Sex, Love, and What Else Matters - Behind the Screen with Joey Sasso

Episode Date: August 10, 2023

Episode 53. This week, Kristen and Luke are joined by Joey Sasso to talk about what it’s really like filming reality TV. Joey was the winner of the Netflix reality show, “The Circle” Season 1. He was also on “The Perfect Match” and the upcoming Amazon Freevee show, “The Goat”. Joey talks about living authentically, mental health, the beauty in being flawed, as well as his sobriety. They also discuss his dating history and his view on sex.  Sponsors: Visit OliveandJune.com/DOUTE for 20% off your first Olive and June System! Kitsch is offering you 30% off your entire order at MyKitsch.com/doute Download the DraftKings Casino app NOW, sign up with promo code DOUTE, and new customers get a deposit match up to ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS in casino credits when you deposit $5 or more! Go to Hungryroot.com/KRISTEN, to get 30% off your first delivery and get your free veggies. Follow us: @kristendoute @luke__broderick Email us: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi you guys, I'm Kat and I hope you come hang out with me on KatSatlerNow. On my weekly podcast I continue to ask the questions. I've been interviewing people for more than 25 years now, but that doesn't mean I found all the answers. Make sure to listen to KatSatlerNow wherever you get your podcasts. That's all by the way, magical listeners. Loving you so much on this beautiful day. Luke and I are back. Welcome back to another episode of Sex Love and What else Matters.

And we have a guest that we've been trying to lock down and I'm so excited and you guys are going to be two. Joey, Sasso, welcome to ThePod. What up, fam. Thanks for having me. This is not really exciting because I think we've all been in the position before. We're like, we're in this business.

Every friend has a podcast and it's always like, yeah, of course, I'll come on and we'll shoot the shit. And like, I would always do that. But But like when we were texting, we were actually talking about like real shit. And I'm like, oh, this will actually be really fun to talk about because I'm pretty much an open book. And you know, I feel like there are a lot of people who I think you can agree with. Like you get to know in the business. You know them on the real level, but then you also know that the level that they put out there, that they don't want to show where I totally mean you are both the type that's like, this is who we are, take it or leave it. Exactly. So I want to say really quickly how I personally

know Joey, I was a fan first and foremost of the circle. Circle season one, as everyone knows, Joey was the winner. If you call it a winner, it's like you were the favorite. Like everyone loved you, you played yourself on the circle, you didn't cap fish, and you were number one. Yeah, it's weird, dude, because that show has been around a couple of years now, and of course at the time, being the first winner and whatnot, changed my life, catapulted my career. I've been struggling in LA at that point for almost 10 years being a struggling actor,

writer, you know, aspiring filmmaker. And, you know, it's funny and retrospect, it's sort of like being the winner of the show for me is the thing I think about the least, because, you know, it, we were Netflix's first real reality show. And I made so many amazing friends and I thought the show was going to be a huge flop because I don't watch reality TV and I'm sitting there in the UK and I'm like, what the fuck? We're sitting here talking to screens and shit and like, yeah, we're all friends

and it's great, but like nothing's happening. I'm like, what I know about reality TV is people hook up and fight and we're not doing that. So I was surprised when the show came out and it just completely took off. I did not expect that. And I think it's pretty cool that the reason people really responded to the show was the fact that it wasn't those things that people are used to. And it was, wow, this is actually strangely wholesome. And people like me and other of my friends represent a certain box

in society that people judge, but instead of judging it, while you judge us in the beginning and by the end, you see like, oh, we're actually nice. And more than just what you think. I mean, it was just a crazy experience, man. It changed my life. It got my career off the ground.

And I'm just forever grateful, I'll never have anything bad to say about that experience. And the wild thing is with the circle for me as a viewer, because strangely enough I too am not a big reality TV show watcher. I do like competition type shows, I love like the voice and like America's got talent in like those kinds of shows and I do I'm like Kardashian's fan okay. But when I like about the circle when I thought it was so interesting was like in order for that show to do well you guys had to carry the show because you had no one to be in a scene with. Yeah. Like you

literally so for those of you who haven't seen it I highly recommend season one no offense to the other seasons I didn't get into them quite as much as I did season one. There's a lot of magic in any season one of a new series, but you guys literally had to sit in a room and talk to a screen like you said, and that's the way you're communicating with other human beings. And then I met you when we did a project that has not come out yet, so we can't say a lot about it, but it's called The Goat on Amazon FreeVee. And yeah, I wish we could talk all about it, but the second I met you, I was like, he's exactly how I thought he was going to be.

Just so fun and funny and kind and open and warm and like a hype man, and it's like you are what you see is what you get. Oh, thank you so much, honey, and same to you. And I think it's really cool because I was never going for this, that, you know, my family would tell me for so many years, they saw me struggling, like, I always knew what I wanted to do. It wasn't like, I'm going to try this. It was college is not for me.

I am a film nerd, threw it through. I got out to LA as soon as I could and put it all on the line. And, you know, struggled for so many years had had nothing and my family would always just tell me if people could you see your real personality? They fall in love with you and for people who don't know what the LA acting scene is like you don't get to show your Personality you walk into a room and it's high. My name's Joey. I'm reading for the role Christian action You do your thing. You're out. They don't want to know shit about you. So when this, you know, reality stuff sort of presented itself, it was sort of the easiest thing that had happened

because I was just able to go and be myself and not try to put anything on. So to hear you say like, you know, you were exactly the way I thought you were. To me, that's just the coolest thing ever, man, because I think there definitely is a value to going on camera, going on screen and not putting on the persona, just being who you are authentically and seeing people that respond to that from around the world. And you know it from being the shows you've been on. It's really gratifying.

It's really cool. Yeah, I agree. And I think just something I want to tap in with Luke, because you kind of said it right off the bat about how, you know, especially in LA, there's a lot of like judgment and people look at you and it's like thick New York accent, slick back hair, like earrings, like he's a bro, he's a Jersey Shore kind of guy And like Luke is recent, like he doesn't live in LA, you know, you live in Colorado technically, but being here with me, we'll love you to pieces for it.

I think a lot of people judge Luke, because they're like, oh, small town boy from Indiana, he lives out in Colorado, he must be a little wall flower, he's so quiet. You know, and it's like, well, no, actually, I just sometimes people don't let him talk. Like me. Yeah, exactly, I'm not gonna fight just sometimes people don't let them talk. Like me.

Yeah, exactly. I'm not going to fight the big personalities that I'm surrounded by. You know what I mean? It's like everybody trying to fight for jockeying for position who can get more words in. And I'm like, I'm not entering that fight with you guys. I mean, Chris and Jack and Brittany in the same room.

It's like, you know what? I'm good without getting words in for a bit. That's so funny. Yeah, dude. And I know what it's like to when you're in that position of going out to that world and sort of taking it in for the first time because it's it's a lot, man. Like I remember when I first, you know, got out there and I just remember having culture shock for so many reasons. There's one example I always give. I'll never forget. I was 18 years old. I was living in studio city, even sure in Vineland, the old Archstone building,

which is now Ava Avalon. Shut up, you lived in arch stone. Yeah, that was that was my first place for seven, seven or eight years in L.A. And I was on my own living in a studio. I go next door to that plaza where there's rails, CVS, all that. And I'm getting a coffee and I hold the door for this dude. I'm like, good morning, man. Nice to see you.

And he stopped and he looked at me and he was like, oh my god, I can't door for this dude. And I'm like, good morning, man. Nice to see you. And he stopped and he looked at me. And he was like, oh my God, I can't believe he did that. And I was like, what? He was like, you held the door, looked at me and said, good morning. I was like, yeah, he's like, you must be from New York. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, people don't do that here.

And I called my mom. And I'm there. I forget. I was like, my where the fuck am I? Like, that's the most just common. Hi, how are you? So I know what it's like, bro. And in those not even forgetting, I was like, my, where the fuck am I? Like that's the most just common, hi, how are you? You know what I mean? So I know what it's like, bro,

and in those environments, dude, don't ever let people fucking make you lose your voice. You know what I'm saying? Like, be yourself because people out there are fucking pricks. They really are, tell you the truth. Yeah, that's right. That's right. I love that.

Yeah, before we get away from the circle talk, I just got to ask you, did you watch it like the day it aired every episode where you like dedicated viewer because you were on it and you just didn't know how it was going to go? Yeah, I definitely did, you know, and like I said to me it was a crap shoot. The reason I was even interested in going on the show was because I had just made my first feature film

and it's actually getting ready to come out early next year and I've been, by the time this film comes out It will have been 13 years of me Working on this nonstop and it's not that it's this groundbreaking thing It's always been for me. This was something I did for myself with my writing partner director that no one's ever gonna Give me this opportunity no one's ever gonna. I got to do this myself because this is what I live for so I put everything in my life on the line to get this film made after so many years. I come back to LA, I was a newly single out of a, you know, seven, eight year relationship

at sort of the lowest point I'd been in and how everything happens for a reason. That's when the show presented itself. And I was like, well, I really have nothing to fucking lose at all. So the best that could happen is I'd go and get free publicity for my movie because I already now I made my film before they would tell me, don't ever do reality. You're going to get stuck in a box and I'm mind you at this point, I'm a struggling actor with no credits doing anything I could, but I'm like, yeah, my career. Totally. Exactly what you mean. You know, I went to the UK to film the show with no expectations.

I broke every single rule during filming, which production did not know. I was very smooth operator. We elaborate a tiny bit on that. I'm dying to know. An example would be you're supposed to be locked down with a shaperone and not leave it like no one knows When you land in the UK you hand over your phone everything and when you get into a car They put a blindfold on you. I'm not exaggerating up No, because and that surprised me as well because they really that's the shit that they should put in the show that they don't show and I don't understand why that

Makes that experience so much is they truly do not want you to know where they're putting you because you don't start filming. Like as you know, there's like a week of stuff you gotta do so like they bring 30 people there and about 12 or 13 get on. So they have people in the same vicinity but in different buildings so like they don't want you

to know where you're at and you're supposed to be like locked down if you go out it's because production gives you permission and they're tracking the shopper on his phones. I was out in clubs, I was partying, I was scoring, in this point also, I'm almost three or sober recovering out of that. Congratulations, yes. Yeah, I was getting bottles delivered to the room. I found out I was going in on the show after being on basically a bender and a party and going crazy and had that like I was sleeping when production called like I was just I dude I get to get out of sling and drinks for a month and go film some shit. I'm not gonna win. This is not gonna

change my life. This is not gonna do anything but that was my whole thing going into it. But I was like I'm gonna give it a hundred percent because anything I do I give it a hundred percent. All I hope is don't let me be first to go home and I'm crazy competitive. So I'm like, if I make it to the end, that means I'm on the whole show. Winnings out of my hands, but making it to the end,

I'm on the whole show, that's winning. So by the time I got to the end, I was like, yo, we're fucking Gucci, son. Like, I did everything, Let's go to the finale. Let's crown the fucking winner. Whoever it is, we'll all party and celebrate. When it was me, truly I could not speak. I didn't, I never saw it coming.

Everyone was like, you played the game the greatest way. I'm like, dog, I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. I was just trying to do what I would do in that situation because it's one thing to watch this show, but imagine being pitched that show before you have seen it. You're in a room, it's a reality show, some people are real, some people are fake, but you want to find out who the fake people are, but it's about building friendships and not judging a book. I'm like, yo, throw me in. I'll figure this

shit out, and that's why if you go back and watch the first few episodes, It's like the asshole version of me because I'm like my only thing I understood is some people are not where they say there So I'm like, yo my job is to find those motherfuckers and get them out and then they're like nah son It's about you making friends with these people and not judging a book by I'm like, oh, okay cool So when the show came out I didn't know what to expect. It was just like cool of like, I'm gonna be on Netflix. At this point, Netflix did not do reality shows. I didn't know what to really expect. Netflix called me in for a few meetings and they were like, uh, we had to edit you in a certain way because we don't want anyone to see that you're going to be the winner. We don't want anyone to see that coming, especially being a season one. And everything that they said was spot on in terms of what they did.

People fucking hated me in the beginning hated me. So it would be like episode one, I'd be seeing online episode one. Fuck Joey, get him the fuck out of here. Episode eight, protect him at all costs. I will die for him. Like they really gave me an arc in a really cool way. And, you know, I always say to people, like that goes to show you how editing could do things

because I went there giving all sides of my personality. And Chris, you know, from know me, I'm goofy, I'm loud, but I'm also incredibly serious and have a heart. Yeah, so you're so sweet and like so just protective and warm and family and yeah. But if you don't show that and you're only showing the loud goofy I'm breaking balls do that everyone's like you'll fuck this dude get him out of here all but you know it do it it was it was super cool everything that they that they said worked and to

watch it come out and see it truly catapult and just change everything in my life overnight. It was amazing and I felt so blessed because I knew when that opportunity came, I was ready for it. I had been studying this industry so long. I had been ready for any sort of break. So when that door opened, man, I was taking full advantage of it in the right ways, not the wrong ways and maneuvering in ways I'd been waiting for. And I feel like that's why I'm still able to work consistently today and

do things because you can get a platform, you can get a break, you can get all of these things. And I feel like most people think like if you're especially in front of the camera, type of talent, shit just happens, and it's like, no, dude, you are an entrepreneur, your name is your business You have to fucking grind you have to still go through 10,000. No is just to get to that one yes And you know, that's the business we're in, but I love it. I can't do anything else. There's nothing else for me to do in this world Let's talk about my new fave thing. I absolutely adore all of in June They're all about making your nails look fabulous and having fun doing it. Olive and June is the ultimate destination for the cutest,

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Luke doesn't know this, but I think for your fans and like far less than our fans of you in the show, what I really love is that your mom and brother ended up on the circle. No, no, no, no, that's Mitchell. It was, I think it was your brother. Everyone thinks we're family because we're literally like the same people. Yes, you. Yeah. He's in one Tammy and Ed were a mother and son. Yes. Well, on my season and then season two was a or brother Mitchell. I swear to God, but yo, I get it because we're a mother and son. Well, on my season. And then season two was, or brother Mitchell, I swear to God, but yo, I get it because we're Italian, East Coast.

Yeah, everyone. And we basically all came. So that was my bad, yeah. I was thinking about it. I was like, yeah, his mom and brother were on it, but you guys sound the same. I'll go out on public and I'll be with Mitchell and people either think me and Mitchell are brothers

or that it was my mom and not his mom. Everyone gets confused. It's one of those things that it was my mom and not his mom. Everyone gets confused. It's one of those things that it makes me feel so. I sound like a dick now. Well, we cleared that up, guys. If anyone else thought the same thing. So if something that I didn't know is about this show called Match Me If You Can,

that you did, what was that like? Because you've done now how many shows? Technically like four shows, plus like some digital hosting and stuff. If it's all those things included, I wanna say somewhere between four to seven things. Yeah, because you did obviously, we'll just get this out of the way because we're on perfect match.

You've got engaged, you were public about, you've done, you've talked to the talk, you've had the interviews, everybody knows, you guys parted ways. You do have a girl now. And what I do love is that you've, I didn't care you saw this, but you've told me like you like to keep

that relationship more private from the public because it's something just for you. And when you and I did the goat together, I thought it was just so adorable because at the goat, I'll just tell you guys one little thing. We too, we're not allowed to have our phones, and that was something very new for me, but we were allowed to have them late at night and first thing early in the morning. And when we were on the goat together, you just talked about your girl the whole time. You're like, I love being here.

This is so much fun. But man, I can't wait to get home to my girl. And it just like melted my heart into a million pieces. Whatever a man take you are, as such as like back to the judging thing, like this tough, like New York dude, but you're just like such a family man. You like love your girl. And I think that that's a really beautiful thing that people need to kind of know more about. And I think that it is also really beautiful

that you are protecting your relationship. Well, thank you. And I really appreciate that. And yeah, honestly, anyone who really knows me will tell you I'm the biggest sap in the world. I cry over everything. I watch a fucking commercial. I cry on every movie.

And you know, especially when you find someone who accepts you and loves you truly, the so cliche, but like for all of your flaws, as well as your good things. And you know, even going back to just perfect match, it's sort of bittersweet because it's not to me that show is not about what my relationship was or anything like that. It was, you know, Netflix called all of their people, you know, who were single and, you know, their most popular and said, let's come make this really fun show. And that's how we all went at it. Like, it was like, this is such a fun opportunity for, I mean, like everyone called me the Godfather of the house

because we knew someone knew come in how nuts up because I'm like friends with all these people. I know mostly all of them before we film. So like, they were all network, right? Because it was exactly from your network. Interesting. I don't watch all these shows when they come out necessarily, but I'll be at the Netflix events and I meet the people, which is better for me because I'm meeting the person. I'm not judging the edit or the show that they were on. And it's really unfortunate because the show was just as big as the circle in terms of numbers, I believe, if not one, it was both the circle and perfect match were number one and number two globally, which is insane

but there was such fallout from cast and such drama and Back and forth and and just just a lot of shit that just for me makes me very uncomfortable because I am a person That's I crazy if I got an issue with you, I'm gonna fucking call you. And it should happen on camera, if it happened on camera, okay, we have to error on camera, that's what we sign up for. But when a show is done, a show comes out and you got people blasting people on podcasts,

on their Instagram, there's personal shit coming out that the audience doesn't need to know about, it's a lot and And everyone's different. I know we sign up for this, but it was so much for me to just go on that show and open myself in terms of dating, because I am, I'm that dude that's like, yeah, I'm in this business. I want to make a living doing what I love, but I've always been extremely private. I never imagined I was going to be where I'm at today, and especially knowing I have so many traumas I've had to overcome in my personal life by, you know, addressing them head on, and that's not

for the world, unless I've decided for the world, you know, to be like, I'm going to put this side of my life out there. It was just really unfortunate that all of us couldn't really enjoy the success of the show because there was such fallout and that's why I don't speak about it as much as I do the circle because the circle works truly all still friends. We all shared in this experience together. It could have been and should have been that way with perfect match. It just did not go that way.

And it's unfortunate and the audience loves the drama. They feed into it. But you know, when you're talking about the world we live in today, it's extremely worrisome when people can commit suicide. People can take their lives. People can be struggling with mental health. And when you're hearing people from around the world going at you, shitting on you as a person and telling you, you know, go fucking kill yourself.

You're this, you're that. Because of a relationship not working. You having tears right now, I love you. It's just, it's insane. Like it is, it is literally insane. How serious some people will take it and just judge your character off of things. And, you know, I'm never, I don't like to be the guy that's like, oh, might, they fucked me on the edit. They've done this. They've done that. But truly like, there was things that were positioned in certain ways in the show that were true.

And other things that sort of made me look like, again, like the, the douchebag. And it took on a different connotation when it's now under dating. And then you're opening up TikTok and you're seeing people go, this man's a gaslighting narcissistic abuser, all of these, and I'm sitting here having all these buzzwords thrown at me, and I'm like, I wanna say so much and do so much, but also this show was filmed over a year before it came out. No one has talked about that.

I also am a professional who believes I sign up for something and I open myself for these things. So I'm not trying to get press or clicks based off of rebuttling this shit. So like that whole experience, man, it was really a lot for me. I held my breath and just shut my mouth,

which was really hard. And it just felt like waiting for impending doom and then to answer, that's why I did the go. When that phone call came in, I wasn't looking to go do another show like that to tell you the truth. Like I had sort of been like, yo, no more competition.

Like I've done this now. You had like a really great experience to a completely opposite experience. And it was like, oh man, do I need to again? You already had a platform, right at this point. Yeah, like don't get me wrong. I want to work. I just want to be smart about the things that I do.

And I had felt like during that time, I just I wasn't able to enjoy the ride to, you know, the producer who we know, who did the show, who's a fucking great human when he called me up. I was like, you know what, dude, tell you the truth. This is not what I I wanna do right now, but fuck it, let's go have a good time. This just sounds like fun.

I kinda need this right now, especially after how these last few months have been for me. And again, for anyone listening to this, I'm not trying to sit here and shit on perfect mats or shit on that experience. It was amazing that Netflix kept me in mind and has been loyal to me, like I've been loyal to them. It's just hard for people to understand how the audience can truly have such an impact on people's lives

in a way that I don't think they understand. I don't think people look at people as people and just to relate it back to what your show with Tom and Rikail and Ariana, all that shit. Like, look, I get it, man. Dude fucked up. I think everyone has grown and made money from it, which it's been. Oh, yeah. But, you know, to the point to where it becomes such a thing to prop people up and shit on other people,

I get it. People are assholes. They can break hearts. They can fuck with people's lives and their real lives. But when you're amplifying that on such a level, like to me, it's just like, I've struggled with mental health. I'm an addict in recovery. I don't know if these people do, but if the odds are,

they do, from being on some of these shows, what happens if it goes too far and someone takes their life? Is it do people walk back the things that they've said about them in that situation or do they still feel justified? I mean, these are the fucked up what ifs of the world we live in today with this. No, you couldn't be more right. I've been there for sure.

I mean, I think a lot of people don't understand that, or I guess people that want the fame or whatever don't understand that 50% of the fame is going to be hate that you have to deal with. And that's aside, most people don't think. They think your life is just so awesome and amazing and all these things and they look for a way to try to bring you down a peg. Yeah, it's something that's unfortunate because I'm like, yo, I know we all know what we sign up for.

And these companies make sure that you know. And that's why again, I want to say that it's not like any experience I've been in. I was like, oh, I never saw this coming. I knew exactly what I signed up for. Totally. And I would also say is the person who's used to being the audience member my entire life, every single one of us, including us on this call, have said I'm a couch and watched a show and said, fuck that person. Yeah. I love him. Fuck her. This we've all, that's the fun of these shows I get it we know that when we're making it however it goes an extra mile when you are going out of your way to seek people out and tell them fuck you I can't stand you you're ugly you're fat you're stupid you're this you're dead or

just making troll accounts just to throw a real person. I mean, people really do get a kick in today's world out of seeing a person up here and saying, I can make you fall and I can make you crumble. And that to me is so sickening. Like, there are truly bad people, like truly bad people that exist in this world who do terrible things to people that go against a law that go below the belt to sit here and to attack so many just normal people who are in a line of entertainment for you.

To me, it's just, it's really upsetting and I really hope there is something that changes with that because I think there is going to come a time where things go too far and there's something that changes with that because I think there is going to come a time where things go too far and there's going to have to be a real fallout to requires change. But I think it's sad if we have to wait for that time to come for that to happen. I totally agree with you. And I want to tag on to what you were saying about, when I'm sitting here at home and like, I got, you know, I like try to get Luke to watch like the bachelor with me. Like, yeah, I'm gonna have opinions in my own home with Luke, but I'm not, you know, I'm basically talking

into a vacuum, this is private in my own home or we're making these little judgments because it's the part of the experience of watching TV like that. Yep. But I do not ever, and this, before I was on reality TV, but especially because I'm on reality TV, would I ever, in a million years, even if like meeting that person in real life or going online, I would number one, I would never troll their account or say anything negative.

But also, when you meet someone, you have to understand that what you see on TV is a one-dimensional human being. You don't know about their past. And I think maybe Joey's because also, as an actor and as a writer, I think you understand you have to create characters. And for those of you that don't know, I acted as well, but Joey knows, when you're given a character on a piece of paper, it's like, Joey, age.

Are you 30 now? Are you still 29, young in? I'll be 30 in December. Oh my god, you are so young, I love you. But it'll be like Joey, 30 from New York, dating, so and so, like that's it. But as an actor, your responsibility is now to create a past for this person, you know.

Like where did they come from? Do they have divorced parents? Do they have traumas? I have everything. You need to know their entire life. Right, and so that's part of creating a character as an actor. You know, like where did they come from? Do they have divorced parents? Do they have traumas? Everything. You need to know their entire life. Right. And so that's part of creating a character as an actor. But when you're on reality TV, remember that every person

that you're watching, they also have pasts. And they have traumas. And they have things that you have no idea what they've gone through, because all you're seeing is what they're supposed to be doing to entertain you on television. And also, it doesn't matter who they actually are as a person, no matter what, because this is just storytelling in general.

Every person is a type that needs to check a box of this type of personality, this type of character. So even if you're like, again, the why the circle sort of worked for me is, I was at first put into dumb Jersey Shore we don't knock off Fucking guy what you got and that's my type on paper and that's why people have the opinions They didn't tell they're like oh wait. Yeah, he kind of he is those things But he's not and he's more than that and I think people need to remember that as well going into into shows of like

Yo, someone could have put their entire heart on the line for the show you're watching and show it aside of them. That's completely vulnerable and you'll never see the footage because it goes against the storyline of what the show is unfolding as. Like, I don't think people ever think a shit like that. No, I could not fucking agree with you more. Okay, so now I wanna switch gears

as Andy Cohen likes to say. Switch gears a little bit. And just to talk about you. So you grew up in Rochester, New York. You're 29 years young and hearing already, like, because I wanted to talk about, like, as I've said, your private about your current relationship and we totally respect that.

But even just hearing, like, you were in a 7 to 8 year relationship, I don't even know how long ago is so wild to me at your young age because you remind me a lot of Luke because you guys both have Luke's only 32. You guys are so, my little young. Dude, I feel old as fuck, which is weird to still here I'm young because I'm like 30 is fucking with me. Like that, I never, I never care about getting older, but like 30 is definitely fucking with me a little bit.

Like that's like something needs to change. I'm gonna be fucking 30. Like what the hell? That's so cute. I'm 40, okay. I'm just kidding. I am 40, but you just, you have such an old soul and such a maturity about you. And I think I'm personally gonna attest that to like the way that you were raised.

Because clearly you've been very outward and about your sobriety and your past addictions and all of that which I think is so great. But when you were younger before the girl that you're with now, so let's say screw the shows and everything else, were you typically a serial monogamous or did you like to kind of single and mingle? Were you just like, I don't want to be single and I like to date a lot?

Were you the guy like since high school that always had a girlfriend? So this is funny. This is where I'm so slow at so many things. Monogamy is what, one person. We're just with one person. Correct. Okay.

No, to be honest, I got around. Like, I was always a very sexual person. I've always believed that's incredibly normal, but I also like, I was never a normal kid, like most kids, like. What do you mean by that? Like, most little kids want to play with toys and, you know, collect Pokemon.

I was studying John Carpenter and West Craven and was in love with Pamela Anderson and needed Playboy, like as a child, like this was how I was and my parents always allowed me to be myself while guiding me, like I was the only kid allowed to watch any already movies I want. And I love them so much for that because when you're a kid, your imagination is so vivid

and wild and I feel like as an adult today, that's why I'm still able to be in a field of creativity because I was allowed to hone that in as a young man. But, you know, my mother always knew from the time that I was a young kid that I was going to be very much into women and having fun, let's say. And it was always, you can do all of those things, but you're going to be a gentleman. You're going to be a gentleman and you are going to treat people with respect. So I think as a, you know, confused teenager, like we all are at that age, that, you know, you get your heart broken or the people you feel like you want to be with you or in love with. But for me, I always wanted to like hook up and have fun and sort of, you know, live that,

that side of myself and relationships to me have always been a little weird in the sense that I was raised with my mother and father who are together since they've been kids. And if anything's ever gone wrong in their relationship, I've never known neither of my petmised siblings. They're the true testament of a beautiful relationship. So me and my sisters always sort of had the thing of the first person that we fall in love with and date is the person Moment to be with so I never wanted a girlfriend or a relationship because I'm like that's sacred That's for my forever person and you know, I can I can date I can date and Talk and have fun and respect someone that I'm with and whatever we do during that time is completely private and just for us and no one else. But I sort of kept those titles really secure

and even with my ex I was with for a long time afterwards. I sort of was really afraid to date someone and call them my girlfriend. Like that meant so much, something that's so simple for some people was truly so fucking hard for me to be like, no, like I'm going to make this official and like we're actually together and like you're my girlfriend. I'm your boyfriend. Like that just made me cringe and also was like so difficult.

So it could have been very hard for people who have dated me because I could seem like such a mind-fuck of like I wanna get super close and I wanna give everything and I'm all these things that seem perfect but then I fucking basically ghost and I'm like terrified and so afraid of getting close because I'm not in tune with my own emotions and plus, there's a ton of traumas that I've been through that I don't make public that I had to address

and fucking deal with in therapy. And you take all of that plus for a long time, hiding a drug and alcohol addiction. You put all that shit together and you're getting a person who's very fucked up that needs a lot of help. And that's where I was at for a very long time. Something that Luke and I have in common is our competitive nature and definitely our

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and all of that. Well, just when Joey was talking about, like, it's always been a sexual person. You guys can't see our faces right now, but every time, like, Luke's eyes would light up. Like, oh, I get you. I feel you. I just felt like you really understood

where he was coming from, like, as a younger guy. I get, yeah, yeah. I get in wanting to be like, you get made out to be the villain a lot. I've been in a similar place as far as what you're talking about, wanting to get close to somebody, not wanting to put a title on it, wanting to be just real yourself and genuine and really get to that point. And then when they want to take the step, you freak out.

Yeah. Right. And it's like not going to take that step. So I 100% agree and I've totally been the bad guy, like you have. And those times, that's like, we're so close, what's wrong? Why, you know, what did I do? And it's like, you didn't do anything. This is we're so close what's wrong why you know what did I do and it's like you didn't do anything this is me my own brains messed up right that's what's keeping it from happening. Well it especially in today's world again the thing that bothers me with that is things are so much more amplified like I always say talk to any girlfriend you have for the most part of them are going to tell you every single one of their ex-boyfriends are

narcissistic gaslighting abusers This that every other thing and I'm like go again save that for people who that it truly applies to because Then of the day dating is fucking hard no matter what type of person you are no matter what your background is It really is difficult and I think people really do their best. I really do. I don't think people purposely go out of their way to try to fucking destroy someone. I just, I don't think people are that evil. I think they're not evil fucking people. That's why we should save these things for it for those people. But for the most part, it's extremely difficult, especially in today's world, because again, if like, let's just say, for example,

you're dating someone, you're all in, you fucking feel everything. And this is fucking great. But then all of a sudden, you're starting to see things within them that don't make you feel as good as you did before because of maybe backgrounds or personal preferences and outlooks. And now you start pulling away where I'm speaking just for

myself, I'm the guy who has always wanted to be, no, I'm gonna make everything good, everything's fine. But I'm not gonna speak on these things. And then you end a relationship and everyone, and they're like, yo, fuck you, you're terrible, you gaslit me, you made, you loved bombed me, you did this, it's like, it's fun, it's fun, it's fun, it's fun, it's fun, it's fun,

I felt all of these things and then I didn't. We're people, it's fun me even more terrified of being public with anything of my personal life because yo, I'm still trying to figure shit out. I remember going through that relationship ending before I had the career that I have now and I had to erase all my social media. I had no, basically no followers, but every person who I knew from back home,

what happened, what's this, what's that people weighing in? I saw your ex at this place. I'm like, son, I don't need that. Like my career is my career and my personal life is my personal life. Social media, all that shit has to do with my career. I like to try to keep that for professional. So if my personal life is in shambles, you should never fucking know. It's nobody's business. And that can be very difficult, especially when it comes to dating because I have made no apologies

when I have sat down with people not to be a fucking dickhead, but to say, these are the things I'm okay with and these are the things I'm not okay with. I am not, I'm not gonna post you. I'm not gonna post our relationship. I'm not with and these are the things I'm not okay with. I am not not going to post you. I'm not going to post our our relationship. I'm not going to compromise my career, the things that I have to do for me and that could be things that I totally understand seem so foreign to you. Seem so this makes no sense. I don't understand. I understand you might not get that. This is my

line of work. This is my dream. I've sacrificed everything to get here, I will walk you through it, I will be so emotionally available for you, but if it comes down to ultimatums, I'm not playing that game, like I've had to really figure out myself and be firm with things to where again, I feel like you could be coming off as an asshole, but I'd rather be have someone look at me

and say totally respect you, totally respect that that doesn't work for me. And I'm like, okay, get that. Totally cool. Let's, let's have love and respect for each other. Because like, yo, I've had so many people like date, like quote unquote, dated, you know, had relationships with whether it be, you know, sexually that they were never going to be my wife, my person. I love them as people and we're still friends. And I would be there. Like not every person is the person for you.

Like, and there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, I really, I was like kind of taking notes while you were talking like some things that really stood out to me, but I like when you said something, it's because I'm like definitely the girl pre-luch of course, but like who, every guy that I've ever met, I'm definitely the girl pre-luch, of course, but who, every guy that I've ever met, I'm an aemary. Like, I love hard, I fall fast because of the idea of what it could be, especially being younger. But I like how you, I mean, you're very,

like, your emotional, your EQ, your emotional IQ is extremely high and being able to set your boundaries for yourself and with your relationship, your emotional IQ is extremely high and being able to set your boundaries for yourself and with your relationship, your current relationship, and also be so communicative about something like, you know, as an example, like your Instagram, right? It's, I follow you, of course, I love you to pieces, and your Instagram is very much like your business. It's you, it's about you, and you don't feel the need, and it doesn't mean that you're not in love with your girlfriend, and it doesn't mean anything else.

Like people are put a lot of meaning into what they see, and what you're saying is it doesn't mean anything. You got like, you fans could be the ones making up this meeting, and as long as you and your partner have that communication, and she understands those boundaries, it's not like you aren't proud of your relationship. It's just that's not what your social media is for. Well, and also like of course,

it could be extremely hard for another person because it feels like you're taking something away from them as someone could wanna do that. But I just have been in that place where I've been in an unhappy relationship where I'm miserable and I feel like I'm in a deep dark hole that gets deeper but to the outside public, you're the fucking definition of happiness and love and all of these things and you know, I was raised by my parents

with the mentality of like there is a time and a place for everything and I think that's really true but maybe my views on that someday with marriage or a family would change. But I still just feel like I don't want to include people in that because there's also a lot of weird fucking people out there. Like, like, let's just be honest, if you have a couple hundred thousand people following you, like that's legitimately a couple hundred thousand people. Like within those people, there's going to be some with a fucking screw loose in terms of anything. Like, so I just feel like you have to, you have to tow the line with that.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with that because I think that I, I try to be as, as upfront as I'm comfortable with of putting things out there of insecurities, problems in my life to overcome. I don't feel like all of those things need to be made for public consumption. And that's why I don't ever try to say, and I'm saying this because I've dealt with this in the past of people saying to me,

you're so full of shit, you put out this image, you know, that whole thing, you put out this image, you're so happy, you're Mr. Family Man, you're so happy. It's all bullshit. You're such and I'm like, Doug, I have never fucking claimed to be perfect or or a good I don't know how many more ways I could say flawed is fuck. I love that. I. Like in therapy for a long fucking time, had been suicidal at stages in my life. Like I never try to claim anything.

I will always say I do my best to be the happiest. I can be every day and treat people like fucking gold, regardless if I'm good or bad. And within that, there have been people I have hurt when I haven't wanted to or meant to. And when I have done those things haven't wanted to or meant to and when I have done those things, it truly haunts me. Like I would never do anything to hurt anyone.

So like I feel like all I can ever do and say is I'm a work in progress and I try to take stock of the things I do right and the things I do wrong so I could try to be better tomorrow. And I truly believe that. Like sobriety has really helped me with the whole, like cliche one day at a time thing. Like, yo, I can't say I'm gonna not drink tomorrow, but I can say for sure I'm not gonna fucking drink today. I can say for sure I'm not gonna do,

I'm not gonna use today. And sometimes it's taking it 10 minutes at a time and 20 minutes at a time. Like, it's to me, things you have to do to rewire your brain a little bit, to try to operate better, especially if you're seeing things you're doing that's affecting people you care about when you're not meaning to do that to them, you know. Oh, story of my life. I sort of got your results, Mr. Joey.

There you are. That's funny. Okay, now I want to talk about something else, which, again, this is, I want to talk about something else, which, again, I want to just let everyone know that we're going to speak more generally on this topic or rather, and Luke and I are always like spilling all of our shit, but when I first asked you a bit ago to do this podcast, right, we've been trying to make this happen, we've been busy peeps. What we talked about was I thought really fucking incredible and something that Luke and I definitely have like tried to dive into a little bit on this podcast, but you already said like obviously you're a very sexual person. I'm a very sexual person,

Luke's a very sexual person, and I thought it was really interesting when we were you and I were texting that you were like, you know, in terms of wants and desires, like sexually and sexual appetites, that you feel like the only time you hear people on podcasts talk about these things are like porn stars, right? Like real people don't. And I, and Luke and I always know in respect that like, we're the ones with the microphone, we're the ones that chose to do a podcast about sex. Therefore, we don't expect everyone to be, you know, giving us all of their personal history and information. But I liked that you said how many people actually communicate to their own partner about their sexual desires and fantasies.

We're not telling you to jump on a mic everybody. We're not saying you need to, you know, explode onto social media, your personal secrets and all of that. But I do think it's really interesting because I've said before on our podcast that I don't think I was even really capable of that, even as a very sexually driven person until I was like in my 30s.

Like there were a lot of things I thought I would be judged on and like I was embarrassed to talk about. I didn't know if that was like, quote, unquote, normal to explore because I saw it in porn or a girlfriend told me about it. And I think there are a lot of people like my mantra has always been, if you can't talk about sex and I mean with your person, then you shouldn't be having it. I love that. And I think that it's due to, it opens up a conversation that's become so incredibly complex and complicated.

Like I've read an article, I wanna say like maybe a month ago that stuck with me. I think it was an S-square. It was one of those big publications. And the reporter interviewed four or five S-squarts, female S-squarts, and about the people that she's facing regularly, you know, married men, all of these people and sort of the reasons why someone would go to an escort. And, you

know, you get so many different things of like the person who's just like a cheater or the person who has crazy kinks that they want, but they won't ask their wife for. Or like, I remember there was one guy for some reason that really stuck with me that he was like, I give everything to my wife and to my family. I'm a great husband. I'm a great father. My wife wanted to move, or no, she didn't want to move. She wanted to stay in this place for our kids when I could have made more money.

I didn't say anything. I do everything for my family. This is for me. And there are so many things that like, and again, obviously his wife does not know he's going to an Ace. But I just think that between things like that and I've dated so many people and I've talked with so many people intimately in my life with being single, I find people very fascinating. I was having that's the right of me of looking at a person and Knowing that there's more than me to see I and wanting to get to the core of that, to see who someone really is,

not who they show the world. I just really think that so many people are afraid of speaking out and up on things for so many different things. And you know, I could say for myself in my last relationship, that was me. I was not sexually satisfied. We did not have a good sex life. And that was not putting that on my partner. There were, I mean, there's so many reasons for that in a relationship. But I'm just saying for myself, I was completely not satisfied. I will also say I have cheated in the past, not proud of that.

And I've lied about that because again, people, no, they, people do not me, I'm, because I'm the most loyal motherfucker in the world, which is true. But guess what, I am flawed, I have cheated, I have done things that I regret for many different reasons and I've also been cheated on. And I know how fucking terrible that feels. So I just feel like with all of these things,

it leads me to so much of a different approach to a conversation. Like we had talked about when we jumped on her earlier, I told you, I don't date. Like I really, I don't date, not just because I'm with someone right now, even if I wasn't, I'm not the type that was like, if we were both single and I meet you, I'm like, like, hey, like can I take you out sometime? That's just to me is so fucking weird. Like even after, I don you and I'm like, like, hey, can I take you out sometime? That's just to me, it's so fucking weird. Like, even after, I don't know what it is. Like, even after my long relationship ended,

I went on one date with a girl who's a regular at my bar on salsa night and I'm not exaggerating. We had a dinner at like 8 p.m. I called my mom starting at 9.30 in the morning and I was so fucking nervous. What do I wear? What do I, I hadn't been on a date in fucking years. I had 35 different outfits. This point I wear? What do I, I hadn't been on a date in fucking years. I had 35 different outfits. This point I was drinking and doing substances. So I showed up to that date fucked up because I was so nervous.

So nervous? Yeah. I don't know what it is. I just, I feel like even when I look at all of my relationship history, it's always been from things starting incredibly organically as friends or as a thing starting incredibly organically as friends or as a connection with someone on a human level more so than putting an expectation of dating on something. So like I would say, if I was on a date with someone, I would approach it as in, let's not act like this is date number one. Let's act like this is date number 15. Oh, I like that. Everyone's going to fucking tell you how great they are,

how good shit is, how they're the best. Everything's looking up, all of that shit. My thing is, you're like, fuck that. Give me the nitty gritty of the shit. What am I getting in for here? Like who are you? Yeah, like that's not waste time, yeah. What are you, what are you okay with?

What are you not okay with? What are you looking for? Like people really do, and I get it because it's part of its human nature, but they show you who they who they want you to see. But when I ask people questions like that, to me, it tells me just as much about them, no matter what they say, it tells me how they respond. Because if someone's willing to open up to you and put a guard down and and show you a sign of vulnerability

to me, that's something that goes a long way with me because I will be very open. I will I'm not, again, I think it's getting older. I'm not afraid to hold things in like I once was. So I just feel like so often you have people date, get into relationships with someone and I think it could be really unfair because people could fall for people under pretenses of only seeing a version of that person or a side of them. And then when all of it comes out, it's like, oh, fuck, I'm not really happy, but I feel stuck. Because I've given this person my word that I'm with them.

I'm here 100% all these things. But then it's like, yo, you also kept a lot for me that I was unaware of. And these are things that aren't, and it's not even that it's not working for you. It's normal that those things are going to throw you off because that's not the person that you have gotten to know. And other people will take that as again, you're a liar,

you're living a double life, you're dead. People need to realize we are complicated, we are human. There is not, you're living a double life, you're dead. People need to realize we are complicated, we are human. There is not, we're an onion, there is fucking layers. So to me, it's that approach of being, you know, taking your time with people and really trying to get to the core because I get stimulated from conversing with someone just as much as I'm going to get stimulated being sexual with somewhere. I could not agree more. I remember just really quickly going into the goat and talking to our producers ahead of time.

And I was so excited because, well, I was nervous because I had no idea who's going to be on it and I don't really watch a lot of reality to be all of that. But my biggest thing was I know that we're here for a shorter time, you know, than I'm used to when I'm filming, when I used to film Vanderpump rules, but I'm like, I don't do small talk. Yeah. Like, I do want to know where you're from, but I also want to know about like your family and I want to like really know, know you. I don't want to talk about like, oh, so you're from New York. Yeah, it's been raining there a lot lately. Like, what a fucking boring-ass conversation. Yeah.

Let's just find out if we've had, because on a human level, like, I know I'm going to find a way to connect. Really, it's why Luke and I started this podcast, because I find the psychological factor behind how men think, how women think, and how just humans think. And what they really think, I think if everyone did that and gave people that chance, you would find out that you're far more connected

to people that you think that you wouldn't be, you know? And I think, you know, to piggyback on what you said, like my thing is, I genuinely will, I love people. And I always find a connection with someone unless someone is really a fucking prick. Like I am really the guy who can get along with anybody and see the type of friend I need to be for somebody because everyone is different

unless someone is really just not a nice person or extremely closed off and even with that, you need to realize sometimes people could be like that and conceive rude because they have shit they're going through they haven't dealt with it's not necessary that they're just born a fucking an asshole because I think there are people who know me my entire life who could tell you if you met me four or five years ago depending on the day you might have hated the person that you met or might not have been able to get a word out of me because I was severely depressed

and could not see literally the light that's in front of me because of what's going on in here. So when it comes to dating, especially, I think that there is something of exploring each other's minds and possibilities that should be such a, it should be something that people do and people don't. I think we also have to keep in mind, we've lived in LA for a lot of years. People forget, we forget, we live in a bubble of people who are usually after the same type

of thing, same type of work, something that we've always wanted that's become so normal, which like Luke, like you're in our lades, like you're not there full time, but like you could see how fucking weird it is. Imagine that for years and years, like it really becomes your normal. And even when you hate it, when you leave, you miss it. So I try to relay back to you. I'm in Rochester right now. I'm a kid from Rochester, New York. Most of my friends or people I went to high school with, married right out of high school or early into college with the people that they were dating. And you know, that's the traditional way a lot of people live. And you know, it's those reasons why I left because most people here I've always looked at it in a

negative way of like you marry the first girl that'll fuck you That's your life and guess what you're gonna go to the bar with your friends and fucking drink on the weekend And not take care of yourself and let yourself go and if one girl looks at you and gives you the time of day You will risk everything to go and explore that with if your wife is staying loyal to you or if she's not like It's just it's these small town things of how people live that I feel like needs to be put into the conversation of dating because I feel like, again, I'll see clips of people talking about how to better a relationship,

how to speak to a partner. And I'm also like, yeah, you are saying the right fucking thing. Go talk to a person in blue collar America about how they can do these things because they don't operate from the political correctness of conversing like people want to say everyone does today. It's just not the way that it is. No, not at all. You know, that's the political correctness is really for the public guy.

And you're in private, you know, you're in a tight group. You don't have to, everything doesn't have to be PC. And then maybe, you know, Oh, Taboo, that I even said that. When you're in a tight group of good friends, you should be able to be truly yourself, right? And when you're doing something to put yourself in the public eye, that's when PC should come into play. You should life shouldn't revolve around what people think you shouldn't shouldn't be able to say.

I'll always say it with screenwriting, just to get nerdy for a second of, when you're writing one of the biggest things that they tell you is your characters have to be likable, quote unquote likable. And that is the most bullshit thing because they're like, we have to want to root for you. We have to want to follow you.

To me, interesting is the word I go with, but I bring that up because like you said about being with your friends and private, I can sit in theory, we could sit and watch a movie with all of us and a couple of friends and watch a character who's saying certain things, whether it be about his sex life, you know, women, this and that, and you could sit there and see someone say something that you have said yourself or you have looked at yourself with friends laughing. But at the same point, you're like, you'll fuck this guy.

I don't like him. I don't want to follow this dude's story, which to me is incredibly interesting for us as people of do people not recognize their similarities and characters or in moments like that, do you feel pressure to have to speak up and act like you're not like that because you know you are?

Do you know what I'm saying? That's where again, the film medium speaks to me and is so interesting. Oh, wait. So can we have a quick conversation about this? Because so this is really interesting. I just like grab Luke's leg under the table. So we haven't mentioned this on the podcast really yet, right? About the movie.

Oh, no. So just you chime in because it's kind of something you've brought me into, but we had this conversation. Luke is, go ahead. You take it. And then I just want to talk about the thing I said about the villain the other day and hear Joey's POV. Yeah, yeah. So really close friend of mine, one of my best friends

that actually got married to one of Kristen's best friends when we met and this whole thing started. That's how we met at this wedding. So anyway, he and his dad have like 70 acres right next to my ranch in Colorado and collectively with our group of friends, we've got a couple hundred acres there. And it's really just cool terrain. We want to shoot this like western style or psych thriller out there. I don't know how I mean, I could, it's going to take me 30 minutes to go through the plot.

Yeah, we'll tell you about it. We'll tell you like the plot of everything another time, but it's of something that Luke's been really excited about and I'm like, damn, you're like a way better, like writer, producer than you have ever known because you've never been in this industry in LA. Yeah, so I've never been in this world

and Greg and I would just, I mean, we just chop it up about, you know, these ideas and everything and I can pretty well describe what I'm seeing in my mind, like what opening scene is, how that transitions, how the flow of a character goes to the climax and then how it finishes, happy ending or whatever. Anyway, I don't know. It's just weird that being out here in this world,

I'm like, he's taken all my ideas. He's been in some film festivals. He's similar to you, like, right, hill direct, produce, he's acted as well, like he's done this stuff. And I don't know, it's just. Because when we were, I just wanted you to explain, like, where the movie was stemming from because I'm not the one, you know,

they just luckily decided to involve me. But we were on the phone the other day with them about it. And we were discussing the quote unquote villain of the movie, right? So I want to hear your thoughts on this because you kind of just said something opposite to how I feel, where I do think that every villain has to be likeable, but by likeable I mean relatable. So it's someone like I compare it to like the Joker, right? The Joker supposed to be the Joker, right? The Joker is supposed to be the villain, but why do you give a shit about the villain if he if you can't relate

to him? And the reason you still sort of root for the Joker, like you don't hate him, even though he's crazy and now you know, maybe there's like mental health things being thrown around as far as like the last Joker movie, but he's just like this horrific, like murderous person. But at the end of the day, it's because he has really strong mental health issues, right? So therefore, you feel for the villain. If you can never, in my opinion, if you never feel for the villain,

then what is the villain villain fucking matter? If you don't feel for every character in some way, if you don't relate to them in some way, you don't have to like like them, but they have to have something about them that humanizes them. No, for sure. I think it's twofold because I think going to,

from what I was saying to what you were saying, talking about the villain, to me, is different because villains usually aren't the lead character. Usually their job is to be villain, where I'm going off of lead character very rarely today, do you see a leading character in film that is truly flawed, interesting. Again, does things that would be,

quote unquote, not likeable, where to me, that's why you have so many things that are completely watered down and uninteresting because so much time is being spent to make sure that every character is quote-unquote likable. And I feel like there is a wall that goes up to where I feel like people are completely blind to the world that we live in. Like for me, my favorite era of film is the 70s where things were fucking dark. And you had Deniro Starrings, as Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver.

And by the end of the movie, you're like, is he the villain or the hero? I don't fucking know. But to piggyback on the villain thing, to me, what every great villain needs to be a great villain is they don't know that they're the villain. Ooh, that's good. Yeah.

You could turn the story around 180 and have them be the lead. And it still is compelling because they're not just being bad to be bad even if that's what it looks like on the surface like again you look at the classic the Joker in the dark night He thinks what he's doing is for a good cause Nice for a good reason to Bring restoration to this city and take down the corrupt big elite who have been running it so He can be a murderous, all these things, but to him, those people were sacrifices

for a greater scheme that's been offering peace. So I feel like it really does come down to good writing and in a way to where the average audience member, whether they know storytelling structure or they don't, can see that even if it's subconscious. And I think that circles back to reality TV to be honest in a lot of ways because I think I've personally been depicted like a villain because of myself proclaim social justice

warrior. Like, I don't what you were saying earlier. It's like, I don't ever mean to like hurt someone, but I feel like I have to get down to the truth of the matter. And the realness of it, and at times that can be at the detriment to others, but it's because I'm looking for the greater good. Well, again, there's an ability to be able

to talk about things and speak your mind and make jokes and laugh about things to where you're being a human being. You're not a hateful, piece of shit. You're not all of these, there is just so much that I have a problem with today of people who walk on egg shells and especially in the business that we're in

and I can't tell you how many times I get to know people and the business on a real level and they're like, I'll just give you an example. My film is a very hard art. For so many years, people would read it. And for people who don't know, there's something in the industry called coverage. When you submit your screenplay to,

let's say a Warner Brothers or a big production company. And in turn, like me or someone writes a review on your thing to give you notes. And you have the hopes that they want it to develop it, to make it. Where we've never wanted that. We always wanted to make it ourselves, but I want to see where I'm at.

And to make a long story short, if I was going off of the things that the industry has told me, nothing in my film works, nothing, because it's two high estates, not high enough stakes. The characters completely unlikable for moment and one, this and that, where I'm going, no, no, no, you don't realize how I'm going to play it. And you also, you're seeing it is so bold on a page where there's layers to that. So, and there's things of people for years now who have seen my film where I feel so much vindication because it came down to the fact of, I have good taste. Everything's a crap shoot.

These things work. And there is no much more level of vindication where you have to taste, everything's a crap shoot, these things work. And there is no much more level of vindication where you have to laugh where you have people. You could you never forget the people who were not there for you when you needed them to be. So I had people in high levels who would read my script and say, I can have nothing to do with this because of these things. And then when you pull it off and they see it, these are the same people calling you going, this is why the movie fucking works.

This is brilliant and I'm going, do you not remember four years ago when I needed your help and you're telling me you can't do this or another great example, I've never made this public, I can't say the company, I can't say anything. Pre-pandemic as we're going into pandemic. Circle comes out, my life is going great. I'm meeting every type of person in the industry you can imagine.

And there is a company developing a show on my family. They want to make a show on me and my family, and really get like that family type of show that used to get made, that doesn't get made anymore. So my film at this point was rough. I mean, we were still rough-cutting, but it was there, but it wasn't all the way there. I send it to this producer from this company company and me and this person had gotten pretty close in

terms of what my vibe is, what I'm into. And anyone who really gets to know me is usually surprised of, I see a loud big personality on TV, but then I get to know you and you're extremely knowledgeable and a nerd for this and a smart one. And this person totally gets the film. Like, and not just kissing my ass gets it, like, I get what you were going for, I get what you were inspired by, and holy shit, what you guys were able to pull off for what you had is insane.

It is insane. I don't want to go into too much in case this ever comes back, but some things happen in the world that change the course of where things were going. And about a month and a half later, I got a call to immediately get on a Zoom with my manager, my agent, lawyer, this producer and the head of that company,

and they were sitting there basically accusing me of being racist. Jesus Christ. Because of my film, which hadn't come out yet. And basically told me, I'll do respect if you plan to release this the way that it is. We're going to have to sever ties with you. And now mine you have been on this film for 10, 11 years and a month. And I can't say this on the call because I don't, I still have to be smiling Joe.

He's thankful for an opportunity. Totally. A month ago, I have the receipts. You loved it and got it and couldn't wait for this to be released So it could help us with our project we were doing now This is terrible. It's gonna end my career and do every so the point of the matter is dude is like You have to you have to have a good instinct You have to trust yourself and you also don't you don't go after things to try to be shocking or to does you got to tell a

Fucking story because storytelling is about humans and we are fucking flawed. And I want to watch something that I can look up at a screen and see a person with layers. Not just, oh, they're good, they're bad, they're just like, that's not interesting to me. And it's not real life, you know? Well, and like, what happened to, I just, I think people lose track of, you're supposed to like everything. To me, some of the most awesome things I love are things I don't like.

Like, I love that we can go into a movie and see something and you can love it and I fucking hate it. And now we have a discussion. Yeah. That to me is what is, it's supposed to be about where now things are so designed to not offend anybody to where it's like you're making a movie by an alien. There's no human emotion to it. So and that relays back into things like again, reality, television, into all of these types.

It's all fucking storytelling, dude. I just I just think it's so incredibly frustrating that I see people in their actual lives live certain ways express themselves in certain ways But everyone's been sort of conditioned to if a camera comes on or or any sort of thing. Nope. I don't I don't think this way I don't talk this way. I don't do these things and I just I just find like to does anyone else sit back and call fucking bullshit Or is everyone just think this is normal? I don't do these things. And I just find like, does anyone else sit back and call fucking bullshit? Or is everyone just think this is normal? I don't know. I feel like I'm in a therapy session right now and I'm telling you, I woke up feeling very differently than I do now, so I fucking love you. Okay, we have a little two last questions. One, this is something that you tweeted, which are you still on Twitter? I actually

deactivated my Twitter because I was just getting sick of it and I went on Threads, but are you still on Twitter? And the last Twitter, I tried to tweet at least once a week just to be able to read your tweets. Yeah, your tweets are really fun. Yeah. But you had asked this a few months back and I want to know your answer to it. Well, I have no idea what you're saying.

This is what is the greatest love song of all time. Oh, fuck, did I say what it was? No, that's what you asked your followers. So I'm curious what you think, or just like one out of, you know, top your top ten or something. Oh my god, and I'm such a muse, junkie. Like one in your top ten, since it's such like I didn't prepare you for this. I think you got to go right now, of my head, Unchained Melody. Ooh, that song weeks we cry.

Yeah, I think like Unchained Melody, keep on loving you, Aario Speedwagon, so bubble gum cheese, but we have to get off the show. Can't help falling in love, Elvis. I mean, dude, like there's so many staples, but I think Unchained Melody is the type of song that we'll just forever

stand the test of time. Also, another great one is Ful de Rown and Fallon Love, Elvin Bishop. That's a lot more classic but yeah, I think I got to go Unchained Melody. Look at those little softy with his big old heart. Okay, Luke, no. Do you want to, you want to lead our last question? I cannot sing today. Okay, okay, we're not going to sing it. We're just going to ask you that. Ready? Sure. I would do anything for love. But I won't do.

You know the meatloaf song, right? No, I don't know. I'm not going to do anything for love. Oh, okay, yeah, I know that song. Yeah, okay. But I won't do that. He says I won't do that. So what is your answer? You would do anything for love. But I won't do that. He says, I won't do that. So what is your answer?

You would do anything for love, but you won't do. It could be anything under the world. Some people say anal, some people say, like swim with sharks. I'm a kinky fuck, I'm into exploring. I'm in trouble. I think the only thing I wouldn't do is quit the business or my career, that's it.

Boom. Well, you should never... Like, look, this is who I am. This is what I've always wanted. Anyone that I'm with should respect that and want to be there for me on that journey. The same way I'd want to be with them. And to ever get to a place of someone being threatened by what I have to do and when I have to be on or leave and go and shoot and film or do red carpets or do go down the list of all the shit Yeah, you're a hustler. If it ever came down to like again, it's either me or this That's not the person I want to be with because that's so incredibly unfair and just not right. It's a great fucking

New Center. Not giving up your dreams because your dreams should be supported. Well and do it again Like if you're to your fucking passion, you cannot live without this. That's what it takes when you are following a dream. If a person is going to be threatened by it and most are, just for the record, most are, most cannot handle it. That should not be the person for you because I believe to be successful in a relationship, you have to be 110% honest and present with who you are. Otherwise it is a matter of time before resentment builds, mistakes are made, things go unnoticed and shit will build until it fucking explodes.

So if a person does not have your back on that, that ain't the fucking person for you. And granted, that doesn't mean they have to be either. Not everyone wants to fucking live with a broke actor in L.A. Chasing a dream who can't get anywhere and you're slinging fucking drinks trying to do anything to get someone like, look, that's not an easy road. I've lived it. It's miserable. It fucking sucks.

So if someone doesn't want to deal with that, I'd totally get it, but your person should and will. That's just my opinion. What are you'll find them after? I love it. What a perfect ending to this, Joey. I love you so much. I can't wait until the goat comes out so we can get you on again and talk about that. And just, yeah, you're fascinating. I feel like I was just in therapy. You were my sole sister and you're one of the most positive, like strong human beings I've ever met for sure. And please throw in flawed because my God.

And flawed, perfectly flawed. Same, same here. That's why I love you so much. It's funny when people give you compliments like that. Again, all you hear is the people in your life who've thrown shit at you that are like, you're so fake and people think this and that. I'm like, I gotta throw it in there son, nope.

I'm a flawed motherfucker, let's talk about it. But yeah, dude, now this has been so much fun. And anytime you guys want me to come on, I'm fucking game for it, whatever. 100%. And I'll be in LA in a couple of weeks so we better fucking get together. Oh, we're hanging out for show.

Yeah, you just come here. I'm just coming here, man, No, dude, let me know. Yeah, perfect. Amazing. OK, and then tell everyone where they can follow you. Dude, all the sites. All the sites. Is it just all at Joey's asset, right?

Yeah, kill it. You'll figure it out if you really want to. It's that. Yep, you'll figure it out. All right, I love you so much, sending all my love to you and your girl, and I'll talk to you soon. Hey, nice meeting you, man. Thanks for coming on. You too, buddy. Good luck with the movie. Congrats on that.

You too. We're so excited for you. Alright guys, bye. Alright, bye. Make sure to follow us on social media. You can follow me on all platforms at Kristen Dodie and follow Luke on Instagram at Luke Double underscore broadred. Be sure to click the subscribe button so you can stay up to date with new episodes every single Wednesday.

Thanks for listening. See you next week.