Sex With Emily - Best of: No Shame, Just Sex w/ Erin Tillman

Episode Date: July 15, 2022

What cultural or religious programming do you have around sex? Even if you didn’t grow up in a church, sexual shame is – in so many ways – the air we breathe. But here’s the reality: you didn���t put those thoughts there. Someone else did. And on today’s show with guest Erin Tillman, we’re calling out those judgmental messages, and choosing the sex messaging that actually serves us. The result? A radically more authentic, more liberated sex life.As an inclusive dating coach, Erin is no stranger to shame – and she’s heard it all from her clients. Whether it was that one rude thing a partner said that haunted you for years, or a parent that told you masturbation was dirty, shame love to hide in the shadows…and hold you back in the bedroom. So on today’s show, Erin and I talk about how we healed our own sexual shame, dropped performative sex, and got comfortable with the word “no.” You’ll also learn the difference between “no” and “not yet” when it comes to dating, how to make good choices on dating apps, and how to flip your internal shame script.Show Notes:More Erin Tillman Website | Twitter | InstagramYes No Maybe List Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So, shame to me is a feeling around not being able to live the way you want because of judgment or someone's, someone's putting a feeling on you or something that's been ingrained on you that makes you feel that you're wrong or that you're gross or that you're not enough. That's my definition of shame. You're listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around sex.

So what cultural or religious programming do you have around sex? Even if you didn't grow up in a church, sexual shame is in so many ways the air we breathe. But here's the reality, you didn't put those thoughts there. Someone else did, and on today's show with guest, Aaron Tillman, we're calling out those judgmental messages and choosing the sex messaging that actually serves us. The result? A radically more authentic, more liberated, sex life. As an inclusive dating coach, Errin is no stranger to shame, and she's heard it all from her clients.

Whether it was that one rude thing a partner said that haunted you for years, or a parent that told you masturbation was dirty, shame loves to hide in the shadows, and hold you back in the bedroom. So on today's show, Erin and I talk about how we healed our own sexual shame, dropped performative sex, and got comfortable with the word no. You'll also learn the difference between no and not yet when it comes to dating, how to make good choices on dating apps, and how to flip your internal shame script. All right, intentions with Emily for each episode I want to start off by setting an intention

for the show. I do it. I encourage you to do the same. So when you're listening, what do you want to get out of this episode? My intention is to help you see shame, like really, really see it so you can heal it. Shame thrives in secrecy, but once we shed light on it, it starts to dissolve, and that leads to a more liberated, sex life. Please rate and review Sex with Emily wherever you listen to the show.

My new article, Overcoming 4 Common Sex Fures, is up at sexwithemily.com. Also check out my YouTube channel for more sex tips and advice. If you want to ask me more questions, leave me your questions or message me at sexwithemily.com slash ask Emily or call my hotline 559 talk sex or 559 825 5739. Always include your name your age where you live and how you listen to the show and totally cool to change your name if you wanna remain anonymous. All right, everyone, enjoy this episode. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪

Shame. The feeling is painful and it's powerful. Shame stems from a belief that you have failed or you're inadequate in some way. In a lot of cases or most cases, it's a result of trauma or like a narrative that's just playing in your head that was used to control your actions

or set up as an almost unattainable idea of perfection. Now, the reactions to shame are just as varied as the causes. In some cases, what we do is we'll hide, we withdraw, we keep things that feel shameful, super secretive. In other cases, we channel this energy and it's like anger and we get mad because we think like, I'm angry and I deserve this,

or we might even turn into a sexual desire. And we actually find some kind of pleasure in replaying a trauma by being shamed. Why is this my sexual desire and it's part of my shame? Look, it's skin all get wrapped up in so many things. But thing is, in most cases, the results can be a strained relationship with ourselves and with our loved ones. And while it serves us to have healthy boundaries, beliefs, and values, the most common repercussion of a strict controlling or religious background

is that we somehow fall short. And then we find ourselves in this same loop. We feel humiliated and well ashamed that we can't meet these expectations and that just becomes a vicious cycle. So truly, the healthiest thing we can do for ourselves is create realistic expectations, reset our beliefs once we understand what they are and where they came from, our beliefs

about sex, about everything, really, and allow ourselves to be human, like we're human, and we are not perfect. Nobody's perfect. And forgive what we might have been taught as wrong or sinful. We might even remember when we were taught it, like maybe we were children and we're still carrying it around. Cause this dialogue can be religious or cultural or maybe in porn you saw something, you're like, well, I don't look that way. And it could just be a one time thing. I hear this all the time.

Or one part of your shame, do. And then you're carrying it around forever until you release it today. That's what we're doing. We have to remember that we can reprogram these beliefs. We must. There is a way to move through the shame and it's okay to practice self-love. In fact, this is what's going to cure us all. It's self-love and empathy. In fact, the antidote to shame is actually empathy and self-love. But also self-love, you know, the kind of self-love I'm talking

about, touching ourselves. All of that is okay. That's how we learn to love ourselves. And that's how we learn to have a healthy relationship with sex, with our bodies, and with others. Let me tell you about my experience with shame. First off, I think we're never really done peeling back the layers of understanding ourselves and of shame. When I look back at my relationships early on, like let's say the relationships in my 20s,

when I think about shame, I think I could have had such a healthier relationship. If I was able to actually be honest with my partners at the time, and I knew all the things I know about communication, all the things that I tell all of you, I would feel like, wow, you know what? The sex is getting kind of boring.

I'm not really into it. And so what I would do is I would blame myself. I would think that it was my fault. The sex was bad because I couldn't masturbate with a partner. I think, well, maybe they don't like me. And if I bring it up, it's probably my fault. My thing is I blame myself for a lot of things. Like, I have a very negative self-tape

that plays in my head, which is just filled with shame. It's just shame, shame, shame. And so I think that I was so afraid to confront the problems in a relationship and afraid would apart, I would say that I just, it's like everything's fine, everything's good. I'll fake orgasms and I'll just be the perfect lover, whatever that means and the perfect no pressure girlfriend.

But truly, that wasn't doing anybody a service. I could have said, listen, I'm having insecurities right now, or actually can't orgasm. And then I would have been able to figure out how to do it at a much earlier time in my life. The most common themes that I've seen with shame from all my listeners is that somehow it's just wrong to desire sex.

And to even talk about sex is wrong. It's taboo. We're gonna be blamed for it. Other people aren't gonna like us. That sex is just wrong across the board. And masturbation is evil and wrong. And we're gonna go to hell. And we shouldn't have to masturbate

if we're in a relationship or the common theme's religion. You grew up in a home where you were programmed that sex in any other way besides procreation is wrong or evil. And so as a result of that, a lot of you could probably relate to what I'm saying right now. You might be in a relationship right now where you're thinking, yeah, we've never talked about it before. We won't talk about sex. It's and I think that now that you see and you've been listening to sex with Emily or even if this is your first time,

you might be realizing now that that's actually the only way you're going to get through the shame. And you're going to get to the other side of it which is actually having a healthy sexual relationship, it's actually talk about it and to say I know that maybe we've never done this before and I know this might be weird and we might even both have beliefs that it's not okay to talk about sex, but I think we can agree that we both want to be great lovers to each other or you maybe want to be a great lover to yourself. So it's a great time to start and think what kind of conversations can I be having today to break through my shame spiral? I'm shameful in certain relationships

where I've had to be more vulnerable now, like in people that I'm dating, I realize that in a lot of ways I was still holding my heart back. And in some ways I realize the more open I am with that, I'm gonna get hurt and not everyone's gonna love me and I'm gonna get rejected. And not everyone's going to love me and I'm going to get rejected. And what I've had to learn is being real and vulnerable about what we want is actually

the greatest act of self love. And if someone is going to reject me and they're not going to accept me for that, I have to first say that's okay and love myself because I was doing a great act of self care by asking for it. But also they're sending you a message that they just might not be the right person for me. The first step in flipping the shame script is just to write it down. Write down what those things are, those things you think you cannot say. And then infuse that, replace that with some empathy, some self love. So it's not keeping us in our shame's pile. And this way, we can

move forward with love. and this way we can move forward with love. Erin Tillman's CSE is a Certified Insumusee Coordinator, Sex Educator, Inclusive Data and Consent Empowerment Coach, author of the Consent Guidebook and Media Personality based in Los Angeles. She is the Executive Director of Sex Positive Los Angeles. And for over 10 years has been dedicated to making conversations around consent, identity, and allyship, less taboo, and more easily digestible.

Find Aaron on Twitter at Dating Advice Girl, Instagram at Miss Aaron Tillman, and at our website, errantillman.com. How did you become the dating advice girl? So everything started pre-tender, pre-YouTube, pre-Instagram, like pre-all these things, which I'm totally dating myself here, like dating myself.

But yeah, so I basically started a blog at the time it was very binary. Why are there so many double standards between men and women? Guys can have sex and girls can't, and girls get shame for it and guys don't. It was very binary. Long story short, at that time, it kind of struck a nerve with people. And for some reason, at the time, there weren't many female voices talking about those differences.

Which led to me writing it for a column, which led to me speaking at colleges around dating safety. Once the app scene hit, then I started to really nerd out, because I was single. So many waves and ebbs and flows and relationships, I've been in the field quite a bit, I should say. So you've been dating, not dating, probably in relation to the other relationships.

So right now, what's the status today, Aaron Tillman? What's happening today? Yes, yes, yes, yes. So I'm in a beautiful, beautiful relationship actually. I'm actually a weird success story, not weird. Because you know, a lot of people are like, oh, online dating sets are dating apps suck. But so I met my partner on Tinder.

It's a beautiful relationship that was unexpected. He's a trans man. My whole life, I'm 40 years old and my whole life, I only dated sister and her men. Although my friends would say that he's very much on brand with like all the guys I dated before, because he looks similar. His like, his everything's very similar to a lot of my guys,

because I liked a more feminine man. Anyway, all that to say, right? Love is love. And we met and that's a whole other podcast actually our whole like how we, like, you know, first date and all the unknowns. Yeah. I have had I have trans people in my life and I have non-binary people in my life and all these categories. But to date somebody that you've never dated before is a different experience for

sure, but he's a bit of an activist, he's a director producer, he's so forgiving if I don't know all the terms, he's so supportive and it's beautiful. Love is love. I agree. I got to think it's what you're attracted to, how wonderful you can be open. And so dating a trans man, can you just explain that to us? Totally. The correct term, I should let me go back.

I said trans man. Transmasculine is more accurate. He doesn't consider himself a man. He is someone who's always been masculine of center. So, you know, for, I know, I love you. Let's break it down. Let's break it down. Layman's for us. Just because I got it. Thank you. So my boyfriend was assigned female at birth. Thank you. So my boyfriend was assigned female at birth, assigned that gender at birth. Okay. A Fab is another term for that. My boyfriend and so many people like him have not felt that gender that they were assigned.

So you know the thing is, I mean I think at this point, 2020, I think we all know people who just were not what the stereotype is of the gender that they were assigned, right? Someone who was maybe a female person who was more masculine or a male person who was more feminine and all these things. And so I just feel like in the last several years, we'll say less like five, let's be honest, last five years maybe around the last few years, people have really been able to embrace who they really are. I think so too.

Right, and just like this is who we are, this is who I am, it's been an interesting process for myself too, just going back real quick, even though my boyfriend, his name is Jet. I like it. He presented masculine, he went through the transition process a few years ago. And so even for him

It's been an eye opening experience for me dating him. I mean, there's definitely been especially initially even though again I've dated people who are he's very similar to in a lot of ways like if you were to like lying him up with My exes they all look alike a lot of ways But all that to say, there are questions that come up around, what does this mean about me? Does this mean that I'm someone I didn't expect to be, who I thought I was, am I not that person anymore? You know, am I gay, am I this, am I that?

And so, I mean, I don't like to claim categories. I guess some people could put me in certain categories, but also weirdly a lot of my queer and gay friends are like, no, you're totally a straight couple still, because I'm femme and he's masculine. Anyway, I don't know. I get a bit masculine feminine. And also, I feel like, why do we have to?

What do you know what I mean? Right now, it means we're right now, and you're in love, and you're in a good relationship. So why does it matter? As a matter of where I'm at, you were just on Tinder looking for some of you were attracted to, and that's what you found. And it's cool back to that real quick. Yeah.

Thank you for saying that. Like, right before that, I had gotten out of a really weird relationship and it really bizarrely. And I was like, you know, as a dating coach, right? It would be, it would be bad. If I didn't do some self reflection. And so I was like, you know, what are my patterns? If I'm dating a similar type of person in terms of personality and I'm not liking it,

what am I doing wrong and what can I do to change it? So I really took a hard look at myself and I'm like, you know what? I really just want to meet new people who are aligned with what I, who I am and what I'm interested in and what kind of fun I want to have. And so I went on Tinder mainly to meet new humans. I switched it to men and women. So ordinarily he wouldn't have popped up because he was in the category of non-binary trans something other than a cisgender,

a sign female at birth feels that way. Like I was born a girl, feel like a woman, because I switched it to something more than that, Jack popped up. And so I was open to that. Now, not everyone is, and that's not everyone's orientation. I mean, some would argue that I've always been some form of queer, maybe a little bit gay.

I just never met someone that I wanted to date. I mean, there's a whole argument there. And I'm not suggesting that someone go against their orientation. What I love that you just said is, and this is the advice that I think is such great advice is that when you go through a breakup, rather than rushing out there to try to like,

heal your wounds so you don't have to feel and you don't have to learn anything and start just dating or get under to get over all the things that we do, you actually did the work. Stopping and saying, what can I learn from this? Like, hold up, there's a pattern. Maybe my picker's broken. I'm repeating, repeating the same cycle. And by even checking that box or like moving the bar over and saying, I'm open was what brought you the person that you're in love with right now. And so just real quick though about the work, like what did your process look like

after your last relationship to that brought you to where you are now in a healthy relationship? Yeah, yeah, great question. So it basically got to a point where I was just tired of the pattern I was in. For my clients that I coach, that's the point they have to reach.

Like I can, just like you, like we give our clients tips and advice. If they're not ready to get to that place, then there's nothing we can say, right? We can give a nudge, we can give, okay, you'll hear some steps, but if someone's really not ready to take some sort of new leap

or try something new to break a pattern, then there's no way we can help them. So I just hit a place where I was like, I am not happy with what I've been choosing. And a lot of it is a choice. Choosing meaning, I don't mean that in the shaming way and I don't mean it in terms of a sort of violence or aggression.

You don't choose that. What I'm saying is, sometimes we see a pattern or we see a certain type person that we're attracted to and we'll maybe ignore certain other things, we make a choice there. Also, a lot of the apps have a premium service that's either you pay weekly or monthly that basically can cut your time in half. So I'm not endorsed by any dating sites, so I do consult with some of them sometimes. So I'll just use tinder as an example They actually they have an option. I think bumble has it too, but you pay per week to see who's already swiped for you So that cut your time in half. It's also a huge ego boost to go on the app open it up and see who's already

Selected you and then you can go through and be like, oh, these are the people that I'm cute. Yeah, amazing. Yeah. Of these people might be interested in. It makes it so that you're not just endlessly swiping your life away and just feeling like, oh my god, I hate this. Right. That is a great advice, too, because I think, yeah, if they're new to the dating game, they

can also check out your site, your information, because you give a lot of tips about this as well, about dating. Because I want to get into our topic, because today I wanna talk about shame. I wanna do a deep dive into shame with you. And I wanna know like, how have you dealt with shame in your life? And like, first of all, how would you even define shame?

Let's start with that. Whew, so what does shame mean to you? Yes, so shame to me is a feeling around not being able to live the way you want because of judgment or someone's, someone putting a feeling on you or something that's been ingrained on you that makes you feel that you're wrong or that you're gross

or that you're not enough, that's shame. For me, that's my definition of shame. In my life, I've been very lucky in the sense that, you know, I have a loving family, especially my mother, you know, I've always felt supported by her emotionally. And I like to be a straight, sure, like, honest. I've really tried to, I've had the luxury of not having to feel too much shame in my life.

Having said that, having said that, I just started talking about, we started this by talking about my trans boyfriend. And there is so much that comes up, not in the shame, you weigh. I'm so proud of them. And if you see us on social media, we're always posting, we're real goofy together.

So we're always posting a bunch of stuff videos and photos and stuff. But there are moments where there are people who've known me my whole life, certain family members as well, like cousins and things, that there's a feeling that comes up of what are they gonna think now?

Do they think that I, like I am not their equal now or is there some judgment they have about me? And so it's not, I guess it's not in the shame realm, it's adjacent to shame, the feeling that is driving. I was just wondering because it just keeps coming. I feel like it's like sneaky. Like shame is so sneaky, like you don't even realize it.

And you look around. And you're like, oh, that's why I'm not telling one. And then more you reveal it, you're like, oh, like that's where the light comes in. Like our darkness is like our secrets, right? And then you reveal it, like I'm so shameful and then it comes out. So I've just,

what into your point growing up, I'm so shameful and then it comes out. So I've just went into your point, growing up, I grew up in a small town in Ohio. And you know, it was very homogenous. It's a very homogenous place, I grew up southern Ohio. And so like you said, it's ingrained to see how your gay friends are treated in school, and junior high or in high school.

Or, you know, I was the only black girl in my grade. And then I think in my school, there were like, like, five of us maybe. And I remember when, like, there was this new black boy that, like, moved to our school and everyone's like, you should date him. And I'm like,

let's just look at that. Exactly. Right. I'm from Michigan. So I get the like upbringing small time. Yeah, it's just so homogenous, which is why I end up in Los Angeles. After the break, more with Erin Tillman. I want to hear what other work you've been doing. I know you've been doing a lot of work around consent as well.

You wrote a book on consent. So let's talk about what it is and what inspired you to delve deeper into it, which I think is we need this right now. To boil it down really simply because I know I feel like there are a lot of people who are like, oh my gosh, consent. It's overwhelming and it takes the sexiness out of it. So consent is basically checking in to see that you're on the same page. And layman's terms, that's the basis for what it is.

Are we both in agreement that we both want this thing to happen now? It can be overwhelming if we overthink it. Really the basis is someone enthusiastic about what they're going to do with you. Are you in agreement? Are you both enthusiastic about what is being proposed? Okay, that's the basis for it, okay? And I don't wanna say, I don't wanna minimize

the anxiety around all of that, especially if someone's newly single. If there's a scenario where you're proposing something or somebody's like, I don't know, or like if there's any sort of hesitation in that person, the new normal is no. Hesitation equals no. Yes. Which is fine. I love it.

It's about getting, yeah, it's true. It's really about getting to know the person, taking the time to understand like what someone's likes and dislikes are, you know, in my book, we're talking about this. Yes, no, maybe, Liz, which is once you, you know, get to know the person, there's certain things you can discuss in terms of sex and intimacy. Oh, do you like to be kissed on the cheek? Yes, no, or maybe? Do you like to be kissed on the mouth? Yes, no, or do you like to be touched in the genital areas? Yes, no, maybe. Do you like, you know, spanked, whatever. And then you find where your yes is. Yeah, I love that. I love trails. And there's a way to make those fun too. It doesn't have to be so clinical because I think part of the nervousness around this is that we've made the topic very serious.

The Me Too movement happened, you know, a couple years ago, the height of it. The Me Too movement, that's when I wrote my book. That's what inspired me to write my book, although I've been, again, a dating coach at that time for 10 years, and I've been talking about consent a little, that definitely heightened it. Even though the Me Too movement was started more about workplace, harassment and things. I mean, I was like as a digging coach, I never talked about consent. You have to and I want to go back to one thing you say because I think this is like the crucial moment is that not only if someone else is enthusiastic but getting to know

our nose, like I feel like as a people pleaser and I'd like to say I'm a reformed people pleaser but I'm not there yet. I still am in many ways just with everybody and so to even know am I saying yes because I want to be liked like is it really a yes or is it a hell yes? And if it's not a hell yes, well then it's a no. Going from there thinking okay well if I don't actually want to let's say I just met this person we've been chatting online and now we've got a FaceTime date tonight And do I want to get naked with this person? That is definitely we have to be hell yes and then be attentive somebody's like, are you sure come on like I'm not gonna see you for two months Think about it take a pause and say am I doing this because I want to be like because the other thing

What's confusing the next layer of that is being able to say no? But then like because I think what we do is we either think it's a hell yes or it's a nope, I can't, no, I don't want to do it. But then to be able to say no, not right now or right now, I'm feeling it's a no tonight isn't no, but I'm loving getting to know you right now. So you're still letting that person know that this isn't a no forever. I mean, we don't know yet, but no, and it doesn't have to end in this moment. We can still find their common ground.

Now, if that person can't take that, I always say, if they're like, well, fine, then I'm out. Well, good. They're doing your favor. Then let them go find somebody else who's ready to go along with their plan. And I had to learn that. It's just so mad experience to like, for me, like an embodied experience learning to figure out, like, where is my, yes, if I'm feeling and know, like, maybe my chest is

getting tight. My stomach is like, I'm uncomfortable. Like, it took me so long from somebody also who's been sort of was shut down and to learn to open up. Like where am I feeling things in my body? That's like a more practice as well. It's really important too that we are okay hearing no. On the other end of that. Yes. Listen, I think first of all as Americans, we don't like no. Okay. Which is not okay. That's a conditioning thing in our society. I don't like no, okay, which is not okay. That's a conditioning thing in our society.

I don't like it, but it is a thing. I think everybody, most people I know, they hear the word no and it's like, ah, like that stings a little bit. We have to be okay hearing no sometimes as well. And we have to reframe no as, okay, maybe this person, like again, if we're getting a soft no, some somebody that means they're not enthusiastic right now, but if maybe this person, like again, if we're getting a soft note, some somebody, that means they're not enthusiastic right now.

But if they're showing, they're saying to you, oh, you know, I, just not this moment for them interested at some point, take that no gracefully, it's really important to take that no gracefully. That person is being honest, they're telling you, why would you want someone to lie to you? Right, exactly.

Just be like, yeah, yeah, and fine, and then something really bad happens, right? They're being, they're showing you that, oh my gosh, like, I'm not quite ready. I respect you enough to tell you the truth about myself right now. And I think that there's maybe some sort of future here. So right now it's a no.

But oh, okay, I'm gonna listen, I'm gonna, I like this person, I'm gonna, they're not a no. They're a no right now, but I'm gonna take that no. And hope for the, hope for the rest. Yeah, you're absolutely right, because we're so afraid that if someone says no to us, something's wrong with us, like, so we push it because I can't take note

because I'm being rejected and that's painful that I'm not loved or you're banning me, like, I'm not accepted. And then a lot of times we're not okay saying no because we wanted to be pleasers and we're so afraid to say around sex, I feel like there is a lot of shame around that. Like, as women were told, at least I was raised that all in a very, you know,

heteroshocks or heteronormative world that that with men that sex was about pleasing men, it was about what they wanted and and everything I did was about their pleasure. How do I look sexy? How do I perform about, you know, it wasn't about what I wanted ever. I I had to learn that through the process of, you know, do probably do my work. Who knows if I would, you know, people are still learning this every day. But what it's almost like we have shame too. Women, it's sort of a shaped tied into shame too. Like I didn't perform or I wasn't a great lover. So the more I say yes to somebody, then I don't have to deal with my own, like shame

or my own insecurity is around not being enough. I mean, do you feel like I hear that, but then the flip side of that is you say, yes, we you're not ready. And then there's some all whole bunch of other right. You have to deal. Yeah. But no, I feel you. I mean, I think we're all we're a lot again, let's bring it back to women right now. So much shame around sexuality, women's sexuality. there's like this heightened, heightened, a performative sexuality that's okay, and porn and things which I am not anti-porn and I'm actually friends with a few sex workers and people in the

realm. And then there's this other side that's like no no, don't be sexual, don't be sexy, don't wear anything because if you wear something that's sexy then something bad could happen to you. You ask for it. You ask for it. Shame around those things, right? So then no wonder, no wonder we have so much thing because if you wear something that's sexy then something bad could happen to you as for it. You ask for it. You ask for it. You ask for it. You ask for it. You ask for it.

You ask for it. You ask for it. You ask for it. You ask for it. You ask for it. You ask for it. You ask for it. You ask for it.

You ask for it. You ask for it. You ask for it. You ask for it. You ask for it. You ask for it. You ask for it. You ask for it. You ask for it. You ask for it. You ask for it. You ask for it. been getting about, oh, you're a bad girl or you're a bad person if you want that thing

or that's dirty. We don't know body part names. Exactly. We don't look at ourselves. Half of us haven't had like adequate sex ed at all. You know, there's so many layers. Yeah. So I'm curious to how do you do with that right now because what's been so shocking is

sounding to me is after working as a sex educator for 15 years and then leaving Michigan 30 years ago and then having a nice and coming up who's like 19 and was my intern last summer and I thought she came out from Michigan and I thought oh it's different just sure enough. Teach me about low jobs, teach you out this and that she didn't know about orgasm, she didn't know because it's the first time she actually tuned in, there still is that performance thing. So what I'm assuming is a lot of your clients right now

as well, you probably self-adieu with them saying, like, just feeling that they have to be pleasers or that it's wrong or they're not going to be likable if they don't perform. So how do you break that? I know people have to be ready for the message but how do you work with people on that as well? Yeah, yeah, I mean, again, the main Point here is self-development. So, you know, I officially call myself a dating empowerment coach

The point is to empower my clients to feel better and more confident, right? So whatever that means for them whether it's just to put themselves out there digitally on dating sites Whether that's sexually all the things it does take some self-work I do feel like you you know, there are, there's so many, you know, like yourself and other sex ed colleagues of mine who have so many amazing like exercises. Some that are like, look at sin front of a mirror.

Like open yourself to the world. Can't do it. And like, and look at your body parts and love your body parts. And, you know, it's almost like a re-education of what our bodies are and loving your body and what it looks like on social media. You'll see pictures of vulvas,

like floating around and how different they all go. I love that. And I feel like I first saw the variety of vulvas, like maybe the last five years of my life. The vulva gallery, I think that's one that I follow on Instagram. And I'm always like, oh, the vulva gallery. Yeah, because you're like, I didn't know there was that many. They're all different.

They're like snowflakes, but we are so shame. Walk around feeling like we are somehow broken because you've seen this too, because we've been in this same amount of time in the sense of like porn. I don't think there was as much vulgar shame 15 years ago before porn became as there was other shame. But now they're like, oh, now my vagina's broken,

now my vulgar is not right. Now I've seen them and porn, you know? Yeah, because they're cheating here and not here and like, you know, all these things. Yes, yeah. So just accepting of that. And like, that's where, you know, first of all, there all versus self part of it

And second part is partner selection. I think it's really important that when you're choosing partners and intimate partners and you know life partners It's really important that you choose people who aren't gonna make you feel bad about how your body looks How your body smells I mean listen I I have some stories around that kind of stuff where it's like body chemistry and like smell like odor chemistry is a real thing. And you know, I remember I said to a partner once way back. I was like, I don't think I think there's something you don't like about me. And he was like, I gotta be honest, I don't like the way you smell. And I was like, you know what? Like, and this was like, he even said, he's like even coming out of a shower.

He's like, this is just something, and I was like, you know, so hurt, that's a year. It's so hurtful to hear, but I was like, you know what? I'm so glad, I mean, listen, we can tell, like intuition or like, you can, I'm very intuitive, but also you can tell someone's not really into you. I was like, I know he's not,

so I'm like, just tell me what the deal is. I'm so glad he told me, because I cannot imagine spending years and years and years. And again, for everyone listening, that person's doing you a blessing. The person that says goodbye to you or breaks up with you or says, you're this or you're that, thank goodness,

because what kind of life would that be? To be with somebody who's either half enthusiastic, know it, not enthusiastic, or just think she's gross, or what, it's just not fair to that person, and it's not fair to you. These are from my listeners. I'm thinking I'd love to get your advice, help me answer some of these questions.

We asked some questions. People had things around shame. They had questions for us. Angela says, people's reactions to hearing about how many will you slip with can cause shame. And the gender equality here is a huge issue for lots of women. Their body count is supposed to be low. Well for many, though not all, men, it doesn't matter as much. What are your thoughts on this?

Literally, this is how I started my career. I love it. Do you know what it is? It's like that's my blog. Here's the thing, again, first of all, I don't know if, is anyone's business how many people you've slept with for one? Nope. I don't know if that's relevant. I guess if somebody asked you,

I don't know, there's so many people who say, just lie about it. I don't like to lie about that stuff, but also I just feel like if it's gonna, if someone's asking you, first of like, what's the context that they're asking you? Because there is a double standard. Because we got to be real about it, right? There is a double standard with this. And someone might judge you. I feel like my instinct wants to say that anyone who's going to judge you for it isn't someone you should be

dating anyway. But again, I just don't necessarily feel it's that it's anyone's business because we are realistically in a judgmental society. I agree. The reason why we are asking, usually what people ask, is because we want to know where we measure up. So do you have more experience in me? Do you have less experience? So I have to step it up.

And all I want to say there is is that, first off, you could have slept with hundreds and hundreds of people. And I will tell you from experience, I have some of people like, oh, he's been with so many people and he is not the best lovers. So just because you've been with so many people does not mean you are a great lover. You might just be hitting and quitting all over town all day long, but that does not mean that you know what the hell you're doing.

That's one thing. And the other, right, it's so true. I'm like, astounding. Maybe you should slow down and pick one. And in fact, I've had's so true. I'm like, astounding. Maybe you should just slow down and pick one. And in fact, I've had some wonderful lovers who have been, who were married for 10 years and they came out of a relationship with their two people maybe. And it was beautiful because they knew how to pay attention.

They knew how to be communicated around sex. That's how you became a great lover. It's not by a bunch of skills and not getting a lot of naches on the bedpost. It's about learning to communicate and be present. The other thing I say when someone asks you that, and I feel like it's kind of a younger person's thing, maybe more in your 20s you're asking,

although it still comes up, I just say, you know what, right now, I'm focused on the sex that we're having, and it's awesome. So how can we, like, this is the only sex I'm remembering right now was a sex that we're having. No, that's perfect, yeah.

It's literally where I say, like, shut them down, shut them down because you are just using it, and the standards we're having. No, that's a perfect answer. Literally what I say, like, shut them down. Shut them down because you are just using it. And the standards we're basing on is not anything that's actually real evidence. So it means anything anyway, because usually it's the shame. Completely. Okay, so we've got another one here.

So this is from Lillani. And she says, growing up Asian American and Catholic, the shame game is real. Sheryl and broke growing up in a Christian household, being told sex was only meant to be shared with one person. So there's so many more people who are programming from religious or cultural belief systems that they desperately wanna break.

I hear this day in and out. So how do you advise people? Like what are your thoughts? How do you grow and create new beliefs for yourself in order to move beyond the shame that is created by religion? And this is something that, oh God, it's so tough. What do you do with people dealing with this shame about?

Because all the time people are like, oh, I can't masturbate or I can't do this because it's wrong in religion. How do you help people look at that? It's like the age old question. I mean, seriously, it's really awful and I'm really sad about it. And I feel like so many things in my life

have gone against what it is to be a Christian or a good Christian. So, or, you know, in certain, whatever the religious path is, I do feel like, again, back to shame, there's so much shame there. We're so lucky in Los Angeles. There's a lot of very inclusive religious institutions or like Christian churches and things here that are

more inclusive and like accept gay people not accept but you know it's like yeah or welcome I feel like if there's a way to find your spiritual community yeah that is more inclusive in those ways that's gonna be helpful because even though it feels like and trust me again, again, growing up in Smalta, Ohio, it does feel like all insert religious repeal are like this. And it's not true. The challenge is to find other people

who are more accepting within your religion or within your spiritual practice. Because there are people who aren't just like, oh, shutting you down or making you feel bad about these things. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, that's the best answer I've ever been to. No, that's awesome.

It's so good to try. Find your people, which is like, yeah, and you may have to leave your town. Like we did. And it's just the knowing of saying, okay, you know what? I feel right now, like something in me feels wrong about what you say. Like, I think it's wrong to touch myself because of I was told that it was wrong and if I have a partner I shouldn't need to masturbate. What do I do with that?

I'm like, okay, well, take a moment. Is that sitting with you? Maybe think, okay, where did I first hear that? Oh, it was church. Does it still serve me? Do I believe that or did someone else believe that? But now I'm a 30 year old woman or I'm a 40 year old man. I get to choose

if it still serves me. It doesn't still, it's still who I am. And you got to like separate that and that takes some work even realizing because then it's words on autopilot, like masturbation's wrong, sleeping before marriage is sex is wrong. And if I don't, if I have to initiate, I'm a slut or whatever the things that you believe and then you go, Oh, is that true still? And then it's a checking it and then finding your people. Okay, Aaron, thank you so much for your time.

This is awesome. I love talking to you. We could do this for hours. I have to ask you the five quicky questions we ask all of our guests. Ready? Excellent. All right, Erin, what is your biggest turn on?

Biggest turn on is, well, I'm gonna go five level languages and say acts of service. Okay. Biggest turn off. I'm going to go five level languages and say acts of service. Biggest turn off. Rude, Rude, jerky people. What makes good sex? Taking things slow and really being present with your partner. Something you tell your younger self about sex and relationships.

Or one thing. Yeah. But porn is entertainment and there's no one way to do it. Love it. Number one sex tip. Be present and be consensual. I love it. Thank you so much, Aaron, for being here. That's it for today's episode. See you on Tuesday. Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. Be sure to like, subscribe, and give us a review wherever you listen to the podcast and share this with a friend or partner.

You can find me on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at Sex with Emily. Oh, I've been told I give really good email. So sign up at sexwithemily.com and while you're there, check out my free guides and articles for more ways to prioritize your pleasure. If you'd like to ask me about your sex life, dating or relationships, call my hotline 559 Talk Sex. That's 559-825-5739. Go to sexwithemily.com-ask-emily.

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