SERIALously - 162: The TRUTH About ‘Dirty John’ With Special Guest Terra Newell

Episode Date: June 3, 2024

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Hey, True Crime Besties, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly. Hey, everybody. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialist Lee. With me, Annie Elise, we have got a very special episode for you today because not only will I be doing a full deep dive on this case and probably sharing some information that even if you think you're familiar with the case, I can pretty much guarantee you haven't heard before but I have a very special guest joining me as well. that even if you think you're familiar with the case, I can pretty much guarantee you haven't heard before, but I have a very special guest joining me as well. So the case I'm talking about today is we're going to be going into a full deep dive into the story of John Meehan,

aka Dirty John, and we're particularly going to be looking at his relationship with Tara Newell. Now, I know some of you guys might be thinking like, hey, hasn't this story already been covered to death? No pun intended, but we've heard it. We've seen the docu-series. We've seen the miniseries, all of these things. Why are we covering this crime instead of shining a light on something that maybe hasn't gotten this kind of attention in the past? But the reason why is because not only are there details that I feel like definitely have not been visited or portrayed correctly, but after

speaking with Tara, she said that there's a lot of things she wants to set straight, that this docuseries, even the podcast, they got a lot of the information wrong. And so who better to tell what actually happened, who Dirty John actually was, and the lengths that he went to and his crazy ass behavior than Tara herself. The person who not only experienced all of it firsthand, but ultimately brought Dirty John down. So I have Tara in studio today and she is going to be sharing so much information with us. I'm gonna be asking her questions and we are gonna just be able to hear from her directly. But before we get into that portion of the interview,

I am going to give a brief summary on the case just in case maybe you're not entirely familiar with the story of Dirty John, in case maybe you need a little bit of a refresher since it's been a couple years. Don't worry, I'm gonna keep it very high level, but I do wanna just give a little bit of background before we then get into the nitty gritty

with Tara herself. In the spring and summer of 2014, 23-year-old Tara Newell was living in Las Vegas. Now even though she was living in Las Vegas, she was still very close with her mom, who was a single mom, Deborah Newell, and also her sister Jacqueline. The two of them both lived in Southern California, in Orange County to be specific. And Orange County is just south of Los Angeles. It's kind of the land of beaches, fancy restaurants, even Disneyland. And it's a place that Tara herself used to call home as well.

So Tara, her mom, and Jacqueline all still weren't in contact regularly, and they always talked on the phone. They especially were talking a lot once Jacqueline started calling her sister Tara all the time to complain about their mom Deborah's new boyfriend, John. Now in all of this, Tara didn't really know whose side to take. I mean, Jaclyn, her sister, didn't really like John. But her mom Deborah seemed super, super into him, just head over heels. And ultimately, Tara just wanted her mom to be happy because Deborah had already

been married and divorced four separate times. She was hopeful that she would finally find her soulmate, her person. And John sounded like he was a good catch. He said that he was an anesthesiologist, that he volunteered with Doctors Without Borders. But then, based on the conversations that Tara and Jacqueline kept having, it sounded like her sister Jacqueline didn't believe a word that was coming out of John's mouth. I was skeptical, but I also knew that my sister didn't like a lot of my mom's significant others. I wanted to go in and have my own opinion of everything.

So a little bit of time had passed, but then Tara got her chance to meet John for herself in mid-November of that year. She was planning on coming into town to spend Thanksgiving with her family, but she decided to come a little bit earlier because she wanted to help her mom move into her new house in Newport Beach. Specifically, it was a new house in Balboa and it was expensive. It was $6,500 a month and Deborah was paying the rent all by herself. Tara didn't realize it at the time, but John was living with her mom there in that new house completely for free. Now as for Tara, she was still living in Las Vegas at the time, but she wasn't really loving Vegas as much as she thought that she would, and she didn't like being so far away from her mom and her sister. So this visit, aside from just

visiting family and spending the holiday together, was also a chance to sort of play with the idea of moving back to California full-time. So Tara goes to the house and she meets John, but he did not make a good first impression. He was a bit rude, a bit arrogant, and even a little bit irritable, but he did not make a good first impression. He was a bit rude, a bit arrogant, and even a little bit irritable, and he kind of acted like a know-it-all. He even gave Tara some medical advice when she mentioned that she had been having some health issues, and the only time that he really ever stopped talking was when Tara started asking him questions about his own life, and he didn't want to say anything about himself. But then, the weirdest

thing happened after the whole family went out to dinner and to see a movie, and everybody drove back to Deborah's house afterward. Then we go back to the place. And when we get back to the place, my mom gets out of the car, goes upstairs, and John's still in the car with us.

I try to open the door and the child locks around the door. Tell John, hey John, I think the child locks are on the door, can you let me out? He essentially doesn't hear me or I think he doesn't hear me. So I say it again a bit louder, hey John, can you let me out of the car? The child locks are on.

And he literally gets out of the car and he goes upstairs. This was really the first red flag that I was able to see with John. Instead, I gas lit myself and I told myself, oh, he didn't hear me. Now, the more that Tara thought about it, she just felt in her gut like something wasn't right about John,

especially after she met up with him again another time. Hung out, I think the next night we did a taco night with my friends. my friend tina also came over along with dianne and jimmy was there. we just had a good time in a sense and john was happy. he was drinking. he was i think taking pills. at least i saw him take a pills and then he had all these pills, these medicine bottles lined up. So I thought that was super interesting, but hey, who knows?

He's a bit older and people have medication and my mom had medication. So who knows? So as time goes on, just the vibe is not really great, but it's okay. Now, of course, as we know, her sister Jacqueline was also not a big fan of John at all. I mean, and that is putting it like mildly. So now both daughters were saying to their mom, like, hey, mom, this guy might not be good news. We have a really bad feeling about him. Look into him, check him out. You shouldn't trust him, especially until you're sure that he's actually legit. But like do your homework on this guy.

We feel kind of some grimy vibes. But Deborah brushed it off. She was head over heels for this guy. He was everything that she wanted in a partner, so she thought. So she decided to follow her heart instead. And she married John in December of 2014. And this was just two months after they met.

Once Jacqueline heard the news, she ended up crying all through Christmas. I mean, she was completely devastated. She was so upset and she was so worried about everything that was going on because something just didn't feel right to her. Plus, a lot of John's story also didn't make sense to her and it didn't make sense to Tara. He said he was a doctor, but he always had dirt underneath his nails. And the girls knew enough that they knew that doctors had to always keep their hands like very, very clean, because of course you needed to be sterile, you needed to be clean. And like that was just one example. There was just something off about him. You know when you get that feeling in your gut, like,

ugh, this doesn't quite feel 100% right? That's what they were feeling. And then they started picking up on all these little things and all these little indicators that were kind of just further proving to themselves that their intuition was right. Then at one point, Tara stumbled across a box that was inside the closet. And inside this box, it had John's nursing certificate. Now this really confused her because remember, John said that he was a doctor, not a nurse. And when she asked him about it, not in a confrontational way or anything like that, but just like, Hey, I don't really understand this. Can you explain this? He got very, very defensive and almost angry, like she had found out something serious, something damning, like that she had outed this big secret of his.

And this was actually kind of a common theme with John. Anytime it seemed like somebody was questioning him or threatening him, John would just get angry. But then at other times he'd be a little too sweet, a little too nice. And the behavior wavered enough that it started to feel like he was trying to manipulate not only the girls, but also Deborah. He just love bombed on her and if you don't know what love bombing means it means when someone is giving you so much attention in the beginning making you feel so great in the beginning doing things like maybe giving you little coffees he would get her a coffee every day. He would even hold her purse all the time which I thought

was kind of weird. Then he would just be like, Oh, I want to help you with everything. I want to help you out. And that was also his way of getting in. So he loved Bombs term. And then he developed her trust. You know, he was really someone that she could depend on someone that was there for her. We would take walks at the end of the day and he wanted to hear all about my day. He would make me her. We would take walks at the end of the day, and he wanted to hear all about my day. He would make me breakfast.

He would take my dry cleaning in, take my mail to the mailbox. So you thought, I have got the perfect husband. I thought so. So Tara and Jacqueline decided, like, look, something doesn't feel right here, and if mom's not going to dig into it, maybe we should start digging into it.

And that's what they did. They started looking into his background, and they even went as far as to hire a private detective to try to find out what John was hiding, who John really was, what was the truth here. And oh boy, guys, was he hiding stuff. John also apparently had homes all over the country. And there were a ton of women who had taken out restraining orders against him. Clearly a very dangerous and shady individual, to say the least. Plus John was not a real doctor. Just like Tara had indicated when she had found that nursing certificate, it was all

a ruse. And this was especially disturbing because the whole time that John had been with her mom, Deborah, he had made this huge, big, elaborate show of putting on his scrubs every morning, driving to work, to go to work at the hospital. I mean, truly like trying to sell this hoax massively. Now, obviously he was lying, but if he wasn't going to the hospital to work all day, what was he really doing all day? Now, the creepiest part to my mind is what he had been up to before he met Debra. Now remember, he said that he was a part of Doctors Without Borders,

specifically that he had been working in Iraq. Well, as it turns out, that's not where John was. John was actually in prison on charges of drug theft. And John got released from prison literally right before he met Debra. He got out of prison, signed up on a dating website, and then boom, that's when he met Debra. So Jaclyn and Tara felt kind of relieved. They're like, oh, we hate that we were right about this guy, but at least now we have all of this information. We have proof that he's been lying. We have proof of who he really is. He's a con man. All of these things. So they brought all of this evidence to their mom, and they showed

her what they had learned. But what they weren't expecting when they brought this huge revelation to their mom on a silver platter was that she defended John. Deborah thought, no, there must be a reasonable explanation for everything here. Now the good news is that after all of this happened, one of John's former cellmates actually wrote John a letter, and the cellmate sent it to John and Deborah's address. So when Deborah saw the return address and saw that it was for a prison, her curiosity started to get the better of her, and she decided to read this letter. There wasn't anything immediately red-flaggy about the letter other than the fact that this

inmate clearly knew John and had served time with him, but it was now more difficult for her to shrug off the idea of who John may really be. Because apparently prior to that point, it had been a little bit easier for her to just sort of shrug off what her daughters were thinking, to shrug off what they had found. But now she had proof in her hands. John was lying. He was a criminal, and Deborah now could not trust her husband. So that was finally the straw that broke the camel's back, and she decided she needed to look into John's background herself. So Deborah starts doing her own digging. And on top of everything that her daughters had already figured out, Deborah also learned that John had a very long, long criminal record, guys. I mean, some of his past charges were for violent behavior

like stalking and even threatening former significant others. And one woman had even accused him of raping her. And on top of all of that, John was a con artist through and through. He had a very long history of dating women and using them for their money. And John had worked

as an anesthesiologist for a while, but he lost his job due to issues with drugs. So that's when it seems as though he really started to spiral downhill. So now in this moment, it feels like all the walls are closing in. Deborah's realizing that she was conned. She was taken for a ride. This guy isn't at all who he says that he is. He's a complete liar and all of these great things that he had said about how he loved Debra, he wanted them to be something real, it was all a complete lie. He had been using her and he had been intentionally driving a wedge between her and her daughters, basically isolating her so that nobody could stop him from just taking full advantage of her, full advantage of her money, her love, her willingness, everything.

So needless to say, by this point, which was now March 2015, Deborah was ready to ditch John, get rid of his sorry ass, dump his ass, and move on with her life. Except we all know that guys who are manipulative, controlling, isolating, and con artists, they are not known to take rejection well and they do not lay down lightly. And on top of all of that, John had something in common with a lot of other scammers out there. For the most part, in order to even be willing to take advantage of somebody in this way, you have to have what are called three dark personality traits. Narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy. Basically, a willingness to do whatever you have to do, to get

whatever it is that you want, even if it means hurting other people. And this described John to a T. So like I said before, John would go back and forth between these extremes. Sometimes he would be acting super, super sweet like he just wanted Deborah back, that he was sorry, that he loved her, that he would change, and in turn, she would agree to keep seeing him for a little while. But then, they would split again. It was back and forth like this for almost one year exactly, from March 2015 to March 2016. And during that time, Tara did end up moving back to California, just like she had been thinking of doing.

And in the interest of keeping peace within her family, she even tried to find a way to get along with John, to keep an open mind, even after all of the massive red flags that she had seen around him and all of the horrible information that she had discovered. But then, in March of 2016, Deborah finally divorced John. And he took this final breakup especially badly, guys. I mean, John was pissed that Deborah called things off, so he decided to do what we see a lot of narcissist scary people do, and he decided to lash out at her. Think this. Posting revenge porn on Facebook, stealing Deborah's car.

He even went as far as saying that he had relatives in the mafia and that he would send them after Debra if she didn't do what he said. I mean, really scary stuff. And then there were also the threatening phone calls. Tonya, you enjoy your time left on this earth, okay? Because that's what it's gonna come down to. So this whole thing, as you can imagine,

really was frightening for Debra. And frightening enough that she actually went into hiding for a while. Meanwhile, John now had his own place where he lived in just absolute squalor and filth. And I guess it was because when he didn't have a wife or a girlfriend to take care of him, he just couldn't even be bothered to pick up after himself. I don't know, but it was truly disgusting. And while he was now living alone this whole time, it just allowed him to kind of like stew on this anger. And he just got angrier and angrier until finally he went for the ultimate betrayal. And he decided to go after Deborah's daughter. He decided to go after Tara. So on August 20th, 2016, just five months after Deborah and John's divorce, Tara was outside in the parking lot of her apartment building, unbeknownst to her that anybody was watching her, unbeknownst to her that anybody might be following her. She was just living life

like a normal 20-something year old does. It was about 5 30 p.m. She was just minding her business, not even thinking about John, when then, all of a sudden, he appeared out of nowhere, and with him, he was holding a knife. Right away, Tara realized that John planned to kill her, probably all to get back at her mom. And he asked her when he saw her, Do you remember me? And then he grabbed Tara by the waist.

She tried to run away, but Jon started stabbing her multiple times. But Tara fought. She fought back for her life. She was kicking, she was biting, and luckily her service dog that was with her also started barking and trying to help her, trying to save her in all of this. And the good news is that Tara was struggling with him and fighting back enough that she managed to knock the knife completely out of his hands. And then when she did, she grabbed that knife for herself.

And what happened next is honestly a total hero moment, in my opinion. See, Terra had never taken any sort of classes in self-defense and martial arts, nothing like that. She wasn't the sort of person that you'd expect to be able to fight off this violent attacker who was bigger than her, stronger than her. We're talking a full-grown, adult-sized man against this 20-something-year-old young woman. But what Tara did have going for her, even though she didn't have a history with martial arts or anything like that, she was a huge fan of the TV show The Walking Dead. So after watching hour after hour of people killing these zombies on TV, all to, you know,

survive the apocalypse, she had this very, very detailed idea in her head of how she needed to fight and even how she needed to take a life if she needed to. So in that moment, Tara imagined that John was a zombie, which not for nothing, he probably did look like a disheveled crazy ass zombie. So she grabbed his head, she held it back so that he couldn't bite her, and she took that knife and she stabbed him over and over and over until he finally would stop. Now for a lot of the attack,

Tara was kind of just like slashing almost at random. But then she stopped to think about what she had to do to make him leave her alone for good. Because in this moment, she knew that it was dire and she knew that this was the type of fight that was a kill or be killed situation. Newport Beach 911. There's a man up here with a knife and a girl screaming.

Hi, I need an ambulance right away and the police. What happened? Someone's been stabbed and he attacked a girl. I need to get away from this. When the police and the first responders arrived a little while later, they found Tara and John and they were both badly hurt. But here's what's crazy.

Instead of rushing them both to get medical attention because they both had all of these wounds, they questioned Tara as though she was the suspect because they took one look at John, saw that he had a knife wound to his eye, and they immediately started treating her as the perp. Never mind that Tara had also been stabbed and needed urgent medical treatment. They treated her like a criminal, questioning her for hours before they even bothered to get her the help that she needed. I mean, don't get me wrong, I get it that they need to investigate everybody at the scene, but

in my opinion, they kind of fumbled the ball here. And to make matters worse, they tried to check Tara into the exact same hospital where John was already staying, which honestly, what a horrifying and traumatizing situation that must have been. And Tara felt this way. So she put her foot down and she demanded to be transferred somewhere else. She did not want to be anywhere near John because at this point, John was still alive. She was still scared of him. She didn't want to be anywhere in close proximity to him. So eventually, the police did listen to her. And luckily, Tara went on to make a full recovery from her stab wounds. But at this point, John, I mean, he was basically brain dead.

He spent four days on life support before ultimately the medical experts convinced Deborah to pull the plug. I mean, up until that point, even after everything, she just didn't want to let him go. She was really struggling with the idea of taking him off of life support. But finally, she gave the go-ahead on August 24th, and John, dirty John, passed away. And at this point, everybody thought they knew everything that there was to know about John. They knew his history. They knew what was going on. All of his dirty secrets were out. They knew his history. They knew what was going on. They all of his dirty secrets were out. But it wasn't even scratching the surface of what the truth really was

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betterhelp.com slash ae today and get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.help.com slash ae. So John just attacked Tara. She luckily survived. She fought like hell, and now he's been pulled off life support and he's dead. But it was far from over. Because once John was now out of the picture, the whole terrible story about his past came to light. Now, I already covered his scams and his criminal history, but there was so much more in terms of allegations that had not yet been proven. You know, the kind of things that maybe won't show up on your police report. Like once when a pair of police officers started investigating all of John's scams, he actually tried to hire a hitman to kill these detectives. Luckily, no one actually accepted this job and the officers are still alive, but I mean, seriously, the gall of this man, the nerve,

to hire a hitman to kill detectives? Like, are you out of your freaking mind? It really does sound like something was wrong with John too, pretty much from day one. His dad was also very violent, very abusive, and John truly learned all of the wrong lessons from him. On top of that, he had a long history of substance abuse, and he was still using drugs right up until the day that he died. Which I'm sure didn't really do him any favors in terms of helping him manage his anger, his possessiveness, his need to control things. I think that definitely was a contributing factor. Certainly not an excuse, but a factor no less. And get this, on the day that he attacked Tara, he had zip ties, duct tape, basically a whole kidnapping kit, including syringes full of drugs, all tucked away inside his car. I can't even imagine what he would have done to Tara if he actually managed to get Tara into that car and abduct her. It is such a haunting thing to think about. Now the good part,

though, about him having this horrific little like kidnapping kit in his car and his torture devices, I mean the good news was that that proved that Tara truly did kill him in self-defense. So finally, the police eventually stopped treating her like a suspect and treating her like the victim that she is. And luckily, she didn't just escape from John and from this long, drawn-out legal battle. After she survived the attack, she thrived. Since 2016, Tara has gone on to be an expert of sorts of getting out of toxic, manipulative relationships and then recovering afterward. She also has an Instagram that is super popular and a

TikTok channel. Hi guys, I am Tara and I killed my stepdad in self-defense. Her goal in life is to help people, to help take the power back as a victim and not give the power to the abuser or have the perpetrator be the one with their name being heard and their story being told. So Tara also works as a personal coach for people who need to get out of unhealthy relationships. She really is using what she learned during one of the worst parts of her entire life and turning it into something that can really help other people. So I am so beyond excited to have Tara in studio today joining me because not only does she want to correct a lot of the things that have not been completely properly

said in the media, in the podcast, in the TV show, all of the things, but I want you to hear from her what it was like. What it was like uncovering and exposing who John was. What it was like in those moments when she fought back for her life, and telling your own story and what that really means. So, Tara, thank you so, so much for being here. I am so excited to have you. Let's get into it. I am here with Tara. She is the one who I want to say like you fully exposed John for who he is, for the dirtbag he is, but not only that, but you fought back and you came out on top. So I'm so excited to have you here and share some of your story. I know you had mentioned

the previous podcast, the docu-series, the TV series, some things were inaccurate to what really happened and there are some things you want to clarify and make known. So I'm really happy to have you here joining. Yeah, thank you so much for having me here. Yeah, I'm so excited. So what I want to start by is everybody who's listened to this podcast, I know you and I briefly talked about this too, it's really important to us that the victims are the ones who their story is told, that their voice echoes louder than any perpetrator does. And so oftentimes it seems as though the perpetrator is the one being platformed. That's whose name is being out there and that's whose story is essentially being told.

So just to kind of start with Dirty John is obviously a hit podcast. It had I don't even know how many millions and millions of downloads. You probably know the figure exactly. I know it's over 160 million listens. Okay, so huge. I mean, obviously huge. And then they did the whole TV series. So when all of that was happening and you were kind of seeing it in pop culture everywhere and all around,

how did it feel seeing that the name of it was Dirty John and it wasn't something like the Newell family story or Tara Newell or something like that and more hyper focused on him? So at first I was really involved in LA and in production. So at first I was thinking, okay, the name Dirty John, it's a really great like two word, like going to stand out. So I get them using that in marketing. However, as time progresses and I realized that it's not just a TV show, it's not just a scripted series, it's something that's about my life, then I really start to realize

that it doesn't make me feel so good. It doesn't make me feel like the victims were centered. And watching back the documentary, I had to watch it the other day for research with my new project. It was Christopher Gawford telling the other victims stories and I love Christopher Gawford. I think he's a great narrator. I think he's a great journalist. However, we did not know the ethics of true crime and this wasn't a conversation that we were really having back then.

It's really been more so a current conversation. So I didn't realize it until people were kind of asking me and being like, oh, I dated, or they weren't asking me, they were telling me, they're like, hey, I dated a dirty John. And every time someone told me that, it kind of stuck me being like, you didn't have to kill him. And I think that everybody has a dirty someone, or not everybody

if you don't, thank goodness. But to use my attacker's name as their toxic person that they were dating, it isn't fair to me. Yeah, I think that's a great point. And I think it almost kind of, in my opinion, from an outsider diminishes what you went through a little bit if somebody's like, oh, I had one of those or I have one of those too. And you're like, no, you didn't.

Like you have no idea what my experience was like. Right, like I was watching the TV show Pivot, they mentioned it on there and then I have to take a second to really process it because I'm like, it's used everywhere than Will and Grace, they used that whole season of Dirty John with Joe McHale. And then randomly when I watch TV, sometimes they'll mention Dirty John.

That's got to be really surreal for you in those moments, I would imagine. It is. And it's weird because I've talked to like Kim Goldman, who, you know, the OJ case, he just recently passed away. And that's- Is he wanting to say something? I was wanting to say like yes, but it is so much complicated, more complicated for the families and with how they view that they have to mourn it a different way. So I don't want to be like, yes, he's dead. I want to be compassionate for those families. So even though I might feel a certain way, I have to be like, how do those families feel? Because my story is unique for me

and their story is unique for them. Mm-hmm. And so since having this big awakening in the true crime world where people are now starting to have these conversations of making sure that you're sensitive to the victims, that you're telling their story and not highlighting the perpetrator, what steps have you taken to really reclaim this as your own story and your own experience? So I'm actually telling my story less and less now, where I can have more control over it in a sense,

or really kind of collab with people that I wanna collab with and be with, and you know, I like their energy I like their content and really be more selective in that fact because I did get to the place I'm a people pleaser. So I'm like, okay. Yeah, I don't you want me on your podcast for sure I'll be on any podcast because at one time it was like I need to get the word out there, but now it really affects me when I tell my story, when I go through it. And I need to take account to that of what it's like to actually move forward. It was great for a while telling my story, but now it triggers me back and

it doesn't allow me to move on where I'm able to, you know, have kids in the future because I don't, trauma holds in the body and I don't want that to affect them later on. Wow. I feel like that's first of all very mature and very insightful of you, but it sounds to kind of almost like you're ready to close that chapter and start anew in a way and like leave that behind. Oh, yes.

Yeah. So when it was at the height of pop culture and it still of course is it's out there in such a big mainstream way but you were kind of on board with it because you wanted to share your story but now you're just pulling back and removing is that correct? Yeah yeah and you know I worked in production before. I did background work. My ex was a PA. He wanted to be um you know a DP everything, a director of photography. So we were really involved in that space. I worked on Mall Cop 2. I worked on a Sonic commercial, a few other things, random things that didn't go out there as much.

go out there as much, but I worked on a lot of stuff and when you're in that real, everything is romanticized in a sense. Everything is so shiny and so fun and then when you're working in that industry, you're kind of desensitized to it and even when you're watching it on TV, you're desensitized to it because you're not realizing that this is someone's true crime story. And whenever I talk about like ethics and stuff, I tell people, imagine the worst day of your life is now everybody knows about it. How does that make you feel? And I was, you know, I'm moving forward, I'm putting my story behind me now, but I'm also working on a big project to have that kind of final like circle moment. Yeah. And have that closure where I'm trying to connect with the other victims now. I'm trying to hear everyone's story, piece everything

together. So it's really the next step and I'm really excited for that journey. I could share more later on about that. Yeah, definitely. On a different date, but like I'm looking for more and more people that were victims because there's thousands out there. Wow. Well, I know that that's going to be healing in itself for you. Absolutely. Well, I know that that's gonna be healing in itself for you, absolutely. So when you are ready to talk about that, I certainly wanna hear more. I know we've talked offline a little bit about it,

but definitely wanna hear more. But you brought up a good point. You were saying when people are talking about it, it's as though you're reliving the worst day of your life and everybody knows about it. And for me, I talk about a lot of different true crime cases. And so I would say it's fair to argue, just being objective, that I'm part of the problem in all of that.

So I guess my question for you too is some creators I know have told your story without your consent, without making sure that there's accuracy in all of the facts that they're sharing or the storytelling they're doing. Some people have told it without giving you any sort of compensation. So not only what is that

like, because I think you did touch on that, but what advice and what feedback would you give to other creators, myself included, of how to make sure that these stories are being told to raise awareness, but in a delicate manner and in a way that is, again, more victim-focused rather than perpetrator-focused. Yeah, well, I think education is important and that's why I really love this one festival that I go to, it's True Crime and Paranormal Festival. And they kind of try to teach the creators and other people like, okay, these are the people,

this is how they would like you to engage with them. And it's honestly really up to you what you do with a creator but really trying to okay focus on that this this is an actual person if they are talking about their story you know it's so easy to get a hold of them and if they don't then you know there is other true crime stories out there but then I also because I am in the space of a creator and worked in production before I have a little bit more understanding that like creators need to put out that content without

that content these stories wouldn't be put out there but if there's someone being like I absolutely do not want my story told. I think that a creator should respect that. A hundred percent. You know? 1,000%. And there have been times, there's only one time that comes to mind, actually. And I think it was two and a half years ago where we covered

a case and somebody had reached out who's an extended family member. And they're like, we do not want this out there. This was very personal to our family. And immediately, you pull it down. You archive it. You apologize and have respect for them. Where I've heard on the opposite side,

sometimes creators dig their heels in and they're like, no, it's public information, it's fair game, I can do this. And it's kind of like, if somebody's coming to you, vulnerable, asking you not to share this, how on earth can you sleep at night still sharing this? Right. It's crazy to me. Yeah, and then you'll run into maybe another dilemma of the survivor wants their story

out there but the other survivor doesn't. That's a good point. You know and you kind of have to respect that survivor that wants their story out there but also trying not to go into the other person's story. Absolutely. You know and here's how you can also work around that if you're the other survivor. You say, you know, there are other victims in this, but I want to focus on my case in particular. And sometimes you can't tell your story without the other person's story, but you have to try to tell it as best as you can without them a part of it. Absolutely. I think that's a great point and something that a lot of us should take note of for sure.

Now, I do want to talk a little bit about the backstory of everything before we go into the attack, the aftermath, all of those things. And I want to talk to you about your mom for a minute. And again, only what you're comfortable sharing. But you have voiced some frustrations about how she was depicted in the show, in the podcast, about maybe being desperate for dating and settling for somebody who wasn't right for her and that things weren't really accurate to her story. So I was wondering if you could just tell me a little bit more about that. Yeah. So I am doing a lot of research now on everything that was done about me. So I

have a lot of opinions now. Great. Yes. And the podcast starts out painting my mom that she was married four or five times. I can't remember now. I think she was married five times overall. But here's the thing. She grew up in her background was the Nazarene Church and divorce is a no-no in the church. For her to even like leave those toxic relationships, I'm proud of her. She may not have the best picker, but I'm proud of her for leaving because that is so hard to do and there's so many people that are in these types of relationships and will be in them for years. Absolutely. You know, so I think that whenever you and if you are in this

relationship and you haven't left, don't shame yourself. You know, just create awareness and plan that leave. You know, there's no shame in any of it. No, absolutely. I think that's such a great and interesting point that it does take an incredible amount of bravery and courage to leave a relationship, even if it's not one that's super unhealthy or abusive, just one that you're unhappy in and people stay in these unhappy marriages. So for her to have faith and love and want to continue on this journey to find her soulmate, that is incredibly brave. Right? Yeah.

Yeah. So part of the podcast was that she was kind of painted out as desperate, looking for love. She hadn't found her quote unquote man yet, but she had all these successful relationships in the sense of having kids, you know, and she was successful in business. And so I don't like the fact that she was depicted that way. And then it goes into having a male narrate the podcast. A male isn't going to know what a woman is going to feel like when she's on the street, getting whistled at and hooted and hollered at, like we do.

Think of how many times that happens to women and think of how many times that happens to men. Totally. So just from that, a guy can't have a full understanding of what it's like to be a woman in this situation. And then I felt like there was this whole focus on like generational trauma, but not necessarily the right way. I think that it's really important to focus on the fact that my family did grow up in the Nazarene Church.

I think that the story of my mom's sister getting killed is important. In the aspect that, you know, this is a generational curse in a sense. Now, I haven't touched much on that with your mom's sister. Is there anything you feel comfortable sharing? I didn't want to include that in the earlier recap just because it's a very sensitive topic. But if you're comfortable sharing it just to give the listeners a bit of context to what you mean. Yeah. So my mom's sister was killed by her husband during the time she was actually dating Marcus

Allen. During the time she was actually dating Marcus Allen and he was this football player. And then her husband that she was leaving, I believe, I'm not quite 100% sure on this if they got a divorce or if they were getting a divorce. Or what was the case, but I know he went back to the house to figure out like some bills or whatever. And during that time, he shot her in the back of the head in the house. And then he also shot himself in the stomach to try to say that he was trying to kill himself like a murder suicide. Yes. And he survived. Yes.

And especially with a spot where he shot himself in the stomach, it's not fatal at all. Oh, OK. So that was intentional, you believe, yeah? I believe so. Yeah. I can't speculate, but it's very interesting. And then my grandma went and testified for him in court

and forgave him. And I believe because she did that, my mom and I and all of our family members kind of had this huge vision of what forgiveness looks like. That makes sense. It's almost as though it sets the standard and the precedent that you forgive first and you forgive some of the worst evil out there. And I think that's something worth not only noting, but considering too when people are so quick to cast judgments or assumptions, especially with your mom, and why she may have stuck around as long as she did. It's like, because if you're kind of bred with,

we're going to forgive somebody who did this to our own family member, then you do have a lot more, you know, guess openness and ability to forgive other people who aren't even as close to you necessarily. Yeah, and like, you know, there's a lot of cult-y church shows out there now, documentaries. That was basically what she grew up in. You couldn't go to school dances,

you couldn't wear certain clothes, you had to wear dresses, you had to always be like presenting yourself. You know, I can't remember if she went to this one school or not of like how to be submissive to a man. Oh really? But that's like a thing in the churches. Is that still a thing?

It is actually. I feel like maybe we need to do a whole separate episode on that because I've got a lot of things about that. Oh yeah, like the, I believe at uh Let Us Pray that one documentary. Oh um yes. They were talking like the Baptist churches and there's the one in uh Canyon Lake that my one friend Rachel Peach she was a survivor at because the pastor prayed on her. Wow oh gosh a lot of the creeps out there. Well speaking of your mom and the reconciliation, so many times when we talk about cases like these or any sort of cases where there's a level of domestic violence or disputes of

that kind, we always know that it's so easy to fall under somebody's manipulation, under their spell, and really just kind of focus only on them to where you justify all of their actions. So what was it like trying to express your concerns to your mom, harboring a little bit of maybe anger or resentment, once then he came after you, and then trying to reconcile that and move forward? Was that difficult? At first, I think there was a state of shock.

You know, we all had to kind of go through our moments. And, like, when she met him, she met him right after this one guy who she bought a plane for. And he completely screwed her over and cheated on her and, like, just threw her, tossed her, you know, the narcissist like tossed throw away. He totally did that to her after she went

and got him a plane and did all this stuff for him. And so that was her last relationship. So she was already in a vulnerable spot. Then this guy comes in, he claims to be Prince Charming. He claims to be an anesthesiologist. He claims to be a doctorhesiologist. He claims to be a doctor. And he's putting on this face and he's, I don't think he's good looking, but my mom and lots of women did, you know?

And I can see like that white guy, like certain energy. Totally. Big dick energy in a room. Yeah. But really small dick energy. Yes. And so he came in just like presenting to be this person. And she fell in love with it.

And then she was living with my sister. My sister was the one kind of calling things out and kind of being like, you can't live here if you're going to be with him. And then so my mom moved out to Balboa and that's actually when I met him is when they were moving into that place. And I didn't have really any feelings about him at first. My sister did.

And you have a sister, so you know, you can like, you guys can either feed off of each other or you guys can, you know, separate and like, you guys can either feed off of each other, or you guys can, you know, separate and like, have your own feelings. Definitely. And I wanted to separate and have my own feelings, rather than feed into it and then go after my mom and be like, -"Meh." You know? -"Yeah, absolutely." And gang up and...

Yeah, definitely. So, what was that like when you first met him? What was your first impression? Tell me all about it. Tell me everything. Definitely. So what was that like when you first met him? What was your first impression? Tell me all about it. Tell me everything. And we're kind of like assuming like who he is. And then my mom comes down there and then she's like, oh, this is John. And then we're like, oh yeah, we saw him, you know, with the Ambrosia truck because we figured that was him. And he was just not like warm and fuzzy but we were also moving so I was just like okay we're

moving we're busy then we get everything moved and we go into the Balboa place and we're just like chit chatting and stuff I'm asking him questions about his daughters, about his job, about just him in general. And he's giving me all these one word and answers. Well, like where you can't really elaborate on or these like closing in sentences, you know? And I'm just like, okay, I'm just like trying to pull teeth. Yeah, trying to get some information out of him and get to know him. Yeah. And he's just not working with you.

Yeah, but he's, we go to dinner actually, and he does come alive when he's talking about my medical stuff. What about the medical stuff? So I actually, I find out later that I actually had a stomach ulcer. Oh. But he was telling me that I had ovarian cyst. Because he's the doctor. Yes. Yeah.

Uh-huh. He felt like he knew. So he like was now charismatic. He was talking to you and it was like he finally felt like he was contributing to the conversation. Oh yeah. So there wasn't anything specific necessarily that was off putting about him. It was just kind of like a questionable vibe or not even that. Well not at first. So the first trip it was he was hanging around a lot. He was he was always there. And you didn't know he lived there at the time. I didn't. And so I went back to Vegas and then

came back a week later for Thanksgiving. And then that's when I had more questions. And in the meantime, had you been talking with your sister as well? Yes. And what kind of stuff was she telling you? Like, I'm sure just like giving you the scoop and just irate. But I'm pretty sure she was telling me everything that was true. She told me that he is dating multiple women. I

think she told me that he was stealing drugs or doing drugs and I'm like yeah that's true. So she pegged him pretty early on. Oh yeah because I found out too that what he would do is he would go drug shopping or doctor shopping, sorry. He would go to all these different doctors offices and he would go drug shopping or doctor shopping, sorry. He would go to all these different doctors offices and he would sometimes steal their prescription pads and write drugs and then also create relationships with these doctors and get drugs there. I found out also there's like a Newport Beach like pain place that he would get drugs from too. And so that was one of the things.

Then my sister, she didn't have this information yet but she just like figured that he was a convicted felon or something like that. And so she started doing more research. And then that trip, the day before Thanksgiving, I was asking, so he actually went to the hospital. And I have a lot of friends that have been in recovery and have been frequent flyers in the hospital. So my mind went to, oh he's there to get a drug fix. Oh, that's interesting.

Yes, because he said his arm was hurting, and usually with people that do a lot of drugs, their arms might hurt from them injecting stuff into their veins too much. So that was one of my thoughts when, oh, he's at the hospital. And then my hairdresser, she does all my family's hair. So she did John's hair.

And she was telling us just stuff like, oh, he was saying this, this was a little weird. He's driving your mom's car everywhere. And so I went back and I was with my ex at the time. We had our three dogs in the room and I opened up the door and there's all his stuff there and there's a nursing certificate. In my head, I didn't think anything of that like medically, medical wise or anything, but I was like, oh, he's living here.

Oh, so that was like, oh, he's living here. Oh, so that was like the aha moment. Yes. Now that it is summertime, I kind of let all of my New Year's resolutions go the first half of the year, but I am definitely now trying to take care of myself for summer, eating healthy, using sunscreen,

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And what else was happening around this time aside from the hospital visit that was making you now start to feel like maybe my sister's right? Maybe this guy is not necessarily a con artist, but not a great guy, not a good fit for my mom. What other kind of things were happening in that time? He had this elaborate story about how all his cars and his, like he had a quote unquote motorcycle that got stolen and all the stuff got stolen from storage in Cathedral City. I said that that sounds weird. Why doesn't he have the insurance money

from any of that? Where's his car? Where's his rental car? I just did a whole thing with my insurance where someone hit me and I was able to haggle them for a rental car. Totally. You know? So I was like, where is all that stuff? You know? Nothing was adding up. Yeah. And how was his behavior during all of this as well? Were you starting to notice anything with anger issues or him being irritable or how he was treating your mom? So I like barely had like I only had like the first week with him like the first weekend and that was just like a little iffy but then the second one, so I did all the grocery shopping and everything for Thanksgiving, and he comes back from the hospital with my mom,

and my mom comes up to the doorway and is saying to me, why are you questioning this? Why are you asking, you know, this is my life. Why, like, why are you asking about his car situation? Why are you asking about this? Like, and then I was like, why are you asking about his car situation? Why are you asking about this? Like, and then I was like, why are you driving him? Like, why is he using your cars? And that was what our fight was about.

And then he comes up behind her and starts yelling at me and is telling me, Tara, you only want your mom for yourself. You don't want your mom to be happy. Tara, you want all her money and I start yelling F use back at him And then we're just yelling arguing telling each other to F off and stuff And then my mom literally turns in to my boyfriend at the time and she says like do you think any of this? And then he's he's really calm he is a good guy um and he's saying well Deborah you know I

agree with Tara yeah this is you know not normal this is weird there's something fishy and then so we're just packing up my stuff our all our stuff because you were planning to leave then. Was it just that uncomfortable? Well, we were kind of like getting kicked out. Oh, you were? Yeah. We're getting into this big argument.

Like it's not safe to like stay here in a sense. And then I'm also saying like, you know, like you're basically kicking me out. I don't think I said that saying like, you know, like you're, like you're basically kicking me out. I don't think I said that like exactly, but I said like, like something to be like, hey, don't leave, you know, like hoping that you'd say that. She would say like, Tara, don't leave, let's work this out. Yes, but I was like, you're choosing him over me.

That must have felt devastating. It really was. And I mean, there's times where I still, like Thanksgiving still like, like a moment, you know? But it's better now. And he's not here so. So it's extra better. It's extra better. And I think that we have gotten past a lot of that. Good. But it was not fun during the time and then the next day, well I actually, my boyfriend and I, because we lived in Vegas, we weren't going to drive all the way back to Vegas.

Yeah. And I mean maybe we should have, but we ended up going to my sister's house and, well, apartment, and that place actually didn't allow dogs, so we had to sneak in the dogs and boxes and bring them upstairs and stuff. And then I just remember that night, he would do this thing where he would give my mom sleeping pills and stuff just to be like, oh, calm down.

I'm a doctor, just take this. It'll take the edge off, let me take care of you. Yes, and then she would pass out and then he would take her phone and then message us from her phone pretending to be her. Saying what kind of stuff? So that night he told my sister that she should kill herself.

Oh my God. Jumping face first off of the building, like it was a high rise that she lived at, would be preferable. And just like saying the most horrific things. But when he was sending these messages, he wasn't typing it out like my mom. So you guys knew?

My sister couldn't quite like put that, you know, in that moment. But later on she knows, you know? And I kept telling her, I was like, I don't think this is mom. Look at the wording. I don't think this is mom. But instead I was holding my sister hysterically crying

because for a mother to say that to a child, you know? Well, and you had mentioned something too when you had said that when you were at the house and he came up behind your mom and said, Terry, you want her all to yourself, you want her money, this and that. Note for everybody and anybody listening, if you're ever in a relationship

or your parents are ever in a relationship and the partner is saying something like that, run. Because a partner should be nothing other than supportive of your kids, welcoming of your children, definitely not trying to pit them against each other. So that is huge in itself. And it seems as though he was just kind of projecting

what his own intentions were, which obviously now we know in hindsight. So as all of that was happening with your sister, how was she feeling? Because she had been calling him out as like this scumbag. Now it felt as though your mom was turning against her. I would imagine that that was just catastrophic. Yes.

So we were invited to Thanksgiving, but my sister showed up anyways. I remember, I think she like threw some stuff off the table or something like that. It's funny because looking back at the series, like the series that they made where Juno Temple, she's like- Oh, the TV series. Yeah. She like did something and not seen and I was like, that was a lot more dramatic in

real life. So your sister was definitely not holding back. Oh, no. She would say what she felt. She would act out. Yeah. And how old was your sister at the time? So my sister, we're 15 months apart in age.

So she was, I was. That's just like me and my brother. How funny. Like literally, exactly. Oh, I love that. OK, sorry. Keep going. So she was, why was 24 or 23 when they met?

So I would want to say she was like 24. So that's pretty courageous and bold too for both of you to be in your early to mid-20s and being so vocal about your concerns about what's happening and like not holding back any attitude as well. So as all of this was happening, obviously, like you're starting to see some red flags. You're not quite sure what the truth is, what's going on. And I believe you told your sister at one point

that you were afraid that John might hurt you. Is that right? Or that you were scared of him in some sort of way? Absolutely, but I think at that point- Hurt your mom, I'm sorry, hurt your mom. Well, we were all scared at first. Not my mom necessarily, because she didn't quite like put it all together yet. But we started piecing things together.

My sister hired a private investigator with my brother-in-law and then my other sister. And they started to look into him. They found out that he was using different social security card numbers, that he had a storage in Cathedral City, and in that storage there was a backpack with zip ties, a children's book, stuff for Chloropharm.

A children's book? Yeah. Okay. Right? Creepy. Creepy, creepy. Creepy. And duct tape in there. And so we found out

that he was incarcerated also before he met my mom for stalking someone and that he had just like multiple restraining orders on him. He was very, he had a rap sheet like no other. And so that's what we started putting together. And then I actually had dreams that he was coming after me and that I stabbed him and was stabbing him over and over again during that time. And then I always had this feeling of being watched. And was this while your mom was still with him or after she finally Decided to leave the whole time. So this time she was still with him And here's the thing with John John was didn't want to like

Women were his prey Mm-hmm. It wasn't necessarily other men. He would definitely get into it with other men, but he would never go after a man like he would a woman. And I think this also has something to do with his mother, going back to his mother's relationship with him because at one point he hated his mother. And so my mom eventually left him, took everything out, but then John was able to take my mom to different lawyers and convince her that there's other John Meehans and that this wasn't

him. And she was, she would believe him. Yes. And I honestly, because I've been going back into court reports and everything, there is a lot of John Meehan out there. Yeah, it's not an uncommon name. Oh yeah, and there's like a, there is I think like a legit doctor in Newport named like John Meehan too.

Oh, okay. So there's a lot of different people out there, so that's totally believable. And especially taking that person to a lawyer and having the lawyer say this to them, you know, but lawyers can lie to you too. Oh, absolutely. So what was the, finally, like what was the final straw where your mom was like, I'm not believing anything this guy's saying, I'm out. And then what was that like for the relationship between the three of you, your sister, yourself

and your mom? So there was little things over time where, you know, before she left him the first time, he got a letter from jail and he snatched that out of her hands, told her that it's a federal offense or something like that to open someone else's mail and kind of scared her with that. And then as time goes on, he's able to convince her to get back and then she gets back together with him and she wants to create this whole new life. She wants to see how maybe he could get along with kids

and you know, if she believes this, we'll believe it later on. You know, it's really interesting because like, when you're in it, you're in it, and you're in that love bubble, but then you're realizing all these things which my mom was doing. And then my mom got to the point

where she actually hired a private investigator to look into him. And then starting to plan her leave and talking to different lawyers because she couldn't just like Get up and leave this man. This guy was so dangerous. Absolutely. Yes, you have to plan your leave You have to you have to and even if you have it planned I forget what the exact statistic is, but I think they say it takes several times until you have it seven

That's right until you're able to actually leave successfully. So when she was ready to leave, what did she call you and your sister to tell you like, hey, I'm finally leaving. I see the light or I see what you've been talking about. What was that like? So she was trying to plan things. I believe he, and don't quote me on this one for say, but I believe he found money. Okay. And found out that she was hiding stuff from him and everything. He confronted her on it and it was in the closet

and he then was trying to tell her like, hit me, hit me, hit me. And if you hit me, you'll never get up again. Wow. That's actually what he said pervade him. You know, if you hit me, you'll never get up again. That's actually what he said pervatum. If you hit me, you'll never come up, get up again. And so my mom was packing her stuff. She literally left with one shoe.

I remember her saying, she's like, I left with one shoe. She packed only like one pair of the shoe. And then she got ahold of my sister, drove out to Vegas and packed up the full house, videotaped everything that brought my mom's movers, the people that worked for her because she had a moving company too for her interior design business. And so they've just recorded everything, packed it up. Meanwhile, he calls the cops and says, oh, she hit me. And right.

And she's in a different state. So that gets dismissed. And then time goes on and then he does more stuff. time goes on and then he does more stuff. He lights her car on fire and like moves it to a different location. The cops had that for a minute. And then he also ran his car that my mom got him into a gate in Vegas, like into, you know,

like the gates when you enter into that community, like into one of those gates and just left the car there. The car was completely trashed with like, Del Taco wrappers and just wrap, food wrappers everywhere in the car. So that kind of gives us evidence too that he was also stockiness because he was always in the car. And something he would do too,

is he would leave the dog that he got with my mom at the Vegas house with a big bowl of food and water, leave the door open, and then the dog would escape all the time trying to look for him. And that dog kept ending up in the pound. So what kind of like spiraled was like all these things kind of happening and then I ended up getting his dog. My mom went to Vegas got the dog from the pound waited a few days

for him to get it though because we didn't want to step on his toes or anything and then we had the dog. I'm taking care of the dog because I work at a kennel, a dog kennel. I get to bring the dog to work with me. And then I think that, but I don't know, this could be speculation. I think that could have even pissed him off in ways too.

Okay, that's a good point. Right, but I don't know and it's funny because so the night before my attack he's following my sister and actually at my mom's place and my sister sees him she's with her guy friend at the time and she chases him down in the car. guy friend at the time and she chases him down in the car. He gets off the freeway and they lose him. My sister actually goes to my place. I at that time worked very early in the morning. I had to get to work at 7 a.m. every day. And so she just came by my house. She listened to the door, like heard cash by the door and then was like okay Tara seems fine and she also let me know hey saw him you might want to keep your knife with you

I went to work the next day I was trying to leave early because I was going to the Jason Aldean concert and I was trying to like plan that out and So the day before I had a call for two Rhodesian rich backs to get groomed but it was this guy calling in a fake French accent and All the dogs were barking so I usually get so's name, phone number, all their details and everything that he called at feeding time and I like didn't get any of that. I was just like oh yeah come in tomorrow bring your dogs um because also Rhodesian rich backs for a dog groomer is not that hard of a groom like if you're I don't even know what kind of dog is what kind of talk is that? What does it look like? So it's a tan one with like black or brown ears and it's they're known as like lion hunter dogs Okay, I'm gonna Google it. Yeah, and they're they're cute

Um, but it's like a smooth coat so you don't have to cut their hair or anything like that like you would a shih tzu Okay, so I was like, okay, that's in and out, you know? And then I started waiting for them and they were no shows. And then I'm like, okay, I get to go home earlier and I get to get ready so that I could leave work earlier. So he actually messed up my schedule. Even though he thought like, oh, I'm gonna find out her schedule

so I know exactly where she's at. He messed it up. And I get home, I get like partially ready. I do like the foundation, the blush and the eyebrows. And then I save the eyes for when I get off work. And then I drive home like, well, actually, my mom actually picked up his dog, her, him and her dog that they had together. And then I went home and got ready, came back to work, and then did everything and then left like 20 minutes early. And did you have any thought or inkling in this moment that he might be coming after you? You know that he was following your sister, that she spotted him. I would imagine you guys were relieved that your mom was now away from him, but of course all the stuff with the

carving on fire, the following, the stalking, that you were worried about everybody's safety. Did you have any thought that he would come after you specifically? I did. I even wrote my ex a letter. Really? Yes, telling my ex that he gets the dog if I die. And when did you write that? Like in comparison to when the attack took place? Like a month in advance, weeks? A month or two before the attack.

So you were constantly living in fear. Is that fair to say? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I actually went over to... He... Like, we were broken up, but I went and, like, stayed at his place where he was living at the time. It was funny because, like, he lives with, like,

he works in the industry and lives with, like, his friends are actors and stuff. Mm-hmm. So I was literally, like, going to all these, like, famous actors' houses and, like, just like going to all these like famous actors houses and like just staying there and not like famous famous, but like his friend was on Atypical and like, oh, United States of Terra and stuff, all that. So I was going and he was staying there while he was, while his friend was working on movies. And it just felt like a sense of safety.

And it was like this legit fear of like, I'm watching over my shoulders everywhere, and I don't even feel safe to be at a place that's an hour away with my ex-boyfriend. And what's that like? Because at that moment, it's like, there's nothing you can really do as far as getting in order of protection, an hour away with my ex-boyfriend. And what's that like? Because at that moment, it's like, there's nothing you can really do

as far as getting an order of protection, restraining orders, anything like that, because he hasn't made any actual threats against you, right? So- Which not that a piece of paper does fucking anything, but. He did like make certain threats to my sister, but, and he knew all the ways around everything. Yeah, he was calculated.

Yes, like he sent my sister a picture of her birth certificate with spit on it in a picture. And then I feel like we're kind of fiery sometimes, my sister and I, but I was just trying to stay out of this. I was just like, this guy is, you know, I'm willing to work with him to make mom happy, but- But she's done at this point, right? Yeah, she's done at this point.

So now he's like losing, he's like, I don't have a grasp on anybody anymore, I'm losing it. Yes, and well, like part of the reason why she was like done too is because she hired her private investigator and then she had a stack, like at least two inches of a stack of papers on him. Wow. Like and then one of the pictures, I remember her showing me this picture and.

It's the one where he cut open his stomach in jail and he stuffed feces in it. Well, hold on. Hold on, hold on, hold on. What? Yeah, so. He cut his stomach open. Yeah, because John was such an addict, he cut his stomach open in jail

and then he shoved feces in it so that he could go to the medic and stuff and go to the hospital and get his drug fixed. His own feces? I'm not quite sure. But like okay what would that do? I mean obviously would like cause an infection I would imagine and make you very sick but like so he had an open wound and he put poop in it. Yes and if you do that you have to be on a lot more stuff and a lot more antibiotics and stay there a little bit longer. Wow. Yeah. So he like knew all of the tricks. I have literally, I thought I've heard it all, never heard that. So thanks for the enlightening. Of course. Well then it's funny too because I'm

like hearing stories about him and there's this one story in all the Cops, he literally fell down an elevator shaft with a cop trying to run away from them. This guy, okay, like I thought I knew a lot about this guy. You're continuing to blow my mind. It really makes sense why his name is Dirty John, just like shoving shit in his own body. I can't, but like, and it kind of brings a whole new meaning to the phrase full of shit. But okay, sorry, that just like it's blowing my mind. But continue, continue.

No worries. Yeah. So he he's done a lot of shit. And so, OK, yeah, back to the more serious part. So he ends up I end up driving home from work that day. Did you have any sort of sense that something was off that particular day? I know you had been living in fear, but did you think anything specific that day felt off? So I was so distracted by the concert. Yeah. I was like, I'm gonna get ready. I gotta do this. I gotta do that. I got, got to meet my friend afterwards who I'm going with because I paid for all the tickets,

well, I paid for my friend's ticket that night and when you're 25 and lawn seats are $100, that's a lot for you. Of course. Especially like 10 years or eight years ago now. Yeah, definitely. You know? So I, in my mind, I spent a lot of money on this.

I was like, gonna get there. I was going to have a great time. And I was also recovering from the breakup in a sense. So I was trying to live like my best single girl life. And so I was just preoccupied by everything. And I get home, I pull into the parking garage, the gate is broken. I actually complained about like the gate a day prior. And I see a guy who's backed up into a space and he's wearing a, or no, he was wearing a straw cap. Like a straw hat, I guess.

Sorry, sometimes the moments come back to me and I have like realizations that click in that moment. Take your time. So he was wearing a straw hat and that was in the police report. And he is just fiddling with like a tire iron. He's outside of the car. Yeah, like by the trunk. But it's fastened and reversed. Oh, it's reversed into the space.

Yes. Okay. And I'm not putting two and two together, but my dog is literally barking at him and aggressively barking at him and growling at him. And I think because, you you know by 17th Street, Newport, the Coronado's, now 1880, you know there's some homeless people, unhoused people over there. And I literally am just thinking, okay, he looks like he's an unhoused person. So I pay, I tell my dog knock it off. And then I pull into the spot where I

normally park, but I don't have a sign parking. I'm just a creature of habit. And I get out of my car, I grab my dog in the back seat. And then as I'm walking by the license plate, I get grabbed by the waist. He looks me in the eyes. I look him in the eyes and he says, do you remember me? And in that moment, were you kind of not numb, but looks me in the eyes, I look him in the eyes, and he says, do you remember me? And in that moment, were you kind of not numb, but were you in shock to where you weren't registering who it was? Or did you automatically immediately know, oh, this is fucking dirty John, this is John. Well, and during that time, his name really wasn't like dirty John to me. No, I know, I know, I know. I was thinking more like this grimy, dirty, unhoused little John guy.

I was thinking, oh shit, he's here to kill me. And right when I looked at him, I knew I actually couldn't respond to him because I needed to save my energy in a better way. And I immediately tried to detach from him. I wasn't able to detach from him. And then that's he starts. I'm not sure actually what came first, but he's tried to cover my mouth. And then he, I put my purse up over my heart. It was like a nice little leather clutch. And I just feel like I'm getting punched. Okay. And so that's happening. And then-

Were you on the ground at this point? No. No. Okay. Like I just felt like I was getting punched. I dropped my dog's leash and everything so that he can get away and run away or whatever do what he needs to do. And then I'm not sure if it happened after I was quote unquote getting punched but I was really getting stabbed but he covers my mouth and I bite him as hard as I can and then he doesn't even try to cover my mouth. And okay that's actually

this that's what happened sorry so he tried to cover my mouth first and that's when I bit him and that's when he gets angry and then he starts punching me well what I thought was punching me but he really is trying to stab me and he has the knife in a Del Taco bag so I don't know that he has a knife with him oh so you are thinking this is just his fist. He's hitting me. I keep feeling this pressure. Yes. And everything's happening in like milliseconds. Like now to this day, like I could really go back and feel like this sharp sensation of the stab going into my chest, but like during that time I just felt like it was a punch. And so I'm just biting him.

I think I'm even screaming, although when you're in this moment, you're like silently screaming in your head, but you're screaming out loud. And I end up on the ground and I fall on my shoulder. My shoulder gets scraped pretty badly. And then he's on his knees. My dog is attacking his ankles and stuff. And I, at this time, I see the knife is apparent. So he's trying to bring it down onto me

and I'm wearing rain boots because I just came from my job as a kennel attendant and I'm kicking and blocking his, kicking his forearms as he's trying to bring down the knife onto me. So the knife isn't able to make contact but actually I think it made contact one time or twice in this case. Actually, I'm not sure. Actually, just once, just once. But it barely graced my face and it was so like it was like a paper cut to my face. I was so lucky. And then he comes back down and then I do another kick and then I kick his forearm and then the knife falls on my right hand side and I just pick it up and then I just start whaling on him. I think that I'm stabbing him in the front of his chest but my mind, my brain is compartmentalizing that trauma and will only allow me to see that rather than what I was really doing which was overthrowing it to his back shoulder. And that's when he actually gasped, he starts to lose

energy in his body and then I start to hold his head because I don't want him to bite me like a zombie does. So I'm holding his head and then the last two I actually give thought to. I stab him once in the forehead and then the last one was to the eye which is the softest point of entry to the brain. So I do that and then I throw the knife, I toss the knife, I start to scoot away from his body, start to assess the situation. I see that I'm bleeding from my forearm, so I start to apply pressure to that. And then I look around, I see my dog

is starting to eat the Del Taco. At this time, there's a lady that comes up to me with a yellow lab, and then she's asking, what can I do to help. I tell her to grab my dog because I in my head I'm thinking I always have my dog with me he could have brought the deltaca to have poison in it. Oh wow so now at this point because it has slowed down a bit you're starting to think you were able to be more concentrated with those stabbings at the final two and then now you're figuring out what's going on and you're starting to get reoriented

Somewhat I'm still in a state of shock. Yeah, I'm but I'm starting to be like, okay What do I need to do in my survival mode? What I'm What do I need to do to get better? In a sense or to take care of the situation Then the guy starts to give John CPR to get better in a sense or to take care of the situation, then the guy starts to give John CPR. I try to tell, and this is what I actually kept repeating to everyone.

I said, that was my stepdad, he tried to kill me. That was my stepdad, he tried to kill me. Because I kept trying to give them as little information as possible to make Not give too much, you know But enough for them to know the situation and exactly what happened because I'm also thinking oh Crap, I well, I'm not thinking oh crap because I'm thinking I'm in the state of shock, but I'm thinking like I

Can't I watched so many true crime shows and was it, like it just like, I loved SVU and like all the law and orders and CSI. So I knew, okay, if I give so much information to, this could backfire on to me and people could think that I just killed this guy. Definitely. So I'm just trying to be like, that was my stepdad. He tried to kill me.

That was my stepdad. He tried to kill me. So they know that there's a relationship. That person was trying to kill me. You know, it's not some random dude on the street too. It's not a, you know, my boyfriend even in a domestic dispute or anything. It was my stepdad coming after me with a plan. It's incredible to me that not only were you able to fight this grown-ass adult

man off based on things that you had learned from TV too because you had mentioned you didn't want him to bite you like a zombie. You went for the eye because you know that's the softest point of entry. But then even the steps in the immediate aftermath, the dog, the poisoning, putting pressure on the wound, not pulling anything out, all of this you were able to learn from TV and how to react to the situation. That's pretty incredible. And that you were able to think quick enough on your feet to react that way in real time.

Like that honestly blows my mind. It is... I don't think a lot of people would react that same way. And so, you should be very incredibly proud of yourself for that. Absolutely. Thank you. Of course. Of course. So, walk me through then, after you're telling everybody,

my stepdad tried to kill me, what's happening now? Somebody I'm sure, surely, is calling 911. I think like 20 people called from their balcony or something like that. I'm trying to get the phone calls now, but I think it was like 20 something people or something like that. So there were a lot of witnesses at the scene.

Oh yeah, because where he attacked me, it was on like the open parking structure on top. And then there was at least three stories of apartments. And so there was at least like, I don't know, there was at least 40 that could like see the full view. Wow. You know, and so yeah, and then then on the other side, too, there was even people that could have looked from that way too. So it was a lot of, you know, and I was screaming, I was screaming loud. So people even heard me from that. And I did every single thing right in my attack. And that's what I want other women and other people to know that I did everything right. And if you do these steps, you have a higher chance of surviving.

Absolutely. They always say whether it is whatever the situation is, whether you're running and you're abducted, you're abducted somewhere else at a target parking lot, anywhere you are, don't ever go willingly. Don't ever just like lay down, don't take it. Don't think that, okay, if I just go with them and go quietly, like I'll make it way less worse or I'll have a better chance of getting out of it.

Absolutely not. Statistically, you have to scream, fight as hard as you can, make a scene, collect DNA as you're doing it. And like, that is what's gonna give you the better chance of coming out of this alive. Oh, yeah, and so I called my mom. I told her I'm so sorry. I think I killed your husband. I knew he would do this and then she goes into the phone call and is like, what? What?

Something that we had talked about when you and I went to lunch is that starting kind of right away when they were on the scene it almost was though I get they have to look at everybody and think everybody suspects, but they almost started treating you like the perp, asking you a ton of questions. And meanwhile, you had an open wound during all of this. So what was that like when they're the ones harassing you and you look over and they're getting CPR to John and like that kind of feeling of everything. I mean, that was a lot. And in my head, I'm thinking like, oh, I'm okay. So I'm not, but then I realized

I do have this wound on my arm. And luckily the paramedics, they did wrap that up once I stopped doing phone calls. And the cops started to ask me a little bit, but they let me kind of deal with that. And then my mom showed up and then my mom took the dog and everything. And then they started to do stuff to me

and they wanted to put needles and stuff in me. And I'm terrified of needles. And my dog is a ESA dog, so he would go to the hospitals and the doctor's offices with me to begin with. And like actually he was more so a therapy dog. Literally he came to the doctor or in the ambulance with me and I told them, I was like, basically I could sue you if you don't get me and my dog right now.

Because my dog is working for me. Not to mention that your dog is therapeutic and a service animal for you on a normal day. Not to mention somebody just tried to kill you. Like you need your freaking dog with you. Yeah. And so when they let me have my dog, then I was like, okay, you guys could do

what you need to do. And then, so we go to Newport, and I get there, and I'm in the hallway, just waiting there. And I'm just like waiting there. And I'm just like, I don't know what to do and stuff, but I'm just like here. And then eventually they put me into your room. And then they're asking me questions over and over and over and over again.

And I was explaining this to someone recently that it's it's not like they were like, oh my gosh she killed someone but they were just there needs to be a little bit more kindness. Yes and that's something we talked about at lunch though your treatment at the hospital and with female and male medical professionals so what was some of that treatment that stuck out to you or mistreatment, I should say, and what advice would you give to them for future victims

and the handling and the bedside manner with all of that? So I want to say, not that I wasn't believed or anything like that, but they were like, whoa, what just happened? You know, they needed to put all the pieces of the puzzle together so they were just like interrogating me asking me questions over and over again and at this point sewing came in cut the wrap that they had on my arm so i'm sitting there with like a one inch open wound and i'm having to answer all the questions they're taking pictures of that wound and that's why they also cut open the

wound because they needed to take pictures of it, too it's a male taking pictures of me and He's just trying to get pictures of everything and stuff, but here's the thing if they brought in a woman and She would ask me for consent and everything and be like, I wanna do this, I wanna do that, let's put all the male energy out of the room since you just got attacked by a man. Let's go about it a different way.

I would have had a better interview process. I would have been better taken care of and I wouldn't have been re-traumatized by everything in the hospital. And then because of that stab wound,umatized by everything in the hospital. And then because of that stab wound, I have to then go to the ICU. And that's where John was? Well, they were going to bring me there.

Okay. But then I told them no way in heck. Because he was still alive at this point. So he was brain dead. But yeah. But he was on a ventilator and everything. Okay. Then I go into this room where they're touching me everywhere, like everywhere, like private

parts, everything. And they're just grabbing me, poking me with needles, pricking my finger. And I'm screaming at the top of my lungs. And I'm looking at my mom. And like, she's where like the sound panels are. So like 50 feet away on the other side. And I'm just screaming at like top of my lungs, staring at her,

being like, I wish she could help me. I wish someone could help me because it was another, it was just like a re-traumatization with being touched and not having consent. And then it's like, I don't even like, with significant others, like allow them to like touch me and stuff like that. And so it was just like, no one was asking to do anything.

Everybody was just doing, and then I was, it was a violation again. So that really, I had to calm down from that. And then I remember being in the hospital, just like trying to calm down and watching the age of Adeline. And then the next day, like it was blurry because I guess I had, I had exploratory surgery to see if I was bleeding out, but I was in there for like a few days. And then I eventually got out of there and then I went home

and then that's when like my ex came and helped me with everything and was there for me. And then everybody else was just in a state of shock. Yeah. Between your mom, your sister and you, it's like now all of this stuff, all of this fear that we've been having for months over a year, it's come to a head,

and this monster tried to kill our sister, your daughter, and that would be, I would imagine, very difficult to deal with and have as a realization. And I would imagine your mom probably would carry some heavy feelings with that as well. Yeah, no, I think that she was like, I can't believe this happened, trying to digest everything and also feeling that guilt. And it was funny because I couldn't go back to my apartment, but not because like I couldn't go back there. It was more so everyone was telling me like what I could and couldn't do during that time.

And then I was just like, okay. So I really didn't have like a sense of like renormalcy, but then it was also, I couldn't go back to work too, because my dog was in my attack with me. And because of his bark, I was triggered by dog barking. Oh. Yeah. I could definitely understand that.

And then I think even the fact that John called me and I didn't piece all this together until later, that John called me at my work and stuff that created a trauma of itself. Of course, it's like a constant reminder. Yeah. And he didn't stalk me, but I think he did well actually that is stalking He did visit my work a few times just to go around the block Tara. That is the definition of

So after all of this it's now been several years and You're still you're it's never going to'm sure, be a complete journey where you're fully healed and you've come full circle out of it. You do what you can, but how's your relationship with your mom? How's your relationship with your sister? How's their relationship? Is everything good now and are you guys stronger than ever? How does that look?

I say, you know, there's always so much to deal with and go through especially trauma like this I think that everybody is still is healing. Mm-hmm I think that because I've really had a lot of time to heal. I'm at a better spot than anyone is but I've been forced to deal with it and I didn't choose this attack that happened to me. So it was kind of like, okay, I got to do the healing. And I'm very grateful to have financial support at that for the last seven years. Now I'm kind of like, okay, I got to make it work all on my own now.

So you've now since then, and especially recently, you've mentioned briefly a little bit about the projects that you're working on. You had a podcast and we can table a little bit of that if you know you know. You've really dedicated your career to helping other survivors of these violent crimes and it does feel like you're kind of the perfect person to be in that position to do that because of what you've experienced and everything you've learned from that. So tell me do you think that not only your experience but your history help bring something else to the table with helping other victims? How do you feel that's going for

you? 100%. It is funny because I was literally baking cookies and that's how I got connected to you. And it's whenever I do things that are even not in my alignment, it brings me back to my alignment of like sharing my story, but in a different fashion now, you know, and helping other victims. And it's really cool because this project that I'm working on now, I can't give like too much information, but I'm working with the other survivors of John. And then after that, it may transpire into me helping other survivors with their story

and getting out there. I've even like connected a few friends with my friend that's a producer who helps. She is Melissa Moore. She's the smiley face killer's daughter. And she literally took her career and made it into something where she helps victims now. I'm like, she's my mentor. I love what she did and I wanna do the same. I wanna get survivors like ethical treatment on set.

I wanna get them money for their story if I could get them money for their story, you know? And I get that like not everything pays, but if there's gonna be like a documentary out there, there's gonna be people on set getting paid, like the cameraman, everything, all of that, then they need to get a rate too. Absolutely. I think that's extremely important. And I think that that is justified, absolutely.

Right. So statistically speaking, chances are that right now during this episode there's somebody who has a family member or maybe they're directly impacted, a romantic partner themselves who's being manipulated, who's abusing them, who is suffering. What would you tell them right, given everything you experienced? I say education is so important. You know, I'm always here to do a 15 minute consult call with. You can always go on my website, book that, because I want to help out anyone I can.

And I think, you know, 15 minutes, like I can always give away 15 minutes for free for someone. But I say plan your leave, get knowledge, like know everything before you make that execution. Also another great person to check out who's on YouTube is Dr. Amani. She is amazing. She also has a new book that just came out, It's Not You. And I think that she's one of the main people I look up to for uh narcissist abuse and all that and understanding like these

characters uh these cluster b personalities out there and so I think that you know find resources you know just start educating yourself absolutely well I really appreciate you being here I appreciate you sharing your story I know you're going to be closing the chapter on this soon. So, alright guys and don't forget to check out all of the amazing deals from our sponsors today. I have linked them all in the show notes for you below, but remember supplies is limited, so grab them while they're hot. I'm very thankful for having you here and for sharing your insights, so thank you so much. Well, thank you. Thank you for being one of the last creators.

You're welcome. I'm so honored. I'm so honored. Well, thank you. We'll link all of your stuff too in the show notes so everybody can check out where to follow Tara, where all the projects she's working on, once you're able to announce everything too. But it'll all be, I'm sure, on your website too for everybody as well.

Oh, yes. Yes. Okay. Great. Got lots of stuff. All right. Perfect. Well, thank you guys again for tuning in to today's episode of Serialistly. And until the next one, please stay safe. All right, bye. Bye.

Bye.