SERIALously - 394: D4vd Hiding Evidence, Louisiana Family Annihilator & DNA Found in Athena Strand?

Starting point is 00:00:01 Hey, true crime besties, welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialessly. Hello, hello, and welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial-Lessly with your favorite host on the planet, me, Annie. Sorry, guys. Recording a little later than usual today. I've been up for several hours, so I have a lot of energy. But no, welcome back to Serialously. We've got an all-new episode today.

Starting point is 00:00:46 It's Thursday. You know what that means. Headline highlights. We're going to break everything down that is going on in true crime this week. And in case you missed it, I am officially 39 years old. I know, I know, I know, go ahead and wish me a happy birthday. Guys, no, I'm just kidding. I'm 39. I definitely feel it. I feel like in my body, in my joints and just in my all-around aura. So I actually feel more like I'm 39 going on 70. But that's a conversation for a later day. Welcome back to. serialously, Amy, Colette, O'Brien. Thank you. Welcome. Heller. You've never been here before, and I am just delighted. It's so nice to be in studio. I know. I'm delighted to have you here. Heller. I have grass stains. I was just about to say, could you do your laundry before you? Well, I was being the room mom that I am at my son's school and I had to get there today because it's teacher appreciation week. So all the kids like brought long stem flowers.

Starting point is 00:01:51 There was like hundreds and hundreds of flowers. And I was in charge starting at 8 a.m. of assembling a ton of arrangements and then delivering them to all of the teachers. So I wore white because I'm a fucking moron. And I have green stains all over me now. It looks like I've been rolling around in the grass. So did your new skills of flower arranging come in handy? Because I know you've been up on your hobbies this year, which I'm very proud of you.

Starting point is 00:02:17 Mazon flower arranging? I'm trying to lean in to my elderly era and I have to say the thought did cross my mind while I was at the table in front of the school assembling these flower arrangements thinking I had to buy a pair of gardening shears yesterday at Home Depot because you know I don't own those. And I was thinking to myself like, wow, my New Year's resolution of learning how to arrange flowers really would come in handy right now if I had done anything with it. And so, no, but I will say these arrangements slapped. They looked great. So there's that. But yeah, now I have grass stains all over me. But it did kind of get me in the spirit of rewanting to learn how to like arrange flowers and take a class.

Starting point is 00:02:58 Well, I love of arrangement. Just saying. Oh, I thought you said you would want to learn. Well, I would love to learn too. Maybe we can have like what could rhyme like, what's a word that means flowers that starts with an M? like a magical roses and mahjong day or like you know

Starting point is 00:03:18 because I need to teach you mahjong still like a little bit more and I think we could do flower ranging and we could just like make it a really fun time because yeah flowers are kind of a rip-off I just want to bring my stylist a new arrangement on Friday it was like over $50 and it fit in the palm of my hand

Starting point is 00:03:36 I feel personally attacked right now Why? Because it was my birthday. And hold on, everybody, if you're watching the video version of this, you'll see what I'm about to do. What? You're upset that I didn't personally arrange that? What? I'll take credit.

Starting point is 00:03:55 Is this why you feel personally attacked? No. Were they really for your stylist? Or were you drawing back on a personal experience from when you bought me flowers? No, I bought my stylist flowers on Friday. And then I bought you those for your birthday on Monday. And I love them. And that's why now I'm broke after buying all these flowers.

Starting point is 00:04:13 They bring me so much. I would like to just be able to make my own. That's not too much. She's so aggressive on screen. Like, it's just, I think they are. Maybe I'll put them up here. I'm tangled up in the XLR cable. Great.

Starting point is 00:04:25 I'm going to trip and fall and break my hip. Okay, sorry, guys. You're probably like, could you shut up already? I do have some good news for all of you listening. We found our winners for the CrimeCon giveaway. Thank you to all of you who entered over on Patreon, which, remember, it was totally free to to enter. So you snooze, you lose.

Starting point is 00:04:42 Maybe we'll do another one. I don't know. But we did choose our winner who gets the weekend pass two tickets, two weekend passes, one winner. And we have announced it over on Patreon and also in the show notes of today's episode. Now, I have to say, before we get into all of the cases today, have you heard about this hauntavirus breakout? Yes. I just watched a video from someone who's on the cruise ship. Yeah, the guy. Yes. It's giving COVID.

Starting point is 00:05:08 No, it's so is giving COVID. And look, I can appreciate the comment section. more than anyone. That's the whole reason I'm on TikTok. It's not for the videos. It's for the comments. And I have to say, people making light of it, I understand why and the callbacks to COVID. And like, they're trying to find some levity in the situation, which fine, fair. And the comments are funny. I will give them that. But it's feeling like March 2020 again. I didn't read the comments. Oh, everybody's like, oh good. I was hoping to try bangs again or like, like, I'm excited for lockdown. Or like another one was like, bro, I'm finally an adult now. don't do this to me. And like a lot of just like COVID comments are like, I've been waiting for

Starting point is 00:05:46 another lockdown like all of these things. But no, it's really scary. It's obviously changing rapidly. So there probably will be new information by the time this episode releases. But as of the last time I looked, three people have died, seven people have contracted or are symptomatic on the cruise ship. It is a very scary virus that can be passed person to person apparently from this specific strain. and the way they contract it is through rodent feces, through like rats and mice. And I don't know if it's like because you eat their poo or drink their urine or you like eat a rat. I don't know how all of that works. But it's now the virus is active on a cruise ship in the Atlantic Ocean.

Starting point is 00:06:28 They are refusing to allow them to dock. There's approximately I think 149 people on board. And I think when I read there was like people from 23 different countries or something mixed in as well, which it's like that's scary because that could obviously spread pretty quickly. And I was reading, I kind of like went into a dark hole on it last night that it has like a 40% mortality rate. Oh my gosh. And it's like it starts shutting down your organs. It's like it's very scary. I know this poor guy, the video I saw, which might have been the one you saw, he seemed very scared. And I could only imagine being trapped and then you feel so helpless. You can't get off,

Starting point is 00:07:03 which I understand why, but still. Yeah. It's I cannot even imagine how scary that. that must be because, yeah, they're refusing to let them dock, which I understand. They're trying to get the situation under control. But also, I was thinking, like, putting myself in that position last night, I was like, if I was on a cruise ship and I couldn't get off because of this virus and I couldn't see my kids and, like, I was scared that I was going to get the virus and, like, knowing there's a high mortality, like, it's just, I don't know. It's really sad. And after everything that happened over COVID, I mean, you're just thinking back to that and thinking, like, how big, how widespread, how quickly it all happened. And COVID,

Starting point is 00:07:39 I remember because I lived in New York when COVID happened, and it was very small at first. We were hearing like little rumblings about it. I remember we were like thinking, okay, our factory is going to shut down. It like hadn't even really hit the U.S. yet. And it was kind of like this slow burn and then it happened all at once. Whereas this one, it's like 150 people potentially exposed. That could be widespread. So I understand why they're treating it so seriously and like not allowing them to dock.

Starting point is 00:08:05 But right now the health officials are trying to figure out, A, how this exactly happened and how this happened on a cruise ship, a luxury cruise ship, apparently at that. And because like I said, it's usually spread through rats and mice and their feces and their urine. So it's definitely interesting that this type of viral disease is being spread where it is, but it's going to, yeah, I don't know what else is going to have. I mean, if there's already been three deaths on the ship, that's fast and that's wild. What would scare me is I just remember in the early days of COVID. Nobody really knew what was going on. And so I'm sure people are learning in real time, like the effect of this and how quickly it spreads. And you're sitting on a cruise ship with all

Starting point is 00:08:47 the circulated air. Like, I would just want to sit outside. But they're probably making you stay in your cabin, which is even worse. Like, imagine. And remember our brother actually during COVID, he tested pot. He was away for a wedding. Where was he not? St. Lucia. St. Lucia. That was when you had to test positive or negative in and out of different countries before you could fly or when you landed. And when he was leaving after being at that wedding, and it was like well into COVID. It was like almost a year in or something like that. So people were traveling again. He tested positive. And they kept in there for 10 days, right, for quarantine. And they kept him in a hotel room, which is like that's bigger than a cruise ship cabin. But I remember he was starting to go a little

Starting point is 00:09:24 nutty as well. Because he had no access to the outdoors. Yeah, no fresh air. The food you get, I think he couldn't order room service or anything. Wasn't it. Like they drop- Like a set menu. Yeah, they drop off food at your door or something every day. And then, yeah, it's just, oh, I feel for those people. So we'll see what happens. And what's interesting, as I was reading it yesterday, too, trying to research more about the virus itself. Remember, gosh, it must have been a year ago now, Gene Hackman and his wife who died.

Starting point is 00:09:53 Yes. She died from that virus. Oh, wow. So, and remember their house was like in a lot of disarray and there were a lot of animals and things. and she apparently, it's like a respiratory thing, I believe, and she died from that. And so people are like not making any sort of connection, but obviously like it's something that we... That's interesting.

Starting point is 00:10:10 ...heard about but never really knew what that meant. And now it's out there. I don't know. It's definitely scary. So we will keep an eye on that and let you guys know, I guess... Hopefully this is the only... I know. Hopefully at this point, at the time of this release, they are docked, they are tested, they are getting

Starting point is 00:10:29 whatever I don't even know. Care. if, yeah, I don't know if you get like, I mean, it's not like a rabies shot. Obviously, it's not rabies. But like, I wonder if there is anything to combat it. I don't know. So let's move into another rat of discussion. David, David, Anthony Burke or David loser for VD.

Starting point is 00:10:47 Because we have another major update in this case. And look, most of our updates have lived primarily here on the headline highlight segment. I might end up compiling everything or doing a fresh deep dive for you just so that we can have it all in one place. I'm not sure yet, but we do have some major updates that have given us more insight into what the prosecution is laying out as far as a timeline, especially when it comes to the special circumstance charged that they had for lying in wait. Because this week, prosecutors filed a very detailed brief, and when you actually look at what they're alleging, the way that they're saying all of this was planned, it keeps making this case worse and worse. Now, as we know from the charges that David

Starting point is 00:11:28 is facing, prosecutors do believe that this was all premeditated, that he lured Celeste over to his house, that this was planned, and that it was because he wanted to shut her up because he didn't want to lose his celebrity, his money, his fame. But now they are laying out a very specific sequence to try and prove exactly that. So let's start with what they say happened right before Celeste was murdered. According to reports, prosecutors say that there was a major argument that happened on April 22nd, 2025 between David and Celeste. And apparently this was all documented in text messages. During that argument, Celeste was allegedly jealous or upset that David was talking to other girls and having other relationships, which really comes as no surprise to any

Starting point is 00:12:14 of us. We know he's a dog. We know he's a dirtbag. We know he's a child predator. So, but obviously she's young. She probably thought that they were in love and they were soulmates. And this made her very upset. And she was actually so upset about this that she threatened to expose their relationship. In a direct quote in these text messages, she threatened to end his career and destroy his life. Which we have already heard about this being talked about a little bit in the past few weeks as far as motive, right? And now, though, we actually have the court documents as part of the timeline and the evidence. And we also have a little bit more context. Now, prosecutors are saying that this was not just a fight, that this was actually a turning point for David. They believe that David knew that

Starting point is 00:12:59 at that point she was possibly, or probably, going to tell someone, and that everything could come out and that it would absolutely completely destroy his life and his career. Just like she said, he would go to jail, he would go to prison, he would lose his celebrity, he wouldn't go on tour anymore, he would be marked as a petto in jail and probably be attacked over and over. I mean, it would be his worst nightmare come true, which also then, you know, I will say, don't touch little kids then. So this is where the special circumstance of lying in wait comes into play. Because prosecutors say that the day after the argument, on April 23rd, David arranged for Celeste to come to his house. He even ordered her an Uber to get there.

Starting point is 00:13:43 So she arrived at his house around 10.10 p.m. And then, about 20 minutes later, he allegedly texted her asking where she was. But prosecutors are saying that at this point, she not only was already at the house, and they have that from the digital footprint of the Uber and the drop-off and all of that, but they're saying she was already dead at that point within 20 minutes of arriving. And it also shows calculation and premeditation and him putting together this thoughtful plan because he's making this fake text message to her asking where she is, right? So now they're saying, obviously, that the message, the phone calls, that other text messages, messages that followed for a few days after that were, of course, all part of this orchestrated

Starting point is 00:14:25 planned effort to make it look like she never showed up to his house at all. So right there, they're not just saying that he outright killed her, but they're saying that he was actively staging a cover story in real time. And then when you start to move into what they say happened after all of that, it gets even more calculated. Because according to the filing, in the days following Celeste's death, David stopped trying to reach out to Celeste at all. This was after April 26th. So they fight on the 22nd. He allegedly murders her on the 23rd. He sends a few follow-up texts and phone calls for three days after that. And then after the 26th, he goes radio silent. And at that point, he started ordering items online under a fake name. Having those items

Starting point is 00:15:08 delivered, though, to his house, which if you're going to use a fake name, maybe get a fake address too, my man. I don't know. Doesn't really seem very smart. So the timeline they laid out is very specific. On April 24th, he ordered a shovel. Then on May 1st, he ordered two chainsaws. On May 5th, he ordered a body bag. He also ordered heavy-duty bags and a blue inflatable pool. Then later, as we know, when they had found it on the property, he had ordered that burn cage, which we had talked about.

Starting point is 00:15:37 It's basically like a makeshift crematorium. It gets up to thousands and thousands of degrees, which nobody would need something like that on their property, unless you're trying to dispose of a body. So the picture being painted is obviously a very dark one. Because as we know, Celeste's body was dismembered. We now have him with a digital footprint of buying chainsaws, a shovel, a body bag, all under this fake name after she was killed.

Starting point is 00:16:03 And then you have the inflatable pool, which that's what a lot of people are actually really stuck on right now, because the court documents allege that this inflatable pool had been used during when David was dismembering her body so that it would hold the blood. It would catch the blood so that there wouldn't be spillover either into the ground, into his carpet, on the flooring wherever he was at in the bathroom so that it would conceal and contain the evidence and the DNA. They also say that the chainsaws he ordered days earlier were also used in that process, which what kind of psychopath freak gets an inflatable pool uses a chainsaw to dismember a 14-year-old

Starting point is 00:16:42 little girl. Like, that is evil. And according to Celeste's autopsy, there were, in fact, very small blue plastic fragments that were embedded in her remains, which shows, you know, not to get too graphic, but if the chainsaw goes too deep and it cuts into the plastic inflatable pool, and then he goes back upward and it gets into her skin. It's just, there's proof of what he did. And an expert allegedly even matched those fragments right back to that inflatable pool. The pool itself was found in David's garage, and it reportedly had mold. multiple cuts in it. So really, I mean, this isn't just a theory. They're pointing to actual physical evidence to back all of this up. So now, when you zoom out and you look at how the prosecutors are

Starting point is 00:17:23 laying this out, it's very, very clear what they are building toward. And that timeline is exactly what they're using to support that whole lying in weight charge. Because in their view, this wasn't something that spiral. This wasn't at an accident, or, you know, this wasn't a crime of passion. This wasn't an accidental overdose. This wasn't him then panicking and trying to conceal the body, this was something that he set up, waited for, and carried out. But even after that, it didn't stop there. Because while all of this stuff was happening, David was also making mysterious trips to Santa Barbara, which that's a few hours away from L.A., trips that the prosecutors believe he made as a method to get rid of evidence. So far, what we know is that

Starting point is 00:18:05 David took these trips to Santa Barbara three times, which the first one was about an hour and a half after Celeste was murdered, then again, almost two weeks later on May 8th, and then again on May 31st. Now, it's not said exactly what David was getting rid of during these trips, but I will say this. Celeste's passport was found by a California Department of Transportation worker on the side of the highway in Santa Barbara in January of this year. So could he have been throwing her passport out? Was he trying to bury things at first? Was he then get paris? Did he then get paranoid and that's why he landed on disposing of her in the Tesla. Who really knows? And to be clear, these are all just allegations at this point. These are being laid out by the state.

Starting point is 00:18:49 Nothing has been proven in a court of law. Nothing's been adjudicated. None of that. But the defense, meanwhile, is sticking with their story that David is innocent, that he didn't have anything to do with Celeste's murder. But this hearing and this filing, it's the first time that we're seeing all of these pieces connected in one place. And if this case is, the case that they're bringing to trial, it's going to be a major one to watch, right? And we're going to see more, like, as it moves forward, because I think there's a hearing coming up soon where they're going to decide if there is enough evidence to move forward to trial or something like that. But another detail, which I was going to mention, but I haven't been able to vet it entirely,

Starting point is 00:19:27 but I have seen some rumblings on social media about it, is that within, I think it was, gosh, 24 or 48 hours after Celeste being murdered, David went back out on tour and he was wearing her sweatshirt on stage. And some people even said, like, some of the voiceovers and the songs were audio voice recordings from Celeste that she had sent him, things like that. Which, again, I haven't been able to vet that, which is why I haven't wanted to really speak on it in a big way. But if that is true, what a fucking psychopath, honestly.

Starting point is 00:20:00 So there's no doubt in my mind. This is going to trial. He's going to be found guilty. He's going to be locked up, not a doubt in my mind. But then again, I have. been surprised Casey Anthony. So hopefully it's not that, but we will see. I have two major thoughts.

Starting point is 00:20:18 The first one is for how premeditated this appears to be or like planned out on his way to try to cover this, he did a really piss poor job. So like what was your real plan? Are you a complete fucking idiot? Yeah. And then secondly, for how much went into this and how much is coming back to him allegedly. I can't believe it took this long. I think it's because they wanted a slam dunk case. And I think part of it was it took a long time to figure out cause and manner of

Starting point is 00:20:50 death with Celeste. And you can't make the murder charges stick until you have that usually. But I mean, who knows? I could be wrong. I feel like this evidence is so compelling. I know. Yeah. I think it's going to be a slam dunk case. But I mean, again, we will see. Now, I know there's a case that you have been following for weeks and that you want to talk about. And it happened a few weeks ago, guys, but the reason we haven't covered it until now is because there are so many details. And it's one that every case is important that we get it right. But this one especially is important that we like vetted the details, got all the research. And so Amy's been working on it for a while to just like, you know, gather all of the information.

Starting point is 00:21:25 So, but we do have it and we do want to talk with you about it. Yes. And a lot of people have been asking about it, as Annie said. And it's one where as you're reading the details, it just keeps getting worse and worse. doesn't feel real. Because what happened in Shreveport, Louisiana on April 19th, wasn't just a mass shooting. It was a family annihilation and it unfolded in just a matter of minutes. It was early in the morning just before 6 a.m. when the first 911 call came in. A woman named Keosha called saying that someone had been shot, that she was on the roof, and the person with the gun was still inside. But at that point, no one knew just how big this was about to become. Kiyosha went on to say that nine people were living in the

Starting point is 00:22:07 house. And as the dispatcher kept asking questions, Keosha said that her brother-in-law had come in and shot everyone inside. And as police were arriving to that house, another call came in. Another woman named Christina had called to report that her boyfriend had shot her in the face, taken her three kids, and left. And within less than two minutes of arriving on the scene of that first call and talking with Christina on that second call, police pieced together that these two crime scenes were connected and identified the shooter as 31-year-old Shemar Elkins. Now, police say that all of this started at Christina's house, and we don't know exactly what set him off at that house,

Starting point is 00:22:47 but he did shoot Christina. And after doing that, he didn't stay there. He left, taking the kids with him, and drove to that second house, the same house where Kiyosha had been on the roof. The house was quiet, most of the children inside had been asleep, and in what investigators believe was a very short window of time, he went room to room and eight children were shot and killed. Seven of those children were his own and the eighth was his nephew.

Starting point is 00:23:12 The victims were all incredibly young, ranging from about three to 11 years old. So just take a second and let that sink in. Because in just a matter of a few minutes, while Kyosha was on the roof, on the phone trying to explain what was happening, this had already all taken place inside. But then he left. after everything that had happened inside that house, Shamar left again. He stole a vehicle and started driving trying to get away from the area. But at that point, officers already knew who he was and what he had done, and they were

Starting point is 00:23:46 actively looking for him. So this quickly turned into a chase. Law enforcement tracked him into a nearby area, and eventually they caught up to him. And there was a confrontation, and that's where everything ended. Shamar died at the scene, and depending on the report, it isn't entirely clear whether that was from police gunfire or if it was self-inflicted. But either way, he never faced charges for what happened that morning. So now when you zoom out and look at what may have led up to this,

Starting point is 00:24:14 investigators say this all appear to be rooted in a domestic situation. Shamar and Christina were in the middle of separating, and they were actually scheduled to be in court the very next day. And people close to him say that he had been struggling emotionally as that relationship was falling apart. But still, that doesn't make sense, because when you look at the timeline, this wasn't something that spiraled over the course of hours. This was fast and it was deliberate and targeted entirely at his own family.

Starting point is 00:24:42 Eight children gone in the matter of minutes. So since then, investigators started digging into how Shamar even got that gun in the first place. And that is what actually led to an arrest. A 56-year-old man named Charles Ford was taken into custody just days later, facing federal charges tied to that weapon. He's now charged with being a felon in possession of a firearm and for lying to federal agents. And when you start looking at that piece of it, it gets very complicated because it turns out that gun did not belong to Shamar. It didn't actually belong to trials either.

Starting point is 00:25:15 According to investigators, it had been passed to Charles by someone else and he wasn't even legally allowed to have it in the first place because of a prior felony conviction. And at some point in the days following the shooting, Charles told investigators that gun had been stored in his train. and that he believed Shemar took it from the truck weeks before the shooting. He even suspected that it was him at the time and reportedly even confronted him about it, but then decided to just let it go. And that right there is what investigators are now zeroing in on. Because while Ford didn't carry out the shooting, prosecutors are arguing that the gun was already being possessed illegally. It wasn't properly reported missing. And when law enforcement started asking questions, he didn't initially tell the truth. So now, even though the shooter is,

Starting point is 00:26:00 is dead, there are still charges being filed, focused on how that weapon ended up in Shemar's hands. So when you step back and take a look at the full picture, it certainly does raise a bigger question because it wasn't just one failure point in this situation. It was a chain of events. So even after everything happened that morning, the investigation is still unfolding, trying to piece together not only how this all happened, but how it was even possible. because again, this wasn't random. This was a father, this was his children, multiple homes, and a timeline that moved incredibly fast and a community that's now left trying to understand something that honestly just doesn't

Starting point is 00:26:40 feel like it has much of an explanation at all. And unfortunately, that's something we may never know now that the shooter is dead and is no longer alive. I read, I remember when this first happened, I had read different things out there, not that this excuses anything, that he was suffering from. PTSD and that he may have served in the military or something. I read that too. Yeah, which again, that doesn't necessarily, I mean, look, I actually am not one to speak on that.

Starting point is 00:27:06 I would imagine that doesn't mean that somebody suffers so badly. They annihilate their entire family, but maybe it does. Obviously, I've never been in any situation like that. But whatever the reason, whatever the motive, whatever his thought process was, I mean, it doesn't change the fact that there are eight children, young, young children. and just gone within a matter of minutes. And the only silver lining, I will say, because I try to always find some sort of silver lining,

Starting point is 00:27:35 is that there aren't any kids who are going, right? There aren't any kids who survive that will have to grow up up without their siblings or their family members. There's the mothers. Yes, which I can't even imagine what they're dealing with. Well, that's where I was a little bit, because I was thinking if it's a domestic dispute, I know that oftentimes men will go after the children because they know that's going to ultimately hurt the woman.

Starting point is 00:28:01 But I know he shot the first woman in the face. So I don't know if his intention was to kill her as well. And then maybe Kiyosha just escaped and was able to get out, you know, by the grace of God versus him intentionally allowing them to survive. I mean, the poor women, I personally, like, I mean, it's a horrible situation. if my kids were killed, I'd rather be dead. Like, I couldn't imagine going on. And that's why, like, I think through to, like, Tristan Bailey's mom, to Kaylee Gonzalez's mom, Maddie's mom.

Starting point is 00:28:36 Like, I don't even know how you physically can go on and find the strength to do that. But again, like, I would try to at least not have the peace, but know that the kids were all together. And how do you explain that to a two-year-old or three-year-old that your siblings aren't coming back? I don't know. And the nephew, I don't know if the nephew had siblings. Right.

Starting point is 00:28:57 And hopefully those two poor women can find comfort in each other. I know. But I can't imagine. And now not having any answers. No. And being those investigators who got both of those calls. And I mean, that just happened so fast and it piece it all together. The whole, I mean, there is no self-relining.

Starting point is 00:29:14 This whole thing is just awful. It is such a tragedy. And we'll see what other information comes out if he left any sort of documentation. behind if he can fight it in anybody leading up to it. And like, not that knowing a motive will make it any easier to understand because I don't think there is any logic here. But they said, I mean, it just emotionally distraught over the relationship ending that court date coming. So, oh my God, I have the chills. It's that is just, it's heartbreaking. This episode is sponsored by Better Help. May is Mental Health Awareness Month. And it is such an

Starting point is 00:29:57 important reminder that whatever you're carrying right now, you don't have to carry it alone. Life comes in waves. Some days feel manageable, but other days can feel overwhelming, especially when everything starts stacking up and you feel like you're just left to figure it out all on your own. But the truth is, no one has all the answers. And having someone there to listen, to understand, and to help guide you through all of it, it really can make all the difference. That's why I want to share better help. They have over 30,000 licensed therapist and they make it incredibly easy to get matched based on your needs and your preferences. And if it's not the right fit for whatever reason, you can switch therapists at any time.

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Starting point is 00:32:21 slash A-E. Okay, guys, you know I do not gatekeep. I don't believe in it. And so I have to tell you about salt and stone because this is one of those products that once you start using it, you will get compliments almost immediately. And I'm talking constantly. Now, chances are you've probably seen salt and stone somewhere in your journey of life, whether at, I don't know, possibly your friend's house, a hotel. Their branding looks so good. It looks like high-end luxury hotel branding, like very minimalistic, the clean text, something that you would actually want to have on your countertop or out in the open. And I have been using their Sontal body wash for as long as I can remember, it smells so good. You know that feeling when you go to like a spa and you're getting a massage and you're like, I wish I could just smell like this forever, but you never can replicate it. You can with salt and stone. And I used to be on a journey trying to always like chase that smell. I even put eucalyptus sleeves in my shower one time, like hung them from the showerhead. Don't ask. But anyways, my point is I have been using their Sontel body wash for a long time and they also have deodorant, which I just discovered. They have deodorant, body wash,

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Starting point is 00:34:07 is Sontal. They use really high quality nutrient-rich ingredients and their deodorant is aluminum-free with 48-hour protection, which is huge. So like I said, it's just one of those brands that makes you feel not only more confident but more elevated, very polished, very like five-star resort-e and you don't have to try too hard. Try Salt and Stone's Discovery Set to find your signature scent. Go to Saltandstone.com slash A.E and use code A.E at checkout for 15% off your first order. That's Salt and Stone.com slash A.E. And use code A.E. for 15% off your first order. Okay. So now I want to catch all of you up on what's been coming out this past week in the trial of Tanner Horner. Also otherwise known as,

Starting point is 00:35:00 the biggest douche canoe on the planet, the most evil psychopath on the planet, and just scum of the earth subhuman loser, gutter, troll. Because this is where now things are starting to feel not only off, but even more concerning than what we already knew about this case. Not because the case itself has changed, but because new details are now coming out that are just awful. Now, for those of you who aren't familiar with this case, it's the case of Athena Strand, a beautiful. A beautiful. young, seven-year-old little girl who was abducted by the FedEx driver who was dropping off a Christmas gift at her house one morning. And this trial has been going viral. I would imagine you probably have seen it somewhere on your feed. The audio, the video from the truck,

Starting point is 00:35:46 what he said to her, the whole thing is just awful. And it's everybody's worst nightmare. Every parent's worst nightmare, too. And I did release last week a deep dive on the case, giving you all of the background, because I first covered this when it happened, in 2022. We spoke to neighbors. We had a little bit clear of an understanding of Tanner's background and allegations that had previously been made against him by other women. So that deep dive was released last Tuesday, but not on this feed on my 10 to Life feed. So I will link it in the show notes for you that episode. But if you want to get familiar with the case, because you're not super familiar, definitely go listen to that. But you probably again have seen the trial on your feed

Starting point is 00:36:28 somewhere. So that is the case that we're talking about. Usually people call, you know, say Athena's strand's name at the beginning of it. And I know I led with Tanner's name, but that is the case. So anyways, in regards to the trial, there are a few specific moments that people keep asking about. So I want to walk through them. So first, this came out during testimony that was tied to the mental health evaluation of Tanner that they had had done. During that evaluation, Tanner described what he did to Athena in a way where he compared it to, quote, making a deal with the devil. Not in a literal sense, but the forensic psychiatrist who talked about this, Dr. Eileen Ryan, said that, quote, in his mind, he believed that by taking Athena's life, he was saving

Starting point is 00:37:13 his own life and his own career, which I know hearing that, you're probably like, uh, what? What is this guy even talking about and how can he even like mentally think that? So in court, it was framed more as how he tried to explain or justify what he did, almost like trying to make it make sense in a way where it distances himself from it, which we saw some of this early on with his story of his alter ego, zero is who he called him. So now we're seeing it again with this like deal with the devil that he, you know, this deal he made with the devil detail that he's saying. Now another thing that came out during this part of the trial is that Tanner admitted to using co-consum. cocaine that day. And in his version of events, he did it while Athena was in the FedEx truck, but, according to him, before he killed her. He says that Athena seeing all of that is actually what triggered everything, as though it's her fault that she was abducted, her fault that she witnessed him doing Coke, that now he had no choice but to, you know, attack her and kill her, like, get real. In his mind, though, he said that if he let her go, she could tell someone,

Starting point is 00:38:20 and his life would be over. So that is when his apparent fear started spiraling. Which again, yeah, your life might be over, but so you say what? It's either her life or my life? Like, come on. Then we also found out that on top of doing cocaine, while Athena was in the truck, scared, watching him, asking where her mom was, he also did more in the middle of everything that he was doing to her.

Starting point is 00:38:46 Which I'm not going to go into details about what he was doing to her. You either know from the deep dive or from watching the trial yourself. I don't think we necessarily need to repeat it, especially because of how really graphic all of it played out. But when it came time to show all of this and play the audio, play the video during the trial, the cross-examination was very, very difficult. And it certainly did not look good for the defense because, I mean, the audio of this creep and what he was doing and the things he was saying, it was just awful.

Starting point is 00:39:16 And with that brings us to the other thing that we... need to talk about, which I know a lot of people have been asking about and mentioning, and it's the DNA. Very early on, it was said that there was no physical proof that Athena had been sexually assaulted and that there was no, I don't want to say the exact phrase, like something about physical trauma or indications, something like that. But now this piece of information is something that people are really locked in on right now. Because during cross-examination this past week, while Dr. Eileen Ryan was on the stand, the prosecution brought up that there had been, in fact,

Starting point is 00:39:53 male DNA found inside Athena. And the way that the prosecution presented this, it really jolted Dr. Ryan and stopped her in her tracks, which listened to this and watch this if you're watching the video version. Dean, did you read the DNA reports in this case? I know there was DNA. Right? And you know where it was found.

Starting point is 00:40:17 Athena, right? Not in Athena. I'm not aware that there was any DNA found in Athena. You didn't read that they found DNA, both in her vagina and her Ames? No, I did not. So in that moment, at least to me, and I'm sure a lot of you watching and listening, it became very clear that this wasn't even something that she knew about, let alone something that she factored into her evaluation of Tanner. She's now learning it and hearing about it. And the prosecution, you that to suggest that her evaluation may not be complete. It's probably incomplete. She didn't have the whole story. She didn't have all of the details. So her evaluation may have relied too much on what Tanner told her instead of the actual full accurate picture. Which again, I want to be very careful

Starting point is 00:41:05 with what I say is confirmed versus not confirmed. Because again, there was no physical indication that they had said early on, which that very well could have been to preserve Athena's memory and we obviously don't need to know all the graphic things that were done. We do know that he already had instructed her to take off her shirt and said that she was beautiful and that this was sexually motivated. Now hearing that there was DNA found, it feels as though it was sexually motivated. Not to say though, and again, not trying to get too graphic here with the what ifs, but it could be something that he did post-mortem and DNA still ended up on her or inside of her. So I just don't want to say outright because I don't have enough knowledge or information to say outright that she was

Starting point is 00:41:48 sexually assaulted and I would hate to put that out there if that's not true. So I just want to talk about the DNA comment that they found it in her and like what that could potentially mean. So anyway, the trial finally came to a close this week and let me tell you, closing arguments were incredibly tense. The state made their closing argument very easily, even with a short recess halfway through because a juror needed a break because it was so challenging. But when it came to the defense, that was a different story. Because right at the start of their closing arguments, the defense attorney that spoke first took the poster down that is in the courtroom of Athena. It had been in the courtroom all four weeks of this trial and now they took it down, which that obviously did not go over well with people

Starting point is 00:42:34 who were watching or the jury. Reports say that there were even a couple of jurors who wouldn't even look at the attorneys as they spoke after doing that, which I think that that says a lot. During all of this, too, Tanner's attorney tried to argue that Tanner did not receive a fair trial and that the judge should remove the death penalty from the table because of all the media attention, the death threats that Tanner's received, and that this just has not been fair because of how polarizing this case has been, which here's what I have to say. There is no other option but death in my opinion, personally. And I know a lot of people are indifferent to the death penalty, and that's absolutely fine. Everybody has their own individual, you know, opinion on it. That's my opinion. There is no other

Starting point is 00:43:16 option but death for me. And so the closing arguments were done, and then it was given to the jury to decide what happens. And you know what? It looks like the jury agreed with me because Tanner was sentenced to death. It took the jury literally less than like a couple of hours after they had requested for the footage from inside the truck, some of the body. cam footage, the interview footage, they came back, he will be sentenced to death by lethal injection. And I, for one, couldn't be happier. This is just the worst case that I have heard about in a very long time. And I have tried to steer clear of a lot of cases involving children. They just are continuously getting more and more

Starting point is 00:43:56 difficult for me to cover because of my own kids. And like, you know, it's just, it's tough for me. This is one that I think it's going to stick with a lot of people for a very long time. the innocence of this little girl just playing outside, her Barbie is being dropped off for Christmas, this guy, and like what he said to her, what was unrecorded. It's just he is such a monster. Well, I think it just hits very close to home because in a world where we, Amazon, ship everything for convenience, it's like you think twice now of, you know, you see your kids and they're out in the front yard or they're waiting and it just, I think it's made everybody. a little bit more alert. I agree. I agree. It's incredibly sad. Okay, so this next case is coming out of Alice Springs

Starting point is 00:44:43 in Central Australia, and it's one of those that escalated very quickly in the absolute worst possible way. It all started late on April 25th, and a five-year-old little girl who is now being referred to as Kumongi little baby at her family's request. You may have also heard of her referred to as Sharon, was home with her family in a town camp known as Old Timers Camp. She'd been put to bed around 11.30 p.m. that night, and everything seemed normal. Which if you don't know what a town camp is, it's like a very small, tight-knit neighborhood at the edge of town, and it's common for big extended families to live in a town camp together. It's almost like a family compound.

Starting point is 00:45:27 So this little girl went to bed around 11.30, but then just a couple hours later, around 1.30, in the morning, her family went to check on her and she was gone. And almost immediately, this raised alarm bells because this is a place that a child could wander off and not easily be located since it's near the Todd River. And it was noticed by investigators that the doors and fly screen were left open when they came to the house. But police quickly started treating this as suspicious and very possibly even an abduction. And the reason for that was because there was already someone on their radar. A 47-year-old man named Jefferson Lewis had been staying at the home and was believed to be one of the last people there when she disappeared. And he wasn't a family member.

Starting point is 00:46:13 He was just someone visiting and staying with the family. And at one point, witnesses reported seeing him holding her hand and leading her away that night. So now you have this missing five-year-old girl in the middle of the night with a potential suspect already identified. And the search? It was massive. You could imagine hundreds of people, police, volunteers, trackers, search teams were all out there combing through the desert, the bush, everywhere. Drones, helicopters, dogs, all of it. The entire community went looking for her, holding on to hope that she would be found alive. But as the days went on, that hope started to fade. Police eventually started talking about a time frame of survivability becoming concern around the third day of the search, which when you hear, hear that you already have an idea of where this might be heading. And then on April 30th,

Starting point is 00:47:06 about five days after she went missing, everything changed. Her body was found. It was discovered roughly five kilometers from her home in a remote area outside of the camp. And just like that, this became a homicide investigation. And after her body was found, things moved quickly. Police located Jefferson later that day and took him into custody. He was transported to a local hospital for treatment of injuries because locals in the town camp beat him before police found him, understandably, and then formally arrested and charged him with murder along with two counts of sexual assault. And something else that's really important here is that Jefferson had just been released from prison only six days before this happened. He reportedly

Starting point is 00:47:55 served an 18-month sentence after pleading guilty to aggravated assault, plus another three months for resisting police. And this wasn't the first time that he had been to prison, because over the past 10 years, he had spent over five years of that in and out of prison for separate, serious, violence-related offenses. And that has become a huge point of conversation. Not just about this case, but about broader system failures, safety concerns, and how something like this could even happen. And all of the aftermath of this has been insane. After his arrest, tensions, in the community boiled over, as you could imagine. Crowds gathered outside of the hospital where he was taken,

Starting point is 00:48:37 police were called in, and there were even reports of riots and arrests as people demanded justice, which you can see here in this video. These were the scenes outside Alice Springs Hospital. Inside is Jefferson Lewis, the man arrested over the alleged murder of the five-year-old girl who her family wished to remember as Kumunjai little baby. Protesters demanding police hand the accused over to be dealt with by the community.

Starting point is 00:49:10 Locals say Lewis was beaten before police arrested him in Charles Creek, bringing to an end one of the Northern Territory's biggest man hunts. And I'll say to Jefferson Lewis, we're coming for you. Because this case, it hit hard. A five-year-old little girl taken from her bed, in the middle of the night, a massive search effort, and then just days later, the absolute worst possible outcome. And right now, this case is still unfolding. And like many of these cases, there are still a lot of unanswered questions,

Starting point is 00:49:42 even though he has formally been charged. Because we don't know what happened in those hours after she was taken. And we still don't exactly know the why. I'll tell you the why. Because he's a predator. Well, yes. And then I was curious. So why he obviously was trusted by the family.

Starting point is 00:50:01 why are they allowing him to live or stay in their home and then in this close township? I wonder if they know his background and know all of that. I mean, I would imagine they, or maybe he had been released six days earlier. Maybe he's like, I've nowhere to go or something. Who knows? But here's my fucking problem with all this, especially here in California too. They are releasing child predators. Once they hit, I think it's 60 years old or like 63 years old or whatever.

Starting point is 00:50:26 It's like they consider that they, because their age, they're no longer a risk to society. I know this guy's 47 years old, but here's the problem. And we've talked about this with defense attorneys, psychologists, you name it. It's not about mobility or the sex act itself. It's something that is programmed in their mind. So you don't age out of being a peto. You don't age out of being a predator. So the fact that they're now saying and arguing, and this again is a broader issue, but also specifically to California, the fact that they're saying, oh, it's overcrowding. we need to release people, so we're going to release these elder, like, which they're not even elderly. Hello, I know 60-year-olds who are in better shape than I am, you know, truthfully, honestly.

Starting point is 00:51:10 So it's like, but they're going to age out, but they're not a risk. This is a perfect example that this was a reoffender. This is somebody who went in and out of the system. And it is something that is programmed in their mind that you, even castration doesn't help. Because again, it's not about the physical act and it's not about the release. It's about the power. It's about the control. It's about the desire. And that does not change. So like this infuriates me for that. I hate California for that.

Starting point is 00:51:37 Like it's just such a bigger problem. Well, and if you are going to make the decision to take a risk of housing somebody that has an extremely violent past, take that on for yourself. Right. But you do not put your own child. No. And I mean, I don't want to shame the parents because I guess I don't know the exact scenario. Right. We don't know the situation. And for them, I'm sure, obviously this is devastating.

Starting point is 00:52:01 They've lost a daughter, but also a very trusted person to them has done this. But how trusted was he? And again, we don't know. And I know we're going to learn more. But like, how well did they know him? He had just been released six days earlier. Did they have history with him in the past? I mean, it sounds like the township was a close-knit group already.

Starting point is 00:52:22 And then to be allowing some, so maybe it's kind of like an understanding in the community that when people like fall on hard times, you take them in. Or like, I have a bed until you figure it out. I don't know. But this infuriates me. And again, how people are letting child predators back on the street, it will, I will never understand it. Absolutely. I will never understand it.

Starting point is 00:52:46 And I will never be okay with it. Speaking of weird cases and this kind of, you know, adjacent, have you seen the new Netflix docuseries? should I marry a murderer? No. I need you to watch it. Okay. I have so many thoughts. And if you guys have watched this at home, let me know in the comment section.

Starting point is 00:53:06 I have a lot of thoughts. And I think I have a couple hot takes as well. I need you to. It's a series? It's your homework. Okay. It's three episodes. Easy watch.

Starting point is 00:53:16 It's in Scotland. I'm going to be curious if you have the same opinion I have. Okay. But we will recap next week on headline highlights. And this is homework for all of you. at home listening or watching. I want you to watch it as well. And then we can get the whole class together next Thursday. And I will be the teacher and I will be conducted. I will share my thesis on this docu-series and my thoughts and my hot takes. I love an Annie Elise hot take. Some people don't.

Starting point is 00:53:44 Because sometimes it's a little too hot. It's a little sizzling. It's a little hot in here. It's a little, it's getting hot in here. So don't take off all your clothes. We love somebody who can sense. It's not that kind of show. It is not that kind of show. Um, okay, that's it for headline highlights. Make sure to check if you are the winner of the CrimeCon giveaway. It's in the show notes also announced on Patreon. This week put out, we put out it. I can't talk.

Starting point is 00:54:08 This week I also released two episodes. You can go binge in the feed if you need more content now that the week's over and your favorite podcasters aren't putting content out. I have. So you can go listen. There's one on this feed from Monday. It's a full deep dive into a cold case, actually, that has some really shady CCTV. footage. Then on the 10 to Life feed, a case about a 17-year-old, and something happened to her while she was sleeping next to her baby. It's very eerie, a wild one. And spoiler alert, there will be a

Starting point is 00:54:42 bonus episode tomorrow on this feed and on YouTube. So if you are not subscribed on YouTube, press the subscribe button so that you don't miss the bonus episode. It's outside of the normal release schedule. And if you're listening to this, make sure you find the little follow button on Apple or Spotify or whatever you're listening on and follow because I've got a new episode coming at you first thing tomorrow morning a deep dive into a case that we have been talking about. You made me think of something when you said listening when your other podcasters don't have anything on. Would you ever do a weekend episode? I probably would. It would just depend. That's when I need new content. I know. I fight with my agent all the time. If you're listening,

Starting point is 00:55:22 you know who you are because I tell I will text me like, I'm ready for a daily show. I'm ready to do a daily. And he's like, Annie, you need to like chill. I know you want to do a lot, but like relax. And you have a good Saturday, Sunday, new show. I know. We already have Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, every other Friday and now a bonus episode Friday, which I think we're putting out in total between this and Patreon 16 episodes a month.

Starting point is 00:55:43 Can you get to work? I need to get my shit together. Can you wash the grass stains off your shirt and get to work? Just rolling around in the grass apparently. All right, guys. So yeah, daily show. Leave it in the comments. Let my agent see it.

Starting point is 00:55:54 Daily, daily. he's going to kill me um all right guys have a great rest of your thursday an amazing weekend i will be back in your ear tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow i'll love you tomorrow it's only a day a way i need a daddy warbucks in my life all right bye guys

SERIALously - 394: D4vd Hiding Evidence, Louisiana Family Annihilator & DNA Found in Athena Strand?

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