Sex With Emily - Cuckolding, Consent & Casual Sex

Episode Date: September 11, 2020

Today I’m talking with sex, kink, and relationship educator Sarah Sloane from the dating app #Open about the reality of cuckolding, dating effectively after divorce and reigniting the connection with your partner.I explore consent as one of the sexiest things you can practice in a relationship, how you can use it to enhance intimacy and why it’s the hottest sex move you haven’t tried (yet).For more information about Sarah Sloane, visit: hashtagopen.comFor even more sex advice, tips, and tricks visit sexwithemily.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily and on today's show I'm talking with Sarah Sloan from the app hashtag open about how to find partners that want what you want Should we all have that we also take calls about dating after divorce and ethical porn all this and way more thanks for listening I know that I used to think when I was a young woman having sex that I didn't really think it was okay To say no or to stop sex. Somebody who's being honest about, here's what I'm looking for and here's what my boundaries are, that automatically makes you sexier. It's important to learn to be present in the moment.

If so many reasons why mindfulness is important, like reading your partner and you can ask them and say, you know, hey, how's this feeling? Are you into this? Do you want to keep going and do you want to stop? Look into his eyes. They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex. Eyes that block our sacred institutions. Betrubize they call them in a bygone day. You're listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily and I'm here to help you

prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around sex. So today, we continue with sex ed September. By talking a little bit about consent. I mean, obviously, we've been having a very public conversation about it since, me two movements started and brought consent to the spotlight, but still when it gets brought up, do you notice that people get uncomfortable

and some men today seem skittish? And I understand that it could be uncomfortable, but how about this? After listening to today's episode, you're actually gonna realize that consent can be sexy and that you're gonna want consent. Well, in the way I'm gonna talk about it, because listen, when you and your partner

on the same page makes everything that much better. Sounds like formal contractual agreement that you sit down and you're going to discuss it seriously, but making sure that you're both excited and you're both ready for sex, then what turns you on is really about being more open and honest around sex, and that just sets the mood every time. Communication is sexy too. I also talked with Sarah Sloan from Hashtag Open about their awesome app that brings people together in really unique ways.

You might have heard my interview with Miley on our August 11th episode. She also works for Hashtag Open. And Sarah is super knowledgeable about sex and navigating all kinds of relationships. Together, we talk about the controversy surrounding Jerry Followed Jr.'s recent firing and how his desires might actually just be normal, healthy behavior. We also talk about facing your sexual insecurities.

How to get past them? You know, a lot of times what we're worried about is actually holding us back. All right, guys, as part of our September back to sex ed, I started thinking about all the things with sex that we are never taught. Not only we're not taught as adults, but even today, young people in schools are not being taught this as well. So one thing that keeps coming up is consent. I think there's some confusion about what consent actually means.

And consent is an essential part of sex. It's not something that's outside of sex because we all have the right to do whatever we want to do with our bodies and with sex. And since we've been so buttoned up about sex, I know that I used to think when I was a young woman bodies and was sex. And since we've been so buttoned up about sex, I know that I used to think when I was a young woman having sex that I didn't really think it was okay

to say no or to stop sex. Let's say I was attracted to someone and maybe we went home, I went back to their room or their dorm room or their apartment, and we started fooling around. And then I started to feel not comfortable anymore with it. And I started to feel like, oh, that, I'm not really attracted to this person.

They just did something weird. I thought it was my duty. And it would be insulting. And I would hurt this person's feelings. And that was more important than me stopping any sex act that didn't quite feel right in the moment. And I just thought, oh, blue balls, which by the way isn't a real thing. I mean, yes, your balls can hurt if you think you're going to come and not come, but then

you come and it's fine. Like, it's not like their penis is going to fall off. And I didn't owe anyone anything, right? Especially as a woman. Like, that's what I thought. I didn't want to be shamed. I wouldn't want them to not like me. And all the reasons why we keep going with sex.

So, not to be thinking it's easier to say yes than to say no. But if you really understand consent, then you understand that it's essential to sex. And not just actual intercourse, but it's essential to even like moving forward with everything, with kissing, with making out with someone, and then moving into other things, it's okay to say not right now, or let's slow this down. I know there were a lot of times where I felt like sex was really rushed,

rushing to the main course as we think is intercourse, and I was like, oh, but I really liked we are kissing. Let's go back to that, or let's slow it down. Like I didn't think any of that was okay. And I think this also has to do with being really in touch with our own bodies and exploring, what makes me feel good? Am I actually enjoying this moment?

And we're so often in our heads during sex, we're not in our bodies, you know, we talk about somatic, is it embodied experience is actually being in touch with what's happening in our body in the moment. But if we were more present, we would say like, that hurts or I'm not warmed up yet or I'm not feeling it.

And if you think about it, if you are thinking about being intimate with someone, or you already are, is it a hell yes, or is it a hell no? If you're not feeling the hell yes, even if it's a hell maybe, maybe it's time to pause. What else would you need in that moment to get to a hell yes?

And maybe there's nothing. Maybe you're like, I'm gonna say in this maybe no period. You don't want to do anything with anyone unless you're actually both excited to it. You both want to be on board. We talk about consent and it's getting a lot of bad rap so people obviously, because there's so much assault on college campuses

that there's a totally go, oh great, now I gotta like, before I make out with someone, I have to have a picture of them saying yes on my camera. I'm like, that's not hot, that spoils the moment. But you know what else spoils the moment? Is when we don't know what's coming next, like, is she gonna let me go down her pants? Is she gonna sex gonna happen? But if you clearly discuss your boundaries and what you're into and have all these healthy

conversations around sex before you even have sex, like what turns you on or what are your fantasies? Then we'll actually know what's on limits, what's off limits. Then we won't be in our heads all the time worrying what our partners are gonna think. But let's just go back to consent for a moment. So ways to ask for consent, you could say, would you mind if I give you a kiss? Could we move this into the bedroom? Do you want to have sex? And consent doesn't have to be so dull.

You can make consent sexy. You could reframe a question. Think about that, like, as part of a seduction, as part of foreplay. Rather than saying, do you mind if I kiss you? You could say, I'm wondering what it would be like to kiss you right now. I'm wondering what your lips would taste like.

Would that be okay if I kissed you? To me, that's hot. If you're thinking about kissing me. And then I'm like, do I want this? Do I know I want this? But that's so much sexier than just not saying anything at all, making assumptions, or just going right forward and being rejected. And the other thing is a lot of times we miss opportunities because we don't ask for consent,

right? So we're so worried of rejection and we're trying to read someone's mind that we never make our move. We never let someone know that we're interested because we don't talk about sex and it's so shameful and so taboo that we think we should all be mind readers. Consent goes both ways. It's about being upfront, being open. What do I want? What turns me on? This is why I love our yes-no, maybe list that you can find at the sex with Emily's site. It's a great place to start if you don't know how to even talk about these things. What's on the table? What's off the table?

It lists everything from cuddling to kissing to anal sacs to spanking. If you both fill it out individually, then you could compare notes. Then you'll know, well, anal's off the table. So I don't have to try anal. Maybe there's some areas where you're both yeses. Well, how great if you both said yes to something, then you don't have to worry if that's okay. And when you're in doubt about anything, just speak up.

Like if you're not sure that your partner, you know, is into what you're doing, you can ask them and say, you know, hey, how's this feeling? Are you into this? Do you wanna keep going? Do you wanna stop? It's important to learn to be present in the moment.

If so many reasons why mindfulness is important, but reading the room, like reading your partner, are they feeling it? Because there was so many times where my face might have let horrified or I wasn't really into it. And I kept secretly wishing that my partner could tell that I didn't want to keep going. And if they've been paying attention,

they might have known, or if they had that knowledge that maybe they were so terrified that I was good to stop, because, you know, men sometimes are afraid of losing their erections, let's say, so they just keep going. So I think reading body language is really important, and also remembering that consensus temporary, what I mean is I might tell you at the beginning of the night

that I'm really into penetration, like yes, I want to have sex to do, and then it starts, and I realize that you know what? I'm really into penetration. Like, yes, I want to have sex with you. And then it starts and I realize that you know what? I actually changed my mind. That's okay. It's okay to change your mind. It's okay that you know, consent can change moment to moment or time to time.

Just because I wanted, you know, you to go down to me last time doesn't mean that it's okay this time, right? So it's okay to check in and make sure that your partner is enjoying it, and this is why again, presence and awareness of you and your partner are so important. And so as a reminder, like consent is not just the absence of no. Like no doesn't mean yes. Consent is not thinking that a no means yes. Consent is not about continuing after you change your mind because you owe it to someone. Consent is also not nonverbal resistance. I showed you I didn't want it and you kept going, you know. Consent is not saying that you're coerced into. It's not continual.

It's not I'm not sure. It's not a maybe. Just because I dress super sexy when I went over your house, that is not consent. Consent is to maybe one act, but it doesn't mean I said yes to everything. We just don't want to ignore the science from our partner. And you know what's really hot is slowing down. I mean, go five times slower. If we just slowed sex down in every way, the kissing, the fooling around, the everything, it's so much better because then we actually can feel what's happening. We're not rushing and we're much more likely

to actually know what feels good to us if we slow it down. Like six sex goes way too fast sometimes. So if you want to know what consent is, like a firmative consent, like Hellias consent, it more looks like something that's equal. You both want it. You're sober. Now, I know you could sober sex. You're like, oh, God, so dull. First off, that's when we don't have our right mind to be consensual. I don't even think that we enjoy it. I've done that. I am not a saint, but I'm just saying is that the best sex of my life? It is not. So remember, it's voluntary. It's enthusiastic. I'm into it. Like, yes, I want sex. It's engaged, it's verbal, and it's also very active, it's honest, and

it's definitely continual. We want to keep asking for consent. I've been talking a lot about how do we talk about sex and how we talk to our kids about sex. I've been advocate of it that in other countries, they definitely teach sexual health and wellness and consent to the young age. And so you meet kids where they're at. So when kids are young, they'll teach them about their actual real name

for their body parts and they'll teach them consent. You know, there's some people say, can I change your diaper? Can I give you a hug? You don't force them to give their aunt a hug if they don't want to give their ant a hug, right? And then you explain to them that their body is theirs, that there are autonomous.

No one else can touch your body if you don't want them to. You give them the words to use. And sometimes we won't say we'd notice something because we don't know how to say it. So you can teach your young children to say, like, please don't touch my leg. It makes me feel uncomfortable. I don't want you to do that to me.

And this consent language, rules, goes for everybody. It's such an act of self-care to be actually be able to say no. Like I wish that when I said no to my friends or meeting the for dinner, they would say, thank you for taking care of yourself. I get that you have to work or you need it down time. And know is a very personal thing. It's how I'm feeling in this moment. I'm respecting my boundaries.

And if we could just reinforce people's own choices, even when it comes to sex, if we've learned that someone's no, doesn't mean that we're a bad person or that we're ugly or that our bodies are not attractive, I think the reason why we don't take well to know is because we think, oh, I'm not attractive or I did something wrong.

And I think every time someone says no to us for whatever it is, going for coffee or giving a blowjob, we think no means rejection on us. And technically it is. This person is saying no, I don't wanna do whatever with you. But it's not for the reasons we think. Typically we create this whole story, I'm a bad person, I'm not desirable. They have something better to do.

Sure, all that could be true. Always. But typically, it's because someone's just saying, no, but it's not where I'm at right now. Being sexual with you at this moment doesn't speak to me, doesn't feel good to me. And if we could just continually reinforce it, no is okay, and it's actually going to get us

closer to getting our own needs met. Like why waste time with a bunch of people who really want to say no but they're saying, yes, how great to just find your people, find your person that actually is on the same page with you. We get there a lot quicker, we'd have much more pleasurable sex, we'd have much more satisfying sex. Who doesn't want that? Hang tight, I'll be right back after this quick break.

[♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ All right, I'm going to jump in because my guest is Sarah. So excited to talk to Sarah Sloan. Sarah is a sex, a kink, and relationship educator, and coach. She's also the director of operations and communications at hashtag open, which we've talked a lot about hashtag open on the show. We actually had my Leon a few weeks ago,

and what I love about this app is that I've never seen anything like it because first you can choose your identity, your gender, your orientation, it's all cool. You can also use a hashtag to express whatever you're into. BDSM, Cuckolding, Spanking, or just sexting. You could hashtag it on this app. It's just really cool. But Sarah and I have a lot in common.

She's been doing this for over 20 years, talking about ethical non-monogamy, kink, all the things. So Sarah, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. You're so lovely to be here. Thank you for having me. It's so lovely to see you. I mean, okay, so after we had, you know, Miley Ann and we've been talking about the apps right now

is dating, you know, a lot of couples, let's say this is what I've seen. Couples are staying together, but they're like, I don't know that we can continue in the same way, so let's have some of those difficult conversations. Maybe there's a fantasy we want to connect. Maybe we want to have a three-sem, or open it up. What have you been seeing with hashtag open and membership and trends during this quarantine time? hashtag open and membership and trends during this quarantine time.

You know, initially we, I think we are all kind of scrambling to figure out like, oh, how do we make sure that we're still bringing our community of members, something really amazing to kind of keep them, keep them connected with each other because the first thing that happened was everything got shut down. And we weren't able to see our friends, we weren't able to visit our family and so we knew that connection was going to be the thing that was going to get us through this. So we started really doing some shifts in terms of our business, including weekly, get together and weekly educational events for everybody, but also doing some members only events. But what we started seeing was that initial downturn, I think, where people were just not really

sure what they were going to do. And now we're finding people are more and more interested than ever in reaching out and having conversations in trying to find somebody as a potential, whether it's an online date or somebody to just kind of talk about their fantasies with. We've seen a bunch of couples that have come on board in the last little bit. Lots of people who are singletons who are looking for a couple of levels.

Yeah, let me say that. It's not just couples, you guys. It's for singles too, of course. It's for literally whatever, what I love what you're saying about these free events, and it is a free app, and you can find it at hashtag open. So what's cool is that you have the free education

and that's hashtagopen.com slash events. I sit here every night trying to help people sort of answer questions and kind of educate them on fantasies or how to communicate or just anything and the fact that you offer an online virtual place for people to get more information right now because you don't go from zero to nominogamy, right?

You don't. Yeah. One of the things that we are kind of getting a clue on, I think culturally, is that when we're going through times of a lot of stress, we pay attention to the fact that life becomes a little bit more valuable. Our time becomes a little bit more valuable. I look forward to the two hours a week that I get to go outside and spend time with a friend.

That has become much more important than it was before. I think the positive quality of that is that we're looking at like how can I make the relationships in my life or the sex in my life feel really fulfilling and really strong. And so we're kind of not glossing but over like oh well I've put up with this thing for five or six years I guess I can keep putting up with it. So I think for people who are willing to approach making some changes in their life or like learning something new with a sense of curiosity. I think this can be a really transformative time for folks. Having workshops that are fairly short, you know, we don't make anybody sit there for more than an hour because, you know, it's really difficult to engage online. But bringing in educators from all walks of life from

all over the United States on all kinds of topics. We've had everything from we have consent later this week. We had a workshop that some porn performers and producers did on how to consume ethical porn. So we have a little bit of everything. So there's something for everybody to peak your curiosity. So tell me about your ethical, because we talk a lot about ethical porn. And let me just tell you this. You've got not one nut but two experts on the show tonight

to answer your questions about fantasies, porn, open relationships, how to try something different in the bedroom. So let's talk about the ethical, because okay, so since I said this up, a lot of our collars are like confused by the porn consumption of their partner. They wanna watch with their partner,

but they haven't found anything that speaks to them. We know that porn is so much more readily available, so maybe you could tell me about the conversation on ethical porn. Yeah, Kerry's what came up. We had a couple of

jet-setting jasmine and kingmore who are performers and producers, they run their own porn business. And they did an amazing conversation where they talked about really intentionally looking for porn that is created ethically that honors the people who are creating it that doesn't fetishize based on bodies or based on race.

You know, looking at where porn performers are producing their own work so that they're making a good income from their work. But it's about more than just kind of like surfing corn hub. It's about actually finding a performer that you really like that is thriving and doing work that empowers them. And then kind of figuring out like what work is this person done? Who is this person enjoying? A lot of performers are on Instagram and on Twitter now,

so you can kind of get a little bit of a behind the scenes and get to know them a little bit. And I think for people who aren't sure about their own consumption of porn, being able to try to find a click with a performer and then start with that performer's work can be a totally different way of approaching porn that is actually more, I don't know, there's a little

bit more heart to it. I think it's not just for porn. There is more heart to it. It makes so much sense because there's sometimes so much shame people feel really bad or dirty after, you know, for multiple to reasons, but that might kind

of help people feel, yeah, a little bit more heart, little more soulful in your porn watching, little more consciousness. And let's talk to Matt 26 in Missouri. Hi Matt, what's going on?

Thanks for calling. Hi Matt. Hi, I'm Matt. I'm in my call. Of course. Kind of a weird question maybe. So I'm 26 and so I've never dated. I don't have game.

I met my wife when I was 21. Very sheltered childhood. Didn't really get out. We got married when I was 21, very sheltered childhood, didn't really get out. We got buried when I was 22. The last several years, I'm a abusive relationship. No sex life. I come to find out she's been cheating on me. And so now we're in the middle of the course.

And I guess the question comes down to a couple of things. Number one, when is it okay to get back in dating? Like technically I'm still married, I'm separated. When is it okay to get back in 20 things? It's true. Yeah. How? There's only one with no spirit. Mmm. Math, these are such good questions and not weird at all. And let me just tell you this, this question's going to help so many people. Like, you don't all call in, but I'm, you know, people listening, because I get this all ages map. It's not weird. People are married for 20 years

and have the same question. So first off, here's the thing, I'm not one who's like, you must wait six months. You know, I want you to wait until you're actually ready until you feel that you've healed from the relationship. You're ready to move on already. Like, is there still anger? You want to make sure you're to place where, like,

we're definitely moving on and I'm ready to date. I mean, you did file, that's great. So really it's more about your own emotional state. For example, let's say I met somebody and they were like, yeah, we're in this proceedings, it's really ugly. My ex is a bitch.

She cheated at me, but I'm like, you are not ready. But if you shut up on a date mat and you're like, yeah, my ex wife and I were just we're parting ways. It didn't work out, but I'm really open right now to just kind of people you know depends where your head is right now so are you ready to date if society doesn't matter are you ready to date

kind of and this i don't know if this makes me have to be a bad bad person or not kind of that feeling like a bad person i've done that for so many years now uh... i'm not ready for a relationship. Okay. Two-headed for some sex. Okay. Well, Sarah is like literally the perfect person. But first off, it's okay for you to state that to people because there's a lot of people in your position.

And that's how you get more comfortable. So Sarah's song from Hashtag, but what do you think, Sarah? Absolutely. You know, there's nothing that says that you have to go back into any kind of dating that fits a certain definition. You don't have to go look for your next big relationship. You don't have to go out and even look for more than just a single date. I think the thing that really resonates with everybody,

and this is whether you're new to dating or whether you're not, people forget sometimes that somebody who's being honest about, here's what I'm looking for and here's what my boundaries are, that automatically makes you sexier. Because there are a lot of people that love to play games, there are a lot of people that feel like they have to play a game or they have to say something to somebody in order to get a date with them or get some time with them.

And I know this from the dating app when people say, you know what, I'm here for this. I'm here for a coffee date. I'm here for looking for a long term relationship. You are more likely to get what you're actually looking for. Then if you just kind of go into it and say, well, I'm open to anything. You know, like, it's the thing that you want and go for it.

I think you just write boundaries are sexy. There's nothing sexy that someone is like, I'm getting out of a relationship, I'm just looking to meet people, make new friends. And I think it is a practice to answer your question, like how do you do it? It's like a muscle, right? It's something that you just have to practice and build

and I think being honest with people, check out hashtag open. However you meet people, I think it's great to, if you tell everyone that you're single and that you're looking to meet people, say yes to those events that maybe, well, right now I don't know what your quarantine's like in Missouri, but, you know, maybe there's some outdoor barbecues,

like say yes to those things that you wouldn't normally, because that's where you're likely to meet people. You'll get their mat, you know, and don't be hard on yourself. I relate to that too. Sounds like you've been through the ringer, and I would also recommend therapy. That could be really helpful.

You said it was abusive, and that stuff doesn't go away in time, unless it really helps to get into it, a therapist, that will really help this process too. They're both really expensive. They are expensive, but I think you're mental, I have obviously your physical,

but when you get mentally healthy, it's gonna help you in every other area of your life. Because then you'll understand who you are, what you're looking for, why you got yourself into that place, probably something from childhood was familiar, but go easy on yourself. Well, thank you so much.

Of course. Yeah, thank you so much. I'm not that love-a-show, by the way. Thank you, Matt. I'm here for you every night. Let me know it goes, okay? Okay, thanks, Matt. You probably get a lot of that Sarah,

like people who are newly single, or it's so scary to get back out there again, if you've never been on apps, but apps are the way to go now. I think that it's almost like, why not? You know, it is so much easier to go into an app. And, you know, we're set up for a double opt-in. So basically, both people have to match.

So it makes it a little bit more of a comfortable environment. You know, you're not gonna just kind of get a barrage of inappropriate photos through messages. But I think that having an opportunity to kind of test the waters with somebody, you get a little bit of information about them. I love it when people put pictures of them and their pets or them doing something active or something that looks fun. You know, I want to see somebody who has a little bit of a spark of personality.

With a dating app, you get an opportunity to kind of go like, oh, let me know a little bit by size about you. And then let's see if we match. And if we match, let's chat a little bit by size about you and then let's see if we match. If we match, let's chat a little bit. No pressure and we can kind of take it from there. So it's definitely cheaper than a single's bar for sure. Exactly. You don't have to buy him anything, right? You just need strong, why internet connection? It's funny because I've been saying for years, like, if you're going to date an app, like

you, I mean, if you're going to date, why get ready? Drive cross town, FaceTime them first, do video chat, and now it's expected. I was, if it's funny, I was talking to a friend this weekend and she was telling about a date, it's a quarantine romance. She said, we've been together for six weeks. She says we met, but of course we got through the first video date or we did two video dates. It's like, that's the norm now, which I love, the slowing down of getting to know somebody.

I think that that's what we've needed in a way, slowing down in every area of our life. So you can ask the questions and see if there's a connection. Yeah, it's about being able to make space for that exploration. I think about it often when we talk to people who have been working a highly professional job for years and years and years and then for whatever reason they have some time off. They get laid off or they're going to retirement and they suddenly have all of this time and they realize like, oh, I've missed out.

I skipped over things. And so I think creating this space gives us a chance to kind of say, what was missing? What could I do now? What can I do differently in the future? Yeah, what's important to me? What do I value? I also want to talk to you, but a few things. If you want to hang out for a second,

we can come back. Take a quick break. Don't go anywhere. There's more sex with Emily coming right up. Let's talk to Christie 52 in Texas. Hi, Christie. Hi. Hi. I'm so good. So what's going on? How can I help? Oh my goodness. Okay.

Well, my husband and I have been married for 20 years. And this is my second marriage, my first marriage ended with my husband being on tape. I've always thought really secure in this marriage. Recently we moved to a new city and don't know very many people. He was here a little bit before I did moved, but I, when I got here, I had noticed some stuff on the computer and on the phone, so obviously It is some stuff on the computer and on the phone. So obviously, he was looking at things and there was even a dating fight, but I think I do believe it was just mostly curiosity, not, I'm not thinking that he's had an affair.

But it just kind of triggers something in me. And so then lightly when we've been, and we have an active sex class for, or four, or five times a week, which I think is pretty good for a couple and there's a team. It sounds good to me. But I guess I just, all of a sudden, become really insecure because I feel like he's been watching porn and he's kind of being secretive about it and he's kind of trying new things, which I was figuring that he's, you know, learning from that and, you know, one night I said, because I started listening to you, I, you know, why don't we try and watch something together?

And, you know, so we watched a little bit. And I'm, I've given him several opportunities to kind of be like, so mean, without saying, I know that you know how to address it, but I can tell when we're making my life, he has his eyes closed, he might not even be looking at me and I kind of feel like he's not having sex with me, even though he is, but it's the bedding in his head. So I guess I just need to know how to communicate that because then I have to kind of stuff that I was nosy and you know. Oh, Chrissy, it sounds like, well, first off, thank you so much for calling with us, because that's a lot to unpack. It's like, you knew city, you've been together 20 years, you found some stuff.

It harkens back to your earlier cheating with your ex-husband that you didn't trust and that cheated. So I understand all of this. So, so first, is he cheating? Is there something going on and then the porn part of it? But I think there's another part of it that's more about pulling back and just talking about your sex life in general. And you said his eyes were closed and he's trying new things.

And but you're having sex five days a week, which is, I think that's super healthy. But I'm curious, like, has there been a market change? Like, did he just start trying new things a week ago, or did it start to seem like new? Because you saw the stuff. I think that it's probably been maybe, like in the past four or five months, he's been here a year, I've been here maybe eight months or so. Okay. Like I said, I've done the long, a couple of inappropriate messages that made me feel uneasy.

I mean, I've always just felt like I was going to pedestal with them. But whenever I see, so they were messages. You actually saw messages. I'm just trying to understand. So you saw like an exchange from somebody. Yeah. It was and it's really was pretty innocent, but he had reached out to somebody from high school and there was some message, there was nothing sexual in them really other than one of the girls, there

were like three and I think it was more of an ego based or something like that. It kind of faced books, hurt my feelings, you should bet. Of course. He would do that. And of course, I feel super inexperienced because I've had sex with two people in my entire life and I was married to both of them. Christie, so here's a thing, there's a certain journey. Maybe it is important for you to kind of figure out what does turn you on. There's no way you would know after being with two

people for all these years, you know. I didn't know it. I was 35 years old. I didn't know. I was with a lot of people. And I was like, no one, I thought it was all about pleasing my partner. I thought sex was about pleasing a man and performing. And so I had to learn that too. So there's like a two-partier. I think it would be great for you to talk with your husband and say, I know when you ask me, I want to learn together.

Would you be willing to use some like, mutual masturbation, finding porn that actually works for you and just not to please him? And maybe this would be something new and exciting that, you know, I love that he asks what you want. It sounds like he really wants to be a great lover to and he wants to please you. It sounds like it.

And that if you guys could maybe make this exploration part two of like your, or you know, your sex life 2.0 right now about exploring together what turns both of you on. It could be interesting. What do you think Sarah? I think sometimes it's about having the vocabulary around sex. That can be really challenging. I do kink 101 classes and people are just like I know that there are things that I can do but I don't know what they are or what would feel good for me. One of the tools that I've recommended is to do

what's called a yes-no-maybe list. And it's basically a list of like different things. It might say like anything from you know oral sex, to massage, to you can get kinky versions of it, but what it does is it gives you a list that you can kind of go through and you can do one separately from your husband and you can circle like yes I'm into this no I'm not really into that maybe I don't know enough about this to know whether I'm up for it or not. But you can kind of get this list of things that you can consider one at a time. Hey is this something that might be awesome for me to try? And then the two of you can compare those lists and look for the yeses and look for the

yeses and maybees. Because it starts developing a language of pleasure for the two of you. The other thing is, even if corn is not something that turns you on, I would suggest picking up some erotica. I really love like the short story erotica anthologies. You can get them on your Kindles, and nobody knows that you're reading corn. But sometimes it's like reading through that gives you an idea of like, oh, it was really hot when he tied her up or it was really hot the way that, you know, she picked this person up in a bar. And so you can kind of build a fantasy library for yourself that can then help you when

you have that conversation with your sweetie and you say, like, hey, I want to do more exploring, can we talk about some things? And keep in mind that a lot of men have a lot of shame around their sexuality. We kind of don't necessarily give them the okay that, hey, it's okay for you to have sexual desires outside of what we've really specifically told men that they're allowed to do. So, you know, approaching it from a, hey, I see you trying new things, I see you, like wanting to explore. I want to be there with you. I want to do this with you as your wife. I think could potentially help diminish some of that shame as well.

Yeah, without judgment and saying, I'm in it with you, babe. We've both been together for 20 years. Let's play. Let's have fun. We have to have a yes, no, maybe listen on our site at sexwithamily.com. I sign up for a free hashtag open class. I mean, like, I think it is partial education and exploration because I totally get Christie that you don't even know what's on the menu. You're like, I wanna know, but I've never explored. So it's partially educating yourself through all these great ways.

Sarah mentioned and also just having a healthy conversation with your partner and also remembering it's not a one-time conversation. Like this won't be solved one night at dinner with him, right? But it becomes part of something that you're in. It's like a new, think of it like a new sport or a new hobby that you guys are taking up together. And that hobby is your sexual intimacy. Okay. Of course, Christy, I'll be here for you. You can just have the first

conversation. Let me know it goes. Okay. Thank you for calling. Christy, appreciate you. Of course. Thank you for calling. All right, Sarah Sloan's here. I Sarah Sloan's from that, Hashtag open. We have history. We both worked together in this, in the industry and Sarah's work in sex education. So I want to talk to you about, what's happened with Jerry Fowell, Jr.

Mm-hmm. And there was a lot of press about this. The former chancellor and president of Liberty University, the country's largest Christian university. And what came out is, I think there was a few allegations and then finally he had to step down from his post about cuckolding, okay? So cuckolding is the fantasy of watching his partner have sex in this case with another

man. It's a common fantasy and it is one that has a lot of shame around it. Let's just talk about cuckolding for a moment. So I want to just kind of say like a lot of people are assigning cuckolding to the fall wells. And like the old school dictionary definition and we know how long dictionary definitions are good for, basically says that the cuckold is the man whose wife has stepped out on him without his consent. And so like there's that piece, but we don't know the content of what his relationship with his wife was.

They, for all we know, it sounds like from one of the reports that this was consensual, that they were consensually bringing a third person into the bedroom that he was watching. And whether he was watching because he's a lawyer and he really wants to do that, whether he was watching because he's a lawyer and he really wants to do that whether he's watching because his wife, you know, he likes seeing her pleasure, which is the doored compulsion as gets used a lot in non-monogamy circles to talk about getting pleasure from your partner's pleasure.

It could be that there's a little bit of a humiliation aspect in it, which is what we call like the new definition of cuckolding. But we know that there was some additions of more people. We know that at least one of them is being presented as being consensual. It seems like there are some other ones. But in most cases, it feels like that this is something that was, he was aware of, but I think that the way that we structure kind of morality in this country is that it's not okay for you to admit that you are engaged in a consensual threesome, especially when you're somebody who is kind of like literally

the head of the representation of the more majority. And so it really, and, and you know, we were talking a little earlier as well about that this is such a profound fantasy for so many people. You know, the numbers of men who have fantasized about their wife having another sexual partner is well up into the 50% over. So the average man has fantasized about this. Exactly. We hear about them too, and there's a lot of shame around it, which I think again, it's such a good point that from all means, from what I've read, you've probably all read.

If you read about the news, it was consensual, it was an ongoing relationship with somebody who they kept seeing together. To me, it sounds like that's how a lot of these fantasies kind of unfold. And I don't like the work, I don't like Cuckolding. I feel like what'd you say they call it now just not compression, but call it a day. Cuckolding has a little bit more of a flavor of erotic humiliation involved in it. Because yes. I love the term compression because so many people just think like I can't imagine that

that would ever somehow give me pleasure to see my partner have pleasure, which is, I mean, a lot of us get hung up on like, how could he watch his wife do with someone else? And 52% in studies, this is by this Justin Lane-Meller, who studies a lot of these, his fantasies, says it had her sexual men, 52% that they fantasize about watching the part of sex with someone else. And the basic premise is kind of intuitive in the sense of like a lot of fantasies when we're told we don't want or we can't do something, we want it even more.

I think you don't relate to that, right? We want it more. And that does create a risk. If you're going to violate a taboo, that creates a greater risk. But the interesting thing is, when you talked about that people in this particular article that men who are more on the right politically tend to have this fantasy more often than people who are on the left politically are more conservative people tend to have this fantasy. And the people on the left are more of a BM and that's more of their fantasy and I just find it interesting you

break down a political divide. There's a lot of the structure of kind of like the patriarchy. So like this this very like men are the head of the household men are responsible for everything you know they're the spiritual leaders or they're the financial leaders of their home. There's a lot of that that's kind of wrapped up in kind of current right wing thinking. And so the big violation there is that the man loses control of what his wife can do.

And so for a lot of men, you know, having your partner have sex with another man is literally a challenge to masculinity in a way that, I think, for some people, that can be really hot because it really does kind of pull that taboo right up to the surface of, what would happen if my wife was sexually pleasure by somebody else? So there's this really dynamic tension for a lot of people.

On the other hand, I know a lot of guys are on the left wing who go to swing clubs, that go to swing clubs because they really like watching their partner have sex with other people and it's fun and there's no, that tension isn't there. That's just that's not the thing for them. And that's like the question of whether or not it's healthy. The relative health is kind of not really the big thing to debate to me. The question is, is everybody going into it with a sense of curiosity and a sense of authentic consent? And when it's over with, do you feel good about it in retrospect? That to me is how we break out what a healthy sexual life is.

And that could be cuckolding. That could be tying your partner up. That could be having really amazing monogamous missionary position sex with maybe a toy every once in a while. There's no right or wrong in that. It's like the question is whether we're creating a space with our partners where we can say, hey, you know, I think it'd be really hot

if we like talk dirty do each other or if we, you know, cruise together on a dating app. That's where the health of a relationship and that's where the health of sexuality comes from. It's such a great definition of it that it's like you don't want to wake up with a shame over. You want to make sure that you feel good about the act afterwards, but it starts with curiosity and openness.

Couples can actually have very healthy relationship. We don't know what happened with his relationship. Hopefully, it was healthy. I think the part that probably wasn't healthy was that he was hiding it. But in many relationships, and you probably see this in your work as well, we rather live a life not fulfilling my fantasy than actually try some things that actually could work out. Like maybe people have this fantasy of wanting to see their partner with somebody else or try BDSM, but they just don't know where to start.

And I know you educate on this as well. You know, what are you finding? Do you find couples come in together and ask questions about opening up or what comes up? What's the first step usually for couples? More individuals. Really great question.

I think a lot of people come in and feel like I have this thing that I've been thinking about, what are the steps that I need to take? And a lot of times they want technique, I have to say it really amazes me constantly, the quality of members that we have in app, because we've got a lot of people who they're kind of like, okay, so we've had the conversation about deep consent. We're working on this and who they're kind of like, okay, so we've had the conversation about deep consent. We're working on this and it's always kind of like this moment as an educator where you're like, oh, yay, you got it.

I think that for a lot of people, the first step is figuring out that it's okay for them to have that desire and then figuring out how they can share it with somebody else without feeling shamed or judged. And I was that person when I was in my late 20s. I wanted to try some stuff. And my soon to be future ex-husband was just not down with it. But the way that he responded kind of reinforced

this idea that my desires were shameful. And so when we were talking with Christy earlier, one of the things that I really wanted her to hear is like, hey, we come to the table when we were talking with Christy earlier, one of the things that I really wanted her to hear is like, hey, you know, we come to the table when we're talking about sex with a lot of deep seated chain, like we are not living in a culture that tells us it's okay to have the bodies that we have. And so to acknowledge for our partner, hey, I want to make space for you to just tell me what you're into.

Even if it's not something I want to do, we can find a way to fantasize about it or we can find a way to kind of scratch that itch a little bit. Can be such a gift of grace for our partners. And it also reflects back on to us. If we're creating a space where we're not going to judge or shame our partners or our friends when they disclose to us, then maybe we can internalize some of that and not judge or shame ourselves for what are entirely normal and perfectly healthy fantasies and desires.

It's all right, it's all okay. That's so true that part of our job as sex educators is really just saying it's okay. It's healthy, you're okay. And then teaching us how to talk to our partners and recognize their shame. Part of being sexually healthy is acknowledging that we're all sexual beings and we have desires and we might not understand them, but feeling that we have a partner that can listen and giving that space and saying,

I don't really understand your request, but I'm here to listen. Let's learn more together. Putting words around it. You were so right earlier when you said, so what if it's not enough the words? Not only the words describe it, but we're into but the words to even be a compassionate and passing partner. We're just not taught how to really

communicate like that. I remember going to Marital Counseling over two decades ago and they gave me that really simple when this happens, I feel this way and I would like for this next time. And that was the first step in me being able to have a conversation with a partner that was authentic. I also really love reading books about emotional intelligence because I think that, you know, the same communication skills that we use in our relationships with our partners in the bedroom, those communication skills work really well in our relationships with our partners in the bedroom. Those communication skills work really well in the rest of our lives.

Which ones of you readily that you're in too? I've been rereading Sunutailer's The Body is Not an Apology, which is an amazing book. Amazing amazing. I don't think I know it. She created the website, thebodyisnotenapology.com. A lot of it deals with radical body acceptance and it talks about folks we're queer, it talks about folks who are people of size,

it talks about folks with physical disabilities. And it really is about that we all have the right to exist in our body with love and to get the things that feel good for us. It's about sexual power. It's also about getting our emotional needs met and getting our basic physical needs met and that all of that kind of together is what creates a whole person. We can't just skip any one part of ourselves if we want to be a whole person. Exactly. I mean, that is the work. It's so, that's so interesting. Like,

in going back to Christie, that's so interesting. Like, in going back to Christie, it's so true because it's like there was so much there at unpack where, yes, I wondered if healthy conversations with our husband, but it does all start with ourselves. My listeners are so brave for calling in even asking their questions because it's like, I know that they've never talked about their sex life really or thought about it or to even say, but okay, the first step is loving ourselves and we're even liking ourselves. Where does that start? And doing some work around it. And that's why I always encourage people to have these conversations before

you get married. If we can. But it's good to leave. Yes, I love this. So, okay, let's, what's coming up next for a hashtag open that people want to come to an event. You asked that you also have a YouTube series. Can I actually see all of our previous 20-some episodes of our hashtag open. We've been doing this since the beginning of quarantine. Thank you so much, Sarah Stone, for being here from hashtag open. It's the app you need to all check out.

That's it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to Sex with Emily. There's so much more to talk about. So don't miss my next episode. Subscribe to Sex with Emily right now. Just do it. Dizzy. Do it right now. You can find us on all social media. It is Sex with Emily. Was it good for you? Email me feedback at sexwithemmily.com.