SERIALously - 412: Kepner Stepbrother Locked Up, Teen Kills Family With Adult Boyfriend & Alabama CSAM Bunker

Starting point is 00:00:01 Hey, true crime besties, welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialessly. Hello, hello, and welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialessly with me, your host, Annie Elise, also your true crime bestie, and today's Thursday, which means headline highlights. And we have a lot to talk about today, not only new cases, but a very happy update that I am excited to share with you. You know the drill, though. Before we get into everything, I have to let you know what we do here. Mondays are our deep dives where we go into one singular case, go down the rabbit hole, explain everything, the thoughts, the theories, the facts, the speculation. And this week, in case you missed it, we did a mega deep dive into the Reagan, Hancock, and Taylor Parker case. Now, if those names aren't familiar, let me just say you probably saw the documentary, maternal instinct on your Netflix feed this weekend. Everybody, everybody's been talking about it on social media as well, but there was so much more that was not able to be included, which we've talked about that before, right? In 90 minutes, how can you possibly include everything? So I put out a two and a half hour episode that included not only all the details, but a lot of the footage, the interviews, the interrogation, things that we were able to source

Starting point is 00:01:36 through a workaround internally that Netflix wasn't able to get. Other creators haven't been able to get. And so if you want like the full comprehensive deep dive, like you know, we like to do. Go listen to it now. So let's get into headline highlights. And I'm really, really excited because today's guest is super special to me. She is royal. She's an heiress. And her name is Amy Kohlhe. Wow. If only those things were true. But as you were going, I'm like, who do we have on today? No, I was trying to figure out the tea up. And like, I'm running out of things since it's happening every week. But I need to like start jotting down ideas, which if any of you guys have ideas. Well, I would like your heart fall.

Starting point is 00:02:16 sentiments towards me. I think you're an heiress. I think you're royal. Kind. Yeah. Yeah. All those things. Younger. Okay, not that. Obviously not that. So please welcome to the show. My older sister, Amy, O'Brien. And wiser. At times. At times. Now really quickly, before we get into the case, I do want to mention this. If you had a little bit of FOMO from CrimeCon because we had exclusive merch there, designs that we only sold there, fear not, because we have a officially launched all of that exclusive merch that you can grab right now. However, quantities are very, very limited, so it will probably go incredibly quickly. But we have the exclusive designs that we only had there. We have the very popular and in-demand sweatshirt

Starting point is 00:03:00 that says, Heller in embroidery, also the Not a Detective, just nosy, Tumblr, so many new, cute, exclusive, brand new designs. So go check that out. Quantities are limited. Go to Annieelise.com and grab them now. So I want to start with this update, which I think is going to make you incredibly happy. It is. As well as so many of you listeners, because we have a very significant update in the case of Anna Kempner. Now, you know this whole story. We have been following it very closely for months now. Actually, almost, it will be, will it be a year this fall? It's been a long time. Wow. So if you are forgetting, Anna Kempner was an 18-year-old girl who, unfortunately, was not only sexually assaulted by her 16-year-old.

Starting point is 00:03:44 stepbrother, but also murdered while on a family cruise. And then he stuffed her body under the bed, covered her with life jackets, and pretended as though nothing happened. So early on, it was apparent that he was the one who did this, allegedly, I'll say, but he wasn't kept in custody. And nobody understood why. And one of the big arguments, I guess, that I've had, and I know you have felt this as well, is that he clearly is a danger to society. She had outcried to her boyfriend. She had outcry to her boyfriend before. He had seen things on FaceTime where he had tried to creep into her room. And so clearly, this guy is a danger to society being out there. He's a sexual predator. He's a deviant. Like, why is he not being held in custody? But now, we have, can happily announce that not

Starting point is 00:04:30 only is Timothy currently facing charges for the murder and aggravated sexual assault in relation to Anna's death, but he is now officially in custody. Finally. Finally. Can I get a little, Amen. The group chat was happy last night. I know. Now, up until this point, he had been living with a relative. He was also being monitored electronically and had to follow a list of court ordered conditions while everything made its way through the court system because remember, this is also a federal case because this happened on the water. But that arrangement is officially over. So a federal judge has now ordered that Timothy be detained ahead of his trial, which is not scheduled to begin until September 8th. So he will be in custody for the next. few months. Now, prosecutors have been asking for this, arguing that Timothy shouldn't be out on release while facing these charges, being that they are so serious. However, his defense team had pushed back saying that he's been cooperative throughout the investigation and that he hasn't caused any issues or hurt anyone while he was out. But here's what is interesting. And I'll be curious to know what

Starting point is 00:05:34 you think about this because I have my own kind of interpretation of this. We still don't know exactly what led the judge to make this decision. The order explaining, why Timothy's release was revoked is currently sealed, so those details have not been made public. But I do think that this is really telling because the judge said, quote, the government has established by clear and convincing evidence that no condition or combination of conditions of release will reasonably assure the safety of the community going forward. He also stated that he presents a danger to himself and to others, which I mean, no surprise, a danger to others. He's a sexual predator in opinion. But I thought the danger to himself is interesting because one of the things we talked

Starting point is 00:06:17 about a few weeks ago when we were covering this is like he has the potential to not only flee to do whatever, but like to pull a Brian laundry and take the cowardly way out knowing that he's facing adult charges and serious, you know, time in jail. Well, and we know he had a big psychotic episode shortly after the incident on the cruise ship. And that was reported. And so as all of these consequences are coming down on him and now this reality is setting in. And now this reality is setting in perhaps he's been showing some sort of behavior that has led them to this or there's been more accounts from family. Well, let me tell you this next little statement. The judge also stated that because of the allegations, it suggests, quote, a level of psychopathy and lack of

Starting point is 00:06:57 remorse that by itself raises a serious concern that the defendant can snap at any time, despite the well-meaning and serious efforts of his caretakers to make sure that it doesn't happen. Basically saying like this guy has shown no remorse, he's a clear psychopath, caretakers have been trying to, like, manage things. And he still is not, I guess, like, exhibiting the behaviors that they wish that they were seeing. Well, I mean, think about how this whole thing started. They're on a family vacation with your entire family present.

Starting point is 00:07:26 And you, we still don't know exactly what happened. But something, some catalyst created this situation where he attacked her. We don't know what that is. So maybe there's been more light on that. Had the balls to do it while his family's on the cruise ship and, like, they're going to discover this. So that kind of says, like, despite the efforts of his caretakers and however much support he has around him, he's still a menace to society. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:07:49 That, you know what, Dennis the menace. Amen. 100%. Because think about it, too. And again, to your point, we don't know the catalyst, but we do now know that she did have sexual interactions with somebody else on that cruise. So was that what pushed him over because he felt like she belonged to him or that he was entitled somehow. I mean, we'll find out. Well, and there were no accounts from anybody from the family or I guess,

Starting point is 00:08:11 we haven't heard from any what about on the cruise that leading up to the night there had been any sort of arguments or any kind of weird behavior. So again, there was some sort of incident or emotion that struck him to then attack her, which is he's definitely someone that you can't. I mean, he's a wild card. Yeah. Would you guys know we're going to this trial? So we will be keeping you updated. Like I said, most of it is still under seal because it involves a minor and because it's a federal case, everything that rolls in with that. But what we do know is that good old Timothy was ordered to report to the federal courthouse in Tampa, where he was then taken into custody by U.S. Marshal Service.

Starting point is 00:08:49 So he is officially locked up until September. I would imagine his family is very relieved. Relieved and can sleep well. I don't know. He was staying with relatives. I feel like some people were kind of like not covering for him, but like, and I get it. It's difficult when it's family. But yeah, Sayanara.

Starting point is 00:09:06 Yeah. All right. Well, this next case. is extremely heartbreaking. It's one of the more sad cases we've covered in a while. This one took place back on March 9th when police were called to a home in Colorado after a 16-year-old girl named Grace Ryan was found unresponsive in a bathroom. And tragically, she was pronounced dead at the scene. As investigators began looking into what happened, they said they uncovered months of text messages that painted a really troubling picture of what her life was inside the home that she lived in

Starting point is 00:09:38 with both of her parents. According to court documents, preliminary autopsy findings showed that Grace had what medical professionals said was an abnormally fatty liver for someone her age, and her cause of death was ultimately determined to be aspiration pneumonia related to chronic alcohol use at just 16 years old. So let me just walk that back real quickly. The doctors found that her liver was abnormally fatty due to alcohol abuse at a very young age, 16 years old. So when detectives started searching through the phones belonging to Grace and her mother, 55-year-old Gretchen Ryan. They say they found evidence that the two had been drinking alcohol and smoking marijuana together almost every single day, dating back to September 2025.

Starting point is 00:10:23 I'm sorry, what mom is just smoking weed and drinking with their 16-year-old daughter every day? I'll tell you. The Shurilla. I mean, immediately, I'm like, what's going on? What, yeah, like, hi, you're a parent? You're not a friend. No. And police also allege that Gretchen regularly had alcohol delivered to the home and even took steps to hide it from the daughter's father who lived in the basement, which I have other questions about that.

Starting point is 00:10:49 I have a lot of questions. Why was the father living in the basement? Was she door dashing the alcohol? I guess so. So, okay, sorry, I have so many thoughts and you'll probably answer them. Keep going. Well, and I'm like, door dash, like, they still come to the door. You're living in the basement. Like, are you just? But also, like, did she really feel like the daughter was her friend? Was she lonely? Continue. Well, the investigators made another shocking discovery because they found 173 empty bottles hidden underneath Grace's bed and inside her closet, including multiple bottles of vodka and other hard liquor. Like full-sized bottles or mini bottles? Not that it makes a huge difference.

Starting point is 00:11:27 173 empty alcohol bottles, which is a lot of alcohol. And now, what makes it if you're trying to hide it, throw it away? Well, throw it away. but also, I'm thinking like a 16-year-old girl, how do you hide 173 bottles? I mean, just this space alone that it takes up, the smell. Oh, God, you. And what makes this case even more heartbreaking is that according to investigators, Grace told her mom over and over again that she was seriously sick and that something was wrong.

Starting point is 00:11:57 And in the months leading up to her death, she said that she had been vomiting up blood, having difficulty eating, trouble walking, and at one point was even, even wearing an adult diaper. She had also told her mom repeatedly that she felt like she was afraid she might die. So obviously, this girl is very, very sick and suffering from alcohol abuse at a very extreme rate. I mean, you're saying, they're saying this dates back to September. Who knows if it went back earlier?

Starting point is 00:12:26 But that's not that long ago to have these extreme. That's a lot of alcohol to be wearing an adult diaper confiding in her mom, she thinks she's going to die in her mom, not doing any. What the fuck? Okay. So the messages included in the affidavit are extremely difficult to read, and here's why. Just days before her death, she had texted her mom saying, if you're going to do this to me, you need to take me to a hospital. Then on March 4th, she sent another message that said, I'm going to die. And according to the affidavit, Gretchen just replied with, no, you aren't.

Starting point is 00:12:59 Do you imagine your mom saying that? Our mom used to freak out if she heard us, like, sniffling on the phone. She wouldn't let us eat a breath mint. Or draw a ranger. Yeah. But investigators say that at one point, Gretchen had realized how serious the situation had actually become. And in one text that she sent to her daughter, Grace, in January, she wrote, I'm committing

Starting point is 00:13:18 child abuse and murder. I will go to prison. So we have to do something. It's really bad. And in another message, she told her daughter, if you can't get up to pee, get up to pee, get food or drink, and puke blood, we aren't going to make it. We need help. This isn't working.

Starting point is 00:13:33 I'm going to lose you. My mind is blown. I know. There's an admission right there, but so was this like, not Munchausen's, but was this something where she felt like she couldn't control herself? Well, investigators say that there was absolutely no indication of her ever trying to get help for her daughter. And Grace herself even started to realize that she wasn't going to get the help she needed.

Starting point is 00:13:55 On March 3rd, just days before her death, she texted a friend, I don't think she wants to get me the help, which really scares me. I'm going to die. So this is where I felt a little bit confused because I'm thinking she obviously has access to a phone and she is scared. So why wouldn't you call 911? Maybe she's just so dependent on her mom that she felt like her mom really was going to help her. And maybe she didn't want to get her mom in trouble. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:14:20 And I also was wondering like, is there an element? Because for me, it would be out of fear. I mean, not fear of getting caught, but obviously the mom knows what's going on. But is there an element of the dad in the basement? That's why the mom's hiding it. is that what's driving them to drink? I'm not sure. And she also told a friend, me and her have been fighting really badly and it gets physical. She could go to prison for 15 years in regards to her and her mom. That came just the night before she died. And according to investigators, Grace texted her mom

Starting point is 00:14:50 from the bathroom saying she wasn't feeling well at 10.07 p.m. on March 8th. Records show that Gretchen replied and continued sending text messages to her daughter afterward, but none of them were answered. It wasn't until the next morning around 8.15 a.m. that the 911 call was made. And when detectives interviewed Gretchen, she tried to say that she didn't know what happened and that Grace must have been getting into her stuff. But she eventually admitted that she gave Grace the alcohol and that she also drank heavily herself. And according to the affidavit, she became emotional and told investigators, I can't do this.

Starting point is 00:15:25 I'm so upset. I feel like I killed her. You did. I know. She also reportedly said that she, quote, deserved to. go to jail. Amen. Gretchen told detectives that Grace had suffered a seizure the night before she was found dead and later woke up vomiting, but Gretchen believed that she was okay. And when she asked why she didn't check on her after she stopped responding to those texts, Gretchen reportedly said, I was scared I was going to find her really sick. And so I kind of buried my head in the sand and I

Starting point is 00:15:53 went back to bed, which was stupid. As investigators continued looking into Grace's home life to find out how all of this went unnoticed, which was obviously a lot of our questions. too, they learned that she had been withdrawn from public school in the fall of 2025 and was supposed to be attending classes online. According to court documents, at the time she died, she had only completed one online semester of ninth grade and hadn't participated in any of the activities outside of the home since then, which obviously is part of why probably some of the community didn't know it was going on, but still, your friend isn't in school anymore. They're not coming to the activities that they're supposed to participate in. You'd hope that somebody would have

Starting point is 00:16:31 taken that a little bit more seriously. Well, that also aligns with if the drinking started in September 25, that's when she was withdrawn from school. Yeah. So after a two-month-long investigation, authorities arrested Gretchen on May 15th and charged her with one count of second-degree murder in connection with her daughter's death. She is currently being held on a $500,000 cash-only bond. So honestly, this whole case is devastating. And I hope that we'll get a little bit more answers. Grace was obviously asking for help over and over again. Her mom was also worried. So again, that just begs the question, what drove her to start drinking in the fall? Like, what was that catalyst

Starting point is 00:17:13 that caused them to both start doing drugs and drinking together, hiding it from their dad? And then obviously now it got to the point where she kind of knew what had happened and then was in denial about it. I wonder if there was like some sort of like compulsion on her mother's end. or like she's being homeschooled. And so she's like, oh, yeah, have a drink. You're at home. And like there has to be something mentally deeper here, I would imagine. So I had a very, very close friend in high school.

Starting point is 00:17:44 And at the end of high school, her parents went through a very bad divorce. And her mom became very good friends with her. And they drank a lot. And it was not the family you would expect to see that from. And it was actually shocking. And it reminds me a lot of this because a lot of us were kind of saying like, hey, what's going on? Like, they're drinking a lot and there is noticeably behavior going on that was not something that would happen. And I think in that situation, it was that the mother was just going through something so painful.

Starting point is 00:18:15 And it was nice to have a friend there. And you're the cool mom and the kids are coming around and you feel cool. Yeah, everybody wants to have your house be the party house. And I mean, that didn't last long. And thank God, nothing. tragic happened, but... Oh, man. I know. Okay, well, this one is a rough one. And this next case is coming from North Carolina. And I have to say, it is really shocking when I first heard about it. I knew I needed to research it because I couldn't make sense of it. And it makes me feel so bad for the girl

Starting point is 00:18:47 involved, even though I'm kind of torn because I think she, I mean, she is the one to blame, but I also feel for her a little bit. So back on May 7th, deputies were called to a home in Fairview, North Carolina for a welfare check. This was after 41-year-old Travis Grant hadn't shown up for work for several days. However, this wasn't the first time that the authorities had been asked to check in on the family. In fact, deputies had already responded to that same house twice in two days before that. Now, according to the sheriff's office, welfare checks were requested on May 5th and again on May 6th. So deputies had responded both times, but they said that they didn't have enough information or reason to legally force their way into the home.

Starting point is 00:19:25 Then, during that third welfare check on May 7th, deputies finally entered the home, and when they did, they made a horrifying discovery. Inside, they found three people dead from gunshot wounds, and investigators believed that these three people had been deceased for several days before they were found. The victims were identified as 41-year-old Travis Grant, his wife Kimberly, and Travis's 66-year-old mother, Sharon. So as investigators began piecing together what had happened, they realized that someone else was missing from the home in all of this. Travis and Kimberly's 16-year-old daughter, Starr. So they started searching for Starr, and it really didn't take long to find her. Around 4 a.m. the next morning, officers located her vehicle in Gatlinburg, Tennessee,

Starting point is 00:20:11 and it was parked outside a motel 6. Then, later that morning, authorities entered a hotel room, and they found Starr with a 28-year-old man named Devin Loving. So investigators said that they believed that the two of them had been in Tennessee for, quote, more than a few days. Both Starr at 16 years old and 28-year-old Devin were taken into custody and they were questioned. And those interviews led to both of them then being charged in connection with the murders. During a press conference later that evening, authorities announced that Starr and Devin had each been charged with three counts of first-degree murder and one count of conspiracy to commit murder. Devin was also charged with abduction of a child because, remember, he's

Starting point is 00:20:54 28, and she is 16. And even though she's only 16, Star is actually being charged as an adult, and both her and Devin were denied bond. So as news of the discovery and the arrest start spreading, people who knew this family really struggled to make sense of what had happened. One of Starr's friends who lived across the street said that she grew up around the family, that she spent a lot of time at their home. She said, quote, she would take care of me at school. If like someone was bullying me or something, she would stand up for me. It's so weird to expect my neighbor to do all of that. And it's the one that I grew up with.

Starting point is 00:21:28 I was at their house constantly. She also described Starr's family as kind and welcoming, saying, quote, her family was great to me. They treated me well. She was an amazing person to me. And honestly, that's kind of what makes this case so difficult to wrap your head around because the people who knew this family

Starting point is 00:21:44 say that they seemed very normal, very close, very well-liked. Nothing about their dynamic seemed like it would ever lead to something this sort. tragic and this horrific, especially at the hand of their own daughter. Now, while the authorities haven't publicly announced or established the nature of the relationship between Starr and Devon and investigators haven't announced a motive, I think it is pretty clear what happened here given little bits and pieces that we've learned, because a relative since these murders has come forward claiming that Starr's parents, Travis and Kimberly, knew about her 28-year-old, I'm going to say, boyfriend, Devin, and that they had

Starting point is 00:22:22 concerns about the possible relationship between the two of them before the murders. According to Travis and Kimberly's niece, family members had learned that Star had allegedly been communicating with Devin through a burner phone. He had purchased her this so that she wouldn't get caught. It wouldn't be under the family plan. They could talk in secret. And the parents learned about this. I think we're all still in shock. Brittany Tussie is the Grant's niece. As soon as her parents found out about it, they were like, no, this is not happening. And, And we're putting a restraining order on him. And before they were even able to do that, they killed him.

Starting point is 00:22:56 Tussie's convinced the family was angry. Devin Loving, 28, had become involved with their 16-year-old daughter. It was a situation where he was constantly going to her work and seeing her. So the last day that Travis was at work, he told his boss and several co-workers that he was going to put a restraining order out. And then he never showed back up at work. They most definitely told Starr that that's what they were doing. They ended up taking the phone from her. and then they told her that that, more than likely that that's what they were doing.

Starting point is 00:23:25 And then that this is how the horrible tragedy played out. So as you just heard, he buys her this burner phone. He's constantly going to Starr's work so that he can see her. This 28-year-old predator who has no business being with a 16-year-old girl. And when the parents found out about it, Travis told Starr like, hey, you better stop this relationship. Otherwise, I'm going to put a restraining order out on Devin. And what I found so interesting about this.

Starting point is 00:23:51 and I wonder if your mind is going there. When I was 17, I was dating a 26-year-old, which in hindsight is the worst mistake of my entire life. It was awful. I've shared that before on here, but like worst mistake I ever made and like looking back, I'm like, what was this sick freak doing? But dad said when he found out about the relationship that he was going to arrest him and call the police. He called me and he said, he was free. Don't say his name. He was freaking out.

Starting point is 00:24:17 And he said, Amy, I'm going to call the cops and get this guy arrested. And I said, absolutely not, which now in hindsight. I know. If it were Emmy immediately. Like, you don't even need to call the cops on there. But I said, you cannot do that. That is so embarrassing to Annie. And like, I think I might have even lightly defended the guy and said, like, you don't want to ruin his life.

Starting point is 00:24:41 Like, it's consensual. Like, they both like each other, which obviously I wasn't that old either at the time. So it's like. Right. You are the older sister. No, I'm just kidding. No, I know. It's great. I mean, I wasn't making the best decisions. Why dad came to me for advice? I've No, but it totally reminds me of that because it's not, I mean, 17 is older than 16, but still you're a minor. And like, I look back on that all at the time. And like, that was a pivotal

Starting point is 00:25:06 relationship in my life in a lot of negative ways. And so I thought about that and like how this guy is just like praying on her probably like, oh my God, this older guy is so into me. My parents are the ones who are getting in the way of this. We're in love. And like, you can't rationalize what the reality truly is and how awful and dangerous it really is. So anyway, But like, what did he say to convince her that this was the right plan? Like, that's a very big extreme. They're going to keep us apart. Let's get rid of them and we'll be together.

Starting point is 00:25:34 And, like, I think, too, I think I've said this in the past, I think when with the TV shows that are out there right now, the movies that are out there, these kinds of relationships and even crime itself has been glamorized to an extent. So I could see we're an impressionable 16-year-old girl. If he's being like, it's romantic, we're going to be together. We're going to get rid of your family and live together and run away to where she's not quite thinking her frontal lobe isn't developed she's like thinking this is the man of her dreams and it's a fairy tale ending and like she gets swept up that's why at the beginning i was like

Starting point is 00:26:05 i feel for her she obviously made the complete wrong decisions here even though they're only allegations right now and they haven't been proven in court but i mean i think he groomed her obviously but let me ask you in your situation like what would it have taken for that person to convince you to kill multiple your grandmother that's what i mean so it's like did she have taken so it's like did she have a good relationship. Not that that matters. Right. I'm just like, how do you get to from A to B? Yeah. That feels like a big. And I'm so sick of burner phones and like these older ass guys buying burner phones for kids. David bought one for Celeste. He like bribed the kid in junior high to give her the burner phone. Like stop praying on minor children. I get where that's an incentive. Because when I got

Starting point is 00:26:47 my first phone, it was like, you're allowed to call me and no one else like mom was like, you're not allowed to talk. So if someone was like, here's a free phone. Well, of course. And we had like the pagers. and we're like calling from the pay phones because we're old as fuck. So obviously right now there are still a lot of questions, but with a 16-year-old girl and a 28-year-old man, both facing triple murder charges, this is definitely a case that I think the writing's on the wall, but we also are going to keep a very close eye on.

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Starting point is 00:29:56 Discovery Set to find your signature scent. Go to Salt andstone.com slash A.E and use code A.E at checkout for 15% off your first order. That's Salt andstone.com slash A.E. And use code A.E for 15% off your first order. All right. This next case is a total mystery that has people all over the world asking the same question, which is what the heck is going on here? Because a 26-year-old woman who is the heiress of a German shipping company was found dead at her family's luxury wildlife estate in South Africa on June 1st. And if that wasn't shocking enough, it happened just one day after another person connected to the estate was also found dead on the same property. Caroline von Rantzau was the heiress to D.A.L. A multi-million dollar

Starting point is 00:30:51 German shipping company and she spent a lot of time at her family's estate in South Africa. The property is located on what is known as the South Africa's premier safari region and serves as both a wildlife reserve and destination for trophy hunting. But on June 1st, Caroline was found dead in her room in the estate from a gunshot wound. Investigators believe that Caroline was shot with a 0.357 caliber hunting rifle and reports say that it was the same type of gun that her father had in his gun cabinet. Authorities are still working to determine exactly what happened and autopsy results have not yet been released, but it's obviously still under investigation. But here's where the case really takes a very strange turn. Because just one day before Caroline was found dead,

Starting point is 00:31:38 the estate's financial manager, 44-year-old Arno Coon, was also found dead on the property after being shot with a 9-millimeter pistol. And Arno wasn't just some employee. People close to the family described him as a confidant, mentor, and even a father figure to Caroline. He handled bookings and finances for the estate and was reportedly someone very, very close to the family. So naturally people immediately started wondering whether the two deaths could somehow be connected. And at this point, authorities have not publicly confirmed any connection between the shootings, but the timing all of it has fueled huge speculation online. And then another detail raised some serious red flags because some of the early reports,

Starting point is 00:32:21 including from the company DAL itself, claim that Carrier, airline had died in a car accident. That information was obviously proven false once the authorities confirmed she had actually died from a gunshot wound. But by then the rumor mill was in full swing and the conflicting reports just added to that speculation from the public. Online people have gone down every single rabbit hole imaginable. Some believe the initial accident reports were just misinformation spread before the facts came out. But then others have come up with other theories, even suggesting that there may be some sort of larger cover-up that happened. But to be clear, there's absolutely no evidence publicly supporting any of these theories or speculation at the time. They're just theories,

Starting point is 00:33:05 but they do point out some very major red flags. And as of right now, authorities haven't identified any suspects, announced any arrests, or publicly named any person of interest. And they're just left answering, trying to answer some really big questions here. And so for now, they're just trying to uncover some answers to these very big. questions. How did two people connected to the same estate end up shot to death just one day apart? Was it this tragic coincidence or was something related? Is there something bigger going on here? Was there actually a cover up? My question is, were both of those guns from the same cabinet? That would be very fishy to me. So hopefully we'll have some more information soon. But something

Starting point is 00:33:48 sounds a little off there. It's giving succession. And I want to see who was in line to inherit what. And was the financial manager stealing money for him and Caroline? Was there something more to that relationship since they were so close? I don't like it. Did she find or did he find out something? Did she find out something? Yeah. Something smells afoot here, O'Brien.

Starting point is 00:34:11 We got to get on the case. I don't like it either. And you know what? I really don't like this next case. I knew. It is sick A.F. It is enraging me and it's probably going to get me flagged all over YouTube. So for all of my YouTube viewers, you may need to pop.

Starting point is 00:34:24 over the podcast now to listen to the uncensored version, but it was too important not to talk about. But I want to tell you, it is incredibly difficult to hear. So authorities in Alabama have called this one of the worst cases that they have ever investigated. And like I said, the details are absolutely horrifying. So big trigger warning. Investigators in Bibb County, Alabama, say that they uncovered what they believe was a child trafficking ring in an underground bunker. According to court documents, children as young as two years old were allegedly brought into this bunker, drugged, restrained, and then abused by paying adults. Authorities now believe that there are more than 10 victims, but they've also said several times that even today, they still don't know the full scope of what may have happened. And when I first heard about this case, it's because I saw video footage of all of these predators being escorted out of the van and taken into custody.

Starting point is 00:35:19 So many of you also DMed it to me and were like, have you? heard about this. And this is a pretty big investigation. It first began back in February of 2025 when two children who had recently been taken into state custody started showing signs of what the state called concerning behaviors. When child welfare workers asked where they had learned these behaviors that they were exhibiting, which I'm not going to go into a lot of detail. You can imagine, you know, certain things that they were doing that only adults do. The children allegedly said that they learned it from a man named William and that they learned it in what they called a secret bunker. So pretty quickly, investigators located this bunker and they started

Starting point is 00:36:00 looking further into what was going on. The bunker was originally built as an underground storm shelter. And when investigators searched for it for the first time on February 5th, 2025, they found a bed, a few chairs, a small dresser, a toilet, and a sink. But investigators soon learned that it had been used for something much darker than a traditional storm shelter. So for months, authorities worked the case behind the scenes. And then on July 19th, they announced the investigation and the first arrest. 21-year-old William McElroy, 21-year-old Dalton Terrell, and 29-year-old Andre's Trejo. They were all taken into custody on a long list of charges related to child trafficking and child essay. I'm just going to abbreviate it because I know I'm going to get flagged.

Starting point is 00:36:48 Now, at the time, investigators say that they had identified six victims between the ages of three and ten years old. They also believed that this ring had been operating for at least a year, starting all the way back in 2024. And as more court records became public, the allegations became even more disturbing, if you can believe that. Investigators alleged that children were being brought to this bunker, drugged, restrained, and then exploited by these adults. And it also alleged that some of these adults were making what they called appointments and with these kids, making appointments to come and to hurt these children physically, sexually, emotionally, and paying to do so. According to authorities, some of these adults paid as much as $1,000, which I'm sorry, it doesn't matter. They say as much, which, like, that is not enough. I was like $1,000.

Starting point is 00:37:38 Exactly. Exactly. So then just a few days after those first arrests, the case started to expand. On July 22nd, 23-year-old Timothy St. John was indicted on multiple charges connected to the investigation, including rape, sodomy, trafficking, kidnapping, bestiality, and aggravated cruelty to animals. Which, sick warning right now, if you don't know the term bestiality. First of all, do not Google it. Okay. I, like two years ago, I didn't know what that was when I started working with you and I did Google it and I did not even know that that was a real thing. I can't even wrap my head around that. It's people who have sex with animals. It's disgusting.

Starting point is 00:38:18 It is disgusting. Now, at the time the Bibb County Sheriff said, quote, such behavior will not be tolerated in Bibb County, and the offenders will face prosecution to the fullest extent of the law. He also stated that investigators expected more arrests to happen, which he was not kidding when he said that, because the very next day, authorities announced three more arrests. 29-year-old Rebecca Brewer, a female,

Starting point is 00:38:43 41-year-old Sarah Terrell, a female, and 44-year-old Ricky Terrell. So you've also heard the same last name going in here. It's a family situation going on. It's disgusting. I literally had chills this entire time because I'm so disgusted. So by that point, seven people had been charged in connection with this investigation. Investigator said at the time that the scope of this case had grown significantly. The age range of the victims had expanded from three to 10 years old to 3 to 15.

Starting point is 00:39:13 years old. It was also said that some of the defendants were actually parents of the victims involved in this case. I had a feeling because I'm like, where are these children coming from? They've got to be related in some way. This is one I'd be really curious, actually, for us to tap into Greg at Child Rescue Coalition and see if this is on their radar. Because we've been talking, unfortunately, lately, about a lot of cases involving CSAM material and children and parents being the ones who are facilitating the transactions and the behavior. And selling the material. Yes, exactly.

Starting point is 00:39:46 So the sheriff said that the investigators had reason to believe that this abuse may have started as early as 2022, two years earlier than initially believed. He described the bunker as a place that was built for a good thing, but used for a horrible thing. Then on August 6th, an 8th person was indicted. 26-year-old Olivia L.M. was charged with multiple offenses, including kidnapping and trafficking of a minor for sexual servitude. By that point, the eight suspects were facing well over 100 criminal charges combined. And somehow, the allegations in all of this, as if it weren't disturbing and

Starting point is 00:40:21 bad enough, they only became more horrifying as investigators continued digging into this case. Court documents alleged that everyone had a very specific role in this entire operation. Specifically, they said that Andreas would put, quote, a white powder into drinks that was then given to the victims before they were brought into the bunker. They also alleged that Sarah Terrell placed an animal shot collar on some of the victims and used these collars as a form of punishment and also for her own sexual gratification. Sick freak. Authorities now believe that there are more than 10 victims connected to this case, but they have said several times that they still don't know the full scope of what had happened. And they also say additional victims could still be

Starting point is 00:41:05 identified as the investigation continues. Now, since the arrest, this case has moved very slowly through the court system as prosecutors continue reviewing evidence. But the last week and the reason why we're talking about it this week in headline highlights, even though this all went down in 2025, is because there was a major development. Rebecca Brewer became the first defendant to take a plea deal. Olivia Elam, Andres Trejo, William Chase McElroy, Dalton Terrell, Ricky Terrell, Sarah Terrell, and Timothy St. John all appeared in court Thursday morning for sex trafficking charges. The eighth suspect Rebecca Brewer pleaded guilty to kidnapping and an amended charge of sexual torture. Her case is under gag order.

Starting point is 00:41:47 On June 11th, she pleaded guilty to nine counts of first degree kidnapping and one count of sexual torture. She had originally been facing dozens of felony charges, but those charges were of course reduced because of the deal that she took. But the details of that plea deal are sealed under a gagged. order because the case against the other seven defendants is still ongoing. They don't want to jeopardize any of that. She most likely, I would, you know, 99.9% say that she exchanged a lot of how the operation worked, information on the other people who have been arrested, and that was all in exchange for this deal, which is why it's now on a gag order and sealed. Her sentencing has also been delayed until those cases are finished, but the charges that she pleaded guilty to still carry

Starting point is 00:42:28 penalties ranging from at least 10 years in prison to life in prison. Now, on the same day that pleaded guilty. The upcoming trials for the other seven defendants were pushed back because attorneys are still reviewing that evidence. The court has also brought in a second judge to assist with the proceedings, though they haven't explained exactly why that happened. It might just be too much for one judge to handle conflict of interest with too many people who are going to be on trial, who really knows. But honestly, every single part of this case is not only incredibly disturbing and difficult to hear, but enraging to hear, especially when it's family members. involved. Like, for what, a few thousand dollars, you're selling your children, you're selling

Starting point is 00:43:08 other children, you're kidnapping other children. I mean, and the fact that the investigator still don't know how many children have been victims in this case, it just makes it even more heartbreaking. And unfortunately, it sounds like there is still a very long road ahead before all of the facts come to light. I mean, beyond infuriating is how I'm feeling, but also just so many questions, because, like, you hear this stuff that happens to kids, which, you know, I get very emotional about. And I don't understand how people can disassociate to a level that extreme. I get it. People are motivated by money. You hear about hit men, drugs, all these things where it's like, you'd really do that for a thousand bucks, but people are desperate. People need money into a lot of

Starting point is 00:43:52 people. A thousand dollars is a lot of money. It is a lot of money. But when it comes to kids, the level you have to stoop and disassociate yourself to do anything to a child. let alone to this extreme, I can't, it's hard to even imagine that that's possible and that there are that many people. And then you're thinking it's family. So then when you go deeper, you're thinking these poor children, what happened to them, but now they're watching their parents allegedly go through this process of getting in trouble for it.

Starting point is 00:44:25 So now they're having to make sense of what happened to them and they don't have family. It's just like it's too much. It's too much. burn them all. That's what I have to say. Oh, beyond. Yeah. All right. So before we wrap up, you guys know we are starting a new little outgoing segment on here from CrimeCon. We had our anonymous phone in the booth where people could either ask for advice or leave their confession. So we're going to go ahead and play another one for you now and then we can discuss. Okay, hey, Andy. I'm actually here for some advice. I don't think I've done any crazy crimes, but if you were were dealing with a situation where you found out that somebody was committing a crime and you're in a position like there's somebody that's close to you how do you go about doing that without i don't know

Starting point is 00:45:12 putting yourself into like immense danger yeah well thank you annie so much we love you we love you so much and we'll catch you later on the next big vlog you know we're going to make sure like comment and subscribe and as always pound it noggin see you all right so my advice for that would be you definitely if you think they're doing a crime, you need to tell the police or whoever you think they are going to commit a crime against. Well, yeah, that's what I was going to say. So is he saying, like, someone close to you committed the crime and they're confessing to you? I think he's saying that he thinks they're going to commit a crime. Oh, they're going to commit a crime. A hundred percent report it. Yeah. And if you think that you could be in danger, get away from that person.

Starting point is 00:45:52 And if they did, so my question to you, Annie, if they did commit the crime and confess to you and you want to do something without getting in trouble or you're scared to tell on them, what would you do? I would still go to the police, but I would also distance myself from that person as much as humanly possible and tell somebody else, I'm basically narking on this person

Starting point is 00:46:12 if anything happens to me, look at this person. I think that's good advice. So stop doing committing crimes, people. Or hanging out with people. Or hanging out with people. Now before you go, quick reminder, merch right now, Annie Elease.com, get it before it is completely.

Starting point is 00:46:28 gone. All right, guys, well, unfortunately, that's a very somber note to end on, but that's what we have this week for headline highlights. So thank you so much for sticking with us, listening to all of these cases. We appreciate it. As a reminder, you can go listen to that mega deep dive that released Monday. Also, on my second true crime podcast feed, 10 to Life, new episodes there every Tuesday, so you have plenty in between both of those feeds to binge. And I will be back with you very soon on Monday, actually, with an all new case. Until then, be nice, don't kill people, don't be a freak parent and like be a parent, not a friend for that one and just watch your back.

Starting point is 00:47:07 All right. Bye.

SERIALously - 412: Kepner Stepbrother Locked Up, Teen Kills Family With Adult Boyfriend & Alabama CSAM Bunker

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