SERIALously - 304: DISTURBING: 1000+ Unsealed Pages Expose Terrifying New Details in Idaho Murders

Starting point is 00:00:00 We're taking a closer look at the case of four University of Idaho students who were killed in their sleep. We're learning new details about the investigation from hundreds of pages of Moscow police reports. The past hours after Coburger's multiple life sentences were made official, investigators release a mountain of information, new insight into how the atrocity played out and what they learned about Coburger's movements. There are hundreds of pages of records. Koberger is now just a number at Idaho's maximum security. institution. We are here to prove to the world that you pick the wrong families. Due to the killer's incompetence now stands before the world and this court unmasked. Hey, true crime

Starting point is 00:00:47 besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of serialistly. Hey everybody. Welcome back to an all new episode of serialously with me, Annie Elise. And today we are going to go through all of the updates together of what's coming out with the Idaho case. As you know, we are fresh off of the sentencing that just happened recently. There has been a huge document dump where A lot of more details and information has been released regarding this case. We are finding out new details about the crime scene, new details in the days and weeks leading up to the murders. There's just a lot of information to go over. And it's been kind of trickling in, as I said, since the sentencing. But I've wanted to wait to do this update video because I wanted to just get all the

Starting point is 00:01:53 information that we possibly could. And it's been coming in daily. So now we're at a point where so much has. is coming through that I feel like, okay, let's give like the full rundown of everything. We're going to go item by item, line by line, and just talk through it and see what we can make sense of, even though that sounds so stupid because it's like, how do you even make sense of something like this, right? Now, just to give a little bit of backstory for the sentencing, I'm sure most of you are up to speed, so I won't spend too much time on that. But Brian

Starting point is 00:02:24 Coburger, he was the accused quadruple murderer of the Idaho four case. He was the accused quadruple murderer of the Idaho 4 case, he was sentenced to four consecutive life sentences. He also was given an additional 10 years for the burglary charges, and he'll be spending the rest of his life in prison. However, it was obviously a very hot topic, right? Because Brian ended up taking a plea deal, which he would plead guilty in exchange for the death penalty being removed. And while some families involved in this case felt like that was okay and at least they didn't need to go through a trial and they could just put this behind them and try to move forward. A lot of other families have been very outspoken that they do not agree with this plea deal,

Starting point is 00:03:03 that they wanted their day in court, they wanted to go to trial, they wanted him to be put on blast for everything he did and receive some sort of, I don't even want to say closure, but some sort of peace that way. So it's been a very hot topic for the last several weeks. And because of this, at the sentencing, when a lot of these victims' families have the opportunity to read their victim impact statements, think they were kind of indicative of their frustration with the lack of a trial, not for everyone, but for some of them. And for those, I'm not going to, again, repeat myself a ton, but for those who

Starting point is 00:03:38 didn't follow the sentencing or maybe want more of like an insight into that, we did have our correspondent in the courtroom where she was breaking down the behavior, the mannerisms, the, um, what Brian was doing, how even below the waist, he was like turning in his chair, how he was so angry when Steve Consolves was speaking, who's Kaylee's dad, but then he was very uncomfortable when any female was speaking. And so she breaks it all down, which I also will just say, I think to me, we've all been long suspecting, or at least I've been long suspecting, that Brian Coburger is an in-cell, which stands for involuntarily celibate. And I think that type of behavior and his response during the sentencing to the different genders kind of ties

Starting point is 00:04:20 directly back to that. Somebody who hates women is uncomfortable around women doesn't know how to act, but then hates men because the man is everything they will never be, everything they're not. They get everything that Brian will never get. And so I just thought that that was really interesting. And that whole breakdown from Madison is on headline highlights from, gosh, from two weeks ago now. So you can go back and listen to that and hear her first hand account. But just as a high level with the sentencing, it was of course very powerful. Nobody was really expecting Kaylee's father, Steve, to even speak and give a victim impact statement because he had been so outspoken about not agreeing with this outcome. But he did speak.

Starting point is 00:05:01 And it was a very powerful move because right when he approached the podium, he turned it directly to Brian Coburger so that Brian had to look at him. And Brian's face, it was unnerving. He was staring very intently at Steve. His brows had, you know, dropped down and he wasn't breaking eye contact and it seemed as though he was the one angry at Steve, which can't like, can you even believe that? A lot of Sierra killers go down and all we remember is they're the serial killer's name and not the victims. And maybe we can set a new tone where we focus on the victims and we don't even name the person

Starting point is 00:05:38 that does this because I think they ignore and morality and the fame that they get is not helping us at all. Yeah. I'll give you a glimpse a little bit behind the same. scenes. That podium literally said, do not move. It had it right on there. But some of the other victims' families were so scared that they were going to be, like, arrested or they were going to get in trouble if their statements weren't perfect. And I said, I'll go first, even though I wanted to go last. I said, I will go first. And if I don't get arrested, none of you guys have

Starting point is 00:06:09 anything to worry about. So I went in there, turned that podium. I wanted to face him. I wanted to set a tone of what I think a courtroom should look like. A courtroom should be about protecting the victims and not embolding, like, the person who did this. I mean, how many times did we hear that he was, you know, respectful and he didn't even need to stand for saying that, you know, the victims that he killed? I wanted to change that tone a bit. We kind of all worked on our statements together. We even worked with some of the other families on their statements. We're a family of doers.

Starting point is 00:06:50 We're families that were prepared for this. Yeah, we were ready. We were ready. And we've been victimized by the court system itself. So it was finally our chance to be like, this is how we court's correct. This is how we get in here and we let people know. This is what a Gonzolvis is. This is what a G is.

Starting point is 00:07:13 And it's not sitting here begging this guy and keep embolding him and keep putting him in positions of power. He was able to dictate the whole process. But that day was our chance to say, you know what? You're not control anymore. We are. I love the contrast in different families and the way that they can grieve differently. And I think it gives a full breath of what it looks like to be a victim and to go through this process. For me, I've always said it would be a lot more difficult if he came forward and just said,

Starting point is 00:07:45 I did this and I need to be forgiven. I believe in Jesus Christ, our Lord, our Savior. So if he said that, that would put me in a paradox to where I would have to like, I'd have to forgive him. So that would be a lot more difficult. But he's never really taken accountability. He's never shown any remorse. So I'm not there yet.

Starting point is 00:08:07 Then Kaylee's sister Olivia gave a very, very impactful statement. And I know that's probably gone viral, but I'm going to play it for you a little bit here. And it was just incredibly moving. My name is Olivia, and I'm the big sister of Kaylee Gonzalez, and I was blessed to love Madison Mogan as a sister too. I'm not here today to speak in grief. I'm here to speak in truth. Because the truth is, my sister Kaylee and her best friend, Maddie, were not yours

Starting point is 00:08:36 to take. They were not yours to study, to stalk, or to silence. They were two pieces of a whole, the perfect yin and yang. They are everything that you could never be. Loved, accepted, vibrant, accomplished, brave, and powerful. Because the truth about Kaylee and Maddie, they would have been kind to you. If you would approach them in their everyday lives, they would have given you directions, thanked you for the compliment, or awkwardly giggled to make your own words less uncomfortable for you. In a world that rejected you, they would have shown mercy. I won't stand here and give you what you want. I won't offer you tears. I won't offer you trembling. Disappointments like you thrive on pain, on fear and on the illusion of power.

Starting point is 00:09:30 and I won't feed your beast. Instead, I will call you what you are. Sociopath, psychopath, murderer. I will ask the questions that reverberate violently in my own head so loudly that I can't think straight most any day. Some of these might be familiar, so sit up straight when I talk to you. How was your life?

Starting point is 00:10:00 right before you murdered my sisters. Did you prepare for the crime before leaving your apartment? Please detail what you were thinking and feeling at this time. Why did you choose my sisters? Before making your move, did you approach my sisters? Detail what you were thinking and feeling. Before leaving their home, is there anything else you did? How does it feel to know the only thing

Starting point is 00:10:30 you failed more miserably at than being a murderer is trying to be a rapper. Did you recently start shaving or manually pulling out your eyebrows? Why November 13th? Did you truly think your Amazon purchase was untraceable because you used a gift card? How do you find it enjoyable to stargaze with such a severe case of visual snow? where is the murder weapon the clothes you wore that night what did you bring into the house with you what was the second weapon you used on cayley what were cayley's last words please describe in detail the level of anxiety you must have felt when you heard the bear cat pull up to your family home

Starting point is 00:11:25 on December 30th, 2022. Which do you regret more? Returning to the crime scene five hours later, or never, ever, going back to Moscow, not even once, after stalking them there for months. If you were really smart, do you think you'd be here right now?

Starting point is 00:11:50 What's it like needing this much attention just to feel real? You're terrified of being ordinary, aren't you? Do you feel anything at all? Or are you exactly what you always feared? Nothing. If you're so powerful, then why are you still hiding, defendant? You see, I'm here today as me.

Starting point is 00:12:18 But who are you? Let's try to take off your mask and see. You didn't win. You just exposed yourself as the coward you are. You're a delusional, pathetic, hypochondriac loser, who thought you were so much smarter than everybody else. Constantly scolding, turning your nose up to grammar mistakes, nitpicking and criticizing others.

Starting point is 00:12:44 You wanted so badly to be different, to be special, to be better, to be deep, to be mysterious. You found yourself thinking you were better. than everyone else, and you thought you could figure out the human psyche and see through it, all while tweaked out on heroin. Lurking in the shadows made you feel powerful because no one ever paid you any attention in the light. You thought you were exceptional, all because of a grade on a paper. You thought you were elite because your online IQ test from 2010 told you so. All of that effort just to seem important. It's desperate. There is a name for your

Starting point is 00:13:24 condition though your inflated ego just didn't allow you to see it wannabe you act like no one could ever understand your mind but the truth is you're basic you're a textbook case of insecurity disguised as control your patterns are predictable your motives are shallow you are not profound you're pathetic you aren't special or deep not mysterious or exceptional don't ever get it twisted again no one is scared of you today no one is intimidated by you no one is impressed by you no one thinks that you are important you orchestrated this like you thought you were God now look at you begging a courtroom for scraps you spent months preparing and still all it

Starting point is 00:14:16 took was my sister and a sheath you work so hard to seem dangerous but real control doesn't have to prove itself. The truth is, the scariest part about you is how painfully average you turned out to be. The truth is, you're as dumb as they come. Stupid, clumsy, slow, sloppy, weak, dirty. Let me be very clear. Don't ever try to convince yourself you mattered just because someone finally said your name out loud. I see through you. You want the truth? Here's the one you'll hate the most. If you hadn't attacked them in their sleep in the middle of the night like a pedophile, Kaylee would have kicked your fucking ass. Thank you. Thank you. And I'll just say all of the statements were fantastic. They were emotional. They were honest. They were

Starting point is 00:15:16 raw, they were moving. But there were some statements where you could tell that they were crafted in a way to get under Brian Coburger's skin, whether it was Olivia's statement and telling him how he's weak, how he's a loser, how he's sloppy and dirty, because we know he's like obsessed with wanting to be clean. Or Kaylee's younger sister who said, you know, you're used to getting A's in high school and college, now you're going to be getting the big D's in prison. Because there was so much intention behind hurting Brian in some of these statements. It almost kind of felt like the roast of Brian Coburger a little bit. I was fueled by seeing the rage on his face. I was prepared to be arrested that day. Really? Really. No, I'm not joking. I think that every single one of us were.

Starting point is 00:16:03 Man, was he mad? That was obviously a big point of why I did what I did to make him feel small because he is. It actually makes me really emotional. I got up there knowing that my speech wasn't to Kaylee and Maddie. It was for them. I mean, I stalked the stalker. I found everything that I could from him online from the beginning of time to now.

Starting point is 00:16:28 It fueled me to know that I got too pegged. I had one shot at it and I was going to make the most of it. So I wanted to maintain that eye contact as much. much as I possibly could. And when I tell you, there's not a human there. I'm not scared of this individual. I'm not intimidated by him. Truly, I'm not. But when I tell you, there's a primal sense of alarms. Like, my body was telling me, run, get out. This is a threat. The best description I can give you is like if I had come face to face with an alien because back behind there, there's no human being. There's no humanity. But for me, it was just one-on-one. And I was ready

Starting point is 00:17:24 to stand on business, right? Like I was there. There was nothing that was going to make me back down from that moment. And all I felt was rage. Almost from the very, very beginning, all I felt was at one point in my speech when I'm speaking more to how I'm trying to say this was an impact statement. I'm more so directed towards the judge and I turn my body in that direction. And I could feel that specific stare the entire time. It was unrelenting. And all I remember feeling really was like, this guy's pissed. My whole purpose of that speech was taking back this power

Starting point is 00:18:11 and giving it back to Kaylee and Maddie. Zana and Ethan as well. But for me and my personal connection to Kaylee and Maddie as my sisters, I wanted to give them the hero moment that I truly feel like they deserve. Throughout this whole process, he has controlled so much of the narrative.

Starting point is 00:18:29 And it's been focused around him, his name, his actions. And I understand it. But in my shoes, it pisses me off at times because you see Idaho students, University of Idaho students, his name victims, or just the headline of his name. And it's so frustrating because it's like they have names. Kayla Gonzalez, Madison Mogan, Zana Cronodal, Ethan Chapin. Say it. You know, you take the time to say his name. Say theirs.

Starting point is 00:19:00 I understand it's four. I understand it takes a second. But you owe them that. So for me, it was about taking back that control from him, best that I could, getting under his skin as best as I psychologically could with my limited understanding of what he is and giving it back to the victims the best that I could. So sentencing happened and after that, as we know, the gag order was lifted. And with this, what that means is not only that people who were involved in the case can now

Starting point is 00:19:32 speak, but certain documents and certain photographs and information will start to be released. And although we have seen a big document dump, and that's what we're going to talk a lot about today too, plus some other stuff that just recently came out, there still will be more to come over the next few weeks and months. So don't be surprised if we end up putting out another update video because it's just slowly now coming to the surface. It's been three years, right? Three years of waiting, of wanting information. And now that the order has been lifted, some of that information is going to start surfacing again. So let me start with the police reports. And I'm going to, I just want to go item by item with you and kind of read off what the big takeaways were

Starting point is 00:20:16 in them so that you hear the same information and receive the same information that I did. So when officers entered the King Road House, they found Gayley Consolvis and Maddie Mogan in the same bed. Kaylee was on the left side and she was severely injured so much so that she was unrecognizable. Her face had been stabbed repeatedly and her, quote, basic facial structure was unrecognizable. One officer even said, quote, I was unable to comprehend exactly what I was looking at while trying to also discern the nature of the injuries. And I have to say this is very important here because there was discussion of a second weapon, right? And while it hasn't been confirmed what that weapon was, we will talk about it here in a bit. But Brian Coburger did reportedly have tactical gloves. And for those who are

Starting point is 00:21:05 unfamiliar with tactical gloves, it's kind of like, they're just like high, high quality, very durable gloves where it would be difficult to penetrate a blade through them. But also the more important part is that on the top side of the gloves, on the top of your hand and your knuckles, there's this, I don't know if it's like plastic or if it's like super dense, hardened rubber. but basically like a shell that goes over your knuckles and the top of your hand, kind of like brass knuckles in a way. So it's been reported that he was possibly wearing those at the time of this and that that's what caused Kaylee's facial injuries because he was repeatedly hitting her.

Starting point is 00:21:42 Now, is that because he dropped the knife because there was so much blood that it slipped out and that's also when he dropped the sheath? So at that point, he's just wailing on her because she's fighting back. or were any of those attack done post-mortem or pre-mortem, but like just out of anger in addition to the stabbings? Part of me thinks, and this is just my opinion for a second here, guys, part of me thinks that we know he left the sheath behind by accident. So I think he lost control in that moment. We know he probably wasn't expecting Kaylee either, right? So I believe he lost control, may have even dropped the knife and that that's why then she received such a beating because that was his second line of a weapon.

Starting point is 00:22:22 you know, to something to use. Then when he's trying to get the hell out of there, he picks up the knife wherever it is, forgets the sheath because it's the chaos in the moment. And then he's, of course, stunned to see Zana still awake, caught by surprise from her. And then we know she had the majority of the stab wounds, which I know I'm getting ahead of myself.

Starting point is 00:22:41 But just once again, an unforeseen variable that caught him off guard and basically foiled his entire plan. okay so you guys know i am always trying to increase my sleep quality not just my sleep quality but my sleep comfort i want to feel like i'm like sleeping and live in the life of luxury and like the comfiest bed ever and i've got my mattress game on point you guys know that but i have been like cycling through trying all the different kinds of beddings trying to find the exact sheets that i love and i need to tell you about something that has totally upgraded my sleep game it's koiuchi Now, if you haven't heard of them, just wait because this might be your new obsession.

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Starting point is 00:24:08 or anything like that. And yes, I know, I'm getting old. I'm officially a person who is like excited about bed sheets, but whatever. It's real. It's true. So here's the deal. If you want healthy, handcrafted luxury betting that lasts a lifetime, you need Koyuchi and get 15% off when you visit Koyuchi.com slash A-E. That's Koyuchi.com slash A-E to get 15% off. Again, that's C-O-Y-U-C-H-I.com slash A-E. I know I've said this before, but taking care of your health should not feel like a mystery. And that's exactly why I keep choosing function health over and over again. It's honestly one of the smartest things that I've done for myself in a really long time. Function gives you access to over 160 biomarkers, things like heart, hormone, toxin, inflammation levels, plus

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Starting point is 00:26:27 corner of her eye down to her nose. The bed was also soaked in blood, and the officers noted visible levidity, which if you don't know what that means, levidity refers to liver mortis, which is one of the stages of death, and it basically means that the blood is settling in your body, and it's starting to give your skin a purplish red color. Both girls were also partially covered by a pink blanket, which itself was saturated in blood. And as we know, the knife sheath was found on Maddie's right side on the bed. Defendant entered the residence, went to the third floor,

Starting point is 00:27:03 and with a knife killed Madison Mogan and came at its office. The defendant, as he left that room for whatever, reason, ended up leaving or the sheath for a K-bar knife was left on the bed next to Madison Mowland's body. And I can jump ahead. That sheath was tested by the Idaho State Police Forensic Lab and single source male DNA was found on the snap of that sheath. As well as blood from both Kaylee and Madison and other trace evidence, but it's important

Starting point is 00:27:40 to note single source male DNA was on the snap of that. sheets. Now, Kaylee's room, which was just next door to Maddie's, was surprisingly neat. The only disruption appeared to be that the sheets had been pulled back, almost as if someone had been lying there and then quickly got out of bed. I've seen some speculation that maybe she heard what was happening to Maddie and she went in there to intervene. But because her bed was also so neat, I think that maybe she was going to sleep in her own room, but like girls do, sometimes like you're eating, you're debriefing from the night, you're hanging out in the same bed, and then you just like pass out and fall asleep. So I don't know why it was, the sheet was undone or what happened,

Starting point is 00:28:17 and maybe that's a detail. We'll never know. As for Kaylee's golden doodle, Murphy. Murphy was found on her bed, scared, but physically unharmed. He had been locked in her room during the initial investigation, and then eventually he was found hiding underneath her desk. Police coaxed him out and noted that he didn't appear to be in the room during the attack, and this was based on the fact that he had no visible blood on his fur or his paws. So going through this police report, moving downstairs, Zana was found in her room wearing only underwear and a long-sleeved gray shirt, both of which were covered in blood. She had clear defensive wounds too, including a deep gash between her thumb and her pointer finger, signs that she certainly fought back. And as I said,

Starting point is 00:29:01 she had the most stab wounds, over 50 of them. And according to the autopsy, again, we'll get into all of this. I'm not trying to get ahead of myself, but I want to just give some context. The majority of those 50 wounds were defensive wounds. She fought like hell. Ethan was found in Zana's bed and he had a blanket over his midsection and his feet were hanging off the edge. Now, blood spray was found above his head and he also had two large gashes on the back of his legs that went deep inside the tissue. And we had heard how Brian Coburger allegedly like cut the back of his hamstrings, which I don't think was necessary. Ethan was asleep.

Starting point is 00:29:43 I think he probably was killed relatively quickly. We know that the cause of death was the stab wound under his left clavicle. So to me, again, kind of going back to the in-cell theory, these injuries of his hamstrings being sliced is very indicative of hatred toward men. That's my personal thought. And I will say this too. Early on, back in, I think it was January, 2023, right after Brian was arrested before any details came out, there was a text message circulating about an FBI agent who, you know,

Starting point is 00:30:20 share, overshared some of the information. And I had a friend of mine also reached out who said like, you know, and I actually said this in my video. I was like, you know, a friend of mine said that she's close with an FBI agent, that here's some of the details that have come out. including Ethan's hamstrings being cut, including one of the victims, who we now know is Kaylee, her face being disfigured, one victim being stabbed over 50 times, which we now know was Zana. And not like, I get it. That was a lot of information to share early on, but there was a lot of hate that came with that because people are like, it's rumors, it's not confirmed, it's in that.

Starting point is 00:30:57 And now looking back, it was true. It was true. And it's horrible. And it's also horrible that an FBI agent would release. that kind of sensitive information to where it would go mainstream, right? So anyway, the nightstand in Zana's room had also been oddly moved in all of this. It was pushed up against the bed at this, like, very unnatural angle, which might indicate a struggle or somebody bumping into it during the attack. Investigators also found footsteps leading from the crime scene out the back door,

Starting point is 00:31:26 and then kind of curving around a stump toward the front of the house. They also found smudged fingerprints on the door. Small handprints were discovered on a window just east of the back door, and the screen for that window was found on the ground and also visibly damaged. In the backyard, the police discovered a discarded black backpack. A black vest was also found nearby on Taylor Avenue. Then a few days later, a black glove with visible blood on it was found about 25 feet from the front door. The police later determined that that glove wasn't there on the morning. of the murders. So we don't know maybe somebody came back and dropped it off later with somebody

Starting point is 00:32:06 trying to play some sort of sick joke, but they did find it. Then on a desk in one of the second floor bedrooms, officers found a rolled up $2 bill and a mysterious blue powder. We know it was a party house. We know people in college sometimes will partake in drugs. So what that really means and if it's something more sinister, I don't really know. Now let's go into the coroner's report and the autopsy results. The coroner determined that all four of the victims died from sharp force injuries, but each case did have its own specifics, and the details paint a picture of honestly extreme violence. As I mentioned, Ethan's fatal wound was a stab wound right under his left clavicle, and it severed both his subclavian vein and his artery. His jugular vein was also cut,

Starting point is 00:32:56 and he had those deep cuts onto his hamstrings, which I think, again, may indicate that the murderer, Brian Coburger, had a particular rage toward Ethan, or even toward men in general. Now, Ethan only had sharp force injuries. There were no other physical injuries such as being punched or strangled or anything like that. Zana's autopsy revealed that she suffered more than 50 stab wounds, many of them defensive, and this led the coroner to conclude that, quote, an intense struggle had occurred. Her fatal injuries included a laceration to the right lung and two to the heart. Like Ethan, she only had sharp force injuries.

Starting point is 00:33:38 Maddie's fatal injuries were a laceration to her left lung and another to her liver. The coroner did not mention any defensive wounds and her injuries were also limited to sharp force trauma. It seems as though Maddie got the least of it, which, again, again, again, it makes you kind of ask the question, right? Is it because he was so angry at everybody else for foiling his plan if Maddie was, in fact, the target, which I believe she was. And if you haven't heard my latest episode on that, I will link it in the show notes. But we talk all about the movements that day, walking through the house, what that looked like, what the motivation may have been. And it's a lot of conversation and speculation and just my thoughts, but we do talk

Starting point is 00:34:21 about it. Now, Kaylee, her injuries really stand out because she had the most complex and varied injuries of all four of the victims. She suffered a left lung laceration, a liver laceration, a cut behind her clavicle that severed both her subclavian vein and her artery, just like Ethan, two subdural brain bleeds, and she also had 20 stab wounds in total, which it's later been reported, according to her own father, that she had 34 stab wounds. And Kaylee was the only victim to have multiple types of trauma. She had sharp force injuries, exfixial injuries, and she even had blunt force injuries. So again, that begs the question.

Starting point is 00:35:02 Did Brian violently attack her because she ruined his plans with Maddie? Did she fight back and he lost control of the weapon? And then that's why he fought her physically so hard? What's the real story there? So as for the weapon, the coroner concluded that it was not serrated. It was a single-edged and extremely sharp weapon. and that a lot of force was used in every single attack. Some of the stab wounds were also so deep that the guard of the knife, you know, that

Starting point is 00:35:29 little flat metal piece right before the handle between the blade and the handle, it actually left an imprint on the victim's skin. That is how rageful he was stabbing them with so much force. And some wounds had telltale shapes. The shallower ones had two pointed ends, while the deeper ones showed one pointed end and one squared off shape at the other, likely caused when that little, like, hilt kind of pressed against the body. So those details helped identify the kind of knife that was used. Eventually, the coroner stated that, quote, the shape and size of the K-bar knife that Brian had bought off Amazon was in fact

Starting point is 00:36:07 consistent with the wounds on all four victims, not definitive proof, but definitely damning. Now, let's talk about some key evidence and what goes into this and what can out in this document dump. On December 27th, 2022, investigators in Pennsylvania retrieved trash from the Coburger family residence in Albrightville, Pennsylvania. The lab compared a DNA profile that was pulled from the trash to the DNA that was found on that button snap of the K-bar knife sheath, the one that had been left at the scene next to Maddie. The analysis showed that the male DNA recovered from the trash belonged to somebody who could not be excluded as the biological father of the suspect who left DNA on the knife sheath. And statistically, the match was incredibly

Starting point is 00:36:53 strong, so strong that at least 99.999% of the male population could be ruled out as being the suspect's biological father. In other words, Brian's dad was almost certainly the source of the DNA in the trash. And the person who left the DNA on the knife sheath was almost certainly his son, a pretty devastating match to Koberger. Mr. Koberger proceeded to finish his semester of studies at Washington State University and returned to Pennsylvania for the holidays. Law enforcement at this point were aware of Mr. Koberger had been accessing information about him. We're trying to find him. They located him in Pennsylvania and they conducted what's called a trash pole during the nighttime hours, agents of the FBI who assisted immensely.

Starting point is 00:37:46 with this case working with the sanitation department back in this neighborhood in Pennsylvania took trash that had been set out on the street for collection sent the contents of that from the Pennsylvania residents of the defendants parents to the Idaho State Forensic Laboratory where the lab experts there were able to identify DNA on a Q-tip as coming from the the father of the person whose DNA was found on the ninth sheath that was next to Madison Mogan's body and the bed. Subsequently, an arrest warrant was issued here in Idaho, and a search warrant was issued

Starting point is 00:38:32 in the state of Pennsylvania with the assistance not only of the FBI but the Pennsylvania State Police. Mr. Koberger was arrested at his parents' home to return to Idaho. Upon his return to Idaho, a DNA sample was taken from him. and it matched the DNA found on the knife sheath next to Maddie's body at the crime scene. Also discovered from the night of the murders was that on November 13th, 2020, at 1226 a.m.,

Starting point is 00:39:02 Brian searched for police scanners. He landed on something called broadcastify.com, and he specifically started looking up Pullman Police and Fire Dispatch Live. Now, that is just hours before the murders are believed to have occurred. Police also found a screenshot that was saved on Brian's phone, and it was a screenshot of the Whitman County Jail roster. And the image showed booking info for a suspect with the initials CEF, who had been arrested around the same time as this all went

Starting point is 00:39:32 down for a hit and run and a DUI involving a knife. So I don't know if this could have been some bizarre sort of inspiration for Brian, or maybe just a disturbing rabbit hole that he fell into, but It was weird that he saved the screenshot and was looking into it, or maybe he was going to try to blame that person for it. I don't really know. Brian had also previously applied for an internship with the Pullman Police Department back in the fall of 2022. And in his application, he said that he was interested in helping rural law enforcement improve how they collect and analyze technological data in public safety operations.

Starting point is 00:40:08 So basically, I know that was a mouthful, but basically he wanted to help police be better at catching people, while also plotting his own quadruple murder himself. Well, single murder turned into quadruple murder, in my opinion. And his online footprint didn't stop there. Brian posted a now infamous Reddit survey to multiple subredits. I'm talking prison, felons, prison talk, ex-cons, moderators of felon, all sorts of different subredits. And some of them even banned him for a day with a message saying, we do not approve of these posts.

Starting point is 00:40:42 please stop posting this. Now, the survey posts that he was posting in all these threads read, Hello, my name is Brian, and I am inviting you to participate in a research project that seeks to understand how emotions and psychological traits influence decision-making when committing a crime. In particular, this study seeks to understand the story behind your most recent criminal offense, with an emphasis on your thoughts and feelings throughout your experience. In the event that your most recent offense was not the one that led to a conviction, you may still participate. Additional surveys are included after the open-ended section as to best understand your unique traits. The study should take about 15 to 20 minutes to fully complete. Your identity and all

Starting point is 00:41:28 answers provided are completely confidential, and the link to the survey is also an anonymous link. The research has been approved by the DeSales University at IRP. Participants must be 18 years of age and older. If you opt to participate, you may terminate participation at any time for any reason. If you have any questions about this research, you may contact the research team via email. Student investigator, Brian Coburger at BK 5781 at DeSales EDU. Anonymous linked to the study linked here. And we all know that that survey was like beyond weird, right? It had questions like, what was your thought process leading up to the murders? How did you pick your victim? What were your thoughts when you left, did you leave anything behind, like almost trying to find a blueprint

Starting point is 00:42:14 to commit the perfect murder. A file for the documentary called Kids for Cash, which is about a judicial scandal where judges sent kids to jail for minor offenses, was also found as being added to Brian's dropbox between March 5th and March 9th, 2022. It's not clear whether this was part of a class assignment or just something that maybe he watched on his own, but it definitely that's this dark psychology theme, right? Police also discovered several emails in Brian's files that outlined the issues that he was having in his PhD program. These internal documents showed that he was eventually let go from his teaching assistant position and also lost his program funding, a major academic and professional setback that was likely weighing on him pretty

Starting point is 00:43:00 heavily. As investigators then dug deeper into his Amazon purchase history, they learned that Brian bought K-bar knife and sheath online. And in that same online order, he had also purchased vegan vitamins, D3K2 supplements, a 1.5 ton scissor jack, like a jack to, you know, jack up your car when you're changing a tire, DOT approved warning triangles, and a 14-inch universal lug wrench. The K-bar sharpener was also included too. And on paper, when you really look at it, it is a strange mix of like self-care and survivalist tools all mixed it together. So it makes you wonder what exactly he was planning and why. Was the jack and the triangles to like stage that being pulled over and like have somebody

Starting point is 00:43:49 stopped to help him and then attack someone? That way, I don't know. It just raises a lot of questions. The state's evidence as an overview would show that back in March of 2022 when the defendant was residing in his parents' residence or residing back in Pennsylvania in his home state. He purchased online a K-bar knife and sheath with an Amazon gift card that he had purchased shortly prior to the purchase of the knife, sheaf, and sharpener. The state's evidence will show that following Sunday, November 13th of 2022,

Starting point is 00:44:21 business records show that the defendant began searching for a K-bar knife and a K-bar-knife chief. as the state believes to replace the one that was left at the scene of the murders. The evidence also will suggest that there were at least attempts by the defendant to delete or alter his purchase history on Amazon where all these transactions had occurred. Then finally, the police scoured every digital trail that they could find for Kaylee, Maddie, Zana, and Ethan, including iCloud, Gmail, Yahoo, Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat, you name it. And not a single one of them had ever searched for Brian with OI, for Coburger, for Papa Rogers, for not for any of that. So this all strongly suggests that

Starting point is 00:45:14 the victims did not know Brian at all, meaning that this may have been a totally one-sided obsession where he just became fixated on that house and on one or more of the targets inside. Now let's talk about the movements of Brian's car and his cell phone, because surveillance footage from a neighbor identified in the documents as just TL, showed a vehicle entering King Road at 3.45 a.m. on November 13, 2022, then speeding away at around 4.20 or 4.30 a.m. The car didn't have a front license plate or lower fog lights. And as we know, that vehicle would later match Brian's car. At approximately 4.20 that morning, so this would have been 15 minutes or so later, Finn's car is seen on a surveillance camera for 1112 King Road, which is immediately next door

Starting point is 00:46:11 to the west of 1122, leaving the area at a high rate of speed. And if the court were to see that or anybody in this courtroom would see that, you can see the car almost loses control as it makes the corner, heads north, and then turns to go south on Willinta, which is one of the only ways to get out of that part of town. The evidence would show that following that, the defendant in his Alontera drove south of Moscow. We know that he drove on the backroads because there are surveillance cameras on the main highways, Highway 95. It would have picked up the defendant's car if he'd gone that route. And they did not show the defendant's car on that route during the time. So we know that he went through a variety

Starting point is 00:46:56 of back roads and very rural, isolated part of Lataw County. Then earlier that morning, starting at around 3.26 a.m., Brian's white Hyundai Alantra was picked up on various surveillance cameras. First, it was seen traveling westbound on Indian Hills Drive, then on Steiner Avenue, then crossing South Main Street toward Louder Avenue by around 3.28 a.m. Then at 3.29 a.m., the vehicle began circling 112-2-2 King Road, the house of those roommates. It made three passes by the house before returning again at 404 a.m. for a fourth time. Now, this time, the car was seen driving east on King Road and then stopping, then turning around in front of Queen Road. And it looked like it tried to park or maybe.

Starting point is 00:47:45 turn around in front of the house, but that they couldn't quite manage it. It was kind of like this three-point weird like turnaround situation. The vehicle then continued down King Road, turned again in a three-point turn at Queen Road, and drove back east. Which this entire loop, the slow passes, the hesitation, the weird turning, to me, it looks a lot like someone who is like scoping out a target or maybe even building up the nerve to do what they were planning to do. Then at 4.20 a.m., the car sped away from the King Road area, driving southbound on Walentah Drive. It didn't reappear until about an hour later. And by 5.25 a.m., surveillance cameras in Pullman, Washington, where Brian lived, picked the

Starting point is 00:48:28 Elantra up again. So investigators put together a map of all the registered white Hyundai alantras at Washington State University, and they zeroed in on Brian's as early as November 29th, 2022. Once they had a name, they then pulled his license photo, and he was listed as six feet tall with bushy eyebrows, eerily consistent with what the surviving roommate Dylan had described this masked men who entered the house looking like. The Alantra later pinged on license plate readers as Brian drove across the country. It was captured in Loma, Colorado on December 13th, and then again during a traffic stop in Hancock County, Indiana on December 15th. By December 16th, Brian and the Alantra had made its way back all the way back to Albright's Bill, Pennsylvania.

Starting point is 00:49:16 And then we, of course, know what happened shortly after that. Now, as for the cell phone data, here's where things get really interesting. On the night of the murders, Brian's phone went dark from 2.42 a.m. to 4.48 a.m. Just total radio silence. No calls, no text messages, no pings, which was obviously a clear attempt to hide his location. We then move to the early morning hours of November 13th, 2022. The state's evidence would show that early morning hours on that day, Mr. Kovirger's phone left his Pullman residence, which is an apartment in kind of the north, central northwest part of Pullman. That phone was then subsequently turned off at approximately 254 a.m. and remained off until approximately.

Starting point is 00:50:10 only 4.48 a.m. on Sunday the 13th November. Then, when the phone came back online, it pinged near Blaine, Idaho. Then it began moving south toward Janice, west to Union Town, and then finally north back up to Pullman. By 5.30 a.m., the phone was back at Brian's apartment, which that timeline, as we know, lines up disturbingly well with the path that the car was seen taking. Later that morning at around 9 a.m., the phone left Brian's apartment and it headed back toward Moscow. It pinged there from 912 a.m. to 9.21 a.m. A very short, very brief, unexplained return to the scene of the crime, which it's been speculated that possibly he was going to, you know, revel in the scene and the chaos that was unfolding, but was surprised that it hadn't started erupting yet.

Starting point is 00:51:02 But it's also been said that possibly he was returning back to retrieve the sheath that he had realized he left behind. Although if he did drive all the way back there, I'm not sure why he wouldn't have gone in. Who really knows? But then he ends up heading back to Pullman and he's there by 9.32 a.m. So again, was he checking on something? Was he trying to see if the house had been discovered? Did he think that Dylan, after seeing him, had called 911. So he wanted to just in a sicko, pervert, creep way. Watch as the chaos was unfolding. We don't know. Later that morning, still this Sunday, the 13th of November of 2022, Mr. Coburg's phone returned to the area of King Road.

Starting point is 00:51:41 We don't know exactly what he did, but it returned to that area. It's about 9 o'clock in the morning. It's there for about 10 minutes and then returned to his Pullman residence. About 9.30, the state's evidence will show, evidence taken from the defendant's phone, that he took a selfie of himself on his phone and what appears to be the bathroom of his Pullman apartment with a thumbs up.

Starting point is 00:52:06 up. Then even more chilling. Cell phone towers show that Brian's phone had been near 1122 King Road at least 12 different times between June and November of that year. And all but one of those times occurred in the very late evening hours or early morning hours. One notable example of that is on August 21st, 2022, the phone pinged near the King Road residence between 10.34 p.m. and 1135 p.m. Then, just two minutes later, at 1137 p.m., Brian ended up getting pulled over by the local police, which, what the heck was he doing in that area, right? Unless stalking, lurking, watching. The state's evidence would indicate the beginning July 9th of 2022, Mr. Koberger's phone began connecting to a cell tower that serves the area of the 1122 King Road residence in Moscow, Idaho.

Starting point is 00:53:04 Now, I will acknowledge for the court in all present that there are many residences in that area. It's a dense population of mostly college-related occupants. Between July 9th of 2022 and November 7th, the defendant's phone connected to that particular tower during late night, early morning hours, 10 p.m. to 4 a.m., on approximately 23 times. And I will acknowledge also, we do not have evidence that the defendant had direct contact with 1122 or with residents of 1122, but we can't put his phone in that area on those times. In the interim, on August 22nd of 2022, Laitaul County Sheriff's Deputy Darren Duke conducted a traffic stop in the early morning hour or late evening hours about 11 p.m. on the west side of Moscow, on the Moscow-Polman Road. This was the traffic stop of Mr. Koberger's car,

Starting point is 00:54:04 which turned out to be a 2015 white Hyundai-A-Lantra with Pennsylvania plates. During the course of the traffic stop, Deputy Duke was able to obtain Mr. Koberger's name, Brian Koberger, his phone number and his address, which at that point was an apartment address in Pullman. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Now, I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but lately it seems like there is

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Starting point is 00:55:45 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash AE. That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P-E.com slash A.E. Now let's talk about some additional evidence. Outside the police report, the cell phone pings, all of that, I want to talk about some other information that was found and released. Investigators found a shovel in Brian's car, and they have the soil on this shovel analyzed to see if it could place him near the crime scene in Moscow. and one geologist determined that the soil was consistent with samples from the Moscow area

Starting point is 00:56:28 and that it could not have come from anywhere else but there, including Pennsylvania, where he was. So that ruled out the idea that the shovel had just been, you know, riding around in his trunk from when he was back home or anything like that. The shovel had been used in the Moscow area. But in true Coburger case fashion, nothing is simple because a different geologist said that the soil probably didn't match the control, samples from Moscow at all. That sample contained high levels of pine pollen, and interestingly, also pollen grains from basswood and red maple, which are not native to the Moscow area, but are commonly used as like ornamental landscaping. So the question is with all of that, was Brian in somebody else's yard? Was he in some sort of landscaped park? Was he doing something much sketchier with that shovel, perhaps bearing evidence, burying a murder weapon? Something like that. Meanwhile, something kind of odd happened in March of 2024. A company called Research Strategies Inc. started cold calling people all over the county, including some of the actual police officers, asking them a bunch of very specific questions about

Starting point is 00:57:39 Brian, the victims, and the case in general. And these survey questions were clearly designed to assess media exposure and public bias. For example, some of them read, have you read, listened to or seen any news coverage about Brian, Koberger, or the families of the victims. Have you heard or participated in any rumors surrounding Brian, the victims, or their families? What sources have you used to get your information? Newspapers, Netflix, documentaries? Do you know any of the students at the University of Idaho? Do you feel the community has felt excess stress since the murders? Do you think Brian could receive a fair trial? Would you be able to serve on a jury fairly and weigh in only on the evidence. Now let's talk about what happened

Starting point is 00:58:27 the night of the murders or the early morning hours of the murders, I should say, because we now have more statements from the witnesses. We have more information about the movements. And so I want to just go through all of that with you. Between 2 and 2.30 a.m. on the night of the murders, Maddie and Bethany let Kaylee's dog Murphy outside to use the bathroom. Shortly after that, Bethany watched the show Baby Daddy on her iPad, but she couldn't remember what episode it was or for how long. Then, sometime after 2.30, Maddie asked Bethany if she knew where Murphy was. Then she left. Bethany locked her bedroom door, and she went to sleep. Around 4 a.m. Dylan, the other roommate heard Kaylee scream, saying, somebody's inside the house. Dylan was on the second floor, and she said

Starting point is 00:59:12 she heard that scream come all the way from the third floor. So Dylan locked herself in her bedroom after hearing the scream. A little while later, she said she heard somebody either Kaylee or Zana crying in the bathroom. Then, after the sounds of a struggle stopped, Dylan heard a male voice very calmly say, you're going to be fine. I'm going to help you. Which is chilling, right? Because if Zana did spook Brian and come, you know, approach him or bump into him on accident,

Starting point is 00:59:42 she would probably panic seeing this guy in all black with blood on him and him trying to kind of shuffle her backwards, being like, it's okay, it's okay, I'm going to help you, I'm going to help you, as though he's not the one who just caused whatever happened upstairs, right? Then a few minutes after that, Dylan saw a man in a black ski mask walking near the second floor patio. She said that he was about six feet tall and that he did see her, but he just kept walking and left through the patio door. That same patio door was still open when the officers arrived later that day. There were two other roommates in the house, and they were already asleep. During the course of this, one of those roommates awoke, looked out her door not knowing what was going on,

Starting point is 01:00:25 and saw the defendant who was dressed in black with a black valve cob on holding some sort of container in his hand. And she saw him leave the house through the direction of the kitchen where that sliding door is that I mentioned before. Now, there's been a lot of scrutiny as to why 911 wasn't called right away why Dylan didn't call 911 the moment she saw the masked man. And when asked why she didn't call 911 after seeing him in the house, Dylan told the police that she had been intoxicated, that she, quote, didn't want to believe what was going on. So after that encounter, Dylan went to Bethany's room, and there they ended up sleeping in the same bed that night and told the police later how they both get scared very easily. Dylan told Bethany what she saw, but Bethany reportedly

Starting point is 01:01:09 didn't think too much of it at the time. She assumed that it might have just been someone from Ethan's fraternity house playing a prank on them. And sure enough, at around 4.20 a.m., Bethany had woken up in her first floor room, which was kind of more of like the basement level, and it was after hearing what sounded like a firecracker and seeing a flash. At the time, she thought it might have been, again, one of Ethan's frat brothers, just playing a joke. But she also said that she heard Murphy, the dog, barking during that time. Bethany tried calling all of the victims between 421 and 4.31 a.m. But she didn't get any responses. she and Dylan were both still groggy still a little drunk they had been drinking all night you know so they just went back to sleep unsure if anything serious had actually happened or if they were just being paranoid or still so intoxicated that they didn't understand what was really happening bethany then woke up again in the morning i believe it was around seven and she had a toothache she called her dad who's a dentist he told her to take some advil and go back to sleep which she did and then she woke up again around 1156 a m at that point she

Starting point is 01:02:13 She asked her friend Emily to come over, and Emily brought her boyfriend Hunter. And that's when Hunter entered the house. That's when he saw Zana and Ethan. He shuffled the girls outside, and he directed them to call 911. 9-1-9-1-location of the emergency. Oh, my company is happening. Something happens in our house. We don't know what.

Starting point is 01:02:33 What is the address of the emergency? One one's two. What is the rest of the address? Oh, Kings Road. Okay. And is that a house or an apartment? It's a house. Can you repeat the address to make sure that I have it right?

Starting point is 01:02:58 I'll talk to you guys. We live at the White, so we're next to them. I need someone to repeat the address for verification. The address? 1122 King Road. And what's the phone number that you're calling from? What's your phone number? And tell me exactly what's going on.

Starting point is 01:03:27 One of our, one of the roommates who's passed out and she was drunk last night and she was not like the up. Okay. Oh, and they saw some man in their house last night. Yeah. Hi. And are you with the patient? Okay, I need someone to keep the phone.

Starting point is 01:03:43 stop passing it around. Can I just tell you what happened pretty much? What is going on currently? Is someone passed out right now? I don't really know what pretty much at 4 a.m. Okay, I need to know what's going on right now if someone is passed out. Can you find that out? Yeah, I'll come.

Starting point is 01:04:00 Come on, but maybe I'll go check. But we have to. She's not She's not waking up. Okay, one moment, I'm getting home started that way. Okay, thank you. Okay, thank you. Okay, thank you.

Starting point is 01:04:40 What's wrong? Okay, and how old is she? She's 20. 20, you said? Yes, 20. Okay. Hello? Hello?

Starting point is 01:05:29 Okay, I need someone to stop passing the phone around because I've talked to four different people. Okay, sorry, they just gave me the phone. Is she breathing? Hello? Is she breathing? No Okay Okay

Starting point is 01:05:43 I have to talk to a lot Okay I've already You know Okay To talk to them I can't talk to them I need you to talk to

Starting point is 01:05:54 Okay Okay I've already sent The ambulance And law enforcement Stay on the line If there's a defibrillator available Send someone to get it now

Starting point is 01:06:05 And tell me when you have it Say that again There's a police here right now Okay. If there's a defibrillator available, send someone to get it now and tell me when you have it. Do you have a defibrillator? Yes, you have one. Are you talking to the officer? Yes. Okay. I'm going to let you go since he's there with you and can help you.

Starting point is 01:06:29 Okay. Thank you. Bye. Okay. Bethany also shared some very creepy context from earlier in the month. She recalled an incident where Kaylee had taken Murphy outside and she noticed a major. standing right above the house to the south, just staring down at her. Now, Kaylee was so freaked out by this that she called the roommates immediately, texted them asking when they were going to be home, and she told quite a few people about this. Then on November 4th, just nine days before the murders,

Starting point is 01:06:58 the roommates came home at around 11 a.m., and they found their door just open, kind of hanging loose on its hinges. Now, Kaylee wasn't home at the time, but Zana's dad ended up coming over and fixing it. In her statements, Bethany also said that both Ethan and Zana regularly snorted Adderall and that they had done so the night of the murders. She wasn't sure, but she suspected that Kaylee might have occasionally used Adderall as well, which that would explain the $2 bill that was rolled up and possibly the blue substance. I don't know what color Adderall is. I'm just guessing.

Starting point is 01:07:29 Bethany also shared that Kaylee was very into crime shows and that she would regularly check the registry list, to see if anybody was local and popping up around them. She liked to be hyper aware of all of the dangers in her surrounding areas, which kind of, I mean, when you think about it, it makes what happened to her even more devastating. She was trying to be hyper aware. She thought someone might have been watching her, stalking her. So she told them she checked the area to see if there were any, you know, offenders around

Starting point is 01:07:58 and seemingly fought like hell too against Brian. Now here's another detail that I think is interesting, and it doesn't necessarily mean anything concrete. But on November 10th, 2022, just three days before the murders, Bethany and Brian were at the same target in Moscow, target the store, you know, the big super store. It's unclear if they were there at the same exact time, but they were both at the same store the same day, which is super eerie because also why was he in Moscow that day? I get it. It's close to Pullman, but still, it just, again, makes you wonder. So speaking of the discovery and the morning of the murders, just before noon on the day that the bodies were discovered,

Starting point is 01:08:42 the surviving roommates, as I mentioned, had called Emily and Hunter, saying that they couldn't wake up Zana, that Emily and Hunter needed to come over, like they didn't know what to do, they were scared. So they arrived to the house at around 11.55 a.m. Hunter said he initially didn't even notice, Ethan, and he only saw Zana, and he didn't even immediately process what he was looking at, and seeing that what was all over her face in the room was dried blood. he thought it was just a mess that they had just been messy. So he kind of just stood there for a second, trying to make sense of all of it. Then, once it all started to click in his mind, not knowing if there was still somebody dangerous in the house, Hunter ran to the kitchen and he grabbed a steak knife so that he could protect himself. He then went back to Zana's room and checked the closet to see if anybody was hiding inside,

Starting point is 01:09:28 which that just tells you how chaotic and confusing this whole scene was for the people who first arrived on scene. They were really just trying to make sense of what they were seeing. Emily later told investigators that Dylan had called her around 11.51 a.m. and had said something to her along the lines of, last night at around 4 a.m., she heard and saw a man and that she and Bethany were locked in their rooms sleeping. Emily also said that Dylan told her that she heard Kaylee scream and run upstairs,

Starting point is 01:09:59 and that she had seen that man, quote, staring near her. But Emily said Hunter tried to shield her from saying how, bad that scene really was. Hunter and Emily say the fall weekend is started like any other with a big football game. The friends snapping this photo that Saturday. It was a normal weekend for us just hanging out with our friends. The next morning, Emily says Dylan, one of the surviving roommates called her concerned asking her and Hunter to come over. In the documentary you tell the story of really not feeling alarmed when Dylan called you. I joked around with her on the phone. You know, it's something you would never expect. It's November. So I had

Starting point is 01:10:35 shorts on, slides on. Like, I wasn't prepared to obviously stay there. I was just going over to check, see what's going on. I would say as soon as you get there, you know something's wrong. Hunter was the first person to arrive to King Road. To discover what happened, their friend Josie Lauderen, who was also there, describing the moments in the docu-series. As soon as I sat in the house, I was like, oh, something is so not right. Like, you could feel it almost. Hunter was ahead of me and Emily. and immediately was pushed out and Hunter was like, get out, somebody to call 911.

Starting point is 01:11:10 You hear Hunter on the 911 call telling the girls there was an unconscious person protecting them from the graphic details. Is she breathing? No. How did you remain so calm in that moment? Truly in my heart, I believe God was with me that day and he gave me the strength to get through that day.

Starting point is 01:11:31 As authorities entered the home, the friends say they were told sit outside, waiting for hours with little information. We watched the ambulance come and we watched them immediately leave. So I think that that was the, that was a hard top part for sure. That second you realize, there's no one to be saved, right? Their best friends inexplicably murdered. Not knowing who was responsible or why, they feared for their own safety.

Starting point is 01:11:59 We just left to get away, be safe. our mindset. You don't feel safe. No. In the nearly seven weeks, it took police to arrest a suspect, Emily, Hunter, and surviving roommates Dylan and Bethany became the targets of online sleuths and social media attacks. Lots of threats, people saying I should confess to murdering them. I felt like I was less than a person in that point in my life. Multiple neighbors also recalled hearing the dog Murphy barking that night. One said that the barking started at around 4 a.m. and that it went on until about 4.45 a.m. Another one pegged it closer to 4.20 to 5 a.m. And they emphasized that the barking was very out of the ordinary, not like Murphy's usual

Starting point is 01:12:45 behavior. Now, in regards to being stalked or being targeted, Maddie's parents told the police that she had never mentioned being followed or stalked by anyone. However, several of Kaylee's friends said that she had brought up a stalker back in September of 2022. For example, one friend identified as J.L. said that Kaylee once told her that a man had followed her around the Winco grocery store, then followed her out to her car and even tried to get inside it. Another friend described three separate occasions when Murphy, the dog, ran toward the woods behind their house and then wouldn't come back when he was called for, which again was totally unlike him. The roommates even had heard weird noises out there at one point too and

Starting point is 01:13:27 began to worry that somebody was watching them. That same friend also recalled an incident where she and Kaylee had returned home and found the sliding door open, and Murphy was missing. So was this a possible dry run, maybe? Was Brian going to the house trying to get familiar with Murphy so that Murphy wouldn't bark at him on the day of the murders? Who knows? A sorority president, going by R.H, told police that Zana and Ethan occasionally also did cocaine, but they emphasized that it wasn't anything big and that nobody in that house was selling drugs. A different different friend going by the initials K.N. said that Zana was, quote, pretty into cocaine. And they also believed that Kaylee used it occasionally. Now, the reason I bring that up, not that it, you know,

Starting point is 01:14:13 matters what somebody's drug use is, especially in college, people are going to try different things, maybe not hard drugs. But you know what I mean? There's no, you know, it's not to shame them. But it's because a big theory and rumor that was put out there at the very beginning of this was that King Road was a drug house, that this was all a drug deal gone bad, that it was somebody retaliating against them, that Brian's being framed for this, and that like it's really, it all leads back to drugs, which I know a lot of people still believe that as well. I personally don't. I think Brian's the guy. I think they got the right guy. I think it was because he wanted to see if he could get away with murder. But I just want to give you all of the details that are released so that you can,

Starting point is 01:14:52 of course, form your own conclusions and decipher it how you want. Now, what's weird is in a possible pre-crime sighting. A woman living just 0.13 miles from the house told the police that either in August or September of 2022, she and her daughter saw a man in their yard who was just pacing around and looking very nervous. She described him as having curly hair and a big nose. And she also later said that she was 92% sure that it was Brian Coburger. He walked past their house, disappeared.

Starting point is 01:15:26 then returned 15 minutes later, walking that same route in reverse. Again, trial runs, getting comfortable, casing the areas, who really knows? Another reporter reported seeing a white sedan parked in the area for over an hour back in June or July of 2022. So could that have been Brian doing early surveillance? One especially eerie tip came from a Walmart employee because while a detective was browsing the knife aisle, The employee mentioned that two to three weeks earlier, a white college-aged guy had come in and it was asking for a black ski mask that would cover his whole face. She said that he was taller than she was and that he had a tan complexion, which doesn't quite match Brian Coburger. But because they only had camo masks, he left and didn't buy anything.

Starting point is 01:16:16 Now let's talk about the door dash of it all because this has been a recent development over the last couple of months. and some people suspect that it's why Brian wanted to accept a plea deal to begin with, because he was so spooked that this DoorDash driver saw him. So the DoorDash driver with the initials of MM made three deliveries to the King Road Queen Road area that night. Her final stop was 2-1122 King Road, and it was just before 4 a.m. She said that the porch light made the house number difficult to see, so she ended up hanging around for about 15 minutes.

Starting point is 01:16:48 She said that she initially parked out front, and she saw a, woman in the third-story bathroom a few times during this time. Then, because the delivery app told her to, she circled to the back lot and started walking down the road that runs just east of the house. That's when this light-colored sedan pulled up next to her. She described the driver as white, with a red or blonde spiked hair and a light-colored, colored shirt, saying he was, quote, completely zoned in, just tunnel vision on whatever his task was. She didn't recognize the car or the driver, and then she walked back to her Subaru. Surveillance shows that at 358 a.m., Brian's white Alantra pulled in right behind this DoorDash driver's car, but she

Starting point is 01:17:32 never reported seeing it. Police eventually determined that the light sedan that M.M. had described was actually a light-colored SUV that left shortly after. Again, she reportedly never saw the Alantra at all, yet in a recording that was dated September 4th, 2024, she is reportedly heard saying, I saw Brian there. I parked right next to him. And then now I have to testify, so yeah, because I'm a garage driver, so yeah. You have to testify in which murder case. My daughter is called him. Oh. My daughter has to be right. I saw why in that.

Starting point is 01:18:16 Another delivery driver also reported seeing someone who looked like. Brian back in 2022, saying that he was wearing all black with unusual, quote, boxing or elf shoes, and that he was standing on a footpath near Terreview Drive, which had a direct view of many female tenants. Then in late 2024, police started getting repeated calls from a woman with the initials H-H, and she was claiming that she had evidence to exonerate Brian. But despite multiple conversations, she never actually shared any of that evidence, and she admitted that she had never seen him and had never spoken to him. So it seemed like somebody maybe just looking for clout or someone trying to just like throw a wrench in the investigation.

Starting point is 01:19:05 Okay, so real talk, I have never been a big coffee drinker. I've always felt like it made me jittery, upset my stomach, didn't sit really well with me. I also haven't really ever found. one that I like the taste of, but somehow after recently trying everyday dose, it has just totally changed that. And it's what they call functional coffee, because it does more than just give you this caffeine boost. It actually is made with functional ingredients like Elthianine, which helps with calm, focus, gut health, even skin support. So there's no crash, no jitters, no weird side effects. It's just this like smooth, easygoing, feel good energy. Even my husband Jeremiah, who is like a coffee drinker through and through, loves it. He is now like fully on

Starting point is 01:19:50 board with it. And sometimes even when I'm like making my own in the morning, he like hijacks it and takes it for himself, which I need to talk to him about that. But anyway, we don't always agree on our morning routines. And this is one thing that not only do we agree on, but we're kind of fighting over sometimes. And here's the exciting part. Everyday dose is now in Target stores nationwide. And I know all you listeners, you love Target like I do. They're even doing a buy one, get one deal. Just grab any two Everyday Dose products, and they will reimburse you for one. Visit Everydaydose.com slash serilessly for all the details. And even if you're not a coffee person, maybe give it a shot, because clearly neither was I, and I am now converted. Again, that's

Starting point is 01:20:30 everydaydose.com slash serialously. Now let's talk about the people who knew Brian. And could speak to his behavior before the murders occurred, and even after the murders, I guess, you could say. So after the murders, investigators spoke with several of Brian's fellow Ph.D. students and his coworkers at Washington State University. And let's just say, not everybody had glowing things to say about him. One fellow teaching assistant said that he had, quote, considered Brian a friend, even described him as being very intelligent, but also very selfish. He claimed that Brian would regularly mislead him about their share.

Starting point is 01:21:14 assignments and that he would dump his own workload onto him. He added that Brian was, quote, frequently 20 minutes late to their classes, and that he liked to discuss his area of study, which was criminal decision-making and burglary-type crimes. That same TA said that Brian came to his dorm room around the time of the murders and was acting very strange, saying he was, quote, talking much more than usual, and acted like, quote, someone who wanted to vent. The same student also told police that he had noticed visible injuries on Brian's face and hands on two separate occasions. This was in October and November of 2022. One of the injuries was a large scratch on Brian's face that looked like fingernail marks. Another time, he noticed wounds on Brian's

Starting point is 01:22:00 knuckles. And when he asked Brian what happened, Brian had said that he had been in a car accident, which we haven't been able to find any report of that. We didn't see any damage to his car. So it begs the question, if he had scraped up knuckles and fingernail markings on his face in the days leading up to the murders or weeks leading up to the murders too, did he go for a trial run? Is there another victim out there? What caused those? And why would he lie about a car accident? Another co-worker at WSU told police that Brian used his position as a teaching assistant to, quote, inappropriately interact with female students. The man said that Brian really wanted a girlfriend. And he added that the two of them had talked about how Brian wanted a girlfriend on many

Starting point is 01:22:43 occasions. Brian also asked his co-workers for help defending himself against misconduct allegations from a professor, but the co-worker refused, saying that he thought Brian was a dishonest person. Now again, not to harp on the whole in-cell theory of it all, but if him wanting a girlfriend was always the topic of discussion, that if you are very, if you're familiar with any in-cells or Elliot Roger, you know that that is like, they get tunnel vision. That's the only thing they think about is, I want a girlfriend. Why are other men getting girlfriends and having sex and I'm not? Why me? Why me? All of these things. And it ends up creating such a deep-seated hatred for women, for men, because they have everything in life that he doesn't have and will never have.

Starting point is 01:23:29 Now, text messages between professors at WSU also show that Brian was definitely not a favorite among the faculty. In August of 2022, one professor asked, do you want to take Coburger? He listed you and blank as people he was interested in working with. The reply was, if I must, then on September 14th, another professor wrote that they were trying to stage a, quote, intervention because Brian had apparently offended multiple female students. It's like nobody wanted anything to do with this creep. Not the students, not the teachers. Certainly not the majority of the female population, right? He was a creep. He was a loser. He was a little douchey twerp. I mean, through and through. Now, one woman that he did connect with on Tinder, he had matched with her on Tinder, said that they did bond over horror movies.

Starting point is 01:24:18 When she mentioned liking the Rob Zombie movie Halloween or like the many versions of Halloween, Brian apparently asked her what she thought the worst way to die would be, to which she replied by a knife. Then he followed up that statement by asking, like a K-bar knife, which I got to say is just incredibly on the nose, because we know that is the weapon that he used on the four victims. She, of course, ghosted him after that. She was like, who is this creep? But Tinder ended up saying that there were no records tied to the user information that she gave to the police. So it's unclear if this interaction actually happened. Another report came from an adult dancer, saying that she encountered a man that she believed to be. Brian between 2008 and 2019 at a strip club. And this club was about two hours away from his home in

Starting point is 01:25:08 Pennsylvania. She said that he was the only customer there during her stage set and that he muttered about, quote, wanting to kill people. She said that he muttered this under his breath at least twice. Then when she jokingly asked like, well, who? He reportedly replied, whoever I want. She offered him a private dance and during which he allegedly insisted that she, She looked directly at him in the eyes. And then he asked weirdly personal questions, like where she lived, what kind of car she drove, and she says that she found it incredibly creepy. So she didn't like it.

Starting point is 01:25:43 It put a bad taste in her mouth, and he apparently never came back to the club again. Another tip came in from someone who claimed that Brian had taken PhD courses at Oklahoma State University. They alleged that he became close with a professor whose initials are JD, who gave him a K-bar knife, and also encouraged violent ideation. The same witness said that Brian had, quote, a sloppy homicidal mindset and possibly even had a psychotic break. They also claimed that the professor

Starting point is 01:26:12 was a, you know, martial arts instructor and a predator who, quote, initiated Brian into brutality. But here's the catch with all of this. This witness had submitted 36 tips to the FBI in the recent years, and the police couldn't verify that Brian ever even attended Oklahoma State. So take this one with like, you know, a grain assault, a truckload of salt, because it doesn't really seem like it's panning out. Brian's past landlords also had a couple of interesting

Starting point is 01:26:40 stories, too. They said that they once found a broken, serrated cooking knife blade in the gutter outside of his apartment. The handle was missing, and the blade was about eight inches long and two inches wide. Cops didn't think that it was used in the murder, obviously, but it still is weird when you think about it. Now let's talk about Brian's initial interview with the police. During his initial interview, Brian talked a bit about his background and how he was interested in criminal justice. He also mentioned that he had once considered becoming a police officer, but ultimately didn't pursue it because he didn't want to commit to that path unless he was, quote, absolutely sure. Then when one of the detectives brought up the quadruple murder, the deaths of all these

Starting point is 01:27:21 victims, Brian immediately acknowledged it. And he responded, of course, of course I know about it. He then said that it was the incident that the police had been investigating for, quote, how long has it been? Which is kind of a strange way to refer to a quadruple homicide investigation that he was potentially involved in, like, how long have you been investigating that incident? Of course I know about it. Then when he was asked why he wanted to be a professor instead of a cop, Brian said it was because he loved being in college.

Starting point is 01:27:50 He said that to him, quote, knowledge was far more important than money. Which to me, I wonder if the reason he loves school so much is because that's where he's noticed. That's where he excels. He gets straight A's or whatever. So it's like maybe that's the only thing in his life that ever made him feel proud or accomplished. And that's why he likes school so much. Then at one point, Brian also shared a little bit about his personal beliefs. He says that he was raised Christian, but that he had always been skeptical. Except, interestingly, when, quote, he was confronted with the beauty of the natural world. which almost felt like poetic in a way that kind of makes you wonder, like, was he trying to sound profound, philosophical even? Or was this more of just like the intellectual persona that he clearly wanted to present? But to be like, I've always been skeptical until I was finally confronted with the beauty of the natural world.

Starting point is 01:28:42 I mean, no, no, no, no. Now let's talk about prisoners who have encountered Coburger since all of this first went down. A male inmate who encountered Brian in jail did not hold back. he called Brian, quote, a fucking weirdo, and he said that he would have assaulted him if he wasn't worried about getting into more legal trouble. That same inmate said he had no doubt that Brian committed the murders, adding that, quote, his eyes tell a story. Another inmate who was housed next to Brian had a more nuanced take. He described Brian as, quote, highly intelligent and polite for the most part. He even called him, quote, the smartest person he had encountered while in

Starting point is 01:29:21 confinement. But even that inmate admitted that Brian had some very strange habits. He said that Brian would, quote, wash his hands dozens of times every day, and that he would spend 45 minutes to an hour in the shower. He would also be awake almost all night, and he would only take a nap during the day. Brian apparently would, quote, often question him about his past criminal offenses and why he was in the maximum security wing. Almost like Brian was trying to study him. The same inmates said that there was really only one time that Brian ever lost his temper. He had been video chatting with his mom, which he apparently did for hours. And during one of these calls, this inmate was like watching a sporting game in the background and casually said like, you suck, presumably to the

Starting point is 01:30:06 players. But Brian immediately jumped up, got in his face, well, face to bars, and aggressively asked if the comment was about him or his mom, which I got to just say, kind of a mama's boy. But also, for someone who studied criminal behavior, Brian definitely. was not great at managing his emotions. The inmate also mentioned that Brian seemed excited to be transferred to Ada County, which kind of might say something about how isolated or uncomfortable he was at the initial facility. Now, something else that has popped up that just makes me so enraged, and this came up just recently over the last few days, is that there still, as we know,

Starting point is 01:30:43 is a big camp of people who call themselves the pro burgers who say Brian's innocent, that he only took the plea deal because he's scared to get the, death penalty, that he's being framed, blah, blah, blah, blah. There's something bigger, all these things. But as if that's not bad enough, right? And as if it's not bad enough that all these people on YouTube are like pushing, that the roommates are involved and that Brian's innocent, some people have even gone as far as immediately following the sentencing to threaten the victim's families. One person even text message Kaylee's mother saying, I was in the courtroom during the sentencing. I sat right behind you.

Starting point is 01:31:21 And Brian Coburger is innocent. I know a lot of wannabe serial killers, and don't worry. I've given them your address. I mean, just very scary and, like, unhinged behavior. At this point, the families should be left alone. All they should be worried about is grieving, getting closure, getting peace. Yet these fuckwads are still screwing with them, threatening them, reaching out to them, saying Brian's innocent that he was wronged, slandering the roommate's names.

Starting point is 01:31:50 It's so horrible. And it's like if you are one of those people and you are hearing this or watching this, you deserve whatever karma is coming your way. You are sick in the head. I first want to ask you, though, and I noticed this. I was sitting behind you guys and I saw Christy, your wife, pull out her phone and look sort of disturbed. And then you guys called the deputy over and then he was looking at your phone. And I kind of figured something bad was going on.

Starting point is 01:32:17 And it turns out that it was a threatening text. message that she had received during the actual sentencing while the victim impact statements were going on. I don't want to read the whole thing because I just don't want to give glory to, you know, whoever did this, but I do want to read a little bit so people can see what exactly happened. It says, sitting near you in court and watching you is a joke. You know that Brian is innocent.

Starting point is 01:32:41 Making threats to Brian about getting raped in prison was very silly. I am in contact with a lot of serial killers, including BTK, and I've been put in contact with a wannabe serial killer who is in Moscow, Idaho, and I have given him your address. And I don't think people realize, Steve, that this is the kind of stuff that you and your family, and I'd imagine the other victims, too. I mean, you guys have been having to deal with this for some time,

Starting point is 01:33:06 but during the actual sentencing, what did you make of it? Yeah, the sentencing, there's definitely an element of crazy people that gravitate towards these type of events. That's why I've always hoped that the court would use force and be very careful with all the voices that they're talking to, like, you know, make sure that we're holding these people accountable and, you know, be tough on them. So are they going to do an investigation? Again, I saw the deputy take Christy's phone.

Starting point is 01:33:43 I mean, is there any way to trace and figure out who that was? I'd imagine it wasn't really someone in the courtroom. I guess it could be, but it seems. like that part was probably just made up. Yeah, I think so as well. They just wanted to piggyback right off something she had said because it was live TV or slight delay close to live TV. And it was accurate, you know, so we did pass it on to our lawyer and he started working

Starting point is 01:34:06 with the investigators and they're definitely going to, or if they already haven't tracked this person down and they'll be held accountable. I spoke with Olivia yesterday, your daughter, and your victim impact statement was obviously really just intense and hers was intense and both are getting a lot of attention I think have really sort of inspired the world in a way. She told me that, you know, she felt relieved after the hearing that she actually did feel just a little better in general. Did you feel the same way? I mean, how are you doing now? Yeah. To be honest, I felt great because I felt like the first time the courtroom was had a representation that was in harmony of our family.

Starting point is 01:34:52 We're not going to sit there in honor a mass murder and say that he can sit on his butt because he was honorable to the sword. He was honorable to the judge. Of course, he's going to be honorable to the judge. Judge can, it's going to decide if he lives or die, but he wasn't honorable to us. And that's, if you're not there for the victims, then what's the reason at the courtroom, you know? So for the first time we set the tone and we wanted to have some power in that courtroom and dictate some things to him. So then he was just sitting there getting railed on.

Starting point is 01:35:23 So like I said, this episode was more to go over the document dump. And there is more information coming out daily. So I'm sure we'll be back with more soon. But if you want more of the deep dive into what happened that night, the movements, the motive, my thoughts of the motive, the discovery the next morning. firsthand from Hunter, who we hear from, I did do an episode a couple of weeks ago. I mentioned it a little bit earlier. I'm going to link it. There was a docus series that came out called One Night in Idaho. It came out earlier in July. I was able to watch it a few months before it was

Starting point is 01:35:55 released because Amazon gave it to me to watch. And a lot of new information was in that docu-series. But we do a deep dive into the night of the murders. And what happened, how it could have happened so quickly when Brian then sits down in that chair in Ethan and Zana's room and leaves the bloody impression. And was that because he was so drained from the adrenaline rush of killing the four people? Or was that because that's when he was disrobing his hazmat suit or whatever he was wearing. And then that's the reason he didn't attack Dylan because he was already cleaned up at that point. He didn't want to risk getting blood on him or leaving DNA behind rather than like the initial thought of mine, whereas that he just bypassed her because he was so physically exhausted.

Starting point is 01:36:36 We talk about all of that. So I'll link that. It was just a few weeks ago. You can find it in the feed, too, if you don't want to just click the direct link. And it's called, let me see, what's it called? Let me just pull it up really quick. It's on the podcast and on YouTube, but as you know, podcast is unedited and uncensored. YouTube likes to censor me. So if you want the uncensored version, you can listen on the podcast.

Starting point is 01:36:59 Okay, so it's a few back in the feed from July 8th. And the title is One Night in Idaho, Friends Who Found Victims Speak Out, and Brian Coburger's true motive. And it's a deep dive into all of this. So other than that, I've also been going live randomly on Patreon where just kind of randomly each day as new information is coming out and I'll do a live stream with you guys and then we'll talk in our group chat on Patreon too. So if you feel like not only with this case but with other cases that are happening right now that you want to just like be in the know and not wait for these formal episodes, Patreon is definitely the place to be. We have exclusive episodes over there. There's about

Starting point is 01:37:37 a hundred that you can unlock right now. All the other episodes that I put out are ad free over there. And then, yeah, I just do live streams randomly when new stuff breaks and when new information comes out and then we have our group chat too. So you can get access to that. It's linked in the show notes. It's also easy. Patreon.com slash Annie Elise. But that's the place you're going to want to be if you want to hear more about all these breaking cases. Like right now, for example, the case in Arkansas with the two murdered hikers, we have talked about Aaron Spencer, the father who is being charged with second-degree murder for killing his daughter's rapist and abductor, which feels so ass backwards, right?

Starting point is 01:38:18 It's where we just talk about everything. So that's it for the document dump today. Again, I'll probably back with you soon with another update because more information just keeps coming out daily, but this is at least like a big bulk of it. so I appreciate you guys tuning in and as a reminder going on the second leg of this tour in a couple weeks here we're going to hit raleigh North Carolina Atlanta and Nashville and if you want tickets there's still a few left I think we're sold out for meeting greets maybe not there might be a couple left so you can go to annie lees.com go to the tour tab but we had this first run just last week and a week

Starting point is 01:38:53 and a half ago now where it was Toronto Boston New York Philly and D.C and it was great we talk about an all-new exclusive case. We deep dive into it, exclusive CCTV footage, interviews that we filmed on our own and flew out there for. And it was just really nice connecting with so many of you in person and meeting so many of you one-on-one. So I appreciate you guys all coming out. All right, guys, that's it for today.

Starting point is 01:39:18 I know I've tried to sign off like three times, but that's it for realsies this time. Thank you so much for being here. I will talk with you again on Thursday with headline highlights. And until the next one, be nice. Don't kill people. don't join any cults and don't be an in cell just don't all right thank you so much and bye

SERIALously - 304: DISTURBING: 1000+ Unsealed Pages Expose Terrifying New Details in Idaho Murders

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