Sex With Emily - How to Make Consent Sexy (Not Awkward) l ft. Sarah Sloane

Episode Date: August 8, 2025

Join the SmartSX Membership : ⁠https://sexwithemily.com/smartsx⁠ Access exclusive sex coaching, live expert sessions, community building, and tools to enhance your pleasure and relationships with Dr. Emily Morse. List & Other Sex With Emily Guides: ⁠https://sexwithemily.com/guides/⁠ Explore pleasure, deepen connections, and enhance intimacy using these Sex With Emily downloadable guides. SHOP WITH EMILY!: ⁠https://bit.ly/3rNSNcZ ⁠(free shipping on orders over $99) Want more? Visit the Sex With Emily Website: ⁠https://sexwithemily.com/⁠ In this enlightening episode of Sex with Emily, Dr. Emily welcomes Sarah Sloane, sex and kink educator from the Hashtag Open app, for an essential conversation about consent, sexual communication, and finding partners who truly align with your desires. This episode tackles everything from making consent conversations sexy to navigating ethical porn, kink exploration, and the realities of dating after divorce. Sarah breaks down how to make consent attractive rather than awkward, emphasizing that consent is temporary and can be withdrawn at any time. We explore the "hell yes" versus "hell no" standard for enthusiastic consent and practical ways to slow down sexual encounters for better awareness and communication. The conversation addresses how to teach consent early through body autonomy and why being honest about your boundaries actually makes you more attractive to compatible partners. We dive into listener questions from Matt, who's navigating dating after an abusive marriage with no prior dating experience, and Christi, whose 20-year marriage is strained by concerns about her husband's porn use. Sarah offers guidance on video dating as the pandemic norm, using apps like Hashtag Open for specific interests, and the importance of yes/no/maybe lists for discovering preferences without shame. Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction & Sarah’s Early Life 03:41 - Discovering Kink & Initial Curiosity 07:38 - Power Exchange & Emotional Safety in BDSM 11:59 - Consent, Boundaries & Clear Communication 16:13 - Self-Worth, Validation & Identity 20:46 - Shame, Judgment & Cultural Programming 26:17 - Healing from Trauma Through Play 31:03 - BDSM & Somatics: Embodiment Work 36:42 - Rewriting Scripts Around Pleasure & Worthiness 43:20 - Advice for Beginners & Empowered Exploration

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pleasured by somebody else. You're listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate your sex life. Today's show is all about consent and why it's not only essential, but actually sexy. We're diving deep into what enthusiastic consent really looks like, how to ask for what you want without killing the mood, and why saying no can actually lead to better sex for everyone. I'm also joined by Sarah Sloan from the app hashtag Open, and together we're taking your calls about dating after divorce, navigating insecurities in long-term relationships, and yes,

we're talking about ethical porn consumption too. This episode is about understanding that boundaries aren't barriers to pleasure. They're the foundation for it. We'll explore how being honest about what you want makes you sexier, why slowing down can transform your intimate life, and how creating space for authentic desire benefits everyone involved. My intention is that this conversation empowers you to communicate openly, embrace your desires without shame,

and remember that the best sex happens when everyone involved is genuinely excited to be there. All right, let's dive in. I started thinking about all the things with sex that we are never taught. Not only are we not taught as adults, but even today, young people in schools are not being taught this as well. So one thing that keeps coming up is consent. I think there's some confusion about what consent actually means. And consent is an essential part of sex. It's not something that's outside of sex. Because we all have the right to do whatever we want to do in it, with our bodies and with sex.

And since we've been so buttoned up about sex, I know that I used to think when I was a young woman having sex that I didn't really think it was okay to say no or to stop sex. Let's say I was attractive to someone and maybe we went home and went back to their room

or their dorm room or, you know, their apartment. And we started fooling around. And then I started to feel not comfortable anymore with it. And I started to feel like, oh, God, I'm not really attracted to this person or they just did something weird. I thought it was my duty and it would be insulting

and I would hurt this person's feelings and that was more important than me stopping any sex act that didn't quite feel right in the moment. And I just thought, oh, blue balls, which by the way isn't a real thing. I mean, yes, your balls can hurt if you think you're going to come and not come

but then you come and it's fine. It's not like their penis is going to fall off. And I didn't owe anyone anything, right? Especially as a woman, like that's what I thought. I didn't want to be shamed. I wouldn't want him to not like me, to all the reasons why we keep going with sex. Sometimes we think it's easier to say yes than to say no.

But if you really understand consent, then you understand that it's essential to sex and not just actual intercourse, but it's essential to even like moving forward with everything, with kissing, with making out with someone, and then moving into other things. It's okay to say not right now or let's slow this. down. I know there were a lot of times where I felt like sex was really rushed, you know,

rushing to the main course as we think is intercourse. And I was like, oh, but I really liked when you're kissing. Let's go back to that or let's slow it down. Like I didn't think any of that it was okay. And I think this also has to do with being really in touch with our own bodies and exploring what makes me feel good. Am I actually enjoying this moment? And we're so often in our heads during sex. We're not in our bodies. You know, when you talk about somatic, it's an embodied experience is actually being in touch with what's happening in our body in the moment. But if we were more present, we would say that hurts or I'm not warmed up yet or I'm not feeling it. And if you think about it, if you are thinking about being intimate with someone or you

already are, is it a hell yes or is it a hell no? If you're not feeling the hell yes, even if it's a hell maybe, maybe it's time to pause. What else would you need in that moment to get to a hell yes. And maybe there's nothing. Maybe you're like, I'm going to stay in this maybe no period. You don't want to do anything with anyone unless you're actually both excited to do it. You both want to be on board. We talk about consent and it's getting a lot of bad raps and like people, obviously, because there's so much assault on college campuses that there's this whole like, oh, great, now I got to like, before I make out with someone, I have to have a picture of them saying yes on my camera. I'm like, that's not hot. That spoils the moment.

But you know what else spoils the moment is when we don't know what's coming next? Like, is she going to let me go down her pants? Is she going to happen? But if you clearly discuss your boundaries and what you're into and have all these healthy conversations around sex before you even have sex, like what turns you on or what are your fantasies, then we'll actually know what's on limits, what's off limits. Then we won't be in our heads a whole time worrying what our partners are going to think.

But let's just go back to consent for a moment. So ways to ask for consent, you could say, Would you mind if I give you a kiss? Could we move this into the bedroom? Do you want to have sex? And consent doesn't have to be so dull. You can make consent sexy. You could reframe a question.

Think about that as part of like a seduction, as part of foreplay. Rather than saying, do you mind if I kiss you? You could say, I'm wondering what it would be like to kiss you right now. Like I'm wondering what your lips would taste like. Would that be okay if I kissed you? To me, that's hot. Like, you're thinking about kissing me. And then I'm like, do I want this?

Do I know I want this? But that's so much sexier than just not saying anything at all, making assumptions, or just going right forward and being rejected. And the other thing is we, a lot of times we miss opportunities because we don't ask for consent, right? So we're so worried of rejection and we're trying to read someone's mind that we never make our move. We never let someone know that we're interested because we don't talk about sex and it's so shit. and so taboo that we think we should all be mind readers. Consent goes both ways. It's about being up front, being open. What do I want? What turns me on? This is why I love our yes,

no maybe list that you can find at the sex with Emily's site. It's a great place to start if you don't know how to even like talk about these things. Like what's on the table? What's off the table? It lists everything from cuddling to kissing to anal sex to spanking. And if you both fill it out individually, then you can compare notes, and then you'll know, well, anal's off the table, so I don't have to try anal. Or maybe there's some areas where you're both yes is. Well, how great, if you both said yes to something, then you don't have to worry if that's okay. And when you're in doubt about anything, just speak up. Like, if you're not sure that your partner, you know, is into what you're doing, you can ask them and say, you know, hey, how's this feeling? Are you

into this? Do you want to keep going? Do you want to stop? It's important to learn to be present in the moment. There's so many reasons why mindfulness is important, but reading the room, like, reading your partner, are they feeling it? Because there's been so many times where my face might have looked horrified or I wasn't really into it. And I kept secretly wishing that my partner could tell that I didn't want to keep going. And if they'd been paying attention, you know, they might have known or if they had that knowledge that maybe they were so terrified that I was good to stop because, you know, men sometimes are afraid of losing their erections, let's say. So they just keep going.

So I think reading body language is really important. And also remembering that consent is temporary. What I mean is I might tell you at the beginning of the night that I'm really into penetration. Like, yes, I want to have sex with you. And then it starts. And I realize that, you know what? I actually changed my mind.

That's okay. It's okay to change your mind. It's okay that consent can change moment to moment or time to time. Just because I wanted, you know, you to go down to me last time doesn't mean that it's okay this time, right? So it's okay to check in and make sure that, you know, your partner's enjoying it. And this is why, again, presence and awareness of you and your partner are so important. And so as a reminder, like consent is not just the absence of no.

Like no doesn't mean yes. Consent is not thinking that a no means yes. Consent is not about continuing after you change your mind because you owe it to someone. Consent is also not nonverbal resistance. I showed you I didn't want it and you kept going, you know. Consent is not saying that you're coerced into. It's not continual. It's not, I'm not sure.

It's not a maybe. Just because I dressed super sexy when I went over your house, that is not consent. Consent is to maybe one act, but it doesn't mean I said yes to everything. We just don't want to ignore the science from our partner. And you know what's really hot is slowing down. I mean, go five times slower. If we just slowed sex down, in every way.

The kissing, the fooling around, the everything. It's so much better because then we actually can feel what's happening. We're not rushing, and we're much more likely to actually know what feels good to us if we slow it down. I just think sex goes way too fast sometimes. So if you want to know what consent is, like affirmative consent, like hell yes consent, it more looks like something that's equal. You both want it. You're sober.

Now, I know you could sober sex. You're like, oh, God, so don't. First off, that's when we don't have our right mind to be consensual. But I don't even think that we enjoy it. I've done that. I am not a saint. What I'm just saying, is that the best sex in my life? It is not.

So remember, it's voluntary. It's enthusiastic. I'm into it. Like, yes, I want sex. It's engaged. It's verbal. And it's also very active. It's honest.

And it's definitely continual. We want to keep asking for consent. I've been talking a lot about how do we, talk about sex and how we talk to our kids about sex. I've been an advocate of it that in other countries, they definitely teach sexual health and wellness and consent at a young age. And so you meet kids where they're at. So when kids are young, they'll teach them about their actual real name for their body parts and they'll teach them consent. You know, there's some people say, can I change your diaper? Can I give you a hug? You don't force them to give their aunt a hug

if they don't want to give their aunt a hug, right? And then you explain to them that their body is there, that they're autonomous. No one else can touch your body if you don't want them to. You give them the words to use. And sometimes we won't say we know to something because we don't know how to say it. So you can teach young children to say like, please don't touch my leg. It makes me feel uncomfortable. I don't want you to do that to me. And this consent language rules goes for everybody. It's such an act of self-care to actually be able to say no. Like I wish that when I said no to my friends for meeting them for dinner, they would just say, thank you for taking care of yourself. I get that you have to work or you need a downtime. And no is a very

personal thing. It's how I'm feeling in this moment. I'm respecting my boundaries. And if we could just reinforce people's own choices, even when it comes to sex, if we learn that someone's no doesn't mean that we're a bad person or that we're ugly or that our bodies are not attractive, I think the reason why we don't take well to know is because we think, oh, I'm not attractive or I did something wrong and like I think every time someone says no to us for whatever it is going for coffee or giving a blow job we think no means rejection on us and technically it is this person is saying no I don't want to do whatever with you but it's not for the reasons we think typically we create this whole story I'm a bad person I'm not desirable they have something better

to do sure all that could be true always but typically it's because someone's just saying no that's not where I'm at right now being sexual with you you at this moment doesn't speak to me, doesn't feel good to me. And if we could just continually reinforce that no is okay and it's actually going to get us closer to getting our own needs met, like why waste time with a bunch of people who are really want to say no, but they're saying yes, how great to just find your people, find your person that actually is on the same page with you. We'd get there a lot quicker.

We'd have much more pleasurable sex. We'd have much more satisfying sex. Who doesn't want that? Hang tight. I'll be right back after this quick break. When I started sex with Emily, I had no idea what I was doing. I was passionate, sure, but suddenly I was the host, the producer, the marketer, and the business manager all at once.

It was a lot. Honestly, I wish I had Shopify back then because they make building a business so much easier. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world, powering 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. Think brands like Mattel and Jim Shark and so many new businesses. creators. Want to launch your dream store? Shopify gives you hundreds of beautiful templates to make your site shine. No coding needed. Need a little help? Their AI tools

write product descriptions, headlines, and even help enhance your product images. And when you're ready to get the word out, Shopify's got built in email and social tools to help you find your people. They're the partner that handles everything from inventory to shipping to returns so you can focus on your big vision. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big idea into with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com slash SW.E. That's Shopify.com slash SWE. All right. I'm going to jump in because my guest is here. So excited to talk to Sarah Sloan. Sarah is a sex, a kink, and relationship educator and coach. She's also the director of operations

and communications at Hashtag Open, which we've talked a lot about hashtag Open on the show. We actually had Miley on a few weeks ago. And what I love about this app is that I've never seen anything like it because first you can choose your identity, your gender, your orientation, it's all cool. You can also use a hashtag to express whatever you're into, BDSM, cuckolding, spanking, or just sexting. You could hashtag it on this app. It's just really cool.

But Sarah and I have a lot in common. She's been doing this for over 20 years talking about ethical non-monogamy kink, all the things. So Sarah, welcome to the show. Thank you. Great to have you here. It's so lovely to be here. Thank you for having me.

It's so lovely to see you. I mean, okay, so after we had, you know, Miley-on and we've been talking about the apps right now, but dating, you know, a lot of couples, let's say, this is what I've seen. Couples are staying together, but they're like. I don't know that we can continue in the same way. So let's have some of those difficult conversations. Maybe there's a fantasy we on that. Maybe we want to have a threesome or open it up.

And so what have you been seeing with hashtag open and membership and trends during this quarantine time? You know, initially we, I think we are all kind of scrambling to figure out like, oh, how do we make sure that we're still bringing our community of members something really amazing to kind of keep them. keep them connected with each other because the first thing that happened was everything got shut down and we weren't able to see our friends. We weren't able to visit our family. And so we knew that connection was going to be the thing that was going to get us through this. So we started really doing some shifts in terms of our business, including weekly get-togethers and weekly educational events for everybody, but also doing some members-only events. But what we

started seeing was that initial downturn, I think, where people were just not really sure what they were going to do. And now we're finding people are more and more interested than ever in reaching out and having conversations in trying to find somebody as a potential, whether it's an online date or somebody to just kind of talk about their fantasies with. We've seen a bunch of couples that have come on board in the last little bit. Lots of people who are singletons who are looking for couples as well. Yeah, let me say that. It's not just couples, you guys.

It's for singles, too, of course. It's for literally whatever. What I love what you're saying about these free events, and it is a free app, and you can find it at hashtag open. So what's cool is that you have the free education, and that's hashtag open.com slash events. I sit here every night trying to help people sort of answer questions and kind of educate them on fantasy.

or how to communicate or just anything. And the fact that you offer an online virtual place for people to get more information right now because you don't go from zero to nominogamy, right? You don't. Yeah. One of the things that we are kind of getting a clue on, I think culturally, is that when we're going through times

of a lot of stress, we pay attention to the fact that life becomes a little bit more valuable. Our time becomes a little bit more valuable. You know, I look forward to the two hours a week that I get to go outside and spend time with a friend. That has become much more important than it was before. And I think the positive quality of that is that we're looking at like, how can I make the relationships in my life or the sex in my life feel really fulfilling and really strong?

And so we're kind of not glossing but over like, oh, well, I've put up with this thing for five or six years. I guess I can keep putting up with it. So I think for people who are willing to approach making some changes in their life or like learning something new, with a sense of curiosity, I think this can be a really transformative time for folks. Having workshops that are fairly short, we don't make anybody sit there for more than an hour because it's really difficult to engage online.

But bringing in educators from all walks of life from all over the United States on all kinds of topics. We've had everything from, we have consent later this week. We had a workshop that some porn performers and producers did on how to consume ethical porn. So we have a little bit of everything. So there's something for everybody to peak your curiosity.

So tell me about your ethical, because we talk a lot about ethical porn. And let me just tell you this. You've got not one, not but two experts on the show tonight to answer your questions about fantasies, porn, open relationships, how to try something different in the bedroom. So let's talk about the ethical, because, okay, so set this up, a lot of our callers are like, confused by the porn consumption of their partner. They want to watch with their partner, but they haven't found. anything that speaks to them. We know that porn so much more readily available. So maybe you could tell me about the conversation on ethical porn. Yeah. I'm curious what came up. We had a couple Jetsed and Jasmine and King Mar who are performers and producers. They run their own

porn business. And they did an amazing conversation where they talked about really intentionally looking for porn that is created ethically that honors the people who are creating it, that doesn't fetishized based on bodies or based on race, you know, looking at where porn performers are producing their own work so that they're making a good income from their work. But it's about more than just kind of like surfing corn hub. It's about actually finding a performer that you really like that is thriving and doing work that empowers them. And then kind of figuring out, like, what work has this person done? Who is this person enjoying? A lot of performers are on Instagram and are on Twitter now, so you can kind of get a little

bit of a behind the scenes and get to know them a little bit. And I think for people who aren't sure about their own consumption of porn, being able to try to find a click with a performer and then start with that performer's work can be a totally different way of approaching porn that is actually more, I don't know, there's a little bit more heart to it, I think. There is more heart to it. It makes so much sense because there's sometimes so much shame, people feel really bad or dirty after, you know, for a multitude of reasons.

But that might kind of help people feel, yeah, a little bit more heart, a little more soulful in your porn watching, a little more consciousness. And let's talk to Matt 26 in Missouri. Hi, Matt, what's going on? Thanks for calling. Hi, Matt. Hey, thanks for taking my call.

Of course. Kind of a weird question, maybe. So I'm 26. And so I've never dated. I don't have game. I met my wife when I was 21, very sheltered childhood didn't really get out we got buried when I was 22 the last several years in an abusive relationship no sex life come to find out she's been cheating on me and so now

we're in the middle of the course and we're in case that and I guess the question comes down to a couple of things number one when is it okay to get back into dating like technically I'm still married I'm separated when is it okay to give back in swing of things and two yeah How? There's only with no experience. Matt, these are such good questions and not weird at all. And let me just tell you this. This question is going to help so many people.

Like, you don't all call in, but I'm, you know, people listening. Because I get this all ages, Matt. It's not weird. People are married for 20 years and have the same question. So first off, here's the thing. I'm not one who's like, you must wait six months. You know, I want you to wait until you're actually ready until you feel that you've healed from the relationship.

You're ready to move on already. Like, is there still ang, you want to make sure you're a place where like we're definitely moving on and I'm ready to date. I mean, you did file. That's great. So really it's more about your own emotional state. For example, let's say I met somebody and they were like, yeah, we're in this proceedings. It's really ugly. My ex is a bitch. She cheated. I may be like, you are not ready. But if you shut up on a date man, you're like, yeah, you know, my ex-wife and I were just, we're parting ways. It didn't work out, but I'm really open right now to just kind of meet people.

It depends where your head is right now. So are you ready to date? If society does matter? Are you ready to date? Kind of. I don't know if this makes me have to be a bad, bad person or not. I'm kind of past feeling like a bad person. I've done that for several years now. I'm not ready for a relationship. You're ready for some sex, right? Okay. Well, Sarah is like literally the perfect person. But first off, it's okay for you to state that to people because there's a lot of people in your position. And that's how you get more comfortable. So Sarah's song from hashtag open. What do you think, Sarah?

Absolutely. You know, there's nothing that says that you have to go back into any kind of dating that fits a certain definition. You don't have to go look for your next big relationship. You don't have to go out and even look for more than just a single date. I think the thing that really resonates with everybody, and this is whether you're new to dating or whether you're not, people forget sometimes that somebody who's being honest about, here's what I'm looking for and here's what my boundaries are, that automatically makes you sexier because there are a lot of people that love to play games. There are a lot of people that feel like they have to play a game or they have to say something to somebody in order to get a date with them or get some time with them. And I know this from the dating app when people say, you know what, I'm here for this. I'm here for a coffee date. I'm here for looking for a long-term relationship. You are more likely to get what you're actually looking for than if you just kind of go into

it and say, well, I'm open to anything. You know, like pick a thing that you want and go for. for it. I think she's right. Boundaries are sexy. There's nothing sexy that someone who's like, I'm getting out of a relationship. I'm just looking to meet people, make new friends. And I think it is a practice. So to answer your question, like, how do you do it? It's like a muscle, right? It's something that you just have to practice and build. And I think being honest with people, check out hashtag open. However you meet people, I think it's great to, if you tell everyone that you're single and that you're looking to meet people, say yes to those events that maybe, well, right now,

I don't know what your quarantines like in Missouri, but, you know, maybe there's some outdoor barbecues. Like, say yes to those things that you wouldn't normally, because that's where you're likely to meet people. You'll get there, Matt, you know? And don't be hard on yourself. I relate to that, too. Sounds like you've been through the ringer.

And I would also recommend therapy. That could be really helpful. You said it was abusive. And that stuff doesn't go away in time unless it really helps to get into it, a therapist. That will really help this process, too. They are expensive, but I think your mental health, obviously, your physical health, but when you get mentally healthy, it's going to help you in every other area of your life.

Because then you'll understand who you are, what you're looking for, why you got yourself into that place, probably something from childhood was familiar. But go easy on yourself. Well, thank you so much. Of course. Yeah, thank you so much for me out with that. I love the show, by the way. Thank you, Matt.

I'm here for you every night. Let me know it goes, okay? Okay, thanks, Matt. You probably get a lot of that, Sarah, like people who are newly single or, you know, it's so scary to get back out there again, you know, if you've never been on apps. But apps are the way to go now. I think that it's almost like, why not? You know, it is so much easier to go into an app.

And, you know, we're set up for a double opt-in. So basically, both people have to match. So it makes it a little bit more of a comfortable environment. You know, you're not going to just kind of get a barrage of inappropriate photo. through messages. But I think that having an opportunity to kind of test the waters with somebody, get a little bit of information about them. I love it when people put pictures of them and their pets or them doing something

active or something that looks fun. You know, I want to see somebody who has a little bit of a spark of personality. With a dating app, you get an opportunity to kind of go like, oh, let me know a little bit bite size about you. And then let's see if we match. And if we match, let's chat a little bit.

no pressure, and we can kind of take it from there. So it's definitely cheaper than a singles bar, for sure. And you know, exactly. You don't have to buy them anything, right? You just need strong, why internet connection? It's funny because I've been saying for years, like, if you're going to date in an app, like you might be, if you're going to date, why get ready, drive across town, FaceTime them first, do video chat.

And now it's expected. I was, it's funny, I was talking to a friend this weekend and she was telling you about a date. It's a quarantine romance. She said, we've been together for six weeks. She says we met. But of course we got through the first video date or we did two video date. It's like that's the norm now, which I love the slowing down of getting to know somebody.

I think that that's what we've needed in a way, slowing down in every area of our life. So you can ask the questions and see if there's a connection. Yeah, it's about being able to make space for that exploration. You know, I think about it often when we talk to people who have been working a highly professional job for years and years and years. And then for whatever reason, they have some time off. They get laid off or they're going to retirement. And they suddenly have all of this time. And they realize, like, oh, I've, I've missed out. I've skipped over things. And so I think creating this space gives us a chance to kind of say, well, what was missing? What could I do now? What can I do differently

in the future? Yeah. What's important to me? What do I value? I also want to talk to you about a few things. If you want to hang out for a second, we can come back. Take a quick break. Don't go anywhere. There's more sex with Emily coming right up. Let's talk to Christy 52 in Texas. Hi, Christy. Hi, Emily. How are you? I'm so good. Sweetie, what's going on? How can I help? Oh, my goodness. Okay. Well, my husband and I we've been married for 20 years and this is my second marriage my first marriage ended with my husband being unfaithful I've always felt really secure in this marriage recently we moved to a new city and don't know very many people he was here a little bit

before I did move, but I, when I got here, I had noticed some stuff on the computer and on the phone, and so obviously he was looking at things, and there was even a dating fight, but I think, I do believe it was just mostly curiosity, not, I'm not thinking many of had an affair. But it just kind of triggers something in me. And so then lately when we've been and we have an active sex license four or four or five times a week, which I think is pretty good for a couple in the 50s. Yeah, sounds good to me. But I guess I just all of a sudden we become really insecure because I feel like he's been watching porn. and he's kind of being secretive about it

and he's kind of trying new things which I'm figuring that he's, you know, learning from that. And, you know, one night I said, because I started listening to you, you know, why don't we try and watch something together? And, you know, so we watched a little bit. And I have given him several opportunities to kind of be like, so mean

without saying, I know that you're looking at it or you're watching something, you know, I just don't know how to address it, but I can tell when we're making one, like, he has his eyes closed. He might not even be looking at me, and I kind of feel like he's not having sex with me, even though he is, but it's with somebody in his head. So I guess I just need to know how to communicate that, because then I have to kind of stress up that I was nosy. And, you know, Christy, it sounds like, well, first off, thank you so much for calling with this because that's a lot to unpack. It's like new city. You've been together 20 years. You found some stuff. It harkens back to your earlier cheating with your ex-husband that you didn't trust and that cheated. So I understand all of this. So first, is he cheating or is there something going on and then the porn part of it? But I think there's another part of it that's more about pulling back and just talking about your sex life. In general, you said his eyes were closed and he's trying new things, but you're having sex five days a week, which is, I think that's super healthy. But I'm curious, like, has there been a marked change?

Like, did he just start trying new things a week ago? Or did it start to seem like new because you saw the stuff? I think that it's probably been maybe, like, in the past four or five months, he's been here a year. I've been here maybe eight months or so. Okay. Like I said, I've dumbled on a couple of inappropriate necessary. messages that made me sell anything.

I mean, I always just felt like I was on a pedestal with him. I see. So they were a message. So you actually saw messages. I'm just trying to understand. So you saw like an exchange from somebody. Yeah. It was,

and it really was pretty innocent, but he had reached out to somebody from high school. And there was some messages. There was nothing sexual in them, really, other than one of the girls, there were like three. And I think it was more of an easy.

go boost or something like that. Like on Facebook. It just hurt my feelings that of course. He would do that. And of course I feel super inexperienced because I've had

sex with two people in my entire life and I was married to both of them. Christy, so here's a thing. There's a certain journey. Maybe it is important for you to kind of figure out what does turn you on. There's no way you would know after being with two people for all these years,

you know? I didn't know. I was 35 years old. I didn't know. I was with a lot of people and I was like, no one. I thought it was all about pleasing my partner. I thought sex was about pleasing a man and performing. And so I had to learn that too. So there's like a two-partyer.

I think it would be great for you to talk with her husband and say, I know when you ask me, I want to learn together. Would you be willing to use some like mutual masturbation, finding porn that actually works for you and just not to please him? And maybe this would be something new and exciting that, you know, I love that he asks what you want. It sounds like he really wants to be a great lover to you. wants to please you. It sounds like it, and that if you guys could maybe make this exploration

part two of like your, or, you know, your sex life 2.0 right now about exploring together what turns both of you on. That could be interesting. What do you think, Sarah? I think sometimes it's about having the, having the vocabulary around sex. And that can be really challenging when I, you know, I do Kink 101 classes and people are just like, I know that there are things that I can do, but I don't know what they are or what would feel good for me. One of the tools that I've recommended is to do what's called a yes, no, maybe list. And it's basically a list of different things. It might say like anything from, you know, oral sex to massage to you can get kinky versions of it.

But what it does is it gives you a list that you can kind of go through. You can do one separately from your husband and you can circle like, yes, I'm into this. No, I'm not really into that. Maybe I don't know enough about this to know whether I'm up for it or not. But you can kind of get this list of things that you can consider one at a time. Hey, is this something that might be awesome for me to try? And then the two of you can compare those lists and look for the yeses. And look for the yeses and maybe.

Because it starts developing a language of pleasure for the two of you. The other thing is even if porn is not something that turns you on, I would suggest picking up some erotica. I really love, like, the short story erotica anthologies. You can get them on your Kindles, so nobody knows that you're reading porn. But sometimes it's like reading through that gives you an idea of like, oh, it was really hot when he tied her up or it was really hot the way that, you know, she picked this person up in a bar. And so you can kind of build a fantasy library for yourself that can then help you when you have that conversation. with your sweetie and you say like, hey, I want to do more exploring. Can we talk about some things?

And keep in mind that a lot of men have a lot of shame around their sexuality. We kind of don't necessarily give them the okay that, hey, it's okay for you to have sexual desires outside of what we've really specifically told men that they're allowed to do. So, you know, approaching it from a, hey, I see you trying new things. I see you like wanting to explore. I want to be there with you. I want to do this with you as your wife. I think could potentially help diminish some of that shame as well. Yeah, without judgment and saying, I'm in it with you, babe.

We've both been together for 20 years. Let's play. Let's have fun. We actually have a yes, no, maybe list on our site at sex withemily.com. I sign up for a free hashtag open class. I mean, like, I think it is partial education and exploration because I totally get, Christy, that you don't even know what's on the menu. You're like, I want to know, but I've never explored.

So it's partially like educating yourself through all these great ways. Sarah mentioned and also just having a healthy conversation with your partner and also remembering it's not a one-time conversation like this won't be solved one night at dinner with him right but it becomes part of something that you're it's like a new think of it like a new sport or a new hobby that you guys are taking up together and that hobby is your sexual intimacy great okay of course christie i'll be here for you you can just have the first conversation let me know it goes okay thank you for calling christie appreciate you Of course. Thank you for calling. All right. Sarah Sloan's here. Sarah Sloans from that hashtag open. We have

history. We both worked together in the industry and Sarah's worked in sex education. So I want to talk to you about what's happened with Jerry Falwell Jr. And there was a lot of press about it. He was the former chancellor and president of Liberty University, the country's largest Christian university. And what came out is, I think there was a few allegations and then finally he had to step down from post about cuckolding. Okay? So cuckolding is the, you know, the fantasy of watching his partner have sex in this case

with another man. It's a common fantasy and it is one that has a lot of shame around it. Let's just talk about cuckolding for a moment. So I want to just kind of say like a lot of people are assigning cuckolding to the fall wells. And like the old school dictionary definition

and we know how long dictionary definitions are good for basically says that the cuckold is the man whose wife has stepped out on him without his consent. And so, like, there's that piece. But we don't know the content of what his relationship with his wife was. They, for all we know, and it sounds like from one of the reports, that this was consensual, that they were consensually bringing a third person into the bedroom, that he was watching.

And whether he was watching because he's a voyeur and he really wants to do that, whether he's watching because his wife, you know, He likes seeing her pleasure, which is the word compersion, gets used a lot in non-monogamy circles to talk about getting pleasure from your partner's pleasure. It could be that there's a little bit of a humiliation aspect in it, which is what we call like the new definition of cuck holding. But we know that there was some additions of more people. We know that at least one of them is being presented as being consensual.

It seems like there are some other ones. But in most cases, it feels like that this is something that he was aware of. But I think that the way that we structure kind of morality in this country is that it's not okay for you to admit that you are engaged in a consensual threesome, especially when you're somebody who is kind of like literally the head of the representation. of the moral majority. Literally. And so it really, and, you know, we were talking a little earlier as well

about that this is such a profound fantasy for so many people. You know, the numbers of men who have fantasized about their wife having another sexual partner is well up into the 50% over. So the average man has fantasized about this. Exactly.

We hear about them too, and there's a lot of shame around it, which I think, again, you're right, such a good point that Vermont means from what I, read what you've probably all read if you read about the news it was consensual it was an ongoing relationship with somebody who they kept seeing together to me it sounds like that's how a lot of these fantasies kind of unfold um and i don't like the work i don't like cuckolding i feel like

what did you say they call it now just uh come not compersion but you call today um cuckolding has a little bit more of a flavor of erotic humiliation erotic cumulation because yes yeah i love the term compersion because so many people just think like i i can't imagine that that would ever somehow give me pleasure to see my partner have pleasure, which is, I mean, a lot of us get hug up on like, how could he watch his wife be with someone else? And 52% in studies,

this is by this Justin Laymeller, who studies a lot of these fantasies, it says that heterosexual men, 52% said they fantasize about watching their partner of sex with someone else. And the basic premise is kind of intuitive in the sense of like a lot of fantasies when we're told we don't want, or we can't do something, We want it even more.

I think we can all relate to that, right? We want it more. And that does create a risk. If you're going to violate a taboo, that creates a greater risk. But the interesting thing is, when he talked about that people in this particular article that men who are more on the right politically

tend to have this fantasy more often than people who are on the left politically or more conservative people tend to have this fantasy. And the people on the left are more into BDSM and that's more of their fantasy. And I just find it interesting you break down a political divide. There's a lot of the structure of kind of like the patriarchy. So like this very like men are the head of the household,

men are responsible for everything. You know, they're the spiritual leaders or they're the financial leaders of their home. There's a lot of that that's kind of wrapped up in kind of concurrent right-wing thinking. And so the big violation there is that the man loses control of what his wife can do. And so for a lot of men, having your partner have sex with another man is literally a challenge to masculinity

in a way that I think for some people, that can be really hot because it really does kind of pull that taboo right up to the surface of what would happen if my wife was sexually pleasureed by somebody else. So there's like this really dynamic tension for a lot of people. On the other hand,

I know a lot of guys who are on the left wing who go to swing clubs that go to swing clubs because they really like watching their partner have sex with other people and it's fun and there's no that tension isn't there. It's just that's not the thing for them. And that's like the question of whether or not it's healthy. The relative health is kind of not really the big thing to debate to me. The question is, is everybody going into it with a sense of curiosity and a sense of authentic consent and when it's over with do you feel good about it in retrospect that to me is how

we break out what a healthy sexual life is and that could be cuck holding that could be you know tying your partner up that could be having really amazing monogamous missionary position sex with maybe a toy every once in a while there's no right or wrong in that it's but the the question is whether we're creating a space with our partners where we can say hey you know i think it'd be really hot if we like talk dirty to each other or if we you know cruise together on a dating app you know that's that's where the health of a relationship and that's where the health of sexuality comes from it's such a great definition of it that it's like you don't want to wake up with the shame over like you want to make sure that you feel good about the act afterwards but it starts with curiosity

and openness couples can actually have very healthy relationship we don't know what happened with his relationship hopefully was healthy I think the part that probably wasn't healthy was that he was hiding it but in many relationships and you probably see this in your work as well like we rather live a life not fulfilling my fantasy than actually try some things that actually could work out like maybe people have this fantasy of wanting to see their partner with somebody else or try BDSM but they just don't know where to start and I know you educate on this as well you know what are you find do you find couples coming together and ask questions about opening up or what comes up what's the first step usually for couples

Or individuals. That's a really great question. I think a lot of people come in and feel like I have this thing that I've been thinking about, what are the steps that I need to take? And a lot of times they want technique. I have to say it really amazes me constantly the quality of members that we have in app because we've got a lot of people who they're kind of like, okay, so we've had the conversation about deep consent.

We're working on this. And it's always kind of like this moment as an educator. where you're like, yay, because you got it. I think that for a lot of people, it's the first step is figuring out that it's okay for them to have that desire and then figuring out how they can share it with somebody else without feeling shamed or judged. And I was that person when I was in my late 20s. You know, I wanted to try some stuff and my soon-to-be future ex-husband was just not down

with it. But the way that he responded kind of reinforced this idea that my desire. were shameful. And so, and when we were talking with Christy earlier, one of the things that I really wanted her to hear is like, hey, you know, we come to the table when we're talking about sex with a lot of deep-seated shame. Like we are not living in a culture that tells us it's okay to have the bodies that we have. And so to acknowledge for our partner, hey, I want to make space for you to just tell me what you're into, even if it's not something I want to do, we can find a way to fantasize about it or we can find a way to kind of scratch that itch a little bit.

can be such a gift of grace for our partners. And it also reflects back on to us. If we're creating a space where we're not going to judge or shame our partners or our friends when they disclose to us, then maybe we can internalize some of that and not judge or shame ourselves for what are entirely normal and perfectly healthy fantasies and desires. It's all right.

It's all okay. That's so true that part of her job is sex educators is really just saying it's okay, it's healthy, you're okay. and then teaching us how to talk to our partners and recognize their shame. Part of being sexually healthy is acknowledging that we're all sexual beings and we have desires and we might not understand them

but feeling that we have a partner that can listen and giving that space and saying, I don't really understand your request, but I'm here to listen. Let's learn more together. Putting words around it. You were so right earlier when you said, so what do you even have the words.

Not only the words describe what we're into, but the words to even be a compassionate. passionate, empathic partner. We're just not taught how to really communicate like that. I remember going to marital counseling over two decades ago, and they gave me that really simple, when this happens, I feel this way, and I would like for this next time.

And that was the first step in me being able to have a conversation with a partner that was authentic. I also really love reading books about emotional intelligence, because I think that, you know, the same communication skills that we use in our relationships with our partners in the bedroom, those communication skills work really well in the rest of our lives. Which ones have you read Lately that you're into? I've been rereading Sonia Taylor's The Body is Not an Apology, which is an amazing book.

Amazing, amazing, amazing. I don't think I know it. She created the website, The Body Is Not an Apology.com. A lot of it deals with radical body acceptance, and it talks about folks who are queer, it talks about folks who are people of size, it talks about folks with physical disabilities, and it really is about that we all have the right to exist in our body with love and to get the things that feel good for us. It's about sexual power. It's also about getting our emotional needs, Matt, and getting our basic physical needs met, and that all of that kind of together is, is what creates a whole person. We can't just skip any one part of ourselves if we want to be a whole person.

Right, exactly. I mean, that is the work. It's so, that's so interesting. Like, in going back to Christy, it's so true because it's like there was so much there to unpack where, yes, I wondered of healthy conversations with her husband, but it does all start with ourselves. My listeners are so brave for calling in even and asking their questions

because it's like, I know that they've never talked about their sex life, really are thought about it or to even say, but okay, the first step is loving ourselves and we're even liking ourselves. Where does that start? And doing some work around it. And that's why I always encourage people to have these conversations

before you get married, if we can. But it's never too late. Yes, I love this. So, okay, let's tell. What's coming up next for a hashtag open that people want to come to an event? You also have a YouTube series. You can actually see all of our previous 20-some episodes

of our hashtag open. We've been doing this for since the beginning of quarantine. That's it for today's episode. Thank you so much for listening to Sex with Emily. And if you love the show, please like, subscribe, and leave a review wherever you get your podcast. And hey, share this with a friend or a partner.

It might just spark something. It usually does. You can find me on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Facebook, and X. It's all at Sex with Emily. Oh, and I've been told I give really good email. So sign up at sex withemly.com for free guides and articles and more ways to prioritize your pleasure.