Sex, Love, and What Else Matters - “Beyond the Baby Blues” with Rebecca Fox Starr

Episode Date: February 21, 2025

Episode 146. This week, Kristen is joined by Rebecca Fox Starr: author, writer, wife, mother and founder of “Mommy, Ever After.” Rebecca started her blog in 2010 after the birth of her daughter, when she realized that no one was speaking honestly about the difficulties, fears, boredom, loneliness and mixed-emotions that come along with all of the happy enchantment of motherhood. Kristen and Rebecca dive deep into the important conversation around normalizing anxiety, depression, and the overwhelming feelings many experience during pregnancy. Rebecca discusses her books, with her first being “Beyond the Baby Blues: Anxiety and Depression During and After Pregnancy,” and offers insights on how to breathe through the changes in your body and mindset. Kristen opens up about dealing with social anxiety and the stigma surrounding medication during pregnancy. They also dive into the fears of childbirth and share practical tips for coping with anxiety during this transformative time. Rebecca answers listener questions about topics like OCD, returning to work post-pregnancy, and the difference between baby blues and postpartum depression. Plus, they explore the importance of setting both internal and external boundaries to protect your mental well-being. Tune in for a candid conversation about mental health during pregnancy and how to nurture yourself along the way. Check out Rebecca’s books here: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Rebecca+Fox+Starr&i=stripbooks&fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaYYuwq0ykSRqz_ifiwPvFzm5eaRcakotzh8fZDNlLWX2taw2XUUDuSsBSM_aem_a-QbByot4GVXf1IN0EBZUA&ref=mw_dp_a_s   Note: This podcast provides general information about pregnancy and is not meant to serve as medical advice related to your individual needs. If you have questions, please talk to a medical professional.   Sponsors: Go to MagneticMe.com today – new customers will get 15% off their first order Use code DOUTE for 20% off + free shipping at Manscaped.com   Follow us: @kristendoute @luke__broderick Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Right, subscribe to Sweep the Pod wherever you get your podcasts. ["Sweep the Pod"] Hello, my angels. Welcome back to another episode of Balancing Act. It's just me, myself, and I, no Luke today. And that's because we're going to have some lady talk. I have a very special guest today, a buddy of mine. She's a mom.

She is an author of Beyond the Baby Blues, Baby Ever After, Mommy Ever After, therapist, mental health advocate, which we love. I would like to introduce Becca Fox, star to the podcast. Hi, Becca. Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I am so stoked and ready to just talk about things that we need to normalize and that are very common, which I talk about pretty often now on social media, anxiety, depression, freaking out during pregnancy, everything

surrounding pregnancy and having children. And it's something for me personally, why it's important to me, as you know, Becca, like that no one told me about before I got pregnant. The list could go on and on of all the things that I've heard from my friends about being pregnant, like some weight stuff or like getting nauseous and food cravings and all the things you hear about 24-7. And I think ever since I got pregnant,

the things people ask me about, but no one has ever been like, how are you? Like, are you okay? Are you feeling okay? It's not normalized. And it made me feel up until I think until I maybe No one has ever been like, how are you? Like, are you okay? Are you feeling okay? It's not normalized. And it made me feel up until I think until I maybe posted about it and started talking to you in the last few weeks, it made me feel like I was this anomaly and I was this like little solo person on my own little boat.

And it was like, am I crazy? Am I going to be a good mom? Why is this all happening to me now? So that's what I really want to talk about today. But let's talk about you first, because did this start writing these books and your whole journey and even becoming a therapist? Did it start with a blog or how did it start for you?

It did. It started with a mom blog, which I still cringe a tiny bit saying. But this was 2010. So when I became a mom, obviously I was a child bride. And when I became a mom, I didn't even have an iPhone. And you think about like what we take for granted now, how you could just Google something on your phone. I didn't have that. And it's crazy, right? And I was the first of my friends to have a baby. And I wanted to have a baby so

badly. And I got pregnant and had my daughter in 2010. And I was so happy, blissfully happy. And it was hard. And it was stressful and magical and scary. And I didn't have anyone to talk to because my friends were not in the same place. I didn't have Instagram I barely had Facebook. So I just started writing I've always been a writer and I just started sharing and I just shared kind of honest real life stories about motherhood and how it's absurd and Enchanting and daunting and all the things, but it was not until I had my second baby, my son, in 2013 and subsequently had severe prenatal and postpartum anxiety

and depression that my story kind of shifted and I went from being a writer and blogging about tutus and dance parties to sharing in real time. Look, I'm suffering and I don't feel well or like myself most of the time. I don't know what made me share when I was in the midst of it because I'm not a public figure. I didn't have this huge platform, but that really changed things for me. I opened up in real time and I grew a much bigger following on the blog, which led to the books.

And then I actually went back to school at 37 and got my degree. And that's when I became a therapist. Oh my God, that's brilliant and amazing and so hard and so brave, like with two kids, but like you had it all like inside of you. You just had to get like the education, I guess. But it was like you already knew what you knew, which is kind of the biggest step, I think of all, because I think in my experience with therapy in general, a lot of my therapists have said that they've learned things from me as a patient, because we're all so different.

Like, something I've learned that I'm trying to accept every day, but I love, is that within pregnancy, it's like everybody is different and every body is different. Yes. Even though I think it's so great to lean on each other and learn from each other, and the more we talk about especially stuff like this, I think it makes people not feel so alone, but also there's no like one-size-fits-all approach to any of this. So whether it is therapy, medication,

reading, walking, whatever, going outside, I think there's a million things we can always offer to people or therapists can offer to people. But again, it's not a one-size-fits-all thing. So I just want everyone to know that moving forward, everything that we talk about, I think it's important to take it to heart and see if it will work for you. But at the end of the day, you're you, and that's why you're so special.

And honestly, I think about the fact that as women, we talk about our bodies with pregnancy a lot, and we say, are you gonna wear maternity clothing and then after you have a baby? You're not expected to I mean you're expected to bounce back too quickly But like you're not expected to go home from the hospital in your same pre-pregnancy jeans However, however, you're expected to have the same brain that you had before Like you're not expected to bounce back when it comes to the person that you are You're not expected to bounce back when it comes to the person that you are. Why is it that we give you grace when it comes to your body and say, okay, I just had a baby

so I don't look myself? What about you just had a baby? Why are you supposed to feel like yourself? And I think that it's something that, like you said, people don't talk about, people still don't talk about. However, what I think you're starting to see and what I've certainly seen over the past decade is as soon as you bring it up, almost everyone has a story. Their mom suffered, they knew someone, they were suffering.

So it's truly incredible, like you've said, so many people suffer alone, and we really don't have to. Yeah, oh, a hundred percent. I mean, that's what I want from all of this for everyone that has reached out ever since I just did one little post on Instagram that said, okay, guys, let's, I'm just going to be very frank here. Like I have general anxiety disorder and now it's like leaked into this pregnancy and I'm freaking the fuck out.

And that all stemmed from me just talking to my fiance, Luke, and him being frustrated. Like, rightfully so, like, I'm here to defend Luke in that because he doesn't know what the fuck's going on either, you know, during this pregnancy. We're both brand new at this. We don't know what to expect. And he was just like, God, you're mad at me all the time. And it's like, no, I'm mad at you all the time.

But yeah, was I being like a total bitch at times or just lashing out and then apologizing and then crying because I lashed out. And he would be like, you're not yourself. And I'm like, you're right, I'm not. And I don't feel like myself. And it's freaking me the fuck out because no one told me this is how it was going to be.

Yeah, something that, you know, I know some about your journey having followed you. And I think it's so inspiring also that you shared your journey to becoming a mom, including the hard things you faced like facing loss and going through fertility treatments. I think that that makes the situation you're in harder. It adds a layer of pressure. And you know, you and I have said this, but when you you're pregnant you can be more than one thing at once

I really love how your podcast is called balancing act because to me you feel so grateful to be in this place I know that you do and You also feel anxious and scared and maybe pissed off and I think that There's so much pressure that we put on ourselves Especially when we work really hard to get here, when we try so hard to get pregnant, whether it's IUI or whether it's whatever it is, or just having the guts to do this again after a devastating loss. We put so much pressure on ourselves and then we think, this is what I wanted.

I should be so happy. This is exactly what I wanted. Why am I not happy? And then that guilt, it's just crushing. Yes, the guilt is, it's real because when I catch myself even now knowing better, but especially in the beginning of like admitting these feelings that I was having, being like,

how can I fucking say this out loud when there are women who literally can't conceive or have to try so much harder than I did. And don't want to even believe that at 41, almost 42, no, I just turned 42. How old am I? Oh, God, I just had my birthday. Yeah, so at 42, that it only took one IUI, like one time doing IUI to get pregnant. And a lot of people are like, oh, she lied, and it must have been this, and it must have

been that. And I'm like, no, I feel very lucky. And now I feel like a piece of shit because I said that this is hard for me. But it's like, we're all going through our own journey and it's okay. Even if you got pregnant so naturally, really fast, and God blessed that, and now you're having a hard time, that is totally normal too. And it doesn't make anyone like better or worse than anyone else or like less than. There's no hierarchy of suffering where it's like, well, I worked so hard to get pregnant, so therefore, or I got pregnant easily. It can be really hard. Like you said, like there's no one size fits all. And you don't want to feel shitty. Like you don't want to feel like this. You

wish that you didn't feel like this, but you're anxious. And I know that feeling very well. I really, really do. And it's very common. And it doesn't matter that you tried and you did an IUI, not a natural pregnancy, maybe, we don't know. And that you did it once. Like it doesn't matter. You're here and this is where you are. Yeah. Okay, so we are so ready to meet our little one. And honestly, I can't wait to see what her little personality is like, what she loves, what makes her giggle.

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Manscaped.com. Don't miss out upgrade your grooming game with Manscaped today. So I've read Beyond the Baby Blues because that's the stage that I am in right now. I was like, oh take a breath. So what I wrote down was something that caught me right in the like pretty beginning of the book is that you mentioned breathing. Which sounds so simple. But truly, even with all the panic attacks I've had in my life, the anxiety, the depression, the whatever, this I think is the first time in my life that I have to constantly remind myself to breathe.

Like my fiance Luke will literally stop me and he's like, are you holding your breath? I'm like, wait, what? Why am I holding my breath? Like it's just this weird natural thing that happens to me sometimes. And I don't know if it's cause I'm like thinking so hard or I'm in the anxiety of it all, but I'm like,

it just grabbed me out of the book where it was like reminding yourself to breathe. And I was like, holy shit, I have to do that. And then going from there, you talked about, and this is all like the beginning of the book, which just sucked me in I was like, holy shit, I have to do that. And then going from there, you talked about, and this is all like the beginning of the book, which just sucked me in, was like, we kind of mentioned body stuff just now, but like accepting being a vessel.

Oh, that phrase. Oh. So I just want to talk a little bit about that, because that is like the body stuff I didn't know was going to affect me until it did. And it's not too bad. Like I'm not freaking out because I am like, I know, right? Like I am, I am a vessel.

Like I'm here to create life, especially a little bit further along as I am now. And I'm feeling a little bit of kicks and things like that. But up until I think probably 18 to 20 weeks, I kind of wasn't okay with all of that, if that makes sense. Yeah, well, first of all, when it comes to breathing, it actually stands out to me that you're being reminded to take breaths because I wonder if you're bracing.

You know, like when you brace yourself and you hold your breath. And so I do think that the therapist in me, like I do want you to try to do paced breathing whenever you can because that just calms your nervous system. That can help. And also you deserve to breathe.

Like relating to the second thing that you were talking about about being a vessel, like it's something that's really relevant because everyone focuses on the baby. I just complimented your bump and the baby. When the baby's born, you'll see people do focus a lot on the baby, but you're still a human being with your own needs, like most fundamentally breathing. It is complicated to be a vessel for a thing, a baby, a life that you already love so much, it's a tremendous responsibility.

Yeah. And I think that that's the source of a lot of anxiety because from minute one, and I think you talked about this on an episode before that I heard, but you're told this is what you can do, this is what you can't do. And you're high risk, so you can't eat this. And it becomes very stressful because you and you alone are responsible for growing a human. How can it not be stressful? Yeah, I think you, I don't,

was that with your first pregnancy or your second, you talked about in the book where you were like, I did everything right, like I didn't eat the deli meats and I didn't have alcohol and I didn't do this and I didn't do that. And it was like, that's where my brain was like, okay, especially seeing a fertility doctor, which their job is, which my OB later told me, it's kind of what I talked about

in another episode was like, my OB was like, well, that's really what her job is, is to make sure you are extra careful because you are high risk, because your age, because of this, that, whatever. He's like, but if she had her way, you would stand in a padded living room for 10 months straight. And so that is, yeah, the stress. And I think that, at least for me personally, it has eased a little bit over time, but at the same time, like, well, I didn't feel her kick

when Google told me that that's probably when you first start feeling kicks. So that's why I have the fetal Doppler. Is the heart beating? Can I find the heartbeat? I should go for an ultrasound every single week because then I know she's moving like crazy town, bat shit crazy town. No, no, that is not crazy. I think that what we've kind of habituated to is that that's crazy. But I think you're growing a baby inside of you. And before it kicks,

you have no idea what's going on in there Yeah, you're just told wait three weeks to your next appointment and make sure that the heart beats. Okay, make sure everything's okay crazy That's a crazy expectation and I'll tell you like with my first pregnancy. I was really I Was anxious I would say but not debilitatingly. So I was just nervous. I really wanted it, so I was really careful. I ate the right things. I wanted to make sure she was okay. With my second pregnancy, from the beginning, I was scared.

I wasn't just anxious. I was scared. For whatever reason, we all have our own reasons why things hit us a different way, but I called the nurse one day when I was maybe like six weeks pregnant and I said, I'm not feeling as nauseous today. She's like, great. No, I'm nervous. What if my HCG levels are changing? And I remember her saying, you're fine as long as you don't see blood. And then that Sunday, it was St. Patrick's Day. I remember I was with my parents and I looked down and there was a. Patrick's Day, I remember, I was with my parents and

I looked down and there was a little bit of spotting. Now I found out that I had a viable pregnancy in the ER that night because I was sent to the ER and they said basically you're either miscarrying or you're not, we can't do anything about it. And the doctor in like the ER bay called me over to his computer and like said like, oh look, here's a really grainy ultrasound picture, but your fetus has a heartbeat. It was like the most unromantic, not beautiful, not enchanting thing.

And for me, honestly, that experience was so terrifying that I went numb. And I think that that was really the start of my prenatal distress because it was so scary to care that much. Yeah. So I had to stop caring. Yeah, I feel you on that. I think for just again, this is all me personally, you guys.

I think between the loss prior to being so nervous in the beginning for me, but then it was at like 12 and a half, almost 13 weeks, the same thing happened to us. Like I was sitting on the couch. I literally thought that I peed my pants. That's what I thought happened. And then I was like, oh my God, I had to run to the bathroom. And then it was blood. And then we were in the ER.

And of course, thank God, like everything ended up being fine. But it was like being in when I was reading your story, just being like in the hallway, on the gurney, like not even in a room, because the ER is like like so busy and it was like that was our third ER that we went to because they were all busy with other things like we were like okay we got it we got to find one that's going to take us while I'm literally in my mind bleeding out right like you think of the worst case scenario and I think it did the same thing to me where I was like, I was worried for the sake of the baby from there on out still, but my connection was severed. Like I didn't feel, and I hate saying this as she's like inside of me right now,

but it's the truth. Like I didn't feel a connection to her anymore because I didn't know. I was just like, she's, it's like, I don't feel her kick. I can't see her. I can't physically feel her.. I can't see her. I can't physically feel her. And now this thing just happened and is it gonna happen again?

Or, and you said in the book too, like the piece of paper that they hand you when you go home literally says possible miscarriage. It's exactly the same thing that we got. So then I'm sitting at home going, so is this like any day now? Like at any day, am I just waiting for this to like happen again and pass the way

that it did the first time? Like, this is crazy, you know? It's not crazy, but it's as wild that this is happening and it made me feel again, all this guilt, like why am I not connected to her? And I think I'm, as I felt her kick in the last like week and a half, I just started feeling connected again. Yeah, I think started feeling connected again.

Yeah. I think it's a defense mechanism because you know, like the devastating loss and you, it's scary to care. Now you said something on an episode that I thought I wrote it down. I think it's so brilliant, which is you're not going to jinx it. Don't be scared of the joy and of wanting it and being excited. And I think that's so important because if we can identify what we can control versus what we cannot control,

that actually is a key to anxiety management. There's no relationship between how scared we are of something and how true it actually is. So just because I've got a feeling, I've had gut feelings before that something terrible was about to happen. I was sure and it didn't happen. Every time now that I do have a little worry, I don't have anxiety anymore, I'm very lucky

and I've worked very hard to achieve this state. But every time I get nervous or stressed and I think, I just have a gut feeling and it doesn't happen, I remind myself because a lot of it is we really believe and then we think it must be true, but there's no. It's just our minds thinking we have control. So conversely, you being excited, you celebrating isn't jinxing anything. It's not actually controlling the outcome of anything.

It's just protecting your peace in that moment. Yeah, yes, protecting your peace. Oh my God, you guys write this stuff down, drill it in your mind. If you're a mom or a mom-to-be who goes through this, because that is the God-honest truth right there. Like as simply as it can be said, like there's literally nothing about you being happy

or excited or stoked or whatever it is that's going to then, like the universe is not going to suddenly like change that and go, ha ha ha. You know what I mean? Like too bad for your excitement. No, it's not. It's just like not how shit works. So like it's okay. What about social anxiety? So that's something that I'm, I, that I've talked to some people online about. Because again, you guys, like, just so you know, all of my friends, that I've had the pleasure of being around their newborns, right? Like, we all know my friends from the show,

from Stassi having a baby first, and Sheena, Lala, and Brittany. That was all during the pandemic. So I was not really around any of them pregnant very often, except for Brittany a little bit, but it was like there was no social anxiety because they were forced to be home. So that's like my biggest serving of being around pregnant people as a grown adult.

So I don't really have a lot of that until right now. And the social anxiety that I felt, I try to like dissect it now, because that's what I do. And I'm like, is it really anxiety? Or is it because I'm tired? Is it because I don't feel like being around drunk people? Is it because I don't want to go to a crowded place right now? So I do try to kind of like decipher that. And I think in the beginning, I had a lot actual social anxiety where I was like, it's like it decipher that. And I think in the beginning, I had a lot actual social anxiety where I was like, it's like it was wrong. Like I was withdrawing to a point of

this isn't, I didn't feel like myself anymore. Where now I think it's more of like, why the hell would I want to do that when I can just be at home in my safe bubble? Well, I think that that's actually a really good distinction. And when you're figuring out the difference between depression or something diagnosable and just like being a human with preferences, it's, are you able to find joy in things you typically would find joy in based on the circumstance? And I think what you're describing to me is a boundary and not social anxiety where if you said to me, like, well, if you said to me like well if you said to me can we

go out tonight yes but generally I don't want to go out tonight I'm in therapy sessions all day and I have two school-aged kids I don't want to go out tonight not because I have social anxiety or depression but I'm tired so I think if it's something that you would typically love to do and you can't bring yourself to do that that's when you want to just to do and you can't bring yourself to do that, that's when you want to just clock that and say, okay, maybe today I don't feel like doing it. Let's see next time it comes up. Let's say it's something you love to do with your girlfriends. If you can't find joy in that, that's when I would start to say maybe that's something

that we want to keep an eye on. But if it's something that's like going to a bar as a pregnant woman, that feels appropriate. It feels like a boundary. And that's something that's like going to a bar as a pregnant woman, that feels appropriate. It feels like a boundary. And that's okay that you're evolving. That's a good thing. Yeah. Yeah, I will say, I don't know if this happens, again, guys, always just speaking from my POV, if this happens at other doctor's offices or what.

So I have my OB, right? And then I have this other OB of maternal fetal medicine that I go and get like my first trimester scan than my like anatomy scan. It's like a different doctor, better equipment, I guess, is the whole thing. So the few times that I've been there, they've had me take this little quiz, like the little, you know, on a scale from one to five, how are you feeling kind of a thing? And the first time they gave this to me, the first appointment, they were like, here, we're gonna give you this.

If you can just jot down your answers. You know, it's about depression. And Luke is looking at me like, are you gonna be honest? Are you gonna be honest? But I'm reading these questions and they're like, how often, do you not like to go out anymore? Or things like that where I'm like, I like to diagnose myself

because of all of my many years in therapy and my Googleitis that I have. So I'm sitting here reading these questions from like a therapy advocate patient standpoint going, I mean, I get what they're asking, but that's, no, no, no, no, no. So to be fair, I wasn't fucking honest about it because I'm like, if I answer these honestly,

it is gonna sound like I should be possibly institutionalized for being the saddest person, pregnant person ever. So I was like, no, I don't wanna go out. Yes, I like being home all the time. Trust me, I don't have a problem eating right now. But otherwise, no. So I kind of was't have a problem eating right now. But otherwise, like, no. So I kind of was like middle of the road in everything. And then like the next time I went, same quiz, the next time I went, same quiz. And I was kind of like, guys, I already

know what this is about. So as I feel like shit saying, I basically lied on this test. It was because I felt like I had already talked to my doctors about this stuff. And I do you know what I'm saying? So is this like a normal thing to like a lot of women take this test? And I'm not saying you guys should bullshit. I think you should be very, very fucking honest about it. I just knew in that moment, like, just talk to my psychiatrist about this, like just talk to my therapist about this. And I was honestly nervous like, are they I don't know what the outcome is. Like, are they gonna like take my baby away when I give birth? Like I'm freaking out, you know? That's a really astute, insightful observation you made because most people don't think of that and you clearly are a very smart, insightful person. So screenings for

maternal mental health issues is like one of my greatest passions because when I was in the hospital after my son, Bo, was born, I was given a paper screening. I got a very high score, which indicated very high risk for depression. And I was sent home and no one ever saw the results ever again. And I think about that as a real missed opportunity because I was in the hospital. I was kind of a captive audience and I could have had someone come in and helped me and offered me resources and support and let my family know and no one took me seriously. Now I'm lucky because I had a supportive

partner which I'm so glad that you do. That's really a key to success. I had access to care. I was educated, so I knew to ask for help. However, a lot of people either don't know or, like you said, are really scared to answer because they're scared their child's gonna be taken away or their rights will be denied. That is actually, this is truly why I went back to graduate school because so many people would come to me and say, I left the hospital. The fact that your OB's office is doing it prenatally is actually excellent.

It's not norm. People usually go in and never get asked or they get asked once after giving birth. So it's good that you're being asked. I'm very impressed to hear that. But typically people will be given this question or not given at all. And so many people have come to me

and talked to me about their experience. And I was like, how did they not know that you were gonna have postpartum depression? You had a traumatic situation. And I thought we need to do a better job of figuring out who's gonna suffer and how we can predict and prevent these things. Cause a lot of these issues are actually predictable

and preventable or mitigatable. And so I worked with a friend of mine and digitized the existing screenings to try to improve them. But I was just an author, like person. And I was like, what am I going to do with this? I have no clinical background. And that's why I went back to school. And I think that you bring up a really important point, though.

I think we're not asking the right questions because you knew how to answer to game the system. You knew in a way, yes, you were getting help from your psychiatrist, but you were so smart that you knew what to not say or to how to walk that middle ground. And I think that we need to be able to ask the right questions so that women are not scared to tell the truth. Yeah. Because they're shameful about it. No, not at all. It was more just like, why are you... My question in my mind, which I did not ask out loud, was why are you asking me and what

is the outcome of this test? What does it mean? I was just given the test. I didn't really know what it was about until I started kind of like answering the questions and I was like, oh, they're making sure I'm okay. And I think that, sorry that was such a long explanation of that. So great. So important.

I'm really passionate about it because you're right. Like they should have said, you are safe to answer these questions. We're not going to be institutionalizing you. We just want to help you. And like, you should have been given clear instructions of unless you are a risk to yourself or to others, we're not doing anything. Right, right. Okay, so you guys heard it here now.

Just be honest, don't do what I did. Don't try to fuck the system in that way. Like, oh my gosh. Something that I have read countless times before I was even pregnant, definitely my gosh, something that I have read countless times before I was even pregnant, definitely during pregnancy, the baby feels when you're sad. Oh my God. I'm like, at this point, I'm like, there's no way

because she's thriving and she's kicking and having the best time of her life. And I, like I've said a million times, was not well. I'm finally starting to feel so much better, which is great. So yeah, the baby, like the baby knows when you cry. I mean, they're even like, because my algorithm has changed on Instagram so much,

it's all pregnancy stuff, which I love. But there are literally like videos where it shows like the ultrasound of like your stomach, sort of, or your belly, like contracting. Like this is what it does to the baby when you cry. And I'm like, that's what it does to the baby when I laugh, when I cough, when I hiccup, like shut up. But that whole, the baby will be like preterm, like it's going to be low weight if you're

sad, if you cry about anything. And I'm like, now that I'm pregnant, every pregnant person I know literally cries. The happiest of pregnancy, pregnant people, like my girlfriends will text me, like, I have been crying all day and I don't know why. So I would like to just debunk that myth here and now. The truth of the matter is, A, why put extra pressure on women that we don't need to have? And also, you are absolutely right that our emotions are absolutely heightened when we're pregnant. We are not making our babies suffer because we're crying when we're

pregnant. Let me please debunk that. Of course, there are physiological changes that we have when we have stress or things like that, but you're not hurting your baby. I think that you deserve to feel better. And so that's my argument. You I think that you deserve to feel better. And so that's my argument. You, the mom, deserve to feel better. So if you need medication, which there are so many medications that are safe during pregnancy

that can help your mental health, that's because you deserve to feel better and that will allow you to sleep better and eat better. And those are things that are important for a healthy pregnancy, but you are not damaging your baby. You are not affecting their mental health. If anything, I would like to reframe that and say modeling an attitude where you can be open and honest about mental health struggles

is the best thing you can do for your kid. Now, obviously in utero, we're doing a great job modeling, but for you to say to a mom, don't cry and don't be stressed, the baby's going to feel that, that has never in the history of pregnancy made someone less stressed out. So, got to. No, it's like having like your boyfriend or whoever being like, God, you're being crazy. Like don't be crazy. Calm down.

Yeah, calm down. What's going to make me calm down? Oh, thank you. I didn't know. Calm down. Yeah calm down. What's gonna make me calm down? Oh thank you, I didn't know to calm down. Yeah um so speaking of medication is something else I wanted to talk about because there is a huge huge stigma around medication during pregnancy which I have noticed. I did not even know this was a thing until I became pregnant and I have been on antidepressants for about six years now, which have totally changed my life, love, obsessed with. And really you and I, when we started talking a few weeks ago,

because I've been really honest on, a lot of you guys may not be on medication. I am, I was on Lexapro for years and years. My doctor switched me to Wellbutrin about a year and a half ago when I was trying to get pregnant. I didn't really understand why. I just listened to what he said.

After talking to you, my sweet buck, I find out that I was taken off anti-anxiety medication, still kept on antidepressant, but no more anti-anxiety. So I immediately, when you told me that, I went back to my doctor and I was like, hey, so I was not aware. I just thought my anxiety was like too overbearing

for my medication or something because of pregnancy. No, so my doctor just in the last few weeks put me back on Lexapro. Now, am I crazy to think it could be helping already or is it just my clear train of thought knowing it's going to help? But somehow I fucking feel better. So that's glorious. I believe it. And let me just be clear, I'm a psychiatrist, so I want to stay in my lane.

I know a lot about this stuff. I've experienced it as a person and professionally. I did not have the knowledge to be on medication while I was pregnant because I didn't know. If I were to have another baby, I 100% would be on medication during and after pregnancy. So many of these medications, especially the SSRIs that we talked about, are so well studied. Having a mom who's healthy, who feels okay, is the best thing that you can do for a child. I want it to be enough for the mom to say, I deserve to feel okay, but I know my audience, I know my audience here. It's the best thing for the baby. It's the best thing for the baby. If that's going to get you to take the medicine that you need, I will say, I will use it in those terms. I'll say it in that.

A less stressed mom is the healthiest mom. Like as least badly as you can feel is the healthiest thing that you can do for you and for your baby, whatever that looks like. We want you to function. We want you to be able to eat and sleep and socialize like we were talking about. That's what's gonna make you the healthiest

and the most well-equipped to take care of a baby. So there's always a risk reward. Every everything you do. Are you going to have a diet soda? There's a risk reward. For me, the answer is probably always going to be yes, because I love it. And just the way that it is. But in this situation, I'm a firm believer that if your doctor suggests medicine for you and you are suffering, take the medicine. Oh yeah. And you guys, it really is about your relationship with your doctor and your pregnancy to go back again. Everybody is different. Every body is different because even, I'll just be honest, like my Lexapro when I got it not that long ago, I saw on the side of the bottle, I don't even know why I looked at it. And it's like my Lexapro, when I got it not that long ago, I saw on the side of the bottle, I don't even know why I looked at it,

and it said something about third trimester, be cautious about taking or something crazy. And so I took a picture of it, sent it to my OB, he was like, what medication is that? I was like, oh, sorry, it's Lexapro. And he's like, oh, you're totally fine. You're absolutely fine. So there are going to be warnings on everything.

Don't get Googleitis like I did either because, oh my God, you're going to read everything under the sun is terrible for you. I've read Google things that say citrus is going to be bad for the baby, where I'm like, that's so not true. It's actually really amazing. Oh my God. Is a blow dryer scaring my baby. I literally searched that when I was pregnant. Oh my god, I love you. Oh, it's amazing. The shit that we do, I swear.

I mean, I've had friends tell me like Tylenol is harmful and don't do it. And I had terrible migraines where Tylenol was barely working, but it was like the one thing I had to hang on to. And again, just, I went back to my fertility doctor at the time and said, is Tylenol harmful? And she was like, no, you're fine. And I ended up going on a prescription like tension medication that helped with like caffeine in it, which people are like, don't have coffee or don't have this or don't have any caffeine. And my doctor was like, you have to have a little bit of caffeine. I think it's really gonna help your tension headaches,

like a godsend. Sibilitating migraines? Oh, the worst. I mean that we glorify suffering so much. We kind of say you should be, you somehow get a medal for being able to tough it out and suffer. There's no medal for suffering.

And within all of this too, there was a statistic that I read in the book that was 39% of women suffer from some sort of prenatal mood disorder. So again, guys, this can be pre-clinically diagnosed or not. So obviously I'm talking personally as someone who was diagnosed pre-pregnancy. But you were not, correct? Like, you were not, like, this was something, as you said,

like, if you were to have, like, a third baby, you would go on medication because you know from your previous pregnancies. But as a non-pregnant person with kids, you're not on medication. So it is very normal to feel this way and not be like someone like me who was taking medication prior to. Oh, yes. So it's very common to have an onset of a mental health issue during and after pregnancy. And what's interesting is it's not always anxiety and depression. We hear

postpartum depression. That's kind of the shorthand for any of these things. But you, I reached out to you because you asked about prenatal anxiety, like, is this a thing? And there's also rage. You talked about anger, but there's also like perinatal rage, OCD, psychosis. There are a lot of things that happen to us when our hormones change and our chemistry changes. And definitely having a preexisting mental health condition is a risk factor for having a perinatal mood

and anxiety disorder. That's a fact. But so many women experience their first time experiencing a mental health issue during and after pregnancy. Yeah, actually, when I asked some of the listeners of the podcast on social media any questions, somebody brought up, I suffered from postpartum depression, anxiety, and rage.

Never knew that was a thing. Yep. Which I didn't know until she said that. And I kind of did a quick search before we jumped on this. So I didn't know the rage was a thing either. You know what's so hard? Think about how you'd be talked about the guilt. Think about how much stigma people

feel around anger and true rage when a time when they have a tiny baby sleeping in their house. What happened? So again, very normal. There's normalcy around it. Just make sure you handle it, of course. Do the best that you can. But you are not some crazy anomaly. You are not the only person in the world who feels this by any means. We don't want you to feel that way. There's treatment, but you are not the only one. Exactly. Absolutely.

Oh, something else, something else. This is my little, my little irk of my pregnancy. And this is more just recently because I'm like middle of my second trimester. My new anxiety, my new nervousness is all of my friends being like, and these are friends who have given birth and mostly friends who have not, are you scared of giving birth? Oh my God, Kristen, are you scared of giving birth? I'm like, well, I wasn't. I actually didn't really even think about it.

Thought it'd be something my doctor and I would figure out third trimester because I can't really do anything about it right now. And now that as of late has been something that's kind of gone through my mind where I'm like, oh shit, should I be? Because like you, as you wrote in your book, like I strangely, I didn't realize have a lot of friends who went through hours and hours and hours of labor

and ended up having to do an emergency cesarean section. So because of that, I've literally talked to my doctor from the beginning of second trimester, like, should I just schedule the C-section? Because at this point, it's probably gonna happen to me. Like, I know me, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Which was just, you know, anxiety talk. But I think that's a very real thing too.

It's not something that ever occurred to me. I guess my anxiety was kind of like out there. It wasn't like, will I be a good mom or will birth be hard or, you know, will I be able to take care of my baby? It was none of those things. It was just like, I was anxious about everything, like normal day-to-day stuff, like making a decision. And now it's starting to be like, oh, should I be afraid of giving birth? But then I have friends that remind me like, literally, this has been, we've been giving birth since like years and years and years and thousands of years without hospitals, without medications, without like OBs and ultrasounds.

We're going to be fine. I think, well, first let me validate you because I think that like even people who don't have any anxiety during or before or after pregnancy are a little nervous about giving birth. Like that is a valid thing to say, I don't know how it's going to go and I don't know what it's going to be like. And so that's normal. However, you don't have to be scared. I think that focusing on the things you can control versus the things you cannot

control and then in the middle of those two things are what you can influence. So you can't control certain things. You can't control exactly when the baby's going to come out, how big she is. You can schedule a C-section. I had a scheduled C-section for my second. He came four days early. So you think you can control and you can control what you can. This is what you can control. What's on your playlist? Do you have certain clothing you want to wear? There are very

few things that we have absolute control over. What you can focus on right now is what you can influence. So you can come up with a plan that feels good for you. You can talk to your doctor, see what he says about scheduling a C that feels good for you. You can talk to your doctor. See what he says about scheduling a C-section. Again, you were very good to catch yourself there because just because you had a feeling that it was gonna happen does not mean that it's gonna happen.

I had hours of labor and then a C-section, both my mom and my sister had fast, easy labors. So you just don't know. But I think that for you, someone with anxiety, being able to focus on, You can't control exactly how it's going to go. So let go what you know you cannot control. Because it's just going to take up space, and it's not going to do anything for you anyway. Boom. That's the point right there. It literally does nothing but feed the nervousness.

There's nothing for you to control. You can't control it. You can't control it. You can't control it. You can't control it. You can't control it. You can't control it. You can't control it.

You can't control it. You can't control it. You can't do anything for you anyway. Boom. That's the point right there. It literally does nothing but feed the nervousness. It's not helping anything at all. You know, that's such a great point. This is interesting because my friend Sheena has talked pretty publicly about her postpartum OCD, which I didn't know was a thing until she brought it up. And I got a few people that wrote me and said, could she please touch upon postpartum OCD? It's a reaction to the anxiety piece.

So OCD is truly just a hyper fixation on control. So really similar to what we were just talking about. And just like anything else, someone who maybe has a predisposition for wanting to Have control over things in their life Perhaps has more of a predisposition for prenatal or postpartum ocd But really it's because so many things do feel out of control that they're driven to certain obsessions and compulsions and behaviors that somehow they feel like if they check something enough, or if they do certain rituals,

it will prevent the bad thing from happening. And unfortunately with OCD is every time you give into the compulsion or you give into the obsession and let yourself kind of ruminate on that carousel, it relieves that discomfort in the moment. You're like, okay, I'm going to check the door one more time to make sure it's locked. But then it just perpetuates this cycle because you're not really in control.

It's actually ironically the most out of control thing. But just like the other, you know, the anxiety and depression we talked about, there's treatment. There's, CBT is wonderful for OCD. I did want to ask you about that. CBT, you guys, is cognitive behavioral therapy. I did want to ask you about CBT as well. Yeah. So I primarily actually do DBT, which is dialectical behavioral therapy. And dialectical thinking is really just more than one opposing thing can be true at once.

So I really love the idea of balancing act because it's like the way that I can say, being a mother is so rewarding. I love it so much. And it is so hard. It's not like, but it's more than one thing can be. I am so grateful that I'm pregnant and I'm cripplingly anxious and I wish that I didn't feel this way. Oh, that's so interesting. I didn't know about DBT. DBT is the best. I love it.

DBT is wonderful. It's the old standard. It's about changing your cognitions and identifying the thoughts that perceive certain behaviors and kind of exposing you to things that stress you out and working through them. It's wonderful. DBT is, without getting too nerdy here, it's very specific skill-based therapy. So it's like a very prescriptive activities and modules where you focus on mindfulness,

emotion regulation, distress tolerance, and interpersonal effectiveness. So it's, DBT's awesome. Good to know. Oh, someone was asking and saying that something they're going through, the panic of returning to work after maternity leave is like an anxiety that they have. Something again, I haven't even considered or thought of. I feel very lucky with the work that I have being self-employed, but there is a little bit of anxiety about, like, I'm also lucky we're not filming during my pregnancy, we're not filming during the time I have to give birth. But about,

I would assume, like, if next season gets picked up, we'll start filming probably a couple of months after I give birth. So I'm like, what is that going to be like? And so yeah, I guess, is there, is it kind of the same thing? Like,'s very normal, I would assume the panic of going back to work kind of like of living your life again. Yeah, I mean, first of all, you know, like Sunday scaries. I feel like that's the ultimate Sunday scary of your home, you're in your own bubble. And then so I think it's so normal. It's a valid worry to have to go to work. I don't know what's

what's happening with the baby. You have to figure out the childcare. You can't see every moment of every day, which is actually a blessing. It's wonderful if you can have support and not have to be hyper focused on the baby. But and I also think it's so important for people to continue to have their own identity, whether it's work or hobbies or things like that. But I think that again, and not to be a broken record, but focusing on what you can control and then letting go of the things that you can't will really be empowering and healing. Because if she can focus on the things that are within her control and that she can influence, great.

And then say, but the baby's going to be out of my sight for a couple hours a day and that's going influence great and then say, but the baby's gonna be out of my sight for a couple hours a day and that's gonna be okay. And worrying about it is not going to help and it's not gonna affect it. The constantly self reminder to remind yourself that it's like not only is the baby okay, but like you're also going to be okay. Cause these worries are just,

that's what's perpetuating the worry essentially. It's that's the vicious cycle. And also yes, and to give yourself grace and say, of course, this is hard. How could it not be hard? I was with this baby. The baby was inside of me for all this time, and now I'm leaving and going back to work, which is hard enough as it is. So some grace and some self-compassion is so important.

Yes. Love that. And then how common, just to go a little bit after, how common is postpartum depression? Because this is something new to me. I obviously have not given birth yet. My girlfriend, Nia, who's on The Valley with me, who is now pregnant with her fourth child under the age of four, pregnant with me.

She was very honest on screen and with me as her friend about her postpartum depression last year. And so I kind of want to talk about that a little bit. honest on screen and with me as her friend about her postpartum depression last year. And one of so I kind of want to talk about that a little bit. And then one of the listeners also asked if they have been diagnosed with depression in the past, does that make the PPD much harder? Is that like a fact, I guess? So first of all, I'm so grateful that your friend Nia has been so open because she has this wonderful platform and she has very little kids and many of them

and it's really hard. And to be able to say, I have this beautiful life but this is still hard is really validating for so many. How common is postpartum depression? Okay, so the stats say generally one in five women will be diagnosed with a perinatal mood and anxiety disorder. However, I think it is so much more common.

Those are the women who are diagnosed. That means that they have to seek help, they have insurance, they go to a doctor. You as smart and capable as you are lied on your screening. Many people are lying on their screenings. Don't have a psychiatrist. You're seeking help elsewhere. Yeah. I think it is so common. And I'll tell you, I had baby blues with Belle,

with my daughter. That means for the first couple of weeks, I was really weepy. I thought it was hard. I was overwhelmed. And I went to my mom and I was like, this is so hard. And she said, oh my God, I felt the same way. And that felt like a moment of surrender. And I was like, oh, I feel so hard. And she said, Oh my god, I felt the same way. And that felt like a moment

of surrender. And I was like, Oh, I feel so validated. It's not just that something's wrong with me. And it did not develop into postpartum depression. It was baby blues. I think baby blues are extremely common, just emotional. Can you kind of decipher the difference? I guess like, is it strictly hormonal? Or is it the timeframe? It's the timeframe and the it's really the duration and the severity. So baby blues, you would expect to last for like two weeks. It doesn't really impair your ability to function in your life and you don't need treatment. Whereas if it extends for longer or sometimes

the onset of postpartum depression may be it's not right away, it may be a little bit after, but if it lasts more than two weeks, three weeks, four weeks longer, and it's really interfering with the rest of your life. So for example, if your friends and family are noticing, if you feel like you're not able to find joy in places you normally would and it's persistent, that's when you need help, you need treatment,

whether it's therapy, whether it's persistent, that's when you need help. You need treatment, whether it's therapy, whether it's a support group, whether it's talking to a friend, medicine, or ideally a combination of all those things. That's kind of the distinction. How common is it? I think that having mood fluctuations around pregnancy are almost an inevitable universal thing. We talked about that. But the good thing is because it is so common and well studied, there are a lot of treatment options. And to answer the second question, someone who has preexisting depression

is more likely to develop a perinatal mood and anxiety disorder of some kind, like postpartum depression. However, I actually think there's an advantage because if that person's being treated for depression, whether it's therapy or medicine, then they're really set up for success. Just identifying and knowing what it is that they're experiencing gives them such a leg up. I did not know what was going on with me when I was so depressed during my second pregnancy.

I actually, like you, had a complex migraine and it landed me in the neurologist's office, this old, gentle man, Dr. Schulman. No one was listening to me. I was going to my OB and I was really pregnant and I was like, this is not agreeing with me. I don't feel right. I think this baby needs to come out. He's like, oh, you're pregnant. He.

He's like, it's normal. So I went to sweet, dear old Dr. Schulman, and he said, I'm not worried about your migraines. I'm not worried about anything neurological with you, but I'm worried you're gonna have this baby and develop a walloping case of postpartum depression. And because Dr. Schulman said that to me when I was eight months pregnant and crying

that I didn't want to have a baby, I knew when I started to not be okay, I was like, oh, I know what that is. So I do think that having that knowledge and the just like the vocabulary around depression and mental health issues are a big advantage. That's such a good point. It's just having like the wherewithal and the knowledge

and being able to talk about it. Because I do understand not everyone can afford afford a psychiatrist or not everyone has insurance, not everyone has the resources in that way. But the resources you do have are like whatever family and friends you have around you and educating yourself on the things that we're talking about right now, I think has been the most helpful to me, to be honest. Of anything, this entire pregnancy thus far was like really talking to you about this

and reading the book and like becoming, like accepting the fact that this is just so fucking normal. And then realizing that when it got to or when it has been too bad, not that it's not normal, but it does need to be dealt with. I think I wanna make that clear that like, just because I'm saying like some of my anxiety and depression is all very normal,

it doesn't mean it doesn't need to be dealt with because for me personally, mine really did. And that was through, for me, through medication and through therapy. So I just wanna make that part clear. Don't just ignore it and say, oh, it's all normal, it's fine. And like, let it go. Yes.

If it's something that's debilitating. It's common. It's prevalent. It is not how you should feel. You deserve to feel better. And I think that's what you're saying. Like, it's normal and that this happens is statistically average,

but it is not the norm for how you should be feeling. Yes. Yes. I love it so much. The last thing I wanted to just quickly ask about, which is a little like post, this is like some me questions that I know some of my pregnant friends

have talked to me about too. But like post-baby, I think some, maybe this will all kind of be around the same stuff we've been talking about, but I think some normal worries, at least that I've had that my friends have told me are pretty normal are like worries of being like prepared. No matter how prepared you think you are

that it's still a new journey and that's pretty normal. Or like the baby getting sick, which you talked about, your son had a temperature, you guys had to go to the hospital. Like I've thought about that. I have pictured that scenario in my head so many fucking times, I cannot even tell you where I'm like do I take the baby to the hospital or do I not? Like I don't even have a baby yet and I have pictured the

same scenario. Like don't put a blanket in the crib and there's SIDS and there's this and that whatever and then like don't let anyone kiss your baby because they could give the baby like the herpes simplex virus or something else the baby's so new and creating boundaries and all these kind of like things that are just after the fact. I would assume you probably recommend the same way we've said to deal with all anxieties, is just not freaking out about things you can't control, but like talking them out perhaps or, you know, figuring this out as we go kind of a thing? Absolutely. You mentioned the word boundaries.

Yeah. I think that boundaries are crucial for new parents. I, as I said, was like the first in my family and my friends to have a baby. And so people thought I was nuts, rude, a combination of the both because I didn't want them to kiss the baby. I didn't know. I didn't know. And honestly, I don't know what I would do now. I'd probably be very different parent to a baby than I was.

I just know a lot more now. Right. You've been through it twice. But let me tell you, my son had appendicitis two weeks ago and had to get an emergency appendectomy. Oh my God. And it was really scary. I was in the same ER that I was in, that I about in the book and he was in a stretcher and I was like

How are we back here again? Being a parent is hard. Yeah, and I knew in that moment and I'm not saying this to be trite But I knew that we were I'm like we got this like we can handle it Whatever happens the more that I fret about it is not gonna impact the outcome like we can handle it, whatever happens, the more that I fret about it is not gonna impact the outcome. But back to boundaries. Boundaries are crucial.

And I think that you're allowed to have both internal and external boundaries. So internal boundaries are the things that no one can see. They're inside of you. But we all have people in our lives who like to weigh in with their opinion and maybe give judgments. And we know that some of those things are not helpful,

especially for new parents who are sensitive. It's normal to be sensitive then. So you're gonna have to say to yourself, okay, I'm gonna let this person blab, but I'm not gonna let it stick to me. I'm gonna be Teflon and not Velcro. And so when it comes to this person, I'm gonna put boundaries around what I share with them.

If you know that someone brings you down, don't tell them about all of the things that are worrying you. They're not going to help. You can choose who you let closest to you in your boundary circle. And those are the people, your real people, are the people that you can tell everything to. People who don't lift you up and build you up, you don't need to let us close to you. So those are the internal boundaries that you have. And then external boundaries. You don't have to let people come over. Someone can call it's I have a fourth book coming out in next month. And it's it's a choose your own adventure book dealing with mom guilt. And it's different scenarios. Well, coming your way, I had it sent to you. But the point, I'm not saying this in a self-promotional way,

I'm really just sharing that there's a scenario in it where there's a mom with a baby and there's a well-intentioned family friend calling like, I'm in the neighborhood, can I please come over? And you have different options. You can say yes and you can say no. And both involve boundaries and both involve coping skills where it's like, you say yes, you can say no. And both involve boundaries and both involve coping skills where it's like, you say yes, you can say yes, but you can come for 10 minutes and then the baby's going to go down for a nap. And at 10 minutes, I'm going to kick you out. And so that's a boundary or right now is not a good time. So I will give you a call back when it's a good time for me.

And you may piss people off, but if you're going to piss someone off for setting a boundary, then that's the reason why you have the boundary in the first place. Ooh, drop the mic on that one because I am just learning boundaries. Like I am such a fucking yes person. Such a people pleaser. So nervous to like upset my friends or upset anybody. And throughout the pregnancy, I'm learning little by little about boundaries. Like perfect example, my best friend in the whole wide world, Zach, wanted to come over last night

because I don't ever leave my house. And at first I said, yeah, for sure, come over, okay. And then I was like, hmm, okay, well, if you're gonna come over, you can only come over for two hours. And then about 30 seconds later, I was like, do you want to just do tomorrow instead? He's like, I'm already on my way.

And he came over, they hung out for like two hours, at seven o'clock. I looked at the time and I was like, I can watch one more episode of this thing if you want. He's like, we can just stop now. And then he left and I was like, God bless it. You listen to me. Hallelujah. I didn't have to like feel bad and be like, I really, I got to go to bed.

I went to bed at 830 last night. I was just extra tired. But I was scared that I was gonna have to repeat that and convince, I constantly feel this need to, having to convince people that I'm actually tired or I actually don't feel that great today. And rather than doing that, I think it is exactly what you said.

If someone's not respecting the boundary, that's why the boundary is there in the first place. That's why the boundary exists. And sometimes you need to repeat yourself, especially with someone who's particularly hard headed, but your friend Zach still loves you. You set a boundary. And the fact that he was on his way, like I thought you were just going to say turn around, but you let him come over. And no matter what your people are going to respect your boundaries, even if it disappoints them, It's okay if they're disappointed.

Yeah. It is okay if you disappoint people, you guys, for the sake of yourself. And then I just want to end this amazing, oh my God, I talked to you for hours, with the little quote that was at the end of this first book from your daughter. Happy tears, I cried.

Fear is just a reason to try harder, I die. Where did that wisdom come from out of this little tyke? Oh my God. She's amazing. She talks to me. So now she's about to be 15, which is like, maybe I have a high school girl. She's just amazing. She talks to me all the time about mental health. And the cool thing is because we talk so openly about mental health and with Both my kids like my son knows that with my daughter I didn't have postpartum depression and with him I did and it's been an open conversation because we really want to normalize these issues And know that there's a like all feelings happen and they're all okay and even negative feelings will pass and

Just like a storm, they're gonna feel intense in the moment and they'll pass. But the coolest thing is I now hear them kind of mirroring or echoing the things that I've tried to teach them to their friends. So like if a girl that my daughter's friends with talks badly about her body, my daughter will be like, you are exactly you sized.

And like she just is, she really absorbs it. And I think I have two empathic kids, but I really believe for any moms listening that it's okay to cry and to emote in front of your kids. All you're doing is modeling to them that we all have feelings. We all have big feelings. And when my kids were younger, I used to

say, I can't stop it from raining, but I can give you an umbrella. And I can't stop the rain from falling. But what's interesting is as they've gotten older, I changed it. And I said, I can't stop it from raining, but you can bring your own umbrella. And then now that they're in middle and high school, I say, if you don't bring it, you get wet and then you dry. You're not made of sugar. You're not gonna melt. Just knowing that you can be, that they can be resilient. I think that this all kind of circles back

to what we've been talking about, that what is more badass than a mom who struggled and still fought through it and then said, like, I loved you so much and this was really hard for me and I fought and look, we're here today and I'm still badass. And I think that that's the best thing to model for a kid. Not that everything's easy all the time. That's unrealistic.

But to model that we can persevere and be resilient, like that's, that to me is the most awesome. Yeah, that's a hard hell yes. Because when I think about my mom, I'm like, as an adult, I learned so much more, obviously, but I'm like, oh my God, all the times I thought my mom was just such a pain in the ass, and like giving me rules or grounding me for this or blah, blah, blah.

And I'm like, she was such a badass, raising the three of us and like working so hard. And like, we didn't, we couldn't see any of that as children, but I really do think about that often. And I was scared to have a girl because I'm like, I was a pain in the ass. Like I was insubordinate. I'm tough. I'm a warrior.

Like I go against the grain. I was like, what the hell am I going to do with a little me until I stopped being anxious about that and said, who knows better how to raise a little me than me? A hundred percent. I got this. Like, I have this on lockdown. I know exactly what to do, what to say, what not to do, and what not to say to get things. You know, and there's going to be struggles along the way, but like that's when my anxiety

kind of about having a girl win away. So yeah, the badass, I love it. You're the expert. You're the absolute expert. You're the best. Thank you so much for this. Like people are like all these women and men, the dads out there are going to learn so much.

And everyone, I urge you to go out wherever books are sold. I will have these listed at the bottom of the description for you. And then what's the fourth book called that's coming out? It's called Am I Doing This Right? A Choose Your Own Motherhood Adventure. Oh my God. Jumping on that, let me tell you. Ah, thank you, Becca. I love you so much.

And everyone, thank you so much for listening. If you have any questions, send us an email. Talk to you next week, bye. Make sure to follow us on social media. You can follow me on all platforms, at Kristen Doty, and follow Luke on Instagram at Luke double underscore Broderick. Be sure to click the subscribe button so you can stay

up to date with new episodes. Thanks for listening. See you next week. Okay, so growing up, I didn't get a lot of guidance when it came to money. I didn't understand the value of saving or setting goals. and now as I prepare to become a parent I'm thinking a lot about how I can teach my kids the things I didn't learn early on today's episode is sponsored by acorns early Acorns early is a smart money app and debit card for kids that helps them learn the value of money Parents can set up chores choose how much to pay and they're done, the money goes straight into their account. No cash needed. Kids get their own debit card and they can pick from over 35 designs. Pretty cool for kids. As a parent, I can track their spending, set limits, and, well, block the card if needed. Plus, they can set saving schools and use the

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