Sex, Love, and What Else Matters - Flashback to “Why Do We Stay?” with Stephanie Quayle

Episode Date: May 2, 2025

Episode 156. This week, Kristen and Luke are joined by Stephanie Quayle to talk about relationships and her new book, “Why Do We Stay: How My Toxic Relationship CanHelp You Find Your Freedom” which she wrote with Dr. Keith Campbell.  Stephanie is a country singer-songwriter who frequents the Nashville music scene when she’s not on her Montana ranch.  In this episode, Stephanie opens up about her toxic relationships, how to get out, and how to heal. They also discuss the importance of developing a sense of self and self-worth, as well as finding the help you need with counseling. Why do people stay in toxic relationships? How to no longer be a victim of abuse? What is grief counseling? All this and so much more – tune in now! Sponsors:  DraftKings Casino: Sign up with code DOUTE and start playing to get up to $1,000 in casino credits back with a minimum five-dollar net loss. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi, I'm Vanessa from the podcast Real Moms at Bravo. What happened with Lindsay and Carl or what's going on with the cast of Southern Charm? Find out on Real Moms at Bravo three times a week. Listen to us wherever you podcast. We're so excited. We're all remote today. So Luke is out in Colorado. I'm here in LA and we have a very special guest that we've been conversing with for a hot minute.

She is an amazing country singer songwriter, but also author, which is a huge, huge deal. And the book is called, Why Do We Stay? How My Toxic Relationship Can Help You Find Freedom. So everyone, welcome Stephanie Quill to the podcast. And what I love a lot is that you, instead of having like a ghostwriter, you actually co-wrote this, well, you wrote the book. It's almost, from what I have gathered, it's kind of like part memoir and also like self-help book without being like a self-help book. But you co-wrote this with a doctor, really, with Dr. Keith Campbell. With the guy.

With the guy. With the guy, which is just like the wildest story of how he came into my life. I thought I would write a book one day after this crazy thing happened back in 2009 and I know we'll get into the wild, the stranger than fiction, but when I started writing the book, HarperCollins, when we were talking about like how do we help more people, you know, how do we really create a tool? And so we were thinking like let's bring in an expert who like really knows. I mean we're all experts in our worlds of our lives. But to have someone say, no, this is the terminology.

These are the signs. This is how you do X, Y and Z if you're an X, Y and Z. And so I think that I love reading it from that perspective, too, because I'm like, I go back and I'm, oh, man, look at all this stuff I missed. I didn't know I didn't have the information. So it's really, it is kind of like a little tool. I hope you'll see a bunch of girls and boys carrying around being like, hold on, hold on. No. You know what I mean? Exactly. I think it's not only a book for women. I say women mostly, but for men, of

all humans, if they're either feeling that they're in a toxic relationship, they're trying to digest and move on from one that they're already out of. But for me personally, I think it's such a great gift to give to your best friend, your sister, your aunt, your mother, like whoever it is in your life, because not everyone can see it as you know personally and as I know from being in toxic life because not everyone can see it as you know personally and as I know from being in toxic relationships not everyone can see that path and it takes some gentle coaching from people or and self-realization which is why I think the book is so beautiful. Well that means that means a ton to me and what

you're saying is exactly my hope because it wasn't that I didn't have people like my family saying, Hey, this is not good. You know, I was shocker. I was strong willed and rebellious. And, you know, like, no, I've got this, I've got this figured out. And so I think it also really lends itself to those hard conversations that we don't know how to have with those that we want to be like, Hey, heads up. And I was talking to this father the other day, he read it. And he goes, I want to be a better dad. And I want to make sure I'm being a great husband. Oh, my heart is. I want to make sure I can give this to those

that I can't have that, you know, because it's a hard conversation to have. And a lot of times we won't give our friends and family the credit, you know, when they're like, hey, this person is toxic. And you're like, no, you don't understand. Oh, one trillion percent. And I think anyone who's in,

and I say this word carefully, abusive relationship, because I've said this before on our podcast, but there are many forms of abuse. There's emotional, financial, there's obviously physical. Like, I mean, there's, I forget the number because my sister works with like an abuse charity in Detroit, Michigan. But there are just so many different ways of it.

And I think when people hear the word abuse, they freak out and they think punching, hitting, killing, whatever. But there are other ways to go about it. And so toxicity in itself is a form of abuse. And it's a hard thing even for me to say out loud, where it's like we're not taking accountability, but like I know that it's the truth.

And I think as women, specifically speaking to you, women of being in toxic relationships in the past, that's as soon as you said that, like about family and friends, that's like one of the number one red flags is we're going, I know, I know what you're seeing. But like, if you just knew him, like behind closed doors, he's just different around other people or like excuse, excuse, excuse, you know.

It's so interesting. It's not that we don't or that you didn't have or that we as women, like, or people, humans, like don't have that assistance, help, support. It's just that we don't all listen to it. And if I can just say one of my favorite things right off the bat is that you titled it, We. Oh, yeah. That like punched me right in the gut

in a really positive way because it made me feel immediately heard and seen. Like she's not talking about herself, she is, but Stephanie's talking about herself. She's talking about women that have told her about their experience. She's talking to all of us and about us that have gone through this.

And it felt very like inclusive, protective, warm to me. Like you get it. Truly. That's awesome. So thank you for that. I think like too, you know, we all want to tell others what we think they should do. Right?

Girl, don't we know that. What am I doing? And one of the big things that I and I kind of talk about at very beginning of the book, like I didn't leave my first relationship, my first toxic relationship, you know, he died. Yeah. And so I was jolted into that.

And then I didn't do the work and I repeated myself and fell into another toxic relationship. And so one of the things I say in there is like, I was complicit, I made the choices, I stayed. And I think that's also really an important part of the conversation because say in there is like, I was complicit. I made the choices. I stayed. And I think that's also really an important part of the conversation because I think with, especially with narcissists and lots of people,

which can come in any form, family, friends, business. I mean, it hits all places romance. Absolutely, very good point to make. As we get stronger, they give up on us. And so that's really the hope, right? That with podcasts like this and being able to share these stories and then obviously the knowledge of experts like Keith, the stronger we get,

then it's just, we can just laugh it off and it doesn't come into our lives and humans. No, I totally agree. I mean, girl, preach into the choir. I love this so much. So two things right off the bat, I mean, there's like a 50 million questions and things I wanna talk. I mean, girl, oh, preach into the choir. I love this so much. So two things right off the bat. I mean, there's like a 50 million questions and things I wanna talk to you about.

But I am curious about what we were just talking about. Like we sort of touched on like how you got with Keith and decided that you wanted him to be a co-writer on your book, which I love so much. I think it brings, not that your story wouldn't be valid, but it brings like an extra sense of validity, maybe to people who are afraid to read the book. Or that's what I think. I think sometimes as women, speaking for myself, as someone who's been in toxic relationships, many of them, I've been nervous or, you know, reluctant to read a self-help book from someone, but I

think there's a sense of validity that adds to people that are maybe a little afraid when it comes from a doctor as well. But I'm curious about that. And also, as a songwriter, obviously, and as an artist, you are emotional, you feel feelings, you tell stories, that is what you're amazing at. And why you decided to also do a book rather than only do it on your albums, you know? Because I think it's perfection and fascinating and amazing and just for our listeners, so. I appreciate that. So the first conversation I had with Keith, with our publishers, to see if this made, was going to work and made sense and that he was, he felt good about it. He was so validating to me in the first like just moments y'all he, he immediately stopped

our conversation. He's like, Stephanie, I just want you to know something right now. You did nothing wrong. Same. And I get chills just in... Like everyone take a moment, because I know all of the people out there that are listening and feeling what they've been through and they're like, wait, what? So you agree? Okay. It wasn't you. It had nothing even to do with me.

You know, now 15 years later, I have a different view, right? I've been able to forgive and forgive him, forgive myself, forgive the second one. And just in being more a state of just like, what did they go through to get them to a place where they were comfortable living in such, I just look at it like turmoil. Because when you have to be that dishonest that often,

that's got to be exhausting. So yes, so Keith is, I think for what we just described, and meeting him was through another acquaintance of mine that I met through just like divine timing and circumstance. So it just kind of like all got lined up in a really cool way. And now I'm just looking forward to even getting to know him so much further and being able to help so many more people because he was bringing the topic of narcissism to the world like 15 years ago. He's one of the former I mean, he's like an expert. Yeah. I'll go with him. Yeah. He knows, he just knows.

And then to your second question about why the book? So I get three and a half minutes to create my little mini movies, right? My story. And even an album, it's still not. Yeah. It's still not the whole story. You know, like this isn't light material.

Totally. And so I never really touched it in my music until the On The Edge album, the latest one that came before the book. And so when I'm on stage, I hope you guys will come to a show. When I'm on stage, I love to talk to the humans. You see someone connecting with something in a song, and I just want to know them.

If there's something I can say, and I don't get a lot of time. And then afterward at a meet and greet, I usually get in trouble because I love to talk to everybody and I just want to hang out and know and like, and you have your PR going, okay, next, okay, next. And you're like, well, wait, I want to connect with them for a moment. And so I think that the book is an extension of my heart because I go to everywhere I go to all the places I think a lot of times people are like, oh man, she's just like hey, you can do it and you know I am that way But no one knew my story. And so this kind of

Aligns me internally and externally like you know me any which way you know what I'm saying like yeah, you know girl You have me in tears right now No, it's so beautiful though just to say like the book is an extension of your heart Like I I just I understand so much and I think this is just really powerful You know, I wasn't good to me that's I was not good to me. You know, I wasn't good to me. That's it right there. And that, I don't know about how you felt when you were writing and I haven't yet had

a chance to read your book, but I can't wait to. Yeah, it's a little, it's a little, it's a more campy, we like do a lot of making fun of it, but there's a lot of power in it. But just what resonated with me in what you were just saying, like especially about like kind of owning our own shit too, you know, and like, it is the fault of the people treating us poorly, but it's also about really loving ourselves. And that's kind of how I wrap my book up is like, maybe the one is me right now, like, I need to really get back to self love, why I'm accepting these things. It's not my, it's not my fault that this person that these people treat me this way.

However, why am I putting up with it? Right. Love yourself enough to leave, right? Absolutely. The Great Rewards Hunt is on, so join the adventure with DraftKings Casino. For fun seekers, follow the trail to huge jackpots, weekly bonuses, and exclusive games. Plus, new players can get their losses back up to $1,000 in casino credits on their first day. Just sign up with Code Doty and start playing to get up to $1,000 in casino credits back with 5 minimum dollar net loss. Only on DraftKings Casino. The crown is yours. Why do you think people stay in toxic relationships?

What are the factors that make it so hard to leave when they see the signs? Well, I think that seeing the signs and choosing to see the signs, I think the signs are there. It's whether or not we choose to see them, right? Bingo. I think that in my case, I was really good at potentializing the person I was with. I could make them into all the things that I saw as their potential. Luke, what do you say? Like, don't fall in love with someone's potential. Yeah, you don't date their potential. Don't date their potential. Date who they date their potential, date who they are. Yeah, like believe them.

Believe what you have right in front of you. You know, I just, I'm one of those people that's gonna fight to the end and do everything I can to make it work. And I was sure and was reassured that I was the problem. So therefore I'll fix me and then everything will be okay. Yeah. Are we twins? I'm familiar with Kristen.

I know. Oh my gosh, really? Oh no. Are we soul sisters? Yeah. My relationship before Luke was very much, and strangely enough, I'll just preempt this with Luke actually sort of showed me this in conversation when we were first talking and hanging out. I didn't even realize that I was just trying to be whoever the person that I was dating. Like, whoever he wanted me to be.

Because I wasn't this, I wasn't that, da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And it was like insults masked as love. Like, as concern. And I suddenly thought, like, what the hell, I as concern. And I suddenly thought like, what the hell, at the time I'm 39 years old and I've been doing it wrong this whole time, but this person is magically showing me the way out of my best interest kind of a deal.

And so I started truly giving up everything I loved, changing to whoever he wanted me to be hoping that clearly it didn't work out anyway. And then I'm dating Luke, who, as we talked about earlier, like this hunter and a fisher and this country boy and all the things on paper that would never make sense to me, but being in a relationship made perfect sense. Where this other person on paper, I thought, looked like,

that's probably what I need, I guess? So, anywho, I couldn't agree with you more. You kind of talked around like the whole, the tunnel vision. So, Kristin and I kind of, and I'm talking about this, she had this, her eyes set on, this could be her last chance to have a family. So, she's willing to change all these things with her mindset on, here's the end goal. If I do all these things right, I can still get to the end goal. Yeah. Kind of like, wow, just excusing and ignoring all these massive red flags. Yes. Yes. Yeah. What we put ourselves through.

Yeah. What we put ourselves through. So I resonate very much with everything you're saying. And I think all of our listeners are going to go, oh, yep, sounds like something we've dealt with as well. Uh, you know, you're saying, obviously, it's traumatizing having lost your boyfriend when you did. And, you know, going back into a toxic relationship afterward, was it just like the familiarity or what you think

drove you into another toxic relationship? Oh, this,, this one line. And he was very persistent. Like, he... We referred to him as the prince in the book. Very charismatic, very, you know, take-charge kind of person. And I think when he put his sights on me,

it was like, she'll be mine. And the thing that he said to me that really caught me, he said, just irritates me to even say it out loud, but I will for the sake. I'm gonna show you that you can trust men again. Oh, fuck off. Oh my God. I know, it irritates me so much now

because I'm like, oh, come on, Stephanie. Like really? No, but in that moment, I would fully be engulfed in that. Like, oh my God, thank God this guy came into my life to show me how to trust men again. Like, this is what I've been waiting for. Right. And you know, the love bombing, like I had no idea that that was a real thing, but that's a real thing. I totally wanted to talk about love bombing, by the way.

You know, and then you start to think, oh, well, this is how it should have. I should just be like, love bombed. Again, I didn't even know that term before all this stuff. But now it's super interesting how it's just. I think the biggest reason why I fell prey to it, Luke, was because I didn't do the work in between. I didn't go to grief counseling.

I didn't go to what I call emotional rehab, which I finally, you know, eventually did. And I didn't recognize the trauma, right? I just, it was a Wednesday when he died. It was a Sunday following. So five days later, when we were having his public memorial service, when I first learned of these other women.

And then it got confirmed that night. So that was five days. So that's not enough time to process anything. Not to process your relationship, his passing, let alone all of this information. Right, right. And my family, they meant well when they were like, you've got to get over it.

You've got to move on. You know, you're like, okay, how do I do that? You know, I'm still looking at dental records with the coroner to make sure like it was actually him. So wild. So I think that for anyone listening that is going through grief, any which way, there are such resources for grief counseling group, single, virtual, like you name it, there's access to everything now, like never before. Don't wait. Grief compounds.

Grief will catch up with you. I tried to outrun it, and it about took me out. No, I like that you just brought that up, because people are aware that the resources are there, right? Like they know, they can Google it, but there's just this hesitation. There's like, unless someone does it for me kind of a thing, I probably won't. So I like that you just said that. Like, what do you truly recommend for someone who is in your position,

who was in your position? If they're like, I just want them to sort of hear your voice of like, or what worked for you, I guess, that's probably from a personal standpoint. Yeah, I really hope that no one has to go to the edge of their own life, right? To wave their white flag, right? And be like, Okay, I need help. And that's what where it went for me. But if we were able to like, go back to what I you know, what I would have done, I would have done,

I would have immediately gone to grief counseling. And because with grief counseling, grief counselors have the experience and knowledge because they've experienced it. So no one's talking to you like a studied therapist but hasn't had the experience. Does that make sense? Yes.

And I think people do need to know that. It's not this therapist that's like, and I think people do need to know that it's not this like this therapist that's like, oh, here's a clinical study based on because I think a lot of people are nervous about therapy in that realm because they're like, I don't need to the question of like, how are you doing? What's going on? No, they're there because they're they really truly empathize and understand and have experienced it to when they say like, I know what you're feeling.

I might not know the feeling in your experience, but I know what it's like to lose someone. And it is just a different kind of feeling. It's just unlike anything else. So initially I did one-on-one grief counseling. And then because I saw this group, grief counseling support group for within the, here in Nashville, there's this amazing hospice called Alive Hospice. this group, grief counseling support group for within the,

here in Nashville, there's this amazing hospice called Alive Hospice, and they have an incredible grief program that I learned about through a friend who had lost their loved one to cancer. And so I had gone, done the one-on-one, and then I heard about the group and I'm like, how do I get in the group? Like, I want it all.

Like now I'm like a, just a junkie for information. I want to feel it all, I want in the group? Like, I want it all. Like, now I'm like just a junkie for information. I want to feel it all. I want to tear it all apart, rebuild it, fix it, you know, do whatever I gotta do. And they said that I had kind of, I timed out. Like essentially, it had been two years plus by the time and they really did these group settings for those that have been, lost someone within six months.

And so- So it's almost this immediate type of- Yeah, yeah, and they're all kind of going through that at the same time. So what I asked, I said, well, what if I can share with them what it looks like if you don't? What if I can be the example of, hey, I'm not, like, you guys are all so, you all are so courageous

to take this on right now. You're doing the work that is gonna save you down the line. And you guys are all so courageous to take this on right now. You're doing the work that is going to save you down the line. And I wish I had, but here's what my experience was without doing that. That's fucking brilliant. I mean, you're really doing like God's work, truly. It saved my life. I mean, honestly, when I say I shouldn't be here, like there's no reason why, when, you know,

there are reasons, but. I know what you mean, yeah. What I think is like, I have to serve. I have to help other people. I have to, because I didn't have this book and I was willing to dim my light and consider myself so unworthy when I was already

enough. I was already enough. I didn't have to, you know, when you said try, I man, I so resonate with that I tried every which way to Sunday to be all the things to all the people. You know, it's like, Nope, I'm just gonna be me and take it or leave it and that's okay. Yeah, and you I truly feel and I'm finding this more, as I grow up, I'm 41, but like, you know, day to day, month to month, year to year,

like you find your tribe, you love them hard. Your circle might change as you grow and that's okay. It's all very okay. Something that we were talking about earlier that I want to touch on for sure is like that foundation of like the sense of self and truly getting to know yourself and knowing your self worth and how important that is in leaving a toxic relationship because in my personal experience, unless I was left,

which pretty much happened every time, then I had to go find the sense of self, I now realize so much more like in the last few years, especially how important it is to really identify with your sense of self, know your worth, not just, oh, for me it was like, well, I have dogs. Those dogs rely on me, so I really need to like wake up in the morning and not be depressed or sad

because they need me. Not that I'm to like wake up in the morning and not be depressed or sad because they need me. Not that I'm worthy of waking up in the morning and having a great day even if this person isn't treating me kindly. And I think a lot of women feel the same way. Yeah. I used to be very accommodating. Don't we know it? Yeah, people pleaser.

Accommodating is so much better than people pleaser though. I've actually never heard accommodating. I always said people pleaser as well, but it's accommodating in a relationship specifically. I don't think I've ever used that term till right now either, but man, it just hit me as we're talking because it was very, I was always making sure

everyone else is good. And I just don't do that anymore. Like when something feels unsettling or my head gets cocked a little like, wait, that doesn't make sense or that doesn't add up. I don't seek it out anymore. I'm like, okay, you do you. I'm just working over here thinking about,

probably she can't even say this, but. You can say anything you want. And if they're gonna flag it, then we remove it, but that's what we do. We just, we'll just honest, Luke, just say whatever the fuck you want. Yeah, yeah, well, just my experience with the TV show was not a positive one.

It was, it seemed like exactly the opposite of what you're saying as far as it felt like being forced to seek out the drama and speak poorly of other people and buy into this sort of thing that was not enjoyable at all for me. Well, I don't do that nice cells. That's fair. Yeah, that's fair. Right?

Yeah. I'm saying moving away from the people that don't treat you right or you see these signs and you don't ignore them anymore because you've done the work. You're going gonna be you. And to see those signs and feel trapped in a friendship or in a group of people is not a good feeling. Yeah, and also I think as you get, I feel like as I've learned and I kind of see stuff,

I think when you talk about blinders, it was all very myopic and now it's like full view. Oh, the tunnel vision. Yeah, all of a sudden you have peripheral vision, you have back vision, like the eyes are all over your head and you're like, what the hell? Was I ignoring or I didn't see it? And all of a sudden you just don't,

and y'all are in the most unique of situations. So I think again, the more we focus on ourselves from not a selfish standpoint, from a self… I never was like, I can't wait to hang out with me today. That was not like, I wouldn't like, oh man, I'm just going to hang out with my basil and my dog. I was always looking outward because and going doing all the things because if I had to get still and quiet, oh, I have to deal with myself. My own worst enemy is sitting being still and quiet with myself

still. I mean, I have the tools so I can get through that at times, but there are moments where I'm like, Oh, no, keep going, keep going, keep going. And I want to know. I'm telling you, once you get to the love of it, you're like, you'd like rather hang out with a basil. It's super weird. Like, no, totally true. You're absolutely right. But I do think like going through lack of abuse, the experience, let's say the experience of dating an actual narcissist. And I understand that, I guess, with the kids these days, the narcissism or the gaslighting and all that, these are like buzzwords, blah, blah, blah,

as people want to call them. I don't think so. I just think people are starting to recognize that there's truth in that. I don't think they're buzzwords. In the last few years, it's the first time I've been comfortable enough to say, I dated a narcissist and I recognize narcissism.

And it is almost impossible to recognize when you're in the thick of it. Because if you're dating a narcissist for a period of time, you are a narcissist's wet dream. of time, you are a narcissist wet dream. You know what I mean? You're frozen. I don't know, where do they go to school? And this is one of the things too that always irritates me when people say, you're smarter than that or you're better than that. I just learned about another woman today.

They're incredible. I just learned of another woman today. She's brilliant. And she learned of a whole lot of stuff because of her narcissistic partner. And it's, you know, it has nothing to do with intellect. It's like the more we get knowledgeable of what we won't tolerate. Exactly.

And I want this for like our listeners who are either victims of narcissist behavior from your partner, from whoever, and also friends, family, of a victim of that. I want them to understand, all of you guys out there, that telling those of you that are friends and family of, telling someone, like, come on, you're better than that. You know better.

Look what he's doing. Look what he's doing. Or she, if you will. Look what they're doing. It's not that easy for the victim of a narcissist to see clearly. Otherwise, we wouldn't be in it. If we knew we wouldn't be in it. We're not like getting high off of like the love from a narcissist. Maybe the love bombing, for sure, which is temporary, right? Absolutely. And it's also just so you know, Stephanie, this is also a term I just learned like in the last two

years, because I don't know those terms. But it really is like a love bombing and then the narcissist behavior and the making you feel less than, making you feel you're not good enough, and convincing us that we are in the wrong and they are in the right and if we don't change we will not succeed etc etc. Yeah and also you mentioned this earlier you know like someone's a narcissist and where they're having that toxicity about them and they just start like kind of picking at you with you know with the one that

about them and they just start like kind of picking at you. With, you know, with the one that died in a plane crash, he would only take me down a notch, so to speak, when I was like shining. And so I remember like I talk about it in the book and it's weird because I'm just, I mean, this is like 15 years ago. So, I mean, I'm 29 years old when he died. I'm gonna be 45 in October.

You know, I remember coming home from the gym, which I, the gym, but I'm like trying to get stronger and like, okay, maybe if I'm in better shape. Oh my God. I'm gonna like either throw up or cry right now. Keep going. Yeah, and I came back from the gym and I was like so proud of myself for going to the gym,

which sounds so minuscule on the grand scheme of things. But what happened is he said to me, proud of myself for going to the gym, which sounds so minuscule on the grand scheme of things. But what happened is he said to me, he never called me by my first name. He goes, oh, Quail, I see you're bulking up. And it wasn't like any, it was the word bulking up and I never went to the gym again, because it was like, you're getting bigger. I'm putting you down. And I remember just being so like, my little spirit, like my little like baby spirit, you

know, I'm like just this little like I'm just trying to love here. Like way to way to crush my tinkerbell. You know, tinker is broken. You know, like, and this last year's just this last fall, I'm in it was it was this is kind of torture, but I'm gonna share it anyhow, because we're, I had gone to a wedding and not really comfortable in my body.

And I'm like, ah, everything's just not, like I've tried everything, like do this, do that. And I'm like, ah, this dress and everything's feeling tight. And this bombshell of a woman walks up and I'm like, oh my God, you look amazing. We're acquaintances and such. And she goes, Oh, Zempik, I'm on Zempik. You need to go on a Zempik. And I'm like, okay, good to know.

You're like, Oh, the company you keep. I was like, have I ever tried just eating and working out? That was my question for myself when I went and had like a little Zempik conversation in the mirror. And I said, Stephanie, have you ever just tried working out and just like eat and work out? Let's just start there. And if all else fails, maybe then we'll start having conversations. But why don't we try the easy button first? And so I started I'm like, okay, I'm gonna come back. And I could hear bulk up still this many years later as I made my way to the gym. And that's just the power of words.

And that's why it doesn't have to be loud. It's not always this angry, loud, you know, when you think of verbal abuse, you can think it's like this, you know, no, it can be very small and insidious. Insidious, is that the word? Insidious, I just like, it just comes and it starts to fester.

I mean, there was another time again, like I'm in my, like, you know, mid twenties. He said, you know, it looks like your face is cracking. Like, I'm like, wow. Yeah, there's one that sticks with me a lot from my last ex was, like, I love you, but you could just be like a classier version of yourself. I was smoking cigarettes.

I quit smoking. I was so proud of myself. I was getting ready to be back on television after not for a few years. And this is what I was talking about earlier, just stopped kind of doing everything I loved. Like I wasn't playing music anymore. This was before my, this podcast and I wanted to start a podcast and he was just kind of like, what are these pipe dreams? Like, what are you doing?

And it was like these pipe dreams and then followed by like, well I love you, but if you were just like a classier version of yourself, like if you just had higher goals, like better things to reach for, like not music and not podcasting and not television and like things that I know that I'm good at that I enjoy. And it was like, and that classier version of yourself just sticks in my head.

Where I'm like, I was raised to be polite, and I know that on TV, like, I've definitely been messy in my 20s and early 30s, whatever. But it just stuck with me so hard going like, but I was raised so well, what do you mean? What does that mean? I'm dissecting the word and dissecting every move that I make. If you were classy, you wouldn't say something like that to someone that you supposedly care about odd. So I, girl. Words, man.

Words are so powerful. They really are. And I'm just going to say this to you. I know we don't know each other well, but when you're using your voice and putting yourself in a position to be scrutinized by the world, that takes a tremendous amount of courage. Yeah. Tremendous amount of courage.

So you have the opportunity to speak into people's lives. Whoever Mr. name, name, name will, mm-mm. Yeah. No. And I think what I love the most, I think my sort of addiction to the reality TV is the fact that I get to have these wild experiences with the people that watch it that write me and say,

oh my gosh, like I had a miscarriage too, or oh my gosh, like I went through this thing too, like thank you for being transparent about it. I'm like, that's why Luke and I have this podcast, like I'm addicted to that connection, that human connection. And so yeah, so just to be dumbed down by a narcissist. Well, let's just dumb down that right there. I think if anyone in your life does not, when you get off this podcast, and you

and Luke go have your little side conversation and you're like man Oh, that was the worst. I would be so bummed out. You know, that's not happening Right. My whole thing is like, you know, how do we lift each other up? Exactly. So like I always look at this like who's in my life That's pulling like an it not an anchor of support. There's different kind of anchors Right, like Luke is a solid anchor. Like he's like, I got you. No matter what those winds bring on this boat, man,

we are here. We're gonna weather the storm. That's a different kind of anchor. I'm talking about the kind that like drag us down. Right, tied around your ankles. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And now you're like grasping and you're going down. I know there's certain things you have to do,

but I would really evaluate anyone that you don't have to. If there's anything, life's too precious, it's too short. I agree, oh my gosh. So what do you think like with your stuff, with your experience in life, obviously, but also writing this book and with, I'll say, Dr. Keith. Because I'm not close enough with him to be like, Keith, you know, he's a doctor. But like, what would be, I don't know if I want to say the word advice or just like your

words of experience on how to no longer be the victim of a narcissist. I don't know if we can necessarily just stop, like don't ever be the victim of a narcissist. And like, we I don't know if we can necessarily just stop like don't ever be the victim of a narcissist. But like, how do you know, just within your experience, like, how do you how can someone possibly no longer be the victim? Well, that's a you know, I wish that would be a great question to ask our expert, Mr. Keith, to Dr. Keith. Just meaning like within your experience of writing this book and you learning on your own. For sure.

I would say there's a few things, but I think the first and foremost thing is, how do you feel about you when no one is around? How do you feel about you when no one is around? Depends on the day. Let's start there. I'm just talking like overall, right? Yeah.

How do you feel about you when no one is around? Okay. So then you've got that baseline, right? That is a fucking foundation right there. Ooh, I don't know if anyone's ever said that so simply to me. And it just brought a smile to my face because I'm thinking immediately when I don't have these outside of know, outside of my bubble things happening. If I can sort of diminish those for a moment, I'm like, I really like myself. I think I'm a good person. Okay, so start there.

Right. I love this for everyone listening and for selfishly me. Yeah. No, it's super important because I am all I will have every day of my life for the rest of my life. Can you say that one more time? Right. So I am all I have every day for the rest of my life. So if I don't have me, like I'm like in the house, I'm like, okay, I like me. Your face is all jacked up with this rash right now,

but you know, I still love you. You know, whatever. Totally. Then it's like, okay, husband. Oh, yeah, husband's cool. He always makes me feel like I've got you and go do everything you can to do everything you can. And, you know, I just think just think about my humans, right?

And that way then when the force is being disturbed by these outside humans that we can't control, right? Right. I think that's also a very great point that it can be really difficult is that we cannot control the actions and words of others. Right. No matter how hard we try to please or fix quote unquote,

we can't change the way someone else is. And just accepting that as progress though. Accepting that and understanding that you can't change them so you can choose to associate with them or not. If they bring you down, why would you continue? Or can you associate with boundaries? There's certain people, family members that might be a little nasty, you know, it's like, can you associate with boundaries?

I think there's also there's, there's like, I kind of look at narcissism as a spectrum, you know, hot dog, but I kind of do think like, a little bit like we all like to survive, we have a little bit of that like self, you know, but there's a there's a difference between like an ego and a narcissist like a narcissist, you know like there it was like you know people throw the word like you were talking about earlier about like the the terminology and like Oh gosh, she's being such a narcissist like there's like that and then there's like our sociopathic

Psychopathic narcissists that are dangerous. That's a wide range. And we're obviously talking about one end of the spectrum when we're, you know, like that we're talking about because that's the one that is so detrimental. It's the one that's the hardest to see the signs. So, you know, I think that as we get stronger, A, they don't waste their time on us cause they can't get what they want.

Right, they move on. Yeah. So imagine we get everyone else strong and then they're just gonna run out. They're gonna run out of humans. I'll be like, what do I do now? Yeah, no. You're just gonna have to stop being a narcissist

if that's possible. And then I think like, do the work. Like go to all your dark places. I went to every place that I wouldn't talk about and I talked about it. You know, I never thought I was gonna write about the night I drank a handle of vodka and considered what it would be like if I just ended it.

You had the thoughts, yeah. Yeah, and the crazy part is, is that toxic number two, the Prince, you know, I called him and I just said, I'm done. And whatever I said, and whatever tone I said, gave him the message. And he ended up calling a friend that then you know, brought suicide prevention, you know, they come, you know, and make a check and all do the wellness check and such. And

that was such a low, such a low, low, low, low point. It's like you don't even, in my experience, it's like you start realizing you're not even recognizing yourself. You're like, wait, like the next day or like when you're out of that frame of mind, you're suddenly going, what? No, I don't want that.

I don't feel that way. But when you're in that darkness of darkness, lows of lows, and someone is really in your head, like as we said earlier, like how powerful words can be. And they are. They're so powerful on a positive spectrum, they're just as powerful on a negative spectrum. What were some warning signs for you?

Like before you actually realized like, this is gaslighting, this is a narcissist, this is a not good human for my life. Did you see the warning signs or did they come later? And then you went, oh. Yeah, well, I think with the first one, I just, I was so in love with him and with our life, you know, building this family, raising his daughter,

that the first year, it wasn't love bombing. It was love. It was this family, raising his daughter that the first year, it wasn't love bombing, it was love. It was a family, you know? It was a family and I was like, oh my gosh, I get my family. And I think that obviously when we love others, we let a lot of things slide, right? And so I think that when, you know,

he said he had to stay late for work or if there was, he always had his phone, always had his phone. Like, now looking back, he never set down his phone. He would come home for dinner later, but he would have already had dinner with someone else before. And so I think one of the big signs for me,

obviously now that I know the signs, I've always met with quail. Never Stephanie, maybe had another Stephanie, I don't know, or Jennifer, and maybe it had like a resemblance. I don't know. I know my other thought was, does he just call or did he call all of them by their last name because it's like to not keep you as close to his heart. Well, hopefully you don't mess up, right? Like if there was a Christina and a Kristen, that would be an easy sl... I don't know, right? I don't know.

I had... Yeah, but it caught your ear. My ex called me Dodie at times, which was really weird because my straight like guy friends like would call me Dodie growing up. And I'm like, I'm not your football friend. Call me by my first name. But then when I had this one specific ex-boyfriend refer

to me by my last name at times, I was like, oh, we are so disconnected. Like, what? It was a moment. So I think that's really interesting. I've never had any woman tell me that before. Really? Yeah. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And so he would always just go to crazy. Well, so crazy your own all you're so insecure. And immediately conversation over, right? I'd be like, Why? Who's that woman? Like, who are you talking to? So did

you? I just your like reaction was always shut down. You didn't have triggers that would get you fired up. I would get, I would get fired up. And like that New Year's, that New Year's Eve in the book where I'm like, all right, this is, you know, 2000, I think it was New Year's of 2007 into 2008. And we're there together and he's up talking to some chick and I'd had a lot to drink. And I'm sure I didn't courageously confront him. You know, like, I'm sure it had a lot of emphatic emphasis on my like, what are you doing? And that's when he, you know, pretty much told me I was going to ruin the night and handed me a

handful of drugs. And here we go again. I am subjecting myself to a very dangerous situation to appease bad behavior. Mm. Oh, girl. I'm like, mm. And then the second guy, interestingly enough. Yeah, wait.

Tell me about that. Like the final, final, I mean, there's so many straws. Like, first of all, too many. But. Oh, it's like, it's like bars worth of straws, like, like multiple bars worth of boxes of straws until you find the one that breaks the camel's back. Yeah, yeah. And he had lied about a situation that I was present to.

And while I was watching him lie to someone else, I started to go, wait, did that not happen? You actually feel crazy for a moment, right? Yes, and then I'm like, wait, is what he just said, is that true? And it was the most, I just felt like, what in the hell have I gotten myself into? I was just, it was nuts. It was nuts. And I kind of get into more of it in the book,

but man, it was just like, how? Sorry guys, we're not getting everything. No, I know. No, I want, but there's- No, everyone buy the book. I literally ordered it. It's on its way. Well, it's not on its way, but it will be on its way

because April 30th, but I pre-ordered, which will remind you again. The lying thing, man, when someone can lie to where you know it's not true and yet you then start to believe it because they're so convincing. So with the second relationship, I don't want to give everything up, but it's like, what was your turning point?

I would say, what was your turning point in, in any of your moments, in any of your relationships? So when like, I don't know why I'm so interested in getting information firsthand, but I am a firsthand information kind of girl. And so I found the woman who he had cheated on me with here in Nashville. She wanted to stay anonymous, which totally understand, meaning she did not want me to know who she was. And I said, that's cool.

I'll find out who you are. And so I just said to her, I'm like, listen, I don't condemn you. I'm not mad at you. You have no idea. But what you give me, if you're willing to just sit down face to face with me, is you give me a closure that without you, I won't be able to close.

Like, you're going to give me those, I know it inherently, I know, but he's so good at convincing me that he didn't do it. And I was still in my vulnerability and fragile and hadn't come into the place I am now, right? And so she was willing to meet with me. And I just wanted to hug her. I just felt like how awful for her

to be mistreated first and foremost, treated so carelessly. That ticked me off, obviously. See, I'm fired up. No, fuck yeah. Fuck yeah. You're like, not only did you do this to me, but you did this to this person and inherently did it to both of us. And God knows if there's anyone else. And this is just him being this person being like the ringleader of this fucking circus of like love bombing and hate, love bombing and hate. And it's like, what the fuck do you deserve to do this to people anymore?

Like we done. Yeah, and so I asked her some very specific questions that I knew that if, that's another thing I think we start learning that when you're around a lot of like narcissistic, toxic, manipulative people, you start to kind of identify how they answer questions. And then you're like, Oh, well, this is like, well, a bunch of horseshit. But you know what I mean? Like, you don't necessarily let them know that because then we've, you know, we know. And I just asked her some very specific questions and her answers were so obvious, Lee, him him that it couldn't have been made

up. Oh no, you knew right away. You're like, that is the way he talks. That is the words that he uses. One million percent. And I just want to read this, this sort of like, just for anyone out there who's in this in a narcissist relationship, a narcissistic relationship or has been or knows someone who is, just to be super clear, I literally wrote this down, but it's a relationship. So it does,

as Stephanie said earlier, doesn't necessarily mean a romantic relationship, although in my experience it typically is. In which one person exploits, distorts, minimizes the perspective and experience of the other person. And the word minimize spoke more boldly to me than anything else. It was like as if, you know, and I've heard this from other friends who have been with narcissists before. This girl Lala who's on Banner pump rules, one of my previous friends, who was with one of the worst narcissists I think I've ever encountered in my life.

And it was like, and one of my exes. But the minimizing of what I do, the minimizing of what my day-to-day is, but also minimizing my feelings, minimizing what I was upset about, minimizing what I was happy about, minimizing just everything, any and everything. And I think that's something so important that I want our listeners to hear. It's not just minimizing your feelings or making you feel less than, it's also literally minimizing anything that's important to you. Your person should be celebrating you. Maybe I have pipe dreams and Luke is supportive of all my pipe dreams.

However, he'll go, you kind of got a lot on your plate right now. For example, I really want to write a cookbook right now. And he's very excited about me wanting to write a cookbook. But he's like, I think you have a lot on your plate. So let's take a second on your time, if you want to write about it or think about it, but let's not just jump into that so you can grasp ahold of, and be responsible with all of your other endeavors.

He doesn't say the cookbook is stupid. You don't have time for that shit. You're barely getting on with your other stuff. It's like, that is the difference. Because with one with this ex, it would have been seriously a cookbook. Oh my god, like it's so dumb. Who's gonna buy that or whatever it is? You know what I mean? I don't like this person. I don't even know this person. I don't even know who we're talking

about. But it's making me mad. Yeah, but I'm just saying I feel like I have friends who have dated people like this or or had like you said, or like coworkers, or a quote unquote friend is what they think is their friend, but it's not a friend. Even a terrible family member just saying like, oh God, that thing, like no. That's narcissistic behavior, and it's not something that people should be putting up with

because they're dampening your dreams, they're shutting out your sparkle, dimming your light, as you said earlier. Why the fuck do we wanna be around someone who dims our light? For the love of God. I don't know. I don't know, I refuse now,

but looking back, I do, I was like, man, I think I just knew, again, that P word, that potential. The potential. And because if only, I remember my mom, she's so cute. She's like, if you think you're going to change a man, you're the only one who's going to change. Woo, mama. Those are some words of wisdom.

She's an adult. Yeah, the only men that change for a relationship are the ones that want to. And they usually change. They change usually for the, I mean, we all change for ourselves at the end of the day, right? Like, we are capable of change, but we're changing for ourselves mainly. That's the only way we can be permanent. Yeah. Unless we're trying to like fix and be better for some. Yeah.

I read books like yours because that is, I think what is so necessary is hearing it from an actual again I love that you have Keith on there as a co-writer but like reading it from a woman's perspective who is not a doctor feels so impactful to me and for me I'm not gonna lie more than anything the fact that you're a songwriter and I know I don't know like firsthand but I know like what that takes out of you and to be like an emotionally vulnerable person. But then to choose to write a book about it is like, holy shit, this is a must read end of story.

Like period end of story. Because like you said earlier, it's like you have what three and a half minutes to put this in one song and you have multiple songs. Of course you have an album, you have all these things, but or albums, but at the end of the day, your song's a three and a half minute story

where your book gets to be, all right, let me really tell you guys what I went through. And in my personal experience, even having a wonderful therapist and wonderful family and friends, having Luke, I feel speaking to other women who have been through it has been the best therapy for me. Because knowing that you're not alone in it is the first step to overcoming it. Yeah. None of us are islands.

But it can really feel that way. A thousand percent. Even when I put out the album on the edge, I was terrified. Even the the edge, I was terrified. Even the week of, I was like, I'm not doing it. Why am I going to share all the things? Everyone thinks I'm just happy-go-lucky-quail. Everything's fine. So I was really stressing about it.

Then when that Friday came, I think I was at the parking lot at the little mall here in Nashville, and I was just sitting in my car. And the messages started coming in. And it was specifically about the lost years, because all of us have lost time in bad relationships. And it kind of like, OK. And then as I started getting more of these stories, as they started learning the story,

you realize that no, none of us are safe from life. So what are we going to do to support each other? And then it was like, okay, if I'm going to do this music thing, I always wanted to serve, right? I always wanted to do I like, sure, I hope I have a number one. And I really hope I do big things, you know? But like, I always want like, I want to like touch people's lives. And this was even before all this craziness. And so now it's like, no, it can't steer me away from that now.

Because we have a purpose. We have a reason that we have all this experience. That beautiful wisdom, if we share it, then imagine the young women and young men that are going to know what not to do to where, you know, when they're doing their podcasts in their 40s, they're like, not talking about this. This is done. It just takes a lot of vulnerability and courage to expose self and be like, hey, I own my stuff. It's very brave and it's very much appreciated. It turns it from pain to healing.

It turns it from pain to power. Talking about it and not avoiding all this stuff, it really does. And it makes people uncomfortable when you're honest. It makes people uncomfortable when you talk about the hard stuff. It really does. And we just, you know, it's like people, it makes people uncomfortable when you're honest. Makes people uncomfortable when you talk about the hard stuff, because it usually makes you think about your own hard stuff. And that's what we have to just make. I'm like, it's okay. We're all jacked up. It's okay. If we can, I kind of want to turn this a little bit to the light at the end of the tunnel because we've done a lot of talking.

Yes, my sweet love. So when, from your last toxic relationship to when you met your current husband, how much time was passed in your healing journey? Gosh. Well, he got me still like amidst healing. Okay. First time I met David, well, I met him and then two days later, he's driving me to the airport and we stopped at this little place to have breakfast.

And I was still in toxic number two relationship when I met David. And I was headed to emotional rehab. So you'll appreciate this Luke, because this is the difference between women and men in the simplest form. You ask me, where are you headed? And I say, well, I'm headed to emotional rehab because my boyfriend's been, you know, allegedly, da da da da da, and I must be the problem. So I'm going to go work with psychologists. And I just like blah, blah, blah. And he's like, oh, I'm not. Where are you headed? Like the state? Colorado. It's just hysterical. So he was, you know, so I was doing that work for like a whole nother gosh, year that was 2012 13. And then I broke up with the prince, which was an adventure.

It was very dramatic. Then December of 13, David had gone to Montana earlier that year with my now stepson. I have two stepkids and he fell in love with Montana. And I also told him before he went to Montana, I'm like, listen, if you go to Montana, I wasn't even living there. If you go to Montana, you're gonna fall in love with it. I'm just letting you know right now.

And he did. And he ended up buying a little house, buying a place there, not a little house, buying a place there. And I went out to his house in December of 13. And it was just like, oh, I feel things. And I wore a turtleneck because I was so nervous. Wait, why did you wear a turtleneck?

Because you were nervous. I was so nervous. Oh, because you were like, like, high V and like rashy. High. Yeah, I get high because I get nervous. So I'm like, I can't let him see how I feel. And why am I feeling things? Because I don't get the guy.

That was me. And I'm driving my dad's car like a teenager. I get there and he, gosh, I was such a nerd. I get out of the car and he's like coming out of the front door and he goes, welcome home. Oh my God. That's a country song. I was just like, you know, like toast.

I was like that little Looney Tunes character that's like, woo. And so we go in the house and we just talk for hours. And I just kept saying that inner monologue, Steph, you don't get this guy. You don't get the guy. You don't get the guy. You get the other guy, even in that moment.

And so then at one point, I'm like, I have to leave. Because you know, you're feelings. Feelings are feelings. And what about you? I'm like, no, I have to go right now. And so I took out of there. Then when he came back to Montana, it was January of 14. I've got to get my years right,

January 14th, it was on. I knew, I, look, I was like, I'ma marry this man. I would carry, Kristen, you'll appreciate this, I would carry a white dress with me in my suitcase. Oh girl, I get it, yeah. Just in case, I was like, I had a show in Vegas, I'm like- That's why my nails are always done. Okay, okay, this is, Luke, I'm sorry, but here we go. So Luke knows

this. I'm not like, yeah, he knows when my nails aren't done. Like if like one of them breaks pops up, I'm like, my nails are broken. Once I knew that he and I were like, in the love and this was going to happen, like we're definitely gonna get married. It's just it's just Like, this is my guy. I got my nails done all the time. I have guitar fingers.

You know, this is standard. Standard shoe. But I had them ready. I had them ready all the time. And it's like he knew because he messed with me so good. He told me we had to like take a dog to Montana. And the week before, we were like driving to Nashville. I'm like, oh, the engagement ring store. You know, I'm like take a dog to Montana. And the week before we were like driving to Nashville, I'm like, oh, the engagement ring store.

You know, I'm like, oops, I left. Engagement ring store, like being such a girl. And he's like, oh yeah, we should probably start looking at rings. And what I did was I internally peeled, internally like knew, I was like, well, it's September, so it's not gonna be my birthday, and it's Christmas, so it's not even happening this year.

So I peeled all my nails off. I peeled them off. And that hurts. You're like, I don't need them right now. Oh, it's September, so it's not going to be my birthday. And it's Christmas. So it's not even happening this year. So I peeled all my nails off. Yeah. Peeled them off. And I don't need them right now. Oh, it fucking hurts. We all do it. Yeah. You're just like rip them off. Like my little revolt, you know, I was like, oh, I don't need these nails anymore. Yeah. Yeah. And so then we go to Montana and we go four wheeling like every other time we go. He takes me up on a hill and I'll have to send you the video.

So it's so adorable. Every other time we go, he takes me up on a hill and I'll have to send you the video. It's so adorable. And he goes, you said all I had to do was take you up on a hill in Montana. Stop it right now. And then I ran around like Macaulay Culkin on the side of a hill, just like screaming at the top of my lungs. And yeah, totally got me. So Luke, your question, going back to it, he knew I still had work to do. He saw

beyond that, if that makes sense. Like the thing I love about David so much is that he knew what he was getting from the get go, because I told him in the first moments of all my stuff, because I was so comfortable. I love about him is I don't have to try at all. There's no try. He likes me for my weird little self. Like he never, never, never, never, never

would ever jeopardize the trust we have, the respect we have, the love, because it's such a respect, it's such, you know, it's like, honestly, I'm not sure I would have put up with me while I was going through the healing process. You know what I'm saying? Like that takes a lot of patience. Yeah, but I love that you said like,

you just were yourself. It was like, whatever you were, you don't have to change it. It was like, here I am, this is who I am. I'm showing up for who I am. Please like, love it or leave it. This is who I am. And like, we always have things to work on. Luke and I, but that's how I showed up for Luke.

I'm like, yo, here's all my shit. But like, not that I'm not willing to like listen to him and him say, well, okay, handle this. Maybe let me help you do whatever, whatever. It's not about that. And I think that's important for listeners to understand that when you're in a healthy relationship, it's not just like, do whatever the fuck you want. No, you have to work together as a unit.

There's you, there's him, or there's this person, this person, and then there's the two of you together. And David is exceptional at courageously confronting in the most kind, loving way. And it's never met with any kind of diminish. It's always like, I want you to be your best. And I just want you to be aware of this. And then it's like, it's even kind of worse because you're like, Oh, man, that's so nicely put. He's really right. He's really right. So, yeah. I'm like, fine. I'll say, although in my shit right now, I'd say that's an area I'm working on.

I think I have the best intentions, but people, my brother, my family members, I don't come off like I think I do at times. I have the best of intentions, but Kristin knows sometimes I'm tired. You're good with me though. No, I'm like brash, a little too direct at times. You know what I mean? I think you have moments of brashness when you're like a little fed up with being gentle. I think you work as gently as possible until you're like, Kristen, I'm exhausted.

Yeah. But there's no like name calling, screaming, you know what I mean? But it's like, I can't get fucking through to you, dude. Like Kristen, I cannot fucking get through to you. And that's the me healing from all the bullshit. But that speaks to me much better. But Luke, you get credit where credit is, too. Like you really, you are gentle as fuck until you're like, you can't hear me. Which other way do I have to speak? But that's

still kind. I'm gentle, so the same thing five times and be like, this isn't getting through. What I'm saying basically is finding the right middle ground to have your attention, to understand the seriousness, because it's like I'm either too passive or I get a little too brash with it and it's just finding the balance. But see how that's still like a healthy way to act in a relationship. You're not always going to see eye to eye like Luke and I get in arguments like everyone disagrees like shit happens but the arguments are not which I'm sure with you know you and your husband it's

not like the arguments aren't what they used to be with this terribly toxic person. It is crazy for anyone to think you're gonna be in a marriage or relationship, et cetera, without having disagreements and arguments. But they don't have to be dark and go for the jugular. The other thing we were talking about before we started recording, Stephanie, is how you are married and still in a long distance relationship,

and it has been your entire relationship. And there's just so many similarities between Kristin and me that I thought was really cool and I think something that should be shared. Yeah. So when we first started dating, I was on tour all the time, right? So Kristin, one of the things I said, I was like,

okay, David, I think you need to come on tour because it looks cool. Like, let's go through this and make sure you want this. Because a music video of a person, man, what a life. Right. Here's the reality of my life, which is, I'm glad we're talking about this because I was going to ask you, obviously he's supportive, you've been married forever, but what that looked like for you. And sometimes we think we want something until we actually get it, and then you're like, oh, this is not what I set up for.

For sure. We immediately were going between really Nashville and North Carolina, Nashville and North Carolina, and then of course, Montana. It wasn't until 2020 that we were together for longer than two weeks. Usually the holidays would be when we get this extended amount of time. So every other would be like, I'd pop in, I'd pop out, he'd pop in, pop out, whatever, he'd come to a show. So we just have this like kind of, oh, we're just,

we're always so fresh. And then COVID, it's like you're living with each other every day. We had some of the most hilarious conversations in that, because you don't notice certain things when you're around each other, in those little moments, right? You're just trying to maximize the moment for all it's worth.

And so, Co, it was really hilarious. I think it was about the first month, we got to the end of the first month, we look at each other and I'm like, I like you. This is, I like, okay, all right. It was hilarious. I love your quirks. I love your quirks and your this and your sleeping

and your brushing of your teeth and whatever, yeah. All the things and it's like, there's nothing offensive about it, it's just hilarious. But one of the things I said to Luke, I said, when you're long distance, with anything, if you wanna make something work, you make it work. And if you need an excuse, long distance is a great excuse. You know, it's like anything.

You can always find the excuse to match, you know, something that you want to have happen. Absolutely. Right. There was a message that I wanted to send to all the women listening to this as well, is that if I'm an example and, you know, your husband's an example,

men will move mountains for the woman they love. Yes. And if they're on the fence and have all these excuses, they're probably not the one. You know, when you said that even earlier, when we were talking, I was like, I have got to tell, I've got some people I'm going to call after this and be like, it's what Luke said. It's true though. I mean, he's made it work for it's been, yeah, about a year and a half, almost

two years since we first hung out and we've made it on the cover since. I met. It's so awesome. Thank you. I didn't tell her all the dirty details, but I told her about the wedding. Just some little sprinkles. Little sprinkles.

Oh my god. Stephanie, thank you so much. Thank you so, so, so much. Girl, you made me. Not you made me. I cried three times already. Like in happiness, in being reminiscent. Everyone, please go read Stephanie's book and follow Stephanie and listen to her music because she's fucking amazing, clearly from this podcast. But once again, the book is called, Why Do We Stay? I want to like

really highlight the we, but the book is called Why do we stay how my toxic relationship can help you find freedom? And yeah, Stephanie quail. Where can they find you on like social media and all that fun stuff all the places all the places where? social media exists I am just as Stephanie quail and Stephanie quail calm for all the tours and places I'll be and which I can't wait to get back out on the road. I can't wait to see you live. Like, I'm freaking out. I'm so excited. You guys, literally, I've been listening to her music

all morning long. You have the most gorgeous, perfect country voice ever. Like, I've been a fan of country since I was, like, basically since I was born. But I'm like a, I'm a 90s country girl, and you bring me back to that OG. Like that OG, you would have sat in if you were old enough, which you're not,

but if you would have been alive and your age now, back then, with the Martina McBride, with the Trisha Yearwood, with the Mindy McCready, like that, that is you. So anyway, I just love you so much. And thank you. And I can't wait to see you live. And everyone, please go read Stephanie's book and follow her on all platforms. And we'll talk to you next time. Thanks again, Stephanie.

Make sure to follow us on social media. You can follow me on all platforms at Kristen Doty and follow Luke on social media. You can follow me on all platforms at Kristen Doty and follow Luke on Instagram at Luke double underscore Broderick. Be sure to click the subscribe button so you can stay up to date with new episodes. Thanks for listening. See you next week. Hey, I don't know about you, but money has always been something that I've struggled to feel in control of. I mean, between bills, planning for the future, and everything in between, it can feel overwhelming. And if you're anything like me, the idea of investing can seem super intimidating, right?

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