SERIALously - 63: 8 Passengers Update: Ruby Franke's INSANE Claims in Court & More Horrific Details About Jodi Hildebrant

Episode Date: September 21, 2023

Part 1: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/serialously/id1519456164 All Social Media Links: https://www.flowcode.com/page/annieelise_ Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/annieelise About Me: https://annieelise.com/ SERIALously FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/SERIALouslyAnnieElise/  For Business Inquiries: [e-mail] . Video Credits: Law&Crime- https://www.youtube.com/@LawAndCrime KSL News- https://www.youtube.com/@KSLNews KUTV 2 News Salt Lake City- https://www.youtube.com/@KUTV2News Mormon Stories Podcast- https://www.youtube.com/@mormonstories Bonnie Hoellein- https://www.youtube.com/@bonniehoellein Deru Crew Vlogs- https://www.youtube.com/@JulieDeru . *Sources used to collect this information include various public news sites, interviews, court documents, FB groups dedicated to the case, and various news channel segments. When quoting statements made by others, they are strictly alleged until confirmed otherwise. Please remember my videos are my independent opinion and to always do your own research.  •••••••••••••••••• Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this video are personal and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer, or company. Assumptions made in the analysis are not reflective of the position of any entity other than the creator(s). These views are subject to change, revision, and rethinking at any time and are not to be held in perpetuity. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, correctness, suitability, or validity of any information on this video and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses injuries, or damages arising from its display or use. All information is provided on an as-is basis. It is the reader’s responsibility to verify their own facts. Comments on this channel are the sole responsibility of their writers and as such the writers will take full responsibility, liability, and blame for any libel or litigation that results from something written in or as a direct result of something written in a comment. Please feel free to challenge or disagree in the comments section – but 10 to LIFE reserves the right to delete any comment for any reason– so please keep it polite and relevant.

Hey true crime besties, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly. Hey everybody, welcome back to an all-new bonus episode of Serialistly. It's me, Annie, your true crime bestie, here to talk all things true crime with you. Now, the reason why I had to jump on here and drop this bonus episode outside of the normal release schedule is because I need to talk to you about this case. It is so wild. There is so much to talk about, so we got to get right into it. Before we do, please take a quick second. Just make sure that you are following along on the podcast so that you don't miss any future episodes and bonus episodes like these that drop, and also follow along on the Serialistly Facebook page where we drop all information regarding giveaways, behind-the-scenes information,

guest episodes, Q&As, all sorts of good stuff. All right, now let's get into today's case. The case of disgraced YouTuber Ruby Frankie and her cult leader friend Jodi Hildebrandt has captured the attention of both mainstream media and social media over the last couple of weeks. In fact, the sheer magnitude of public interest in this case has been so overwhelming that the initial court appearance on WebEx seemed to have a massive technical difficulty. It like crashed in the middle of it, people weren't muting, people's cameras were on, it was a disaster. Since the first hearing, more people who have suffered at the hands of Ruby and Jodi have also begun to come forward to share their traumatic experiences.

Now what's truly unsettling is that these first-hand accounts closely mirror what is currently unfolding within Ruby's own family and suggest that Jodi's dangerous behavior has actually been going on for years. In addition, there have been shocking interviews with attorneys that have leaked courtroom information, more statements from family members, and new details that make this case even more disturbing, if that's even possible. So as promised, I'm going to be bringing you all of the latest updates and the information that you need to know about this truly horrific ongoing case. As most of you know, Ruby Frankie and Jodi Hildebrandt were arrested on August 30th and charged with six counts each of felony child abuse. Ruby and her husband Kevin Frankie have been criticized for

years for their harsh parenting style and the type of personal content that they were posting about their children on their YouTube family channel called Eight Passengers. When Ruby and Kevin began first having trouble in their marriage, they decided to get help from Jodi, who was a therapist that was highly recommended by the bishops of the Mormon church. Their oldest son, Chad, was also seen by Jodi after Kevin and Ruby believed that he was displaying severe behavior problems. She is actually the one who recommended their controversial choice to send him to a wilderness behavior camp, and now seems to be possibly the one behind many of their questionable parenting decisions. Jodi established a self-help type therapy program

called Connections, which I briefly mentioned in the last video. In this therapy program, she sought to help their clients live in truth. Now, to live in truth, clients needed to learn how to stop living in what she called distortion, which is a term that Jodi came up with to describe things like addiction, codependency, dishonesty, and basically honestly any other human attribute that she deemed to be negative. Now over the years, Jodi's professional license was once suspended for breaking HIPAA laws after she had released personal information regarding one of her clients to the church officials and the client's school. and even brainwashing people into completely cutting off anyone who didn't follow her teachings in the connections group. I mean all behaviors that are in line with a cult leader. So even though Ruby was a client of Jodi's with a therapeutic relationship, the two of them began to develop a close friendship and eventually became business

partners for connections as well. Ruby began appearing on the Connections social media and acting as Jodi's co-host to spread their, quite honestly, toxic and extreme views about living in truth. The closer that Jodi and Ruby became, the more Ruby started isolating herself and her children from everyone, and even split up from her husband Kevin. While people have been commenting for several years about the potential harm that could come from their teachings, specifically in regards to parenting, no one expected that Ruby and Jodi would turn to actual physical harming of Ruby's own children. On August 30th, when Ruby's youngest son, Russell, had escaped from a window of a remote home in Utah, he sought help from the closest neighbor, asking for food and water. The neighbor called police, and we heard that in the emotional

911 call. We heard the details about Russell, that he was emaciated, covered in wounds, had duct tape on his wrists, duct tape on his ankles, and also deep lacerations from being tied up with rope. This kid has obviously been, I think he's been, he's been detained. He's been, he's obviously covered in wounds. Police found Ruby's youngest child, Eve, in the home as well, in similar condition. Ruby's two middle daughters, Julie and Abby, were found to be staying elsewhere and were in good health and physical condition. All of the children were placed in state custody until it can be determined whether or not they should return to live with Kevin,

who many think should be charged as well for his possible complicity in this situation and for his involvement in previous abuse that had been documented on the YouTube channel. So just two days after I did this last video and posted my first video on the whole eight passengers connections situation, Ruby Frankie and Jodi Hildebrandt had their initial court appearance. This was on Friday, September 8th. Now, it's obvious that this case has completely blown up, but I don't think that anyone expected for the hearing to be quite as chaotic as it ended up being. It was honestly very reminiscent of the Adventures with Purpose hearing,

where tons of YouTubers and general spectators logged onto the live stream. But some people forgot to turn off their mics. Other people were yelling at each other. Some were being immature and inappropriate and not even taking it seriously, playing music in the background and trying to make a circus out of this, in my opinion. So ultimately, the judge postponed that hearing. It ended up being really unfortunate for the victims in this case who have waited to have their day in court, but then unfortunately had it completely derailed by people basically just looking for entertainment in all of this. Similarly, on Friday, thousands of people logged on to WebEx to observe Ruby and Jodi's hearings, but many people didn't turn off their mics.

There was a lot of cussing, yelling, shh-ing at each other, some people talking in weird voices, and someone even played the song WAP in the background. If you don't know what WAP is, google what it stands for. Definitely not the place for this. So the hearings were delayed about 45 minutes due to the chaos and the technical difficulties that we're having from so many people being logged onto the platform at once. I even read that some people who actually needed to show up for their own court proceedings weren't able to get in due to the server being full. So ultimately, public access was shut down. was shut down. I think many people, especially younger viewers, forget that even though some hearings are virtual and accessible online, they are legally still actual courtrooms, and people can even be held in contempt for disrupting these proceedings. So the judge

ended up allowing a majority of the media that was physically present inside the courtroom, and also agreed to send a copy of the hearing to others who didn't get in. But anyone left on WebEx were not allowed to live stream it from their own channels. Some people online have argued that if media outlets and maybe a couple of YouTubers were allowed to stream all of the court proceedings, then it would significantly cut down on spectators logging onto the actual platform and limit the amount of disruptions and technical problems. Now, Ruby and Jodi both showed up to these hearings, and I'm going to be honest with you, they were looking completely rough and disheveled.

See the initial appearances of eight passengers, influencer Ruby Frankie and mental health counselor Jodi Hildebrandt. Which is a pretty stark contrast to their typical confident appearance that they portray on YouTube. The judge determined that both Ruby and Jodi will remain on a no bail hold until their bond hearings, which was tentatively set for September 21st. However, Jodi's attorney stated that he would be filing a motion for an expedited hearing, and there was also a motion for both women to be assigned to the same judge. Both of those motions were filed, and Ruby's attorney even filed a motion for an expedited hearing. The court date was changed to September 18th for both Ruby and Jodi. This week, a new filing was made in the court, though, called a decorum order. This order was a guideline of how they expect people to behave, and I'll give

you a hint on what that means. It means in a normal, serious manner, and not as if the case is a joke. There was also a filing made from the state's side to pull the medical records from the hospital that Eve and Russell were treated at. While the initial hearing was pretty mundane and uneventful, it was the shelter hearing in juvenile court regarding Ruby and Kevin's four minor children that has caused even more controversy now. The hearing was held to determine who the children should be placed with at this time, but according to a witness in the courtroom, Ruby made some extremely disturbing allegations against her son, Russell.

Now, don't get me wrong. I want to be clear here. I don't think anyone actually believes a thing that Ruby says. The allegations are disturbing because for a mother to say those things about her little boy, who she was apparently allegedly already abusing in some sort of attempt to justify her actions is absolutely disgusting. Basically, Ruby accused Russell of inappropriately touching other children, including Eve, and she said that he encouraged her to touch other children as well. She said that he disguised this behavior as a padding game and said that he confessed to touching 20 different people, including neighbors and various family members.

She also claimed that he is addicted to pornography and that he has been viewing it since the age of three. So many people are wondering if this alleged touching has been going on and there are so many victims, why didn't she, as the parent, get her child help or report it? You know, other than having her friend tie up the kids in her basement and basically starve them. Also, many people have pointed out that if a child is looking at explicit content from the age of three, then that is a parent issue, not a child issue. age of three, then that is a parent issue, not a child issue. No three-year-old knows how to search those topics, and if they happened upon them by accident at three years old, they wouldn't even have any idea what was going on. Now, other people have wondered why a three-year-old would even be left alone with any type of device long enough to be able to intentionally view that kind of content. It doesn't make any sense,

especially when you consider that Ruby pretty much stuck a camera in her children's faces from the moment they woke up to the moment they went to sleep. So when was Russell supposedly able to do all of this? Others have also pointed out that Kevin and Ruby had cameras like nest surveillance cameras all over their house for security, and to also capture candid moments to then use on their channel. So surely, if he was compulsively looking at all of this from the age of three, they would have known. Not to mention her other children have had their doors, bedrooms, beds, and entire lives taken away for much less. So if he was in fact doing all of this, wouldn't he have undergone some sort of extreme punishment?

I'm sure even if they didn't specify what he did, they would have still used their punishment methods for him as content like they always do. But in actuality, they always had amazing things to say about Russell. Incredibly mature for his age, his ability to empathize with other people and to say about Russell. They even said that he was incapable of lying. So where is all of this coming from all of a sudden? I love Russell's sincerity. I don't think Russell knows how to tell a lie if he tried. He's so honest.

I love his willingness to share. He's very generous. I like that he's like unapologetically himself. I look back at when I was his age and that was not him. I was not empathic at all, but that was just all that happened. I like how he forgives me no matter what I do. Oh, he was very forgiving of me. I also want to mention that in addition to the cameras and the extreme control they had over their children,

it goes back to, if you saw this happening, as a parent, you would stop it. There's no way this would just go you know on a unknown unseen untreated unpunished and whatever by this family additionally we know that they have done things such as hold back food for that for their child at six years old simply for getting their lunch pail at home so you mean to tell me that this son is touching over 20 children inappropriately, has an addiction to explicit content that started at three years old, you didn't know about it, and you didn't do anything about it, yet when your six-year-old left the lunch pail at the house, you basically told the school not to feed them? I mean, it doesn't make sense to me, in my opinion.

I mean, anything could be true, but in my opinion, it seems much more like a Hail Mary and trying to justify her actions and save herself by throwing her child under the bus. Her child that she has already tormented completely, so much so that he had to run to a neighbor for help. One of the most tragic outcomes in all of this other than having your mother completely betray you and attempt to throw you under the bus is that because Ruby has made these allegations, the judge said that Russell will have to be in a household with no other children until the accusations can be looked into further. It is seriously so heartbreaking that Ruby is clearly grasping at straws and trying to use anything to justify her behavior and now her son, who has already suffered so much, will have to be completely

separated from everyone he knows with no siblings for support. I mean, I'm just gonna say it. She is one sick bitch. Some people have also said that these allegations kind of go along with the statement that Jodi had made to a police officer that Eve and Russell should never be allowed around any other children, which kind of makes it seem like Jodi has been perpetuating that nonsense with Ruby possibly. It's also possible that Ruby and Jodi knew that these allegations would cause her children to be separated, which would make them unable to support each other and discuss what has happened to them. It could be another way that Jodi and Ruby are attempting to isolate and control the children. And it could have, quite honestly, been a story that they hatched a long time ago before the

arrests even happened, saying, this is why we're doing this, or this is why we're going to say we're doing this, should we ever be caught, or who knows what is going on in that sick twisted cult and just brainwashing I don't even know so during the hearing there was a woman present in the audience with her attorney who said that her child was an alleged victim of Russell the attorney asked if he could give a statement to the court, and thankfully, the judge said no, because that is just completely inappropriate to just try to insert yourself into a hearing like that. The judge said those types of things will be addressed at a later date, and will likely be in a more private setting considering the nature of the allegations.

Now again, anything could be true, and I'm not trying to discount any sort of harmful behavior that any of these children did potentially inflict. We know what happened with the Duggar family. I'm not saying that these kids at all are like that, but we know it does happen. However, I wouldn't doubt that if that woman was a member of Connections and was one of Ruby and Jodi's minions who was trying to put weight into this

crazy story, I believe crazy story, that Ruby has concocted. Over the last week, there have been interviews with several well-known attorneys weighing in on this case too, including Johnny Depp's former attorney Ben Chu. He believes that Ruby's allegations against her children are only going to hurt her case in the long run. Claim that two of her children were playing some sort of padding game, didn't go into further detail. Talked about how one of the children was watching pornography at a young age. It's so shocking. And I'm not sure what that means to her defense or what that means to her case for her to make this kind of claim. I think it's tremendously detrimental to her case. First of all, I mean, she should have,

if any of this were true, she should have reported it at the time rather than waiting to be arrested and arraigned. So that's number one, because if that abuse was going on, that's on her and her husband to the extent that the husband was there, which I understand he may not have been. So we shouldn't impugn him at all right now. But that all points the finger at her. And also the fact that she would make those allegations against her own children in a public forum.

Now, I don't know whether she identified the child, but it wouldn't be hard to figure out since it's a finite universe of six. I think it's terrible for her defense. I think it also shows it doesn't shine a very good light on her character that she would say these things in public, even if true. He also brought up a great point that Russell and maybe even Eve can eventually file defamation lawsuits against Ruby in the future. And even if she's in prison, I really hope they do it anyway if these allegations are in fact false. Corey Richen's attorney, Sky Lazaro, lives in Utah as well and has given her opinion on the case too. opinion on the case too. She said that typically in cases related to child abuse and harmful activity, attorneys on both sides will usually do everything they can to strike a deal so that the children don't have to be re-traumatized by testifying. She said that the attorneys in Ruby

and Jodi's case will probably try to work out a deal long before it would ever go to trial. The state doesn't want to put the kids on to have to talk about it again. Nobody wants to cross-examine them ever. There have been several other attorneys on the news and YouTube discussing all of the legalities, but some of the most interesting and telling interviews have been with Kevin's attorney, Randy Kester. This week, Randy sat down with Jesse Weber on Law and Crime Network, and he seems to have given more of an explanation for one of everyone's main questions, which is, why was Kevin Franke supposedly absent during all of this? How could he truly not know?

We already knew that Ruby and Kevin were separated for about 13 months, and I think that most of us have been able to guess that Jodi was probably the catalyst in that. According to Randy, more issues had started to arise between Ruby and Kevin over a difference in opinion about their parenting. He wouldn't specify what exactly the issues were, but years ago, Kevin and Ruby used to seem on the same page regarding their parenting style. So it probably had to do with whatever Jody was wanting them to implement. There hasn't ever, ever been an allegation that Kevin Franke has ever physically abused his

children. And I think all these parenting complaints, those were investigated. And I think it's a subjective thing, parenting. As everybody says, no one's ever written the perfect book on parenting. And so while there may be some criticism of their parenting as being too strict or too demanding, that's been looked into. And there were never any DCFS charges filed. There was never any criminal charges filed in particularly, and I want to emphasize this, Kevin Franke has never been accused of physically abusing anyone, including his children, nor have there ever been any allegations that he was doing that. He doesn't condone that kind of thing. He's a good dad. He just simply

does not condone physical violence or that kind of treatment of children or anyone. Family members have also come out and have said that after Kevin and Ruby came to Jodi for help with their family and their relationship, she actually moved in with them between 2021 and 2022. They said that the first thing she did was separate them so that they could heal and she had them living and sleeping on separate sides of the house. During this time Kevin wasn't even allowed to speak to Ruby unless Jodi was present. Now if I had to speculate I would think that after a while Kevin would stop being okay with this and probably started feeling like instead of bringing him and his wife closer together Jodi was creating more

distance and pushing them further apart creating her divide trying to pull them apart so that she could then start her tactics on Ruby in my opinion now if he had mentioned this to Ruby and Jodi, well, then he must have been in what Jodi calls distortion, and it was soon after that Ruby told him that he needed to move out if he wanted their marriage to work, which there isn't a doubt in my mind that Ruby was doing exactly what Jodi told her to do. Kevin's attorney said the exact same thing, that Ruby told him that if he wanted to save their marriage, he needed to have no contact with the children and that she would contact him. So, first of all, their current status, were they separated? Correct.

They were separated, I read, for 13 months, so they weren't living with each other. How much was he seeing the kids? Almost not at all. Actually, not at all. Why is that? Because she told him it was better that they needed to work on their marriage and needed to keep their family together, but that everything was better off with him not in the home and not communicating with the children. However, his attorney also said that prior to the arrests, Kevin had not heard from Ruby in months. At Ruby's instruction, Kevin blocked all of the children's phone numbers and has had no contact at all with any of his children in the 13 months that they have been separated. So obviously Kevin just willingly going along with essentially abandoning his children because Ruby said so

seems pretty awful. But his attorney had this to say about it. Why were they separated? What was the catalyst? I probably shouldn't go into that. That's pretty private. But let's just say they were, they had a difference of opinion about their family. Parenting? I know you can't talk about it, but is that kind of where we're going? Correct. Okay. And their own personal dynamic.

Okay. So he was living separate from her. Was he calling the kids? Because I think what a lot of people are looking at this and they're wondering, well, what did he know? So he might have been living separately from her for 13 months, but he wasn't calling the kids, checking in and the big question on a lot of people. If you've read everything that's in the media, he's getting raked over the coals for that. But what people don't understand is that he was trying to preserve his marriage. He was taking direction from her. She's the one who asked him to leave the house and indicating that in order for him to be able to get back together with her and be a family, that she was requesting that he leave the home and that he not contact them or the children. Later told him that everything was blissful at home. It was so

much better without him. Did he ever believe that the kids were in danger? Did he ever believe that Ruby might've been doing something to the kids? He had nothing to indicate that. So again, I know you're limited in what you can say, but just again, piecing that together. If he, if Ruby Frank told Kevin, Frankie, excuse me, Ruby Frankie told Kevin that, you know, it's better off he's not part of the home and, you know, that he lived separately from them and not to have any contact. He just took that as, okay, that sounds like a good idea. Or did she prevent him in any way from seeing the kids? Did he want to see them and talk to them? And she told him no. Emotionally, she was controlling him because she knew how much he valued their marriage and valued their family.

And it was his desire to be able to get back with the family and preserve his marriage. So he was taking direction from her and her direction was it's so much better off and I think we can salvage our marriage if you just for now don't have communication with the kids and I will communicate with you I'll reach out to you when we need to have communication and even though they had a difference of opinion possibly about parenting that never gave him a concern to hey you know what maybe I should check in because if it seemed like it was a big enough issue for them to separate, it didn't seem like an issue for him to check in on. Kevin never had any reason to believe that his children were being abused. If he had even one inkling that his kids were being abused and that this separation wasn't for any other purpose than to figure out a way between he and Ruby to reunite their family,

he would have been down there in two seconds. He just had no idea. He had no idea. He had no idea that this was going on. No, physical abuse had never been a part of their family. but a lot of the dynamics between he and his wife changed after uh jody hildebrand partnered up with ruby the main thing that bothers me about the statement if he knew that he no if he knew he would have been there in two seconds is that if kevin had all of his children's numbers blocked even chad and sherry's how would any of them have been able to let him know that something was going on, that something bad was happening? People have been asking that if he saw

Ruby getting deeper and deeper with Jodi and had an issue with some of the parenting techniques, then why would he have left them with no way of even contacting him? Kevin was on board in the past with some pretty harsh punishments, so it seems like whatever new techniques that he was having a problem with must have been even more extreme. And that's pretty terrifying to think about when you consider what actually ended up happening. I understand he wanted to save his marriage, but as a parent, I could never stay away from my children for over a day,

let alone over a year, to fix our marriage and repair our family. Obviously, if a parent has serious issues like addiction, anger problems, or something where it's important for the children's safety to create that distance, then that's another story. Kevin's attorney even said that once he was gone, Ruby told him that everything was blissful at home and better without him. So it kind of seems like she had no intention of reunifying their family, especially when she hadn't even contacted him in months to work on their marriage. But what was so wrong with Kevin that literally being banished alone to a townhouse would have been warranted? Some former clients of Jodi's may help us understand that piece of all

of this a little bit more. In my last video, I read a Facebook post from a man named Adam Paul Steed, whose life was destroyed by Jody Hildebrandt. He was the client who Jody had reported to the church officials and the higher-ups at his Mormon college, claiming that he was addicted to explicit content and ultimately led him and his wife to getting a divorce. Now let me just say, the addiction to explicit content. Sounds familiar, huh? Sounds like a tactic that could be used, right? However, another former client has come forward as well, with an eerily similar experience from his time during Connections. Trey Warner stated in an interview that Jodi would use manipulation tactics to convince people, primarily men, that they were dangerous and would pit husbands and

wives against each other rather than bringing them closer in their marriage. Prior to Connections, Jodi's main focus was on helping people overcome explicit content addiction and other actions that come along with that. She'd utilize things like this as a way to shame people and even make them think that something was wrong with them. Trey said that he and his wife started attending connections classes to improve their marriage, but after just a few sessions, he started to feel suspicious of Jodi and even thought that what was going on was evil. He voiced his concern during one of their group meetings because he felt so disturbed by the way that Jodi was shaming men into thinking

that they were dangerous and harming their families for normal thoughts and behaviors. He said that there was a man in his class that had a very successful business and a good family, but because he admitted to doing a double take of a woman that he found attractive, his thoughts were said to be impure, and he was a danger to his wife and his kids. Jody convinced the man to get an apartment and live away from his family because he was so dangerous, which again, just sounds awfully familiar. The angry comments coming into the Connections Classroom social media pages now are just the beginning, according to former client Trey Warner. He joined a support group at the recommendation of a friend trying to improve his marriage. But after a while,

he says he grew more suspicious of what Jodi Hildebrandt was teaching. It started to feel more and more evil. And I finally, in one of the group meetings, I got up and I just said, this is off. Warner claims Hildebrandt would use shaming tactics to turn husbands and wives against each other, adding that she would convince men that their impure thoughts made them dangerous to their families. He says he saw one case during a group session. There was a man that had successful business that believed that he was a danger to his wife and his family because he did a double take as a

woman like if he saw a beautiful woman he he would see and he'd look again this guy got his own apartment and separated from his family because he was a danger in some cases warner claims husbands were separated from their families for so long they were considering suicide they felt so sick and like such a failure that they just felt like they shouldn't be here anymore. At least be original, Jodi. At least like have a pool of five different scenarios that you use on these families rather than going back to your staple one. Like get original at least in your tactics. But I guess why get original if this one seems to work so well with so many different families?

if this one seems to work so well with so many different families. So he said that there have been other cases where husbands were separated from their families in the same way, and they felt so alone, so isolated, and ashamed in themselves that they actually considered taking their own lives. Trey believes that since Jodi has been arrested, more people will come out with their own horror stories with her and their time in connections. So hearing that makes me definitely think that it's possible

for Jodi and Ruby to have convinced Kevin that he was a danger to his family, and that if he did what they said and tried to fix himself, then he would eventually be able to come back home. All of that information definitely sheds some light on what might have gone on with Kevin and Ruby. However, in my opinion, recent interviews with one of Jodi's nieces have been the most shocking and show that Ruby's children are far from her first victims. Jodi's brother's child, Jesse Hildebrandt, went on the Mormon Stories podcast and on KUTV2 News in Salt Lake City to discuss the disturbing parallels between her experiences with Jodi as a child and what is going on now.

Jesse uses they them pronouns so we will be respecting that through this story. Jesse's interview with Mormon Stories was over three hours long so I'm going to summarize their story as best as I can and play a couple of key clips from it. But I highly encourage you to go and watch both of the full interviews with Jesse. Their experience is absolutely heartbreaking, but it's also insightful, inspiring, and really helpful to understand who Jodi actually is as a person from someone who was very close to her. Jesse was raised in an Orthodox Mormon family, and her father is Jodi Hildebrandt's brother. From a very young age, Jesse knew that they were what they would have described as queer and not being able to express themselves, to be authentic and open with their family, and this was really hard on Jesse. Like most teenagers, Jesse

had that typical teenage angst, but as a highly sensitive and emotional person living in a strict Mormon family, expressing those things was not considered acceptable. So Jesse often felt confused, depressed, angry, and lonely, and they were often compared to their siblings, who were relatively well-behaved. But Jesse was seen more as the problem child. Again, sounds familiar. At around 15 years old, Jesse began arguing more with their parents and running away, which was really scary for their mom, who wasn't sure how to handle a child like that. That summer, Jesse went with their grandparents to the grandparents' 50th wedding anniversary party, and after dinner, Jesse was asked to do the dishes. However, at the time, Jesse was a vegetarian, and the meal that was served was

primarily meat, so they didn't eat anything at the party. Jesse has said that even though looking back it was a bratty teenager thing to do, they put up a fight about having to do the dishes and stomped off to the basement. Jesse ended up falling asleep and a few hours later someone knocked on the basement door. It was their grandparents and Jodi. And they said, Your family left and you're not going with them. Your life is about to change. So apparently while they were asleep, Jesse's parents were fed up with

their behavior. So Jodi told them to just leave Jesse with her and she would straighten things out. I get a knock on the door. I was asleep and it was Jodi and my grandparents telling me that my family had left and I wasn't going with them and that my life was about to change pretty dramatically. I still remember that moment as just, it's completely galvanized itself onto my soul. It was, you know, in movies when they do the, like they zoom in and pull out at the same time, it was like, that's that really wild It was like that really wild kind of effect. That's how it felt. And yeah, everything changed in that moment.

Back at Jodi's house, she started off by taking away anything that gave Jesse a sense of worth, such as cutting their long hair, withdrawing them from school, and not allowing them to speak with anyone. Jodi said that all of those things were a distraction from the evil inside them. Jesse also said that even though Jodi was their aunt, Jodi would conduct formal therapy sessions, which is completely inappropriate for someone to do with family members in itself, but also said that even outside of the formal therapy, everything she did was considered therapy for Jesse. Basically, staying with Jodi was just a big, long therapy session from hell. Jodi would come up with things like revelations in her dreams, which is very reminiscent of Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell,

which is very reminiscent of Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell. And she was convinced that Jesse was a drug addict, a sex addict, and that they had multiple abortions, even though they had never done drugs or had sex before at all. Jodi wouldn't let Jesse have any privacy, even in the bathroom, because she was convinced that they were constantly touching themselves. She wouldn't even allow Jesse to use tampons because that was another sign of being a sex addict. At the time, like, I was, I was giving Book of Mormons out at school. I had never done drugs. I had never had anything close to sex. I didn't even know. She was convinced I was also masturbating. I was a,

like, I had a masturbation problem. I didn't even know female anatomy people could masturbate. Every time Jessie tried to deny the things that Jodi was saying, she would put duct tape over their mouth because everything that came out of their mouth was a lie. Jodi had Jessie duct taped basically at all times other than at church, but they were still not allowed to talk to anyone at all, not even a single word. People would ask Jesse if everything was okay because they started to notice how sad they looked and the injuries from Jodi forcing them to run sprints for hours and sleep on the ground or even outside in the snow. But Jesse wasn't allowed to say anything. Some people went and voiced their concerns to the bishop of the church,

who then turned around and told Jodi what they said and who said it. So Jodi would then blame Jesse and say that all they wanted was attention, and they were manipulating people into thinking that something was wrong with them. So Jodi forced Jesse to get into the car and drove them to all of the people's houses and made them apologize for being manipulative and for making them think that something was wrong. It's just absolutely disgusting. Jodi also told Jesse that anger, sadness, and even depression are a result of pent-up shame, which is a result of sin. The longer that Jesse was in Jodi's care, the more depressed they became, and Jodi said that it must have been because there was just so much sin left inside of them that they hadn't confessed to her yet. So she would just have to take even more extreme measures.

Jesse said that in an attempt to just get Jodi to stop all of this abuse, they ended up confessing to a lot of things they didn't do. this abuse, they ended up confessing to a lot of things they didn't do. I wanted to make my life so uncomfortable that it would force the sin out, that it would force me to confess. So things continuously got worse and worse and progressively more and more intense as a way to get me to confess because she believed that if I had confessed everything, if all of my sins were out and in the open, that I would be getting better. And I was declining like very fast exponentially. And so she just kept ramping it up. And so to hear Ruby tell the world that her child is a sex addict, a predator, and has been addicted to porn since he was three years old it just echoes

exactly the things that she was telling me and telling everyone around me um and i know that i i think if i got i don't know if i got this right but i'm pretty sure that she's saying that he even confessed to it well i also confessed to things that i didn't do as a way of trying to get the abuse to stop. Because when you, when she's like drilling it into you, both psychologically and physically, that there's more and it will stop once you tell her, because that's what she would tell you. Like in the middle of the abuse, she'd be like, I'll stop as soon as you tell me, as soon as you tell me what's going on, like what you did. Oh, she was also convinced that I had had abortions. She was a convinced I went, she made me do 12 step because she was convinced I was an addict,

like a drug addict as well. I'd never done drugs. I'd never had sex again. I didn't know that masturbation was even possible. I had no idea what these things were. Um, so I would start, I just started making things up as a way as like trying to get this to stop because I had no, no one there to, to help me and to save me. And I even, I think I even said that on the podcast that I was making things up. And when I spoke to the detective down in St. George days ago, I told her that as well as like, I, and so even if he had confessed, And so even if he had confessed, it cannot be taken seriously because this child was being tortured. And I'm certain that she echoed those words of like, if you tell me, I will stop. So what is happening just echoes so close to home of what she did to me. Jodi was just obsessed with them confessing to these sins

and was conducting spiritual surgery to save their soul. They really thought that they were this horrible, dangerous, sinful person because that's what Jodi drilled into their head day in and day out. There was so much more that Jesse said, but basically Jodi manipulated everyone, including Jesse, into thinking that they were such a horrible person that they needed extreme measures to save their soul. She also convinced Jesse's family that everything Jesse said was a lie and that they just wanted to manipulate everyone into feeling sorry for them. One thing I've wondered through all of this is how Jodi was as a mother to her own children.

Jessie said that they actually were really close to Jodi's daughter, who had many of the same experiences, and apparently she ended up leaving her mother's care around 15 years old to go and live with her dad. Jessie said that her cousin changed her name and wants nothing to do with Jodi. Jessie didn't mention Jodi's relationship with her son, but it doesn't appear that they have a very close relationship either. Jesse mentioned that after Jodi's short marriage to her ex-husband, she basically did everything in her power to destroy his life. She tried to get him excommunicated from the Mormon church, tried to start rumors about him, and it seems like she might hold some resentment toward

him for moving on and remarrying. Some people have speculated that this may be one of the reasons why Jodi seems to hate men so much and seems hell-bent on destroying everyone else's marriages because hers didn't work out. In my first video, I talked about how some people think that Ruby and Jodi might have a special type of friendship, if you will. And there have been other ex-clients who claim that she had inappropriate relationships with their wives as well. Now, what's interesting in this is Jodi has been outwardly homophobic in her connections videos, which some think could actually indicate that she feels shame in herself for liking women, so she tries to take a radical stance in the public eye in order to seem as straight as possible. Jessie, who is a part of the LGBTQ plus community, was asked

their opinion on if Jodi could possibly be hiding that part of herself. Jessie said that they weren't sure, but that there was one thing Jodi said in the past that caused them to think that it could be possible. Jesse had confessed to Jodi that they had experimented with girls and friends when they were younger, and Jodi told her that that was evil and sinful, but also said, being gay is an evil pleasure of the flesh, but if I were to have sexual relationships with my friends it would be different because there is a deep emotional connection there and that is different. An odd thing to say. So it is possible that Jodi develops these deep emotional connections

with women like Ruby and then justifies it because real gay people just can't have deep connections, according to her. So obviously whether Jodi is gay or not doesn't matter. The only reason that it's irrelevant in the possible power dynamic she has with her clients and the fact that she actively tries to destroy marriages. If she is then romantic with these clients, that is a whole other level of inappropriate for a therapist, especially a Mormon therapist who publicly condemns homosexuality. Now, I also want to mention, not only is it kind of one of those like, oh, thou who protests too much type scenarios with possibly being gay, but also with trying to pin all of the men and all these people

with having an addiction to explicit material don't use tampons don't watch material don't have a bad thought don't think anyone's attractive is that again an internal struggle that Jodi has herself and so she's trying to save everyone else who she thinks has that same struggle and is pushing it on them and projecting maybe all of that being said jesse said that one of the reasons they came forward with their story is because of the allegations that ruby has made toward russell and eve again the only reason why i'm coming forward, I was not planning on coming forward to the media other than just doing the podcast interview, is when I heard that Ruby accused her child of this. And I just hope that this can give the public some context and some clarity of what is happening and why they should not believe her. Jesse's experiences echo so much of what we already know

about what happened to Ruby's children. And there is clear that there is a pattern here. Jodi obviously has a tendency to just make things up and then forces people to admit to sins that they didn't even commit in order to make the abuse stop. Or maybe, like in Kevin's case, get their family back together. Jesse also said that Jodi even views things like mainstream media kissing as porn. So there's no telling what, if anything, all of these addicts were looking at

or what all these predator husbands were even doing. The last thing I wanted to touch on here too was that even though Jesse thinks that Ruby is at fault as well, that based on what they know about Jodi, she definitely is the mastermind behind all of this and can get anyone to believe pretty much anything. I understand this, but it's interesting to watch the world respond to her and kind of putting her at the forefront. And I understand that she's the mother of these children and it makes sense, but the philosophies and the therapeutic modalities that she's using are Jodi's. And these are, these are not new.

These are not, this, this is a pattern that Jodi has been engaged with for at least 14 years. I don't know if there are other people that she's used these on, but she's definitely taught. I know that she teaches parents to use these types of, um, therapies as she, as she would call them. Um, so yeah, it's been a, it's been a really interesting experience watching everyone focus on Ruby and I understand why, but this is Jody.

These are Jody's words. These are Jody's ideas. These have are over decades old. So yeah. Is that why you've called Jodi the mastermind behind all of this? Yes. That doesn't excuse Ruby's involvement and her perpetuating these beliefs and these systems, but Ruby didn't come up with this. And she is remarkably convincing. She is also terrifying if you cross her because she has and will systematically destroy your life. She destroys your reputation. She destroys any of your credibility. So even because there are definitely people that have been speaking out against her. I mean, she was she lost her license because of someone speaking out in 2012.

Like this is not she's not just everyone's not just been like, OK, yeah, for sure. Free, fair game, free, free for all. People have been criticizing her. That's just that no one has listened because Because one, we have a culture of people not believing children and not trusting children. And also children trust their parents and then the parents trust the church. So there's been, and Jodi, what she does that's so tricky is that she utilizes and uses whatever is available. Within the last week, two of Ruby's sisters, Julie and Bonnie, have come out with more videos explaining their thoughts on the whole situation. Now, I do want to say that Bonnie's second video was much more thoughtful than her first one.

It was complete indoctrination of this thing that they created. I don't agree with how extreme they are on everything. I knew they were weird. I knew that they were off. Those are the things that we kept quiet about because what was I going to say? What was I going to do? I was not going to come out and publicly say that I don't like my sister and I don't like what she's doing and I think she's weird. That is what we kept quiet about. It wasn't until about a year ago when we were able to reconnect with Sherry. Again, we kept that quiet. We never came out and said anything. You guys saw us together and those were little glimpses when Sherry was ready to allow us to show those glimpses with her permission. And it was then that we were learning slowly bits and pieces of more. And that's where the part of behind the scenes, we did everything that we could.

We did everything legally that we could do. And for those that were saying that they'd go in and bust down doors and do whatever it took to end up in jail, because from jail, I can't do anything. I can't do anything. So I still stand by what I said is that I did everything that I could with the knowledge that I had and within the legal rights to Ruby and Kevin. The one person that could have done something within his legal right was Kevin. We had zero contact with him. It was Kevin's job to check in on things and he did not. So when I say that Ruby and Kevin and Jodi and Connections have been destroying our lives offline for the last three years, that is exactly what they've been doing, causing turmoil within our family. Us, we would talk in circles because nothing made sense. Nothing made sense of what they were saying, of what they were doing.

And it was off the wall. We didn't, we couldn't make sense of what they were doing and why and this is where my anger comes in their actions have cast the worst light on me on other members of our family and i have decided that I am no longer allowing them to have any control over what I do. In Julie's video, she said that after Ruby cut off their family, their mom actually almost had a heart attack and was so heartbroken that her health seriously declined. I was very fortunate to have been able to reach out to her daughter Sherry once she was an adult, and we were able to form a really close, strong relationship, which I am grateful for.

And it was then that I learned more about Ruby, and it was then that Sherry had learned about lies that had been told to her. I feel like me and my other sisters have said, we feel like we've just been kind of floating on a cloud here these past few weeks. We are in complete shock still as to what she had done because we had no idea of what was happening. Basically, I'm here to say that I had no idea what was happening. Like Bonnie mentioned in her video, we are not destroy another thing in

apparently Ruby and Jody some time in the jail me health issues. Jody's ato to expedite the bond hear from a life threatening h caused her to be in the h days. It's unknown why Ruby was in the medical ward. Maybe she's just feeling really distorted.

Who knows? Tentatively, a mediation hearing is set for June 15th in juvenile court. So what are your thoughts about all of this and the updates? To be honest, I think that Jesse Hildebrandt and the former client's statements mirror exactly what's going on here. The fact that Ruby just all of a sudden has all of these horrible things to say about Russell and even Eve just goes to show the kind of mother she is. She is literally willing to say anything to implicate anyone but herself, and I am betting that after being separated for a little while, Ruby and Jodi will start turning on each other, if they haven't already. Some people are saying that Ruby only said that about Russell because she's mad at him for getting her in trouble,

but regardless of the reason, it is plain evil. There is nothing a child could do to make it okay to tie them up, to starve them, emotionally and physically manipulate and abuse them, and keep them locked in your creepy cult leader friend's basement. Actually, when I was looking around Jodi's neighborhood, I noticed that the area right in her backyard is called Hell Hole, which is pretty fitting. And the fact that the jail Ruby and Jodi are in is called Purgatory Correctional Facility is definitely a little bit of poetic justice.

The stories coming out now make the situation even more horrifying to think about with what all Ruby and Jodi did to those babies, and I'm sure over the next couple of months, more and more stories will begin pouring in. I did want to address one thing I saw in a few comments of my last video regarding the church and the LDS community. There were some comments saying to leave the church out of it and that none of this has to do with the church, but in my opinion in this situation, it does. There are good and bad people in all religions, regardless of their beliefs, but when a crime happens and the perpetrator is using their religion as an excuse or as a way to gain people's trust

to manipulate them, it does need to be mentioned to give more context to the situation. It just so happens that a lot of the stories that we hear like this lately have some ties to the LDS church, and rather than condemning the entire religion, I do think it's important even for members of the church to try to figure out why. In no way in this case am I trying to be disrespectful toward the vast majority of LDS members who are good people and good parents. But we do have to examine if there is potentially something happening in the church culture that lends itself to these types of things happening. And that's with any church, group, or cult. There will always be people who twist

religious texts to or beliefs to fit a certain agenda and we have to call it out when it's being done as an excuse to hurt people. So let me know what you think about this case in the comment section. I'm still curious about people's opinions regarding the children's placement. The goal of DCFS is always family reunification whenever possible, and I know a lot of times children can be taken out of one bad situation and put into another. At the same time, if Kevin is just now coming to terms with how much he's been manipulated, it might be a good idea for him to go through some actual therapy before he's able to help heal his children. He's been away from the kids for over a year, and he essentially abandoned them with no explanation as to why and then blocked their phone numbers. So he might not be the best

person for them to feel safe with unless he's able to see and admit how damaging that was. But even then, I'm not so sure still. I just hope that right now they're with the nicest, warmest, most loving and caring family that they could possibly be, who can try to help them through this as best as they can. I also hope that Ruby's allegations are quickly investigated and proven to be baseless, so that Russell can be with his siblings. So let me know what you think about everything we've learned so far, and as promised, I will keep you updated on the latest information in this case guys thank you so much for tuning in to another bonus episode with me

like I said at the top of this episode make sure you're following the podcast so that you don't miss any more bonus episodes in the future and if you would be so kind as to just quickly rate this podcast review it it takes 30 seconds max to leave a review and it really does help the algorithm and help push this podcast out to more people so that these victims stories get heard which we know is the goal so thank you guys so much for tuning in to another bonus episode and I will be talking to you again very very soon all right it's me Annie signing off. Thank you.