SERIALously - 363: Savannah Guthrie’s Mom: New Timeline, Ransom Deadline & Possible Motives | Nancy Guthrie Update

Starting point is 00:00:00 Access Storage presents the Olympic spirit. Hi, I'm Piper Gillis. And I'm Paul Porie. And we are Team Canada ice dancers. When we're in Milan, we aren't just representing all the accomplishments and the success it takes to get to the games. We're celebrating all the people at home. The people that have supported us, they're going to be cheering for us. When we go out on the ice, we're going to be skating.

Starting point is 00:00:19 We know our community's going to be cheering for us. We know the country's going to be cheering for us. And that's such an important and special feeling on the biggest stage. Thank you, Canada. Brought to you by Access Storage, proud partner of Team Canada. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialesley. Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial-Lessly with me, your true crime bestie, Annie Elis.

Starting point is 00:01:05 And today's a bonus episode, as you can see. It's not our usual release schedule, but it's a bonus episode because we have a lot to talk about. So many of you guys have been in my DMs and have been commenting and wanting me to dive deeper into Nancy Guthrie. Savannah Guthrie's mother and the disappearance, the abduction, the ransom note, the potential prime suspect. And I talked a little bit about the case in headline highlights yesterday, but since then, there has been a lot more information that has come to light. A new timeline has surfaced, new details, a new press conference that shared quite a bit of information. And so I wanted to just jump on here and share everything that we know, what fact, what speculation,

Starting point is 00:01:48 what is confirmed and break it down for you. And so that you have all of the information in one place. Because I know that there is stuff flying out right now, left and right out there, and it's hard to keep things straight. I also have been putting updates out on the True Crime Instagram account. You can search it. The handle is at Serialessly Pod, where we're posting updates in real time as we hear them. But I want to just kind of break everything down for you,

Starting point is 00:02:13 give you a little bit of backstory, a little bit of context, and go through the timeline and things that we've learned on our end, too, as we've been digging. And let me also just be very frank with you and up front. This is definitely not going to be the cleanest episode in the sense of, you know, very well put together and structured, because I'm just jumping on the mic and I'm just talking with you. And we're going to just talk through this together. But, you know, that's what we are, that we're friends, right? Now, obviously, we know this, okay? For those who are still catching up a little bit, Savannah Guthrie, the host of the Today Show, her mother disappeared over the weekend.

Starting point is 00:02:48 and it's in what is alleged to be an abduction. Since this first happened, there has been a lot of stuff coming out. Her house was, yes, ruled as a crime scene. There was blood. There was a doorbell camera that had been ripped off. There was some other stuff going on in the house, which I'll get into. And it all stemmed from when she didn't show up to church that day. They knew that something was wrong.

Starting point is 00:03:11 So since the disappearance, information has just been like pouring in minute by minute. and I want to just like backtrack a bit and talk a little bit about Nancy, okay? And like who Nancy was, how she lived her life, why she was in Arizona. Also, we know that she and Savannah are very close, which most mothers and daughters are. I mean, maybe not most, but a lot. But I think that there's a reason why they are especially close. See, back in 1988, Savannah's father unfortunately died after suffering a fatal heart attack. So after that, Nancy became the single parent to Savannah and her other two siblings, so three children in total.

Starting point is 00:03:53 And raising three children alone certainly, you would imagine, would create some very close relationships with your children, right? Now, she lived most of her adult life in Arizona and then later resided in the Catalina Foothills area, which is where she disappeared from. But as we've heard in several press conferences, she is described by law enforcement. as mentally sharp, not suffering from dementia. She yeah does have physical, you know, some mobility limitations that make it difficult for her to walk on her own unassisted more than 50 feet. She also requires daily medication. And they have stated that by missing her medication for more than 24 hours, it could be life-threatening. And she lived alone in Arizona for the most part. She did have occasional house staff that would come in here and there, but she did live on her own

Starting point is 00:04:42 and unassisted. So she, you know, was very much independent, is my point in all of this. Because even though the police have vocalized that they do not believe this to be a dementia-related situation and they believe this was an abduction, there are still people out there being like, it could be, it could be. She lived on her own. She was independent. She did, you know, she had occasional house staff, but she had a few limitations, but she was very much, you know, could physically live on her own. So let's go through and start back at the beginning with the disappearance, the investigation, and everything that we have learned along the way and kind of, you know, talk through some of the theories and speculation to and what's been confirmed and what has not been confirmed.

Starting point is 00:05:26 So on Saturday, January 31st, at approximately 5.30 p.m., Nancy took an Uber from her home in Arizona over to her daughter, Annie's residence. The Uber driver has since been contacted and has been interviewed by the police. She returned home a few hours later at 9.48 p.m. family members of hers dropped her off back at her residence. And they actually said in the press conference today that there is data that they've recovered that shows that not only did she arrive at 948, but the garage door opened and that at 9.50 p.m. the garage door closed behind her. Then, into the early morning hours of Sunday, February 1st, at 147 a.m., the ring doorbell camera disconnected from the system. And we've seen images, too, of Nancy's front porch where it looks like it was physically ripped off from the brick wall, and that data shows that that happened at 147 a.m. Then, about 30 minutes later, roughly, at 212 a.m., software detected a person on camera. outside of Nancy's house. However, it's not captured on video because the way that the system

Starting point is 00:06:38 was set up, she didn't have the subscription with the software, so the video was constantly just recording over itself. So it did detect somebody, but that video footage is no longer able to be recovered. Then about 15 minutes later, at 2.28am, Nancy's pacemaker last synced with her devices, and it stopped connecting to Wi-Fi. Now, I have to say this, data will likely come into play as the investigators work on this case because if you recall, pacemaker data played a huge role in the case of Gene Hackman and his wife, Betsy, in their case from February of 2025. It helps really just illustrate the timeline and nail in on certain movements and timestamps and things of that nature. So all of that happens in that very condensed

Starting point is 00:07:28 window between 147 a.m. and 230 a.m. Not a big period of time. I mean, you're talking 45 minutes between when somebody ripped that doorbell camera off and then when her pacemaker stopped sinking with her devices. The following morning, we know that Nancy failed to appear at church. So this was very out of character for her enough so that they immediately raised their hand being like, this doesn't feel right. So at 11 a.m., the church contacted her family members.

Starting point is 00:07:57 By 1156 a.m., her family members went over to the residence that Nancy 11.1.1.5. lived in and they wanted to go and check on her to see if everything was okay. They searched the home themselves, but as we know, Nancy was not located. So then just a few minutes later, literally five minutes later, less than 10 minutes later, at 12.03 p.m., family members called 911 to report her as missing. By 12.15 p.m., the county sheriff's deputies had responded to the residents, and when they entered and when they assessed the scene, here's what they found. Nancy's car, phone, and walk, were all still inside the home. There were also blood drops that were found outside leading toward the driveway. We also know that doorbell camera had been removed. And this painted a pretty

Starting point is 00:08:45 eerie scene from the get-go and they were quick to label it as a crime scene because the blood coming from the front door out and some blood droplets inside the house, it could yes mean that a crime occurred inside. Although, I think that if there were larger amounts of blood, they wouldn't be listing this still as an abduction. And I think they would say that they believe a murder happened. I believe, here's what I think. I don't know if maybe whoever did this knocked Nancy over the head and it caused some sort of cut and that was the blood. We also know that she's older as you age, your blood thins and even the smallest bump or scrape on your arm can create very thin blood that does spill out. So we don't know how that blood got there or what caused it,

Starting point is 00:09:37 but they did confirm that the blood that was tested did outside on the porch does in fact belong to Nancy. So by that afternoon, Border Patrol units had deployed all sorts of help and different techniques. They had canines. They had helicopters. I mean, there was an extensive search going on. and by evening, what based on all of the evidence that they had collected and everything that they were looking at, it led the investigators to believe that Nancy did not leave voluntarily, that she was, in fact, abducted. So overnight, rolling into Monday of this week, the extensive search operations continued, and by 9 a.m. on Monday, it was the very first press briefing. And in this press briefing, the county sheriff Chris Nanos said that Nancy did officially,

Starting point is 00:10:24 sorry, like trying to talk and it's not coming out, he did state officially that Nancy did not leave on her own. Now at first, the press briefing sheriffs declared that their residence was a crime scene and that law enforcement stated that they did believe a crime occurred. Authorities also confirmed that they are in possession of Nancy's cell phone and any possible home surveillance systems. They also said that they have other tracking devices, but that at this point they didn't have any sort of potential motive in play. They didn't know whether Nancy was targeted because of her famous daughter, Savannah. They didn't know what they were really looking at here. All they knew was that a crime had occurred and it appeared to be an abduction. So at 12 p.m., a silver alert was issued.

Starting point is 00:11:09 And by that evening at 1125 p.m., the county sheriff's department issued a reward. It was around $2,500. So this is where things start to get a little crazy and where everybody was. of course, glued to this case, and so everybody's wanting updates in real time as well. But it's where a lot of speculation and rumors came into play. The first being that KOLD News, a CBS affiliate in Tucson, had reported that they had received a letter demanding payment for Nancy's release. I wanted to ask you about this alleged ransom note, though, as well.

Starting point is 00:11:47 And I know that KOLD hasn't reported the exact contents, but you, Mary, have personally seen it yourself. What can you share? I haven't. I think a lot of people were questioning the legitimacy of it, and while they're still looking into the legitimacy of it, they're taking all tips into consideration. We do know there are a few things that we can share as far as what the contents were. A lot of it is information that only someone who is holding her for ransom would know, some very sensitive information and things that people who weren't there when she was taken captive would know. So those are things that are concerning. We immediately sent that information over to the sheriff's department, and they're, of course, looking into the legitimacy of it.

Starting point is 00:12:31 One of the detectives did get back to us and ask us for some more information so that they can start searching for an IP address and things of that nature to try and figure out who or what people are responsible here. And you say an IP address. So obviously this came via email, right? Correct. It did. It came into our newsroom via email.

Starting point is 00:12:53 So then who saw it first and what did the station do? I mean, at what point did you all realize, wow, this might not be a crank. This might be, this might be something. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, it also included a dollar amount to deadline and, again, other specifics that only Guthrie's abductor might know. So that definitely raised some red flags. And our news tips come in directly to the newsroom and our digital team and other employees

Starting point is 00:13:18 have access to that. So they were the ones who flagged it initially when it came in. And when we saw some of those details, it was clear after a couple of sentences that, you know, this might not be a hope. Now, as you heard and everything in that, the reporter says that people were questioning the legitimacy of it, but that the authorities were taking all tips into consideration. And it contained information that only somebody who was holding Nancy and holding her for ransom would possibly know what she was wearing, something from the house, like important details. It also included a dollar amount and a deadline. And they also said that it was clear that after just a couple of sentences, it may not be a hoax, that it may be real.

Starting point is 00:14:00 So on Tuesday, there was another press conference. And in this one, the county sheriff's office spoke again and Chris Nano spoke. And he confirmed that detectives had collected some DNA samples from the home. They confirmed that those samples belonged to Nancy. The sheriff also said that there was evidence in the home that, in the investigator's view, it showed and suggested that Nancy was removed from the home against her will. That again ties back to the blood droplets going outside on the porch over onto the driveway. He repeated that they did not think that she left home by herself on foot.

Starting point is 00:14:35 In other words, she hadn't walked out of their own and they believed that she was forced out, although investigators didn't know yet whether she had walked out under force or if she was carried out. Then, about an hour later after that press conference, TMZ came out and they reported they too had received a ransom note, that it was all connected to Nancy's disappearance. It again said what she was wearing. It had a detail about the home, and the message was sent to TMZ by email. And TMZ, of course, immediately forwarded it to law enforcement. But according to TMZ, the note demanded a huge sum of money, millions of dollars, and that it had to. to be paid in Bitcoin. The ransom letter also included a very specific Bitcoin wallet address,

Starting point is 00:15:21 and that's apparently like where the money is supposed to be sent to. I don't know much about Bitcoin. I know that it is supposed to be, I think, untraceable or harder to trace. Everybody does have like a wallet number where money's exchanged in and out of. So think of it almost like a bank account number. If you're like, transfer a million dollars into this account, that's basically what was going on. But they said to transfer the money via Bitcoin. There also was a deadline. attached to this ransom note, saying, you know, we need this money by 5 p.m. on Thursday or else, adding that like chilling element to it, implying, you know, dire consequences if the payment wasn't made. TMZ also described content from the note that suggested that the sender knew details about Nancy's life and about her home,

Starting point is 00:16:06 including references to what she was wearing that day or wasn't wearing, and things that were said to be damaged inside her home in Tucson. Now, obviously, TMZ couldn't verify whether this note was authentic or not, but what's interesting is that law enforcement wouldn't confirm whether the ransom note was real or a hoax. They wouldn't confirm one way or another. The county sheriff's department issued a public statement acknowledging that they were aware of the reports circulating that there was, you know,

Starting point is 00:16:35 a possible ransom note, and also said that all tips, all leads, are being taken very seriously. But then came another bombshell that night. On Tuesday night, a content creator claimed that a source who was close to the investigation revealed that a family member was listed as a potential person of interest, specifically Savannah's sister Annie's husband. So Savannah's brother-in-law. Now that spread like wildfire. Everybody was talking about it. And then there were pictures that came out showing Annie and her husband, you know, not hiding out, but, like ducking down in their car as they're driving. And I had even mentioned on headline highlights yesterday. I was like, here's what they're saying that he's a possible person of interest or,

Starting point is 00:17:18 as this creator said, a prime suspect, but nothing had been verified. And at that point, too, we didn't know the relationship between Annie and her husband. Were they estranged? Could he have been acting on his own if he was in fact involved? Were they working together on this? Like, is there any validity in any of it? But then on Wednesday, the county sheriff addressed all of the speculation surrounding the case and also the rumors of the family involvement that was circulating all over social media, and he confirmed that no suspect and no person of interest had been identified. He also issued a pretty stern warning saying, sharing any unverified accusations or false information was not only irresponsible, but it, you know,

Starting point is 00:18:02 hurts the investigation. He also confirmed the detectives were working closely with the Guthrie family, and he urged anybody with any information to come forward. However, throughout the day, rumors of the potential family involvement just continued to take flight. I mean, swirling everywhere. Federal agents also were then seen at the home of Annie and her husband. Crime scene tape went back up at Nancy's house.

Starting point is 00:18:31 It looked like they were going in and out with boxes, collecting evidence. It was just a very heavy law enforcement presence that was observed at Nancy's house, and a grid search was also performed, and it just, you know, it fueled the fire. It had everybody talking. So shortly after that,

Starting point is 00:18:48 the community came together for a candlelight vigil. And then in what I think surprised a lot of us is because Savannah had kept quiet, so long into this, so many days into this, the Guthrie family spoke out. And not just Savannah, but alongside her siblings, including Annie, whose husband had been named

Starting point is 00:19:08 at this point as prime suspect number one. And they posted a video on Instagram in response to not only their mother going missing, but the ransom note, what they've learned. And I could easily regurgitate it for you, but I actually just want to play the entire clip for you because I want you to hear their voices. So take a listen. On behalf of our family, we want to thank all of you for the prayers for our beloved mom, Nancy. We feel them and we continue to believe that she feels them too.

Starting point is 00:19:50 Our mom is a kind, faithful, loyal, fiercely loving woman of goodness and light. She is funny, spunky and clever. She has grandchildren that adore her and crowd around her and cover her with kisses. She loves fun and adventure. She is a devoted friend. She is full of kindness and knowledge. Talk to her and you'll see. The light is missing from our lives.

Starting point is 00:20:30 Nancy is our mother. We are her children. She is our beacon. She holds fast to joy in all of life's circumstances. She chooses joy day after day. Despite having already passed through great trials of pain and grief, we are always going to be merely human, just normal human people who need our mom. Mama, if you're listening, we need you to come home. We miss you. mom is our heart and our home. She is 84 years old. Her health, her heart is fragile. She lives in constant pain. She is without any medicine. She needs it to survive. She needs it not to suffer.

Starting point is 00:21:46 We too have heard the reports about a ransom letter in the media. As a family, we are doing everything that we can. We are ready to talk. However, we live in a world where voices and images are easily manipulated. We need to know, without a doubt, that she is alive and that you have her. We want to hear from you, and we are ready to listen. Please reach out to us. Mommy, if you are hearing this, you are a strong woman.

Starting point is 00:22:38 You are God's precious daughter, Nancy. We believe and know that even in this valley, he is with you. Everyone is looking for you, Mommy, everywhere. We will not rest. Your children will not rest until we are together again. We speak to you every moment, and we pray without ceasing, and we rejoice in advance for the day that we hold you in our arms again. We love you, Mom. We love you, Mom.

Starting point is 00:23:21 Stay strong. We love you. Now, look, we don't know what goes on behind the curtains of a family, family secrets, things like that. We don't know. and a lot of people after this video was released, you know, said that Annie's appearance and her being so stoic brushed them the wrong way that they still think that she could be involved or she's protecting her husband.

Starting point is 00:23:45 But what I will say is this, while they were sitting there, clearly distraught and just like grief-stricken, when Annie started speaking, you can see Savannah's hand go under and hold her hand as she's speaking. And look, again, maybe we've seen people in denial, We've seen people not want to believe things. Look at Barry Morphew's daughters who have stood by his side for years. It could very well be if there is some sort of involvement that she doesn't believe it.

Starting point is 00:24:11 She doesn't want to believe it. But in that moment, my point is she's holding her hand sticking by her sister. And I think that that body language wasn't mentioned yet Annie's lack of expression was mentioned. So I just wanted to throw that out there. So that same day, as Savannah's message goes viral on something. social media, as the police say, there is no person of interest, that there, you know, is no prime suspect. The same content creator who first made those allegations doubled down and said, you know what? I understand that, like, because she was receiving quite a bit of backlash for

Starting point is 00:24:48 this after the police said that there was no suspect, but she doubled down and made a really good point saying, look, I've been here before. I think her exact words were like, I've been to this rodeo before saying back on December 19th, 2022, police identified Brian Koberger through the genealogy testing, yet they, the very next day, they too said there's no suspect in the Idaho four murders because the law enforcement doesn't want to play their hand too early, right? They don't want to spook somebody. They don't want to risk and jeopardize them fleeing or them hurting somebody if they are holding somebody captive who is still alive.

Starting point is 00:25:25 And so it's a strategy that law enforcement does. So whether there's any validity to it, we don't know. But she doubled down saying, like, look, we've been here before. I was told by a law enforcement source. So it doesn't mean anything that they're saying that there's no suspect here. They very well could be. So again, you can take that how you want. But I know this content creator.

Starting point is 00:25:47 I know her to be pretty responsible. And I don't think that she would just like flippantly say something unless she felt like she had a credible source tell her that information. And we also know that even after that day, they told Brian, said that Brian Cobra, sorry, after that day when they said they had no suspects, even though they had identified Cobrager. Within days, Brian Cobrager was arrested. So we'll see. So then comes Thursday yesterday, and there was another press conference with the county sheriff alongside the FBI, and they walked through the timeline of all of the events, and they went through a bunch of new details. So let's go through all of those. They confirmed that there was, in fact,

Starting point is 00:26:26 a suspicious vehicle in the area at the time of the abduction. However, they did not share any photos or any description. The sheriff also took this opportunity to double down on his statement from the day before saying there is no known suspect. However, what's interesting is that during the questions from all of the different journalists, he accidentally slipped up a little bit, in my opinion, and he said, look, we just don't have enough to say that this is our guy. But then he quickly said, or our girl. And I'll kind of repeat it to where you get the exact pause. He's like, we just don't have enough to say that this is our guy or our girl. Like, it was just kind of, it felt almost like an unintentional slip. There also was something in the conference. And I wanted to

Starting point is 00:27:10 find the direct quote. It was tough for me to go back and find it. But something that stood out to me as I was listening when they were talking about the ransom note and the publicly from the family, they had said like, you know, Savannah's family is saying, we're ready to talk, as you even heard in that clip. Like, we're ready to talk. Like, what's going on? Let's figure this out. And the sheriff even said something like, let's talk. Let's figure this out in a way that to me, and I could be totally wrong. And look, I'm not saying that the brother is a suspect. I truthfully don't know. But the way that that statement came out, that detail of like, let's figure this out. To me, it sounded like it was an appeal to somebody they know, whether it's a family member or a friend.

Starting point is 00:27:51 because very, I mean, I've never heard in any sort of abduction case or ransom demand. You say, like, we want to talk. What are your demands? Let's listen. But seeing, hearing the detail, like, we'll figure it out. That, the context of that insinuates partnership in a way. And I could totally be over reading this. I'm just saying this is like what caught my attention. But it sounds like, talk to us. We'll figure this out together. You know, you may think it's bad right now. It's not as bad. like just talk to us. We're ready to listen. Let's figure this out together to where it doesn't feel like a stranger. And I totally could be wrong. I probably am wrong, guys. But I at least wanted to mention that because it was something that stood out to me. So now the current reward has also been

Starting point is 00:28:37 raised to $50,000. And they announced that in the press conference as well. The FBI and federal officers from Quantico have also been assigned to the case. And as of now, the alleged abductor or abductors have yet to provide authorities or the family with any sort of proof of life regarding Nancy. And I mentioned at the top of this episode, too, that she was on a daily medication that could be life-threatening. So if she doesn't have that medication, maybe there is no proof of life. And I don't want to be too morbid. But even the sheriff wouldn't answer directly when asked if they were trading this more as a rescue or a recovery. He didn't want to say that.

Starting point is 00:29:14 He just kept reiterating, we believe that Nancy is still out there. Now, if that means they believe she is still out there alive or that she is just, of course, still out there because they haven't recovered her. Who's to say? The FBI then warned of potential issues regarding any videos from the alleged abductors due to AI and people doing these deep fakes and some of the fake ransom notes. They even said that they have made an arrest now in connection with a fake ransom being made. And they're hopeful that with technology, along with the biological evidence that was taken from the scene, that it will help them, the case. Now, the only DNA evidence that they have recovered is the blood that was on the porch, which was sent to a lab. So the FBI special agent confirmed that they do have crisis negotiators in

Starting point is 00:29:59 place and that the family is in fact ready to make negotiations. But there has been no contact with the reported abductors since that initial ransom note had been received by multiple different people. I think I said this earlier, but one of the ransom notes had a deadline of 5 p.m. on Thursday. And there was also a second deadline of Monday, February 9th. The sheriff concluded the press conference by saying that he has absolutely no plans to schedule any further press conferences unless they, quote, have some real evidence or something to bring up. He also added, quote, it's pretty pointless to just keep pounding the same things over and over. And I think that is also why a lot of people are like coming up with all these theories because like there isn't a lot

Starting point is 00:30:42 being shared, but again, it's because you're only a few days into this abduction and they're building the case. And if there wasn't a lot of DNA recovered from the scene except for Nancy's blood, again, those droplets, it could have been a cut. Perhaps there wasn't any sort of struggle because she did know her abductor. Maybe they knocked her out inside. That's what caused the blood and they carried her out. And that's why there's not a struggle. There's just not enough information to know who could have been involved if this was random. Clearly, it was targeted because this person before they even entered the house, ripped off the doorbell camera, it seems. Maybe they entered first and then ripped it off later.

Starting point is 00:31:18 I don't know. But it's unfortunate that they haven't recovered any sort of concrete, solid video surveillance. And based on her age and her condition and her medications, I'm always hopeful for a rescue, but I do think that this will be more of a recovery. I don't know. That's just my opinion. And there have been some theories out there that this is politically, motivated that it's targeted. They targeted Nancy because of Savannah, her daughter, and because of political views. Who knows if there's any truth in any of that? Because others are also suggesting, again,

Starting point is 00:31:53 that it's the brother-in-law and that it's a money play and that, you know, even Annie, her sister is jealous of Savannah. I mean, the theories are just going so wild. So you have to take everything with a grain of salt. But as of now, that's where we're out with this case. I'm going to try to jump on the mic more with you just as we hear updates in this. If there is an update since this recording, I will pin it in the comment section and in the body of the episode description. But the faster way to see these updates in real time is to follow on Instagram. You can follow my personal one at underscore Annie Elise or our true crime one at Serial a sleep pod. And that's where we're going to post everything in real time because I can't always, you know, jump on the mic, record it, get the video out, get it approved, and get it to you.

Starting point is 00:32:38 So let's just continue to keep this family in our thoughts and prayers. let's hope that there are some answers soon. I just cannot imagine and even believe what is happening and what Savannah and her brother and sister must be going through and feeling. That is so terrifying. And a ransom note to know that your mom's been abducted, it's awful. They've already lost their father, as I mentioned. It's just heartbreaking.

Starting point is 00:33:00 So let's continue to try to be positive and keep them in our thoughts and prayers. All right, guys, thank you so much for tuning into today's bonus episode. Don't forget, follow the podcast if you're not already, because I may do these again as we get updates and subscribe to the YouTube channel if you haven't already and you're watching this on YouTube so that you also don't miss those updates. All right, until the next one, be nice, don't kill people, don't abduct anyone, and I don't know, just hug your family. Hug your family.

SERIALously - 363: Savannah Guthrie’s Mom: New Timeline, Ransom Deadline & Possible Motives | Nancy Guthrie Update

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