Sex With Emily - Break Up With Cheating

Episode Date: December 2, 2020

We all know someone who’s cheated or we’ve cheated ourselves but why do we do it? Is it really about sex or are there other things at play? Therapist and psychological astrologer, Dr. Jennifer Freed, and I discuss the ways we experience betrayal and how to move past it.Listen to learn how to break the habit of dating the wrong people and avoiding those pesky attachment issues.Trigger warning: This episode references sexual abuse.For more information about Jen Freed, visit: jenniferfreed.comFor even more sex advice, tips, and tricks visit sexwithemily.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What happens is we postpone all these conversations till they're not only walking on eggshells, they're walking on minefields. And what we really should do is have a check-in once a week about what's unfinished, what's not communicated, so it's not like some big bomb you're dropping. Look into his eyes. They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex. Eyes that block our sacred institutions. Betrubize they call them in a fight on days. You're listening to Sex with Emily.

I'm Dr. Emily and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around sex. Today's episode, we hear from listeners dealing with varying degrees of deception in their relationship. Do you know that about 40% of unmarried couples in 25% of marriages see at least one incident of infidelity. Really? This is true. 70 percent of all Americans will cheat at some point. So what do we do about it? Right? And I know you might not want to hear this, but even if we are repeatedly cheated on by partners, I hear a lot of you email or call and say, oh, well, my last four partners cheated on me. Well, guess what the common denominator is here.

It's you. So we're gonna help you recognize some signs. Later on in the episode I'm joined by Dr. Jennifer Fried, renowned psychological astrologer, and we dissect what the why in people cheat. And I'm gonna give you a hint, it's not about the sex. We talk about other ways people betray their partners and how to just avoid it in your

relationship. And that take your calls, answer your questions. And if you want to ask me about sex or dating of relationships, call my show Monday through Friday, 5 to 7 pm. And that number, right, this down, it's 5 to 7 pm. Pacific is triple eight, nine, four 8277. All right, intentions with Emily. For each episode, let's set an intention together. I do it. I encourage you to do the same. So when you're listening, what do you want to get out of this episode? Maybe it's, I'm

a cheater and I want to find out how to stop cheating. Well, my intention is to help you recognize the signs, to spell all the myths about cheating, and show you how you could stop the cycle and repair your relationship. And our first call today is Bertha. She really sets the tone for the episode. All right, enjoy the show.

Let's talk to Bertha, 50 in California. Hey, Bertha, what's going on? It's like what has been going on. It's like a soap opera. Oh, tell me. Anyway, I met this guy. He lived across the street from me at the time. And my dog had gotten attacked.

And he seemed nice. He was like a mailman and he told me he was on vacation. So he'd help me take care of my dogs and he got attacked and he needed care and I had to work and I didn't have vacation left. So I thought, oh he's so sweet and so then he tells me, oh he's in the process of getting divorced and he's been living without her for two years. So I started seeing him because he lived across the street. It was convenient and I thought he was nice.

And I believed all his stories. But anyway, so I called the doctor Laura a show and she told me to run because he still vested in his other relationship. And I didn't listen because I was going through health issues and he was like comfort, at least someone that lived right across the street. If I felt sick or something like that. Anyway, four and a half years later, apparently he's been seeing his ex this whole time. I don't think he ever got divorced.

He has never really told me the truth about that. But so I went to church because the kids were going to be busy once Sunday, like a few weeks ago. And he's sitting there with this lady and I don't recognize her at the beginning, but then I realized his act. And I go, I was like, I need to face this because every time I mention something's off to him, he's always says it's in my head and I'm paranoid and blah blah blah.

And so I went up to him and I said, oh, I think we need to talk and I rubbed on his shoulder. And she didn't even look at me and he acted like he didn't even know me. It was like crazy. And the look on his face was just it's not even that he was with him. It's just the look on his face like he didn't want to acknowledge me kind of look. Wow. It broke my heart instantly. I felt sick. But I still went into the church. I was wearing my mask. So there was nobody sitting next to her and him. So I walked up to where they were sitting and I told, I said out loud. In front of everyone, I said, maybe we should sit together since we're all sleeping together.

And you go, Martha. And he said, he acted like, he acted like, he didn't even respond. She's a one that said, oh, we're co-workers. And then I figured it out that that's his ex, because I never really met her up close. She's always just driving by, and she had tinted windows. But he made up a story about why he was with her. Oh, I'm just comforting her because her sister passed away or something, which is true because right afterward she started spending the night and then he's still

trying to get me to be with him. I don't get it. Wow. And he's like master manipulator of his sense like it. Yes, yes. Wow, Perth, when did this happen? I can't even believe it. Like two weeks ago. OK, yeah. Wow, Perth, so for four and a half years, were you guys committed? I thought we were. Well, I thought we were.

He would sense at the beginning, he would spend a lot of time with me. And then I was looking on YouTube and seeing that that's what narcissists do. They he's a narcissist and apparently I'm an empath and I could offend it. Yeah, that's what they do. They they they really try to make you feel safe and they court you, but then everything's confusing and they he gaslights you. So by saying you're wrong or that didn't happen or you didn't see it. I'm so sorry.

I'm so sorry. I have to see him all the time. Ah, even I can't like every time I try to break up with him, it's been like 70 times. I went to my house and he goes and apologizes and makes me feel bad like I feel tea, you know. Wow. Yeah, this is really, really unhealthy. Oh my God, I would do everything you can just to cut him, to cut contact. I would block his number.

I would just... I tried. We live on the same street. Yeah, but you could still block his number. I know you see him, but I would block him. I would get people in place to kind of help you avoid being with him, make sure that you have plans and that you're keeping busy and stuff. And it is very, I mean, this is such a, you know, I'm sure you're learning a lot, you're

still in the process, it just happened two weeks ago, but you kind of knew, right? We always know. And then we like, why did I listen? Because it felt so good. I think I had a feeling like, you know, like the first 60 seconds, how you have a feeling about people like, oh, he's an asshole. Oh, he's a jerk. Oh, he's, you know,

no kind of feeling. And like the first 60 seconds, that's what I thought, but I didn't really listen to it because I was going through stuff. So I thought it would be better to have somebody around. Yeah, I understand that, but then it just wasn't serving you. So then it was more like you, yeah, a neighbor, it's easy and all that. So I feel like, you know, the important thing now to do is just to distance yourself as much as you can and try to learn what it was about this at first and allow you to trust yourself. What about your past relationships? Was there anything like this in your past? My past, I never really had serious relationships where I dated someone for a long time.

I would just meet someone and it's like I would fall in love and get married. I never really get dated. Well, this is what, this is your new lesson right now, right? I think that you move really quick and not trusting your gut. I think things have to happen enough times to us where we finally learn our lessons and it sounds like you're ready now. I also think therapy would be great for you because there might be a day of raising your life. I have a way to therapy with him.

He went with me to a therapist because he was saying that I was the one paranoid one and the jealous one and everything was in my head. So I was like maybe I was the one paranoid one and the jealous one and everything was in my head. So I was like, maybe I should go to therapy and I went to a therapist and she told me I should take cognitive classes. And he, the whole time we were there, he didn't say a word, he was just listening. Well, because he's a master manipulator, because this is what he does. He's really good at manip, he's been doing this his whole life. Maybe he did it with his mother or siblings

to get his way. It was an adaptive personality trait. And there's something in that for you too that's probably familiar from your childhood too that people weren't. People told you you couldn't trust your reality. I was like the second oldest out of eight and I was like the mother to my brothers and sisters. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm sure that there's a lot there, you know, so I'm really sorry this happened, Bertha. I really hope that you can now find a therapist and like stick to, you know, go every week and just make a commitment to yourself that you're going to make better decisions for people.

But in therapy and they make the same like it's me. I need cognitive classes. CBT cognitive behavioral therapy is for people who have negative thoughts and trying to stop the conditioning around certain behavioral patterns and stuff. I don't know. Maybe that's helpful, but I wouldn't recommend that to. I think you got to find a good therapist who I love EMDR therapy because that helped me realize it. I had this very similar thing in my upbringing.

I do the same thing, to be honest, in a level of, I don't trust sometimes myself and I too easily trust other people and I doubt my own things. And I do that too. And then I realize- I believe the best in everybody. Yes, I believe that everyone's innocent until proven guilty. There's something like, everyone's guilty,

everyone's a crook. I'm like, everyone's great. And then being a pleaser sometimes, I just say, yes, people, and then I let myself get taken advantage of. And so would I realize what I'd never unpacked? And again, I've been in therapy for 25 years on and off. It was actually a very formative person in my home growing up that repeatedly gasped me.

Told me that I was wrong. Told me that everything I did wasn't, and I didn't even remember it. And there's something about releasing that and noticing it. I'm so much more careful now with people. I asked questions. I trust my gut because I just saw it. I'm like, oh God, it's down with my family.

It's with work and it's with people that I work with. I trust. So anyway, I would say that this is a great turning point for you, Bertha, that you're never done learning. I would keep trying to find a therapist that could help you. You know, ask friends if they've had good therapy that might be good for you because I think that it would really not only will it help you figure out your patterns, but it will also help

you heal and make better decisions in the future. And the other thing about therapy is it's so rewarding. It really is moving through things and realizing like, I am no longer that. And I feel like it will be so good for you right now. And I don't think it's CBT. So cognitive behavioral therapy. Okay, Berser. Yeah.

Now, this guy, I mean, he's likely a narcissist, a master manipulator, which is also can be a personality trait. You know, he's done it before, he's still doing it right now. So joining me now is psychological astrologer Dr. Jennifer Fried. Why do you think people cheat, Jen? If you have to say... Well, I think that there's as many reasons as there are people, but the two main reasons that I've seen over time is that people are in their original sexual relationships out

of just being completely gaga and thrilled and feeling sexually affirmed and feeling the most attractive person on earth. And I think a lot of people go outside the relationship when they feel rejected, ignored, or unwanted by their partner. And instead of really addressing that or dealing with that, somebody else sparks that old feeling of being wanted and desired and it becomes irresistible.

That's one reason. I think another reason is unspoken resentments that people in relationships stop really working through conflict. It goes underground and then people act out on each other as a way of expressing their anger and discontentment. But what do you think Emily? Those are ways I think. No, Jen, I think that you're right. I think a lot of times things are reminiscent of, like a lot of people I know who've had affairs personally, not just even our callers,

but I think you nailed it with the, somebody makes you feel desired and wanted. And I think we all want that. And that's that light that early on in a relationship, those feelings where all your feel good hormones are racing and you get that excitement. It wanes after a while. It really does. And then if you see somebody else who desires you ship, those feelings where all your feel good hormones are racing and you get that excitement. It wanes after a while.

It really does. And then if you see somebody else who desires you and wants you, it's just intoxicating like nothing else. So I do, I agree with you on that. Yeah, I mean, John, you nail it unspoken resentments when people can't communicate things build up over time. And then they cheat because they feel, well, my partner didn't do all these things. They're having a one-way battle.

They're waging a one-way battle with their partner. And they just think, well, I deserve this or they justify it in some way. Well, it's funny because I used to think early on that people cheated because it was about sex. But what I found out in all these years, it's very rarely just about sex. And I think it's ego and feeling elevated by somebody else. So I think you're right. You know, there's a fetish that can't be met. I'm trying to add to your list, but that's,

I think, resentments are what terrors part, even if you don't cheat. Yeah. And I think that as Stair Perel, I think that's how you pronounce something, really. I know her. I like her. She made a great point, which is that in North America, cheating is the ultimate betrayal. And it gets all this mileage and every TV show has a cheater and it's like cheating, cheating. But she says what we don't pay enough attention to is that there are so many betrayals that don't get a lot of air time. And the cheater or the cheating is the one that gets all the mention. But in relationship over time, betrayals can be on all kinds of fronts. I work with people who feel betrayed because their partner won't make an effort with their side of the family.

People come to me sometimes and they feel so betrayed because the person's on the phone all the time instead of paying attention to them when they used to come to the door and be ecstatic to see them. Betrayal is I think the seed or the root of most people's violating their relationship period. Those are such great examples, Jen. You're absolutely right. And they, or they about money, maybe they said there was a certain, they had more money than they did,

so they could be betrayed about finances. But then the cheating happens, and that's all we talk about. Yes, that is so accurate. I'm just listening to you here about these resentments. So what do we do if we're walking around these resentments? And what do you suggest for people to learn to start communicate these things, even if it's's been a while to bring it up to a partner?

Well, I think it's really difficult to not have a regular relationship hygiene. So I think what happens is we postpone all these conversations till they're not only walking on eggshells, they're walking on minefields. And what we really should do, and I'm speaking for myself as well, in a long-term relationship, is have a check in once a week about what's unfinished, what's not communicated,

so it's not like some big bomb you're dropping, but actually make it a priority to not only say what's going great in a relationship and not make a big deal of it, it could be over dinner once a week, but say, what are some things I'd like to see better? Why wouldn't we do that? I don't know why, John.

Is that what you do do that in your relationship? Do you have a regular check-in? Well, we started to under COVID. You know, what's true is we're together all the time now and we spend a lot of time in ways we never have before. So we have made it a regular practice. In our case, we're both therapists, but we do it about every three days.

At that point, but we didn't before. Well, that's so healthy. I mean, because otherwise, you say that you're seeing a lot of relationships that are breaking up and that are ending right now because of COVID. I think we haven't seen the fall- fallout but we're starting to see it now because it's been seven, eight months. I know so many people right now that are friends and colleagues who are just done. You know, they don't want to look at that face one more minute.

And I think some of it's COVID can try. I think it's just we were never given the tools to be this smashed together with people. And in any relationship you like to project and blame problems on the other person because it's much easier than looking at ourselves. But if you're with them all the time, they can easily become the villain in every scenario. Exactly. And we don't have these skills too. We didn't see COVID coming upon us. We didn't realize that this was going to be the case. Maybe we thought, oh, we'll go to therapy in the future. Oh, I'll talk to them about this another time down the road.

And then now, there is no escape. OK, Dr. Jennifer Fried's going to hang out. I'm going to take a quick break. There'll be more sex with Emily. Thanks to everyone for supporting our sponsors. You know, we only work with sponsors that we enjoy ourselves. And I hope you do too. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪

Let's talk to Ian Forty and Kentucky. Hi, Ian. You're with Emily and Dr. Jennifer Fried. How can we help you? Hey, I just got out of a relationship with someone who has been very emotionally unsupportive and very narcissistic and controlling. And we've broken up many times, I've moved out,

I've come back. They've been married this whole time to another man. And it's a gay relationship. you know they kept saying they were going to leave their partner, they still haven't done it and then finally last night was the final straw, I caught them in a lie, I read handed and they kept denying it and kept denying it and it's been like that ever since I've known them, they've had drug abuse issues, they've had all these major toxic issues, and I'm not that kind of person, I'm a former personal trainer and I'm a cosmologist

now, and I value, I feel like the body is sort of my temple, and I like to take care of myself and pamper myself, and they're just like the total opposite, they really abuse themselves a lot, and it's really sad to see them go through that so i just wonder you know i have sort of a pattern of being with emotionally unavailable men and i just wonder how can i break that pattern it's such a great question thank you and i love this question because so many of us repeat these patterns over and over again it sounds like you're really ready you're like enough already because you know your body is your temple and then you're getting someone is a drug

addict and who's married so I would say first have you ever had therapy and if you ever looked into anything from your past have you looked at your upbringing and I've had a few therapy sessions back in the day and I'm totally open to therapy I think it can be a very healthy thing as a tool to help you move forward for me personally I feel like that so I could use it but I am open to that. I think that would be really helpful because usually these things have to do

with intimacy issues. Like challenges around getting really close to somebody. Knowing that someone's not available means that you don't really have to show up in a full way. To know, well, this is a fatal flaw. This is how this is gonna end. But that's why I say therapy because there's some deeper work.

I think, you know, I used to always think that it was about the people I was dating that was emotionally available, but turned out I wasn't emotionally available. And so I feel like there's some of that. Jen, what do you think here to help our friend Ian? Well, Ian, first of all, you're incredibly brave to come on and talk about it. That's always the first step is owning that you keep showing up in the same pattern. So that means it's about you. And then it would be as you're as you're noting, it would be turning all that rescue energy back to yourself. And like Emily, and there's no accident, we love each other so much, I had very much that same pattern that you have in.

And I had to go into therapy and look at my fear of dependency. Because as long as somebody was screwed up and unavailable, I didn't have to worry about my own dependency issues because I was always working on drama. But once I really looked at how terrified I was to be vulnerable and dependent on someone else, and on that, I actually brought in a partner that could comfort me and soothe me

and not actually abandon me, and I didn't need to abandon them. So I feel, and it was almost about your age, like I really found the love of my life, et cetera, right about your age. So I have high hopes for you, and it's not about them. Just stop thinking it has anything to do with what he's doing or not doing or whether he's married. It has to do with how is it that Ian keeps playing out the same pattern where he doesn't get intimacy?

Okay, because it's a strange dichotomy from me because I'm very self-aware and I'm highly intuitive and you know, I'm a queryist. My birthday is 21515 so February 15th. And I can sense when people are being a certain way with me in a relationship and you know it's a put off to me when there's a lot of negativity there. But I've noticed that I'm very independent and I'm very self-sustaining and self-desessed. And I think that's a little intimidating to people sometimes because I feel like I was raised by my mother, mostly, who taught me and who's a tourist, who taught me how to be independent and stand up for myself, and I'm a lot like her.

And I feel like that might have some influence over my relationships where I just don't want men to get that close because I'm scared to be that vulnerable with them, but also I've been hurt a lot of times in my relationships. I've always been cheated on in every relationship I've been in. Also, I was very much abused as a child, though I've dealt with a lot of issues related to abuse and people who have a perversion of the mind and i'm just tired of that cycle of being with people like that and feeling neglected and it continues to read my frame of mind where i don't want to be

dependent on anyone i don't want to be co-dependent is that wrong it's not wrong it all no i have to say i'm sorry mean in thank you so much for sharing all this. So it's good. It sounds like you really want to figure out how you can take another route, how you could make healthier choices with all that you've been through. I mean, that abuse for all those years is really heartbreaking until we heal this, we keep

repeating patterns. So to me, I know you said you went to therapy a few times, but I believe that if you go into therapy and you commit to it once, so you sound like somebody who's driven and you really care about taking care of yourself, that it's going to unlock so many of the answers for you. And heal you like once a week for the next six months for sure. I would say and it's out, you've also had trauma. So I would recommend, you know, EMDR therapy is great for sexual trauma.

You can find that in your area. I think before you get into another relationship that I recommend finding a really good therapist, like look around for a therapist, like you'd find a surgeon for your heart. It's an important relationship. What do you think, Jen? I'm so moved and touched by your disclosure.

I think far too many men hide their sexual abuse. It's much more widespread than anyone wants to believe. So number one, your courageous soul, you sound like a very confident man in other areas of your life. And I would urge you to use that courage and confidence, Ian, to go into therapy and make the agreement with yourself, you will keep going until you feel free of this repeating complex of picking inappropriate people. And I know you will get there if that's your commitment. Okay. I appreciate that.

I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. Okay, Ian. I'll call up a few guys in about a month then. Okay. Perfect. Ian. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Okay. Perfect. Ian. Every night. Please follow up. Thank you, Ian. Thank you for that. Oh Wow, Jen. We all I mean, you know, even though I've been in therapy my whole life even in the last three years doing this EMDR I feel changed like I feel like I had patterns as well and I will never repeat them

You know, and I thought that I had already knew myself and I was already doing the work, but there's always more layers. I wasn't ready for a relationship, I wasn't ready to be vulnerable. So you're never done, but I think that for him to get into it is great advice, Jen. We need it. We do, we all need it.

Yeah, and I wanna say, as an EMDR therapist, national consultant with that, what I found is the people that have done the most work and thought about it the most gets so much out of EMDR which is a trauma-based behavioral therapy because they can go into the body and into the neurological patterns and undo the trauma responses. And that's so different than talk therapy because we can talk about stuff forever but it doesn't hit at the cellular level where we were most agonized and traumatized. We've got to get underneath. We got it right exactly.

It does rewire your brain, absolutely. We were talking to Amanda here. Our content coordinator was saying that, oh, she's got her roommates who are picking toxic men as well. So what's going on Amanda in your household? So it's funny because me and my roommates are all very similar and the reason I'm able to recognize this behavior and their choices

is because I've definitely been there. I think in my early 20s, I would chase emotionally unavailable people for the reason that Jen was saying in that I didn't want to have to do like my own work and my own intimacy issues and try to acknowledge them and work through them and all that. And so when healthy relationships started presenting themselves to me, I got really, really bored, really quickly and thought that true love was like full of highs and lows and screaming with like great makeup sex and I think that like what I'm seeing in

my roommates right now is a very similar thing where they are chasing these emotionally unavailable people one because it's exciting and they think that's what what love is, but also because they don't want to have to do the work of being emotionally available themselves. Yeah, it is true. We got to all do the work and I can't think of another way besides therapy.

I'm trying to think if I would have been able to figure out the patterns on my own, but Jen, do you see this too? And we don't want to look at ourselves, I suppose. We think it's a big deal to our life, rather than participants to our life. Well, I'm writing a new book and one part of the book is the only way to have true personal growth is to work on all four quadrants of self-development. And one of the quadrants is having the right crew. And Amanda, you are now one of the right crew for your friends if they're willing, which is you've got to be around people that will tell it to you like it really is. Because when you are seeking

drama as a substitute for love, you can find a lot of people that will be into the ooze and aes and the rollercoaster of it and oh what happened what did he say what did she say and it's just some extraordinary self-indulgent drama fest but if you have a friend that's willing to say to you hey I've seen this little show before and it always ends up the same and how are you playing this and how are you playing this? And how are you contributing to this? You are the common denominator. So instead of getting into the drama, asking process questions.

So yes, therapy's great, but Emily, you and I have this friendship. I would never blow smoke up your, you know what? I would tell it to you like it is. You're gonna tell it to me like it is. And now Amanda, you're that for your friends if they're willing to listen. Because at some point you've got to surround yourself

with people that keep you accountable, instead of just get into the audience watching drama show. You know, you can do that on TV, but our lives are precious. I can't believe how much time people waste in drama. Like waste. It's so time consuming. It's true. It's true. And the people who like love, you also know who these people are because every time we talk to them, they want to gossip about your friends and they want to talk about

other people. I just have no tolerance for that. I just don't, I don't enjoy it. I can tell right now if someone's talking to you about someone, when you leave, they'll talk about you. So I think just, I, yeah, I love that Gen 2 about the four quadrants near the new book. We should mention your recent book, though, Use Your Planets Wisely is a game changer. It's kind of what helped me understand astrology and my life and the signs in a way

that just made sense for the first time. So it's so funny that you mentioned books because I was going to say when Jen mentioned crew, that that was kind of how I started getting into it. One of my friends is getting her PhD in clinical psychology. So over at her apartment, she had all these books on attachment theory. And I picked one of them up and read one of them.

And then that slowly started getting passed around my friend group. And so we could have conversations about, we learn the phrase emotionally unavailable or what attachment theory was or what intimacy issues are. And so when you have sort of that crew that Jen was referring to, and you're not afraid to have the hard talks and initiate the hard talks,

you can really show up for other people and make it part of the language in which you speak to your loved ones. Yeah, I love that you have this. What a richer conversation. I mean, when you're saying that, I get so excited and amand it because I think what a richer conversation to talk about our attachment styles, instead of what happened at 4 a.m. that we had a blow up fight and saw somebody doing it.

Like that gets old quick to me anyway, but I'm older. It was a little more exciting when I was in my 20s to process and do the debrief on all the bad behavior of the week. I mean, you know what, but. Right. No, it's true. It's funny though, I feel grateful in my 20s.

Go I was going through a lap But I was in therapy and my best friend Mary was also in therapy And then we'd meet at Whole Foods after a therapy sessions and we were like 26 years old I remember and we'd go through like I didn't know that my my parents divorced had this impact I mean it was just I've always kind of gotten off on this stuff But no matter where you're at. I mean start there. It is true. You want to find your tribe. You want to find your people. I want to tell you a really good story, which is this. I have a number of very close men, friends, and this one in particular happily

married for a long time, but he was just so sad because he couldn't really find other men to go deep with, and he felt very alone. Well then I met this other guy through my work who was one of the loveliest men I've ever ever met, also straight guy having a little bit of relationship problems and I put them together as friends. I said, you guys have to meet. They became best friends like a total bromance and then they started a leaderless men's group. And now, a number of other men I knew got in this group.

So it was like seven men altogether. They would meet once a week for this last year and a half or so, two to three hours. Because these are all men that wanted to go deep. And I swear to God, this is the truth. In every single man's case, their relationships improved by 90%. And why? That's amazing. Because men don't have very many opportunities

to go deep with each other and to be called out on stuff. And all these men were longing for that level of intimacy and depth. And the one guy that was having relationship troubles, he was acting out. He was doing all kinds of horrible things, and they all didn't intervention on him. And he went back into therapy, and he cleared some stuff up,

and he's now in a really happy committed relationship. I mean, all sorts of great things happen out of this men's meeting. And wasn't a therapy session but it was men that had all done their own therapy. I will say that. Yeah you do need that as the precursor but I love ginger such a good matchmaker and so many levels friends and love matters of the heart. I would be ready for another fix up right now. Anyway but yeah I think that it's true that men don't really have that, don't have that support network. I know men in recovery who do, but not everyday men.

I think we need that. And that's all we hear from a lot of men calling to the show as well. Okay, more sex with Emily after the break. We have Bruce 51 in Canada. Hey Bruce, thanks for calling. Hi, how's it going? Good. We're here to help.

Wow. Okay, so pretty nervous here. I'm the one that's the social, our emotional distance one, like she goes my way on the verge of're not making any decisions and you're not the one that Take responsibility of your mistakes and you don't talk and yeah, okay Well, you probably weren't raised in an environment where it was safe or or encouraged to talk about your feelings or emotions which a lot Anything like that would happen. You've got to strap the belt, the wooden spoon. Wow. That was lucky. That was the good stuff. The minor

stuff. Bruce, well, that sounds really awful. What would it would a traumatic upbringing that it wasn't safe? And then you would be hit. If you grew up in a farmer, it wasn't safe. We I guess we assume like, oh, well, now I should know how to be emotionally available. No, why would you know Bruce? You really wouldn't know. And so, and that's why I think this is so helpful

that you called in because this is just make sense. We're talking about repeat, there was no great models of people expressing their emotions. So are you seeing Bruce that you'd be interested in now though and opening up and kind of learning? Because I had to learn that too. I always shut down for other reasons. I didn't know how to feel things.

So would you be open to it? There's the sexual abuse as well. And mum was 16 when she had me and other stuff as well. That's a lot to unpack. Yeah, and you're 51 years old and you want to make your marriage work. Yeah. Absolutely. I'm up for change.

I'm always up for improving myself. Bruce, I'm so glad you called in. I mean, I suggest letting your wife know this too, but you really want to find a good therapist to go talk to. And it might be a trauma therapist because have experiencing sexual abuse and emotional and physical abuse are all traumatic experiences. He's 51, Jen. What do you think about?

I think the first step is naming the problem and you've named it, which is you've had what's called a double bind. You've been taught emotionally that to be vulnerable, you will be hit and hurt and you've been asked by your wife to be emotionally vulnerable. So there's obviously a deep inner conflict about what feels true and safe and you need a good environment to work that out. It's too much to think it out. You can't think your way out of this. It's about learning to feel the feelings that you were never allowed to feel. And you're doing that by calling Emily tonight, you picked a really good person, you've got to pick the right person who's just going to say to you,

Bravo man, you're starting, you're starting to do this. And one of the feelings I'm hearing you own is you're very, very scared of being abandoned because you haven't been able to meet your wife's needs. Yeah. Yeah, wife's needs. Yeah. Yeah, it's scary. Yeah, Bruce. Yeah, it really is scary, you know, but it's never too late to start, to start on your path. And I think it will be, you'll have such relief. I mean, I'm sure you've

been in a lot of suffering and pain that you couldn't even figure out what it is, you know, because we've become professionals. Yeah, I suppose they're both the abuse like two years ago and then like she knows about my family and the upbringing like like if for one story like And like in my town is like if you got in trouble you like the kids would have to go to each family and they get hit and you know, it takes it all take turns and you know that's how everybody was growing up back there. Wow Bruce, that's really, really tough. I mean, no, it's fun. I mean, I know

you laugh, but it's like it's, that sounds awful. I mean, I'm sure the whole everyone in your town who you go up with is going to need some help with this. And they're probably repeating a lot of the same things, you know, and I'm glad that you let your wife know how long have you guys been together? How long have you been with your wife? Very 25, been together almost 30. Okay. So and you just let her know about the abuse, which is really brave, really brave.

What did she have to say about that and would she be supportive of therapy for you? Yeah. What did she have to say about that and would she be supportive of therapy for you? Yeah, well, she doesn't believe in therapy because she thinks that we should be able to talk stuff out. But she said that she's at her end or broke because I can't make decisions. I go to the store and I can't think, you know, get two eggs and I asked for 12, you know. Right. Well, that's that's called foggy brain and that is one of the biggest symptoms of long-term unprocessed abuse and trauma. People actually do suffer great indecisiveness because their brain gets taken up with too much trauma and they don't have clear decision-making skills. So again, I'm going to really agree with Emily that you can do therapy on Zoom now, you yourself, because you have had to bury so much pain. That takes up a lot of bandwidth in the brain. Yeah, Bruce. I guess that maybe your wife doesn't

really understand about therapy. I think that some people just think, well, we should be able to do all this, but not after the abuse that you've suffered, there's no way. I mean, you're 51 years old. If you were able to think your way out of it, you would already have done that. Like Jen said, you know, it just, and I can relate to this too. I have decision-making challenges. My brain is filled with sometimes a lot of trauma, a lot of thoughts, and I've had to really work on this as well.

And so I totally, my heart goes out to you. And I think that if she wants you to be open and emotive and available, that's the way you have to do it. Yeah. It's finding a therapist. There's really no other way out. And I think it's such a relief once you go and you have a safe space to talk about it. All right.

Thank you. Of course, Bruce. Thank you for calling. talk about it. All right, thank you. Of course, Bruce. Thank you for calling. I appreciate it. Okay, bye, Bruce. Hi. What a dear man. Yeah.

And how many marriages are broken apart because someone didn't get the help they needed, whether it's alcohol or trauma or all the rest. I mean, I'm just so upset lately watching certain friends break up because the one part of the partnership couldn't get the help they needed. Yeah, and we're so anti-help, but it's like, that is the answer. There is no way the way out.

You can't go around it, can't go over it, like, you have to go through it, but therapy, I guess it gets such a bad rap, right? People think it's gonna be this drudgery and this, you know, means that you're crazy. I don't know what the stigmas are, the people still hold on to, but it's like... It's like a moral weakness if you need someone else,

except for you wouldn't go to yourself for dentistry, you wouldn't go to yourself to get a pap smear. It's like this brain, this organ, this heart, so complex. Like you said, you should think about it as tender as a heart surgery and make sure you're with the right person. I don't have that skill set. I'm one of the smartest people I know and a therapist. I'd never go to myself.

I'm a horrible counselor for myself. I'd never go to myself. I'm a horrible counselor. I would never go to myself. I don't know. Let me tell you this. I would not go to myself as a therapist because I can't be objective about myself. You think I yield myself? No, I have a therapist.

She's been on my podcast. Jen is a therapist friend. I mean, I surround myself with people. And then you pick the wrong people. Believe me, I've gotten take advantage of. I've made bad decisions, you know? And I just learn, I got to correct these patterns. So, you have not got them, that's funny.

But I can help you. A swear to God. But I think that's true. It's like I'm super gifted with people that even have my same problems. And I can help them because I've got some awareness But when it comes to us trying to figure out how to undo the trauma done to us It's like being in a mummy suit and then saying I don't know why I can't get out of it myself

Right exactly Jen that is such a good example. It's like it's so true You're like I mean I can't say how many years I tried to I found all my old journals to from like my early 20s And and just like why can't I figure this out? Why can't I focus my what whatever it is? And it was like a loop of me trying and writing and I've always been on the path But I just couldn't do it until I committed committed to therapy like it was it was my life to pet out it because it did and I wouldn't let myself Get out of it was, it was my life to pet it out of it, because it did, and I wouldn't let myself get out of it, even though it was painful. I have a friend who's been wanting to go to therapy, and I finally gave her the name of my therapist,

and she went and she paid up front 10 sessions, so she would commit. She was like, I am about to go that I won't go. I thought that was great. I mean, what, it's like paying for your trainer or something to make yourself do something, but it is, it's why I'm here with you. That's why, you know,

because we've done the work and same with Jen. It's so true, you know, we're just trying to normalize it. That's why we're talking about it here. We talk about it all. Dr. Jennifer Fried, you can check out our book, Use Your Plan. It's Wivesley, her website,

JenniferFried.com. She's at Dr. Jennifer Fried on Instagram. Any final thoughts, Jen? I just want to say, be brave, trust the right people, and we will all heal the trauma we all need to heal. We will, Jen. You're so right. Thank you for helping us here.

You're welcome. Thank you, Jen. I came much, live to our community. Much love to you, Jen. Thanks for listening to Sex with Family. Be sure to like, subscribe, and give us a review wherever you listen to the podcast. And share this with a friend or partner. Leave me if you got something out of it, they will too.

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