SERIALously - 157: Wild TikToker Murder Trial, DISTURBING Madeline Soto Update & Diddy’s “Apology”

Episode Date: May 23, 2024

Headline Highlights: Today’s episode dives into everything happening this week in true crime. From new cases to updates on existing ones and more. New haunting details and interview audio from Stephan Sterns, who is accused of murdering his girlfriend’s 13-year-old daughter, Madeline Soto, Diddy gives a public apology, and INSANE double murder case. Mica Miller Latest Episode: https://pod.fo/e/23dabd TikTok Murder | Ali Abulaban Kills Wife In A Jealous Rage? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqDRLDEoHHk Fum: Head to https://www.tryfum.com and use code SERIAL to get a free gift with your order today. Beam: Head to https://www.shopbeam.com/ANNIEELISE and use code ANNIEELISE for an additional 40% off. Don’t forget supplies are limited and you can only shop it through my link Sources: Court TV CBS San Diego CNN Audio Credits: CourtTV CBS San Diego Follow the podcast on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@serialouslypodcast        Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/annieelise All Social Media Links: https://www.flowcode.com/page/annieelise_      SERIALously FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/SERIALouslyAnnieElise/    Shop the Merch: https://annieelise.com/ About Me: https://annieelise.com/      For Business Inquiries: [e-mail]

Hey, True Crime Besties, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise, Headline Highlights Edition. We're going over everything that is going on in the true crime world today, and you will be so happy to know, let me just give you this announcement, I heard your feedback last week, you definitely want me to go back to the individual trial recaps for Chad Daybell and for Karen Reid and not lump that all into Headline highlights. So this week we are rolling out with that. It will be live first thing Friday morning Well midnight technically so depending on where you're located, but we are gonna be bringing those back So I know that you guys found it easier to digest that information when it's separated.

So you'll have today's episode, headline highlights, and then you also will have that little bonus drop with the trial recap, which God guys, I mean, oh my, literally my hand right now is, or my face is like in my hands. Holy shit, the trial this week for both. I mean, in my hands. Holy shit. The trial this week for both. I mean, Jennifer on the stand for the Karen Reed trial has been crazy. Chad's kids testifying and what Lindsey, who you'll hear from in that episode, is saying she definitely thinks they're like perjuring themselves. Their testimony, it's wild. There's a lot. My head is spinning. So I wish you guys could see my face right now. Actually, I don't because I'm making a really like crazy ugly surprised face, but like it really is crazy and it's been blowing my mind all week. And we're not even done with the week yet. But anyways, we're going to go through all of the headlines, some case updates now, and break down what's going on in the true crime metaverse.

If that's what it's called. I don't know. My husband watches Marvel, so that's what I'm saying. So let's start with Madeline Soto. You guys know this case. I already talked about it, but disturbing new details in the Madeline Soto case have recently come out, and we just gotta talk about it. Now, as a recap, I know you're already familiar, but Stefan Stearns, who is Madeline's mother's boyfriend, has been charged with murdering 13-year-old Madeline. This was after she was reported as missing when she didn't come home from school after Stefan had dropped her off. But in reality, she was already dead in the morning and she never made it to school at all. He was also charged with 60 counts of child sex abuse. This was after the investigators found horrifically disturbing images

that were showing Madeline being sexually abused over approximately two years. So, needless to say, he's a piece of shit. He's a creep. He's a pedophile. But these new details are even more sickening, if you can believe it, and they really are puzzling as to what the truth is. What is really going on here? What did her mom know? What didn't she know? So back in an interview with the police while Madeline was quote missing, Stefan had said that before taking Madeline to school he offered to take her to McDonald's but she apparently said she wasn't hungry. So he then said that she was tired, got tired on the drive, so quote she was asleep in the car most of the time just

snoozing until we got there. Take a listen. I know that you're already supposed to be other detective, right? About everything that kind of happened today. If you can just kind of go over with us one more time. The timeline from like when you guys woke up and took her to school and all that. So we woke up early. The plan was that we were going to get McDonald's breakfast on the way. So we made amazingly good time. Okay plan was that we were going to get McDonald's breakfast on the way, so we made an amazingly good time. I don't mean to interrupt you, OK? Neither of us were here yesterday, so you can be kind of specific about times and stuff

like that, OK? Woke up around 7, 7 15, somewhere around there, which is an early start for us. But shoot, we had talked about getting McDonald's breakfast beforehand, so we wanted to make good time. We did make good time. We got out the door maybe 730, 745-ish maybe. Got over to that area. She was asleep in the car most of the time, just snoozing until we got there. We got to McDonald's, we're close to McDonald's. I said, you still want it? Wasn't interested in McDonald's anymore,

so we continued on. And she wanted to be dropped off a little down the ways from the school. She's got this phase that she's been into lately where she's very particular about what car she's seen getting out of in front of the school. She prefers her mom's car, but my cars are, I guess, kind of empty. Now we know from previous reports that the police believed that this was all a lie because remember there was surveillance video of what they believed showed Madeline dead in the car. But now, specifically, police are saying, quote, upon reviewing the security video,

Stefan's vehicle exited the complex with a female wearing a green sweater in the front passenger seat. The female was slumped over to her left, which is an abnormal way for a person to be seated in a vehicle. So did something happen before they even left the complex that day?

Which also makes her mom's statement that she saw Madeline that morning pretty concerning, if so. But what's even more concerning is what she said in the interviews with the detectives. Because Madeline's mother, Jennifer Soto, told the investigators that she had been dating Stefan on and off for approximately seven years. She also said that he had moved out of their home in late 2023. During the interview, Jennifer said that they were all together, they would either all sleep in the same bed, or that Madeleine would sleep with her when Stefan was not there.

Then when asked if it was normal for Stefan and Madeleine to sleep together without her being there, she said, yes. Now at this point, the detectives had already found the images and the videos of Stefan assaulting Madeleeline on his phone, but Jennifer did not know that. So one detective showed one of those photos to Jennifer during this interview, and this detective said that Jennifer, quote, did not want to believe that Madeline and Stefan were engaged in any sexual activity. And this detective also said that she apparently didn't recognize anything in the picture, as if she was just in complete denial. However, they say she did become visibly upset, which literally, what the hell.

And we're gonna come back to that and break that down a little bit more here, but it gets worse. So after this encounter, where I'm assuming Jennifer acted like she didn't recognize Stefan's penis for whatever reason or whatever is going on there, the investigators left Jennifer to go speak with Stefan. He was asleep in the interview room when they went in there, but they woke his R.E.S. up and said that they needed to talk to him. When they did, he told the investigators that Madeline was the one that wanted the family to all share a bed, and that quote, she always needed human contact when going to sleep.

And he basically went on to describe it as snuggling, which I have to say, huge red flag. Madeline is a 13 year old girl. There is no reason that she should be sleeping in a bed with her mother and her boyfriend, no less sleeping with the boyfriend in bed when Madeline's mother is not there. Hard no. I don't care who it is. I co-sleep with my kids. First of all, they're my kids. They're also toddlers. But like there is no way in hell given today and the what we know about perpetrators, what we know about predators, there is no way that any parent should ever allow their child to sleep with a partner unsupervised alone in bed, especially when it is a creepo older man with a

young girl at 13 years old. Like how is this even allowed? It is it is blowing my mind and it just honestly infuriates me. Now if her mom did think that it was normal for them to sleep together and that Madeline did always just need human touch, human contact as Creepo Stefan put it, surely when she saw those photos from the detectives and when they started asking her these questions, she would have put it all together, right? I mean, I understand being in denial, but you would have put it together. So the fact that she was not saying anything and still you would have put it together. So the fact that she was not saying anything and still wasn't seeming like she was like crazy. I mean she was visibly upset but like she didn't seem

all that angry. It also felt like she had kind of been covering for him when Madeline first went missing. It really just makes me wonder how complicit she was in this and I'm not trying to shame her in any way. There's a very good chance that she had no idea what had been going on all of those years. We often see that abuse does happen in the house and people are not aware of it until after the fact. But to me, my personal opinion, and again this is just my opinion so do your own research, take it with a grain of salt, but like there's too much evidence and uncomfy details here to not know what's happening. Then especially to say she saw Madeline that morning, but now detectives are thinking

that she was actually killed prior to that morning maybe, or early hours of that morning. It's just not adding up to me. So like I said, Stefan had been charged with all of these sex crimes well before he was actually charged with Madeline's murder. And everybody who had been following this case was kind of waiting on a bated breath being like why isn't anybody

being charged with the murder? The writing is on the wall. Clearly he's the one responsible. So now that he has finally been charged, even though it took a while, I am curious and wondering are we going to see charges follow for the mother? Maybe that's gonna take a while too. Maybe they'll never come. Let me know what you think. But while we're talking about creepy scumbags, let's go ahead and talk about Diddy because this new video of his has taken the internet by storm. And when I saw it, the ick factor and the cringe level was like through the roof astronomical. But let's break it down. So if you haven't heard, let me give you the skinny on what I'm talking about.

Recently, the hotel security footage of Diddy assaulting Cassie was released, and this footage, guys, was absolutely horrific. If you've seen it, you know what I'm talking about. If you have not seen it yet, CNN posted it, but I warn you, please, please, please watch with caution. It can be extremely triggering for anybody, but especially somebody who has ever dealt with domestic violence or anything like that on that scale. It can be very traumatizing, so please watch it with caution. But in this video, you can see him chasing after her down the hotel hallway while she's trying to escape and go to the elevator. He yanks

her back by her hair, throws her on the ground, starts kicking her, hitting her, then he's throwing glass vases at her. It's horrible. It is so horrible to watch. And the rumor is, although I don't know if it has been confirmed, but the rumor is that he had actually paid off the hotel at the time to basically bury this footage so that it would never see the light of day. Now remember, back when Cassie first sued him for numerous things such as rape, assault, all of it, Diddy had initially denied that this even happened. But now he's not denying that it happened. And in fact, he is apologizing.

And I say that very loosely. If you were here in my studio, you'd see me using my air quotes. But let me just tell you, this apology video did not land for me. And I want to know what you guys think, so take a listen and I wish you could see the visuals, but you can on his Instagram, but at least you can hear it. It's so difficult to reflect on the darkest times in your life. Sometimes you got to do that. I was fucked up. I mean, I hit rock bottom.

But I make no excuses. My behavior on that video is inexcusable. I take full responsibility for my actions in that video. I'm disgusted. I was disgusted then when I did it, I'm disgusted now. I went and I sought out professional help. I had to go into therapy, I had to go into rehab,

I had to ask God for his mercy and grace. I'm so sorry. But I'm committed to be a better man each and every day. I'm not asking for forgiveness. I'm truly sorry." Now first of all, let me paint the picture for you if you haven't seen the video. I don't know where he's plugging in from. It looks like he's like in Bali or Cabo or something like that. So I'm like, okay, this guy's plugging in from some like bougie place to give this phony apology

because he realized he's now caught and gonna get like massively canceled probably. But here's where it gets me. He doesn't even address Cassie. He never says her name. He never apologizes to her. He just talks about how he went and sought treatment, how he's trying to be a better man,

how he is praying to God all of the time, but he never actually says he's sorry for his actions against Cassie. And my question is, how sorry can you really be if you're paying people into silence, you're buying their silence, we know he now has settled that lawsuit with Cassie, which great that's fine, she agreed to those terms, but how are you actually genuinely sorry if you're hiding videos, you're telling people nothing's true, you're saying

these are all rumors, you also have all these human trafficking allegations against you, and you're paying for people's silence. Are you truly sorry? Because in my opinion, there's no accountability when you put all of that together. That's just my opinion, but in any event, I thought it was absolutely disgusting. Now, speaking of disgusting men,

and I promise this isn't an episode that is just trying to target all these gross creepy men But it's just the way that it's panning out unfortunately this week But if you heard my earlier episode this week on Monday We did like a full deep dive into the Micah Miller case, which has just been Horrific as we've uncovered all of these different things, but there's even been more updates since just Monday So I'm gonna go through all of those updates with you and we're gonna talk about that.

And you can also listen to the deep dive after this episode if you haven't heard it yet. But before we get into all of those updates, we are gonna take just a very, very quick break to hear from the sponsors of today's episodes. And thank you for understanding that sponsors help keep this podcast free and they also are hooking you guys up with some great deals.

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and use code Annie Elise for an additional 40% off. But remember, the supplies is very, very limited, so grab it now before it is gone forever. Okay, so like I said, if you listened to my update to the Micah Miller case that was published earlier this week, there are even more developments now. On Twitter, reporter Robbie Harvey said the following, We now have to question the County Sheriff's Office Department handling the Micah Miller case. Kyler Marlow on Facebook asked for drone footage taken the day of Micah's death, and below is their response. Quote, the drone was used for live view, and the images are not saved.

End quote. So then he says, let's review, and he bullet points the facts. They turn Micah's body over to John Paul after she told family, quote, if I end up with a bullet in my head, it was John Paul.'" They turn the body over to a man who is under FBI investigation. There was no autopsy, no toxicology, no gunpowder residue test. They have no answer for when the family asks, "'Why were there two shell casings?'

And now, either evidence that wasn't saved or evidence that was deleted, am I missing anything? And in this tweet, he also includes a screenshot of his request for the drone footage. So more people are speaking out about what's really going on here. And I hate doing this, I hate, hate, hate saying this because I think it's so like cringe and tacky,

but I have to be for what I'm gonna lead into next. I do have a source who is very close with this family. Truly, truly close. They have been talking and it is somebody legally involved. Not legally like a lawyer or law enforcement, but that's all I can really say. But anyway, and I hate saying that without like sharing who the source is. I just think it's so ick, but I have to say it to this lead-up. So this person told me that they have been in contact with the family regularly because they're helping them with something, which I can't say what. And apparently when Micah's body was recovered, JP said to the family, he basically forced them to sign something acknowledging or agreeing to the

cremation of her body, and apparently he said to them, I'll let you see Micah's body as long as you sign this and sign this within one hour. Basically, cornering them to say, if you wanna see your daughter and if you wanna see her body one final time, you have to sign this agreeing that I'm cremating her. And like I said, in my deep dive episode, it's JP who is responsible for no autopsy, no tox report,

because we were saying the tox report would be very important because she had insinuated that he was feeding her drugs and so my first question when this whole case broke is I was like if she truly was mentally unwell or if she was hallucinating or if she was being force-fed certain drugs like what will her tox report say? What was her state of mind in those moments? But he ordered no tox, he ordered no autopsy, and there was no gunshot residue powder test done either. The Vultures are all apparently swarming this case too and swarming this family right now

with people offering them $10,000 for rights to their story because they wanna make documentaries and things like that, which I get it. It's a very interesting, complex story and people want to share and want Micah to have justice But I don't know in my opinion. I just think it's too early It's too soon, especially to be just throwing like ten thousand dollars at this family But honestly what they have told the person I'm in contact with is that they didn't really know any better

They didn't agree to it, but like they haven't known what is right. What's wrong? They're from a small town They're trying to figure it all out as they go what is right, what's wrong, they're from a small town, they're trying to figure it all out as they go. It's just really heartbreaking every single way that you look at it because now there are some mass media people who apparently are really trying to take advantage of the story, who are trying to capitalize on this and it's really gross.

Other than that though, and I'm not gonna recap the deep dive episode, cause you can definitely go listen to that, but there were some really disturbing text messages from JP to Micah's best friend and to her family after she passed. In a message to the best friend he wrote, I thought you two should know Micah killed herself earlier today. She needed her lithium because she has been having a three-month psychotic episode. I'll keep you posted on funeral. That was literally it. That's how they notified her best friend that Micah was dead.

It's just so cold. And then in a message with the family on the family group chat, he had said, This is what happens when you try to encourage someone to divorce the person that they love. And when you tell them that they don't need medicine, and that they're not ill when they really are. Good job, Francis family. So then Sierra responds saying, Get the fuck out of here. You're the reason that our sister is dead.

And then somebody else chimes in saying, it's easy to shift the blame when that's all you know how to do. No one told her not to take her meds. Get that through your thick skull. You drove her crazy. Simple as that. And the surgery that you wanted? Set her off on this path. How dare you even contact us? Which I don't know what surgery they're referring to. If you guys know, let me know. But I'm not sure what surgery they're referring to at all. But all that is to say that JP is a scumbag. Will he be charged with involuntary manslaughter? Who knows? Probably not if I'm being honest. But we did see it in the Michelle Carter case, right? She's the one who coerced her boyfriend into killing himself where she was sending him all of the text messages Aging him on telling him the different ways he could do it and she did end up getting charged

I think she only served two or three years, but I mean at least she was held accountable So I wonder if there will be evidence that comes out that Indicates that he did drive her to do this. I think everybody suspects already that he did based on all of the stuff that has come to light, but will there be any information in the cell phones? Will there be any hardcore proof that he did have any sort of involvement

in facilitating this or egging her on? I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Now let's shift gears into a TikToker who's been accused of murder. So back in 2021, a TikToker who went by the name Gin Kid, whose real name is actually Ali Abulaban, shot and killed his wife and also a man that he suspected that she was cheating with. Prosecutors say that he was kicked out of he and his wife's apartment in San Diego at the time, but that he had secretly copied a key.

Then on October 21st, 2021, he apparently snuck in and then shot and killed his wife and the man that she was with as they were just sitting together on the couch. I did cover this case a long, long time ago over on my YouTube channel, but his trial is just now starting. So I'll link that episode in the show notes. so if you want to watch it, it has all the

visuals, you can see everything. But like I said, his trial recently began. So in the defense's opening statement, Ali's attorney argued that Ali was psychologically vulnerable when he heard Anna and Rayburn on an app that he had installed on his daughter's iPad. Because, yes, he installed one of those secret recording apps on her iPad so that he could hear what was going down in the apartment. He was just allegedly very controlling,

very possessive, all of those things. So after hearing this recording, he then went over to the apartment, and according to his defense attorney, quote, "'All judgment and reason flew out the window. "'Ali was in the passenger seat of his body, "'not in control, not in his right mind, but overcome with so much intense emotion,

simply out of his mind. Well now, shocking testimony from when Ali took the stand came out, and a lot of people are very conflicted about whether any of this is true or if it borders on victim blaming. He admitted to punching and pushing Ana on various occasions,

but he said that he never acted like that before they moved to San Diego from Virginia, which is kind of gonna be the theme here. He said that Anna was the one who insisted that they move to San Diego because she had friends there and she loved San Diego whenever she visited. He said he was interested in moving too, but that Anna's desire to move was so strong

that she became angry if anything interfered with those plans. He said that his brother had a mental health episode and so he wanted to stay in Virginia a little longer before moving to San Diego because he wanted to be there to support his family. Apparently, he said that Anna insulted him for this, saying, you know, throwing insults for him needing his parents' permission to move and that she told him to be a man, take me to San Diego or I'm divorcing you.

And just a reminder, this is all according to Ali. So he says that because of all of this, he caved into Anna, and they moved to San Diego, and when they did, they started doing drugs, they started partying, and this was all because of Anna's friends. He says that they were the ones that really fueled this lifestyle, which left him susceptible to mental health struggles and also had played a role in his mindset when the shooting happened. He also said that he had trouble fitting in with Anna's friends and that since his father was physically and verbally abusive during his childhood, because of that he struggled with social anxiety and security with other men. It just made it really difficult for him to fit in.

So then when his marriage to Anna started getting rocky, this made it even worse for him. But again, this is all according to Ali. Now before the murders, Ali said that his marriage had, quote, developed into a continuous series of arguments and accusations of infidelity. This on both sides. He said that all of this was exacerbated by cocaine, which he says was pretty much a full-blown addiction for him at that point. And he also said that cocaine made him very violent.

He said that one time, Anna said that she slept with one of his friends. So because of that, Ali punched her three times in the face. But he also said that Anna was the one that punched him in the face three times before he was even awake. So what's really true there? But take a listen. A lot of what was presented in court today is tough to hear the prosecution Presented several audio and text messages a boulevard sent his wife many of them are so graphic We can't share them in their entirety I am the best man you ever met you're the dumbest

Devoted my life to you are the dumbest I wish we never had a kid together because of how stupid you are." Audio messages Ali Abulaban sent his wife Anna in the days leading up to her death were full of name-calling, cuss words and references to other women. She sees the value in me unlike your dumb a**. And I can't wait to divorce you so I can start my new life. At one point Abulaban laughed as they were played. Later on, he appeared uncomfortable telling his attorney to turn it off. Ricardo Escalante, a former homicide detective with San Diego police, was in charge of analyzing cell phone data as it relates to this case. He testified the examples displayed in court were just a small portion of the disparaging data he found. There were dozens and dozens of audio messages, texting with this general vibe of where are

you, who are you with, what are you doing, vile, disparaging names constantly. In addition to audio messages, Escalante spoke about a boulevard's internet search history which included disturbing images. He's looking up chopped bodies, decapitated head cartel graphic. Escalante also read text messages and emails exchanged between Abulaban and Ana. Some were sent following incidents of domestic violence. You were the only one there for me and I hurt you. I could never forgive myself. In September, one month before the killings, Anna sent Abulaban a message telling him she was done with their marriage. I need to move on and get back on my feet. You've dragged me down enough. Prosecutors say on the morning of the shooting, Abulaban returned to the apartment he and Anna once shared and vandalized the unit.

He's also accused of installing an app on their five-year-old daughter's iPad that allowed him to monitor live audio. While listening to the app later that day, Abulaban overheard his wife and Rayburn Baron, a man he suspected she had been seeing, talking and laughing. That's when police say he drove to the complex and opened fire on the victims as they sat on a couch.

A neighbor's Nest camera captured audio of the shooting. Abulaban's defense doesn't deny he committed the killings but argue he wasn't thinking rationally due to the collapse of his marriage and the effect it had on his mental health. A lot more was presented in court today, including a picture of Boulaban took of the victims after they were shot as well as audio of the attack. Because you knew that you put the iPad with the Discord channel on in the bedroom, as you're coming up and getting ready

to go into the apartment, what are you expecting to find when you open that door? Well, I put it in the bedroom because I was trying to catch them having sex. So when I heard their voices loud and clear, my mind thinks they're in the bed doing whatever. So I thought that by entering my apartment, I would have that little leeway from the front door to walk to the bedroom. I thought I'd have that cooling off point to be like, OK, I don't know what I'm about to see, just calm down. I thought from the front door I'd be able to just kind of bring myself together a little bit. I'm like, prepped to hear moaning and just very disturbing things.

And so when you walk in, you're expecting that you're going to have time to walk from the front door through the kitchen, small dining area, to the bedroom door before you actually see what you are hearing and expecting you're going to find in there. Correct. When you got off the elevator, what happened next? As you can see, I was in a hurry to get in there. I didn't even wait for the door to open. I was running, running, running.

I used my key card. The only thing I had in my hand was my key card. I opened the door. I barged in. I was immediately startled. I stopped right in my tracks like a deer in the headlights. They weren't in the bedroom. They weren't having sex. They're right there cuddling on the couch. We saw and you described for us running off the elevator to the apartment. You had your key card in your hand. You opened the door and described it as barging in. So you came in and you saw them on the couch. When you saw them, did they recognize or see you?

Well at first I only I saw Anna. I couldn't see who the man was because she was kind of leaning forward a little bit to see who's at the front door. So I see Anna and then then the man leans his head forward. He leans his head forward he leans his head forward his eyebrows arched I immediately identify him as Rey and he goes like Like what's up? I didn't expect that Anna would ever do that to me I didn't expect that Anna would ever do that to me.

Him, of all people. She knew how I felt about him. She knew how I felt. I was trying to believe her. I was trying to believe that she wasn't cheating on me. That she would let me fix this because I was sick. I was struggling from drugs and mental illness. And I fucked up. I fucked up a lot, but I was trying to fix this. And when I saw that it was him, I couldn't take it. I couldn't take the fucking betrayal.

I couldn't believe that she could do that to me, to our daughter. And before I could stop myself, I just fucking snapped. My gun was in my hand and next thing I'm shooting and I can't stop. I'm just shooting, I'm shooting. I'm even startled. It's like I'm watching it happen. I'm like I'm in the passenger seat of my own body. I can't stop it. I hear Anna screaming and crying.

And I don't even remember shooting Anna. I just remember running back to the front door and I grabbed the door handle and then it hit me. I'm like, did that just happen? And I turn around and I see, I see Hannah leaning forward and there's blood. And I'm like, Hannah, Hannah, Hannah, Hannah! I couldn't believe I did that! So I want to know what you guys think, or if you've heard of this case before. The trial is not scheduled to go on for very long, but if he is convicted, he faces life in prison. If you want me to do a fresh deep dive since the last one I did was years ago, I definitely can. Just let me know in the Q&A section on Spotify. But it is really interesting.

At this point, it really is his word against hers regarding the relationship, the turmoil there, what the behaviors were like, except for the evidence of the shooting itself, which again, I don't care if you guys are cheating on each other. I don't care if you guys are doing drugs together. It's never an excuse for why you would murder somebody. And he actually murdered two people, allegedly. So let me know what you guys think about this case. And as a reminder, the Chad Daybell and Karen Reed

trial recap will be on a separate episode this Friday, so definitely check back for that. If you're not following the podcast yet, I encourage you to do so. It's free, but it takes two seconds. Just hit the little follow button in the corner of your podcast app. That way you don't miss the new episodes as they drop.

And of course, if you feel like you even need more true crime content to binge going into the weekend, we also release our bonus ad-free cases where it is a full case deep dive. No ads, it's bonus, and you can get access to that either through Apple podcasts or over on Patreon. It's patreon.com slash Annie Elise. And those are every single Friday, exclusive over there. All right, guys, thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Serialist Lee with me and I hope you are being kind, staying safe, and until the next one, please be nice, don't kill people, I will be back on the mic with you very, very soon. And by the way, if you're going to CrimeCon, I will see you there next week in Nashville,

I am so, so excited, and we're doing a free meetup. I'm gonna post all about it over on my community tab on YouTube, Tend to Life, so go check that out. But I can't wait to meet all of you, whether it's at CrimeCon or at the meetup. So that's all I got for you today, but I will be talking with you again very soon. Alright guys, bye. you