SERIALously - 190: Kids Hide As Parents Are Shot 42x, Hockey Brothers Murdered Before Wedding, & Serial Killer in NYC?

Episode Date: September 5, 2024

Today’s episode dives into everything happening this week in true crime. From new cases to updates on existing ones and more. Beam:  Head to https://www.shopbeam.com/ANNIEELISE  and use code ANNIEELISE for an additional 40% off. Don’t forget supplies are limited and you can only shop it through my link. We're going on TOUR!! Come see one of our episodes LIVE in a city near you! Head to https://annieelise.com/blogs/events for dates and ticket info! Shop the Merch: www.annieelise.com Follow the podcast on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@serialouslypodcast   Follow the podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/serialouslypod/       Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/annieelise     All Social Media Links: https://www.flowcode.com/page/annieelise_    SERIALously FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/SERIALouslyAnnieElise/    About Me: https://annieelise.com/   For Business Inquiries: [e-mail] Muna Pandey GoFundMe: https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-muna-pandes-legacy Sources:  Fox4 Beaumont Law&Crime NBC New York  Wjla news Wsaz news  Audio Sources:  6abc Philadelphia WSYX ABC 6 WUSA9

Hey, True Crime Besties, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. Today we are breaking down all of the headlines that are going on this week in the true crime world. We have got brand new cases that are breaking that are so devastating. Honestly, some of these are just so incredibly difficult to even talk about. We also have some updates and some existing cases that we have been covering and some updates I just want to give you with those. And then some like emerging cases where there's a possible serial killer on the loose in New York. I mean there is a lot we got to go through today so you're going

to be with me for a minute. I also wanna quickly announce we officially launched our fall merch collection. It launched yesterday. There's only a few items left, so if you want something, I would advise that you grab it quickly. But to give you a little bit of a rundown, it's our Stay Safe collection. And if you've been listening to me for a while,

you know that at the end of every episode, I always sign off and say, stay safe. And this collection was really important to us because we wanted to do something that was Beneficial to people and what I mean by that is one of the items that we have worked on for several months trying to get It right is a safety kit in it. We have personal alarms Hotel locks because hotel break-ins have been on the rise. We have Route like anti-roofy drink covers. There's tools in there, like a tool for glass breaking,

windshield breaking, seatbelt cutter, everything just in this little pouch. And it's something, like I said, we've been working on it for a while, and we just wanted to make a kit that was accessible to everybody, and also especially young women, unfortunately, with college back in session

and one in four girls being assaulted in some type of way on campus and people when you're running and out jogging now and what we have seen with that. So we're trying to partner with some sororities too to make sure that it's accessible for everybody. But anyway, that's a very long-winded way of saying that my favorite product that we have this collection is the safety kit just because I feel like everybody can have it in their glove box, their purse, their house, or it's a great gift and something that people may not buy for themselves all the time and just you know extra precautions to keep safe. We also will be donating a portion of all the proceeds not only just the

kit but the whole collection to the Child Rescue Coalition which is a charity that we work very closely with and it helps ensure child safety and not only just the kit but the whole collection to the Child Rescue Coalition, which is a charity that we work very closely with that helps ensure child safety and puts protections in place for predators who are using different technologies and the internet to prey on children. So anyways, sorry for the long-winded intro, but definitely check that out. It's all at AnnieElyse.com. Now let's get into the cases we're talking about today. There's one particular case that so many of you have been messaging me about and I didn't really quite understand it at first because I thought I was seeing

double but it seems like that really is unfortunately the case and it's about the driver who killed the hockey player and the hockey player's brother. So brothers and former Boston College hockey players, Johnny and Matthew Goudreau, were killed in a biking accident back on Thursday, August 29th. Johnny was only 31 years old and Matthew was only 29 years old. Johnny was a star hockey player for Boston College from 2011 to 2014. He even won multiple awards. He also won a national title back in 2012. And he earned the nickname through this, Johnny Hockey. Matthew also played for Boston College, but from years 2013 to 2017. He was also just an extremely, extremely talented player.

So Johnny went on to play in the NHL after college, and he was playing for the Columbus Blue Jackets at the time of his death. Now Matthew was playing in the minor leagues and was also a coach for a high school hockey team. So the details about this tragedy are really heartbreaking because the two brothers were visiting Oldman's townships in New Jersey for their sister's wedding when all of this went down. Can you even imagine? The wedding was scheduled for August 30th, the very next day. It's just so sad. These two brothers were groomsmen

in their sister's wedding. They died, or I should say they were killed the night before. They were out riding their bikes around 8 p.m. when a driver just attempted to speed up, pass another car, and ended up hitting these two brothers on their bikes. It's so devastating. Now, it's suspected that the driver, Sean M. Higgins, was under the

influence of alcohol when this crash occurred. He was driving a Jeep Grand Cherokee and he was behind this slow-moving sedan and SUV and then was trying to kind of creep up and past them. Meanwhile, as I said, Johnny and Matthew were biking just up the road. The road was a two-lane road, so the SUV was in the right lane. He was trying to kind of swerve past, go beyond it. So when the cars were approaching the two boys on the bikes, the SUV moved over to give these men some space, as kind drivers do. However, Sean Higgins took this opportunity to try to go around the SUV in the right lane.

But instead, he hit Matthew and Johnny. A rate or black SUV hatchback driving erratically, it was swerving around people and driving on the shoulder. At the crime scene, Sean told responding officers that he had had about five or six beers in total before then driving that night. He also failed a field sobriety test. So definitely was not in any condition to be driving at all.

He appeared in court for the first time on August 30th, and you can hear some of the footage here. I'll be killed. You're charged now with two counts of second degree vehicular homicide. Both of those charges are punishable by a maximum 10 years in New Jersey State Prison. Do you understand that those are the charges to bring you before this court and those are the potential penalties that you face?

Yes, Your Honor. So Mr. Higgins, your detention hearing is going to come back before this court on September the 5th. It'll be brought back to court for a hearing on that day. In the meantime, between now and your court date on Thursday, the state must turn over to your attorney discovery. That's any and all reports or documents

in the state's possession, which are relevant to their application to detain you, as well as any and all exculpatory evidence must be turned over to your attorney between now and the hearing on the 5th. Understood. At this time, we're gonna excuse you from court today. We'll see you back in court on Thursday. So I'm here until Thursday?

Yes, sir. Once the state files a motion for your pretrial detention, the statutes and court rules require me to hold you over for a minimum 72 hours before you're hearing. The cost, we have a weekend and we have a Monday holiday. 72 hours becomes Thursday. Any other questions?

No, that's time, right? All right, thank you, Mr. Higgins. You are excused for today. It's just so sad and we talk about senseless crimes all the time. And I understand that this was an accident, but it's just a reminder. Never get behind the wheel when you're drinking. Get an Uber or just don't drink if you know you're going to have to be driving. Because now these two young men who were just starting off in life and had these great careers ahead of them who were going to be groomsmen in their sister's wedding the very next day

were just killed senselessly because somebody wanted to get behind the wheel after having a few beers. It's incredibly heartbreaking. People who have spoken out since this tragedy have just reinforced that these guys were the absolute nicest guys that you would ever meet. That they were just so kind, of course so talented, and it's not just senseless because they were killed at such a young age, but Johnny was married and had a two-year-old daughter and also a seven-month-old son. Matthew also was married and his wife is currently pregnant with their first child. Can you even imagine the devastation from all of these families? It really does break my heart. Now, not that that's a good segue, but there is another case having to do with children that I want to talk with

you about, and this is gonna take me a minute guys because I can't imagine, I cannot fathom being these children in this house. So in New Market, Maryland, just a couple days ago on Sunday 25th, dozens of shots, you heard that right, dozens guys, dozens of shots were fired into the home of 33 year old Crimea Baker and 34 year old Sean Lang. The shooting happened at about 1 30 a.m. and it's suspected that this couple, that they were shot about 42 times. Now they weren't the only ones home when this horrific shooting took place. There were four children in the house.

They were present when this shooting occurred. While it was all going down, they hid inside a closet during the entire thing, which can you even imagine how scared they must have been. They then emerged from the closet about six hours later once they finally felt that it was safe, but they were hiding, probably scared for their own lives. Also hearing these two adults, their parents being murdered in this house, 42 shots. Can you imagine? The nine-year-old is the one who discovered Sean andia dead in their bedroom. So then the children called 911 at about 730 a.m. So on Sunday morning at 7 a.m. deputies responded to a call for a shooting at the home on Mandelong

Court. When they arrived, they found Kermia Baker and Sean Sean Lang deceased shot to death in the bed. Preliminary investigation indicates that the shooting occurred about 1 30 a.m. So right now the detectives believe the victims were living together at the time of the shooting. Baker is the mother of all four Children found inside the home. Mr Lang is the father of one of the Children. Our detectives are now investigating this as a double murder. At this time, there is no indication that this was a random killing, and we don't believe there's any threat to the community at large.

This was clearly a rage killing by an angry and rage person. There were 42 rounds fired at or into the victims of close range. 42 40 caliber shell casings were recovered in the bedroom. We're in the early stages of the investigation. the no reason to believe that there's any further risk to the public or any threat to the public at large. And I want to assure the public today that we're doing everything we can. We have every available investigator, every agency resource we're going to put into this until the person or person's responsible or identified, arrested, and brought to justice. The police have stated that the couple's deaths were not a murder-suicide as originally thought by some of the people out there.

There were some media outlets that were saying that that's what this appeared to be, but they quickly shut that down and said, no, that's not the case. But the investigators do think that the couple knew the killer. However, they said they don't have any suspects at this time, which is so scary. And I would imagine even if they do, they're probably keeping that information close to the best because they don't want to spook anybody. They don't want to jeopardize the investigation. But it's just a really scary thought, especially if you think that if they didn't know that the children were home and if they knew that they were hiding and now all these news reports

are coming out and the children are the ones who call 911, not that they would necessarily go and kill children until, you know, finish the job. but if they're worried that they'll be identified, who knows what could happen? I feel like it's incredibly risky for these children, right? Many people close to the couple believe that it is her ex-husband David Turner, that he's the one responsible for these horrific murders. David is the father to Crimea's three older children and there is also kind of a little bit of a history of different court filings and different restraining orders between the two of them. Back in 2018 she even made a GoFundMe asking

for legal support because David essentially kidnapped the children. He along with his mother took the children and hid them from her for an unknown amount of time. In the GoFundMe description she stated that she was a domestic violent survivor as well. She also said that she and her children endured physical, emotional abuse at the hands of David and that it was just a horrible, horrible situation to be living in. Now David allegedly threatened her with weapons, broke into her home, and because of this she had to move frequently, all to try to get away from him. There's also very little information

about David online. however, some people believe that it's because he works in IT and that he would essentially know how to kind of, you know, erase himself from the internet, hide different details about himself, and appear almost as a ghost online. However, despite the speculation that David is the one behind all of this, investigators stated that they interviewed David. He currently lives in Miami and apparently he gave them an alibi which the investigators are currently looking into. That doesn't mean that he

couldn't have hired somebody to do that obviously, but he apparently does have an alibi. He was in Miami and they're looking into it. Now as far as any other suspects or motive, there doesn't seem to be one. These two people seemed like upstanding citizens. They were, you know, great in the community. They were hard workers. Kermia has a bachelor's degree in psychology. She also has a master's degree in applied behavioral analysis. She operated her own business called Children Matter First, which helped individuals on the autism spectrum and anyone else who had developmental disabilities or delays. Sean also used to work in the military as a chef and they were both just good people by all accounts, all of their friends and families.

So that's why they're suggesting that the ex is the only one who could have done this. Now, is that enough to draw suspicion? Yes. Is it enough for guilt? Certainly not. So we're just going to have to wait and see. But my heart just breaks for these children and I can't even imagine the amount of trauma that stems from this, what kind of therapy they're going to have to go into, and hopefully they're now with a good family member who can take care of them. So I mentioned at the top of this episode that there seems to be a serial killer potentially looming in New York, which is horrifying, right? I mean, I feel like lately we've been

hearing about serial killers in a lot of different states, whether it's like, what, it was like Idaho, Oregon, Texas at one point. We of course know there was the Long Island serial killer in New York, but there is now apparently possibly another one on the loose. And the reason why is because there have been bones and bodies found in Brooklyn, which that just gives me the chills. I used to live in Brooklyn for many, many years and I can't even imagine. So let me break it down for you on like how we got to this point. On Saturday, August 31st, bone fragments were discovered along the shore of Brooklyn Bridge Park. And it was the third time that month that bones were found in this area. On August 19th, shortly before 9 a.m., a human skull and other bones were found near

Jane's Carousel in Brooklyn Bridge Park. Now, Jane's Carousel, I know you've seen it in the movies. It's right there in Dumbo. That's the specific area, Dumbo, which what was the acronym for that? It's like directly underneath the Manhattan Bridge overpass. I think that's what it stands for. But you've seen it in movies. It's the carousel that's kind of enclosed in glass. It's right there on the water line. It's beautiful. And what's crazy to me is it's a huge, huge, huge tourist attraction. So the fact that there was just bones and a human skull found right there is so unnerving. Fun fact, not so fun fact, because I know we're talking about this, but like fun fact, that's actually where my water broke with my first son. I like went for a

walk and I'm standing right at Jane's carousel and my water broke. But it's just, it's always a heavily populated area. So the thought that this could be a potential dump site is absolutely crazy. Then not only just where those found, but then two days later, even more bones were found in that exact same area. And that's not the only weird thing that's happening in Brooklyn. Back on June 16, 2023, police found the body of 27-year-old Carl Clemente floating in Newton Creek. This is about five miles away from where these bones were found near the Brooklyn Bridge at Jane's Carousel. Carl had gone missing five days earlier after he didn't get into a party at this club called The Mirage. Carl was turned away from

this party because he was already too drunk to be let inside, and then after his body was found, surveillance footage from the area that was recovered shows Carl running down the streets before he eventually disappeared. His family believes that somebody must have actually been chasing him in this footage. His official cause of death, though, was ruled as drowning. But then, on July 29th, 2023, so not very long after this, a little over a month after everything went down with Carl, 27-year-old John Kastick also disappeared after leaving the Mirage Club. He left around 3 a.m. after telling his friends that he didn't feel well. Security footage from that area shows

John walking down the street, behaving normally like normal people do when they're walking. He seemed very calm, but then his body was found three days later, right near the same area where Carl's body was also found. The medical examiner confirmed, just like Carl, that John had drowned. However, they listed his manner of death as undetermined. Now, as if that wasn't enough to raise suspicion, we always say where there's smoke, there's fire. After these bodies were discovered, an anonymous person came forward on social media saying that they were strangled by a man near the Mirage Club as well. Luckily, an Uber driver saw what was going on though and stopped and then the people inside the car saved this potential future victim.

But there's more. A police report from July of last year states that a doctor from Connecticut claims that he was kidnapped too after leaving the Mirage. This was back on July 21, 2023. So right in line when everything went down with Carl and when everything went down with John. It was the same month within weeks of each other. He states that the person who kidnapped him was pretending to be a taxi driver. Apparently this taxi driver, this fake taxi driver, told this doctor that he had quote put people in body bags before. He drove the doctor around, forced him to spend almost six grand, and then returned the man to the hospital that he worked at in Connecticut. But that's not all guys, because almost a year later on July 30th 2024, a third man was found dead in this

creek. This person was 30 year old Demani Alexander. And if you're wondering, oh well, did he go to the Mirage too? No. But on July 28th, Demani went to a Tiki Disco at the Knockdown Center, which is an event venue about five minutes away from the Mirage. It's unknown what happened to him between July 28th and July 30th, but then we know his body was found. Now many people are denying that the deaths of these three men and the bones that were found are related, but the area near the mirage and the knockdown center, it's dark. It's also a little bit sketchy. So many people think that these deaths could just be accidents, just drunk men leaving a club late at night and then accidentally falling into the water nearby.

We saw something very similar recently with Riley Strain in Nashville, even though some people believe there was foul play, but it appeared he had been over served. He was walking home and fell into the water, so people are suggesting that maybe it's not foul play and that's exactly what's happening here. I don't know though. Is there a tie to the bones? Possibly. People are suggesting that maybe it's not foul play and that's exactly what's happening here. I don't know though. Is there a tie to the bones? Possibly. People are suggesting there could be a serial killer on the loose. However, the police have said that they don't think that the deaths are related. They also are bolstering the theory and the idea that this could be accidental

because they are saying that there's insufficient safety measures in the area. A spokesperson for the NYPD told the Independent, which is a news outlet, quote, when establishments serving liquor are located near a body of water, the risk of tragedy increases, as we've unfortunately witnessed. Which, yes, is true. But are there too many red flags here? I don't know. You tell me what you think. And also, what about all of the bones that were found? Are those related or not? Even if they're not related, even if all of the deaths by the creek and by the mirage are accidental because it's people who have been over-served and they fall into the creek,

what's with the bones? What's with the skull? What's with the dump site by Jane's Carousel? That's unnerving in itself, right? Not that they have to be tied together, but something feels weird. So I guess we're just gonna have to watch and see, but it is making a lot of people question if there is a potential serial killer on the loose. If you guys have listened to the show before, you've probably heard me rave about being Dream. Like a lot of people, I used to struggle with poor sleep and always feeling tired throughout the day, and I never realized how much it was affecting my life until I was finally able to start getting amazing sleep, all thanks to Beam, which is why I am super excited to announce that I have officially partnered with them to create an exclusive flavor of their best-selling

sleep blend. It pairs two of my favorite flavors together, creamy caramel and salted chocolate. My new salty chocolate caramel dream blend is available now in limited quantities exclusively to my listeners with a very special discount for you guys through my link, so keep listening. Now dream is a game changer. It seriously is such an incredibly delicious way to improve your sleep and your next day energy. And unlike prescriptions and other sleep supplements, Beam uses all natural ingredients that don't cause any next day grogginess or anything like those other sleep aids do. Dream contains a powerful all natural blend of reishi, magnesium, L-theanine, melatonin,

all to help you get a great night of sleep and a waking up as a morning person. And let's talk about the flavor, it is delicious. It's like the perfect guilt-free cup of sweet, meat, salty, hot cocoa, and it's just 15 calories and no added sugar. But remember, there's only a limited supply of my exclusive flavor so don't wait. And today I've got a very special offer for my listeners. My limited edition flavor salty chocolate

caramel dream is almost sold out so grab it while you can. Just head to shopbeam.com slash Annie Elise where you'll get 40% off your first order with code Annie Elise. That's shop B E A M.com slash Annie Elise and use code ANNIEELICE for up to 40% off. In another case that is breaking that I've seen some requests coming in for, we don't have a ton of information, but I do want to touch on it. And it's a really, really bad story. It happened just a few days ago. On Sunday, September 1st, this Olympic distance runner named Rebecca was actually set on fire at her home in western Kenya by her boyfriend Dixon. Witnesses apparently heard the couple arguing earlier in the day and they were arguing about Rebecca's home and the land that she owned apparently. I don't know what the details of the argument were though, but then later

witnesses saw Dixon return around 2 p.m. with a can of gasoline. Dixon poured the gasoline all over Rebecca, and then he set her on fire. Thankfully, the witnesses jumped in and started extinguishing the flames before they called 911 to get the emergency services out there. So Rebecca is currently alive, but she is in critical condition. 75% of her body is covered in severe burns. The boyfriend Dixon was burned as well so he's also receiving care. And what's interesting is we have seen different domestic violence relationships and abuse where buyer does seem to be a method for them where they do actually like set their partner on

fire. Rebecca had recently competed in the Paris Olympics where she placed 44th in the marathon. She had also recently purchased her home because it had ample land which allowed her to train on it. It was close to the region's best training facilities and so it was going to be a step forward in her career and help her continue to focus on that. However, now what does that look like? She has 75% of her body that is covered in severe burns. I hope that she's able to make a recovery but I don't even know what that does to your joints

and your muscles. And like I said, there's not a lot of information. We're getting more. So hopefully this a-hole is held accountable, but like how awful is that? Speaking of things that went on this weekend over Labor Day, two mass shootings occurred on Labor Day, one in Chicago and the other in New York.

In Chicago, four people were fatally shot while they Chicago and the other in New York. In Chicago, four people were fatally shot while they were riding the train that Monday morning. And in a very unnerving detail, all four people appeared to be asleep before they were attacked. Police received calls about the shooting around 530 a.m. and three of the victims ended up being pronounced dead at the scene. The fourth later died at the University Medical Center in Loyola. The identities of the victims have yet to be released. However, a suspect was taken into custody and they had a weapon that was recovered as well. Police found the suspect

after viewing security footage from the train and noticing a passenger who looked like the person that was in the video that they saw too, and so then they apprehended them. But then, sidestepping over to New York, around 1.45 in the afternoon on Monday, five people were shot after a gunman opened fire into a large crowd of people who were just out celebrating at the West Indian American Day celebration in Manhattan. The victims were 25 year old Denzel Chan who was shot in the stomach and unfortunately later died. Also a 69 year old woman was shot in the stomach and unfortunately later died. Also a 69-year-old woman was shot in the back. A 64-year-old man was shot in the arm. A 26-year-old man was shot in the head. And a 16-year-old

boy was shot in the arm as well. Now unfortunately, a suspect has not been arrested yet, but investigators have stated that they are looking for a man in his 20s who appears to be six feet tall and was wearing a paint-stained brown shirt, also a black bandana. Investigators are also looking into whether or not this crime was somehow gang-related. Now this next case I saw online and it fascinated me because I feel like we talk a lot about sugar daddy crimes, right? Sugar daddy crimes, sugar baby crimes, things that are financially motivated, sexually motivated. And that appears to be what this is. There's still more details coming out. It's breaking. That's why it's in. Hello. That's why it's in headline highlights this week. But it's one that I'm going to follow closely because it has to do with a dead college nursing student and a Texas sugar dad.

So let me rewind a little bit. On Monday, August 26th, a 21-year-old nursing student named Muna Pandy was found dead in her Houston apartment. Her friend discovered her body around 5.45 p.m. She was in her bed with multiple gunshot wounds to her body and also a single gunshot wound to her head. The apartment complex had received an anonymous call about a dead body inside her apartment, and the staff ended up after

receiving this call, they called 911 shortly after. So after the Houston police arrived, they ended up finding security footage of a man pointing a gun directly at Muna, then forcing her into her apartment. They arrived at her apartment around 8 40 pm and she was holding a shoe box, also a shopping bag, a black jacket, and a purse. This man was holding only a black pistol though. So in this video, this man is telling her to open the door. He's repeating it multiple times. She asks him like, okay, well what are you going to do? But then he just starts shaking his gun and tells her again, open the door, open the door. He then pushed her inside the apartment and locked the door behind him. The man is seen on footage leaving the apartment about an hour later, and a neighbor said that they heard very loud

thumping coming from the apartment between 8 30 and 9 p.m. So the police asked the public to help identify this man, and it was later determined to be a 51-year-old man named Bobby Shaw. Now the manager at a restaurant where Muna used to work said that Bobby was a regular customer, that he came in all the time and that he often spoke with Muna. So it's believed that the two of them knew each other. But an anonymous person also called the police after seeing this in the news and said that she met Bobby on a sugar daddy website back in 2012. She said that she instantly recognized Bobby from that security footage. Now right now, there's no indication that Moona's murder had any ties to that website

or that he was her sugar daddy or anything like that, but they're looking into that to see if that could be a possible motivator. So a capital murder charge was filed against Bobby and he was arrested on Wednesday, August 28th during a traffic stop. He also was denied bond. Now as for Moona, she was attending Houston Community College, and she recently moved to the area from Nepal.

A GoFundMe has also been started to help Moona's mom, who is her only family member, so that she can fly from Nepal to Texas to help with the burial costs, the funeral costs, all of that. So I will leave that linked in the description of this episode. So that's what we have this week for headline highlights. If you feel like you need another true crime fix, going into your weekend tomorrow as a

reminder, we also have ad-free bonus episodes that release every single Friday. The one we're releasing tomorrow is extremely heinous. It's about family murder and it's giving Menendez brothers but it's not that and it's just horrible but luckily there was CCTV footage it caught everything so anyways we're gonna be talking about that tomorrow. Other than that tickets are almost gone for the live tour so if you do want to see one of our deep dive episodes in person make sure to go to the events page at AnnieElite.com grab those tickets before they're. And if you didn't hear this Monday's episode, go back.

I know it was a holiday, so a lot of people might have been busy at the beach, enjoying time away and not focusing on true crime, just trying to get your mental health right. But we released an episode on Monday all about the Scott Peterson case into the two new docu-series that are advocating for his innocence.

The other one that is trying to prove his guilt. I had Nancy Grace on as a guest. She has been covering the Scott Peterson case literally for two decades. She's known for a lot of her hot takes, but she does know the case inside out. So I had her on and we talked through it because it's interesting. Now with the Peacock documentary that is advocating for his innocence and bringing up some questions of reasonable doubt, there are a lot of people in the public who think that there might be enough to warrant an appeal of some sort, a new trial.

Certainly if the duct tape that's being tested comes back with somebody else's DNA. So I wanted Nancy on to kind of just ask her those questions about, okay, well, what about this that people are suggesting proves his innocence? What about this? And we talked through everything. So if you didn't listen to that or if you missed it, you can go, what about this that people are suggesting proves as innocence? What about this? And we talk through everything. So if you didn't listen to that or if you missed it, you can go back and listen to that. That is in the feed. Other than that, I hope you guys are staying safe, having a good week, and I will be back

on the mic with you either tomorrow for the bonus episode, which you can get access to through Apple on Apple podcasts, or I will be with you first thing Monday morning with an all new deep dive case. Thank you guys so much for tuning in. Until the next one, please stay safe, be nice, don't kill people, don't join any cults and just take care of yourselves. All right. I'll talk with you guys again soon.

Bye. you