take it to the hospital, but he quote, got scared and then ran when people in the area started yelling at him, which my man of course they're going to yell at you you're like this guy holding a leg stroking it kissing it it's weird and then in yet another video reportedly he was seen quote waving the leg with his right hand and lifting it in the air as to present it.

Obviously there's got to be something at play here with mental health because I just, this is not making any sense. But officers later figured out that the leg belonged to the person who was hit by the train when then a different deputy went to the tracks and noticed a trail of various body parts. Those body parts were all on the tracks until he found the bulk of the body. a very, very unfortunate event where this pedestrian was struck by the train and then unfortunately was, you know, not, I don't want to say decapitated probably, but dismembered in different ways from the impact and then Rosendo was cruising along and picked up a leg and, I don't know, had like a little love affair with it or something. So investigators also talked to the train conductor who said that he saw somebody slowly walking with their bike near the train tracks and it looked as if they were talking to somebody else behind him. The conductor said that he sounded the train horn many, many times to try

to get the victim's attention in all of this, but somehow he never looked or even acknowledged that the train was coming. So a very unfortunate tragedy that then just had a very odd outcome altogether and kind of gives you pause and makes you go What the fuck's happening in the world? So now moving into another disturbing case about a 13 year old killer So on March 29th shortly after 12 30 p.m. Officers responded to a home in Pennsylvania and they found an unresponsive 44 year old woman She was later identified as Tamika Tucker. Now Tamika, she had visible stab wounds covering her neck, her back, and her head was severely

bleeding. She was later pronounced dead at the scene due to all of these horrific injuries, and when the police were there, they also found an 11-year-old at the home. This 11-year-old also had stab wounds on his back. However, the injuries were not life-threatening. So you might be wondering who would possibly do this? Well, the police identified a suspect in this, Tamika's 13 year old daughter. Now apparently when she spoke with the police, she allegedly apologized for killing her mother and she admitted that she stabbed her during an argument,

all because her mom took her phone away. According to the arrest warrant, the 13-year-old girl said, quote, I killed my mom and she'll never forgive me if she's alive. I don't have my phone because my mom took it before our fight. I'm the reason my mom is dead. I don't know how people can do stuff like this and not feel bad about it, quote. Which, yes, a little bit of true statement there. I don't know how people can commit murder and not feel bad about it, so I'm glad she has a little bit of remorse. But

also, I don't know people who would murder their mother because they took away their cell phone. Like what kind of rage and issues are there in order for you to jump like to such severe and crazy actions. So this 13 year old was arrested and charged as an adult for her mom's murder and she had additional several charges in addition to the murder charge as well. And you know we really talk about cases like this all the time and I always kind of have the same question for you guys. In situations like this and other murder cases we've talked about, should we charge 13 year olds as adults? Or is their brain not fully developed? Should they have the opportunity at rehabilitation, at reform? And I want to know what you guys think, so I will put up a poll maybe over on Spotify or just let me know in the Q&A section.

But at what point do we decide should they be charged as an adult or not? And to me, to me honestly in this case, I don't really know what the answer is. Like a case like Aiden Fucci, it's clear as day in my opinion why he should be charged as an adult. He, it was premeditated. He planned this. He talked about it to friends. He showed no remorse all the way until he was in the back of that cop car sending Snapchats laughing about it.

Like you are a psychopath in my opinion. all the way until he was in the back of that cop car sending snapchats laughing about it like You are a psychopath in my opinion. I don't know if I would medically diagnose him as that but you know what I mean however a situation like this where I Don't know not to make an excuse but if her brain is not fully formed and she doesn't have control over impulses and things like that if she really was just Enraged that her mom took away her cell phone and like acted in the heat of the moment again not to excuse it or say it's okay but like is there possibility of reform for somebody like that because they aren't fully developed I don't know what the answer is and that's why I am not in the legal field because I just don't know the answer and if you're not familiar with

that Aiden Fucci case guys it it is a horrific, horrific tragedy where he killed his 13 year old classmate Tristan Bailey in like a gruesome way. The details are so twisted and disgusting, but I'll link that full episode here in the show notes for you so that you can be familiar with that case if you want. Now moving on to a case I talked on my TikTok account about last week. It's a case about this girl named Amanda Nenegar. So on March 22nd, a very, very mysterious and puzzling 911 call was released by the police investigating the disappearance of Amanda. She was a missing 27-year-old girl from Blythe, California.

So she was last seen on February 28th at 3.44 a.m. on surveillance video, but her car was later found in a desert area 12 to 15 miles away from where that surveillance frame was taken, and it was that same place where she called 911 to report that she thought that she fell asleep at the wheel. Now take a listen to this 911 call because it is really really weird. 911 to Mercy, what are you reporting? Um, I think you guys got a slip up of Will. OK, where at? Coming from Anza. I was tired, so I went to go pull over,

but I think I like ran off the road. So you had an accident? Yeah. OK. Are you on Highway 78? Possibly. Possibly. But I climbed to like a high mountain and I'm wearing pink.

So police think that her car must have been stuck in a ditch. But what's also weird is that the ditch was nowhere near where her car was actually found. Also, Amanda kept saying that she was near a highway, except her actual location was a remote desert with mountainous terrain without any paved roads or anything of that nature. So it's coming out that even though Amanda gave the police her location, California authorities had been searching in the wrong area, 30 miles away. And then when they found Amanda's car, she wasn't in it. So the search for Amanda was on, but unfortunately her body was found this week, nearly a month after she went missing. but unfortunately her body was found this week, nearly a month after she went missing.

She was found naked and under a tree about one and a half miles away from her abandoned car. Now because her clothing was found not too far from her body, investigators believe that she may have been trying to cool off and it's possible that she died from exposure. The Sheriff's Office said that the investigation is ongoing and pending an autopsy and that'll determine what her cause of death truly was. But right now they want the public to avoid spreading rumors and making assumptions based on what really happened. But I have to say, I mean, what a massive drop of the ball here. You found the car. She wasn't inside the car. You knew that she made this distra- this distressful 911 call and that she was missing. And you search, you search all around, first of all actually you search in the wrong area, 30 miles away,

but you find her car and her body's only a mile and a half away and you didn't find it? And again, the desert is the desert is the desert. There's not a lot of crazy terrain sure, there's dirt, there's rocks, there's boulders, there's peaks, valleys, whatever, but like not that difficult to do a search. There's also not a lot of snowfall, nothing like that. Like I just don't understand how she was missed and that's really really devastating for her family, especially because she made that call. She knew she was in trouble and had there been maybe a different approach to the search effort,

maybe she would have been found and maybe she would still be alive. So please keep her family in your thoughts and prayers. I have a question for you. Do you ever have trouble sleeping or do you like wake up in the middle of the night randomly but then you can't fall back asleep because your mind is racing, it's going a million miles a minute and you just kind of have this like gross morning the next day where you're groggy and you're tired and you didn't get good sleep? That used to happen to me all the time. But about a year ago my husband

introduced me to Beam Dream Tea and guys it has changed my life. I drink it about 30 minutes before I want to fall asleep and be asleep and it's like this nice little dessert treat right before bed. And even though it tastes like dessert it's only 15 calories and zero grams of sugar. They have so many amazing flavors too. They have chocolate peanut butter, cinnamon cocoa, sea salt caramel, which is my personal fave because it tastes like hot chocolate.

But it's so good because it puts you to sleep. You don't wake up groggy. You feel refreshed. It's also stopped all of my middle of the night wake ups where I'm having a hard time going back to sleep. Better sleep has never, ever tasted better. And today my listeners get a special discount on Beams dream powder. They're science backed healthy hot cocoa for sleep with no added sugar. And guys the numbers

don't lie. In a clinical study 93% of participants reported dream helped them sleep better and like my husband got me hooked on it I have gotten my brother hooked on it, my sister, my sister-in-law, my mom, so many of you listeners. It is so, so good. So if you want to try Beam's best-selling dream powder, get up to 40% off for a limited time when you go to shopbeam.com slash Annie E Lise and use code Annie E Lise at checkout. That's shop B E A M dot com slash Annie E Lise and use code code Annie E lease for up to 40% off. Now there's another case coming across my desk guys that so many of you are baffled by and have been requesting coverage on and opinions on.

And it's these Kansas women who are missing. So police are looking for two missing Kansas women, a 27 year old named Veronica Butler and a 39 year old named Jillian Kelly. Veronica and Jillian were traveling from Kansas to Oklahoma to pick up Veronica's children and take them to a birthday party. But the thing is, they never made it there. Instead, the car that they were in was found in a very extremely isolated area of the Oklahoma panhandle near the southern Kansas border. Now when Veronica's fiance and Kelly's husband heard that the women never made it to that birthday party, Kelly's husband, who also appears to be a pastor, drove with another pastor to see if they could

find the women at all and retrace where they might have been heading. So as they were searching and trying to get answers, they ended up pulling up to a scene and they saw one of the women's cars and it was surrounded by police and it had been completely abandoned. So imagine like how frightening that would be if you're out searching for these women and then you find the car, it's abandoned and police are just like swarming it and circling it. So now the Oklahoma Bureau of Investigation is investigating their disappearances and have described this situation as a quote suspicious disappearance. Additionally, they've now classified their disappearances and have described this situation as a quote suspicious disappearance. Additionally, they've now classified their disappearances under endangered missing advisories. So that alert deemed both women quote at risk.

However, there's really not much that has been shared publicly other than the details I just described. Not a lot of information in this case, but a whole lot of attention being paid to it by the media and it's now caught national media attention. What stands out to you about what little we are hearing from police at this point? Well, I think we're hearing little, but in a sense, Marni, we're sort of hearing a lot when you hear the words suspicious when you see that schools are being shut dow are taken. I think they'r

that there might be someb these women harm. Also Ma for law enforcement is th those photos there. I gre always teased that the the telephone pole. There is nothing there and that's going to really limit the capabilities of digital analysis of their cell phones. You know, in missing cases, we tend to go immediately to family

and friends and in the days following a disappearance, they want to talk, right? They want to say, this is my person, here's what they look like share as much information as possible in the hopes of bringing them home in this case we're hitting a brick wall where police are now telling family and friends don't talk to the media why might that be. I think that might be because they don't want widespread speculation and accusations being launched as they're investigation. Marni, it'

though that this area woul area for some sort of ran words, if these ladies wer it is likely going to be know and are familiar with. So Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation appears to be the leading agency on this, but we are dealing with a state line near where the car was found. So you've got multiple agencies involved. How does that coordination work in an investigation like this, Jennifer?

Well, wherever that vehicle has been found, that's going to be where venue is established as opposed to where they lived. So they're looking for where that crime, if there is a crime here, was committed and judging from where the vehicle was found, that is why venue has been established with Oklahoma at this point. What would what would you be looking into right now with evidence? I mean, the car has to be the most critical clue at this point. What would you be looking into right now with evidence? I mean, the car has to be the most critical clue at this point. The car is critical. You're looking there for any DNA that would not be of these women or of the people associated with that car.

Obviously, I still would be looking at any digital analysis. I also wanna to see text m were making this trip bet that possibly could have the relationship in terms Whenever I hear custody b go missing in this way, t uh, action point I would

expect that police will change their strategy and offer an update to the media depending on how much more time passes? I mean, we're now several days into this search. I do expect that, Marnie. I think it's very important for transparency in this situation because the people that live in this area are likely very

concerned. Is there somebody out there capable of causing harm to these two women? Are they capable of causing harm to others? So I think it's very important that law enforcement does give updates. According to the alert, Veronica is 5 feet 4 inches tall with red hair and green eyes and she wore a blue short-sleeved shirt, denim shorts, and shoes by the brand Hey Dude when she disappeared. She also has several tattoos, including a Chinese symbol on her left forearm and a sunflower on her left shoulder. Now Jillian, she has brown hair and blue eyes, and she was seen wearing a long-sleeved shirt, white-washed blue jeans, and tan or beige

colored shoes when she went missing. So anybody with any sort of information about the women's whereabouts are urged to contact the Oklahoma Bureau of Investigation. Whether it's a tip, a lead, a sighting, any information, please send it their way. Now let's talk about Drew Peterson for a second. Not to be confused with Scott Peterson, but in my opinion, equally a loser douchebag dirtbag. Both Petersons are accused of murdering their wives, but let me give you the rundown of Drew Peterson because while I think so many

people are familiar with a lot of these cases, I end up always being a little bit surprised that some people aren't familiar. So let me give you the breakdown of Drew Peterson and then if you want a full deep dive definitely let me know either on Spotify Q&A section or in the Apple review section because it is a really like twisty tourney case. There's a lot of speculation. It's kind of a roller coaster. But basically Drew Peterson was found guilty of murdering his third wife Kathleen. This was a few months before their 2003 divorce. Now he had been cheating on Kathleen and the circumstances around her murder were like beyond shady, but he had been cheating on her with this girl Stacey.

That's when they were gonna divorce and he ended up going on to marry Stacey. So a little bit of a backstory on Stacey and how she got involved with Drew. Like I said, he was cheating on Kathleen with her, but she was also really young. She was only 23 years old when she disappeared, and she had a pretty rough child life, and so she found Drew, who was this older man, much older than her. I think he was like 49 at the time, and she was only 19 years old, and so she was really taken to the fact that he was established, he was mature, she kind of had that, you know, almost that figure of like taking care of her, and she was just

swept away in all of this. So they started having the affair, Kathleen and he divorce, and then she marries Drew. And guys, Drew also was a police officer which probably also contributed to his sliminess in terms of thinking he could get away with things and cover things up. Not to say that all police officers are slimy, obviously, but the ones who end up like using that to their advantage if they're going to murder somebody or commit crimes themselves, you get what I'm saying. But let me talk to you about the details regarding Kathleen's death because what was so shady about it, and he didn't get charged with it for quite some time actually, everybody had

ruled it as accidental I believe it was until then Stacey went missing, which I'll get to. But anyway, Kathleen, her whole body was bruised and it was found in a dry bathtub in her home in 2004, but she had this really large gash to her scalp. Now as I said, the initial cause of death was found to be accidental drowning, but there were still some red flags about it. I mean, it was a dry bathtub, she had a gash in her head, she was bruised all over, it looked almost as though she had been placed in that bathtub. But then in 2019 when Stacey disappeared, the fourth wife, Drew Peterson, ended up being indicted for Kathleen's murder after

a second autopsy showed that there had been evidence of a struggle. However, with Stacey's disappearance, it wasn't ruled that she had been murdered, she had been missing. And a lot of the speculation kind of led in the direction of Drew killing Kathleen of course and then starting to like figure out how to be smarter and so then when he wanted to get rid of Stacey he hid her body I think some people even suggested that he put her body in a drum and like either dropped it in the ocean or maybe even buried it but it's kind of been this like cold case for several years now

where nobody's really had any answers. So during the course of Stacey and Drew's relationship, he would always accuse her of cheating on him. He was very controlling and she ultimately decided like look we have to kill kids together but I'm out you are dangerous. I'm paraphrasing here guys because again I can give you a deep dive if you want it. But then she disappeared. Well now Stacey's sister is speaking out and she believes that they have found her remains. Listen to this clip.

Cassandra, thank you for being with us. You have been relentless looking for your sister and what happened here. And this is a bombshell tonight. The fact that these remains have been found in the canal there where Alex was just standing. How did this all come about, Cassandra? Walk us through it.

Basically, I've never stopped. We've had numerous sonar searches, and back in 2007, November 19th in 2007, we found a female body, which was basically my sister. You could see the hair waving, the breasts and her legs. She was becoming buoyant, but not buoyant enough to come to the top of the surface because she was weighed down. She was at that location for three days. State police were notified and they didn't do anything.

They were sent everything. They had the coordinates and then me and my team, we were threatened to be arrested if we acted on anything. And after the third day, she was gone. And we just went on continuing searching. Then the spring of 2008, we expanded and continued. And we found her down the canal resting on the the bottom you can see decomp And it's you can see decomp and the flesh Going you can actually see a fish Above her body she still had flesh, but she lost her eyes and her feet were gone

Was kind of turning skeletal In for informed state, please again Informed state please. Again, nothing. I think I fought them for like a year and then they just went out and did a blind dive one day and didn't even like re-sonar it. Then, which is I, the technology keeps getting better and better and I looked for the best of the best and that's when I found the one and only sonar ROV and had it brought in from Alaska

and that's what we got. And that was just out of sheer luck. That is incredible. Yeah, sorry to interrupt you. I mean, I'm just looking at the images, Cassandra, and the fact that you had defined this sonar RV from Alaska to come down, and that you were able to locate these remains,

it is unbelievable. And I don't understand, I'm just trying to understand, like, what are the police doing? If you were able to locate the skull and other bones, and you know where they are, I would think there'd be a dive team in the water tonight going to collect the remains. What is going on?

So basically we had the ROV sitting on top, just in that position, sitting on the bottom, and I had called state police, I had called the state's attorney. They came out, they seen it. I even set up a tent because it was cold out. And we showed them everything and then we just stood there and they just said, well, you expect us to come out tonight or tonight now? And I just get pushed back. Then I had to call them every day. Then I called the FBI and finally I got

the FBI to come in three months later after I was on that and they just kind of did a blind dive and floated around. I have that on video. They were all just floating on the top of the water hole the whole time. And then when I was there, they didn't even talk to me and they treat me like a criminal. And then at the end they told me that that area is cleared. So that area is cleared. Now I'm just trying to get some funds and get that equipment back. And they said it's cleared.

So there's no crime scene. I'll walk in the state police with her skull in my hand. It's somebody's. It's not, I don't know, it's my sister, but it's definitely somebody's loved one that needs to become her homes. So So they say the area is cleared, but you've got the sonar RV there with the images, I mean both of those things can't be true and and and I mean

It didn't it covers with it was a rock Yeah, they said that was a rock and I actually have video footage of that when we went to move the ROB. That we actually bumped the skull and you could see the underside of the skull. Like the, you know, the bottom of your skull. It fell off. But it gets re-soaked over very quick. Now this case is very very sad because I mean Stacey's family for over what a decade I believe it is now have been adamant that they believe that he murdered Stacey but there's just no proof. Yes he's been charged with his former wife's murder but he hasn't been charged with anything

related to Stacey. So it's going to be very interesting to see if these remains do prove to be Stacy's or if maybe it reignites some interest in the case and we do get some answers or maybe there's new tips, new leads, new searches, but hopefully her family is able to get a resolution to this because it is very, very tragic. And again, let me know if you want a full deep dive on that. So once again, another week where there is no shortage in news in the true crime world. We'll see if opening statements start in the Daybell trial

next week, but my guess is maybe it'll be pushed out a little bit. And Karen Reed's trial is supposed to start on the 16th and I'm wondering if that's still gonna happen. Other than that, like I said, we did a massive giveaway in that Karen Reed episode and we are going to be announcing the five winners to that giveaway on this upcoming Monday episode. So definitely tune into that to see if you are a winner. And we also are doing a live Q&A this Friday over on Patreon.

So if you feel like you want more access, you want access to giveaways, more perks, more bonus content, our private group chat, all the things, you can do that over through Patreon. And if you do it now, you'll be a part of the live Q&A and you can ask me questions directly and we'll talk and we'll hang. And if you feel like you still need another True Crime Fix for your week, we still have

our Friday bonus ad free episodes. You can get access to those through Apple Podcasts or also through Patreon. So all of the links to all the stuff will be in the show notes. Alright guys, thank you again for tuning into another episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. Thank you so much for joining and until the next one, be nice and don't kill people. And I will talk with you again very, very soon and be back with you on the mic Monday with a brand new deep dive case. All right. Take care guys. Bye. you