Sex With Emily - Love Rules with Joanna Coles

Episode Date: April 28, 2018

On today’s show, Emily is joined by chief content officer of Hearst Magazines Joanna Coles to talk about her new book, Love Rules: How To Find A Real Relationship In A Digital World – basically a diet book for love. The two talk about how to have more fun while dating rather than just looking for “the one,” why we can’t seem to admit to ourselves that we want love, or what we need during sex, and how to use dating apps as a way to actually find love and not just another date. Thank you for supporting our sponsors who help keep the show FREE: JO Stimulants, Adam & Eve, Womanizer, Sportsheets Follow Emily on social: @sexwithemily Follow Joanna on social: @joannacoles Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. On today's show, I'm hosting Chief Content Officer of Hearst Magazine's Joanna Coles to talk about her new book Love Rules, how to find a real relationship in a digital world. Basically, a diet book for love. Topics include how to have more fun while dating rather than looking for the one. Why we can't seem to admit to ourselves that we want love or what we need during sex. When it comes to dating, it's more about the stage than the age, and how to use dating apps as a way to actually find love and not just another date. All this and more, thanks for listening. They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex Eyes that mock our secret institutions

Betrubized they call them a lie-gone-day. Hey, Evelyn You got a boyfriend because my man E here. He just got his heart broken. He thinks you're kind of cute The girls got a hair stand. Oh my the women know about shrinkage isn't it common? No, what do you mean like laundry? It's drinks and we not talk about sex so much. Are you kidding me? Oh Being bad feels pretty good It's your laundry, it's your drink. Can we not talk about sex so much? Are you kidding me? Oh my God, I'm so proud. Being bad feels pretty good. But you know Emily's not the kind of girl you just play with. You're listening to Sex with Emily.

We're talking about sex, relationships, and everything you between for more information go to sexwithendly.com because it's a party there. You guys, we upload every day with new podcasts, news stories, blog posts, everything's going to help you have better sex and relationships. I love when you subscribe and comments and iTunes that really helps us with the show. And I read all of your comments. I really do.

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I have Joanna Coles and she's the Chief Content Officer of Herst Magazine, which basically means that she controls the content for all the magazines that you basically know love and read. So Cosmo Marie, which used to run Cosmo magazine, Amory Claire, and now men's health women's health, right? You owners of that. Yep, Alice Bazaar, L, Oprah Magazine, Good Housekeeping, Women's Day, The List is Endless and Glorious. But it is endless and glorious and you're in charge of all that content. Well, the editors are technically themselves in charge.

I'm there to help them succeed. It's a fun job. It's a really fun job. It sounds like a really fun job and I'm so honored you're here and she also wrote the most perfect book for my audience. Love rules, how to find a relationship in the digital world. I also want to mention that your executive producer of the Bull Type on ABC's Freeform

a show that's inspired by your life as a magazine editor. It is, and it's a really fun show. It starts again on June 12th. Congratulations on that. What was really exciting was the social media coverage of it. People just really got into the show and then just started a drum beat. When is season two?

When is it happening? So free form, I like, we're doing season two, we're doing season three. So we're very excited and they're shooting, as I speak, in Montreal. In fact, I was just talking to Melora Hardin who plays Jacqueline Carlisle on the way here. So it's kind of based on your life, Ezra.

It's loosely based on my life. What I wanted it to be was an enthusiastic show about women in the workplace. So there's a great female boss, or a three female friends who support each other, and they're not all tearing each other down. And my experience of women in the workplace has been largely incredibly positive.

I've only had good female bosses. And I hated the idea that women in popular culture were always presented as beasts in, or, you know, always presented as monsters in the office instead of actually helping each other. You know, it's so true. We talk about that a lot around here too. You can see that I have a lot of women in the office. And I know that that's a thing, but I just, I can't, the toxic energy of women being like that is just something that we don't, I would never accept her on your side. Well, I appreciate.

I think a lot of the male executives like the idea of women being at each other's threats and love the idea of toxic energy around women's friendships, but as women know, actually it's those friendships that keep them going. But in my business, magazines and fashion, the trope has always been the Devil Wears Prada trope that you have this monster's boss

and everybody else is sort of bullied and it just wasn't my experience. The fashion world is actually not like that. And certainly my experience has hurt that the magazines there has not been like that. I love that. You are setting the record straight because I think there's a lot of women who believe that.

Well, at least I'm trying to balance the record. Exactly. Let's be honest. I mean, there's different, at least I'm trying to balance the records. Exactly. Let's be honest. I mean, there's different, lots of different offices. There are lots of different scenarios. OK, let's talk about your book because I love this book. How to find a relationship in a digital world, love rules. And the reason is, there's a lot of dating books out there,

instructional books over the years, the rules, just telling them what they should do, what they shouldn't do, and what I love about your book is it really asks women to go inside and kind of do some introspective work about who they are, what they want, their patterns in life, so they can take inventory to kind of figure out before you go out there and start dating, which you still might go out there and date kind of randomly that's part of the process, but also just to kind of take a look. Well, I think one of the things that's happened is that we no longer feel okay with solitude,

and in solitude, that's the time you do the work thinking about yourself, right? And now we tend to fill every moment that we can, every gap, we immediately reach for our devices and start communicating with friends. And I think that if one took a lot of that energy, or even half that energy and spent it thinking about, where are you in your life? Is this where you want to be? What about writing it down and then tracking your patterns

over the course of three months, six months a year? You would actually end up in a place where you could nudge your life in the direction you wanted to go in. And so many people sit around and discuss their lives with their friends repeatedly and relentlessly and we all have friends who seem stuck and who want to replay the record every time you're talking to them. And I think this is a way of getting unstuck and finding new pathways to meet people. And I did it as a diet book for love because I thought that food and love have a lot in common. We have huge appetites for both. When you have a delicious meal,

there is nothing better. And when you have a bad meal, it sucks. And we're all tempted by junk food, but you don't want a full diet of junk food. And similarly, with love, you want a nutritious mixed diet over the long haul. You don't want to just have junk relationships and toxic relationships and hookups, which are absolutely fine. It's an incredibly non-judgmental book. Because I love that. It is very non-judgmental. Yeah, I don't mind. I do your work. You do what you want to do as long as that is what you want to do. Your nightmare is doing

something that you're pretending you want to do when actually it's not making you happy and then you keep on doing it. And I see that happening with people and I talk to hundreds of people for this, but hundreds of men went. So Tommy, at 20, what you found, so I know a lot of that is in here, but was there anything that was, because after working 20 years in this, in this, in this, in just 20 years as a journalist, right? There are 20 years in the, more than that. 20 years with, you were at Cos are 20 years in the... More than that. 20 years with... You were at Cosmo and Reclare Women's Magazine. Yeah, I was at Cosmo for four years,

Marie Klaif was six years. So 10 years in Women's Magazine. Oh, okay. Yeah, and... 10 years in Women's Magazine. Yeah, which is a long time. Yeah, that is a long time. They're like, oh, yes.

Literally, like, really, I mean, it's all sex, relationship, dating. So after all of that, where you really are immersed in women and dating and sex, was there anything you found that of that, where you really are immersed in women and dating and sex, was there anything you found that was surprising right now? There were a lot of great questions and there were a lot of things I found surprising, not least that one in five are on antidepressants, one in five said they've been sexually assaulted, a lot of people felt they were drinking too much and didn't know how to stop. And the thing

that most alarmed me was that people weren't having fun dating in the way that I would have expected and nobody, nobody. And I talked to hundreds of women and some men over the years, nobody talks about falling in love anymore. They all talked about dating. Many of them were on dating apps. And many of them were finding success on dating apps in terms of meeting people, but it felt so much more transactional and dating apps, and I'm a huge dating app fan. This is not an anti-digital book at all, but dating apps can't be the only solution, it can't be the only tool in your box, the only arrow in your quiver, you've still got to get from the digital bit to offline to have a relationship. It felt interchangeable, people felt that they were

interchangeable, and a little bit like you would often match on someone, and I likened it also to virtual shopping, that you put it in your virtual basket, and then you decide not to confirm purchase just yet. Right. It just feels good to shop. Yeah, and that almost takes care of the earth. Right. Exactly. I'm not expecting this all the time. Exactly. Right. Now, like, oh, I like that good jacket. Oh, it's $6,000. Can't really afford it. Putting it in the basket. Right. Right. And then the next day, I'm like, remove item. What was I thinking? And then an element of that would take us. Absolutely. You're just swiping

your seeing who you match with, what feels good. I don't really want to date, but I want another's options. And you can't really, a you can't tell from a profile, under photograph, until you've at least talked to someone on the phone, whether or not they're worth your time. And one of the other things that I noticed happening, and this is definitely, you know,

something that's happened over the last five years to people, is that people spend an inordinate amount of time texting, flirty texts back and forth with people they do not know. And it is not a way of getting to know people. You think it is, but actually what happens in a computer mediated environment is that you end up filling in the gaps with positive attributes and they may be wrong. So often if you actually get to a situation where you've had,

I don't know, 205,000, 7,000 texts, and you meet the person in real life, you think you've fast-forwarded the awkward bits of getting to know someone, but you really haven't. You have to start at zero. You have to see them too, the chemistry. Do you feel how do you feel when you're actually

in their presence? Of course. I totally agree with you. There's two things here that I want to go back to, because first of all, I agree. Like the second you meet someone and you match, stop the texting and let them know that you want to pick up the phone.

Like make a phone call even FaceTime. Save yourself so much time. Well FaceTime is a brilliant idea because that tells you so much more. So much more, but you're all about the phone call too though. You're like, let's just nip it in the butt. Don't spend more than a day or two texting with someone or even a few lines. I'm like, if you're interested, let's talk. Let's figure out because then you can tell by listening to someone's

voice or even FaceTime, if you're seeing them and be like, okay, is this a connection? No, I mean, you don't have to get ready. You don't drive across town. It'll save you a lot of time. So I love that idea. Well, and also in the book, I talk about emotional calories. Where do you want to spend your emotional calories? A calorie is a unit of energy. Where is your emotional energy going? Why do you want to spend it texting with someone and getting your hopes up that this is a really good connection

without making the effort of the phone call? I know that most people would rather at this point shoot themselves in the face than have to pick up the phone. But it's a surefire way of figuring out is this person worth your, with your calories. Exactly. I love it. You say you need to take an emotional calorie account. So we could also talk about that in a minute.

But the thing I want to go back to is why do you think what's your reasoning by women are not talking about falling in love? I said that was. I think that what's happening now is that people have sex with people often on the first date to figure out whether or not they like them. Instead of getting to know them and then having sex be part of the girl.

Now again, no judgements, but it's exhausting and it's hard to have good sex with people you don't know. And a lot of the time I talk to people who said, listen, we're drinking too much, we know we're drinking too much. But it's really hard to get naked with a stranger when you've just met them, of course, we're drinking too much. And then the next morning, they would often wake up with remorse and feel bad about themselves and have what I call an emotional hangover, as well as a physical hangover. And so I wanted to sort of cool BS on that

and say, this is not sustainable in the long haul. And it is really like going out with a big appetite on Friday night and eating three big Macs in a row. And you just think, why did I do that? I feel like crap. It's true, you wake up with like a shame over. That's what I call it. A shame over.

Really, you're afraid. I think it is, really. A shame over. A shame over. If you were have to numb yourself to actually have sex and go out with alcohol. And then you're really bad about it the next day or the next few times it happens and you kind of know something about yourself. And I love that your book Gently Guides People and it's not like you have to be journal,

you know, you can do it on your computer or I like writing things down with these questions or so. It just gets you to think like, hmm, did I have pleasurable sex last time? Did I have an orgasm? Was it satisfying for me? How did I feel in the morning? And then you could really stop and go, is there a pattern here? Well, only 11% of women say they have an orgasm on a hookup.

So then why are you having the hookup? And are you probably having the hookup because you want some intimacy, you want to be cuddled, you want some action? Again, absolutely zero judgment. As long as you're getting what you want and knowing that you're going into a situation where it's hard to do that. It's hard to have good sex with a stranger. Really hard, yeah. And it's hard to have good drunk sex. So one of my questions to people is, have you ever had sex sober? Is this someone that can pass the sober sex test?

And I spoke to a lot of people who hadn't. They never had, yeah, I've heard that too. A lot of friends, especially friends who've gotten sober, they're like, oh yeah, no, it's so hard for them to start having sex again because they literally have never had sober sex because we feel like the social lubricant even kissed someone.

And now I just think it's gotten out of control on college campuses and everywhere. So much binge drinking. And I talked to a lot of academics and college presidents and they're all really alarmed about it. And it is true that it's on the rise. I know that, you know, it's easy for journalists to be alarmist, but this really is a frightening pattern. And actually, it used to be that beer was the top five drinks in America. It would be different brands of beer. And now beer is still the number one drink in America, but numbers two, three, four, and five are all hard liquor.

And it's hard liquor hidden in soft fruit drinks. So it's hard lemonade, it's popsicles. And so it's very easy to get drunker than you expect. And in the book, of course I don't say give up drinking. I love champagne, I love wine. I get that it's confidence in a glass, but I say respect your limits. Don't go out of your range.

And also the minute you do, when you're drinking with someone you don't know, you're red flags, you're red flags that would normally be waving, stop waving, and they get blunted, the sort of draft on them. It's true your inhibitions exactly. The draft on them dies, and they're not waving when they get blunted. The sort of drafts on them. It's true your inhibitions exactly. The draft on them dies and they're not waving

when they should be. Right, exactly. And it's funny because it's alcohol does that. You lower your inhibitions, you make choices, you wouldn't really make. And then also when you have sex too soon, a lot of times for women, we get attached to the love hormones.

And then we can't see the red flags waving in the distance because we're so attached. Just sex with this person. And so I think it's just best to slow things down. Meet for lunch. If you're like, no, I have to drink on a date. I say, I have a lunch date then, if you need to, if you can't get drunk or just wait.

Or go for a walk in the park or do something. Go to the emergency room. Or go to a wine, or maybe not a wine tasting course, but do a cookery class. Do something together that you have something to talk about. So the stress and the pressure is off the day. You're not staring at each other frantically thinking, God, do I find this person attractive? You're actually doing something.

So even if you don't like them at the end of the evening, it hasn't been an entire waste of time. Exactly. You've learned how to cook a lasagna. Exactly, right. Right. Which, actually, that's not, I've not yet learned how to cook. Maybe I should do that.

It's not a bad idea. How? Exactly. And I love how you. It's not a bad idea. That's how it should work. Exactly. And I love how you use food as the analogy throughout the book. And so also, one of your quotes here, is pleasure is the fundamental calorie you want to be consuming. And I just agree with you. I'm like reading your book,

and yes, yes, I totally agree with you, that women do not, or not, talk about pleasure. We know that sex education is abysmal, and that to even get women, and I love the provociveness of how provocative some of your questions are around that, like, think about it. Did you have pleasure? How did it make you feel just having women look at themselves?

So why do you think that it is that women don't even know how to prioritize their pleasure, and I don't know how can we get them to do that? Well, one of the things that I heard repeatedly from women was that they felt they were competing with porn, and that men expected them to behave like porn stars, a'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r pwyd yn fwy'r p education and of course porn is shot from the point of view of the camera man. So there are all sorts of camera angles that work in porn that don't work in real life. And what I heard repeatedly from women was men would start for play with sort of cliched lines

from porn and expect them to give the cliched lines back. And then wanted them to behave like porn stars and look like porn stars and they're, you know, they don't want to do that. They want to have sex that feels more original and fresh and if you're trying to perform like you think sex is supposed to be done, it makes it much harder in the moment. And I think women are used to servicing men and sex have always revolved around the male orgasm. But that's what exactly. So I mean, I think you're totally right. And I hear from men to who are like well I was with her and she

was acting like a porn star and it didn't really seem like it was real and it was a real reaction so I kind of hear it both ways and I agree that there's nothing not bashing porn but not a great place to to be learning specifically how to have sex it's not going to be a tutorial on how sex should happen it's true we prioritize men's pleasure we think that that's we say yes to things that don't really feel good. We're not really in touch with our bodies. We don't even know what we want.

So going back to the first thing that women won't really admit they want love if they do, they won't really admit what they want in bed if they know. So they're just putting on these acts. And I feel like I was gonna ask if you feel like that it's gotten more severe over the years, like over the last 10 years say say that you've worked in it. I've been doing this for like, I don't know how long we did this, 13 years.

I do think that porn has been a huge factor in all of this, but I also think that since I can remember women, just again, it's all set up for men and I just want women to like masturbate, take time for themselves, figure out your body and just feel comfortable. We've had success in so many other places, like in the workplace and everywhere else we have these freedoms, but with sex, we still have this, like, it's not okay to ask for what we want. It's not okay to have pleasure.

It's very interesting, because in the culture, we're still very uncomfortable with the idea of ambitious women, right? And I think we're still really uncomfortable with the idea of women who have sex drives. And so it's all sort of hidden and it's sublimated. And in fact, the culture we live in doesn't really like women having desire for anything.

They want us to be consumers, which we are, frantically. But it's hard for our culture to admit that women have needs and wants other than for children. And weirdly in the book, I address, or perhaps not weirdly in the book, but weirdly one of the things that I heard when I was talking to a lot of young women was there ambivalence around having children. They didn't dare say it out loud because they felt it sounded retro. And one of the other- They felt it sounded retro? Yeah, to want children or to want to have

a party and have kids. Well, that's what I was trying to get at. So, okay, yeah, keep going with this, because you were saying that they didn't want them if they wanted love and you're saying they don't even want to admit they want children and families because it's... Because it makes them sad. Well, I think it makes them feel like they're trying to hack after some 1950s archetype, which they're not. And we know that fewer women are having children now than they were. And that's partly because contraception is so good

and it's widely available, and although not always. But I think that women are concerned, and again, we have another dialogue around women's careers and we do with men's careers that you can't have a job and have kids and do both well. And so as a result, a lot of women say, well, you know, I'm just going to focus my efforts around work. And I have a whole chapter about you

need to choose your own best before date, again, playing off the food. Yeah, let's just talk about that. Analogy, but this is something you really need to think about because you do not want to wake up at 45, having decided that you've been in denial about wanting children. And now you do because the odds are stacked against you being able to have them. a'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd The fertility industries have told us that it's all possible, but again, the odds are against you. It's expensive and it's not great for your health. And again, if you're in a relationship and you don't feel you can raise the fact you

want kids, you're probably in the wrong relationship. And this is a really, really important thing in women's lives. And I feel like we've made it sound like, oh, it's impossible to have a job. It's impossible to have a child at the same time. I'm not saying it's easy. It's absolutely not easy. But if you want to have a child, don't not have a child because of a job.

Exactly. No, I absolutely agree with you. And like, you could freeze your eggs now, which a lot of people would do. You could do eggs. And you should freeze your eggs when you're younger because freezing your eggs at 38, again, the odds are against it.

Right, right. You could freeze your eggs. So it's really just, and I feel like the thing, the concerns that a lot of women have, I could never say that, I could never let my partner know that I want kids, or that I want to continue to work and have kids, or that I want you to touch me this way to have an orgasm.

Whatever it is, we don't feel that it's okay to ask for it. And I just want to say, if this is striking a chord with any woman here that, or a man, there's no time like the present, and I would say that tonight, go home and ask for that thing because what, don't waste your time another minute in a relationship where you don't feel like you're saying something that you're holding back from having life that you want. And if you can't say it and you can't, and you can't ask for it, then there's, A, you've

got problems with communication. And listen, communication and relationships goes up and down, right? There are times when you want to hear someone, there are times when you don't want to listen and vice versa with your partner. But you may be in the wrong relationship if you can't at least voice what you want. Now, you don't always want what each other wants at the same time. I, the relationships have ebbs and flows, one person wants one, one person wants one something. But something like kids is fundamental.

I'm not suggesting you raise it on the first date, but if you know you want them at a certain point you do want to, because your nightmare is that the person turns around and says, I don't want, I don't want kids with you, and then it turns out that they go on to have kids with someone else. You need to get out of that relationship and find someone who needs kids to. Exactly. And I mean that, of course, now that you just had this thought, but there's something that you've been sitting on for a while, and your friends are urging you, like, I'm just saying it's a time to do it. Like there's no people sit on so many things and relationships, they don't communicate clearly, and then they don't get what they want, and when we wake up in

there, 45, and they don't have kids. Now, I don't want to say that you have to have kids, but I just want you to be able to ask yourself. And I'm glad that you think the questions are provocative, because I thought really hard and long about is this gonna piss people off? But I want people to engage in the really important things in their lives. Right. No, I love these questions.

I was actually gonna get into it. We will get into some of them, but we're gonna do an Instagram live. Hi, I'm here with Joanna Coles and her book, we're talking about her book, Love Rules, How to Find a Real Relationship in the Digital World. And I'd love talking to you about your book because really, guys, how to find a real relationship in the digital world. And I'd love talking to you about your book, because really, guys, how do you find a relationship

in the digital world? We've got some good tips for you here. This book asks you really important questions as a woman like, what do you really want? Why are you sleeping with that person over and over again if it doesn't make you feel good? And what kind of person are you really looking for? So if you guys have any questions, ask us.

Do ask us. Do ask us. Do ask us. Yes. Well, ask it. We'll answer questions about anything. Okay. So some of these questions do have women think about it. I mean, I started thinking about it. So do you always fall for the guy who ignores you? So many people do that.

Right. They're like, it makes me feel, oh, and I think we're going to be answering some emails from listeners in a bit. And this comes up a lot. There's one that says, I only like the guys who don't like me or why is it the guys I like don't like me? And it's like this thing. Well, then you have to go into an elaborate tap dance to get their attention. I mean, sometimes it's opposed and they do like you and they're doing it because they

are shy to put themselves out there. But so often, I think that it's part of the Cinderella complex that we've grown up with these princes and you know the sort of sense that these ridiculous things that women are supposed to do to find the love of their life. The idea that you have to kiss all these frogs is such a ridiculous trick. Why should you have to kiss 30 frogs? You don't have to kiss 30, but this is what I love about your book because, part of the chase, like maybe kiss 10 frogs and then you're not, then this is what I love about your book because, cut to the chase, like maybe kids 10 frogs, and then you're not, then you know what character says.

Well, hopefully you don't kiss any frogs. Hopefully you kiss some other princes. Right, cut right to the princess too. Did you have to kind of kiss a few frogs so that you appreciate the princess? Well, a few frogs. Well, maybe, but I don't think they all have to be frogs. That's in the middle of the air, right?

They're just, I don't know, they're the, Lizard. Can we have a couple of cool-alibats in there? Yes, I don't know. They're the, um, Lizard. Can we have a couple of people in the wall of that? Is that time spent in that? Yes, I wouldn't have qualified. And then what are the characteristics you feel you need in a partner? I love the idea of writing down

what your non-negotiables are. Like I want someone who's enthusiastic about their job, loves their mother, likes the outdoors. And then you know if you're dating someone who just hits home plays video games all day, hates their family, hates life is negative, you can go back to this checklist. I mean, there's so much more than a list in here, but there's just...

Well, I don't really understand. And so, that sort of values, like, you know, what are their sexual values? Do you want honesty? Do you want reliability? Do you want someone who's responsible? Do you want someone who's kind? Do you want a grown-up? Do you want a child?

I mean, I mean, not literally a child, but do you want... Do you want Peter Pan or do you want actually a sort of grown up? Right. And if you keep dating the Peter Pan types, you might notice in here it asks you that that kind of leads you to your own conclusions that, oh, I have been dating a lot of guys who haven't been available lately. It's not me because I think we're talking a lot about how women, I think, we blame ourselves

for a lot of things. We think that we sort of have to please our partners. We kind of put other people's needs before our own. And I love that your book Love Rules has women really look at what they want. And like that's okay. And giving women permission to ask for what they want to live a life and to kind of shape their life around,

like going after what they want and not wasting time with a lot of the frauds. And I think you have a much more interesting, much more nuanced relationship if you can be honest about what they want and not wasting time with a lot of the frarts. Well, and I think it's, you have a much more interesting, much more nuanced relationship if you can be honest about what you want. Best ways to meet people offline. Love that question. I think that's about being really present in the moment,

not always having your phone with you and it's everything from when you're in a coffee shop asking someone, you know, putting, when you look at a line in a coffee shop, now everybody's on their phone. If you turn to the person next to you and say, oh, which do you think is better, the blueberry scone or the maple scone,

you can start a conversation. Even if they don't look promising, they may have a brother who's promising, they may have a best friend who's promising, you just don't know. And if you don't have those serendipity little moments in the day, you know, A, you're much less rich for it, but there's so much potential hiding in plain sight if you can put your phone down. I'm a huge believer in joining things, a church choir, a theatre

group, a sports team, because it's fun doing things with other people, not just sitting around and talking with your friends. And if you think about how life was at college, usually people are members of clubs, you have teams, you know, you have groups of people. Community. You have community. And what happens when you go into the workplaces,

you start a job, and then in the evening, you see your friends, you go out for drinks or whatever, but you don't have that same sense of community. And I think it's super helpful to join one or two things. You don't have to become a lifelong member, but think of it in terms of, I might do this for three months or six months, and see if I like these people. And don't be looking for the one because that's too much pressure. I was going to tell me, you say that in your book, and I totally agree with you that whole like we have to find the one. It's not of pressure. I don't even believe that that exists.

I mean, you might find one person you want to be with for a long time and you might say it's forever, but just to think that they have to have everything and check all the boxes. I just don't think that that's real stick. Yeah, I agree. And that's also the sort of, again, goes back to the Cinderella complex that we've all grown up with, that somehow you'll find one person that to your point can solve all the problems. There are many the ones. But what you're looking for is people, you can add to your social network, your

real life social network to give you a bigger life. They bring friends with them, you extend your network of people. And the goal here is to have a big life, you will meet more people and then if you want to find someone settle down with you will. And it will be a much more natural process than frantically swiping right left to... I totally agree with you. You know, to see if you can find them. I love what you're saying. I'll put the phone down.

And because I notice that wherever I go now, it's like, it used to be that you would meet people online walking to a store, you could walk into a parking lot, but literally everyone's on their phones all the time. There was none of that eye contact, even checking people out. There's nothing like that, because we are completely cut off.

And I think the thing is, it's not zero sum. We're not saying you have to put your device down. Don't let it home. I'm quite forced not. You need ways. Of course not, and I love being on my phone, but I don't want to be on my phone 24-7 and miss what's actually happening out there.

Right, because the person's probably walking right past you. And I think there is a sense of panic. I know I feel it when I disconnect from my phone. If I switch the phone off or I put it down or I leave it in a bag, I have this kind of, you know, 60 seconds of full body roll. Oh my God, I'm not connected with the world. But then I get through it and then I'm talking to people and it's so much more fun. Yeah, it feels amazing. I know. I agree. Okay, another question. Okay, so how do you break through to a partner

who's always on the phone? That you're saying who feels closed off? Well, they may be closed off because they don't want to talk to you about how they're feeling, because it's not going well. And often I think when people say they don't want to talk about feelings,

they mean they don't want to talk about feelings with you. So this might be a situation where the questioner has to be really frank and just say, I would love it if you could put your phone down. I've got a couple of things I'd love to talk to you about, would you like a glass of wine? Let's have a chat. And if they can't put their phone down, then you might want to say, you know what? I think you and your phone have got a fantastic relationship.

I'm so happy you've met. I'm actually leaving now. Yeah, I mean, I think it's hard to compete with phones and I think I heard this from a lot of people and we've all got to be more disciplined around our behavior with them. I think we've to start setting some our own restrictions like at night. I'm not going to be on the phone between 7 and 10 with when I'm with my partner. But I think that it might be that they don't want to communicate with you.

It might be also that a lot of you will just don't have experience talking about feelings and emotions. So it could be the way that you're approaching it because if your partner has never talked about anything to anybody that they don't want to talk about you, they don't, it's really scary for them. So I think baby steps, I'm not sure what it is that you actually really what you're trying to get to with them

But I think getting out of the house if you guys are going on a hike I was in your on a road trip in the car If you're just driving in the car is a great time to conversations because no one's on the phone And you're not even really making eye contact But it's still intimate so you're looking ahead on the road So that could be a great time as well and not to do it in a you never talk to me to me, your phone's always in the way, but it's like, hey, babe, I'd really love to connect with you. And I think, like, let's talk about what's going on.

It's important to me. It makes me feel like we're not really connected, or you don't see me, or whatever, but not blaming. And it might take a few times. I think a lot of people think they have a conversation once with a partner, and everything should be great. Takes a few times, sometimes, to get our points across the deep end. And it may be that the person,

I know when I'm intensely on my phone, it drives my husband crazy if we're driving somewhere and I'm on my phone and he's doing the drive because he wants to talk to me. And I may be doing work things on it and I've got, there's an urgency around being on the phone that actually isn't always translatable to real life and sometimes you do genuinely need to communicate.

Another time you're like, you know what, just because someone's emailed me right now, I don't have to actually email them right back. There's also a decision right. We're so reactive. And I think the expectation that you have to be available 24, seven on your device is expensive. That'd be your next book, because really,

or someone's, there isn't, there was no rules around this. Like, emails were stressful. But now I'm like, and there's no way to mark texts. I don't get back to texts. It's a whole thing. When are you supposed to get back to someone?

When you guys all think, okay? You're allowed to get back to someone when you want to get back to them. Their urgency isn't necessarily your advantage. Exactly. The crisis isn't your crisis. I know. It's hard.

It's hard to do. I want to do it now, because I won't remember to get back and then people get annoyed. Well, hey, I love you all. I'm going to get back to you. So how do you find balance in your life being a mom and a business woman and being in a relationship? This is a very common question.

And again, I think the dialogue around this is really unhelpful. There isn't any balance. I have no balance. As a person, I don't care about having balance. I'm just trying to catch all the balls before they hit the floor. Sometimes they do hit the floor. Some of them bounce right back up and some of them stay down there.

You have to have other people, right? I have a super flexible partner. I have kids that have so far stayed out of jail. I have a lot of super supportive colleagues. And I will say this, and this is a message that doesn't get through to women. It is much easier to do this, the more senior you become, you get more money, you get more support, and you can control your own schedule, and that makes a huge amount of difference.

When you're a junior person trying to keep your whole life together, and you're at the mercy of a boss who wants everything on their schedule. It is much, much harder. That's true. You're much better off being senior and being able to call the shots. Right, and if you're not senior yet, I would say just the simple power of learning to say no.

A lot of times things feel like that everything's a crisis and you have to, well, I can't not go to my neighbor's barbecue tonight, and I told my friend, I'd pick up her kit, no, like there are things that you can say no to and it's it is such a great feeling when you just say no. Like no is a complete sentence. Oh, okay, we're going to take a quick break here.

Give a shout to our sponsors. Thank you Joanna Coles for being here and we'll be right back. I'm having another chocolate. Please do. These are from Thrive Market. Okay. Now we're back. I'm with Joanna Coles.

Thank you for being here. Chief Content Officer of Her Smuggazines and we're talking about our book Love Rules. I want to talk a little bit about the expectations around women being asked to send naked photos, naked pictures and feeling like a guy's not going to like him if they don't do that and Just the implications of that. I've got news for everybody. There is plenty of naked flesh on the web Between 30 and 60% of the web usage is spent on porn if a man needs a picture a naked picture urgently

He is not more than one click away from one. Do not, and I cannot stress this enough, do not send naked photos to someone unless you know and trust them 100%. The rise in revenge porn is horrifying. We just had a terrible story in New York of a teacher whose ex-boyfriend had plastered the school that she worked in with pictures of her naked. It sucks revenge porn, it's really difficult to get back from. It really is. And the ease with which you can send naked photos is out of all proportion to what can happen when they're misused. And so I really, really urge people

to think about it carefully. I know that probably we'll discover everybody's got naked pictures of themselves all over the web, but the misuse for them is massively on the increase. And it's so distressing for people. Oh, I want to, you're absolutely right. And I just want to say that in addition to that,

even if you feel in the moment you can trust this person we've been together, we're in love that, even if you feel in the moment you can trust this person, we've been together, we're in love. I'm sure you are in this moment, things are great, but I'm telling you, you send that photo and I know this from my guy friends. The second they get a photo, they're like, hey, look what I got, or they send it along

to someone else, we'll see it. So just know that it's going to get into someone else's hands, behind the, besides the person that you're intending to send it to. And this could really happen. People get upset, you break up with them, things happen. I'm sure the teacher at the school never thought that,

that, that, that would happen from sending a naked, of course not. You don't think so there are implications and also be the one that doesn't. Be the one that says, I can't wait for you to see me in person. I can't wait for you to see my body in person and it just have to wait for it. Because I do feel like there's some pressure from,

from people to the like, well, he won't like me, he won't go out with me. So thank you for clearing. I cannot say that enough on the show to encourage women to not do that. Well, and value yourself. Don't put a naked photo out there, though. You know, the temptation is strong.

It is, I get it. And I do feel like, yeah, there's that pressure. I get it too. It's just know your limits or figure out outfits that you look super sexy and that you feel comfortable sending that don't show the whole hurrah. Exactly. You don't need to show the whole hurrah. I love the idea of your book about clearing out the toxic people, sort of like clearing out the bad food, don't eat the bad food, and the toxic people in your life.

It could be ex-boyfriends, it could even be toxic friends. Talk about that process. Yes, and again, I think this is where keeping a journal is really helpful because it's worth jotting down the feelings you have when you have been out for drinks with people or hung out with people. And you will find there's probably one or two people that make you agitated or that make you a bit depressed. I remember when I was pregnant with my older son, there were several people who were super

negative and just left me literally feeling like I cannot see this person. And I think it was I was trying to protect my unborn child from their negative energy. And I cannot stress enough the strength you will find in keeping your own data, everybody's supposed to be a data analyst now, data analytics, all about that. Keep data on yourself in your own behaviour and you will find out who pisses you off. You will find out the people that you end up pleasing, you will find out the people that make you nervous, you'll find out the people that make you feel slightly out of control. We all have those friends right, I spent a year living with a friend who would get very

drunk and pick up men and bring them back to the apartment. And it took me a long time to figure out that actually that made me incredibly uncomfortable. I would be running around the apartment, hiding everything that I thought was valuable because I was terrified by what would happen if it went wrong, happily it never did, but she was someone that actually in the end, I probably shouldn't have been

living with. And so you want to figure out how these people impact you. And then, if you really like them, but they do have a negative side, limit the amount of time you spend with them. This is like, we all want to eat the fries or the doughnut or the really fattening true, but just limit it.

It's true, it's so true with those friends. I think that's something I've had to learn too, because you have those friends in your life, or the axes, or people that you just think, I mean, I'll say talk about friends, because I feel like a lot, this is just a great lesson for women that there's the ones who are like,

well, we've been friends in high school or college, and we had this thing together, and we have a history, but you realize as you get older, your values change, you get pregnant, you have kids, and you have this attachment, but you realize every time you're together, it just feels like they're draining the life out of you. And for women, again, I think we feel like it's not okay

to cut relationships or to alter the way they don't have to be your everything anymore. Like maybe you see them once a year, like you have fries once a year, but they don't have to be like your best friends anymore, and it's also okay to cut people. It's okay to shed people from your life that aren't serving you. Well, and I can touch with, and accepting that it's like you said with your roommate took a year, maybe you're a while to be like, something's not right here, but I just again, having women trust their guts

and saying if it's not, if it doesn't feel right, it's probably not. Absolutely right. And you want a very dire, and you want a very dire of people, right? So it may be that you are at school with this person, and maybe you were cheerleaders together and that has a value, but over time, the value fades.

So there's no reason why you absolutely can't stay in each other's lives, but you just see each other less. And you replace it with other people that give you more. And I think as you get older and you become more confident, it's okay to demand more of people that you do get a lot from and want to get a lot from and you can give back to too. And also who are the people that you feel you give to that you're not getting much back

from? And track, do you feel tired after seeing this person? Do you feel energized? Do you feel elevated? And then figure out what it is about them that leaves you feeling like that. It's so true. You got to check in. I think that we just sometimes blindly stay in things

for too long, because we don't think we can get out. But again, this is about getting in touch with your books that you get in touch with who you are, what you want, how you move through the world, what relationships are important to you and feel good to you. So I think that's a great advice. So the other thing I liked was when you talked about get relationship role models, so which relationships,

if you're thinking, because I don't know that I would have known this, like my parents are divorced, I didn't have a lot of great marriages to look at as a child, you know, when I started dating, but to really look at, even if it's a relationship on TV or you're at an uncle or your neighbors, like, what looks like a happy relationship to you? What looks like a relationship that you'd like to be in? Well, and you can also have parents that were divorced to a still good role models. I mean, they may have had a successful divorce,

they may have gone on to different relationships. I wouldn't say the divorce itself is a bad thing. True, but for me, right. For me, it wasn't a great model when I was younger. Now my mom's remarried, happy 30 years, but I'm saying at the time it was like, oh, marriage is gonna be a disaster. But it's okay to look outside.

If your parents didn't, or you don't think that that's, right, there's other places to love. Of course. And I mean, sometimes it's okay to look outside if your parents didn't or you don't think that that's right. There's other places to love. Of course. And I mean, sometimes it's the parents of friends. And again, it's about what is the energy around these people? How do you feel? I think one of the most important things is to think about how do you feel when you are with this person, when you are with these people.

Do you have an aunt and uncle that make you feel good? Do they support each other? Do they set each other up for success in a conversation? i chi'n ei gweithio. Mae'r gweithio yn ymwch chi'n ei gweithio yn ei gweithio. Mae'r gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio. Mae'r gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio. Mae'r gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gweithio yn ei gwe whatever, you were always excited to be invited. So how do you recreate that energy? What was at the heart of that energy? And when are you at your best? Are you, who are the people that you feel really confident and happy and fun around? And often they're the people that could be

your relationship role models, that they don't have to be glamorous, they don't have to be good looking, they have to be kind, they have to be nice to each other, and then ask them, you know, ask them how they got through the down times, how they got through bankruptcy or illness or the bad times, did they ever think of getting to go, how did they patch up, right? And we don't. Get curious, we don't.

We don't. We don't, you're right. Get curious about people around you and become the thing that I love about again, and we're going to go to emails, you'll help me answer some emails from listeners. But what I love about your book, it's saying like, don't assume that you are an expert in relationships, because you're not. We just assume that it should be going back

to Cinderella and magical fairy tale where relationships are easy. It works out, sex should always be great. I'm gonna work on my job, my health, my spirituality and not relationships. And what I love about this, your book is that it's really a roadmap to kind of like really focus on, it gives you great tools.

And a fun way to kind of figure out who am I, what do I want in the world. So I'm not wasting time and I'm getting curious about the world around me and I'm paying attention to my own body, my gut, how I react to things and what makes me feel good. So. And well, thank you. And also I think, think about what it would be like to date you. Right. I mean, do you listen? Do you talk incessantly about yourself? Are you interested in other people? What do you bring to the table that someone else is going to want to enjoy?

And I think that's a question that women are oddly given how much we think about servicing men. Don't actually ask. Right. You're absolutely right. Do you have something in here about when you're writing your profile, have your friends? Like, right, a few people around you ask them if they would think it. Right. Yeah, exactly. I was friends about your good qualities, because you can't always, you know, sometimes you're shy about saying them.

And if three or four people say, oh my god, you're brilliant or super funny or you're very smart, then you can, you know, wrap some lines around that so that you're presenting a good sense of yourself. I love that. There's a lot of great tips in your books. I want you to check it out. Love rules, Joanna Coles. We'll have all this information on our site.

So we're going to head into emails from our listeners. I love hearing from you. Joanna's going to introduce the email portion of the show. Okay. So now we're on to emails. And if you have a question that you'd like Emily or me to answer on the show, we love that. And we've made it super easy to ask us a question. Use the option that's easiest for you.

So you can text, save this in your phone right now. Just text, ask Emily, all one word, to 7979. You'll receive a short form where you can enter your question and contact details. If you'd like Emily to call you during a future call show, please indicate yes on the form. Talking to you about your question is one of Emily's most favorite things. I know that because she said that the first time I came in.

I love it. It's true. Okay. Include your gender, your age, where you live and how you listen to the show. Here we go. This is from Elizabeth. Thank you very much. I love the accent. I love how you did. You can't even help it. I know you love the accent. This is from Elizabeth. She's 22 in Philadelphia. Hi Emily. I'm a huge fan of your show and I love

everything about it. I'm a very sex-positive person and I'm pursuing career and women's health. So I love all the good, empowering information you're sharing with your listeners. I'm 20 years old, living and studying in Philadelphia. I'm on some dating apps, but I feel I'm not having any success. I talked to guys for a little bit, but nothing ever really comes of it. I've gotten a couple of dates, but haven't really met anyone I've connected with. I've had a few boys in my life, never a boyfriend,

which is what I'm currently looking for. How should I go about trying to meet someone? Am I lost cause? She lost cause because she's 23 and she has a lot of success with guys. So I think I hear this from a lot of young women that are like, what am I doing wrong and why haven't I figured out yet?

And you can't just say, I mean, I want to say a lot of times you're just 23, like figure it out this part of the journey. And that's so much pressure on herself. So I am going to say that to you, Elizabeth. And I would say that the process of learning to date is part of it.

And also guys are just as nervous as you are, and they don't have all the answers. What would you say to her? Like, nothing comes of it. And I'm sure you've heard this from a lot of women. They say, I'm trying, I'm doing everything. There's no guys out there. And I just think you have to, I mean, I would say,

date online, but also be out in the world. Practice talking to people. Because I think when you have a really full, rich, open life, like you talked about joining clubs or having a large community, you can't help but meet people. So if you're just relying on the dating apps and nothing else, you're studying, you're working hard,

like you probably won't find someone. Right, and I think- Right, and I think- It's a bit like having a meal and only having beans. You need to have all of it. So absolutely use dating apps. It's a numbers game, the more you use them, you will eventually be successful. But you want a big life, join things, get involved, and stop focusing on finding a boyfriend

and start focusing on having more fun. Enjoying yourself. You will put out positive energy. Of course, you're not a lost cause. start a journal so you're tracking your own behaviour and look at the kind of people that you're swiping on on dating apps, is the repartement? Are you repeating something that isn't working for you? Because the guys that you are actually going out with aren't the ones that you're having any connection with. So is there something that you're looking for that they all have in common? Sit down, go through their profiles, figure out what

it was you thought was attractive about them, which turned out not to work for you in real life. And do a bit of research, you know, do a bit of due diligence on what's happening here. And also the other thing that I think is very common and people forget about is there are probably all sorts of people hiding in plain sight. It may be a guy sitting in your lecture theatre, it could be someone you're you know, rooming with or one of their best friends. So look around at your circle and figure out the people that you like because if you go out for a drink with someone you just like, they'll like you back for the most part and like often leads to love. So I think be positive.

It sounds like actually you're in a fantastic place to find love. You're open for it. And just make your life bigger. Don't focus on finding the one. Focus on having more fun. Yeah, I think it's such great advice. Like I almost think we're with the title for the show. Like don't focus on having more fun. Because I think that we are so hard on ourselves, like maybe if she's a student in her spare time, it's like, I got a date, I got a date, but no, have fun, go out, that's fine. And if you're out with a group of friends

and you're looking around the group and there's no one there that really excites you, who cares? Give as much energy as you've got to everybody else. And they all have friends, they all have relations and cousins and brothers. You know, life is big. The world is stuffed full of people.

So you're going to find something. You will. You absolutely will. OK, this is from Emily H. 20, Wisconsin. Hi, Emily. I'm from Minneapolis going to college in Ashkosh, Wisconsin. Basically the middle of nowhere.

I have a petite frame and I'm severely lacking in the boobs butt department. Living in the cities was great because there were so many more people who were open to my body type and appearance. I have purplish hair, lots of tattoos and piercings. Young men here definitely prefer more natural appearance and a fuller body type.

However, I recently started seeing someone from school that I really vibe with and the sex is great. I can't help but still feel a little self conscious because he tends to avoid touching my boobs and butt. He also seems mostly interested in just sex whenever we hang out. We end up in his bedroom. He says I'm attractive, but his actions don't back that up.

How can I work through feeling less than adequate in an environment that makes you feel out of place? How do I know he's not just using me for sex? Thank you. For your help, M, you rock. So when I read this, I'm like, Oh, Emily, you're projecting your insecurities around who you are and your differences, which I think are beautiful. How great to stick out in this place where everyone seems the same. That that's maybe why he doesn't like you or he's not touching you bed. So these are stories that are not true. I'm going to tell you that. I don't believe that this is what everyone's not thinking

what you're thinking. I'm sure he's into you and he likes you. He's also a 20 year old boy. So it feels like he just wants sex. There's testosterone running through his body. He probably is more interested in sex than having just conversations with you right now. That is true.

So you can let him know that you are interested in more than just sex. You can let him, Aaron, wait a minute. I don't have to say that. You can say, let's go to movie night, let's go to dinner, let's go to concert. Like you could kind of take control of it if that's what you feel like. Yeah, and also if you want him to touch your boobs and your butt, then you just have to put

his hands there and you have to tell him that this is what you would like and this is what would excite you. And that would be more fun for him too, because I'm sure he doesn't want to think that he's going to bed with you and you're not having a good time. Right. And good sex is about good communication. It's often gets better and better the longer you've known somebody. It sounds like you need to do a little bit more talking

and a little more doing things together which don't just revolve around sex. Right, exactly. Great advice. I think you're so right. Communication is a lubrication. Okay, this is Brian H41 Ontario. Hi, Emily.

Thanks for always giving great advice over the years from an avid listener. I'm 41 and met a 21 year old girl at an after hours business event. We hit it off, I embarked out for drinks and we ended up having sex. The sex and conversation was great. I touched base a week later to see

if she wanted to have lunch, which she said she would love to. Well, our schedules have not connected and she's a very busy girl. She's in med school five days a week and works on the weekends. We have a few how are you texts and we're finally able to connect our schedules after two months. Well, we're supposed to be a quick breakfast that turned into a three hour breakfast with great conversation. I dropped her off. we hugged, shared a kiss goodbye.

Right after she texted me, thanks again, that was nice. I told her I had a great time and let's not go two months without seeing each other again. She said definitely, and that was two days ago. What's the next step? How long should I wait before contacting her? I think she's genuinely interested, but if she can't really find time for another two months, then I'm out. So, there's a few things going on here. I mean, you're 41. She's 21. She's in medical school. She's beyond busy. Like she's beyond busy, what you can even

imagine right now. So I feel like, I mean, this is, there's great detail in here about what, you know, you had a great time together, and it's going to two months. And I'm not sure what you're looking for exactly here, Brian,, but she just seems unavailable right now and I also think though if there's no like I don't believe in games so you're saying how long should I wait I mean text her right now ask her to have a really nice time with you I'd like to see you again let's go give her some options to go out again and see what happens. So I think that, she probably just is really busy. So now that's the case. And there's a 20 year difference. And she's going through medical school. So again, what are you looking

for right now? Yeah. And I think I think that's super sound advice, Emily. And I also think it's less about the age than it is about the stage. Your 14- I love that quote. You've got your new day. I will. I think it's she's at the beginning of her life. You've got, you can use that. I will. I think it's, she's at the beginning of her life. You've got 20 years under your belt.

I would say pick up the phone. This could be someone that you could have a daily phone call with you're checking in on her life. She might like to have you checking in and saying, hey, how's it going? Are you asleep deprived? Anything I can do, can you send us some soup? You know, if you want to stay involved with her, but you should be realistic,

she's got six more years to go at medical school probably. It's not going to ease up. And if actually what you're saying is you want a really strong girlfriend who's really gonna be available to you, then she may not be the right person right now. Right, I think that is such a good point, the stage, because you're right, things do work out with a 20 different, 20 year age difference, but yes, being in medical

school is a step and her age and where they're at. I mean, at this point in her life. And I love creating intimacy through phone call or even FaceTime right now. We have FaceTime you guys. I mean, you could be that person for her that support and talking and it could really enhance intimacy. You could see if there was a real connection. Great advice, Joanna. Thank you so much. This was a blast. Oh my. Thank you for being here. It's my pleasure. I've had the best time. I wish people could see you. I'm glad. The office. Well, they can see it a little bit. We're surrounded by feathers and whips. It's very exciting. It is a very exciting place. Very exciting indeed.

Oh, I love it. Thank you, Ringer. It's at Joanna Coles. Instagram. That's at Joanna Coles on Twitter, on Instagram. And the book, how do you find a real relationship in the digital world? In a digital world, love rules. We'll have all the links. Great. It's sold on Amazon and all good book shops. Okay, everyone. Thank you so much for listening. I love you all. Thank you to my amazing team.

Thank you to Ken Jenny, our volunteers. Shannon and Sarah, our production team. Producer Jamie, EP Lark, our volunteers, Shannon, and Sarah, our production team, producer Jamie, EP, Lark, and our engineer, and editor, Michael. Thanks everyone for subscribing to the show, reviewing it, and I love you all. Was it good for you? Email me. Feedback at sexwithamely.com. you