Sex Talks With Emma-Louise Boynton - Sex, boundaries, dating and orgasms with Sharmadean Reid, Stack World founder and author of New Methods For Women

Episode Date: June 13, 2024

On this week’s live recording of the podcast Emma’s joined by the founder of The Stack World, Sharmadean Reid, ahead of the publication of her new book, New Methods for Women. True to form, this book is the culmination of everything Sharmadean’s learned from over 10 years of healing and self-development work, laying out her tried and tested approaches to dealing with all of the most important things in life. From setting boundaries to defining what you want in life, to questioning and rewriting the stories you tell yourself about yourself, it is rich with insights and learnings.  The topic of sex and relationships is not one Sharmadean has ever talked about publicly before, so think of this conversation as a mega exclusive as we hear her explain how we can apply the methods laid out in her new book to the way we think about, and approach, sex and dating. You can purchase tickets to the event here. And subscribe to the Sex Talks Substack here.

Hello and welcome to the Sex Talks podcast with me, your host Emma Louise Boynton. Sex Talks exists to engender more honest, open and vulnerable discussions around typically to boot topics, like sex and relationships, gender inequality, and the role technology is playing and changing the way we date, love and fuck. Our relationship to sex tells us so much about who we are and how we show up in the world, which is why I think it's a topic we ought to talk about with a little more nuance and a lot more curiosity. So each week, I'm joined by a new guest whose expertise on the topic I'd really like to mind, and do well just that. From writers, authors and therapists to actors, musicians and founders, we'll hear from a glorious array of humans about

the stuff that gets the heart of what it means to be human. If you want to join the conversation outside of the podcast, sign up to my newsletter with a link in the show notes. or come along to a live recording of the podcast at the London Edition Hotel. Okay, I hope you enjoy the show. If I'm dating someone and I don't orgasm like more than two times in a row, I just say, listen, hold up. This is not cool. On this week's live recording of the podcast, I'm joined by my wonderful friend,

who also happens to be a very talented writer, and the founder of the Stackworld, Shamdeen Reid, ahead of the publication of her brand new book, New Methods for Women. Of all my friends, Charmeline is the person who thinks most philosophically about pretty much every area of her life. She's also the person who has a strategy in a process for everything she does. And as soon as she comes across a new approach or sliver of information she finds valuable, she immediately wants to share it with everyone around her,

keen always to extend rather than pull up the drawbridge to her fellow women. True to form, this book is the culmination of everything she's learned from over 10 years of healing and self-development work, laying out her tried and tested approaches to dealing with all of the most important things in life, from setting boundaries to defining what you want, to questioning and perhaps rewriting the stories you tell yourself about yourself. This book is rich with insights and learnings. Now, as Sharmden says at the outset of the podcast, the topic of sex and relationships isn't one she's ever talked about publicly before. Think of this conversation as a mega exclusive.

But it is something we talk about a lot in our group WhatsApp chats, so I knew she had a lot to say on the subject. I wanted to find out from Sharmadine how we can apply the methods laid out in her new book to the way we think about and approach sex and dating, since there is so much she writes about, but seems so relevant for the sort of topics we discuss. at sex talks. I was unsurprised to learn during this conversation that Charmene actually wishes she had included a method specifically on sex. But lucky for us, we get to hear what this chapter would have looked like from this interview. I came away as I always do when talking to Charmedine, with my mind buzzing and my spirit very much lifted. So, I hope you

into this episode as much as I did. A huge welcome round of applause to Charmadeen. So just in terms of how this conversation will flow, we will do our wonderful interview, we will mine Charmadeen for some more nuggets of wisdom. And then we will have a quick break, and then we will finish up the event with the anonymous Q&A. So to get us started, just to put a context,

I wanted to look at how the new methods that Charmadeen outlines in this book can be applied to the subject matter that we talk about sex. So sex, relationships, intimacy. And as I read it, it felt so obvious about all the ways in which it does, but I think this conversation will add a little bit more, kind of shine a little bit more of a light on things I've been thinking about.

So to show me, to start us off, can you just explain for us? What are the new methods? Thank you for having me. This is going to be known because it's one of my best friends. So it's like we chat rubbish all the time. We've got to be professional. We can't be professional. We can't send memes.

We can't send memes. So new methods for women is my, selfish answer to a quest for why do I feel so uncomfortable and dissatisfied and anxious all the time. I felt like I did everything right. Like I worked really hard at school. I was always an overachiever. We were always overachievers. You know, I got my degree, got the job, started businesses and I think if anyone's seen my career for the last 15, 20 years, it seemed quite effortlessly just rolling into the next thing, the next, and the next thing. But actually, it was so stressful, so lonely, you know, and effectively at 28, I started having, like,

I think many of us here, panic attacks. I didn't know there were panic attacks. I just thought, oh, my chest is hurting. Oh, my chest is hurting. Okay. Until one time I was lying on the floor thinking, I'm having a heart attack and I'm 27 years old. So then I posted it on Facebook. because this is pre-instagram being everything.

And I posted that I was in hospital and I'd had these tests and they found nothing. And the doctor was like, are you stressed? And someone commented underneath, if you've got chest pain, it might actually be a back issue. And I thought, really? So then I just focused on my back.

And I felt that there's this one strip of muscle under my shoulder that starts twitching whenever I'm stressed. To this day, it still does. It's where I store my stress, trauma, everything. So I focused on relaxing that single muscle and I never had a panic attack again. And I thought, how simple.

I tried a method and it worked. What else can I do? So then I just tried methods for everything. I actually going back even further when I was 25 years old, I got pregnant with my firstborn, my only son. I love saying to him my firstborn, he's like, I'm your only child. child and when I was 25 I got pregnant and I learnt about hormones and cortisol and I thought if he's

if I'm stressed creating cortisol that means he's drinking cortisol which means as a fetus he's drinking stress hormones therefore I don't want to be stressed and if you know me you know that's how my brain works if this then that da da da da da da da da da da you know like so then I thought I'm just going to start writing down everything I try as an experiment to make sure that I am happy, healthy, content and satisfied. And it took 10 years. It took a long time. And if anyone has been in therapy or in a program or anything, you know that this is like a forever journey. You know, so then how the book came about was Penguin really wanted me to write a book. And I think what they were expecting was some like millennial girl boss hustle culture book and I said I don't know business is

stressful I don't know if everyone's burnt the fuck out yeah but this is even before bet this is 2017 because everyone was beginning to get frazzled because girl boss had just come at girl boss was out I think 2014 or 15 and they were like oh we need we need like a UK version and they said do you want to write a book like this and I said let me I don't think so and I'm not sure what my idea is yet. And then I was reading, because I was, you know, girl bossing, I was reading loads of business books. I was reading Ray Dalio's principles. I was reading 48 laws of power. I was reading Peter Thiel zero to one. And they're really incredible books. But I was like, Peter Thiel telling me to go and walk into a meeting and

he didn't know I'm black and a woman. He does not know that I'm a black woman. So I cannot just do these tick, tick, things he's telling me to do. So then I thought, what would 48 laws of power look like if it was written for women? What would, you know, principles look like if it was written from a woman's point of view? And

simply just said the exact same information while also perhaps acknowledging that you have these limitations imposed upon you that you might need to cross first. So then it didn't make me feel like I was an idiot because otherwise, and again, this

goes back to I did everything I thought I was meant to do right. Otherwise, we blame ourselves for why we're not achieving the things we're meant to achieve when the entire world is not designed to support us. So I've been quite obsessed with this at the moment, which is, you know, we were forced to do leadership and become leaders and rise to the top, not forced. We were told that that was the way to achieve equity. It was a way to achieve, you know, close the gender gap. We're encouraged to do what men were doing.

We're encouraged to do what men were doing. Lead, you know, do leadership, do entrepreneurship. And both leadership and entrepreneurship are areas which I have been in for a long time. And but I still have to go home and do the housework and I still have, it's all the unpaid labour and the emotional labor. So therefore, you can be angry at yourself. You can think, I must not be doing it right because why am I working as hard as the next. person, not getting the same results. So I just wanted to write a book that's simply acknowledged. It's hard out here. And it's not your fault. And that's what I talk about in the first section.

It was never your fault and I can prove it to you. So the book is split into five sections. Understanding, which is about knowing yourself, truly understanding who you are and why the world is the way it is absorbing, which is a big one, which is how we process information. I feel like Part of this journey is understanding that my entire education is colonised and, you know, even stuff like my health, like the way we process information, whether it's media or voices of authority, I'm just more skeptical now about things. I question everything. Where did you actually get that information from? Who designed it? Who wrote it? What was their agenda when they wrote it? the third section every conversation i have my right wing mum i'm like can you just source that for me yeah and lo behold she does and i'm like well that's the problem yeah or like a peer-reviewed paper that was reviewed by like three german men talking about African women's bodies do you know what

i mean so like i then the third section is applying so now you know yourself and now you know your how you process information you can start applying it so that's when you start doing the test doing the experiments, how you accumulate part four is now you've got to zero. So I kind of say that Peter Till's zero to one was kind of redundant for me when technically I started on minus 10 and I just had to get myself on a level playing field. So now I'm at zero, what can I do to get more? And that might be yes, more wealth, but it might be more control, more autonomy, more friendships, whatever. And then as I've taken you up and I've taken you up, we go to trimming, which is where I'm like, part five trimming

is where you get rid of everything that doesn't serve you. Because I feel like we've all gotten to 28 to 33, 34, and we realize we don't like the friends we grew up with. They're all toxic. We didn't like. There's a mass coal basically happens around 28. It's true though, isn't it? Is it not true?

You start to be like, I'm any friends with you because we went to the same union. I don't actually care about anything you talk about. So then trimming is just getting rid. And it might not just, you know, friends is something I say because it's an easy one for people to understand, but it's habits, it's mental loads. And, you know, one of my favorite essays in that section

is calculate the cost of your visibility. And I argue with friends about this all the time. Trim the amount that people have access to you. Why are you always present, like living off something which is decaying? This is decaying and this is my income. So, 49 essays, five sections, everything I know to now, apart from three essays that I missed out, and one of them's on sex. Which we will get into momentarily.

I just want to say, as you described that, you begin the book with a quote that I absolutely love by Anaisinin. Got that right. In which you say, the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom, which I really, really love. I think it's such a powerful, evocative phrase or term around change is really fucking hard. But there does come a point when not changing is so much harder and is so much heavier. And I love that your book, I guess, kind of charts your process after that moment in which that weight became too much to bear. And he thought, okay, I have to actually begin that process and begin to develop the 48 methods. I said that I wanted to look at how these methods can be applied to thinking about sex and dating and relationships

but I guess we have to first understand what your own relationship was like to sex and I laugh because whenever you and I talk about sex we have such a different experience of sex how we have related to sex how we see it our experience of sex is so vastly different I'm like yeah wasn't it so awful growing up didn't you feel so traumatized now I loved you're like I loved wanking and I'm like I was like I only discovered masturbation at like 20 and shal mean was like what um so tell us then shah what was your relationship like to sex and to self-pleasure growing up ah so I've never really spoken about this ever before publicly because it's not part of my content pillars. What?

What? So, I think it's so... It was never in a deck. It's never in a deck. So I think it's really great that we get to have this conversation. And you're right. Like, our experiences of sex are so different,

but for better or worse. So bear with me while I'll tell you the entire history of my sex life. Firstly, I want to say, that I have had the same-ish or similar body since I was 13 years old. So my experience of sex first comes from being over-sexualized as a young woman, which I think is very common in the black community. You know, we talk about the adultification of black girls,

not only through the household labour or the being the eldest brown daughter syndrome, but you are sexualized from a very young age and that's because you look a certain way but also you're expected to perform in a certain way and when I look back we talk about this all the time I'm one of the few people who I know who have never experienced a kind of sexual trauma So what I mean by that is, and I think Claire is here who did the UN Women Report where it was like 97% of women have been harassed or experienced sexual violence.

Obviously, well, sad to say, obviously, but I have been harassed on the street, yes, by men who will cat call me. But it's in this kind of way of womanly appreciation that I don't find as offensive, if that makes sense. It's hard, you know, like I said, bear with me, because this is. a complex issue, isn't it? That said, because I haven't experienced a sexual trauma or violence as in I haven't been assaulted or, you know, felt physically attacked, and I was raised in a very Jamaican household where sex is seen as almost a romantic form of communication. So if anyone's been to Jamaica or listens to dance hall music, you know that when Vibes Cartel is saying, your pussy's so sweet.

It's like Romeo and Juliet level love letter. Do you get what I'm saying? Is anyone here a Jamaican? Put your hand up if you're Jamaican. I can't be the only Jamaican person. All right, you're going to have to trust me. Because in Jamaica,

it's such an outwardly sexual culture in a womanly appreciative way. Like if you, they love flesh and if you're skinny growing up, that's actually a negative. So we have a word for it called Marga, which is not positive. You don't want to be Marga. If you're a Marga gal, it's not seen as a positive thing.

So they love big, vibrant, sexy women. So when I was 13 and, you know, blooming in my puberty, it was seen as like an appreciation. I can genuinely say I never felt like a victim in my sexuality ever. My mother is also incredibly vivacious. She's like super tall, like five, nine, five, ten. She had the most insane body, like Amazon. In fact, I look like her now. She looked like Patra.

She looked like a dance all queen, right? And she, you know, she had me at 16, so she was very young. And she'd be pushing my brother in the push chair with her calf muscles and a bum. And like, men would literally follow her down the street. And we never were scared. It wasn't like a fear. It was seen as like, oh, you know, whatever.

And also, she, I guess, in her curiosity in her youth, she had quite a lot, and also it was the 80s, 90s, she had quite a lot of sex literature around the house. So I remember reading the joy of sex as a kid. Do you remember that famous book? Obviously I did not work with that. She had a copy in the house. Really?

So I remember reading it. She had porn magazines. I remember reading, like, not porn, but you know how Playboy would have essays in, like long form essays? I remember reading erotic literature and essays, like, in the house. And I remember she had, I'm really digging the archives now of my brain, she had this little cartoon book,

which was a bit like, almost like a Viz. Do you remember Viz, right? It was like a Viz cartoon book of like sexual comic innuendos. And it was like, I'll never forget this because as a child, I remember that's weird. Libran's, it was a Zodiac on. It said Libran's like to be kissed on the elbow. Because obviously it was taking the piss out of Zodiac bullshit, yeah. And I remember thinking, Libran's like to be kissed on the elbow.

What does that mean? Anyway, that was the era that I grew up in, which meant that. I was always very confident in my sexuality but I was also quite tomboy so I played football I wore trousers to school every day so at school I never had a boyfriend never kissed anyone at school I wasn't you know like that wasn't part of my schooling experience I was like the girl in trousers who played football who everyone could have a laugh with that was my role when I was six and I lost my virginity, all hell broke leaves.

I loved having sex. I loved it. I thought it was great. So between the ages of 16 and 18, I had so much sex. Loads. That was the era in which I became so terrified of sex. I had penitre sex the first time and I was like, and thereafter it was like, every time.

I had that with alcohol because I got really, because I got really drunk. I chased boys and vans. But I think this is cultural. It's English versus Jamaican. I had a drink when I was like 14. I threw up all night. I was like, I'm never drinking again.

So you just had that for sex. And I didn't drink again until I was like 19 or some like for ages. So it swings around about, isn't it? So I had so much sex between the ages of 16 and 18 and just loved it and was experimenting and like discovering. and there's, I felt like, and this is where it starts, where I can now start to reflect on it. Not now, actually, I did when I was about 24, 25.

I loved the power it gave me, and I've spoken to you about this before. To me, I felt men can be controlled quite simply with sex. And I was like, did ding! I know how to get a bit of power in my life. And, you know, I'm a vivacious person. I loved clubbing, dancing.

And I just liked meeting people and having fun with them. And how did that exertion of power work with the guys that you were? Well, it's like, it's, we remember being in a club on the dance floor and you're dancing and you catch someone's eye. And I'd be like, It's the best feeling ever, isn't it? And I can say this because it was like 35 years ago. Now I'm like, yes, you can see my nipples.

Yeah, you're having it. You're having my youth because now I'm old. Now I'm sexually liberated. Now she's sexually liberated. I'm like wearing my sexuality. Yeah, and I'm the opposite. I'm the opposite. I hardly have any sex now.

So, you know. I'm not saying I'm actually having much sex. But I'm thinking about it. And when I'm in the club, which is not that after. I am wearing my sexuality very loudly and proudly. But yeah, I should probably do some more fucking. Yeah, you should. So when I was 18, I met my first boyfriend

and then I was with my boyfriend. So I think what's also quite a Gemini trait is we are quite monogamous, like loyal. Once we like someone, I think it's a bit of laziness. So once I'm with someone, I then just am with that person, if that makes sense. So when I'm not with someone, I'm happy to. to like have sex but when I'm with someone I just want to have sex as much as possible with

that one person see this is where I've been let down because I've had my sexual revolution haven't had a long-term partner since whoever gets the privilege getting Ian alive imagine what that person is going to get sexually this isn't an advert she's recording this for a hinge video she's recorded she and anyways this has been sponsored by insert name of app that helps have sex more often. So, I had my first boyfriend. We had a really good relationship and then we moved to London together

and I remember the first time he didn't want to have sex because he was really stressed at uni. We were both at uni. I was at some minds. Nothing to be stressed about there. Hardly do anything. And he was really stressed

and he didn't want to have sex. And I felt like a dagger had hit my chest. Did you feel like he'd taken away your power? I felt the first sense of rejection. And that was the first time you'd experience rejection. Apart from my father, my absent father, which the whole book's about.

But like, it was the first time that I experienced rejection. And I'll never forget one of my dorm mates saying, just get into bed naked and he won't be able to not have sex. And I did that and it did work, but it felt like a trick. It felt like a cheap trick. Do you know what I mean?

And I remember thinking, wow, I'm putting way too much emphasis on his desire to have sex with me. And I think the reason I didn't actually put it in the book is because I dealt with it when I was 23. As in like I had that thought later on, like, sorry, so early that it wasn't part of my methods. But actually, it's a really important part because what I realized was that for me, sex is and was part of a self-soothing mechanism to be like I am wanted, attractive, upseted, desired and validated. And it was a huge part of the validation I felt in my daily life. Because, you know, I'm older now, but when I was younger, if I walked down the street,

men would always be looking at me all the time no but i mean like i care less now because you know sometimes i see girls now who are like 25 26 and they've got knee-high boots and a skirt on and i'm like oh you guys look so cute i'm so happy i don't have to wear those clothes anymore but i just think god you look so cold yeah you look cold but we did that like when i look photos of me doing 10 coats on at all times I was like this is why I wasn't and you had the bags I did the bags and the coats you have the bags and the coats you have the bags and I just say actually it's so interesting the way you described that because I think your I only ever chased men who didn't like me that was just my thing I only liked people who didn't like me

back and I became totally that and that Gemini monogamy you talked about there yes but I applied it to people who weren't with me so I was like innately deeply monogamous with the like one person who just did not like me and was never going to like me and only wanted to sleep with all my friends and did so every single one of them crazy people but so I think when you just I know they all kick themselves now don't worry but I think so when you describe that having been the kind of root

for your or kind of core pillar of your validation it's so interesting hearing that because I think for me it was the absolute reverse it was the thing that reminded me or made me feel that I was unlovable and that people didn't want me and that I wasn't sexual because I was in my mind because of the way I decided to spend my love I was always being rejected and then when I had sex it was not good but my take on that was what you described that feeling of unlovable I had with my father so this is what I mean

when I say it's a very complex issue isn't it because whatever I wasn't getting from my so just for clarity my mum had me at 16 and I'm half Jamaican half Indian my father's Indian I don't know who he is I don't his name and it it was this like thing that no one spoke about and no one still does speak about it really but I had really loving grandfather and I had really loving family but there's all there was always this part of me that just wondered because also I look quite different when I was younger to my brothers and sisters you know so I always had this part of me that was like unknown and then your brain is like well if my primary caregiver who is meant to automatically love me doesn't love me, how can I get love guaranteed? I can get love guaranteed by being sexy and I've

always been sexy and I've always been sexual and I've always demanded my pleasure. I remember once having sex with a guy that I was with for a while and you know you wake up in the night and then you fumble around and I always say this to my boyfriends right. If you wake up in the night and you want to have sex, I will have sex. I was thinking that not expressing it the other day I just let them know I just say if you wake up it's all right we can have sex so he woke up in the night and he wakes me up to have sex and I'm having sex but he's doing it so um robotically I went can you stop this is not this is boring and he went no one's ever done that to me before but you're right I am being mechanic and I'm not thinking

about you because I'm half asleep but the fact that I feel confident enough to have the power to say it and then we had sex how we should have sex but I think there's so many times when I hear my friends talk about bad sex craps you know sex where they didn't feel they didn't like it god forbid sex where you don't have an orgasm I mean how much time do we have on the orgasm I literally say if I'm dating someone and I don't orgasm like more than two times in a row, I just say, listen, hold up. This is not cool. I am not having sex where I don't orgasm.

Like, I'm just not doing it. So it's like I... That sex talks wrapped. That's all we had to say, everybody. But it's really the essay that I probably... you know, because like I said, there's so many things I want to say about sex in terms of understanding that I, you can love it, understanding that it was also a bit negative because I was using it as a validation, understanding that I don't have to use sex as validation. And my partner, when he was stressed, I have since been stressed and also understood having a low libido when you're stressed. And a good relationship is where you both feel safe enough so that he doesn't feel the pressure. I have been called a sex pest at times. So like, I now understand that the pressure we put on men

to deliver that performance is just as bad as him expecting me to like lie back and take it. Do you get what I'm saying? Totally. But then also, I think there's something really important about prioritising your pleasure. My pleasure, and I don't just mean in sex in life, as you well know, I like things just so.

I like a nice smell. a nice room everything you know if anyone studied philosophy here this idea of moving away from pain and towards pleasure is really important to me like my pleasure's important so therefore I'm going to verbalise when I'm not experiencing it from the person who should be kindest loving to me so I think these things are really really important to to reflect on and talk about like what the what are they doing for you and what are you doing for yourself 100%. And with that, as you're saying that, Char, I'm just thinking, we've spoken a lot at sex talks previously about how confidence in the bedroom builds confidence in the boardroom. And I certainly felt prior to doing sex therapy and having my sexual revolution, which I talked about ad nauseum now. But I felt prior to that, there was this part of me, there was this element of myself that was dysfunctional. I couldn't orgasm and partner sex. I didn't like sex. I had a really bad relationship to my body and I felt really broken. And it's only in the with hindsight that I can see

how that trickled into other aspects of my life, the public persona of me was always confident and bubbly and chatty, but in a kind of overcompensatory sort of way. It really needed you to like me and I talked really, really fast all the time and I over prepared for everything and it was kind of this

just everything was an overcompensation and I think there was because there was just feeling it not at a conscious level, an unconscious level, that there was a bit of me that was just broken, that just did not work. And it was in doing sex therapy that I began to rebuild that connection to myself that I'd never really had

because I'd had this eating disorder that'd like really broken up my relationship to my body and hence to sex. And so as you're talking there, I'm just wondering you've always had this quite unrivaled confidence and kind of vision and determination in what you've done. I mean, you set up war nails

in your early 20s. You've always run your own businesses. You've raised huge amounts of money, 5 million plus for your businesses. You've always been someone who is just pushed and pushed and seemingly had this abundance of self-confidence. Do you think those two things are linked? Do you think that

confidence in the bedroom with yourself, with your body, with your pleasure has been a kind of motor engine behind, or maybe not a motor engine, but a pillar behind that outward confidence? I've not, I can't say for sure because it's like causation correlation, right? But there are two

things I will say. Firstly, I take it back to my Jamaican upbringing, which is Jamaicans are well overconfident. Like, there's two things that always make me think about the confidence. There's a shack that I drive past in Montego Bay, and it's literally a shack about as big as that speaker box. And on the front, it says future Walmart. And that's all you need, that is all you need to know about the Jamaican confidence.

And then the other thing, there's a song by Christopher, something called I'm a Big Deal. When you go home tonight, you're walking home, you're on the tube, whatever. but I urge you to listen to that song. The lyrics are, I'm a big deal. Me and my friends are a big deal. We're very, very, very important, for real. And I love it. And this is like some kids in the hood in Jamaica.

And I just, that is the confidence of being Jamaican. And I was surrounded by that 24-7. And the second thing I'll say is, when I am with a partner in a relationship, having sex every day, I am so much happier at work. I'm just, I don't know if I'm confident, but I'm happy. I go to work with a spring in my step.

I bet you do. I just feel, I feel whole and safe. And it's hard for me to say if it's the wiring in my brain. So you remember I told you about self-soothing? So I do think that your neural pathways are always developing, right? and your brain is developing until you're 25. So if you think about all the sex I was having between 16 and 25, my neural pathway is created to say,

sex feels nice, sex feels good. You are powerful when you are having sex. So that is my brain pathway now. And the thing I had to unlearn was the validation part, which I unlearned pretty quickly, actually. But like for you, you've had to unlearn sex is bad, sex is painful. Because those, that teenage experiences that you've had have shaped and wired your brain.

So I think that when I have sex, my brain is still underlying says. You're so cool and powerful and sexy. Go to, go forth and do great work. Next time you're having sex, I urge you all to have Shamdeen Reid's line going through your head. Yes, this is good. Go forth. But not if it's not. though. No, I mean, obviously you don't want to fake it.

And, you know, I don't orgasm through oral sex if that makes you feel better. Oh, that's. See? We all are different. And that's the point. It's like, it's really, you know, going back to the book, I constantly say, understand what works for you and do what's right for you and have, what you'll find about the book is there's a constant process of self-questioning. I feel that there is an abundance of women's literature about feelings and emotions because that's how we communicate and that's how we tell stories. Stories are human and emotional. What I'm really curious about now is how do you think and how do you make decisions?

Because I feel like that is not part of the canon of literature for women. So, you know, we have a journal club every Sunday on the stat because I want people to write their own methods. I want you to say, here's what I like, here's what I don't like. This works for me, this doesn't work for me, and then actually action it. So, you know, I will say, just like I said to someone, if you want to wake me up in the night and have sex, it's okay. But it's not okay for me to not have an orgasm twice in a row, you know?

And just, and setting your boundary around that and being able to verbalise it because we don't often use our voices to say what we want. I just think it's really about knowing what works for you. And if you're not having good sex, don't trick yourself into being like, I'm enjoying this. And I just think as women, we do that a lot. We try and convince ourselves.

This is okay. I can put up with this. I'm strong enough to take it. Let's not bother these people. I don't want to bother. I don't want to be a disruption. I don't want to bother anyone. Let me just, I'll figure it out later.

And I'm like, fuck no. Like, life is way too short to be constant. constantly on the back foot, constantly taking it. And, you know, if you can outline your decision-making process and your thought process, you can avoid making poor decisions and you can avoid having thoughts that are resentful and bitter because it got taken out of the book, right, because I didn't like the design.

But there was a graphic, if anyone knows me, you know, it's very me. I designed this timeline, which I sent to you guys. I love it. And I feel it's an accurate timeline of the heroine's journey. And it was like around 35 or 36, I see women taking two paths. They take a path where they're deciding to make this change. They're starting the path of healing, of self-work, of self-development, or, and by the way, this might be a third time they're trying it, because I tried it at 28, I tried it at 34, 35. or the path of bitterness and resentment.

And then they go down this bitter, bitter, bitter path. And before they know it, the 45 and they hate their life. And I just think that's because they're not saying what they want. They're not saying what they want. They're not reflecting on how they feel. And for many of us in the room, it might have been our moms. You know, it might have been our mothers who just said, it's okay.

everyone else can do what's important to them and I'll be the donkey in the room and the mum is the donkey doing everything and then before you know it they are 50 drinking gin on a Sunday morning and hate in their life and I just didn't want to be like that person and I always think it always comes back to something

I've been mulling over and writing about quite a lot recently about the stories we tell ourselves about ourselves shape how we engage the world how we interpret our experiences, how we interpret our relationships with other people. It's these stories, and you've told a variety of actually different stories this evening, but one of which around your relationship to sex,

it's a very positive story, and it's a story that's shaped, therefore, how you saw yourself as a sexual being. But I just wonder, this is something you talk about in the book, when you, and this is I know, we also talk a lot, but a lot, these narratives that inform our perspective. But you discuss the importance. of challenging our negative beliefs

and actively seeking experiences that contradict them. And for you, that came down to challenging what you term your core belief, that I can only rely on myself. Now, I just wondered, we've talked a lot about sex, but if we kind of shift over the conversation a little bit to romantic relationships,

you've talked and written about swinging between anxious and then avoidant attachment styles. And I just wondered if you could tell us a little bit about how that core belief has manifested in the way way that you approach and experience romantic relationships. Sure. So the belief that I can only rely on myself really comes from, you know, having this

absent father and then I went, I had this kind of crazy school experience where I left the house at 6am every day to go to a school 20 miles away and then came home at 7 p.m. and basically was left to my own devices for most of my childhood. And what it meant was that, I had this real obsession with being financially and mentally secure by myself. So my workaholism really started at age 14 when I did my first waitressing job and got my first 20 pound note, crisp 20 pound note. I was like, I'm rich. And I was like, wow, I can buy shit. I don't have to ask anyone for anything. And that feeling age 14 has staged. with me all the way to now. I can only rely on myself, so I need to be financially secure

and mentally secure to not need to ask anyone for money and to not feel that I'm a loser if I'm not with a partner, you know? Those two things I think are really key. If any of you are single and you go to bed every night thinking I'm going to die alone, I'm going to die alone. That was me And then I just did these methods And now it's not But it was a really core part of my belief

Which is like I can't rely on anyone For anything Therefore I need to hoard To keep myself safe So everything By hoard what do you mean What are you hoarding?

Knowledge, power Money, stuff The ability to If I'm lonely You know Go and have a face and a massage. It's a hoarding of things. So, you know, there's an essay on numbing behaviour in there as well. And everything I'm going to, everything I talk about tonight has, the revelation of it has both

its positives and negatives right, because I think there is a positive as a woman in being financially independent. And actually, I've written a proposal for my second book already and it's really about that. It's really about like how do you truly, how do you truly, how have autonomy, it's by having this mental and financial security. So there's a positive in that. But then the negative is, I've got my stuff and you're not allowed in. No one, if you come in my space,

you know that Whoopi Goldberg me when she says, I don't want to be married because I don't want anyone in my house. I was like, that is me. That is me. That is me. I don't want anyone in my house. I don't ever want to be potentially, vulnerable to being financially or emotionally ruined, those two things that I said.

And that's a big thing of love. You'll trust your heart with someone else and that with that runs a risk, that they can completely break it. And it's the biggest. It is the worst. It's the worst. Why would we do that? It's terrifying.

And also every time. And they're orgasms. And every time my sister who's not here, she's always like, be more vulnerable, be more vulnerable. more vulnerable and guess what happens? They don't be? I know but this is this is the work for my life post 40 but what I will say is that that anxious what you're describing is the anxious attachment I want to be attached and partnered and I was incredibly anxious so there's a whole chapter in the book method 5 label your trauma where I talk about my discovery that I was

codependent you know someone told me I was codependent I was like not me like what is this I didn't not me, actually. Once they told me what it was, I was like, yeah, that's me. And then I went to Slah to sex love addicts for years, loved it. Which is like AA, basically, but for people with... But I think everyone should go, because I've never been to anything that's so human and loving, and I just, every time I was in there, I thought, this is all my friends. All my friends should be here, because they're all talking about boys every 24-7. My friend did go, though, and she said that she, like, the group went around and they were all like, yeah I've been like prosecuted

for being a stalker someone else had been like yeah I have to have sex like 25 times a day and then it got to her and she was like I just keep falling in love and I'm obsessed with boys I think everyone turned her and they were like

no no don't be she's oh she's drama don't be scared she loves a bit of drama I actually found it weirdly normal I found it the opposite if anyone has been to slat it's weirdly normal

it's everyone who's a fantasist it's everyone who's at work thinking about a boy that they saw on the internet that they've met once and then they're designing their future life with them and all the conversations that they have with them so then you think you've had the conversation so you think you know them really well but you've not had a lot of it is fantasists actually anyway you know not selling slah can you um she's selling slah can you just describe for us what codependency is just if anyone's not sure so hmm I don't know what the dictionary definition of code dependency is, but the way that I read it is that you are anxiously attached and you put your partner before anything else. So your brain is always thinking about your partner and it may or may

not be in an obsessive way. So it might just be you start dating someone. Is anyone seen the gone girl monologue of the call girl, right? It's like you start dating someone before you know it. All their friends are your friends. You dress like them. You're planning on moving to their city they're never when when do they move to your city you're all you're always move if this is your circle you're always out of your circle moving towards them rather than them moving towards you and I remember when I separated from my son's father the first thing I thought was wow I've got weekends free because I don't have to go to every single family christening wedding because it's always me crossing coming out of my

circle and doing everything they want to do and I just think how many of us have lost girlfriends to partners I think is it with as a perennally curious person though I do get so fascinated getting to like press my nose up against the window someone else's life and I'm like I want to go to all your things like maybe I could become a rugby player when do they when do they ever do it to make they never do it the other way around they're never like they're kind of like a little tour guide to another life and I have my tour and then I like step out the fantasy and I'm like whoa no I was not meant to be a pro cyclist yeah but also no one what boyfriend do you have that's like becomes curious about

your hobbies and then starts doing them do you get what I mean like so anyway sometimes they read a bit more they tell me they do but I just I just I just feel like it's a it's an obsession or a preoccupation rather with your partner to fill this void and the core thing was that I had this disposition because of emotional neglect as a child, right? I needed, I had this hole that I needed to fill and I filled it with my partner and I loved it. I loved being obsessed with my boyfriend. I loved talking about them. My friends didn't, you know, but I loved it and they were obsessed with me and I loved that

as well and but in a different way, you know. I was very anxiously attached, and then, when I realized what was happening, because I love rational experimentation, I swung to the extreme other end. I swung to the avoidant end, which is, this is my circle, and you ain't coming in, you know? And if you, and I became, and I still kind of am, but I'm okay with it, quite selfish. So I think right now when I day, people are very surprised by how little I give a shit about, I actually surprised myself because if someone said to me, if I'm really into hiking, I would be like,

let's organise a hiking trip. And now I'm like, okay, cool, see you later. And that's me knowing that I'm more in the secure zone now. I've like ordered the boots already. I'm like, do we need polls? Are we poll, are we poll people? That's what I'm saying. And I feel now that I'm securely attached,

but I can't quite tell until I meet someone I am passionate about. Because I haven't really been in love for it. I can't even remember what that means. But I think I need to test now. When I meet someone, and I'll report back, when I meet someone that I fall in love with, that will be the true test of whether I've healed or not. Because I don't know if I have the...

the capability of not being obsessed, but I think I do because I feel quite relaxed and healed and I don't feel anxious, I don't feel it in my chest, I don't feel it in my stomach, you know, that stomach feeling when someone tells you, oh, your ex-boyfriend's date in this new supermoder, I'm like, okay, cool, whereas before I would have been like, bleh, and like, you know, now I just don't care, so I think, okay, it's working. But what I will say is that I'm very stubborn in my desire to maintain my, my life because now my life is full and I remember Oprah Winfrey used to say if someone says you're full of yourself that's the best thing ever fill me up because I'm not waiting for you to

fill me up I'm full. You don't have that void that is. I don't have the void so now because I am so full of myself and I feel that my life is full my partner should be additive and we should meet in the middle together and I do want to be partnered and I do want a husband and I'm really excited about being in love and to me what this book was was getting me to a place where I felt secure and ready enough if I if I'd met my like dream husband when I was 28 I'd fuck it up I was a mess so I wouldn't have been able to handle it I'd be divorced for sure yeah I'd be divorced but I feel I'm ready now um as you say that I was just wondering do you find it difficult in in all aspects of your life you are a leader

as I said before the kind of the visionary the head of the group the head of the company you're a badass boss bitch but in the context of dating relationships it often requires us to be something quite different

to access that vulnerability that is really goddamn hard do you find it hard to go into that space that space of vulnerability speaking of more Gemini memes my favourite Gemini meme is you got to let her be a boss and a baby and I really

I'm attracted to men who are confident in themselves enough that they don't feel the need to either belittle me but they are also ready to soothe me and look after me when I'm ready if that makes sense. I've often said I have no issue being a housewife people don't believe this about me because it looks like I'm a workaholic

But if someone could pay for my life, you know, I'd figure out a way to, you know, squirrel that money away to keep my independence. But I love being a mom so much. Like being a mom has been lovely. I love it. I love being a partner. I love being a girlfriend and a wife. And you can fill up your time with that stuff, you know.

If I was independently wealthy, I wouldn't work for fun. I wouldn't. You love making decks. Yeah, but I struggle to imagine the day when you're not up at midnight making a deck. I'm not up at midnight. That was my old life. I'm 40 hours of yesterday or two days ago. This is my new season two life.

I work a couple of hours a day. I've got a lot of work on at the moment, obviously, because I'm doing this book. But I really enjoy being with my family, you know, growing my herb. I was sleeping till 8 a.m., new for me. But you've got to reduce your desires and living expenses to do that. And the reason why I talk about money so much is because money really is the gateway to choice. Think about it a lot. I think about what economic power does give you and how many women I know who have limited choices because of their lack of economic power.

And if any of you are more interested in this, there's an incredible. incredible podcast that is just like a low-key podcast called The Feminist Finance Podcast by a woman called Alice Something. There's an episode by Helen White, who is a policy designer for big government insurance policy. And she talks in this podcast about how she has to design government policy and she feels compelled to do it because she has seen thousands of women get divorced and, end up in poverty. She said divorce is the number one way that women get into poverty because they have nothing. Can you imagine that? Can you imagine you've given your entire life to someone to raising children, raising a family and then you're divorced and you have nothing. Actually, um, you know, my life's work is gender equity and it makes me feel so sick and angry that there are people, women who don't have this choice, who don't have this freedom because they haven't been able to build that financial security

and it makes me feel sick thinking about it. In a way, is that kind of then, because I was going to ask, as someone who has built women's communities and those networks the past 15 years and as someone who loves data and collecting data and is always collecting information as you do, I just wondered, kind of, as you've gone through this healing journey, whether you have become more cognizant of the behaviour patterns that women around you perhaps end up falling into or repeating

and not in a judgmental way, just kind of observing those patterns when it comes to relationships, when it comes to this kind of relationship dynamics you're talking about, that perhaps are quite detrimental to them and you can kind of see that pattern happening, perhaps you recognise it in yourself. And what I'm hearing from you now is we're talking about kind of economic kind of issues that people come up against when it comes to marriage, for example. But yeah, I wonder if you could maybe just tell us a little bit about maybe any of those patterns that you've seen and how we can essentially try and avoid them.

What I'm really asking for from you is hot dating advice, basically. Based on being a data collecting individual, I want the best data advice you think you now have after 15 years of data collection and a lot of self-healing? I think the mistake I see in the people I know is a lack of just saying, what do I want? It's very simple and it again is the root of the book. What do I want? So what I see more commonly, and I also was,

susceptible to was the first person that just doesn't seem like a monster you're like that'll do all your expectations have been so beaten down they're all like you're like wow you're like wow you asked me a question you must be you're a genius let's get married right now because you asked me a question you know when you watch those pickup artists and they tell you just ask women questions and you're like wow it's true we're so but you know we're basic in that way we just are so devoid of appreciation that he texts you back and you're like oh my god he texts back what an absolute babe so so i have a pattern of my dating style is this i don't meet anyone off dating apps unless i am

90% sure that i will like them so oh my i'm dating is so funny. Anyone who's come to sex or before knows I've gone on a litany. She's an Olympic level dateer. She's done like three dates in one night before. I remember meeting you and you had a five

to seven p.m. session and then she met me for a drink and she had an evening session. And I was like, how'd you date? That's mad. No, no. I think that's probably the opposite. Yeah, but it was really, but I go on the dating apps and I do not arrange to meet anyone. unless I'm really sure that I will like them.

And then 99% of the time, we go on one date, that person's my boyfriend. All of them, you know the names, you know the names. It's true though. It's so true and it happens fast. I am persistence over resistance. I cannot deal with any more admin in my life. So when it comes to dating, particularly from the apps,

I honestly, it's a person who just keeps on fucking asking. They just keep, keep messing me. The wear you down. Yeah, and I'm like, okay, I guess we should. And if they're kind of marginally funny, if they get me on their poetry and prose, I am like, yeah, but think about other situations where like a man might be wearing a woman down

and you're like, okay, then, you know. No, I recognize that as not a great pattern. Don't get worn down because it's really about knowing what you want. And I've got, you know, a talk in the book about doing vision setting. We do vision setting every year in the stat world. membership community and there's a whole section on your partner and what people tend to do is start listing attributes like he's six foot seven he's in the army he's got both legs he's love a man

with legs just basic arbitrary shit go in some eyes and we are talking yeah but that's not it babe it's in decay remember so what i urge people to write is how the partner is how the partner is makes them feel. This partner makes me feel safe. They make me feel like I can achieve anything. They make me feel loved. They make me feel that, you know, how does your partner make you feel? How do you make your partner feel? I can see some staff members here, so you've all done this, haven't you? And it's way better than saying, here's a checkbox of random attributes that I think is my perfect partner. So when I say the mistake is most people don't know what they want is they'll say to me, oh, you know, should I live in this area or that

area? And I'm like, I don't know. What do you want? Like make a list. What's your criteria? It can irritate some people in my life with my obsessive decision-making framework for everything, you know, but it reduces my cognitive load. So, you know, I want everyone to write what they want and whether it's in relationships, whether it's in their job. If you guys have any friends that ask you a question like, what should I do, dot, dot, dot, dot, say, write down five things that are important to you about this decision and give them the work, give them, they're looking to you

to solve your problem. Tell them, new method one guys, the answer is within you. You already know what you want. You just need someone to kind of help you uncover it or you need to find the quiet space to do. it because only you know what works for you. You know what I'm saying? What a brilliant last point to end on because I do want to take a break now before we have questions. Thank you all for your wonderful questions. We're going to try and speed through them as much

as possible. So Charmany, this is what we call rapid fire. I have thus far never managed to it rapid or fire. But we will try and we'll try it through as many as possible. So I love that this is kind of like story time As everyone who comes sex walks knows, I love the questions more than anything else. So, this person's written. After four years of dating, in brackets, I mean in quotation marks, I feel you, fuck boys. I'm now dating someone intentionally and with aligned values. But it feels boring, underlined with an exclamation point. My nervous system feels relaxed or something.

I knew it relaxed. And I feel safe. but I'm so used to thriving of the heightened sexual energy those feelings have only ever dominated. It's slow and steady what I want, but I miss the toxic behavior

I want and need to steer away from. Did you write this? I could have done. I think the question is, what the fuck am I doing? I feel you and thank you so much for that because I think we're all laughing because we can relate, right? That's what comedy is.

I think 100%. I have an essay called Prove Yourself Wrong, which is precisely about this. Instead of proving yourself right, I'm going to date a fuckboy who's unavailable to prove that I am unlovable, right? Because that's what we do.

We date shit people to prove her unlovable. By dating someone different, you are proving yourself wrong. And like I said earlier, you are rewiring your brain. brain to be like this is possible to have and to maintain. What I will say is there's a very thin line between a safe and boring. It's very thin.

I have proved myself wrong by dating someone who didn't activate my anxieties, et cetera. However, it's not quite the relationship I wanted. And I think in an effort to swing the pendulum from fuck boy to good boy, I swung it so far that I forgot what I wanted. And it's about going back to that list of things that you want that are important. So you know now, anonymous person,

you know that you are capable of doing this, which is just the first step, you're capable. But now you need to look at all the other attributes. Yes, your nervous systems relax, tick. Tick. You feel safe. Tick. Are you excited? Are you passionate? Are you inspired? Add some other things underneath to keep the test going. Because well done for proving yourself wrong, but don't lose yourself in the process. Oh, God, that was good advice. I'm really glad I heard that. So thank you. Thank you for that. This is me being Rappify. You both seem to date in different

ways. Hell yeah. But what are both of your suggestions for navigating the literal head fuck of online dating? Everyone. Well, I just think I've said my piece, which is I do not meet anyone ever, that I don't think there's a 90% chance I'm going to fancy you and you will be my boyfriend. So I'll take a completely different, you know. She's a spray and pray approach. Yeah. So I'm re-adopting my old approach, actually, in the coming weeks. I'm about to get busy, okay? It is summer.

It is summer, and I'm feeling hot girl summer. But I do think I was with someone the other day who said a friend of theirs, like, right, I want a partner. And they committed to it, finding a partner, like it was a job. It's a full-time job. She went on two to three days every single week for three months and now has a long-time partner. And I think I agree with that.

my life where I do would like to have someone to carry my bags for me and I the position is open and I think in order to it's really easy to become dispirited actually this is my advice it's really easy to become dispirited from a couple bad dates and I've got friends of mine who will say oh you know I just have such a bad experience dating I just find you know men have been really like not nice to me and they've gone on like one day or two days and the person hasn't liked them or they haven't followed up. That is the nature of dating. Not everyone you meet is going to like you and not everyone you meet you're going to like them. That is just not how it goes. So I think it's just tread lightly as Cocoa Mella's quotes in her brandy but blue sisters. I just interviewed about

that and don't deep it. Go on a lot if you want to find a partner if you want to date more. Go on lots of dates and see every single day as an opportunity to meet someone new. Don't stay too long. Don't get drunk if you don't want to. And just see. it as data collection. Yeah, I was going to say that. I agree with this method because it's a numbers game, right? And it really is about having the numbers. But just you don't have to do it in the way you think a date's going to be, which is you spend all day getting ready. You go out. It's a three-hour thing. It's dinner. Just I've been brushing my hair on a date. Yeah. I come from the gym with wet hair brushed it at the beginning of the date. She's not lying. I just don't really, I was like,

you're going to like me you're not and then write in your journal afterwards what you liked and what you didn't like which is what I do after every relationship I do a post-mortem on the relationship every single time because I want to know where did I let this person down where did they let me down where is our dynamic not working because all I'm doing again is training my brain for the thing do you know what I say to it edging I'm edging closer which is wrong for sex talks but for any For any other conversation, it would be fine. But I am edging closer and closer and closer to knowing the thing that when I see it, I will know it. You know? So the only reason why I was unable to do the spray and prayer poach was because I had a child, which, you know, you don't have. Do I? Surprise. And then I know, I said it hesitantly.

I said it hesitant. And then the second thing is I had a business. So it was really difficult for me to organize dates. Like, I just, it wasn't... Can we have it's like part of the job, actually? I'm like, what stories can I bring you all? Yeah, I'll go out there. It's true.

It's true. But I also think we talked a little bit earlier about the stories we tell ourselves about ourselves are so important. And I do think when it comes to dating, check the story you're telling yourself about yourself. Are you going into these dates thinking, I am great, I'm a catch, this is what I'm looking for,

it's how I want to feel, this is how I know I can make other people feel goes well. Go in with a really positive story because I think it can be easy to then become deflated and feel burnt out from dating when you're going in with a negative story looking for that negative story to be reinforced because guaranteed if you have those negative stories in your head you think you're unlovable you think that no one wants you you will find proof of that a hundred percent but that doesn't it's not it doesn't mean anything like it's true because I this is why I said prove yourself wrong as an essay because our brains are like heat seeking missiles to be right you know what I mean they're just looking for

ways to say told you say next question oh how do you deal with a mismatched libido if the lower libido is the guy and also as a woman that's so hard i think it's about deciding you know sorry to sound repetitive i think it's about deciding how important it is to you so i'm just thinking when i've been in relationships with a mismatched libido and i was able to suppress it for a long time but not forever and I think I was just denying my desires and I think that

only you dear caller knows whether you can maintain that for a lifetime or not or whether it's going to be something that truly bothers you. I've thought about this like I, you know me and my future husband

I always think is it possible to be with the same person and for 20, 30 years and not want to sleep with anyone else because I've never been in that situation. I always scenario plan. So I have scenario planned with my imaginary husband that we are 55 and I say to him

if you want to sleep with somebody else, you can but you just need to tell me in advance so I'm aware and I will also sleep with somebody else. And if this is the thing that is, is go, you know, because if we've got this shared life and everything's gravy, but we're excited about other people, maybe that's okay. And it's also, it's a way of preparing my brain

for a potential conflict or drama without stressing about it. You know, there's a difference between like, the hypothetical pre-worry and scenario planning how you might solve an issue in the future. because I do want to be partnered for life. I don't want to get married to get divorced. So much admin.

Although it's cheaper now, 500 pounds. Yeah, but it's just not my vibe, right? Like, I don't, like, I'm already 40 now. It's the first time I'm getting used to saying it now. So I just think that, to the anonymous question person. Caller. Is this something where you can have a conversation with your partner about the fact that the libido is mismatched?

in a rational way that doesn't, I'm assuming it's heterosexual, doesn't emasculate them, you know, doesn't make them feel unloved and is, your needs are still met. Like how do you meet in the middle? Because I think if you suppress your needs, it will over time build up into a resentment and that's worse.

Actually, you know, when I've, I, you know this well, I end relationships at the exact moment before it starts to become resentful and it confuses them because people are waiting for drama before you break up. So when I wake up, I'll be like this, I'll wake up one day and I'll be like, I'm done now. It's true.

And they will be so confused because to them they're like, but this is amazing. Amazing. And I'm like, I am at the exact threshold before I start to think you're a twat. And because, because I'm, Because I don't want to be that person, I don't want to be someone who's resentful.

I don't want to be someone who's angry. I don't want to be someone complaining about my partner. Sorry, I know this is quick father, libida. I just think that what understand what your threshold is before you feel that this is going to be something that your relationship is going to require serious therapy or, you know, whatever it is. Before it gets to that point, have the conversation

where it's like, these are my needs, how do we make sure my needs are met without crushing your spirit? Very good piece of advice, I think. Can't wait to be a wife, guys. This question I could also have written myself, so thank you for ask this. I adore your teaching of asking yourself,

what do I want, and basing all decisions on that. I would love to practice that, but I find it so hard to know what I want, you and me alike. I find it hard to really tap in and know what I want. Do you have any practical tips to help work out what you actually want? Mate, it's the entire book. But I'll tell you, truly it is the entire book.

And the practical tip, number one, I will say, is a... And the reason why I think you find it hard to know what you want is because you find it hard to be still. Just about to say that. And I think to know what you want, want you have to cultivate a stillness and i've got a couple of essays on that i've got one called return to nature i've got one called cut the noise and you have to find a place of quiet to hear your own voice if that without sounding you know i'd add i think that is so accurate and as someone

who has always struggled to do those two things to sit still and therefore to really identify and define what I want. Something I think about a lot now is it's easy to be a busy fool. Busy doing nothing, I say. Busy doing nothing. And I think don't mistake momentum for progress. And it's something that I find myself doing quite frequently because I love to be busy and I love to be running around a million miles per hour. And in many ways it's a great thing. Like it fuels me. It's what makes my life joyful. But it's in those moments of stillness. that you do find that as Charmeline says, the answer is all within. I remember I had COVID last year, or maybe the year before,

maybe last year, and I was bedbound for like four days. And in those four days, the ideas, the realizations I had whilst confined to my bed, I read like four books and wrote reams. And it was at those moments, I had some really, really, like, cataclysmic realizations about what I wanted the next phase. The sex talks to look like, what I wanted, that I wanted to write more. a lot of stuff that happened and that was because I literally didn't leave my bed for four days and that's kind of my worst nightmare but I think if you're someone that finds it difficult to

sit still like you there will always be a million one things that come up there will always be so many distractions and I love a distraction give me a distraction any day and I'll fucking take it but you have to force yourself to find that quiet time it's in the history of men's literature to seek solitude to go into the mountains to be a monk to do you know to have to space and freedom to think and make art and philosophies and it's not part of the women's canon and I think there's something really powerful about being a woman in solitude and you know there's things I've done like going into the forest by yourself going to a mountain by yourself all of these different things if you find it hard to just ring fence time to do nothing take yourself on a

mini vision quest in order to hear what is within because I remember I used to be so busy I didn't have time to take a ship and I'm being serious as in I would be well someone with IBS I am deeply deeply alarmed by this right people say to learn to love yourself first then you will have a loving partner as someone who struggles with this and is at the start of their healing journey as an avoidant what would you say agree or no just start by liking yourself you know I think this word love that we use and I'm going to give you another motherhood example when you're when you're a mom and you say to your child love you they expect that because that's normal right it's normal for as a mother to love your child and I know there are instances where people don't

have that feeling, you know, even I think my mum probably had postpartum depression as well, but typically there are all these chemicals that induce fake bonding with your child so that you love them. But what I used to say to my son all the time was, I like you, you know, you're quite nice to be around. I really enjoy your company because the love is meant to be automatic and the love is like a given and a big step. We talk about self-love, but I think baby steps, do you like yourself?

Do you like the way you walk? Do you like the way you talk? Do you like the way you think? Do you like the way you make others feel? And, you know, write it down. I think journaling is, for the person who said they're at the start of their healing journey,

I'm so excited for you. I really am. It's so fun. I agree. but just write it journal the whole thing write it down and say here are the things i really like about myself i might not love my thighs but i like my tits i might not do you know what i mean just just start really simply i've said this a lot of sex tools before so my apologies people have already heard this but i think i really love this question because i agree shalman i think

there's a lot of pressure god i love myself and think i'm so fabulous and for a lot of people that can be really unrealistic and me particularly that was to do with body and magician I had even sort of growing up, was Baleigh McAugh for many, many years. And so I found it very difficult to just be on my own. And so did look, so in the context of romantic relationships, was really looking to other people to show me that I was like, had worth outside of myself and that I was okay, that I wasn't broken. But then I had rejections, so they were like, oh, no, you are broken.

And I think one of the things, again, I've repeated this a lot, but I think it's worth saying that my sex therapist told me what she was like, you have to learn to care for yourself, you have to learn to seduce yourself and we talk a lot about self-care and often that's kind of comes under the kind of capitalistic banner

and it's about buying lots of expensive products that we don't necessarily need but I think when I think about what liking myself or loving myself looks like today it's my capacity to care for myself in a way I was never able to growing up because when I was on my own I didn't care for myself

I was being bulimic and being kind of self-destructive and I didn't know how to look after myself alone. When I'm on my own now, caring for myself means getting pleasure. I love to masturbate. Or like having a bath, or like doing something that feels ritualistic and joyful, that doesn't have a higher purpose, doesn't have a specific outcome, but it's just my way of kind of taking care of myself a little bit, a kind of romantic gesture that makes me feel really held.

And being able to give that to myself now has been so, such a huge part of me not feeling like I have this void, I'm now looking for someone else to fill. Yes, I can say I want a partner, I want someone to carry my bags, and all that may be true, but I don't feel this sense of emptiness, like I'm looking for someone else to come and pick me up

and look after me because I know it can look after myself. So I'd also say to that person, learn to seduce yourself. Can I, thank you so much for sharing that. And I want to say, as part of you, of the if anyone has been through a 12-step program part of that addiction process that recovery process is that caring for yourself not self-care but the caring and i remember thinking what are all of the subtle ways that i'm abusing myself because i don't value my body it could be um you know getting too drunk getting too drunk because people know now talk about all the time i drink twice a year, getting too drunk. But also, you know, for me, one was straightening my hair all the time. It's quite a, quite a self-abuse, isn't it, to fry your head? No, but being serious. When put like that, yeah. To fry your head, to be susceptible to being

burned by a hot coma or a straightening iron, in order to fit in and be socially and physically and sexually acceptable. When I did my first ever vision setting, 2017, and I said I want long hair past my shoulders, I was like, well, I can't achieve that if I'm abusing my body by frying my hair all the time, because I was straightening it, chemically straightening the edges and putting extensions in all the time. So it could be little things. And what I love about, like, when I'd been in a meeting, in a slah meeting, someone would say, I've just made a good meal for myself today.

was patient with the meal making and I didn't eat it standing up or someone will say I didn't have promiscuous sex today which is a big deal so just think of those teeny tiny ways that you can start to appreciate the body that we've been so taught to hate you know I say to myself thank you body for keeping me alive for allowing me to live for my heart beating we're so obsessed with how it looks superficially and actually we're just physically functioning and that is a miracle in itself so yeah the the process of self wait what question was it i forgot sorry it's under my butt now it's like do you need to love yourself before someone else can love you yeah i just think like the care is really important and what you said about like taking care of

yourself is part of that recovery process and it is really important slow care steps slow care steps we have lots more questions which we will maybe no no I think we have to I think we have to wrap up because otherwise we how we do we what are you what do you want one more okay okay I'm always conscious of not wanting to either this actually is a beautiful question and maybe we'll answer the rest of the questions on our podcast we'll do together do I feel like clueless do and share on clueless you would share obviously yeah obviously um should we do a podcast I think maybe we should just chat and then we can we like do and share on clueless you would share obviously yeah um should um should we do a podcast I think maybe we should just chat and then we can We can ask, we can ask the rest of these questions. We're going to call it chatting shit. Right, I think that, the branding needs some work. Answer the question. A 36-year-old that is key, that is very single, aren't we all loved, and never been in a long-term relationship.

Any tips for getting myself outdating again? I have a good career. I think of working abroad, but also worried I've left it too late to have new opportunities. Any advice, please, slash, should I be thinking of freezing my eggs? I have so much to send this. you go first I think we live in a society

that tells women specifically and people generally that we are running out of time. We have put such a premium on youth and beauty as the kind of as the things that are markers of success and I think a long and well-lived

life is the ultimate success any of us can hope for and you say you're 36 and you're saying you feel like you're running out of time How do you think you'll feel at 86? You have so many more, God willing, touch wood. You have so many more years left on this planet.

And I always think, if not now, when? If you don't work abroad now, you don't go on that hot day, you don't fuck three people in one night and think, fuck it, I'm spraying and praying and praying or praying and spraying or spray tanning myself, whatever. Like, if not now, when? Now is the best time. yesterday would have been a better time and today is perfectly great and i think we can we're so

conditioned to feel like particularly this woman we have this shelf life in which we can do all the great things in which we have value societally and we can do the way that's just not true you have your whole life to do all the things you want to do and i think the we've just been reflecting on what self-care and love for ourselves looks like i think the ultimate act really of self-love is giving yourself the permission to keep on dreaming and keep on acting in accordance to believing that you can achieve those dreams, whatever they may be. So my first thing, you don't feel like you're running out of time. Whatever it is, you feel like you want to do right now. Like, go and do it. Also, see the fact that you're very single. As right now, you have the ultimate

freedom to be, to be, to do whatever you want to be, to do whatever you want to do, to pursue whatever dream is like at the top of your head. When it comes to freezing of eggs, I have a lot of thoughts on this would never want to advise anyone anything medical but i just think right now a lot of people are making a lot of money out of women's insecurity around their fertility that's not to say don't do it that's not to say it wouldn't work for you but i just think do a lot of research into whether you're doing it because you feel scared and it's been marketed as the ultimate insurance policy and you have to ask yourself is it really and again i'll just like dig a bit deeper like why is it that you feel this like impotence to spend thousands of pounds right now?

Also what I would say is that half fertility issues are caused by men, so it's not just women. So just just research and think, but I think we do, as I say, it's a very high pressure world we live in. And I think a lot of that pressure falls on women's shoulders. So I think we have to constantly sit back and be like, okay, where is this coming from? That's beautiful, yeah. Thanks, everyone. my thoughts on the egg freezing having thought that I would be married with four children right now and like I come from a big family and never ever anticipated I would only have one child

so I briefly considered it and then you know my logical brain looked at the success rate and it was not a probability that I wanted to bank on but at the same time I was reflecting on the fact that there are so many ways to be a mother and I think we put this massive um having this conversation at the end of the night babes not not like you know this is a full conversation but I guess what I want to say is women's reproductivity has been a controlling method of women for so long and is still crazily today being used as a method of control. but if we reflected on what does it mean to be a mother and do you have to really have a vaginal birth to be a mother

and actually many of us have been birthed by people who are not good mothers or not didn't mother us in the way that we needed and what I'm thinking about now is and I've actually written it in my vision setting that part of my personality is that I'm a mother to all do you know what I mean? Part of my character traits is how do I be nurturing to as many people as possible and if you've seen me with other people's children I act like they're my children

I don't really discriminate and you used to annoy my son you know because you're my mum but like if I see a little baby in fact today I was recording a bit of content I was walking on a wall outside White City and there was a little boy about six also walking on the wall

because that's what kids do. And he was staring at me, as if to say, why is that grown woman walking on that wall? And I walked up to him, I went, you want my shoes, don't you? And he started laughing, and he went, no. And his dad came over, and we just had this cute little moment. And I just think that, because of the way I was raised

where a baby was born every single year in my family, I'm very motherly to everyone. So it didn't turn out the way I wanted. I thought I would have more children and it hasn't, but I'm okay thinking about how I can be motherly to all children and adults in a way that makes me feel that that duty

and that role is fulfilled without necessarily being part of the reproductive distribution and production system that controls capitalism and the patriarchy. Wow. She came out of that line at the end of the night. That's what it is. It is. And if any of you are stat members or you're just curious, I'll send you the link. I recorded a lecture about soft power. And when I, part of the lecture is a diagram that I drew about how patriarchy really exists to ensure that women birth enough children to fight wars and pay taxes. That throughout history, that is it. To fund a war requires human capital and who can create humans.

wait wait sorry not create because we all need to create who can grow a human right the womb so it's like you look at it and you're like okay so this is an asset that people in power have had to control and that's my quacko theory a very good theory to end on i think i want to say thank you again to everyone for your wonderful questions and thank you shambine for offering such infinite wisdom on topics and topics this evening that you don't use to discuss publicly so I feel very grateful. Yeah, I'm really grateful for you interview me.

I'm like, can you do all my book tour interviews, please? Yes, I'll come on tour. Just come on tour. Thank you so much for listening to today's Sex Talks podcast with me, your host, Emma Louise Boynton. If you'd like to attend a live recording of the podcast, check out the event bright link in the show notes, as we have lots of exciting live events coming up.

You can also keep up to date with everything coming up at Sex Talks, plus get my sporadic musings. You have a Sex Talk substack. I've also popped that link into the show notes. And over on Instagram, where I'm at Emma Louise Boynton. And finally, if you enjoyed the show, please don't forget to rate, review and subscribe on whatever platform you're listening to this on,

as apparently it helps others to find us. Have a glorious day.