Sex With Emily - Getting Bi-Curious w/ Jen Winston

Episode Date: October 25, 2024

How do you know if you’re bisexual? Author Jen Winston helps me answer just that. In her book Greedy: Notes From A Bisexual Who Wants Too Much, Jen reveals how she came to terms with her bisexuality, in a world that loves to slap stereotypes on it: greedy, slutty, and constantly confused. Whether you’re a vulva owner in a heterosexual partnership who wants to explore same sex fantasies, or a penis owner who has recently come out as gay but still has thoughts about the opposite sex, Jen helps us all understand why sexuality is about so much more than who you’re sleeping with. Because after all, your sexuality is less about the destination and more about the journey to get there.  In this episode, you’ll learn: Labels like bi or pan are for you to explore your identity, not to please others Communication is everything. Talk openly with your partner about desires and fantasies to strengthen intimacy Bisexuality isn’t one-size-fits-all: It’s a personal journey, and questioning your sexuality is part of it Show Notes: Try the LELO ENIGMA Wave Today! (Use code "EMILY20" at checkout for an additional 20% OFF any existing sales.) More Jen Winston: Instagram | Twitter (X)  | Greedy: Notes From A Bisexual Who Wants Too Much Join the SmartSX Membership: Access exclusive sex coaching, live expert sessions, community building, and tools to enhance your pleasure and relationships with Dr. Emily Morse. Yes! No! Maybe? List & Other Sex With Emily Guides: Explore pleasure, deepen connections, and enhance intimacy using these Sex With Emily downloadable guides.  SHOP WITH EMILY! (free shipping on orders over $99) The only sex book you’ll ever need: Smart Sex: How to Boost Your Sex IQ and Own Your Pleasure Want more? Visit the Sex With Emily Website  Let’s get social: Instagram | X | Facebook | TikTok | Threads | YouTube Let’s text: Sign up here Want me to slide into your email inbox? Sign Up Here for sex tips on the regular. See the full show notes at sexwithemily.com

One of my friends asked me if writing my book, like if the responses I had gotten made me think that everyone was bisexual, but it's actually made me think the opposite. It's made me think it's a very unique experience to be bisexual. And if you think you're bisexual, you probably are, like you might not be, but that's what I usually tell people is like, if you're like, am I bi? Am I not bi? Like that's what I usually tell people. Is like, if you're like, am I bi, am I not bi? Like that's a bisexual thing to do. You're listening to Sex with Emily.

I'm Dr. Emily and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around sex. So question for you, how do you know if you're bisexual? Well, author Jen Winston helps me answer just that. In her book, Greedy, Notes from a Bisexual Who Wants Too Much, Jen reveals how she came to terms with her bisexuality in a world that loves to slap stereotypes on it. You're greedy, you're slutty, and constantly confused. Whether you're a vulva owner in a heterosexual partnership who wants to explore same-sex

fantasies or a penis owner who has recently come out as gay, but still has thoughts about the opposite sex. We answer those questions and more in this episode. And Jen helps us all understand why sexuality is about so much more than who you're sleeping with. Please rate and review Sex with Emily wherever you listen to the show. It helps get the show out to more people and it just takes you a few seconds to do it.

You can just do it right now. Look at your phone, look at your app that you're listening to this on and review us. We to do it. You can just do it right now. Look at your phone, look at your app that you're listening to this on and review us. We so appreciate it. You can also find me on Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, Twitter, Orax and Facebook, all the places. It's all at Sex with Emily. My new articles, How to Master Eagle Position

and Your False Sex Bucket List are both up on SexWithEmily.com. Before we dive into the episode, if you haven't heard the news, I have to tell you about my brand new membership community, Smart SX. It is officially live, and I've had a blast the last few weeks.

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Jen Winston, She, Her, They, Them is a writer and bisexual whose work focuses on dating, queerness and the millennial condition. They are the author of the book Greedy, notes from a bisexual who wants too much, which Paper Mag wrote that Jen's debut is at once relatable, laugh out loud, funny, and refreshingly illuminating. Buzzfeed named Greedy a best LGBTQ book of 2021.

You can follow Jen on Twitter, Instagram, and alas, TikTok at Jennerous with a J. Jen Winston, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. This is great. So great. We have so many people who need your help today. We're going to talk about a big topic that you are the expert in.

We're talking about bisexuality. Yes, it's my favorite topic and it's something that people do not talk about very much. And growing up, I needed people to talk about it for me to be able to come out as bi. And so I'm trying to talk about it for me to be able to come out as bi. So I'm trying to talk about it as much as I can. People really don't, I suppose. I always think people don't talk about anything when it comes to sex. It's true. Bisexuality is particularly marginalized.

Well, I think there's so many reasons for that. They call it bi erasure. Everyone's probably heard that term. By erasure. By erasure. They don't know that everyone's heard that. And there's also by invisibility. It's so important for bi people to be out and name ourselves as bi because the label bisexual is so often erased. One thing that I like to

talk about is in the media, there are so many depictions of fluid sexuality. Those exist, which is great. There's not enough, but there are some. But a lot of times, those aren't named as bisexual. And that makes it seem like bisexuality is a behavior rather than an identity. And in my case, I was desperate to have queer sex and I couldn't make it happen for myself for a while. So I just thought I wasn't queer because I like couldn't close the deal.

And it's really interesting how like that action ends up helping you define yourself for worse, I guess in this case. You're right, there aren't a lot of depictions of it. We have a lot of people who also have questions about this all the time, like, where do I start? How do I come out? How do I know if I'm bisexual?

So what are some of the things that you're helping people break down? Like what would you say is like the top question you get asked about bisexuality? When I said I was writing a book on bisexuality, a lot of people were like, oh that's cool but isn't everyone bisexual? Like what are you going to say? The first time someone said that to me I was like that doesn't feel good and I don't know why. And then I thought about it and I realized it's because it implies that Bisexuality is not a big deal or it's not something worth talking about It's not an identity worth like living out loud For lack of a better cliche that would be the first thing I would say is like not everyone is bisexual In fact, one of my friends asked me if writing my book like if the responses I had gotten made me think that everyone was bisexual

But it's actually made me think the opposite. It's made me think it's a very unique experience to be bisexual. And if you think you're bisexual, you probably are, like you might not be, but that's what I usually tell people is like, if you're like, am I bi? Am I not bi? Like that's a bisexual thing to do. Why do you think the confusion exists where people think that everyone's bi, but they're not? Like does that come from just that sexuality is on a spectrum, like that's a bisexual thing to do. Why do you think the confusion exists where people think that everyone's bi, but they're not? Like, does that come from just that sexuality's on a spectrum, like the whole Kinsey scale, and then that gets confusing?

What do you think that comes from? Yeah, I think it's partially like due to that fluidity, but like technically, if you're not like a one or a six on the Kinsey scale, like you're somewhere in the middle, like you may not be bi, you may be like pan or queer. I personally think of the definitions of bisexuality and pansexuality is very similar. My bisexuality includes all genders

and I am attracted to all genders. But- How is it different than pansexuality then? It's really like the same. It's really the same. And pansexuality sort of emerged out of like the assumption that bisexuality was not gender inclusive and in some- Because it is binary in sensual.

Yeah, it has the bi, but a lot of there are a lot of different bi like not to get like fully into queer theory, but there's like a lot of bi scholars who will say that the bi and bisexuality refers to like the straight and gay communities that you find yourself between, or there are all these other binaries that it like plays off of. But my definition of bisexuality is that it's like somewhere in the liminal space between two options that weren't options I necessarily created myself. They were just things that were given to me. So it's about finding stability in that state of flux,

is what I say. Jen, I wanna make sure we answer some of these voicemails and I know your knowledge is gonna be a huge help to our listeners. This is from Bianca in Orlando. Hi, Dr. Emily. My name is Bianca. I am 26 years old. I live in Orlando, Florida and I am trying

to figure out if I may like women. So I feel a little bit curious and my partner is completely fine with it. My approach has been to get a few applications that I'm really not familiar with because I've been with my partner for seven years. My overall concern is, how do I start? Do I just make my move with someone? I even considered having my current partner meet her. I guess my thought is, where do I start? And how do I feel? I'm very attractive to women and I didn't know I was with me, which is something that is new to me this year. And just a little backstory, I've been with my partner for seven years. So it's a little bit shocking, but it is also fun because maybe I will experiment. I feel like my partner needs some assistance

with oral and perhaps that might be why I'm leaning towards being bicurious because perhaps they might be able to pleasure me in a way that he doesn't know how to. And I shared my podcast at Easter Channel with him and does he really listen to everything that I sent him? Probably not because some of them are long but hey I do because I enjoy it and it's your podcast is very educational and of course I want to receive pleasure and give pleasure so that's where I'm at. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Have a great rest of your evening.

All right, that is Bianca. Okay, she's 26 years old. So this is interesting. So she's been with a partner. I'm gonna assume that she's with a penis owner because she just says, my partner, my partner. So I'm gonna assume that that's, and she's he. What is it?

She said he, she did, she was he. Okay, but where do you start with, I think a lot of you are like, I think I'm bisexual, but I don't know, do I have to label myself before I have sex? Do I have to sex and then label myself? Does the label matter? What would you say here?

How can we help her? That is a really good question. And I think Bianca's question is like a huge one. One time I posted like an Instagram story question asking for bisexual women who were in relationships that presented as straight to tell me about their experience. And I got so many, more responses than I've ever gotten

to something like that. So many people are in that situation and don't know how to move forward. So the first thing I would say is Bianca is not alone at all. Second, I would say the in question is a big one. I think a lot of times people don't know if it's worth it to come out, especially if you don't even want to have sex with someone of the same gender or another gender.

If you don't want to do that, but you still feel like you're bisexual, like there's still a reason that you might want to come out to just like be your full self. And that's what I found was that it was like, it was so much more amazing to come out as bi than I thought it would be because I was like, this is not a big deal. Like it doesn't matter. It's really just like, I like to have threesomes. Like that's what I'm telling my coworkers now, I guess.

Like that's what I thought. But it really just helped me just feel like I could be my true self in so many situations. And there's another thing that happens with bisexuality where people often think that because you're bi, you want an open relationship. Like, if you're a woman in a relationship with a man and you say that you're bi,

the assumption might be that you want to go hook up with someone, but maybe you don't. Like maybe you just want to be yourself. So that's like why the overarching conversation really matters. So if you're a woman in a relationship with a man and you say you're bi, you're like, okay, well then I guess I could assume that you're open.

I could just assume that right now you've decided to be with this person, to be with a man and maybe give up. Like you can still be bisexual, but you're not going to act on it because you're not in an open relationship, but that's okay too. Like you could still, right? So there's this like interesting thing because like anytime you're in a monogamous relationship, you're like theoretically giving something up.

Like it's not exclusive to bisexuality. And there's this thing that happens with bisexuality where it becomes like the scapegoat for all these truths in the world. For example, greedy, being greedy, that's the title of my book, because that's a bisexual stereotype. But it's a stereotype that's like, it's only bad if you think being promiscuous is bad. So it's like, actually there's this deeper truth about the way we see sex that is reflected in the way we stigmatize bisexuality. Yeah, so too. So Greedy is your book. No one's a bisexual who wants too much. Why is it greedy? Because you're gonna have it all? Yeah, I

mean it's often said that bisexuals are just greedy. It's like and a lot of times... Who are these people? Yeah, I know. It's also like what's wrong with that? Like I think that's the bigger thing. The reason that I wrote my book is because a lot of times you see the bi community, which is not much of a community, which is a whole other thing. There aren't a lot of bi gatherings for bi people because of everything we've talked about. We're not very connected, although I love bi people. You probably are though.

I would feel like you're the priestess perhaps of the bi world. Yes. If you're looking for bi people. You probably are though. I would feel like you're like the priestess perhaps of the bi world. Yes, if you're looking for bi friends, you can call me. Bi friends, go check her out. She is your bi friend. I am here. There isn't a community, so then where do you start then? Like where would Bianca, cause she's like,

I just came to this realization. And I think like, I mean, where I would say like surround yourself with some like minded voices, find people on social media that you can follow. But I also had a really hard time, like, being able to have my first queer sexual experience because I was so in my head about it. And I was like, I don't deserve to be here.

I had like so much imposter syndrome. How did you get into that experience? Like, how do you start? Like, that's what I'm saying. Like, how did you just follow yourself? I was like so blunt. I like went up to- I love this.

I like went up to someone at a club and was like, I really need to like have queer sex. Like, are you interested? And the person was like, yes. And that was my first time. And the other was like a friend. So you just went up to someone. So you were bald. Like you just were like, I want to have sex. Yeah. Because I thought that it would help me understand who I was. And I think maybe that's something Bianca is also dealing with is like, if you can figure this thing out, then it might help you understand other parts of your marriage or your relationship. Yeah, I think the first thing I would say is like, talk to your partner. And if you feel like it's safe to come out to them and let them know that this is something you're interested in,

but also just part of who you are, that's a really important part of the coming out process, is to say that it's more than just a sexual desire, it's like who you are. And also, maybe it's not. I think she said she downloaded the apps and she tried with that. So is there an app that you recommend to people to kind of start playing? I mean, on all of them, you can like add your preferences. I found it was really difficult to have like casual sex with women because I got in my own head

about like how women deserve to be treated. And I was like, I can't like give a woman what she needs. So I can't be here. Well, I have a question though. This is the question that everyone everyone wants to know right now, I'm sure. So you had your first queer experience with someone, I mean, with a woman, vulva, okay.

So how did you know what to do? Vulva, I mean, no, because you have one, like you have a vagina. I mean, I've dabbled, so I've had my experiences and it was like, I'm trying to think. So how I would answer that is like, well, you kind of know your way, you're like, I have this, I've worked this.

But still, how did you feel in your experience? Oh my God, I was like so out of my element. There's a chapter in my book about how the way I masturbate is weird because I like lay on my stomach, which is not weird, I've learned. No, common. Common, yes, but I always was very insecure about it because I was like, this is not a hot way to masturbate.

Like, boo hoo. But I, because of that, I only know how to like work a specific type of vulva, or like a specific type of clitoris location. I was just very upfront about not knowing what I was doing. A lot of people like enjoy shepherding you. I think ultimately, and this is something my current partner, when we first started hooking up, I was like, I don is something my current partner, when we first started

hooking up, I was like, I don't really know what I'm doing. And they were like, it's the same. All sex is the same. And I thought that was really, really interesting because it helped me just kind of take all this gender and sexuality stuff out of it that I'd been so freaking out about over for like my whole life and just like live in the moment and communicate and like pleasure each other. And so, yeah. I kind of is the same. Like you might kiss, you might, it's arousal,

getting attracted, the energy builds. You don't go right to the channels. You should never do that anyway, which I always say, build up and then explore. Yeah. Play, Pay attention. Well, that's actually something that I really love about queer sex that I have learned is that and I was just reading this thing about story structure and plot and how it follows the arc of a, I say I was reading this thing, I was watching a TikTok. That's what you say now,

right? Exactly. But yeah, so I was watching a TikTok about story structure and it was like, traditional plot follows the arc of the male orgasm. It builds and then it tapers off. But then there's this push toward feminine story structure that's more like, there's a peak here and another peak here and a bigger peak here and you kind of have to invent it. And that's what I really love about my sex life now is it feels like there's not a script we follow and then we roll over and go to bed. And you can have this with any combination of genitals. I think queer sex is not exclusive to two people with the same genitalia. Like it's more of a like querying the idea of sex and like how can you really focus on what feels right?

The goal is not even orgasm. It's like stop and start and pleasure. It's not linear. It's okay if you both get to rouse and then they can make a sandwich, come back to sex. Maybe not, come back later. Like to me that's a hot. My kids got really hungry and then you come back to it. So very helpful. Thanks, Jen. Okay, should we get into another call here? Hi, Emily. My name is Katerina. I'm from Australia.

I'm 32 years old and I would consider myself a pansexual. Now my question is, I'm in a primary relationship with a man, but I'm also dating a woman. There is an end date for that though because she will be leaving soon. But I guess my question is I have a way deeper connection and intimate and the sex is a lot better with the female. So sometimes I feel disconnected in my main relationship with the man and feel like she doesn't understand that. I'm very transparent with both of them.

I guess you could say polyamorous. Yeah, so I guess how do I navigate that space and communicate with better and I guess reassure all partners, especially around things like jealousy. Yeah, it's a complex one, but I mean, I'm happy and I'm enjoying it. It would be awesome to talk to you more about it. Thank you. So she's a deeper connection now to the woman, to the female, and then feels disconnected from the man. First of all, her partner, I think she probably has learned a lot.

How do you bring that into the relationship with the man? Because she probably learned stuff here, but they're open, so polyamorous. And then the other thing is about jealousy. So there's kind of like a two-part question here about how do you navigate jealousy, but then also like, I don't know, I could see that happening where you just kind of there's like a depth of being seen with somebody, you know, they know, whatever, they just fell into a beautiful sexual experience. And then now she's back with her dude, like, what do I do?

What do I do now? Yeah. Anything relatable there for you? I mean, I'm going to try to focus on the parts that I'm like qualified, because I don't know that I know how to navigate jealousy in a... I think that's important, though, because a lot of times people will think that bisexuality is like, you know, that those two things go hand in hand. But like, as we talked about earlier, they can be really... Or like sexual fluidity and being polyamorous are like two very different things.

But I would ask Katarina if her male partner knows that's how she identifies. Even if he knows that she's in a relationship with a woman, he might not know like that part of her sexuality and like what that means to her. And that could be a really good entry point to that conversation about to bring in some of that intimacy. To say this is how I'm identifying now. This is part of who I am. It's not just a flipping.

When did you know? There are all those things that when you have a queer, when you have a queer romance, I guess, in this scenario, it's sort of like those questions are like, there's a subtext there that like, you know, it's like they understand parts of you that other people might not because of that. And because you have that shared experience of hiding something, I guess, from society.

And so to be able to bring your primary partner into the fold on that is a really beautiful thing to do. I love how you said to bring the intimacy from that relationship to this and yeah. Yeah, to kind of share what it was so there isn't maybe some more jealousy and just saying this is what I've learned and I wanna share with you.

Because if they're already polyamorous means that she says she's transparent with both of them. And I guess you could say I'm polyamorous, which means that she would have a primary partner and have other partners. So there's a lot of different ways people date as poly now too. I think it would just be like sharing in a way that's like,

I wanna share with you, like what I would say is like, this is this beautiful experience I had that felt intense and wonderful. And I would love be like sharing in a way that's like, I wanna share with you, like what I would say is like, this is this beautiful experience I had that felt intense and wonderful. And I would love to like share with you some of the experiences we had and kind of like show you what that is. Cause I'd love for us to have some of that depth. And then the jealousy thing is, you know,

I think that that's, wow. I mean, that's really just about having like understanding that jealousy is not like a fixed state or like you, your jealousy or you're not, it's something that I think people realize you can work through jealousy. It's not a place that you have to live. I think we're told like if you're jealous,

we have to act on it and it's horrible. But there is also some depth that comes from understanding going like a layer deeper, like what is my jealousy? Okay, I'm afraid my partner is gonna leave me. I'm afraid that I'm not good enough. I'm afraid that, and then if you can really sit there with those emotions with a trusting partner and kind of get into it, like the couples that I know that have been able to transcend the jealousy, although it never completely goes away, they're the ones who really got there. Like, you know,

babe, when you leave or when you're on a date with someone else, like let's say you're probably and and then I don't hear from you for a few hours, I start to get to get jealous. I feel like you're having a really great time. So can you make a boundary or rule that you text me three hours in, like send an alarm on your phone that I need to hear from you. Or you start to ask for what you want to assuage your fears, I suppose,

and the jealous, it's a lot of work. It's couples who can kind of communicate. Or maybe if you feel like I don't want to hear everything after your date, this is where couples again set boundaries. Like, so you feel like, maybe the partner comes home like I had amazing sex with this person, like, oh, I don't want to hear everything after your date. This is where couples again set boundaries. Like some people like, maybe the partner comes home like I had amazing sex with this person. Like, oh, I don't want to hear that. That makes you feel jealous. So I think it's to bring jealousy into the fold and like kind of talk about it and break it

apart and put it back together. That's what I recommend for people because I've seen couples transcend that truly. I have a book recommendation. that's not even my own book. It's called Open by Rachel Krantz. Yeah, maybe you've talked about it or read it. It's a memoir about an open relationship and it sort of through her own story talks about like the importance of that communication and what happens when it's not there. We'll be right back after a short break. But first I have to tell you about Lalo.

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It's got a lot of settings. The Nygma Wave, I know why it's one of their most popular toys, fully waterproof. Bring it to the bath or shower. It's just a good time. Explore your body, explore your partner's body. If you're bisexual or curious, fun it to the bath or shower. It's just a good time. Explore your body, explore your partner's body. If you're bisexual or curious, fun way to experiment with new kinds of pleasure and connection. So try the Enigma wave today. Visit lalo.com, use code

EMILY20 for an additional 20% off any existing sales. That's L-E-L-O.com. Use code EMILY20 for an additional 20% off or just click the link in our show notes. Stick around everyone. We'll be right back. Let's get into Zach. Yeah, I think that's a good one. Hi, my name is Zach and I am a 21 year old gay male from Nebraska. Recently I've been having confusing thoughts about my sexuality.

Basically, so I came out in October of last year and for the most part I've been happy about my change. Even though I had to break up with my ex four and a half years. These past few months I've been doing fantastic. I've started to be more open to my feminine, like to my feminine side. I've really been accepted like into like the community itself, but I've really been accepted into the community itself, but recently I've been having these weird thoughts about women as well.

Basically, it's almost as if my mind is trying to force the connection with women and sex, even though I have no desire whatsoever to sleep with or be in a romantic relationship with a woman. But the thing is when I have these thoughts I try to push them away as much as possible but they just continue to build in my head and it doesn't go away until like I'm actually try to be open to the idea of me being bisexual. But the thing is

whenever I do start to be open to the idea, the thoughts just automatically go away. Some of that's just my mind is afraid that I am by, even though if I was, I would be completely okay with that. But the thing is that just doesn't feel right either. So Zach is still working it out. The interesting thing here is that we all think our sexuality is just set.

And I think at any time, at any age, at any place in your life, it can sort of move along a spectrum or you could sometimes you might be attracted to or it changes, I guess it evolves. It can evolve over time and to be open to that. And I think Zach's experiencing it all at once now and at 21 and I think that's okay.

So I kind of want to normalize his process that he's articulating here that it's okay. There's not like you put like your stake in the ground. You're like, I am bi, I am gay. Like it's okay. I wish we didn't have any of these labels. Cause I see it as like, who are you attracted to now? What turned you on today?

We don't know what it could be tomorrow because that's the way our mind works. So the one thing I want to say here is that there's a lot going on here because there's the conditioning, right? We are all, I guess, responsive to whatever our earliest memories are of arousal. One thing I want to say here is that there's a lot going on here because there's the conditioning, right? We are all, I guess, responsive to whatever our earliest memories are of arousal. Like whatever it was, whether it was the porn you watched, what we were attracted to, what

maybe we were attracted to like a teacher in third grade and that's what we think about and that's where we first started to shape it. But in places where we might not even remember, there are these little kernels of sexual knowledge and wisdom and attraction that builds up. So he might be having just some like throwbacks to like, uh, early conditioning of watching porn or of, of, um, being forced to maybe be attracted to women. Cause that's what he thought was the right thing. So I just, I feel like I want him to just release all of it.

And I think he's starting to when he says like, Oh, I'm, I think I, when I let go of it, that it doesn't really have as much weight. So I think it just kind of his mind and his body sort of have to kind of connect to you. But what would you have to say to this sort of fluctuating of thoughts? Am I, am I not, you probably can speak to this, yes. I mean, now I'm thinking about my earliest sexual,

I'm thinking about the movie, Swim Fan. Do you remember that movie? No. It was so terrible. Tell me. I mean, no, it was, there was just like a scene, Eliza Dushku was in it and I don't remember, I don't remember the guy's name, but they just had like a, that's like when you talk about early arousal memories that pops into my head. Yeah, well that's good, but that's important to like go into that.

Seriously, but at another time, but. Yeah, it's, it's very funny. But yeah, I totally agree. I think labels, they get a bad rap. And for good reason sometimes because it can be really hard to feel like you deserve it. That's part of why I didn't come out as bi because I was like, I'm not queer enough to deserve this label when that's not a thing and that's like something I'm imposing because at the end of the day, the label is just for you and to help you find out

like more about yourself and connect with other people who also connect with that label, which is why earlier I was like, whatever label you use is right for you because at the end of the day, it's for you. It's not for anyone else. And so I think there's a little bit of biphobia at play, which is not to put you up that because everybody has a lot of internalized biphobia. But I think there's some hesitancy to being

bi. And like I was saying earlier, it's not like you have to want to act on it. You can be a man and only have sex with men and be bisexual. Like you never have to prove your bisexuality with a sexual experience. And so I guess I would say what's the problem with identifying as bi other than maybe like all the stigmas that we have about being bi. And I totally agree with you. Like there's, for me, it was really hard to tell like if I liked having threesomes a lot, like that was my entry point, humble brag. And I- That's a good time.

Yeah. So I was having a lot of threesomes and I wasn't sure if I was being bisexual, like if I was bisexual for myself or if I was doing it, cause I knew men like to watch it. And I think maybe something similar is happening here where it's like, you're not sure if you're attracted to women because that's what society tells you to do or because you actually are. I think a lot of times there is a little bit of ourselves in those things. So I would just encourage

a little bit of unlearning around bisexuality, like taking a look in the mirror and seeing why it is that this label is so scary. And then, yeah, just like looking back and assessing because you don't ever have to, like you don't ever have to sleep with a woman if you're bi. You don't have to do that. That's a really good point because it sounds like what you might be saying there is that he's having fantasies about women. Like they're still coming into his consciousness, which brings me to another thing that people who worry, people worry if they're gay, like, oh, I'm a straight man, but I watch gay porn or vice versa. I have a woman all the time, like I'm straight woman, but I watch lesbian porn, as they say.

It's like I was like, great, good. As long as you know what turns you on, that's awesome. But I think there's another layer of people like, what does it mean? Does it mean I need to act on it? So I would ask you, how do you know what turns you on, that's awesome. But I think there's another layer of people like, what does it mean? Does it mean I need to act on it? So I would ask you, how do you know? Like how could you tell people to know if this is just something to keep in their head as a fantasy or if they're like, I should dabble.

Is it when the urge is too much? Cause I think I'd be happy. Many of them would just be happy just watching them porn, but other people. I mean, I needed to know for myself. So I think maybe that's like the filter is like, if you actually want to do it. If you think you're bi, you probably are. Yeah. I mean, I kind of do like stand by that because if you're stressed about whether or not

you're bi, that's a very bisexual thing to do. Like that's bi culture is stressing about whether or not you're bi enough. Yeah. Wait, that makes so much sense because I think you're going to help someone heal by saying this because let me just put this out there that people, I can never tell sometimes by their emails or their calls because I'm not sitting with them. I don't know. But when people ask me that, I'm wondering usually, I'm like, well, if you're just watching porn, like, no, what does the labels matter? Because I always take it that way. They're wondering, they're worried or whatever.

You're fine. But then I'm thinking if they take the trouble to sit down and write me an email, maybe they're on the like, at that point where they're like, it's not just porn. I'm actually thinking about it so much that I'm gonna sit down, I'm gonna call into your show. I'm gonna write you a note that maybe they are at the place

where they're like having that by angst. Yeah. By angst. Is that the angst? Yeah. By angst. My next book. Right. Yeah.

I feel like- But I'm just wondering, I just had this thought where I'm like, oh, maybe if they're asking, but then again, maybe that is it for some of the listeners. But in general, if you're just watching, it doesn't have to mean anything. I think that's a really good point. I mean, it's a good thing for Zach to ask is like, why is this so like something that I'm thinking about so much that I wanted to write about it? And I really do think bisexuality is very scary to people.

There's a trope called murderous bisexuals. If you like Jennifer's body, she's a murderous bisexual. She's the best one in my opinion. Lady Gaga in American Horror Story, Kevin Spacey in House of Cards. I can't remember the character's name, but all of those people are like murderous bisexual characters. It's a thing and it's like on TVTropes.com to cite my source. Wow, murderous bisexual.

Yeah. Sounds like a good Halloween costume. Oh, actually, maybe I'll be that. Last year I was the bisexual IKEA couch, if you be that. Last year, I was the bisexual IKEA couch, if you've seen that. No, I was the bisexual. Can we just take a little more of the bisexual IKEA couch? Yeah, this year, I'm going to be a murderous bisexual.

It was like this couch that was designed. IKEA did a pride partnership with some designers, and it was a couch that was, it was the bisexual couch and it looked like they had a gay one, they had a lesbian one, and they had the bisexual one and it was like the colors of the bi flag which are pink, purple, and blue which is also very binary and is like something I don't love. Change that flag. Yeah. It had these like hands on it and the hands were like scary to people and it was like a Twitter moment.

Oh my God. Okay, wait. So wait, what were we saying before that murderous bisexual? Oh. Yeah. I mean, there's so much like, I mean, obviously villains being queer coded is like a huge thing. Like there's so many- It is. I see it now. And there's so many Disney villains that are queer coded. People talk about it in the queer community all the time because it actually has bearing on our lives because it's part of the way people see queer people as taking up space and being

boisterous and wreaking havoc and causing drama. It makes sense that the label bisexual is scary. That's what you've been told to scary. Like that's what you've been told to think. So that's probably another layer of conditioning. It's good. Very enlightening. I think this is awesome for everybody listening. And I just want to say one more thing to Zach and everybody who has these fantasies that I always say there's two kinds of fantasies. And I maybe there, I always feel like whenever you say something like, well, there's a third, but let me just tell you this is the ones that you want to happen and the ones that you don't want to happen. And it's okay to

have the ones in your head that you're just like, I'm just going tell you this, is the ones that you wanna happen and the ones that you don't wanna happen. And it's okay to have the ones in your head that you're just like, I'm just gonna think about this and I'm gonna think about whatever I want and I'm gonna keep it to myself and it feels really good, it turns me on and it's my thing, it's my go-to, it's my spank bank, I use it for arousal, done.

Like that's great. And it doesn't have to define you or you don't have to really like worry about that. You have to worry about anyone, to be honest. Like let's all chill out. But then there's the ones that you might wanna happen happen. Like meaning you want to act about with a partner. And so if that's your, you know, fantasy, then maybe we would know that you want to take another step here. So anyway, something to look at people.

Yeah, there's a third fantasy. Let me know. Hi Emily. This is Liz from Oklahoma. I identify as a woman and I am bisexual. I am in a straight marriage, so I am married to a man and our sex life has always been really good. My question is, how do I get my husband to explore the kinks that I am into when he thinks they're weird. For example, I asked him if he would like to bring in another woman into the bedroom, and me thinking what guy would say no to that, my husband did actually say no. But to kind of combat that, I was like,

well, it's not a real woman, how about a sex doll? That looks like a woman. And so we ordered a sex doll, looks like a woman? And so we ordered a sex doll and have used it three or four times, but after asking to use it again, my husband now thinks it's weird and awkward. Any tips on helping me with this? I would really like to use it and I would really also like to be with I think it's interesting that Liz says that she's bisexual. my kinks more often. Thanks for your help. I appreciate you. Love your show. Bye-bye. I think it's interesting that Liz says that she's bisexual and is facing this challenge from her husband that she wants to be with another woman and that like in addition to the sex doll,

like that doesn't feel really welcomed. Because, as you know, like, I obviously think, like, being bisexual is very important and to talk about it is very important. Um, so I, I guess I would wonder how much they've talked about that and like, what it means, like, have they talked about it beyond just a behavior? Have they talked about it as a behavior and like what it looks like? And I wonder if that could like having that conversation could even like pave the way to get to the sex doll. Yeah, I'm totally with you.

It seems like they are, you know, they're married and he knows that she's bi, but yet there's no space in this marriage for her to actually play with her. She calls it a kink though. It's interesting. So when we talk about kink though. It's interesting. So when we talk about kink,

people always think like, what is kinky? And I'm like, well, it's basically anything beyond missionary. It's probably like, it's a, if you think you're missionary and you make out, maybe that's conventional. But if kink is pretty much like even like oral sex can be seen as kinky.

So what I'm saying here is that it sounds like you're in a very straight marriage, that this is something that your partner, there needs to be a lot more opening up here. I think of just understanding desire and what turns you on and why it's important to be in a relationship, to be able to share each other's turn-ons and to grow together sexually. Because this to me, like you're 27 years old, I don't know how you've been together, but it's going to be like a really, really long life with this relationship. If you guys don't both learn how to sort of open up together, I'd want to know what he's

into. What does he want to explore? Now I'm already hearing him, but he said, I'm happy with just the way it is, right? But you're not right now. She's not Liz. So I would say that there's a lot more to share. Like, what is it about, you know, being with a woman or identifying as bisexual? What does it mean to you?

Like Jen's point, can you go a little bit deeper with that? What are your desires? What are you into? I think it's great that the doll does it for you. There just needs to be more opening here. And I always say, create a culture of communication and sex curiosity in your home by listening to other podcasts and reading books

or watching TV that would kind of open up the environment where he might not hear other people talking to him. It might seem very weird. He might have fear around it. It sounds like some partners might feel like that would be really hot to see you with someone else as we talked about, but some are just like, no, that is cheating. That's going to take away from attractions. I think there's some confusion here and some education that needs to happen.

Slowly but surely, there's a lot stronger bisexual representation in media. And like anytime you consume content that like they mentioned bisexuality, it's a great opportunity to like be like, oh, you know, I really related to that, or like to kind of use that as an opener. Where would you direct people then? Is there anything else that opened you up

or some recently that has come? Yes, I love the show Hacks on HBO. I think it's like one of the best like bisexual representations I have seen. And they talk about queerness so beautifully and not in an overbearing way at all. It's just like additive to the show. I also really love the show Generation on HBO, which was canceled, but I love it. And it has a lot of really strong bisexual conversations. And on that show, there are great flawed bisexual characters because a lot of times it's like, you want to write a bisexual character who's like very straight and narrow,

like not being promiscuous. Like you don't want to like fall into these stereotypes, but by people are allowed to be human. And it's actually like not because promiscuous. Like you don't want to like fall into these stereotypes, but by people are allowed to be human. And it's actually like not because of their bisexuality that they're a hot mess. It's just coincidence. We can all be a hot mess no matter who we sleep with. Yes.

Oh, that's good. That's helpful. Hi, Emily. My question is my boyfriend is bisexual, which is great. But the reason that I'm calling all this two parts, one is I feel kind of insecure about that and I just wanted to talk to you about that. And the second part is I am wanting to try anal stuff with him, which I know he's into because he does it to himself, but he doesn't really seem open to having me do it with him.

He just kind of says like, oh, of says, oh, that makes me uncomfortable to think about doing it with you. He'll do stuff to me if I want him to, but he's not wanting me to do it to him. And I just feel like that would be a great thing for us to do together. I already know he likes it. So I just was wondering if you have any tips about how

to go about that conversation. I've already tried. I think I'm a pretty good communicator. Or maybe I should just leave it and not try. So yeah, thanks for your podcast. I've already tried. I think I'm a pretty good communicator or maybe I should just leave it and not try. So yeah, thanks for your podcast. I really enjoy it. I listen to it a lot and it's totally helping me like kind of realize some things.

I'm in my 20s so just kind of realize some things that I haven't, you know, that I would like to try in my life. So thank you for everything you do. All right, Lauren, you probably hear that a lot. What about Jen about feeling insecure and worried that like your partner could leave you be greedy, you probably hear that a lot. What about Jen, about feeling insecure and worried that your partner could leave you be greedy and be for anyone, right? So that probably comes up a lot.

That's exactly where that stereotype comes from, for sure. I think it's interesting that in this one, Lauren starts by saying, my boyfriend is bisexual, which is great. So there's like some undertone of like support and encouragement, which is like amazing. You know, that's not always a given. And I think that's really great. And it's awesome to see that. But then the next line is like, I feel kind of insecure about that. So I think it's really nice that there's that acknowledgement that this is a good thing and then acknowledgement that that is like within Lauren to address. I also

think this actually comes up a lot in relationships with bisexual men, like this conversation about anal or like this has come up a lot for me personally. I'm not sure that that's something that can be mapped. No, it is though. Yeah. A mappable insight. We can map it. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

Cool. I believe that if you have a man, you have a penis and you have prostate, and I think that there's a lot of guys who assume that if they stimulate that prostate, that it means something about their sexuality, it makes them gay, it makes them something. I think I should say this on every show for the rest of my life. I've said it on a lot of them, but it just means that it feels really good and you're open to pleasure and you're open to exploration. And I just think it's kind of sad that a lot of guys will never explore that.

A lot of men won't. So I just want to say that. That's just my anal thing. However, what's interesting here is that she's like, now I want to do it because I know you like it. So she's feeling a little bit left out. And when I would say the conversation would go outside the bedroom with your partner and just saying,

hey, let's talk about our sex life. Let's talk about things that we're into and that we both wanna try. And like, what would be a big turn on for you? Let me tell you what would be a big turn on for me. Because rather than like, I think that since you did mention, Lauren did mention that it makes her a little bit insecure,

that she's trying to be like, well, then I'll do this and then I'll really please him and I'll do this. But you don't know, like maybe he just likes doing it himself, you know? Maybe he doesn't actually want you to do that, but he has other fantasies. So I think rather than making assumptions, and she's never gonna win this place,

if you keep trying to be what you think he wants, just have a conversation with it that's just open. Let's agree that we both wanna be great lovers to each other. Are you in? Okay, cool. Let's talk about what our big turn-ons are, what that would look like,

and what can we do with each other? Because I think she's just kind of, she wants to stay ahead of this bisexual because anytime he could turn around and be with someone else, you know, be with a man, like, so she's has these concerns. And I think that in real time, figure out what, what he actually wants and what you guys could do together to play. Yeah, I love that.

I also think like, maybe he, I don't know if they are open or polyamorous, but maybe he wants to like explore connecting and hooking up with other genders. And maybe that's what's not being said when these conversations are happening. Like when he doesn't want her to do it, like maybe there's something else that he wants that he almost feels like he's communicated a little bit

by saying he's bisexual, but hasn't't fully communicated. If you're in a relationship with someone right now and you're confused or you're insecure, that doesn't mean that you're an insane person or like, I can't believe these feelings have to make them go away. I'm gonna do everything to make them go away.

There's some information there. Why are you insecure? And that's when you have to have a conversation. And these are all communication skills which we are not taught in life, so it's okay. But it's like being a good listener, not attacking them, not saying like, I know that you're, why are you wanting to be with other men and not with me? But saying, I really want to know a little bit more. These feelings come up for me where I feel like I can't quite

be enough for you. And I know you've talked about your bisexuality, but I'd love to know a little bit more about it. Can you tell me about your experience with it? What about it turned you on? Like, like, and then you have to remember that you have to breathe and you have to listen and you have to reflect back what you hear. And then that's how she's going to go a little bit deeper because I think you're right. I think there's just there's more to be revealed here, but she doesn't know enough about his bisexuality. Yeah, I feel like a broken record because that's like my response to each of these questions

is like, talk about your bisexuality with your partner. But it's true because it's so, you know, when I started writing my book, questions is like, talk about your bisexuality with your partner. But it's true, because it's so, you know, when I started writing my book, people were like, are you really going to be able to write a whole book about bisexuality? And it was so easy, because there's so much to say, because it's all about, like, nuance and personal, like your personal preferences. And like, it's really like it can unlock some really amazing conversation territory beyond just who you wanna sleep with. And then I'll also say all the shows I was referencing earlier,

and it's a great time for you to start conversations with your partner. Even if you're not bi, it's a great opportunity to be like, hey, I see you, hi, tell me about your bisexuality. It's a great way in. They should do something today. They should do have a conversation day and read your book. Because this is your book, it's a great way in. They should do something today. They should do have a conversation day and read your book because this is your book. It's a memoir really. And you kind of cover so many different of

the, so many terrain of the bisexuality terrain that people think people can kind of like see themselves in this. They will find parts of themselves in your story that might help them feel better about themselves or their partner. I hope so. I hope it gives people something to talk about if you read it. Okay, cool. Jen, I want to ask you the five quickie questions you don't have to prep for. Easy, ready? Okay, Jen, what's your biggest turn on? Food.

What's your biggest turn off? Anxiety. What makes good sex? Communication. Something you would tell your younger self about sex and relationships? Just have fun. What's the number one thing you wish everyone knew about sex? That it's supposed to be enjoyable. I didn't know that for way too long.

That's a good one. Okay, thanks Jen. How can everyone find you? You can find me on Twitter, Instagram, and I guess TikTok now at at generous with a J. Thank you so much for having me. This was wonderful. And it was great to hear from all your listeners. It was fun, right?

Thanks for being here. I appreciate you. Yay. at at generous with a J. Thank you so much for having me. This was wonderful. And it was great to hear from all your listeners. It was fun, right? Thanks for being here. I appreciate you. Yay. That's it for today's episode.

Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily and be sure to like, subscribe, and give us a review wherever you listen to the podcast and share this with a friend or a partner. You can find me on Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, Twitter, or X and Facebook. It's all at Sex With Emily. Oh, and I've been told I give really good email.

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