Sex With Emily - Liberated Love vs Codependent Love

Episode Date: January 13, 2026

EPISODE SUMMARY Mark Groves is a human connection specialist who transformed his own painful relationship patterns into wisdom he now shares with millions. In this episode, Mark opens up about the Thanksgiving dinner betrayal that shut him down at 19, the years he spent as an emotionally unavailable guy, and the breakthrough that finally let him receive love. In this episode we dig into codependency, why chemistry fades, and what it actually takes to build a relationship where you can be fully yourself. In this episode, you'll learn: • Why a failed one-night stand taught Mark more about himself than years of relationships • The real definition of codependency and why it's not just about addiction • How to identify your "Thanksgiving dinner moment" that shaped how you love • Why the space between partners disappears and chemistry dies in long-term relationships • The question that reveals if you're being codependent in the bedroom • What "liberated love" looks like and why truth-telling is the foundation • How Mark and his wife broke up, had a closing ceremony, and came back stronger • Why your capacity to love equals your capacity to lose • The three things you can do now to get on the path toward the love you want • How parenthood changes intimacy and why the six-week clearance is misleading • What to do when you can't stop fantasizing about past flings while in a relationship More Dr. Emily:  • Shop With Emily! Explore Emily’s favorite toys, pleasure accessories, bedroom essentials, and more — designed to support your pleasure and confidence. Free shipping on orders $99+ (some exclusions apply). • Join the SmartSX Membership: Access exclusive sex coaching, live expert sessions, community building, and tools to enhance your pleasure and relationships with Dr. Emily Morse. • Sex With Emily Guides: Explore pleasure, deepen connections, and enhance intimacy using these Sex With Emily downloadable guides. • The only sex book you’ll ever need: Smart Sex: How to Boost Your Sex IQ and Own Your Pleasure • Want more? Visit the Sex With Emily Website • Let’s get social: Instagram | X | Facebook | TikTok | Threads | YouTube • Let’s text: Sign up here • Want me to slide into your email inbox? Sign Up Here for sex tips on the regular. This episode is sponsored by…  Bellesa  "EVERYONE who signs up wins a FREE toy or gift card! https://www.bboutique.co/vibe/emilymorse-podcast" Qualia Magnesium, multiplied. 10 forms for total support. Go to https://qualialife.com/SEXWITHEMILY to get 50% off and save an extra 15% with the code SEXWITHEMILY. Timestamps: 0:00 - Introduction 3:13 - How Mark Started Sharing Vulnerable Relationship Advice  8:31 - The Thanksgiving Dinner That Changed Everything  16:00 - Finding Your "Moment" That Shapes How You Love  20:13 - What Is Codependency Really?  30:04 - Signs You're in a Codependent Pattern  33:51 - Why Couples Stop Having Sex (It's Not What You Think)  39:17 - How Parenthood Changes Your Sex Life  51:01 - Use Your Relationship to Become Everything  54:53 - Listener Question: Can't Stop Thinking About Past Flings  1:02:55 - Quickie Q&A

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That's common confidential.com. Today I get to speak to a guest who I admire so much. Mark Groves is the definition, of a person who talks to talk and walks the walk. He's a human connection specialist, a emotional translator. He helps he will become their most authentic loving selves in a fun and relatable way through his writing, speaking, and coaching, as well as his podcast, books, and courses. Mark is the founder of Create the Love, an author of the book, Liberated Love, about how to release codependent patterns, which he wrote with his wife, Kylie. He's made his

mission to help people through sharing his own personal struggles. He has a no-nonsense way of giving relationship advice with a little bit of tough love and a whole lot of knowledge. But he wasn't always on this path. And what I really love about him is his ability to own his own shit and guide the rest of us to do the same. His advice has certainly inspired me to reflect on my own relationships. And I know it's going to resonate with you too. Welcome, Mark. My God, I'm so excited to be here. I'm so excited to have you here. That's set a high standard. I better get my poop in a group here. Well, you do. I mean, honestly, I just remember watching you through the pandemic. And you really just watching your videos and your messaging and it just so resonated with so many people. When were you

like, oh yeah, people are getting this when you started getting that reaction from the audience, your listeners, your fans? Yeah, you know, when I first started writing, the intention was to kind of use it as a way to excise my shame. So when I started to study relationships, it was because I had a relationship that ended and I was at the time in sales and I was good at sales. So I thought, why am I so good at talking about everything about my feelings? Like this isn't a skill set issue. There's actually something else going on here. So I dove deep into the science. I wanted to understand like what makes relationships work, what makes them not. It was just selfish. It was for me. And I started to realize like no one taught me any of this. Like why was I taught the Pythagorean theorem but not how to resolve

conflict or not use gaslighting or whatever it was that I was actually an excellent gaslighter? I would learn something and then I would write about some of the most shameful, painful moments of my life and translating it into wisdom or what was my experience of, for me was wisdom. Also, it was just like vulnerable, courageous shares. Like I wrote a article called Why You Really Can't Get Hard, which is like, what dude writes an article about the time he tried to have a one-night stand and he couldn't get a boner for the first time in his life? And I was so terrified he didn't publish on that and then I would get messages from people men and women that was so resonant for me it's brave i mean i think you really are this example to so many men which is what i love that you

you show what vulnerability is you're not just saying you should be vulnerable and i think a lot of us don't even understand what it means to be vulnerable to be emotionally available which i love is like your stories that you actually were that guy like your 20s or 30s right you were kind of that guy that something's wrong here was the guy i do videos about now like he's unavailable let me tell you some things. You're not doing them any favors by chasing him. Like that's, it's like, no nonsense. No BS. You're just kind of like, this is how you do it. But what I like to is that you do speak to all genders, right? It's not just like men and women. What do you think it is that men need to hear today? And that's the answer every woman has been trying to figure out. Really? Well, you know, when you think about.

With love though, not with nagging them, but like, what do they? Right. Right. Like, how do I invite someone to meet me in a level of commitment, a level of communication. And I think it's so layered. I think the first part is that when we invite men to that, the conversation about masculinity is that masculinity is toxic. But that's not masculinity that's toxic. It's unintegrated pain. It's trauma. It's that men are not socialized to be connected to their emotions. When a man is, let's say, in a relationship with a woman, and the woman is saying, I just can't feel you. We look at the research and baby boys and baby girls are treated differently from the moment of inception. Unconsciously, you know, we do that.

And so it's just like, I notice I have a son now. He's 11 months old. And I notice with him, I'm like, ah, you're good. You know, my wife is very different with him, you know, where she's like, it's okay. And I'm like, it's okay. But there's like, he can handle a little. But if I had a little girl, I think I would be a little different. I'd probably be more like her, right?

So I see that that is within me, too. I think what men need to be invited to meet their partners in that space, but also giving grace for the fact that if they're going to step into being emotionally vulnerable and open and actually become emotionally fluent, outside of like leadership sales, although those are translational skills, they have to rebel against the definition of masculinity. In the moment that you start to connect emotionally and see the value in your sensitivity, you have to at the exact same moment rebel against everything you've been taught. so your identity and where you think your value lives has to die in order to be connected to your partner, which I also think the paradox of that, and you look at like Brne Brown's research, it's like the moment a man is emotional or vulnerable or cries, he's seen as weak. So by his partner. So it's like we want emotional men, but do we? We know that if a man is crying on a battlefield, that's not a dude you want beside you. That's why it's so tricky. Maybe it would be helpful

of you shared your story a little bit, your journey. Because when I say like you were that guy, like could you just give us the kind of the cliff notes? Like if I'm sitting here with Mark at 20 and now Mark 45, a lot of us could see ourselves, even myself. I used to blame guys for being emotionally available. Then I realized that I was emotionally available. That was part of my work. So it's really all genders. It's equal opportunity. But walk us through it real quick. Well, at 20, I would have had Pooka shell necklace on and so frosted tips. Let's maybe a quick silver t-shirt. in or something? Oh, no, like pull through the little helmet.

Oh, okay. You know, the little hooks. If that makes a comeback along with 90s style, I'm all in. So in my teens, I really loved all out. You know, my brother nicknamed me Sensator when I was a kid because I was sensitive. So I guess if I was a dinosaur, it would have been a sensitive dinosaur, which probably means a dead dinosaur. Yeah. And so I was very sensitive.

And when I entered my first relationship in, like, my main biggest one in high school, I just loved all out. Like I didn't, I would say I didn't have boundaries around where I directed it, but at the time I would have identified as being, I'm just, I just love love, you know. And I would have said that relationships came easy to me. That's what I desired. I was in a serial monogamous. And my first and second relationship ended with infidelity on the other side.

And it was in the second relationship that it ended. When you hear the story for you listening or watching, you're going to be like, Oh, God. Yeah. My girlfriend in university, she went away on a scholarship for sports to the states. I'm from Canada. And when she went to went away, we were about, I think we were together about like 15 months or 16 months. And we agreed that, you know, here she is going on this like amazing adventure. What an opportunity. And I'm like really in love. And, you know, I'd think that she was too. And we agreed that we could see other people. We would just tell each other about it. That probably doesn't go well. She comes back and visits at Canadian Thanksgiving. And she comes back and one of her best friends had already gone to, they bring their friend. And their friend, he just happens to be built like Kedonis, also the running back of the football team. So this is great. And I'm sitting at Thanksgiving dinner.

And I think she was like sitting to my right. He was sitting across from me and her parents were sitting to my left. And I remember all of a sudden all the pieces coming together like, there's something going on. here. And you know, if I had boundaries or if it was like medieval times, I probably would have thrown the table up, taking a sword out, you know, defended my honor. I did not do that. I ate my mashed potatoes and didn't say anything. And my memory of that night was saying goodbye to her at the bottom of the stairs of her house and saying, is this how you tell me? And she was like, yeah. And I left that house different than entering that house. What I made that experience mean

was that when I love people, they betray me. I can't trust myself. I'd spent my time until that moment, which was about 19, really believing in love. And while some, not all my friends, but some men that I hung out with, I played sports, you know, you're in your locker room, you're not talking about like, oh man, I just like,

my girlfriend and I are at two years and we just like really figured out how to go deeper in intimacy, you know, people are talking about blow jobs and whatever. Did you not get late? Right, right. No one's like, oh, we had really tantric sex last night. we did the wheel barrel.

Like, no one's talking about that unless it was a one-night stand wheel barrel. So. I don't recommend that. Yeah, it's not great. I've tried that. How you don't know what their balance is like at that point. Yeah, you don't have enough information to be doing acrobatic shit. So the article that I wrote about why you really can't get hard that is relevant to this

because never break up right before Halloween. I think that's a bad strategy because Halloween is like when really everyone kind of, you know, sexes it up a little bit. So I went out for a Halloween party and when I'd never had a one night stand, I'd never kissed anyone I didn't like. Like I didn't know that world, but now in my unconscious mind, I'm like, love leads to pain. So I'm going to try this other side of things. And also I don't know that, and I'm sure you have a lot of thoughts on this, but like unconsciously

I'm also thinking if I can control intimacy, not only am I still maintaining desire and experiencing arousal, but I can control the depth of intimacy. and I can still have value in my peers. They won't see how much in pain I am. So I take a girl home to my parents' house, which one night stand 101, not parents' house. No. Like, what a horrible idea.

Clearly I'm so bad at this. So she's dressed like the devil, which is not lost upon me. And I'm talking all this shit about all the things that are going to happen. Right. And, you know, I go to all. All systems are check, you know. And then I can't get an erection.

The worst. It was the worst because it never made, I had no data. I had no, I didn't know that your values are connected to your ability. To your penis. Right. It can be. And it's more, it's more outside for a man. So it's like more obvious.

That's how we can fake it so well that men can't. Right. Like there's loop to violate your boundaries, you know, but for me there was not, you know, I needed a shoehorn or something. It was like putting a marshmallow in a piggy bank. And that actually began that journey of sort of more of that. I mean, now that term would be more like becoming a fuckboy. But it was really, I was just in pain.

And I actually probably spent two years in that. And then just trying to figure it out. And I realized that if I drank enough, I could diminish my sensitivity to my own value system. And I then met the woman that I eventually had the breakup that woke me up to relationships and wanting to understand things. but I remember when I was 35, I was on a call with a friend and she said to me, and I was writing about relationships at this point. And she said to me, you know a lot about a lot of things,

but I want to know have you ever actually let a woman love you? And you know that feeling when someone tells you a truth and you're like, yeah? And then I got off the call. And I was like, holy shit. I haven't let a woman love me since that Thanksgiving. And just like how many tried to? and I like ran from and I didn't know why you know it like expressed as a lack of chemistry not alignment you know I loved women who were just out of relationships or like not available

live somewhere else gosh great like we'll figure it out I would chase them right right yeah and that hit me like just so hard and I just thought I'm not going to let that happen anymore like I've allowed what happened at 19 because I didn't know how to process grief I I didn't have a mentor who could walk. I didn't let anyone in to do that. It was so painful. And so I think about like that. Shut it.

Right. That definition of masculinity of like because I didn't have access or I would say like societal permission to grief. You know, it's not like I'm pretty lucky. My dad is really emotionally intelligent. He's the one who I would talk to about heartbreaks and things like that. But I didn't let him into that. I had so much shame about being cheated on. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. So. That was a long story. No, I love the story. Well, you know what it made me think so many things. But the first thing is that by sharing that, would you say that everybody has that moment that you had that affects why we're in relationships and why we do what we do?

Like in thinking about that, because I feel like that's a lot of what you do with, you help people realize like there's that moment that I shut down why I'm not able to love, why I can't let people in. And like I think that's a thing that and it's not just men either. It's women. And in talking to you, I'm thinking about for me and I still think I struggle with. this, but I had something similar at 19. I had a lot of things before that, but my dad died suddenly. And for me, he was 49, and it was like, I know that I shut down to, and before that, my parents had

gotten divorced. So I had a lot of evidence that, like, relationships were tough and people leave. And then he died one day. And it was just like, oh, I can't ever, like, love again. I can't let I went in. And I spent the same thing. Like, part of me led to my work at 35 because I was like, oh, this isn't working. Everybody else wants relationships and seems happy. Come to find out a lot of people aren't happy in their suffering, so you're still on a path. But it's like, so I'm wondering, like, that was my moment. And I still, it's ever goes away.

But it's like, oh, God, someone's going to leave me if I love. So I'm just shut down. And I was very much, I think I was a fuck girl, to be honest. I think we're very similar. I liked unavailable people. I played around. I actually was a cheater in my past life. And it just didn't feel good.

I was getting the highs from it. How do we source? Like, how do we, like, you had that wise friend. and you leaned into it, you were ready to lean into the truth. And it sounds like maybe the last 10 years, you've been like, you're never done, right, peeling back the layers. But like, how can we? Because I guess what I'm asking is,

do you think we all have that place that shifted the course of the way we love and when we commit? Yeah, for sure. Whenever I tell that story, which I get emotional about, not because it's- Seeing the tears. I'm like, oh, I'm emotional too. Yeah, it's not because it's incomplete or unresolved.

It's actually because I can connect with the younger version of myself who, like, was in such pain. And I don't want to leave that. I like that I can actually now be so connective as opposed to like I drank to not feel that. Even though there was so much wisdom in the betrayal, that Thanksgiving dinner, I only got to because I agreed that we could see other people and tell each other about it. But I actually didn't want that. So like my external betrayal was an internal betrayal long before.

And I would say almost all, but not all external betrayals are preceded by internal betrayals of self. And I always ask people like, what's your thing? Thanksgiving dinner moment because what I do is I have people finish the sentences when I love people they, when I let people love me, I, you know, because both of those we had those sentences get completed. We like to optimally think I love them back. They love me. But there's usually a fear, especially if we're repeating patterns, relationally, repeating patterns in conflict, repeating patterns in types. So we're unconsciously reliving the same moments. And what I think it really, what I've figured it out to be true for me, is that we have an upper limit of tolerance of what sort of grief

we can tolerate and what sort of pain we have capacity for. So we unconsciously control relationships so that we never get to the Thanksgiving dinner again. But what we're doing is actually living in the dinner. We build these strategies, whether it's unconsciously who we choose or our high standards, quote unquote, that make it so we are never going to get there again. What we don't realize is in the brilliance of the moment is actually the skill set to go past it. I firmly believe that your capacity to love someone is always mirrored by your capacity to lose them because when you love someone, you are in the moment signing up for the loss of them. So if a breakup means you lose yourself, then you're not ever going to fully open to

because you're going to always be protecting from the losing of self. And I'm saying if you lost yourself because someone left, then that actually is the greatest gift because you realize yourself doesn't live in their staying or going. It lives in you already. And so that, I mean, I think is that truly at the core of codependency too is this like, if you're okay, I'm okay. If I'm enough, you're enough. You're going to need me.

I'm going to need you. So let's then, let's talk about codependency for a minute. How would you define? I feel like this is what I love about you. Like you really kind of get people to understand some of these like headier things or things that are just like hard to get into hard to understand if we're in it or not well codependency traditionally is associated with relationships with addiction right like allanon and codependent no more which is a fabulous book written by melody beady is based on alanon and so we see like oh

you're not in a relationship with an addict you must not be codependent how my wife and I really look at it because we wrote the book together and we were living out the the healing of those patterns and we tell our story in the book and also because we were together five years broke up four a bit we call that the sacred pause and then got back together we call that relationship 2.0 is that you're sourcing your safety security your needs at the cost of yourself like at the cost of yourself so there's an abandonment of self in order to maintain connection you know and i love my friend terry cool talks about it as like you're overtly invested in the outcomes of others every step of the way you're saying that we just abandumable

and ourselves because we want to be a pleaser or we want to be loved so badly that we are not able to advocate for ourselves so we become I guess complacent we become whoever we need to be in order to maintain connection you know you think about at the root of like my wife and I's pattern was my baseline yeah what it looked like in those five years before you yeah well mine was because you know and now I'm like I'm never going to be with anyone unavailable okay that's not going to happen so then I set this standard of like here's what I want to create. Here's what it is.

I'm explicit about it. And my wound at the base of how I related was no one chooses me. Like you don't choose me. That was your message. That was the Thanksgiving dinner message that you told yourself was that no one's going to choose me. I'd say that was even true earlier. Okay. Because how I oriented to my family, I'm the youngest, I found that I really oriented around

my mom's needs. You know, she would often be overwhelmed. She was raising three kids, you know, all the realities of being a human. And as a kid, I was like, well, if my mom's okay, I'm okay. And so when we orient around other people, which at the baseline, that could be someone in a relationship with someone who's, you know, as a kid, your parents are addicts, they're narcissists, they're abusive, they're not around. Like there's all these different ways.

Yeah, and we just normalized the fact that your parents did something that's impacting you now. They didn't mean to. They were living their life. There was a lot of information then, but there's something to excavate from our childhood. Yeah, always. And in the book, we go through like, what's your relationship? blueprint so you can figure out what that is. So for me, it was no one, you don't choose me.

My wife's was, there's something wrong with me that I can't choose this relationship. So if you think about it, it's perfect. I have an Instagram called Create the Love. I teach people about relationships. You couldn't monetize a wound better. First off, I'm going to be needed by you. I've got courses. You're going to pay to be taught by me. I've got an Instagram where I get validated. And I'm out there now like helping everyone, just like sourcing. so much validation. And also, if there's something wrong and you need help with it, I've got the solution. Well, that doesn't work in a relationship because in order to maintain connection, and this happens in codependent dynamics, one person has to maintain being a problem

that needs to be solved and the other person is the problem solver. So if all of a sudden, and we see this in addiction, if the one person heals the addiction, the other person starts to go bananas because they don't have a job anymore. Right. So with us, my wife had a job. My wife had dream early in our relationship that she was in a burning house and she had to leave and the burning house was our relationship. So I'm like out for a run one day and I'm just like, yeah, yeah. So now I'm a house and I'm like out for a run one day and I'm like, man, I really chasing her right now and it's driving me bananas. So I'm like, hey, I'm just sensing that when I like get you, you distance and then you pursue and then you distance and I'm like, I don't want to do that. And so like,

can we talk about that? And she's like, Frick, I had this dream and it's terrifying me. I don't want to leave, but I had like, it was so visceral. So we talk about it and she's like, I'm going to see somebody about it. So this is like a year in. We spend the next. So it's a year into the relationship. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We were together for the first time for four and a half, five years. So she goes to, we work, talk about it. But at the underneath all this, in my unconscious is our relationship was a burning house and she might leave in any moment. You can't hear anything else after that. She better resolve it. And she was trying. I mean, God bless her.

She was like, what's wrong with me? I have a burning house dream even now. But she also was like it was so real. Like I got to go. So eventually we read enough books, did the things. You guys have done it all. But we didn't have someone who could guide us past this pattern that was really being invited, which there was a day where I was like, listen, I want to create a life and I want to do it with you.

And if you can't do it, that's okay. I love you. but I'm not going to hold. That was your first boundary. Like, I've been through this too many times. This is what I want. It was like I finally chose me. The wound I was living out, I finally chose myself.

And she, in that moment, you could feel like she felt relief because I still loved her. And she couldn't figure out why she had to go. And what transitioned was, I said to her, instead of orienting to your dream and your intuition, that something's wrong with you that you have to go. What happens if you actually just have a deep knowing, what's coming up for you is coming up for me. I just can't put a name to it, but it was my chasing.

So we oriented to what was coming up for her from a place of reverence, and we ended the relationship. And it was like one of the most powerful experiences of my life. We did a closing ceremony for the relationship. I mean, that's so beyond. People are like, I can't, I blocked my partner on Instagram and burning.

knew her. Throughout their clothes out the window. Like, you know what I mean? You're like, we had a ceremony and like lit sage and. I mean, we actually, I know, I know. We burned a house. You burned a house? We bought, not an actual house.

We bought a bird house. Okay. And we represented the house from her dream just to say like, you're wise. There was nothing broken about you. Like, we got to the place you intuitively had in a dream four years later. Like. That's so beautiful. Yeah.

Honestly, it was the most. And then you broke up, you had this closing ceremony, and then you found your way back. Yeah, we were done. Like I was done. I was no interest in getting back together. I was no interest of going back in a pattern because now I experienced choice. I trusted myself. And if you don't have access to a no, you don't have access to an authentic yes.

And neither of us had access to an authentic no yet, but we found it. So now the choice of each other actually doesn't come with any, what happens if I hurt your feelings? what happens if we don't align. None of that now. It's like we have a dedication to truth. Liberated love is a dedication to truth. And it's also having positive regard for your partner, but also their own path, their own journey, you know,

which I never thought I'd be able to live, you know? After the breakup, you mean? I just never thought, like, if you had asked 20-year-old Pooka-Shelf Frost-Tips, Mark, like, could you be with someone and acknowledge the truth that at some point you, your past might depart, which is true for everybody. Everybody.

Some of your partner could, yeah, die, meet someone else. Like, there's always the chance of loss when you love deeply, yep. Which makes you have to acknowledge the deep truth, you know, that if they can go, that means they're choosing to not go, which means there's value in their choice, which means what a beautiful thing to give to somebody. You could gift it to so many people and they gift it to you. Well, I better be pretty good to keep that, you know what I mean? Wow.

I mean, there's so much there. Mark, I'm going back to two things now because, like, this is such a great example, like your wisdom. But I want to go back to one thing. Is there a pattern around this emotionally? All the couples who've reached out to you, what does that look like? How does it show up? And then how do we know if we should stay or go?

Big question. That's a big question. Well, the first part of, like, how do you know stuff is showing up? If you're even thinking about looking it up, it's showing up, you know, that's pretty easy. The second one is, if you have just repeated relational outcomes. who you're attracting, who you're... Like, it's so interesting to me that someone will unconsciously relate

to people who are married or in relationship and be like, I just keep meeting married men or women. And I'm like, no, there's actually something much deeper in there, and your soul's evolution inviting you to heal something isn't just doing this by accident. Like, your Tinder doesn't have a virus in it. It's not helping to us.

Right. You have something that you call a green flag that other people call a red flag. And that's okay, but let's just get to the root of it. So I'd say like repeated outcomes and relationship, fighting with your partner about the same things over and over again, feeling like you're at an upper limit in your relationship. Like maybe you're disconnected, maybe you're not having sex.

Maybe you feel like resentment towards them, contempt. Any forms of tolering any abuse. Attraction to unavailability is a pretty dating projects, dating people who... Yes, yes, dating projects, where you notice that you're overly invested in your... own appearance of I'm a good person, I'm the better person, I just take care of people. I love All Out. That's a favorite of codependent people.

Like, I just love All Out. Other people don't seem to be able to meet me with a giant capacity that I have for love, which I would have said when I was 17 or 18. To then get to the question of like, how do I know if I should stay or go, which is such a powerful entry to inquiry because if you're asking that at least, you're no longer in an autonomous process in relationship. Like you're no longer on autopy. You're like, oh, I'm questioning. Should you say? Yeah. And we usually get there because we are disconnected from ourselves, you know, and a lot, you know, in the research we talk about things like the honeymoon phase,

which then leads to what they call more companionate love where, you know, the term I like, which is like the fall from grace, like your partner that you revere and is just amazing, all of a sudden becomes a human who farts and doesn't always dress up. You know, like all the different things. And the humanization of them. But what I see happen in longer-term relationships where chemistry, quote-unquote, dies. It always dies. Right, which is, in my thought, is that what actually happens is the space between you and your partner,

the self-abandement, the eradication, self-eratuation of who you are, your identities, your passions, everything like that, which actually creates two individuals, that is gone. So what happens is you actually unconsciously blame your partner and the relationship for you not prioritizing and caring and being in your dreams and prioritizing yourself. So you don't want to bang somebody that you blame for you giving up on yourself, not seeing your friends anymore. You know, once I got this message from this woman where she said, you know, my partner and I have the best relationship.

We have amazing communication. Everything is unreal. But our chemistry is just not there. And I was like, has it ever been there? She was like, yeah, yeah, we used to have amazing chemistry. So that right away tells me that there's something deeper going on. And I said, do you ever not tell him the truth? She was like, no, our like communications dialed.

Like we're honest with each other. We have great conflicts, navigation. And I said, okay, what about when you have sex? And she was like, what do you mean? I was like, all right, so let's say he's going down on you. And he's just not doing what's working. Do you tell him? And she was like, well, no.

I was like, so this fucking guy is down there, his jaws falling asleep, his tongue's now licking his own eye. He's trying every move to like trying to get free lives on a Nintendo. And you're not telling him. Why? And she said, because, well, I don't want to hurt his feelings. And I said, that's it. That's the part where you're not being truth. That's the codependency.

Yeah. Well, how, yeah, I was good. How does it show up in our sex life then? Where do you see it? The codependency showing up. It's that. It's not sharing our authentic truth. because we're so afraid of sharing what we need,

what we want. Think about how, I mean, you know this. It's like you're not even able to fully be authentic in your self-expression for what you actually need explicitly to achieve whatever you want to achieve, which that gets in the way of connection. So it's like a micro version because if it's happening there, I guarantee it's happening elsewhere. You know, like when someone says like we no longer have sex,

Because it's like, you know, that's like a magnifying glass to other things. And some people still have sex and that's the only place they actually experience emotional safety. Yeah, but that's rare. That's definitely rare. But like, okay, so that's interesting. I never, because I would say the majority of couples that I see are going to go through that period. The death of the honeymoon phase. Right.

And this whole like, where, how did I get here? Who was this person in front of me? And I've seen out to reality that's canceling out this chemistry, which we all know is just this, the crazy chemistry in our brain and feel good hormones. that are allowing us to connect someone and that like any drug that goes up, it's going to come down. And we don't have sex anymore. So yeah, I could definitely see that. That's almost a great way of pinpointed that you're actually being codependent by not sharing. Because I'm always trying to get people to talk about their sex life.

It's so complex and so heady. And we're so afraid that either it's something's wrong with us or our partner's going to feel bad. So we just don't talk to them about it. That is a great place to get people to start and be like what is wrong. Well, if you want to heal. And it isn't everywhere in our relationship. It does show I do one thing is how you do everything. Exactly.

And it's like if you want to experience. Like what we call liberated love is interdependence. It's like, can you lay at the altar of your relationship the truth? Like, my wife and I have a dedication to truth above everything. Because, you know, most of us are so afraid that our relationship might end, or we're afraid our partner won't like what we say, or we express a boundary and it won't be honored or respected, which is possible. But it's like, if you keep not sharing what is true for you

because you're afraid of how someone might respond, they are not trusted that they can hold the information. You also reinforce the belief in yourself that you're not worthy of being heard. So you get to blame them for the fact that you're not sharing. And on top of that, the relationship never gets the chance to actually grow and change. It is now a prison. And so why would you want to be intimate with someone that you can't share how you truly feel? Like, I find it wild that when relationships end, then we're like, I'm going to do what I love,

I'm going to pursue my dreams. All of a sudden, like, why are we not doing that in our relationship? And I think to like at 20, if my partner said, you know, especially after my girlfriend went away to the States and brought Adonis home, it's like if someone said to me then I need to go do something and blah. I'd probably have a very controlling, jealous, like I can't, you know, there would be something because I haven't, I don't think her coming fully alive or her going on her path might actually hurt my path. Like if she leaves, which should have been what actually happened, I was just trusting her path. And if I try to control where she goes and what she does and her actually coming fully alive, that's because I'm afraid of my, I'm not doing it. Relationships should be the place where we are liberated from our patterns.

Like the frictions we have in any conflicts, in any relationship, but I'd say especially romantic, are just showing us where our work lies. But what is so interesting about everything that you're saying is that it's such a crutch for us to be the victim, blame someone else for our problems. It's something they did. But really, your reframe is that it's truly an opportunity for growth. And it's a direct roadmap to where we have to do our work. And in fact, I remember therapists at this once,

like you unconsciously choose the partner that's showing you where you need to do the work and where you need to grow. Would you say the majority of the couples who are together, if they are both willing to do the work and look at themselves, that they could make it work if they committed to the process? Like I think at the baseline, if you look at like Stan Takkins' work, he talks about how the reason relationships fail is they fail to make clear agreements at the beginning. A lot of us get married, not even knowing what we're doing. We're like 20 and you're like, I'm Christian, I might as well get married so I can bang.

There's all these different reasons. I'm 25. I've been in this relationship wherever. You know, we all enter relationship as a different person. We have different desires that's going to change as you grow. I meet so many people in their 40s, 50s, 60s who are like, I don't want what I have anymore. And I'm like, that makes sense. You made an agreement at 22 and your relationship, maybe if it was possibly going to be aligned,

it doesn't have the skills. You don't have the skills in the container to actually create what you want to create. So do I think it's possible? 100% is possible. You need someone who can take responsibility, is curious, oriented to growth. I think if you have those as the baseline, like when Kylie and I broke up, I wasn't concerned about finding someone. All I need is someone who wants to grow, has humility, and is ready to change.

And we have aligned visions. But the thing is, I keep thinking, like, why don't we have a relationship contracts? And literally, maybe you have this in your book. I don't know. I've been thinking, like, when else in our lives do we sign a contract forever without checking, like, no expiration date, no renewal of contract? No lawyer present. You're like, okay, forever, cool.

Are you sure you want to say that? Like, till death, do us apart? Like, should we just say? I think it's a metaphorical death, personally. death of the self who said yes because like no matter what if you want to step out of codependent patterns your relationship has to end

like your pattern has to end and it's actually in the willingness for a relationship to end that you're now free to choose it like as I was saying earlier if you don't have access to the no you don't have access to the yes so if you're afraid your relationship's going to end or your partner might leave then you're not actually going to be authentically connected

to the choice in the relationship I mean most people come to me when they've never talked about their sex life ever I'm like, we've been together for, and the thing is, it's not just your 20s. Like, I have people in their 40s, 50s. Literally, my audience is 18 to 83 because most people have never talked about sex and they wake up one day with a partner or they're dating, but let's talk about the couples. And they're like, no, we never, we talk about everything but our sex life.

Right. Or we've never talked about it. And now here we are, what do I want? What do I need? But then there's many other things too. So I suppose to think like some kind of, like anyone who's even dating now, what are the things you think that we could get clearer on to not save us from the pain because we need some of the pain, but like, what are we missing?

Like, what are the questions that we need to ask? I just keep thinking about this renewable contract that they could have if you're committing. Like, we commit every six months or every year. Right. Do we meet our values? We meet our goals. How's our sex life? Well, I think building in that habit of check-in anyways is just so important.

Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah, the sexual check-in. I'll be right back after a quick break for our sponsors. So just stick around. I want to talk about something we don't usually think about when it comes to feeling good in our bodies or in the bedroom. at the gym are just getting through the day. And that's cellular energy. Because when your cells are tired, you feel tired. Your mood, your stamina, your focus, even your desire. So much of that actually starts way deeper than we realize. So I've been trying these longevity, Motopure gummies from Timeline.

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And right now, my friends at Timeline are offering listeners a free three-day trial of mitopure gummies. Just text Emily to 57237. That's Emily to 57237 to claim it. Your cells and honestly your whole body will thank you. Speaking of sex, how's your sex life? Well, after having a kid, definitely different. That's right. Yeah.

We all know that. So, yeah. We don't know. I'm guessing that's, I want to normalize the fact that your sex life is going to take a hit after you. It completely changed for now. But for me, you know, that I see as a season. You know, my wife and I talk about it. We talk about like how vulnerable it is now.

How different it for her especially. For me, I'm like, whoa, I still want to do it. That's great. But I also have to have so much compared. passion for the changes the things her body has been through. And so it's really interesting to explore. And I knew this cognitively before we had a kid, but that, you know, a kid when it touches mom, it needs something. So now when I touch mom, I need something. So there's like this association with need. And so really being mindful of how do we navigate that and how do we actually

create space for like the needs I have, the needs she has to enter back into that. And so sacred space, you know? That's really what it is, normalized people that that's going to happen and expect it. Like, I almost wish, because we also know here how it's such unfair the treatment of like, women go to their doctors, doctors like, you should be good to go out for this baby in six weeks. It's like, that's so not true for so many women. It's like, and just to normalize that it's just not going to be okay. I mean, I love that you figured you would know this, that it's harder and we got to have

compassion and just know that it's a season. It's going to come back again. I mean, my wife's expressive. I mean, my wife's expressive. You'd have to be with someone expressive. I married like a woman who has thoughts and feelings and power. And, you know, that was a difference when we came back together. Like, she really chose me.

And that I was terrified of, but it was everything I always wanted, which is so ironic. But I'd say all that because... You're like, not so much. I kind of like, choosing a little bit too much. We turned down a little bit of that part. Like I didn't mean it. But I love it. It's so hot.

Like the self-expression that she has, the access to her power, her voice, her no. Like, that is hot. boundaries are so sexy. Like when someone's like, it's not okay what you said, you're like, well, tell me more, you know? And with her, what I love is that that act is sacred. It created our child. Like, he's a miracle. Watching her give birth, I remember watching her give birth being like, do you think you could do anything now?

Because I would have tapped out. She's 30-something hours of labor. And I remember thinking what was wild about that was I was like looking at my clock and I'm like, this ends at some point, but I don't know how it ends. And as a man, I want to like resolve her of her pain. But I couldn't do anything other than just be in space with her, like champion her, cheer her on. It created so much reverence, like a deeper love for her that I couldn't have had without that experience. I have a friend who texted me not long ago.

He just had a baby. And he said, hey, like my wife and I haven't had sex in a bit. Is this normal? And I was like, yeah, man. We went to our six week follow up. That's what I meant to say. And we go to our follow-up with our, like, our midwives are also labor and delivery nurses. And we're sitting with them.

And she says, have you guys, so you guys can have sex now. Have you guys had sex? And I was like, I'm sorry. Do people say yes to that? And she was like, well, I mean, sometimes. And I was like, how? First off, there's a baby there all the time. That's not my idea of romance.

And that's where I recognize that that's where the male needs get prioritized over the woman's healing. and the male doesn't have to just sit in the fact that he's not going to have arousal for a little bit. Like turn it into creativity. Turn it into purpose. Hold that space like as a warrior, you know? Instead of like, oh, I can't not jizz for fucking five months. Or you can masturbate, healthy part of the relationship. Like, you don't need her.

She'll be there. She'll be back. I mean, you need her eventually, perhaps. But it's also, you can also like let yourself. You could say jizz on your show, right? Yeah, you could say whatever you wanted our show. I've always wanted to say that. I don't know a podcast.

It's a good one. It's a good throw hip. We don't say J's enough anymore. They don't. There's so many good sexual terms. There aren't. We don't talk about. What else don't we say?

Boner. No, we don't say boner. Yeah. There was one earlier that I heard. And I don't think we gave enough hand jobs either. I think hand jobs can come back. You don't have a lot of view.

You know what a good hand job is. It's a two-handed hand job. Exactly. I know. I know. I just feel like there's just so much about sex that is wrong. They're underrated. Because they're considered first base.

So they're underrated. You're like, oh, here we are, first base. It's like, can we just go to third? Yeah, exactly. Don't get me wrong. Third is pretty good. No, right. They're all good.

But that's a thing. Like, how is there even a hierarchy over stuff that makes you feel good sexually? So true, isn't it? It's like, for me, I would instantly when I started dating be like, oh, God, I love this person. Like, I've already imagined the life. I'm like the chick. You are the chick. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And so I'm like, I've imagined the life. This is amazing. And what was so powerful in our container. was that I would feel that need to be like, oh, we're doing this like it's all in. And then I would realize like, oh, wait, it's not. And is this a fit for me? Because what I did as a kid because I wanted people to choose me.

And if they chose me, then I'm safe. Like if we're in a relationship, you post me on Instagram, things are good. But what that wasn't real. That's not grounded choice. So what I realized was I was actually acting in discernment. Like, is this a good fit for me? is this yes, is it a no? I would say yes to something that wasn't,

which is, of course, like, the pursuit of an unavailable person is giving your attention and your time to someone who you're actually not being discerning about. Why would you ever, like a pre-qualifier for anyone to be your person in whatever capacity that means, is that they actually choose you.

Like, if that's not there, nothing else should be there. Well, would you say that's the whole thing happening now with like situationships and toxic relationships? Because in my opinion, I want to know yours. I feel that a situation ship is just inherently, like there's one person who wants

something different than the other one. They're not communicating and clearly they have a lot of words. Like they're rich, rife with problems. I agree. Like friends with benefits. I think 99.9% of the time because I'm sure there's somebody who's listening. He's like, not me. Which much love.

There is one person who is minimizing what they desire to match the other person's desire. And you know what? that's self-abandement. That's like what that says, that's codependent because it's saying what I actually desire I'm not going to be able to get. I'm not worthy of. So I have to actually hide my desires in friendships, in friends with benefits, in situationships in order to kind to get my need met. But I'm going to be praying that they change their mind, that they fall in, if I blow them enough, they'll love me. No, I guarantee that guy is like, I found this chick

who just loves giving me head and she doesn't want anything. Yeah. It's like wild for me. She keeps hoping if the blow jobs get better, then you're going to love me. But I also want to say this part, though, there is the people who truly, and this is rarer, who are like, I don't have time for a relationship right now, truly. Totally. And they're like, I'm 99.9. I'm with you.

It's not a point out. I always want to like give a shout out. I see you. You're like open and you're giving a few blow jobs. You're going down on a bunch of people. Right. Because you're exploring your craft or your life and you really don't have time and space for relationship right now.

But then you might also be a workaholic and be avoiding intimacy. But you might generally be in a place. it's expressing. That's how it's expressing. So I have so many, like, ways I go with this. Because I actually do know people who are happily, seemingly so at this stage in their life, open, like married and open. Yeah.

So I guess, I think I like friends with benefits better than situationships. Because situationships feel more toxic and unhealthy because people are like coming at you. I have like a situation. It sounds like we've got the, I can't really define it. But friends with benefits is such like, okay, if you really are, I mean, they're pretty much the same thing. But there are healthy expressions of it.

We're just like throwing another. But most people are not. I think like a couple people going through. through a breakup that are like, I want intimacy and connection. I trust you. We have, we treat each other with reverence and respect. You know, I think the one good rule of thumb to have is that if you can't do it, sober, don't do it. Because then you're having to numb yourself to be in a situation. And then you already know that there's no win there. I know that you're sober, right? Yeah. And so many people start drinking at a young age because the thought of being intimate with someone is so terrifying. So they

always marry the sex, they have to have sex and alcohol or their drug of choice. So when they stop that, it's really hard to be intimate because that was actually their crutch. Right. And you think like shame and guilt are so correlated with sex, especially because, you know, let's say, for example, and I'm not, not all religion is like this, but often, it's like if you are aroused or have intimacy, you're going to hell or you're bad, you're dirty, you're whatever. And you grew up that way, right? I grew up Catholic. And that messaging, I remember we were in a class in high school, and they brought this couple in that had sex and had a baby. And basically, the couple was saying, like, don't do this or you have to become us.

And then you come and talk to a class. Like, they were basically parading them around. And I guess it was like a walk of shame. And I remember sitting there being like, this isn't good. Like, this isn't nice. This isn't kind. And at the same time, I'm having sex with my girlfriend. You know, so it's a strange feeling because if you're taught that arousals,

bad, but innately humans experience arousal, then you either have to believe you're bad or deny arousal, which you can't. Like, that's not actually real. So you end up with all these people who are walking around with shame and guilt who need alcohol to actually be in these important, sacred, intimate moments. Because it's, you know, we know it numbs us, so we can't have the thoughts about being bad. Right. Right. Like, I'm going to be go blind for masturbating and be struck down. Right. Go blind. Like, it's, I remember going to the sex museum where they had like, medieval tools. And one of them was like a,

it looked like a ring that went around like the teenagers' penis. And if they got an erection, it would set off a bell. And I'm like, that would say, because you're not, it's not your choice in your, you know,

and you're sleeping. It's actually healthy. All of a sudden, bells are going off. Exactly. But the funny thing is, instead of that now, they just have your bell going off as your brain saying,

this is wrong, this is wrong. Even if you're, this is why people, they could be in their 40s. They haven't been in church in 20 years. but they still have that you can't like it's like you're indoctrated into this like you know belief such a young age I wasn't raised that way but like it's so hard to shake that completely

and then yeah and then we're just kind of screwed unless we do this inner work and heal it because all the work that you talk about and I talk about is really just healing these messages that are leading us through a life of really having way less pleasure and connection and fun enemies but the intimacy and the love comes and the depth and pleasure comes when you actually can be vulnerable and real which is how we all started this, which is such a... So, like, imagine if the relationship is... The relationship is bringing up something

that needs to be worked through so that you can get more intimacy, more connection, more access to your voice, more access to sex, to arousal, but, like, authentic, like, witnessed arousal, like, authentic, vulnerable connection. That, to me, is why romantic relationships are such a powerful space.

And I totally agree with you. It's like, it doesn't matter what brings you to the why do I do what I do. But that is the should I stay or go? That point of inquiry is, okay, why do I do I do what I do? What do I truly want to do an experience in my life? Have I ever asked myself that question? What do I actually need?

What do I actually want? Can the relationship be part of what brings that to surface? Because as I said before, it's so crazy that people leave relationships and become everything. It's like, use your relationship as a place to become everything. Like my wife can reflect to me things that I don't see. About herself? About you? Right.

Because you have that. She can see it. Yeah. She'll say to me like, hey, I notice you're playing small in this. Like, I love you. And that's, you can't do that. And I'm like, oh, God. Like, you see me.

And you still, and it's still hot, right? Because I think some people think, well, going back with how we started this was that, like, men, it's such confusing messages right now that men are totally wanting to be emotional. But like, don't cry here. Don't cry here. Like a lot of men hear that. They go, oh, my God, if my partner told me I was playing smart or said anything was small, I would be very, like feel awful and feel like so much shame.

But you actually are able to do, have done the work when we say the work to feel like, oh, it's actually love. It's not judgment criticism. It's helped you be bigger. Yeah. And that she, we have the access to the language that at least minimizes the amount of triggers. Because, you know, language is important, but also the fact that, you know, you know, I have had to sit with my shame, my unworthiness, my defensiveness.

You know, my mastery was being defensive. Yeah. Yeah. Done so much. Okay. So I have a final question of you before we get into a question from a listener, I'd love you to help me answer. But if we had to like just, if you had to say like there are three things that someone

could do now that would help them know if they're on the path and get on the path towards the love they want. Well, I'd say the first one is getting real with your reality. You know, like there's no change. that doesn't come with actually telling the truth. You know, are you happy? Does your relationship bring you alive? If you're single, is it like, are my standards actually walls?

Like, am I afraid of connection? Like, what do I do to avoid connection? What are the strategies I have in conflict? What's my side of the street? And the second side of that, I think, would be, okay, now that I know those things, what are some things that I could do to learn about that? Can I bring it if I'm in a relationship?

Bring them forward to the relationship. You know, what I said about my wife and I that was a radical transformation is that we saw that if something's coming up for one person, it's coming up for the other. It's like playing leapfrog. You know, one person's awareness, or let's see, if you believe in God, the universe, whatever you call it, there's a ping coming to one person. And although the other person might not understand it yet, it is treating the other person with reverence when you say there's wisdom in what's coming up for you. If we could walk

shoulder to shoulder looking at that thing, you have two people who can actually problem solve and actually say, like, you trusted me with this. I think the third part is like actually get clear on what you're committed to. Some of us are in relationships that we actually have no interest in being in, you know, but that doesn't serve anybody, you know. It doesn't. It's good for all relationships. Like if you don't like love your job or your problem with your friendships, it's just like really goes back to ourselves what's going on here. Right. And that's also like you could see your part.

We all have a part in everything. It takes to a tango. It does. And that level of ownership, that self-ownership of like, I will no longer tolerate mediocrity from myself. It doesn't even have to start with other people, but that could be where it begins because you, you know,

you had a crappy person you were dating or the partner you're in relationship with isn't interested in growth and actually doesn't listen to any feedback you have. It could start there. But any of that is really just evidence of your own. tolerance for ambivalence, tolerance for mediocrity. Like anyone who really steps into like full responsibility for their life will no longer want to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't take responsibility for their life. You can't be a victim and also take responsibility for your life.

And that's not negating true experience of victimization. But it's saying like you can't change what's happened in your life, but you can change what you do with what's happened. Let's answer this question from Sergio. He's 32 in Thailand. Hi, Sergio in Thailand. What's up, Sergio? Dear Dr. Emily, I've been in a relationship for nearly two years now with the woman of my dreams.

She's everything I ever wanted a partner. She's beautiful, talented, ambitious, and caring. She'll do anything for me. There's always this part. But, but I've been struggling to emotionally disconnect from a couple of women I had flings with prior to meeting my current girlfriend. I haven't had any physical contact with them in two years. And I don't believe they were that into me back then, let it know now. And certainly not like my current girlfriend is.

Yet, I still think, what if? And even fantasize about them. lot. My girlfriend doesn't suspect any of this, but it's having a detrimental effect on my mental health and in my ability to be 100% present with her. I feel delusional. I want to leave the past in the past, but I can't find myself separating from it. Any advice and insight would be much appreciated. I mean, what I hear real quickly here is it's just that, again, after our conversation, it's like this is some kind of distraction from him. Going deeper. Going deeper, right? Yeah. There's a line that he used in that that I think is an interesting, like,

caveat he put in there, which is, I've had no physical contact, which that immediately tells to me that he probably has digital contact in some way. And what you said, there's a fear of going deeper here. These are sabotages, right, from intimacy by having this diffuse attention, which has arousal associated with it, which probably, there's probably something about depth with his current girlfriend that he's afraid of, that he then sabotages by, and the feeling, the feeling the fear gets resolved through arousal and fantasizing instead of actually bringing his fear to his partner to go deeper. And the other side of it is, and this is, I think, the really important part to at least move

further in it is you have to go complete 100% no contact. Because if your partner says that she loves you on the deepest level and she chooses you fully and you're out of integrity and you're communicating with other people, And you know on a deep level, like there is connection there, they might desire more. You're out of int—like, you know, you could tell in your body that you're not operating in your value system. You won't believe her because you know that on a deeper level, you're actually not a man of honor. And that type of truth can sting. But I think we all know when we're out of alignment with our own values.

And when we do that, it stings, man. It gets in the way and blocks intimacy. First off, if she found out, she'd be upset. So there could be something about the mystery that also creates excitement. Because like, hey, when someone tells you, I'm not going anywhere. I love you. I choose you fully. When we don't trust someone's choice, maybe because of our childhood, we're like,

eh, that's kind of boring. Like, I kind of like the chaos of uncertainty and mystery. So I'm just going to shake some shit up. But meanwhile, you know when you look at your partner, you're not in alignment. Yeah. I'm with you. And it's so seeing everything through your lens and my lens and just even after our conversation here. It's just so funny. It's like, I almost think like, we've kind of been a buzzkill

here today for people because it's like toxic relationships, affairs, just having sex, all the things that are like people like, I'm having a great life. It's so fun. I'm dating the married person and I'm this. We won't let people get away with any of the bullshit or that's not serving them. Like, sorry, like all your things. I recognize myself in this. And it's like because we get our body, we get a physiological response. He's probably like, you know, texting them and he gets a little high. He gets a buzz. It's like his alcohol. Sure. He even said he fantasized. He fantasizes.

He's getting, it is serving him right now. And I feel like almost all of these things, the toxic relationships, the situationships, the flirting, the whatever is all truly just ways that we're numbing ourselves. And it's almost like, I don't know how, like, if I got some work to do. But I also like, how do we make this fun? Like talking about your relationship, it's like, there is some like beautiful depth and love that can happen by really being vulnerable.

Yeah. I mean, I think that the idea, one, if I orient to that I have work to do from a place that means it's evidence that I'm broken, then I'm not going to orient to growth from a positive way. If it feeds self-worth issues, then I'm going to resent work. I'm going to resent the mirrors I get from my relationships. Look, I spent some of my 27 great sex, random sex. I'm not shaming anyone for their choices.

I'm just saying that, hey, maybe some of the things I learned through some high-risk behavior, which I just happen to get away with it. A lot of people don't. A lot of people have massive consequences to choices like that. So my only hope for people is never to elicit shame, but to actually say like if you have a deep knowing that you're actually in violation of your own values and your own boundaries and your own morals,

which is not a religious construct, but your own personal construct. You're avoiding grief. You're avoiding yourself. I just want you to be free. I want your choices to be the intention behind them, not to be to avoid suffering or to avoid intimacy, but to actually be in an adventure, to be curious.

And that's so possible. You can have conscious, connected, loving, open, beautiful sex with someone that you're not in a deep monogamous relationship with. I personally think that the deeper the commitment, the more the growth. You know, and there's a saying that commitment only works if you do it. And I think so many of us have caveats to the things we just. choose in our life to our own disciplines. We don't double down and go all in on the things you want to be what because you look at the most successful people in the world and I don't mean that as a metric

of like money but like the people we admire the most who seem to have the richest lives not wealth but life. They care about their relationships. You look at the five regrets of the dying from brawny where she's a palliative care nurse. Four of them are relational and emotional. They're like I wish I wouldn't work so hard as the one, but I wish I had let myself be happier. I wish I had told people how I truly felt. They're like all the line with something like that. Why I bring that up is because when you get to the end of your life, which could be tomorrow, like Buzzkill, it's like when you get there, will you be proud of how you showed up? Will you have loved all out? You know, and to me, that's, you look at the research from like Harvard on the longest running study on well-being,

the greatest predictor of your health at 80 is the quality of your relationships at age 50 and not just romantic, just all your relationships. So like your body, inflammation, physiology, all these are correlated to your capacity to love and be loved and create trusting, safe relationships. I love it. So wise. We've got to do the work. This is it.

I think this is a great step for people after this conversation. How could they not take a little bit look inward, right? It just means better sex. Like at the end of the day, it's better sex. that it truly does because so much of sex is about, like the best sex we have is when we are in it, when we trust. Right.

And when we feel unsafe, it's really hard to have great sex. Truly, the sex that's a fulfilling sex that we're going to remember. But then I'm also thinking about whenever I ask people the most memorable sex they had, this might be another buzzkill. They often say,

oh, that time where I didn't think was going to happen or I met the stranger on the beach or I was on vacation. But then I always think like that probably was the most memorable, but was it really like the most pleasurable for both of you? Like I think most people, probably wasn't the most pleasure, but it was just memorable because it was like had the thrill to it or it had the unknown. But truly, like the depth of connection and this kind of sex you could have in a safe container and a safe relationship is really, I think, what we all want.

Okay. I've to ask you the quickie questions we ask all of our guests. Oh, quickie. Real quickie, ready? Okay, quickie. Biggest turn on. Like deep connective intimacy. Biggest turn off. Cigarettes. I don't like the smell of cigarettes. Is that? Yeah. Like during sex? Oh, God. It's the worst. What makes good sex? Safety, like trust. Something you would tell your younger self about sex and relationships. Oh, and mystery.

I think sex is important to have mystery. Younger self to pay attention to the physiological, like, that my penis didn't want me to put myself where my heart couldn't be. What's the number one thing you wish everyone knew about sex? I mean, how powerful it is when the conversations can openly happen about it. Like what you facilitate, I think, is probably the most important part of it. That's it for today's episode. Thank you so much for listening to Sex with Emily. And if you love the show, please like, subscribe, and leave a review wherever you get your podcast.

And hey, share this with a friend or a partner. It might just spark something. It usually does. You can find me on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Facebook, and X. It's all at Sex With Emily. Oh, and I've been told I give really good email. So sign up at Sex with Emily.com for free guides. articles and more ways to prioritize your pleasure.