SERIALously - 429: Mom & Grandma Plot Murders, Can Lindsay Clancy Appeal?, OnlyFans Model Gets Away with Murder?

Starting point is 00:00:01 Hey, true crime besties, welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialessly. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialessly with me, your host, by myself, without anybody else here. Nobody's in studio. Hello, Amy. There's no surprise element without the two cameras and without pushing you off screen because I'm not going to break my left thumb again. Although, I will say to a lot of people are like, what do you mean? left thumb is useless. I'm a lefty and I'm like, okay. I know, but that was a pretty hard crash. No, it was. I crashed and burned. So without two camera angles, without pushing you off screen,

Starting point is 00:01:00 this is the only thing I can do for the element of surprise. So hello to no surprise ever. Amy Colette is joining today. Thank you so much. You know what? You're welcome. It's an honor. It's a gift, really? It is. Okay. It's Thursday, which means headline highlights. And maybe we need to rename it H-H-H-8. Wait, hold on, I can't spell HS-H-H. Holy shit headline highlights because there are so many crazy things we need to talk about today. Not only new cases, like I'll say, updates in cases, a lot of updates. We're going to be talking about the Courtney Clunney plea deal, the only fans model, which by the way, I should be a freaking psychic because I called this last week. We're going to be talking about the mom

Starting point is 00:01:49 and the grandma plotting together to annihilate the entire family. We're going to be talking about Lindsay Clancy and the trial that's going on right now. I did put a deep dive out on Monday regarding all of the theories surrounding Patrick Clancy. And I spoke with an attorney. I'm not going to say who, but a friend of mine. And I have some interesting information that I want to share with you guys. Because my question was, after seeing all of the speculation, like, if Lindsay were starting to doubt herself right now and doubt that she really did do this,

Starting point is 00:02:21 could there be an appeal? Could Patrick be charged for anything? Could she just, you know, get this overturned and take a shot at a new trial entirely and cast enough reasonable doubt? And I was like, I'm not obviously an expert to determine what is legal, what is ethically okay for her defense attorney to do. So I had a professional way in and I'm going to share that with you. We are going to be talking about a new case breaking out of North Dakota, the disgusting human. That is Jesse Butler. There is just a lot going on today. So as a reminder, I know I just briefly touched on it.

Starting point is 00:02:57 Two deep dives came out already this week that you can go listen to on Monday on this feed, the serialistly feed, the deep dive into Patrick Clancy, Lindsay's husband, and the online speculation surrounding him and why people are suggesting. that he was involved in this and that he spearheaded this and framed Lindsay and everything that rolls into that. And then on Tuesday, I released a deep dive on the second true crime podcast,

Starting point is 00:03:24 10 to life, going into a horrible case in which this woman on her wedding night was leaving with her husband. She got hit by a drunk driver, lost her life. You probably have seen bits and pieces of the body cam and interrogation footage

Starting point is 00:03:42 of this drunk driver who had zero remorse at all, but there's so much more that goes into it. So that deep dive was released on Tuesday. So let's start with Courtney Clunney, okay? And this is the one that we talked about last week a little bit too. She officially has taken a plea deal in the death of her boyfriend, Christian of Insully. The sentence that she agreed to is a lot less than what she was facing if this were to go to trial. And as a reminder, Courtney Clunney is the only fans model. She lived in Florida with her boyfriend

Starting point is 00:04:14 Christian. A few years back, they got into an altercation. He ultimately knife wound to his, I guess you could just say shoulder. He bled out and he unfortunately died. She then was charged with his murder. She claimed it was self-defense. She claimed that she threw the knife from 10 feet away with such precision that it hit him, all of these things. There's a lot of evidence in this case. And we talked a little bit about that in last week's episode. There was a lot of body cam footage where she was dripped in blood when officers arrived. There was elevator footage of them being very combative with one another. There was a lot.

Starting point is 00:04:53 However, there was also some speculation and a couple of people coming forward with testimony about Christians' past that did not make him look very favorable. To where we know all it takes is one juror to have a lot of. little bit of doubt in their mind, and that's all it takes. So when we first heard about the plea deal last week without knowing the details, my thought was, oh, they're going to use that to cast doubt. They're scared they're not going to get this full 30-year conviction based on the evidence they do have. There's something in the discovery that is making them pause a little bit here. I think they'll probably plead her down to seven years and probably down to manslaughter. And sure enough, on Monday, August 10th of this week, Courtney pleaded guilty to manslaughter, completely dropping the second-degree

Starting point is 00:05:39 murder charge that she had been facing, which would have held up to 30 years in prison. So under this plea agreement, Courtney and prosecutors agreed on a sentence of six years, so I was one year off, six years in state prison, but here's the catch here. She also gets credit for time already served because she's been in jail for years now awaiting trial. And so because she's already been in custody for about four years. She only has two years left to serve based on the paperwork and once everything shuffles out and good behavior and all of these things, they believe she probably will only serve 18 to 20 months left out of all of this.

Starting point is 00:06:21 Her attorney also pointed out that there is additional time that Courtney had spent in custody in Hawaii back on August 2nd in 2022. So they believe that that should also be credited toward her. her sentence. So depending on exactly how that additional credit is calculated, she could potentially be looking at even less time, if you can believe it. And honestly, when you compare what she was facing before this deal took place, it's a pretty big difference because if she would have been convicted of second degree murder at the end of her trial, she was looking at a potential sentence of 30 years. I think it was actually 30 years to life, if I'm not mistaken. And only six years,

Starting point is 00:07:01 or I'm sorry, of only a few years of credit, or what am I trying to say? Yeah, thank you. Only a few years of time served. So like a big chunk of her life, this is the deal of all deals. And I would imagine she got that. Because I don't think they had enough evidence.

Starting point is 00:07:20 I think there was something that was making them feel like there was going to be enough doubt. That is such a like large discrepancy. I know. And people are obviously outraged, which it's completely understanding. I think that it's absolutely appalling that this woman is going to walk out of prison, probably the same time Diddy does, if we're being honest, and just gets to live her whole life,

Starting point is 00:07:45 have her whole life ahead of her as if nothing ever happened. It's so sad. So once she is done with her stint, she'll be out. However, that being said, she isn't completely done with the court system once she's released, because she will have five years of probation, and within her first year out of prison, she also will be required to complete a mental health evaluation, a batterer's intervention program,

Starting point is 00:08:10 and a substance abuse treatment program. She also has to pay court costs, fines. I would imagine a wrongful death lawsuit is probably also going to be coming her way. So not entirely over, but you still get your freedom, something that Christian will never have. I can't imagine being his family. I know.

Starting point is 00:08:28 It's devastating. So now after more than four years in custody, she has officially avoided a murder conviction and possibly decades long of a prison sentence, which, again, like, what the hell? It's... I was going to say there probably will be civil lawsuits and other things that are going to come after.

Starting point is 00:08:51 I agree. I don't think his family is going to go down quietly with this. No. Now, speaking of trial updates, Let's talk really quickly about the Lindsay Clancy trial that's going on right now because we went through week two last week. We are in week three right now. And this trial in total has brought some of the most difficult testimony that we have heard, right? Details about the injuries that were suffered by the children.

Starting point is 00:09:16 Lindsay's own medical crisis. Testimony from people who knew the family. The doctors. There was a brutal cross-examination earlier this week of one of her doctors. and last week that being the second week, it started off with the injuries and the autopsies of the kids. They also focused a lot on Lindsay's injuries and everything that she went through while she was hospitalized. And look, while I don't want to get overly graphic with what the children went through, I do think that given all of the conversation right now out there about Patrick Clancy, Lindsay,

Starting point is 00:09:49 I think people are not forgetting the children in all of this, but there is not a lot of focus on them and saying their names and remembering them. And I do want to go through what happened to these children. Just to, again, illustrate how bad this was, whether you believe it was a mental health crisis or Lindsay just being a cold-blooded murder or Patrick framing her and orchestrating this whole thing. But doctors who treated five-year-old Cora testified that she arrived at the hospital blue and that she had bruising around her neck,

Starting point is 00:10:23 broken blood vessels around her eyes, and blood coming from her nose. Doctors testified that they attempted to revive her for about 30 minutes before she was then pronounced dead. Doctors also talked about how eight-month-old Callan was initially revived and flown to Boston's Children's Hospital. There, doctors found ligature marks and swelling around his neck. His brain was swollen so severely that it had, quote,

Starting point is 00:10:48 overwhelmed the capacity of his skull. Although his heart started beating again, he was ultimately declared brain dead and then taken off life support. They also talked a lot about Lindsay's injuries, and we know that she did have severe damage to her spine. She had a crushed thyroid. She had cuts to her neck and her wrists.

Starting point is 00:11:08 Some of, you know, some people say that those cuts were not only superficial, but that because she was a nurse, they should have been vertical and they were horizontal, which to online users further credits their theories that Patrick is the one who inflicted these injuries. But last week, doctors talked about how she was unresponsive when she arrived at the hospital and how she was indivated before being transferred to another hospital's ICU. There, she went into cardiac arrest and she required a massive blood transfusion

Starting point is 00:11:38 that the doctors said ended up saving her life. Then the trial turned toward the physical evidence inside the home. A Massachusetts state police crime lab blood spatter expert and investigators were brought in to testify about what the scene looked like. However, shortly after, the defense agreed to stipulate certain evidence, including DNA from the exercise bans, autopsy details, and the handling of biological evidence. So this basically means that for the rest of the trial, prosecutors won't have to call in any other witnesses to establish the chain of custody for any of that evidence. And this was a pretty interesting take. I think that people were kind of saying, why waste all of the time with calling all of these witnesses if you're not going to argue any of these points?

Starting point is 00:12:24 Like it just seems like an administrative task rather than anything else. So, you know, hey, we don't need to talk about the DNA. We don't need to talk about the autopsy details or any of that or the handling of the biological evidence. Because again, if it's a typical murder trial similar to say Karen Reed, where there's a they're challenging the collection of evidence, the glass, the blood spatter, all of these things, then yeah, they would want all of these witnesses in to testify to it because they're poking holes in it, as the defense attorney would do. But that's not what they're trying to do.

Starting point is 00:12:57 They're just trying to illustrate whether or not Lindsay was legally insane at the time of these murders. So I don't know. I thought that that was interesting, wasn't really expecting it, but I think it does save some time. Now, one of the most emotional moments came when the family's former nanny testified. Elaine had worked with the Clancy family starting in September of 2022, and she said that Cora was a girly girl through and through, that Dawson was energetic and silly, and Callan was the happiest, sweetest, easiest baby. As Elaine testified, you could see Lindsay become visibly emotional and sobbing beside her attorney. At one point, her attorney even like grasping her hand. Elaine also testified that Lindsay had told her that she, quote, was suffering from

Starting point is 00:13:43 postpartum, that she was seeing doctors, trying medications, and struggling with sleep. And when asked whether she ever had any concerns about Lindsay's interactions with her kids, she said, no, none at all. She's a wonderful mom. I observed a wonderful mom who loved her kids. The jury also heard from Lindsay's former father-in-law and some of their friends. They described her as, yeah, increasingly tired, sometimes distracted or quiet, and that she seemed a little bit withdrawn in the months before the children were killed. One friend testified that sometime shortly before January 24th, Lindsay told her that one of the medications was causing, quote, dark thoughts, and that she was tapering off of it while trying new medications. However, Lindsay never went into detail as to what those

Starting point is 00:14:29 dark thoughts were. That friend later visited Lindsay in rehab in March of 2023, so post the deaths. And she testified that Lindsay didn't mention the deaths. She didn't cry about her children during that visit. And she was just very stoic. However, on cross-examination, she did clarify that the subject hadn't been brought up. And she remembered being told not to even discuss it. So Lindsay's not the one who brought it up in conversation. She was directed not to even discuss it. So of course, it didn't come up in conversation rather than Lindsay being cold-hearted and callous and just not caring. So I would imagine, too, that that recommendation might have been based, been coming from Lindsay's mental health providers. So finally, there was a lot of courtroom controversy. You may have

Starting point is 00:15:14 seen clips of this on social media involving a hot mic moment. During emotional testimony about the children's autopsies, Lindsay was crying and obviously very emotional as these photographs were being shown to the jury. But then people overheard what they believe was the prosecution might microphone picking up a comment that Lindsay's attorney believes said, shut her up, as if the prosecutors were so frustrated that she was pouring out all of this emotion and sad and that that would sway the jury. So like under their breath being like, shut her up, shut her up. The prosecution said that the comment was actually, quote, shut it off, referring to the pictures that were on the screen. Lindsay's attorney raised the issue though with the judge demanding a sidebar, even was quoted

Starting point is 00:16:02 saying, this is not like the handmade's tale. You can't tape her mouth shut. And social media went wild with this in favor of her attorney because they believe that that's what they heard as well. The judge later warned everyone that any inappropriate or disruptive comments would absolutely not be tolerated and said that anybody who was making those comments would immediately be removed from the courtroom. He specifically said, quote, if anybody is found to make those comments, they will be immediately escorted out and barred. There are microphones all. around. So if I get a report of that, there's going to be some serious issues and serious problems. There's going to be no warnings, no yellow card, you're out. Now I listened to this hot mic on

Starting point is 00:16:43 repeat and it's hard for me to say what I heard. I think it could have been shut it off. I think it also could have been shut her up. But I wasn't there, obviously. I don't truly know what was said. But that then now brings us into this week. And the theories are going even harder at Patrick that he did this, that he orchestrated it, he framed Lindsay, that she was so unwell that she truly believes that she did this, which is why she admitted to it, and that, you know, he's this master manipulator. So as I started thinking through that, because I'll give you guys this, for those of you who do believe that, there are a lot of questionable things that don't make sense, and there are a lot of inconsistencies. However, they are not fact-based inconsistencies.

Starting point is 00:17:31 there isn't like a cold hard fact that shows he did in fact change his clothes he did change his shoes he did use her apple watch he did leave the window open a lot of it is speculation and a lot of it is hearsay by other people and different third parties but there isn't any actual factual evidence but still does not look great and like i said in my deep dive earlier this week usually when something like this happens i say where there's smoke there's fire i don't necessarily believe leave that to be true in this case. I do think that Lindsay is the one responsible. Do I think he was a shit husband? That he maybe contributed to her mental unrest? Yes, I do. But I don't think that he calculated these murders. But my point is that as I was thinking through all of this, I was kind of

Starting point is 00:18:20 wondering to myself, okay, clearly the defense attorney, Kevin Reddington, is seeing all of this play out on social media. Even if he trusted his client. and believed that her memory was intact and that she did do this. What if he had some sort of seed of doubt now being like, there are a lot of things that don't make sense. Because a lot of people, too, are suggesting that he's laying the footwork for going after Patrick in the future, which I do not think to be the case, but I could be wrong. But anyway, so I was thinking, what if he is having this realization, along with social media,

Starting point is 00:18:55 that Lindsay is in fact innocent and that Patrick did this? Right now, in this tribe, it's not about proving who did this or not, or if Lindsay did this or not. It's about proving her mental state at the time of the murders. So ethically speaking, even if he believed at this point, she did not do this. As a lawyer, ethically, what do you have to do in order, like, do you have to finish out the trial, still fight for her, still fight for it to be by reason of insanity? Or do you shift gears?

Starting point is 00:19:25 If you do complete the trial and she does get found, you know, that she goes into a mental facility for the rest of her life. And then can you appeal that and appeal the charge as a whole based on new evidence and say, we actually don't even think that she committed this crime after all. So we're going to appeal based on all of this new evidence and take this to trial as a murder trial. And there's enough doubt out there that we think she'll be exonerated. I don't know legally what you're allowed to do in that scenario and what he would be allowed to do. So I asked a friend of mine. And I'm not going to put this friend on blast because I don't think that they want to be named in all of this. I mean, maybe they don't care, but

Starting point is 00:20:06 I still just want to be careful. But let me read this to you. So I said, just curious, because this is obviously your area of expertise. If for some reason, Kevin is seeing everything on social media right now and thinks that there's even a sliver of doubt, once they determine at the end of this trial whether she was legally insane or not, could he potentially appeal the entire? conviction and charge based on new evidence. For example, could he argue that this new information now casts doubt on whether Lindsay actually committed the murders at all and then get the conviction vacated? Then take it to a new trial where the question is no longer insanity, but whether she actually did it. And then bring all of this evidence, all of this speculation into that trial. Because even if

Starting point is 00:20:55 none of it is cold hard proof, there obviously seems to be enough speculation that I could see it creating some reasonable doubt with a jury. So could she theoretically end up getting off entirely that way? I just don't know how that works procedurally since she already admitted to the killings and the issue being tried right now is insanity. And if Kevin is already thinking that there could potentially be another avenue down the road, ethically speaking, is there any issue with pursuing the insanity case now, but then later essentially arguing, actually she may not have done it at all after a verdict has already been reached. And I guess more broadly,

Starting point is 00:21:30 for the people who truly believe that Patrick did this, is there any legal avenue or opportunity for recourse at this point? Or has the case essentially gone too far down this path for that to even be possible? And then I said, sorry for the long-ass message. They responded, if she's convicted, she could claim ineffective assistance of counsel or seek a new trial based upon new evidence.

Starting point is 00:21:52 Even people who plead guilty can ask for a new trial if there is newly discovered exculpatory evidence. However, because of the defense in this case, she has likely given incriminating statements already to forensic psychiatric experts, which could be used against her and which the appeals court would consider. The new evidence would have to be newly discovered,

Starting point is 00:22:15 strong, and exculpatory, not just standard reasonable doubt argument issues. That would have to take place for her to have any real chance of success at getting a conviction overturned. So they can't bring in the evidence of the CVS footage or the Apple Watch or any of these other theories unless they did do their own independent investigation

Starting point is 00:22:40 and found concrete evidence that, for example, Patrick sent the email from his computer, not his phone inside the house in the basement at 5.24 p.m. Like, because we know he did send that email, but he said it could have been sent from his phone. not just his Surface Pro. Or we found the Apple Watch and the Pings and the Apple Watch did ping at CVS.

Starting point is 00:23:05 It was with Patrick. Something that is like concrete and definitive, not just theories. If it were a murder trial right now, the theories could come in all day long, right? You're casting doubt. But in order to get the new trial, you need to have cold, hard facts, evidence, and proof,

Starting point is 00:23:22 which this friend of mine does not believe they have, And to their point, said, based on the defense's strategy right now, even though they're not bringing these in, I believe she's already admitted to different psychiatric experts, what happened, what her thoughts were, and what played out. Otherwise, Kevin Reddington would already be trying to challenge a lot of things. So I have a lot more questions that I'm going to ask this person as a follow-up, but I wanted to just share that because I have seen so much discourse online about they're going to, like, he's laying the groundwork because they're going to charge Patrick next. They're going to try to

Starting point is 00:23:59 get Lindsay off. And like, I didn't know if that even is legally possible given the circumstances. So there you go. Wow. I'm out of breath. That was a long update. I need some water. I know. This case is like, it's wild. It is wild. I mean, I was so surprised when you told me there is such a huge camp that is now in belief that Patrick. And I haven't followed as much of the details in the trial as you have, but from what I do gather and what I do know, I just was so surprised that there was such a big group because, of course, I mean, if that is true, sure, we want all of that to come to light, but to think if that's not true, and there's all these people speculating that and this poor man has lost his children and essentially his wife and has had to heal from that and now

Starting point is 00:24:46 has moved on and now could potentially be the one whose finger is being pointed at. Yeah, it's it's very sad and like I will say from what I've seen I put a poll up yesterday on Instagram or two days ago whenever it was on Instagram saying like what do you believe? Do you believe Lindsay did this or do you believe Patrick did this? And I was assuming that the swing was going to go more towards Patrick based on the comment section of my Monday video. But it was actually more, it was like 55 Lindsay 45 Patrick. Still split.

Starting point is 00:25:16 Still split. You wouldn't know it in the YouTube comments on Monday's episode because people are like, I can't believe you're missing this Annie. Like, are you fucking for real right now? And look, maybe I am missing something, but it's possible. But again, I will say this, which I've said it a million times, but I'm going to say it again for anybody who's upset with me. I agree with you that there are a lot of things that don't make sense.

Starting point is 00:25:39 And there are a lot of red flags and inconsistencies that are difficult to make sense of. Those inconsistencies are not rooted in fact. So my thought and my opinion of... about Lindsay's guilt is coming from the facts that we know about the case, her own admission, and the last three years in which if she or her defense attorney were going to try to challenge this in any way, shape, or form they would have. Now, could she have been so medically distraught and delusional that she does believe

Starting point is 00:26:13 that she did this and that she has no recollection? Certainly possible. But like I said in an episode a few weeks ago, if that were all to be true and if Patrick is the true mastermind behind all this, it is more complex than gone girl Verity, girl on the train,

Starting point is 00:26:31 any fiction story we've ever heard. Impossible? No. Likely. Probably not. So that's where I'm at. But hey, prove me wrong, Ann. We'll see. I will eat crow. I know. And you've said that

Starting point is 00:26:46 kind of a few times. I know. And I hate birds. Well, honestly. You know my track record with birds. Annie has a deep rooted fear of birds and they follow her. They do. It's kind of strange. And now TMI, but when we see our deceased father, it's always in bird form. He really does.

Starting point is 00:27:02 Usually it's a deceased word and like, nobody wants that, you know? In the most undesirable place or situation. No, honestly, dad, if you're listening. Please do not. Change species for the love of God. God. Okay, well, since you were good with your prediction last week, I'm going to ask you, what's your prediction for this trial since it's so complicated?

Starting point is 00:27:22 I do think that she is going to be found mentally, legally insane at the time of the murders. And you know what? I will say this too without going off on a tangent. The one good thing that is coming out of this trial is that it is such a clear illustration of how bad the medical system has failed Lindsay and fails women. I mean, having some of these experts and doctors up on the stand, and like them not fucking knowing anything that they're not anything they're talking about. I don't want to like disregard their profession, but like just prescribing medications,

Starting point is 00:27:58 no follow up, poor note taking. If anything, I hope that this trial, because of how high profile it's become, does evoke change within not only the medical systems, but women's health and how seriously they're taken and postpartum issues and all that. I hope that it does highlight a bigger issue and a bigger issue and a big. bigger problem that we have and that these three beautiful children didn't die in vain and that they are helping future women either get the help and support that they need because there is now such a big light on it or helping future women feel comfortable speaking out with what

Starting point is 00:28:39 they're going through. And I would like I don't want to sound like I'm trying to be profound or anything like that. But like these three kids losing their life, I believe. will have saved so many lives in the future. I truly, truly believe that. I really do. Sorry. Okay, let me take it from here. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:29:03 Okay. So this next case is one that we talked about last year, and there's been officially a big turn in the case. And it's very similar to the first case that Annie gave an update on on Courtney Clenney, which kind of leaves us thinking, like, wait, how the hell did this happen? happen and how is this the only punishment that this person received? Okay, so this is the case about Jesse Mac Butler, who was 17 when he was arrested back in March of 2025 after police received allegations that he had sexually assaulted two teenage girls

Starting point is 00:29:34 in Stillwater, Oklahoma. And if you remember, these allegations were absolutely horrific. The girls who were 16 and 17 were described as being restrained, choked until they lost consciousness, and subjected to violence that left them seriously injured and extremely traumatized. One girl suffered injuries that were so severe that she even needed surgery, and the doctors reportedly told the police that with just another 30 seconds without oxygen, it could have killed her. So this was a very, very serious attack. The girls also had told investigators that Jesse had recorded at least one of the attacks. And after he was arrested, he was charged with 11 counts including first-degree sexual assault, attempted sexual assault,

Starting point is 00:30:22 and sexual assault by instrumentation and domestic assault and battery by strangulation. So very, very serious charges. And just a few months later, in August of 2025, he actually pleaded no contest to all of those 11 charges. But this is where things get very complicated and extremely frustrating to my first point. Jesse was facing up to seven, 78 years in prison. But because he was a minor at the time of these crimes, his case was handled under the Oklahoma Youthful Offender Act. So instead of prison, he was ordered to complete 150 hours of community service,

Starting point is 00:31:01 attend counseling and treatment, follow a curfew, stay off social media, and check in with the Office of Juvenile Affairs, which obviously seems very small in comparison to 78 years in prison. And those requirements were sent when he was just 18 years old, and he only had to follow them, get this, until he turned 19. Failure, failure, failure. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:31:28 So now fast forward to last week on August 3rd, literally one day before his 19th birthday, a judge ruled that Jesse had completed everything required of him with zero violations and then formally dismissed the case. Great, so when's he gonna have? a new victim in a week, a birthday present for him. Like, obviously he's going to reoffend. And I don't know if it got me thinking out Anna Kepner. Yes. That was like the first case that I was thinking about when reading this. So after pleading no contest to these 11 counts, Jesse Mac Butler

Starting point is 00:32:02 is now free without even one single day in jail, which that surprised me that it was not even one single jail. That's so frustrating because it's like you can't even rely on Jen Pop to take care of the issue. And you think like there's a 16 and 17 year old girl who were brutally attacked. I don't know the nature in which they came forward, but I'm assuming that was difficult to talk about. And now they have the stigma around. And this is like part of their life forever. And now this guy's already out without serving, not even out.

Starting point is 00:32:32 He's just out and about. Yeah. Just picking up trash on the highway. Like, oh my God. Then during his final hearing, Jesse's attorney reportedly made statements that suggested Jesse was actually innocent and that the victim's allegations were false. But the good news was that the DA was not having it. He said, nothing has made my blood boil more, saying that he didn't know the defense

Starting point is 00:32:57 planned on even making those statements and thought they were really inappropriate given everything that happened. Yeah. Amen. I'll say. He also said that his office plans to submit the case to federal prosecutors for review. But because of double jeopardy, Oklahoma can't prosecute Jesse again for the same offenses, but federal prosecutors could. Well, and that's where Anna Kempner comes in.

Starting point is 00:33:20 I know that case is federal because it happened on the water. But, okay. Maybe that's the saving grace there. Yeah, okay. One of the victims' attorney said that the family is pleased that the DA is seeking next level review and is also considering a civil lawsuit. Meanwhile, Jesse's attorney said that he plans to ask for Jesse's criminal record to be expunged, which means not only would he walk free without serving any prison time, but this would never show up on his record ever. And so my question is like, and I think we've

Starting point is 00:33:52 talked about this with Anna Kepner in specifically, but from state to state then, are the regulations different where they can push to be tried as an adult versus a minor? And so, I mean, obviously, Oklahoma has much looser regulations than I know Florida, there was the element of the water all So. But there was another, who was the most recent, was it Connor, another kid who was like getting married this weekend or a couple weeks ago? Like, what is going on? Well, and that's where I'm curious to know, like, state to state, like, what are they using as their guidelines to decide? And based on these charges and the fact that this, I mean, there are multiple charges and the fact that

Starting point is 00:34:33 30 more seconds she would have potentially been killed, I feel like that seriousness carries a heavier weight than a year of checking in on social media and the fact that he could have faced 78 years that alone shows how serious this was hi that's more than Courtney clennie was facing no no I know that's what yeah you're going to have and pick up some trash and like delete his Instagram great I know so it's officially been dismissed in Oklahoma but it sounds like the families are not going to go quietly on this one and they're going to keep fighting as they should. So I hope that these two girls, I mean, I can't imagine. Imagine being these two girls now and this guy is getting is getting no punishment whatsoever and still live in the same town.

Starting point is 00:35:21 Are they, is there mutual friends? Like, what is that situation? And I just can't even imagine that. It's like this is why women don't come forward because people aren't held accountable. And then they ask themselves, why did I put myself through all of that? Why did I relive all of that during the trial? Why did I even come forward? Why did I ruin relationships and friendships? And, you know, come and do this, even though it's like you should do that. Be courageous, be brave, have a voice and stand up for yourself, but I understand where it's discouraging when shit like this happens. And what about the parents of this kid? Yeah, but the parents only care about protecting their kids, unfortunately. Trying to get his record clean. Yeah. I used to feel like taking supplements meant having

Starting point is 00:36:06 a million different bottles and remembering what to take and when, but IM8 has made it so much easier because daily Ultimate Essentials replaces 16 supplements with 90 ingredients supporting nine major organ systems, and it's all in one drink. It was co-founded by David Beckham, and it was built by leading doctors and researchers. And in a clinical trial conducted by the San Francisco Research Institute, 95% of people who tried it for 12 weeks felt more energy. I recently started using IM8 every day. It has simplified my routine, and I definitely recommend trying it. So go to IM8health.com slash AE right now or click the link in the description and use code AE for a free welcome kit, five free travel sachets, plus 10% off your order. That's code AE at IM8health.com slash AE.

Starting point is 00:36:52 Code AE at IM8health.com slash AE. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This project is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. As you guys know, I spend so much time and money on my skin care, my hair care, but something that I never really thought about, until, gosh, maybe six or eight months ago, was the actual water that I was using in my shower. And I saw the Jolie showerhead all over TikTok. Everybody was talking about. I was like, oh, this is really cute. It's actually very sleek, very nice.

Starting point is 00:37:23 But it's actually so much more than that. It's a filtered showerhead that is designed to remove chlorine and heavy metals from your water. Things that can be really harsh on your skin and hair, which shout out. Today when Amy saw me, she said, this is the healthiest my hair has ever looked. It's such an easy upgrade. It installs in literally minutes. It fits in all showers and the water pressure is amazing. Honestly, it also just makes your shower look so much nicer. It's like this big round showerhead. You can get it in like a ton of different finishes. It looks like a spa. It's beautiful. Kind of gives that like luxury hotel spa-like feel, but without having to redo your entire bathroom. So for me, it's kind of become the baseline of my routine. Before all the expensive skincare, the hair masks, the serums, start with the water that you're actually using every single day. Try Jolie risk-free for 60 days by going to JolieSkinco.com slash A.E. That's JolieSkinco.com slash A.E. Jolie is also available on Amazon and Costco, both online and in-store.

Starting point is 00:38:28 Okay, so very similar to the case that you just talked about. This is another one that I started covering years ago when it first happened, and what is the new update in it has me in a blind rage, okay? because this case, it's one that I think a lot of you will remember if you've been with me for a little bit, but it's the murder of 10-year-old Lily Peters. And this happened in Wisconsin. So on April 24th, 2022, Lily went out with her 14-year-old cousin Carson on a bike ride. She was going back home.

Starting point is 00:39:00 She was over at his house after he allegedly had asked her to go and explore a trail with him while they were, you know, riding back to her place. So she took her bike and Carson took his hoverboard. And when they got out there, he said, hey, like, let's go off on this other path that's like the different route from your house and let's go explore. But then once they got away from the main trail that they were on, Carson attacked her, hitting her with a large stick several times and then strangling her until she died. Then once she was dead, he allegedly sexually assaulted Lily's body. She was his cousin, okay? She was freaking 10 years old.

Starting point is 00:39:40 He was 14 years old. Where the hell does a kid even learn how to do that? His dad, but I've done a deep dive into this case, and that's a story for, you know, a different day. I know. The affidavit says that Carson then got scared after he did all of this, and he ran home. Once he got home, he showered, he cleaned his clothes,

Starting point is 00:39:59 and then he went back to the woods so that he could move Lily's body and cover her with leaves. So Lily's father reported her missing that night when she didn't come home by 9 p.m. And I forget the exact moment. minute. I think it was a seven minute bike ride, maybe even less than that. I remember when this first broke, I think I did a live stream and I like mapped the route out, like everything. I even put it up on Google Maps where you see the turn and then you see the brush where you could go off to. So he,

Starting point is 00:40:25 she didn't get home by 9 p.m. so her dad reported her as missing. And about two hours later, he found her abandoned bike near the woods. The next morning, a volunteer search party found Lily's partially unclothed body in the same wooded area. Her death was ruled homicide, caused by blunt force trauma and strangulation. Two days after her death, Carson was arrested and he was charged with first degree murder and first degree sexual assault. Authorities said that he confessed and that he told investigators that he had planned to murder and assault Lily the whole time. Now, and again, I all link the deep dive here, but there was a big history with Carson's dad. There was also a lot about Carson himself, not only that he planned this, but that he had made threats to his sister,

Starting point is 00:41:10 I believe in the past, that the grandma knew something about different things. It's very complex. So he was initially charged as a juvenile, but in January of 2024, it was determined that he would be tried as an adult, which, yay, okay, great. His trial was scheduled for November 2026, just a couple months from now. And he was facing life in prison if convicted. Now you might hear that I keep talking in past tense, was, was scheduled, was facing. Because now, more than four years after Lily's murder, we have a major development. The district attorney announced that a resolution hearing has been scheduled for August 26th, and they believe that this hearing will bring an end to this case before it even goes to trial, which means plea agreement. But this is also where things do get a little

Starting point is 00:42:00 bit complicated because the records related to the hearing have been sealed. So right now we don't know exactly what is going to happen on August 26th, what agreement might have been reached or what the resolution actually means for the case. But it does mean that after four years of waiting for this case to go to trial, we might finally, yes, be getting some answers, but probably not full accountability. I mean, hopefully it doesn't turn out like the other cases that we're talking about today. Jesse disgusting-ass Butler, Courtney Clenney, all of these cases, because in my opinion, the outcome of those cases, it does not provide any sort of justice, not in any form at all. So when I do hear more about it next week or the following, I will definitely keep you updated. And I probably am going to reopen the case because there's a lot more that I found out about this case and about the backstory when interviewing people.

Starting point is 00:42:53 So stay tuned for that. So the good news is he's being tried as an adult right in Wisconsin so Wisconsin's in other state where they I guess you can try minors as adults but I wonder I mean could you imagine the dad like I'd picture us we're so close with our cousins going out playing all the time like as kids and when we come home the first thing you'd say our parents would ask the cousins like where is Amy where is Annie the last thing you'd think is that they were the ones were responsible. You think they probably separated playing and like, and obviously your mind starts spinning and then to find her still, you're thinking a stranger probably got to them and then to find the discovery. And then was it the dad's sibling son? That I don't remember off the top of my head. I'll have to go back. Because it's like how do you then ever recover your relationship with your sibling? There was a lot of complicated history within the whole family as a whole, which I like went into

Starting point is 00:43:55 and now I have found even more information out. Yeah. It's so sad. It's crazy. Well, this next case is also a very crazy one that started back in June that you may have heard of. And now we have some very new disturbing information. And honestly, the first part of the story sounds bad enough as it is. But then when you hear more about what was actually uncovered by investigators, behind the scenes,

Starting point is 00:44:19 it's absolutely horrific. So this started on Tuesday, June 23rd, when police received a call for a while, welfare check that led them to an apartment complex in Mechanicville, New York, after neighbors were concerned about not seeing a family there for several days. When you see something, say something. And when officers came to check on them, they made a horrifying discovery because inside the apartment were six bodies, all of them decomposed. They were 64-year-old Amy Stedman, her 44-year-old daughter, Sarah's four children, 13-year-old Harper, 11-year-old. old Hudson and 10 year old twins Gavin and Grace Lynn. And right away, the police said they did not

Starting point is 00:45:00 believe that anyone else was involved and that there was no immediate threat to the public. And at that point, it all seemed to be a murder suicide. Investigators say that Amy actually lived in the apartment where the bodies were found while Sarah and her children lived in another unit in the same complex and that Amy was Sarah's mother and children's grandmother. And about a month later, the autopsy results came back and showed that Sarah and Amy had died by self-harm, apparently through poisoning, but that the four children's deaths were being investigated as homicides. One of the children had been fatally stabbed while the other three were to believe to be poisoned. Investigators say that they found evidence of intentional poisoning inside of the apartment, including several prescription and over-the-counter

Starting point is 00:45:45 medications. A handwritten note was also found at the scene near the medication. And then there is the children's father, Brady Harmon. Brady spoke to the reporters from his home in Salt Lake City and said that he hadn't seen his children in person since November 2019 when he and Sarah had separated. He had said that he had spent most of the last six years trying to get custody or visitation of the kids and he was just days away from finally seeing them. The kids were actually supposed to travel to Utah to stay with him from July 1st through September 1st, so a whole summer together with their dad. Brady said that the plan was for them to come be with dad to reconnect with family that they hadn't seen in years and even meet some relatives that they had never even

Starting point is 00:46:29 met before. And for a while, that's where it seemed that this heartbreaking story had ended. But then last week, investigators released new information about what was happening in the days leading up to the children's deaths. And it paints a much darker picture. According to text messages Brady shared on Facebook, the day investigators believe the children were killed, he was supposed to have a scheduled video call with them. And the call never happened. Instead, Sarah told him that the children were sick. She said the kids have gotten a little stomach bug throwing up and asked if they could move the call to the following evening. Brady told her he hoped they would feel better and tried calling the next evening, but Sarah didn't

Starting point is 00:47:10 answer. Police now say they believe the children were killed on June 10th, nearly two weeks before their bodies were discovered. And according to the police chief, there were text messages between Sarah and Amy talking about getting medications, giving those medications to the children where they would kill them and how they would avoid suspicion. And at the same time, Amy and Sarah, believe it or not, said that they believed what they were doing was actually a way to protect the children, which we hear that often, but it sounds more like a custody situation here. And I think the obvious question is protecting them from what? Was it the their father? Was it something else that they had made up? Because if the idea was that they were actually

Starting point is 00:47:52 in fact protecting the kids from their father, he had been fighting for them for years. He was excited for this upcoming time and summer with them, them being reconnected with relatives, meeting people they had never met before. So my question there, though, is like he hadn't seen them in seven years. So was there something else going on that we maybe don't know about? Or did she just, simply not want him to have the kids. Was she worried that she would eventually maybe lose custody as a result? Like, what was maybe brewing under the surface that we don't know? And now he's left trying to understand how this could have happened when he was just

Starting point is 00:48:30 so close to seeing the kids again. But as the chief of police put it, whatever they believed justified their actions, the murder of four children cannot be described as protection, clearly. And that's what makes this so awful is because, obviously, you hear that they're trying to protect the children, which we know is bullshit. But like, I guess there is this happy ending that you see right on the cusp of them being reunited with their father. But like what was it between the grandmother and the mother, both, that they both

Starting point is 00:48:59 developed this plan. Yeah. And we're so resolute in that being the better option than him seeing the kids. Like my gut tells me it's kind of like a Susan Powell situation where if I can't have you guys, no one can. And like they wanted, they didn't want the dad to have custody. or any visitation. However, we don't know why he was absent those seven years and why he lost custody and visitation to begin with. So not that murder is ever the answer, obviously,

Starting point is 00:49:28 but if there was something, if he was a predator or if there was something very dangerous, which there's nothing indicating that that's the case. I'm just saying, like, I could see a world in which they, not to excuse it, obviously, but like, where it's like, you can't go with him no matter what at all cost to where they then get so fanatical and like radicalized in this thought process of how they're going to just all self-eliminate so that he can't get his hands on them. Yeah, because I mean, well, and they're in New York. He's in Salt Lake. So they weren't even near each other. And so was it that, I mean, there are so many questions. But it's just like, were they going to go visit him and be away for two full months? Because I could imagine as a mother

Starting point is 00:50:11 who their kids haven't seen him in years, that would be unscerned. settling, but to take their lives and your own. And for the grandmother to be complicit in that, that must mean that there was like a shared belief there, which is what I'm curious to know what that was. I'm sure more information is going to come out, especially regarding that like period of time, the seven years and like what life was like were all these kids homeschooled? Was there some sort of fanatical beliefs? What, like what was going on? And in fact, if there really was no true rooted fear and there was no bad blood between, I mean, obviously there was some sort of friction. That's why he wasn't seeing the kids. But could you imagine this father who is like so excited to see his children

Starting point is 00:50:55 and I'm sure has put so many plans in play to have this happen right before? Maybe even feels a bit guilty. Like was he the one kind of pushing for this? And like, yeah. Yeah. So sad. I know. Well, speaking of the millicide, apparently it's like that's all we're hearing about in new cases this month. But this next case is one that a lot of you have been DMing me about and asking me to cover. And it's the case surrounding Kaylee Earhart in North Dakota. So on August 6th, police were called to a home in Mandan, North Dakota. And when officers arrived, they allegedly found 22-year-old Kaylee covered in blood. She was holding a kitchen knife at her own throat. Police say that she made a comment about harming herself, but that she eventually dropped the knife and was taken into custody.

Starting point is 00:51:42 However, when the officers went inside the home, what they found was an absolute massacre horror scene. Because inside, they found Kaylee's three children, all of whom had cuts across their necks. The children were just three years old, one year old, and five months old. The three-year-old and five-month-old were rushed to local hospitals, but unfortunately they were later pronounced dead. Amazingly, though, the one-year-old survived after having surgery. And as investigators started piecing together what happened inside that home, they learned that there had allegedly been a violent confrontation involving Kaylee, her husband, and the kid's grandmother, and that this altercation took place just minutes before the attacks. According to the affidavit, Kaylee's husband and the children's father, Cameron, was home at the time. He told investigators that Kaylee had previously talked about self-harm and about killing the children, and that she had recently purchased a gun and had threatened him with him.

Starting point is 00:52:42 it the night before. Then, just before the attacks, Kaylee allegedly chased Cameron and the children's grandmother out of the house with the knife. At some point during that confrontation, she allegedly pulled out the gun, pointed it at Cameron and told him, say goodbye to your kids. And he recorded this entire thing on his phone. Cameron was able to take the gun away from her, and he told the police that he took it apart and then scattered the pieces so that she couldn't get to it. However, during that struggle, He said that Kaylee bit him and scratched his arm several times. The children's grandmother also gave investigators a similar story, telling police that Kaylee chased them out of the home with a knife before allegedly then turning her attention

Starting point is 00:53:24 to the children. Now, police have not said what they believe the motive was, but Cameron did tell them that he was planning to divorce Kaylee before this happened. So, naturally, some people are wondering if that had anything to do with it. Kaylee was arrested on August 6th and is facing multiple charges, including murder, attempted murder, aggravated assault, terrorizing with a dangerous weapon, and domestic violence. At her first court appearance, a judge ordered her to have no contact with the surviving victims or with Cameron or the grandmother, and then set her bond at $3 million. The judge said that her decision was made because of the, quote, extreme violence in these alleged charges and the threat to the community, victims, and children. Now, as of the time of this recording, Kaylee has not entered a plea, but her next court appearance is scheduled for October 6th.

Starting point is 00:54:13 So was this a situation similarly in which if he was threatening to divorce her, she said, I'm going to kill you, kill the kid, you can't, if you're not with me, you don't have anyone. Was this something else? I mean, he got so much of it recorded on his phone, which is like, what great quick thinking to dismantle the gun, take it apart into pieces. scatter the pieces, record on your phone. But then I wonder, even after he got away from her, not that he should have necessarily, I don't know what you do in that moment, but how did she get back in the house

Starting point is 00:54:45 and have time to do what she did? Like, what was that period of time looking like? And so I think we're going to have to dig a little bit for some more information here. I mean, it tells me that she's probably had outbursts in the past if he knew how to, like, to be scared of her enough and to record her and, like, because I mean that is crazy and what's with the kids?

Starting point is 00:55:09 I'm so happy that the one year old survived and I mean at least there is a surviving family member who will be able to take custody of her whether that's the grandmother or the father so that's good but yeah absolutely devastating. There is a lot of familicide happening right now and I don't know what the hell is in the water. I mean I feel like this summer that's why I was in our group chat there is some things we were exchanging information about and I was getting confused on the cases because there were so many similar. And it's just, yeah, I feel like that used to be much more rare. Yeah. All right, guys, well, that is it for this week's episode of headline highlights. Thank you so much for tuning in.

Starting point is 00:55:51 Don't forget there are two deep dives you can go back and listen to right now. And then I will be back on the mic with you on Monday with an all new case. So until then, be nice. don't kill people. Don't kill your children. Leave the kids out of it. Leave the kids out of it. And don't be a teenage predator man who gets away with sexually assaulting your victims. How about that? All right. Bye.

SERIALously - 429: Mom & Grandma Plot Murders, Can Lindsay Clancy Appeal?, OnlyFans Model Gets Away with Murder?

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.