Sex With Emily - Divorce – It CAN Be Over Easy with Laura Wasser

Episode Date: August 23, 2019

On today’s show, Emily is joined by attorney, author, & Family Law Expert, Laura Wasser to talk about the difficulties of divorce & why it should be easier and how sex plays a role in it all.They discuss why finalizing a divorce is such a struggle, the main reasons why people separate and how it all comes down to communication, and what we should all know before walking down the aisle.Follow Emily on all social: @sexwithemilyFor even more sex talk, tips, & tricks visit sexwithemily.comFor more information on Laura Wasser, click HERE Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If you're going to cast your lot with somebody, you need to know yourself maybe a little bit better, but most importantly, you need to know the laws in your state. Some of you will get married, they don't even realize that like in a state like California, that means half of everything you make is going to be hers or his. Most of my actor clients take direction very well. Like you have to really walk them through it. There's a lot of times that I'll write an email for them, that they can then make a little bit more their own and send, but they definitely want a little bit more direction. My artists, like my musicians, are way more emotional about things,

and I have to kind of hand hold a little bit more for them. The breadwinners, whether they're male or female, really want to make a deal, because they know that they're paying for everybody. The supported spouse is generally the one that feels like he or she doesn't have much to lose. And we have to explain to them, yeah, you do, because you are spending money that would otherwise be going to you or your kids on lawyers. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. On today's show, I'm joined by attorney, author,

and family law expert, Laura Wasser, to talk about the difficulties of divorce. And why it should be easier, along with the common issues that people face, and how sex plays a role in it all. Topics and Clib. So if marriage is a walk in the park, then why must we jump through all these hoops to get a divorce? The main reason people separate and how it all comes down to one thing, communication. How often sex issues break up a marriage and it happens more than you think. And what we should all know before walking down the aisle because a marriage is a lot more than just

a wedding day. All this Eyes that mock our sacred institutions. Betrubized they call them in a fight on day. Hey, Evelyn, you got a boyfriend? Because my man E here, he just got his heart broken, he thinks you're kind of cute. The girls got a hair stand. Oh my! The women know about shrinkage.

Isn't it common knowledge? What do you mean like laundry? It's shrink? Can we not talk about sex so much? Are you kidding me? Oh my god, I'm off here, so I'm drunk. Being bad feels pretty good. You're listening to Sex With Emily. We're talking about sex, relationships, and everything in between. For more information check out sexwithatelay.com for even more awesome sex tips that we updated every single day and, find me Monday through Friday

on Series XM Radio. I'm on from five to seven PM Pacific on channel stars 109. And you can get a free trial if you go to sexwithemlee.com slash SXM. Find me at all social media. It's at sex with Emily across the board. All right, guys, I hope you enjoy this interview with Laura Wasser.

All right, I'm really excited for my guest today. I have attorney Laura Wasser. She's an author entrepreneur, family law expert, founder and CEO of the online divorce platform called It's Over Easy. Now let me just say this, I always said why, why, why is it so easy to get married and divorce takes forever? Why can't we make it easier? Well, Laura is now making it easier for you guys. It's an online service that basically makes divorce a hell of a lot less stressful, so it sucks less. Speaking of sucking, she has a podcast,

a weekly podcast called Divorce Socks, which I loved being on a few weeks ago, and you have represented some pretty big people, Ryan Reynolds, Angelina Jolie, Maria Schriver, Chloe Kardashian. I fell asleep listening to your podcast in Chloe last night and I'm like, that's like good. It's amazing to me. All these lives that you've been in, your best seller, 2013, it doesn't have to be that

way. How to divorce without destroying your family and bankrupting yourself. You launched your podcast last year, which is really successful right now. So congratulations to them. Thank you. Can you first just talk about your own journey a bit? How you got into like, why family long? My dad is a family long journey.

So even though I thought I would never follow in his footsteps, in fact, I didn't even think I'd be a lawyer, which is kind of a joke because my parents named me Laura Alice and Wasser. My initials are law. I fought it so hard until basically I was graduating from college at Cal. And I was like, well, what else am I gonna do?

Cause I'm certainly not gonna go to medical school cause I didn't have those kind of grades. So I was a rhetoric major in college. I went into law school. I still never thought I would be doing matrimonial law. And I got married the summer before my final year of law school. I had a big wedding in 1993, gorgeous, whatever,

but I was 25 and so was he, and we were clearly too young to be married. So about a year after, while I was waiting for my bar results, I said, okay, this is probably not working, and he's like, yeah, you're probably right. And we were the perfect candidates for it's over easy. We didn't really have anything, we had some debt. But even as a first year associate filling out

those forms by myself, and I'd been to law school and English as my first language, I was like, wow, this is really difficult. Why does it have to be so difficult? And that's why people get lawyers because it's a totally emotional time. It's so scary. And then you've got all these forms and you don't understand them. You're sure you're going to be doing them wrong.

And this is the next chapter and you have to make sure financially recovered and your kids are covered. So it's super scary. Anyway, I did that, and in doing that, I did it at my dad's firm. I said, can I work here for a while

until I get back on my feet, and I never left, because it's a really interesting field of law. Like you said, you get to know all kinds of people. You touch their lives, you get in there for like six to 12 months,

and then you're done. And so all of these people who like told you everything, everything, like they have to, everything about sexual proclivities, cheating, dreams, you know, every financial issue that they have that they would never share with anyone, hey, I at least support, but I really can't afford it like every month I'm scraping to make the payments or whatever it is. I know.

And then poof after the after it's done, they're done. I like run into them in a restaurant and we're kind of like, hey, you know, it's almost like you're the therapist, you're kind It's almost like you're the therapist. You're kind of part therapist, because you're also like, let's get back to this. But because they probably break down at your table, solving, I'm sure. And I say like, do not ask me.

I am a hot mess. I have two different guys. Like, I don't know about relationships, but what I know about is the most financially reasonably sound way to move on to the next chapter. And I can do that no matter how much money you have or how little money you have. And so that's why I started it's over easy

after practicing for 25 years. I was like, this message needs to go to more people. We need to change the way people approach divorce because it's not over easy. It's so sad, it's so difficult, but that shouldn't play out in your financial and business transaction as part of getting divorced. So essentially it's over easy is making it easier easier so you won't get caught up in all the

financials as much. Yes. Yeah. I mean, you can negotiate with your spouse on your own time frame if you do need help. If you hit a wall, like you just cannot figure out who's going to have Wednesday nights, we will refer you to a mediator that you can go pay separately whatever and maybe then come back to the table and do the rest of it. The problem is there are so many different moving parts in a divorce and if we can't

get through them simply, if you tell people the law and you explain it to them, they generally can do it themselves. I mean, it's not, it's not a huge mystery. But no one's ever taken the time to figure out like this is so smart when they're really businesses. Not when you're making $900 an hour. Why would anybody try to figure it out? Make it simpler.

No, smart though for what you do. I think I love that. I want to get back to that and then about first I have to say this. 25 you got divorced. Now one of my things and I've been saying this figure is like I don't think anyone should get married before they're 30. I think we barely even know ourselves. Right.

And even then I know a lot of people who still don't and they're in their late 30s, 40s. So deep. Exactly. Right? You say that we're all figuring it out. even then, I know a lot of people who still don't, and they're in their late 30s, 40s. So deep. Right, exactly. Right, you said, we're all figuring it out. Still, I'm an expert in second. I'm still figuring my life out, right?

So, but when it comes to relationships, like what have you seen, first of all, do you think that's true? Do you find a lot of people, they just should not get married? I think yes, I think it depends. I think it depends. They shouldn't have gotten married under age 30.

I don't know that we could regulate that. I would sure love to see. I can't regulate, I can advise it. They shouldn't have gotten married under age 30. I don't know that we could regulate that. I would sure love to see people have more counseling beforehand. Like, you know, that line from parenthood working on a rives is like, you don't need a license to fish. And you need a license to drive. But any butt reaman asshole can become a parent. It's that all over again. If you're gonna cast your lot with somebody,

you need to know yourself maybe a little bit better, but most importantly, you need to know the laws maybe a little bit better, but most importantly, you need to know the laws in your state. Some of you will get married. They don't even realize that like in a state like California, that means half of everything you make is going to be hers or his. People don't know that. Exactly.

So we're like, we're all like, you know, the early start, the dopamine, the love hormones, we don't care about anything. It's all going to work out because I'm madly in love. But have you found when people are sitting in your office, like do you feel like there's certain types, or like do you get them right? Like I know when someone calls into the show, I'm like, oh, I know exactly. You're drawing with your history,

I know why you're dating this kind of person. Yes. Do you feel when they walk in, you're like, I've got this? And what are some common like archetypes, would you say? Well, it's interesting. I feel like most of my actor clients take direction very well. Like you have to really walk them through it.

There's a lot of times that I'll write an email for them that they can then make a little bit more their own and send, but they definitely want a little bit more direction. I definitely think that my artists, like my musicians, are way more emotional about things. I'll really have to explain things three or four times. And these are broad generations, but those guys are the ones that are a little more emotional,

and I have to kind of hand hold a little bit more for them. And it's interesting. Male, female, I don't necessarily see as many trends, but I definitely see trends in the breadwinners. The breadwinners, whether they're male or female, really want to make a deal, because they know that they're paying for everybody. The supported spouse is generally the one

that feels like he or she doesn't have much to lose, and we have to explain to them, yeah, you do, because you are spending money that would otherwise be going to you or your kids on lawyers fighting over things that you may not care about. It's not just an bottomless pit. So let's have a finite number here and then come to it. Oh, God. So in you do deal with a lot of celebrities. How does that has to just kind of what the firm you're in? How did that happen? How did you become that person? Well, as you know, I mean living in Southern California,

almost everything somehow touches the inner teminant. That's interesting. So you like the celebrity realtor or the celebrity dentist, you know, so the celebrity divorce attorney, I guess falls that way. I think when I started practicing, I was probably almost 10 years younger than most of my colleagues at the time. And I dressed young and I spoke young.

And so I would get a lot of referrals for young people in the entertainment industry, young actors, young musicians, young athletes, because their representatives, whether they be agents or business managers or entertainment attorneys, would go, oh, she's good, she'll talk, she'll speak their language, she'll get it. And so came from that. And growing up here too, you're not like in all, like, oh, look, it's Angelina, you're like, okay, let's get your job done. Exactly. Right, so a little more kids and more money going on, but it's all the same. It's a divorce. It is. It's the great equalizer I like to is. It is, right? It is, right?

I mean, so what are just some of the common issues you see? I know it's a really broad question, but for example, I'm every hearing a few years ago that like in eight out of 10 divorce cases right now, Facebook came up in the transcript. There's a lot of social media. I mean, there's a lot of social media and there's a lot of online stuff. I mean, people will find their spouses, you know, having full online relationships, they've never even met the person, but whatever it is that they are not getting from their marriage, they're kind of putting into the computer to this person out there. People do online dating,

even when they're married, that whole dolly medicine, you know, scandal that happened. So that's a lot, but again, as you probably would agree, that's not the underlying problem. Back up to what are they missing in their marriage that causes them to whether it be online or just going to a bar and meeting somebody and hooking up, what's happening, where's the disconnect there? And that's age old. And so people probably don't do enough work to figure out how to communicate. And instead of resenting and shoving stuff down, actually talking about it working through it. And then there's also people just grow apart. If you get married when you're 25, the chances are you're going to grow up and determine who you are. And it may

not be the person that grew with this other person. So I don't know that human beings are really inherently meant to meet for life. I believe we like to be families. I have my family. I have my tribe. I have the two meant to meet for life. I believe we like to be families. I have my family. I have my tribe. I have the two dads to my two kids. I don't know that either one of them would want to be with me for the rest of their lives either, but we sure do all have Thanksgiving together and we sure do come together in a crisis

and in time to celebration. I have their backs and they have my, I just lost my mom two weeks ago. Everybody was there at the funeral. They've checked in every day. They're making sure I'm okay. I'm part of their family. Wow, well, sorry. Thank you for showing up today. It's not even.

Wow, I didn't know that. And that is tough. Yeah, I'm with you. I don't know that we're just a mate for life. I don't see many cases where it actually works. But what we can do is start talking about these things right away in the relationship early on. Yes.

Talk about everything, because you're right. It's not about the fact that you had a Facebook affair or you met someone at a bar. It's more about these resentments that have built over time because you didn't talk about it 10 years ago. And you can even go back and unpack what it was because so much more shit has been piled on top of it. Yeah.

And now we just hate each other. And you want to recreate who you are and represent who you are to somebody new, not the person that already knows all the shit. And so you do that. Whereas, hey, if this is a person that you actually walked down the aisle with made vows to had kids with, maybe start there.

Exactly. So how much do you see sex as a role, play a role in these things? Like maybe they went off, they both wanted, they had different sexual proclivities or they weren't having sex. Like does it come up a lot? The weren't having sex comes up a lot.

I think people that experiment, have proclivities, they usually do okay, because they are having some kind of communication, some kind of intimacy, even when things go horribly, horribly wrong. Hope, let's bring a third person in their relationship, and then they'll like, whoa, that did not work out. We did not like how that felt, or I didn't like how it felt, particularly

since you're still sleeping with her or whatever it is. Those are less likely to show up in my office than the ones that go, I don't know what happened. We haven't had sex. And I mean, I will ask as one of the main questions like what's going on, how many kids, how long have you been married, are you in therapy? And I say, what's your sex life like?

Because so many people will say, not good, we haven't had sex in like two years. I'm like, what? Yeah. How is this just come, you know, or I can't believe that she's cheating on me. Really, when was the last time you had sex? Like six months ago, well, what, believe it. Where do you think you're gonna go get it, right?

Right? And at the refrigerator's been empty. Where do you think they're gonna go eat? You work from food there, you work cooking the whole thing. So, as your ever couples that come to you and say, actually, the sex is amazing, but we can't get along with anything else. We still want to have sex.

Yes, I mean, it's interesting, like you said, that first meeting, watching. Remember, I don't usually meet with both couples unless I'm joining mediation. I mean, both parties, I'll meet with one or the other, but there are some that will say, the sex was never the problem. Sex is fine, that wasn't the problem,

but our communication with regard to other things is the problem. And I've had people that I can't get a finite data separation, which is a big deal in California, because that's when you actually stop the clock running when you stop having to split proceeds from projects when you stop having to have a clock on spousal support because they keep sleeping together.

And that's one of the indicators of whether or not a person is a complete irreconcilable, irremityable break in the marriage, but they're still having sex all the time. So what happens? So do you think that they have you seen couples like what we're actually going to get back together? We're calling this off. I see people get back together. I see people get back together because that chemistry is so amazing. I see people work out other things. Okay, we're not going to get back together, but we really still like dating. Or we like hooking up with each other or whatever. It's rare, but it does happen. And I'm like, go for it.

Why not? It works, right? You ever see people who are like more, they open it, like more alternative relationships since you've been doing this long time. People, man, I don't know if they get into it with you. I guess I'm the one at the dinner party. You're the dinner party and they're like asking you

about like divorces or, you know, they're specific. How can I hide my money? How can I hide my money? How do I have my money? Exactly. But people are like, oh my god, how do we get our sex? So I'm hearing like we opened it up or we're open relationships more and more than I did before. Right. Like 10 years ago or 5 years ago, even people like, there's no way. I couldn't imagine my part of all the people are freaks.

They have ponytails or like hippies. I mean, no, actually people do open relationships and it can work. And it can work. Again, I don't see this. You know, I have heard about it too. I think it's fascinating. I do too. I think it makes, I mean, if you have the break communication, because maybe we're not meant to, to mate forever. I don't, I don't think we are. What about this concept of starter marriages? That's still thing. Do you think that people just getting married younger and that they're getting in over with? They're like, I kind of

knew it and then they're getting afterwards. They're I think I think with the advent of more working women, I think we're seeing that last. I think that it was always our culture raises particularly girls and young women to get into a relationship, start dating seriously, get that ring, plan the wedding, have kids. I mean, still no matter what we've all been through with the the women's movement, that's still somehow embedded into our brains. But I definitely am seeing more women taking control of their financial situation, and many of them going, like, I'm not in such a big rush to get married, particularly since I'm the breadwinner here, I'm totally cool just living with you, because the idea of having to pay use-puzzles support kills me.

This is what I'm seeing now. Now more and more, what we see is that it's all the studies that everyone is delaying marriage and they're not rushing right into it, which I kind of think I mean, I think that's really smart for us to wait. I think that we're not seeing, um, realizing like we are the breadwinners women. We don't, we don't need it. We don't need it. But again, we live in a bubble.

I think that the New York and California are a bit more bubbly in that way. And I think that the rest of the country you still have people going like, this is my eyes are on the prize. My prize is I want to graduate from my school or college and I want to get married. I want to have that wedding. That's true.

And I still meet people like that, like my assistant here. She's like, dying to get married. She's like, what? Like, if she wants to be in the badge, so you're right, we earn this bubble, but I still think that it's smart, it's really good to get to know yourself

before you jump in a marriage, no matter what age it is. Speaking of whether they end or people say together, what I love is enlisting to your podcast, you said something in the beginning about how we look at divorces, like it's this horrible, I mean, it sucks, divorce socks is our podcast.

But also, it can also be like a new chapter, it's an evolution, it doesn't have to be this horrible thing in the sense of the way you look at yourself. Like I'm a failure. Exactly, and that, I mean again, even if there are people who are dying to get married, I am nothing against marriage. What I have a problem with is people who completely burn down the house when the marriage ends.

You got married, look, I love that I got married. I think everybody should have that white dress moment. It was beautiful. I was 25. I'll never be thinner than I was. At that point, it was great. Got great pictures. And I'm glad I did that.

And I'm glad I had that relationship. When it was done, it wasn't like, oh, it's done. Yeah, it was sad. Any breakup is going to be sad. And if you have kids, it'll be complicated. If you have a lot of assets, it'll be complicated. But work through it. I agree with you.

That's why we have. It's over easy. That's why we created the evolution of dissolution, which is the evolution of dissolution. Trying to get people to approach divorce differently in our culture, because the fact is, so many people go through more than one significant relationship or marriage.

When we only lived until we were 30, it made sense. We're living until we're 9,100, it doesn't make sense anymore, and to enable to have our kids be healthy, well-adjusted individuals, for us to be healthy and well-adjusted, you have to be able to say, goodbye to that relationship, move on, not burn bridges, not burn the house down,

and then restart, reset, new chapter, new relationship. It actually, if you think about it, if you're a human in your 90s, and you've had like three or four significant relationships, love affairs, relationships, whatever, aren't you like a more interesting, like person to listen to in the old age home? Don't you wanna hear her story?

What the sex story? You know the one who's had the interesting things, you're absolutely right, we're just not, but we're still catching up to it too. And it's taken a really long time. We are still in family law dealing with the same issues that like, I don't know if you remember the movie Cramer versus Cramer,

so Noah Bombak has a movie coming out called Marriage Story. It's the follow up, I mean, his life to the squid and the whale, which is like really documents kind of his own childhood divorce story. And so many of us that grew up in the 70s and 80s. So now this is kind of the next phase. I'm really excited to see it. Scarlett, show Hanson, Adam Driver, Laura Dern,

and I think Alan Alda, they play the lawyers and then Scarlett and Adam are the divorcing couple. And it really, you know, we're talking about it more. He spoke to a lot of people about their experiences. People are afraid to talk about it. It's like, so taboo. And unless you're actually getting divorced, you don't want to have anything to do with it.

Exactly. We're putting it out there. The same way you're putting sex out there, we're putting divorce out there. You have to. So 50% of marriages we say at a divorce, which I think is true, which is true. Still accurate.

I was like, not a great staff. Right. I don't sign me up for it. Okay, but tell me figure out how to work it. I'm not really ready for it, but you just took me back to Cramer versus Cramer, which came out in 78, which was the year my parents got divorced. So I'm sitting in there in the theater, and I just remember it was like, okay, at least I'm not alone, right? You still didn't know yet, but these days you're right.

We aren't talking about it, just like, oh, they got divorced. And they're having the same issues and attorneys. And again, I'm not casting as Persians on any of my colleagues, but there is a little bit of weirdness about the fact that we're still having the same arguments writing the same briefs talking to the same judges or even new younger judges about the same things. Why should it be that the kid shouldn't have access to both of his or her parents?

Why should only the mom have custody and then the dad comes over on Wednesdays, takes you for a fast dinner, gives you too much caffeine and candy, brings you back home again, or has a sleep over my life. Right. It was very nice though. Makes no sense to me. But is that what they're saying? Because what I think, and this is my question, aren't I feel like now that it's mostly 50-50 in California? But I have people that I've spoken to because now that we's mostly 50 50 in California but I have people that I've spoken to because now that we're national friends are

divorced with California with it's over easy and even in California I'll have mom's come to me and go well he's not getting 50 50 custody me totally slept with somebody else I'm like well that doesn't make him a bad dad it just makes him a dick I mean like exactly right exactly so how cuz I think it makes so much more sense that you of course course you should, I wish I had my my dad died too when I was 19. It's like, I wish I had more than Wednesday nights. So what is it now?

Tell me about how it's over easy is changing that for kids and for the parents. So it's a healthier experience overall, because I think that's what you have done in your own relationships and helping your clients. So tell me about that. A lot of it's education. We have an entire content section that has people writing articles, whether it's mental health professionals, financial specialists, people telling you, here's how it's going to look, here's how it could be best, here's what's best for your

kids. If you sit so many people say to me, how do I talk to my kids about telling them we're getting divorced? We've got like four articles about talking to your kids about getting divorced. We have four or five articles, how to deal with your ex, how to deal with a crisis with your ex. If one of your kids gets caught vaping or smoking pot in school or the kids going away to camp or having anxiety, you guys are the parent. You still have to be a united front and tell this kid, we are here for you, we are your family, we love you. That conversation about, hey, we're splitting up.

So many kids, it's crazy to me because this was not my experience. I don't know about you. I wonder if it's me. Is this okay? Oh, yeah. We blame ourselves. You've got to tell your kids like, no, this is not about you. This is about us.

And it's not even so much about us. We just hit this point. And we're still a family. We're going to be living in separate places. We have each other's backs. We're all going to do stuff together. If anything ever good or bad comes up, you come to both of us. We're going to talk about it.

How is that after all these years since Kramer versus Kramer not evident? I don't know. I mean, this is okay. So, when looking at your site, so people can go there and say, like, how do I have the conversation? You provide all of that. Yes. All of those resources.

That is so friggin smart. So, did you write, did you have work with therapists or you worked with townspeople? Yes. I wrote a lot of the articles and then because I've been in this business for so long, I know a lot of people. So, I'll go, hey, write me an article for my insights blog about how to sit down Dr. Kit and then also because now we've been up for a while people will write in to us and go I had this horrible Experience can I write about it on the blog?

So we have one that's called co-parenting with an asshole and that's about that's about what I mean it is I can't be so polyannish like everybody's all gonna gonna get on. There's gonna be jerks out there. Or you just need a package on the narcissist. The narcissist. Yes, I mean, it happens. So what do you do now? Because if you really can't meet in the middle, now what do you do?

How do you handle it the best way possible for yourself and for your kids? So that's really, I mean, I love that it's like a one-stop shop for it, because really, people are calling me, how do I have the conversation or what I do or what's right. So it would make sense. I mean, I think this is actually brilliant.

And then it also has what we call the index, which is kind of so you can go on, get content, read about things, watch videos. You can actually do all the forms, fill them out and get divorced. And then we've got the index, which is a directory, a provider directory for anything that you could imagine before, during after getting divorced,

whether it's something as in-depth as, hey, I really need to find a new accountant because my, or I need new health insurance, it's not available anymore through my spouse's employer to I'm getting back out there and I'm dating. I need help rearranging my closet. I need help. I need a spray tan.

I'm going on my first dating update. I need a spray tan. Here's the spray tan person. They're the best ones. On your site, on the sofa, eat this. I mean, I look right now looking, co-parenting with a nasshole. Right.

Can I lose child for smoking weed, which I get this, my everyone's terrified. We just did the weed podcast yesterday with my friend Alexis Steinberg, who is a cannabis attorney. And so we talked about all that stuff. And then you? No, you can't.

But you could, if you actually, somebody called Child Protective Services, I mean, the law is the last thing to change. So it's not illegal in California after Prop was it 64, but still you can have a judge that looks at you and goes, yeah, I don't think you're a very good parent. You left those animals lying around. And even though he's she didn't pick them up and eat them, not so good. Or you did get pulled over for driving while smoking because you're not allowed to do that. And so now it shows your judgment. It's not very good. And I'm not going to let you have the kids.

That's, that's, oh God. 10, 10, 10, 10 talks that anyone considering divorce should watch. I love that you're giving this all this information here. This is amazing. I'm just looking at the blog. They're not know this. So because, so then what happens is, is if they go to,

it's over easy, and they can start the process. But throughout, it's almost like you're holding their hand, but like the articles and things. There's someone online, someone can, they can reach out to someone for help or for resource. So what are some of the things? Oh, so in doing this process, are you saying now because we are all about like, it's an evolution and why should we all be great parents and you know, going to Palto with her whole conscious and coupling?

Yes. And I do, like even my brother got divorced from his wife and they are in Michigan and they do the 50-50 thing, but they're a block apart. It's a really great divorce. We all go out together and celebrate everyone's, you know, my niece's graduations, but that's not the case for everybody.

How does it's over easy kind of encouragement? People are like, he's an asshole, he did this. How does it do, but you just, I think, recommend it. Recommending and also showing by example, like yes, your spouse cheated on you or your spouse has a gambling problem and gambled away all your money. It's not.

So it's going to be hard to be like, hey, we're united front. We love each other. You can still hate his guts, okay? But until you're able to kind of let go of that, you don't have to get back together with them, but you have to be able to co-parent with them. So many people come to me and go, can I just make her go away? No, she's not going away. If you have cancer there or you have some kind of to cope with them. So many people come to me and go, can I just make her go away? No, she's not going away.

If you have kids with her, or you have some kind of a partnership financially, she's not going away. So let's figure out the best way of dealing with her, not because, not even because of your kids, because of you. And here's what I say mostly to my women clients, which is if you have that anger frown,

you're going to look ugly and old sooner, and then you're not going to want to date anybody else, they're not going to want to do it. So it gets down to just pure aesthetics. That's one of the ways you don't want to hold on to that angle. Not the ugly frown. Right. Now I heard you're saying, right?

Yeah, no, it makes sense. But then I would feel like with you, you're coming in, you're hearing everything. To get them out of that space, sometimes you must be like, okay, your therapist point my next, because you would turn into that role. Right. Well, again, most of the clients that I have in my private practice because they're wealthy and because they live in Southern California

have been in some kind of therapy. Couples therapy, kid therapy, co-parenting therapy, or their own. I can just say this is a better conversation to have with your therapist and they know that. So the therapist usually is less expensive too. But on its over easy, we create this community so that they can actually hook up with other people going through it, find support groups, find blogs, find therapists.

I mean, we have low-cost therapists that we refer to that, you know, again, it's out of our hands. Just, here's a guide, here's a directory, call them. And this, I think, is a really important part of the divorce process because it does hurt. It is difficult. It is. It just sounds like it's a whole more of a holistic approach, because otherwise you just

call on your friends, who did you use in your skin around. Like, I've had so many people say, I'm going through divorce. Like, who do I talk to? Who's the lawyer? And people always recommend a two-centred L.A. But I know they might not be able to have you, but now they can go on your site. That's right. It makes sense.

It's over easy. That's really smart. Alright, guys. We're going to take a quick break. And we come back even more with Laura Wasser. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ So going back to social media for a second, I'm just curious about this. Do you think, because you've been doing it for 25 years,

I think you're right that some of the same problems with people who have always been cheating. That's always been happening. But do you think that there's more so that people are like using it as evidence or they're cheating or they're like, do you see more careful? Are there certain, like, do you have any advice for people like what they shouldn't be doing

or what they should be doing online? Okay, so we usually at the beginning of every case, we send out a letter saying you must not erase or delete any of your drives or whatever else because a lot of that. And again, California's a no-fault state. So it's not about the cheating. It's about like moving the money.

We need to see the footprint of where the money went. Usually, we'd have people coming in with forensic accounts and huge boxes of documents. Now it's all online, but people will try to delete stuff or get rid of stuff. And I also think that people getting divorced don't realize what it is that's important and not important. I mean, I have so many people say, I need a good private investigator. And I'm like, why? I need to see if he's cheating.

Why? I mean, if you need to see for your own self, fine. But for me, I don't need to see it because California is a no-fault state. So it makes no difference. But yeah, I think a lot of people are really not very savvy when it comes to what they're doing, or if you're having a big dispute about child support.

Oh, he really should be paying me more child support, and I know that he's able to. Well, how do you know that? Well, I'm on his Instagram page. He's driving a new car. He's in Cabo with his new blonde girlfriend. Now I'm on her Instagram page, and she just bought new boobs.

And she doesn't have any money, so it must've come. So he can't pay child support because he's doing this. So then what do you do with that? Well, then you can use that for evidence, and you can say like child's work because he's doing this. Right. So then what do you do with that? Well, then you can use that for evidence and you can say like His evidence, that's true. Sure.

Like you, like you, you know, Not the booze, not the fairy life. You gotta get the boobs back, but right, though, that makes so much sense. I would think that that would be so much more incriminating evidence that you would not have seen in the past. Yeah, you let people into your life when you make it public. And so therefore, you're open to that kind of examination. That is, that makes so much sense. Okay, so I always say, and what I believe to be true,

is that the three main causes of divorce are typically arguments in a relationship are sex and kids and money. I think that makes sense. I think I actually read an article the other day that had like six of them, but those were the three. Okay, so you see, and would you, is there anything that you see like,

I know that you're not the therapist, but in sitting in there that maybe this could have been resolved had they, I guess it's all about fucking therapy, having therapy early on or communicating about it. Getting good communication. And I always say this to couples like, you should be doing therapy when you're getting along. Yeah. When things are good, because that will help you get an aridham and establish.

It's like going to the gym. You want to start going to the gym when you're healthy. Then if something happens, you get an injury, whatever, you know how to get back in there and get back into shape. It's the same with this. You learn those tools in therapy to communicate and for sure with the sex and the money. One of the reasons people have issues with those two items is that they don't know how to talk about them. Now, I will tell you this, people are more likely to talk

about sex than they are about money, particularly women. They will talk about sex. They do not want to talk about money, which I find so strange. You need to talk about these things. This is your spouse. Right. And they're like, my mom's a financial planner. So, Shoei says, like, sometimes a spouse will die. Like, the husband will die. Let's just say it's in these heteronormative relationships. And the wife has never looked at money, didn't know where it was, isn't know what's happening. And so, why do you think it is money? Again, it's because that wife that you're talking about that hypothetical wife, she was the princess. And so she was in the castle and she never had to worry about anything. And her prince would go out and shoot the deer and bring home the food

and whatever it was. Come on. That is just not a good way to be. We have a surprise. You need to know. You can be a princess and still know what bank accounts are. Exactly. I have people that come in all of them.

Sophisticated, gorgeous women, they have their personal shoppers that need them to market as they could have a reservation at any restaurant in town. They go to the shows in Paris and I say, okay, so how much does your spouse make every or no idea? How much the mortgage obligation, if any, on your home, no idea. And they say, I'm so embarrassed. I don't know any of this. I said, don't be embarrassed.

It must be nice. It has to be really scary right now. Yeah. So then, what would be your advice then? Like how do we have them just pull off the shield? I know you're afraid about walking into this money conversation, but it has to happen. It would save us so much.

It also I feel would keep people more together because if you feel like you have a partner in these financial good times and bad times, okay? Because again, people go through good and bad. If you have a partner, this is the person whom you lay down to sleep with every night, who you are having intimate sexual relations with, hopefully, who you've raised children with, which are generally going to be the most important item in your life, kids, how to raise them, keeping them happy. Why wouldn't this be the person that you say, hey, we just had a huge win, fall this year, or

hey, I'm suffering. Like, and I see so many people will argue because she's spending too much. And I'm really, really stressed out about it. Well, how was she supposed to know that she's spending too much? If you haven't let her in on any of the secrets of what is being earned, and it's community money, it's her money. Well, it could be so obviously because men feel like less of a man, less of a man, less mask, and you know, make money, you's her money. Right, well, it could be so obviously, because men feel like less of a man, less of a man, less of a mask,

and we don't make money, we always feel like you're castrated, so we're just trying to say, honey, we got a curtail at here, and then it just becomes a whole mess. But every relationship, as you know, is a deal. At every relationship, both people have things that they bring to the table.

That will change in the course of relationships, but that's the relationship. So you see these stereotypical older, wealthy Hollywood guy, not super attractive, young, trophy, what would they have a deal? That's the deal. And if she does put on 100 pounds or he does lose all his money, it's not saying it's going to end, but the deal changes. It does change. So, okay, so what are some things that you've seen with people not getting divorced? I'm sure you have somebody ideas about what are the things that people should just figure out about each other before they walked on the aisle.

Like what should we know? Well, again, I don't believe that everyone should have a prenup, but I believe that everyone should have a prenup conversation. Now there's certain things that you could actually contract about. You could- Do you have that on, it's over easy? Yes. We don't, because you need an attorney to have a prenup.

But there is a company that we have an affiliation with called prenapta. And they're on our prenapta. And you can actually call prenapta or go online and find prenapta. They will help you draft the agreement. And then they'll give you an attorney who at a very low price can sign off on it.

So now you've checked the box you got there, but when you get married, you are entering into a contract. You may not know the terms because you don't know what the law is in your state, which baffles my mind, know the law in your state. But then the other thing, so you know that without a prenup, everything that you earn or if you're a painter and you paint a painting after you're married, that painting is half your spouses. If you earn money, any of those things but for what you inherit or is gifted to you, that's gonna be community property in a state like California.

You also are gonna be responsible for paying spousal support to that person so that they can live in the lifestyle to which they became accustomed during the marriage for a certain period of time and child support. Okay, so now we know that. If you don't ever pre-knop, that's the rules. What other rules do you need to know?

Hey, my parents are older and I never wanna put them in assisted living, so they're probably going to live with us one week when they get older. Are you okay with that? Hey, it's really important that my kids go to private school. I don't want them going to public school. Are you okay with that? Hey, I want to make sure that you know that I'm probably not going to go back to work after I have kids. I just don't want to. I can't imagine being a working mom. I want to stay home. And again, it'll change. You may actually have kids and go get me the after I have kids. I just don't want to, I can't imagine being a working mom. I want to stay home. And again, it'll change. You may actually have kids and go get me the fuck outta here.

I gotta get back to work. Having those conversations, those are things you should know. How much debt is there? People get married, whenever pre-knop, you have to disclose everything. So you know, people get married. 10 years in, you go, oh, by the way, I've been using my community money

that's whole time to pay down my law school debt. Nobody knew. Wow. I never thought about a pre-knop in this way, but it been using my community money that's whole time to pay down my law school debt. Nobody knew. Wow. I never thought about a prenup in this way, but it's like a truth teller, like a true serum. Like if you all left to sit down with a prenup, you got to answer these questions, and it's almost like, it's going to be required.

And I'm telling you that the prenup side has done even the really difficult ones. Those people have stayed together. They may not like what they're hearing, and it may take the bloom off the rose a little bit, but by the time they get married, they have some truths that I think help them throughout their marriage. There's not any huge surprises. And there've been a couple where once you get into the weeds, they go, you know what, I don't like what I'm seeing here and we're not going to get married.

But that's what I would think. I would be that one next step. Like, I just think it's way too easy to get married too. So why not have this pre-naught? Maybe we have to rebrand the name pre-naught. But just something about, because you know in certain religions, there's a counselor in the church. Yes, absolutely. So I'm making it over eight weeks.

That should be certain protocols that are required before you walk down the aisle. And I love that you're just asking those tough questions about money and I'm all about like sex too. I mean like things that you guys, you know, I'm kind of developing a, I have something in my site called a yes-no maybe list but we want to make it a little more sophisticated but you could actually

look at a bunch of different sex acts and see where you would both be into spanking how great or no or maybe or kink and that's brilliant. Yeah and then you're like, okay, let's see where our yeses are and our maybe is rather than getting into a relationship of finding out that you just cannot And common ground was sex either right so the money thing could be the prenup the sex thing could be this yes No, maybe a little more advance, but because even like for so was sex do you ever find out if they get in this to you

If have you ever found that there's something like someone's got way into kink. Yeah, that way into bdsm or something else And they're like I am not this is not my jam, I'm out. Yeah, and that has been an issue. And then he or she goes elsewhere. Now that's a question. Can I put up with that? If I don't want to do this, but my spouse really does,

and he or she is not having an emotional attachment, but you know, once a week they go to the dominatrix and that's really important and whatever. Sometimes they make it work. I know a lot of couples who have made that work and I feel like it's just getting past that fear, that this belief that we have that sex is supposed to be monogamous in person for the rest of your life. Who is that really, really working for without a lot of struggle and a lot of effort? I mean, I think a lot of our listeners have like, oh my god, I was able to effort 20 years.

Now we got our sex life back for a lot of people. They won't get it back to where it was, but maybe it's okay to say once a week, my partner's gonna go to Dominator because I'm gonna go get a massage or happy ending. And it seems so crazy to people, but how much better is it to get your needs met? And then you still can come home with your partner

and have a better. And also, if you think about it, a lot of this comes from the forbiddenness of it. So if what it is, estuperalded a whole thing, and like when you're lying to your partner, there's something about it that like feels good to you or whatever, I said to my boyfriend very early on, because it's true.

I don't care if all of you go to strip clubs, it doesn't like offend me or bother me. And I also don't care if you go and get happy ending at any point, and he goes, you totally ruined it for me. I never want to do those things. And I was like, I'm sorry. But again, if that's what it is, then that's a part of it too. Yeah.

It's exactly. I had a friend of mine who was getting married like, um, I was like 10 years ago. And he said to me, I'm freaking out because I just, I know myself and I know I might be able to, someday I'm just might want to do something. I said, well, just tell her that you need a hall pass. The teller said, you know, I'm not saying right now, but at some point, maybe I'll be out of town or something's gonna happen.

And she said, yes, she gave me a hall pass and he was like so much, he was able to like get married. I don't know what to have and check in with him lately, but it was like something. I didn't end up in this story. I need to know what happened. Well, here's the thing I should call him. Yeah, I should ask him to show up right now.

But I think he has, you know, I think I did run into a few years ago and he's like it just been an idea. He was visiting Sanford, just because like whatever happened and because I used to live there and he's like, yeah, I think he's done it when he's traveling or he's in Vegas, but she's cool. It was an arrangement, which kind of the opposite of what you're saying, but it's like you took it away from me. Right.

But there's both sides of the go. Absolutely. This part though. I think that people, yes, some people do because kind of find that, that's sexy, that sort of titillating and the forbidden. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so much fun.

It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so much fun.

It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so I don't want to be with her. I want to be with you. And then what happens, oh, can they get back together?

Sometimes they can't, sometimes they can't. Sometimes the person who the cheated on party is like, I just can't ever be with you again after that. And sometimes they're like, okay, good. It just depends. And what about kids? How can we go back to that for a minute? When we're talking about like it's using, it's over easy.

If they use your, your, your online platform. And you said that most people, a lot of you are coming in and I was saying, I don't want my spouse ever to see my kid again only on Wednesdays. Does it all break it down per state? Because now you just went nationwide with it. So that's the big news because you started, you said last year, we started it in January of 2018.

And now already in a year, it's spread into every, because that state has different laws around it. And so the states don't have laws about custody. Okay. Like, oh, it should only be 30% for data or whatever. It's just, I think, a different subjective what the trend is and what judges will do. We believe that countrywide, it is best for kids that they are exposed to both of their parents equally.

Now, again, that may not work for some people. They may live in different counties and it may be too hard. You don't want the kid in the car, two hours every day or whatever, and sometimes people live across country from each other, so you can't do that. But we really do believe, and I do think that is the trend

with mental health professionals and with family, large judicial officers. It just takes a little longer to get to those places. So what we do, again, because we're more of a mediation website is, we give people the information, we say what could happen if you go to court, and then we show them calendars, particularly for their kids, because it's different. If you've got little kids, generally mental health professionals believe it's better for them to see, have more frequent

and continuous contacts. So do two days, two days, three days, or two days, two days, five days. Whereas older kids, they've got all the stuff and they're schlepping it back and forth, you could do week on week off with older kids and maybe do a one night during the week to see other parent. It depends what works best for the family. I guess the kids are the family, yeah. What about when people have one home and they go back to the home? Nesting. Yeah. That's usually it's called nesting. And it's usually better for like a short term or a transition, like you've got a family residence, you're probably that's your

most valuable asset, and you can't sell it just yet. So you get either one or two apartments, or somebody stays with a friend or whatever, and the kids stay in the house. And the kids, that's really good a lot of times for kids, if the parents, that's a huge inconvenience for the parents. Ooh, which I friends have done it,

I don't think it's worked very well. It doesn't work for long term. I mean, I've read about couples, like there's a couple in Canada that has like two different like, you know, kind of add-ons, but the kids are in the house and they have doors and everything to the same house and it's worked for a long time

and I think they did a documentary. For the most part, it's a good transition and it shows the kids, we're all here, you don't have to be uprooted, you don't have to be moved and now we're gonna see how this works. Because imagine if you aren't the primary parent If you're the parent that basically comes home from work each day at five or six Has dinner spends a little time with the kids maybe gets up with them in the morning

But you're not the one that's scheduling a dental appointments doing the play dates, you know, whatever and so all of a sudden Now you've got your separate residents which is apartment house whatever and you've got the kids all to yourself on the start Like it's a lot so if you could swallow that smaller bite size pieces, living in their same house, where you actually know where the pasta is capped and whatever, then you could probably more easily transition out. And then that's better for your kids too. Yeah.

Since you are the celebrity divorce attorney, let's talk about celebrity divorces. Because we're seeing them being a little more and weakable. We're definitely seeing a trend with celebrities, really, whether it's true or not, putting on a great face and showing the rest of the world, starting with their children and working all the way out, that they are still

going to be friends, that they are still going to cope here, that they can sometimes vacation together. They're not going to have a big war in court together. You're not going to read about this in the newspaper, except that, hey, we really still love each other and we're family. But what that does for our culture is it trickles down. We all want to be like the celebrities. Exactly.

So we're going to consciously on couple and we're going to, I think it was gently separate, was another one of them. I mean, we're going to live by that example. And I think that's great for everybody. That's directly in line with what it is that I'm trying to do, which is be nicer to each other, be kind. You're co-pregnated, too, because I still hear

these stories nowadays, even from friends or people call into the show, they're like, one of the parents is trashing the other parent to the kids, and that's just going to have devastating impact on the kids. Like, my parents didn't do that. That was rare. That was rare at the time. So now it's good to see that the celebrity divorces are actually. Pretend you're that celebrity and fake it till you make it.

And eventually that you will start being like that. Yeah, because you let you at one point you love each other and you have family. So don't make it hell. If you can do it. So it's over easy. I love this. I just such a great resource. So people can just go to it's over easy.com. Even if they're thinking about divorce, to see there's no commitment, you can play around on the site, you can give us your information if you'd like, but you don't have to. We are there to educate you and give you information. If you decide that you want to get divorced and you want to pay for the site and get divorced, it's $1500. And again, we've figured out in the United States, the average divorce costs $15,000.

So if you figure you can get your entire divorce for $1500, that would be awesome. And then we also have all these resources, which yes, those guys might got used to more if you want to get the spray tan or you want to get the financial planning or the health insurance or whatever it is. We have moving companies. I mean, we have all kinds of great resources for people going through it. An amazing service, which is called Worthy, where you can sell your engagement ring online. We have partnerships with the real reals so that you can get your closet cleaned out, sell some of that stuff, buy some new stuff to get back out there again.

All of these things, all of these professionals and businesses we have on the index. So smart because they might have even thought about it. They're like, oh, that's a good way to get money. Right. You know what I mean? So yeah, no, I mean, I just, I don't think there's anything else like this that I know of. It's very smart, Laura Wasser.

I'm happy for you. And now you've been podcasting, what have you learned on the podcast or what have you enjoyed it's been a year, right? Yeah, I totally different than being a lawyer. It's totally different from being a lawyer. I love it because the reason that I stayed being a family of attorneys, I love the stories.

And I also love kind of bringing people together and helping people. I like talking to people who are really excellent in their field and having them give me like the top five things that they would tell people and people love sharing that information. So telling their stories and then telling their specialties and what they do, bringing people together, educating people about it, I, that's why I've been loving doing this podcast. And again, whether it's, you know, a celebrity that's willing to share his or her story about divorce or co-parenting or whatever else, or it's a professional that's willing to come out and go, look, this

is what you really need to know before you file a divorce petition. You have to get these five financial documents in place and whatever. Or somebody that says, this is how your kids are going to feel when you sit down and talk to them. Hey, there it is. It's all out there. It's free. Listen, tell us what you think. That's been really cool for me. Yeah, I think it is a great service because we do, it's something that we feel very lone

and very shameful in many parts of this world. It just like seems like a horrible thing. So to listen to you having the light conversations, like, and so more serious, and then hearing how the celebrities did it and kind of like the Chloe. I mean, she was like, yeah, we do. We co-parent. We do it. It all works out.

And then I'm going to go back to the narcissist one real quickly. What was interesting is you said on your podcast that like five years ago, it was bipolar and then before that I was psychopathetic. So do you think that that just because I do feel like narcissists as a buzzword now? Right. Now, it's narcissists and crazy. Everybody calls me and says, so here's what you believe, you know, my spouse is a narcissist and I'm like, oh, really?

I mean, everybody says that, no, again, sometimes really they are. I don't know. It doesn't matter to me if your spouse is a narcissist or not. Five years ago, I just would have called it an asshole. Bipolar asshole, psychopath asshole. Narcissist asshole, that's what we're dealing with. Not a single deal with that.

We're dealing with something that could be difficult. And we still want to figure out the best way to get you divorced with his little emotional and financial cost as possible. You said he'd bring it back to the business, all right? Thank you so much, Laura. I've, okay, so Laura Wasser, you can check out your podcast. Yes.

Divorce sucks. Yes. Wherever you listen to podcasts, they can go to, it's over easy. Yes. Get divorced really easier. Just find out if they showed it and the steps take. And since your friends, like, I feel like it's one of those things

it probably also you developed it because you're like, I don't want everyone calling me and asking me other questions on the top. I just got to the website. I just got to the website, which is really smart. So, okay, and I have five questions for you that we ask all of our guests. They're a quicky questions.

Okay, what is your biggest turn on? Kindness. Biggest turn off. Cheapness. How would you describe your relationship in your inner relationship? Three words. Lots of laughs.

Lapse. Lapse. I love it. Something you would tell one thing you would tell your younger self about sex. Oh, keep it up. Keep it going. Keep doing it. Number one, relationship tip.

Communicate. Even if it's not comfortable, communicate. All right. Thank you, Laura. We can find you at... we'll put this out the top of the show too, but it's over easy.com. Laura Wasser official is Insta, and the firm that I work with is Wasser Cooperman Mandel's Family Law, it's entry city, and yeah. It's all for easy. Okay, this will be the show notes. Thank you so much for being here.

Thanks, thanks for having me. All right, guys. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks, thanks for having me. Alright guys, thank you so much for listening to this show, supporting this show, and subscribing wherever you listen and leaving us a review. And thanks for sharing it with a friend who might find this also interesting. And thank you to my amazing team, Ken, Kristen, Michelle, producer, Jamie, and Michael. Was it good for you? Email me feedback at sexwithemily.com.